ArenaNet talk:Guild Wars 2 suggestions/Puppet Master

I think the idea is really really cool. A bit of a confusing read though, I wanna give you a spell check but I might be changing your ideas. I envisioned a guy with a top hat and are the puppets meant to be smaller or bigger than people? Are they even meant to be humanoid? I'm really curious. Spawnlegacy 17:34, 2 July 2008 (UTC)

Well what i was thinking with the puppet Master was that it would be a profession all about deception. Now as for how large the puppet is depends on the race it is a puppet of. Most of the puppets would be humanoid and both smaller and bigger then a human. What I was thinking was that the Puppet would not be following in full size, when your not in battle I was thinking you would carry it like the straw Effigy. but when you are in battle the puppet would fly out of your hands and get bigger(most likely a little bit bigger then a human). More or less the Puppet master is trickster and a lier. Almost everything they do is haunted house tactics.

And also if you feel like you can make this suggestion easier to understand then by all means feel free to edit it to help. If what you change is not what i'm talking about then i'll fix it to the best of my ability's. Yozuk

Removed the intro. You can add it back into the discussion page if you think it's important. Fixed some minor spelling. What I really liked your idea while I was reading it was how you made it so that monsters can sometimes drop a puppeted version of themselves. It would be cool if there was a puppet maker (NPC) where you could ask them to craft you a puppet based on a monster that you've slain. Cool idea overall :) (Terra Xin 10:29, 3 July 2008 (UTC))

Damn it Terra! You wrote yours while I was writing mine. Now I have to remember what i said..

ok it was along the lines of.. 'Nah, I'll leave it up to you. I like the idea of it growing in battle. Maybe his offhand could be a voodoo doll or wind up toy. That way he'd be able to actually release it on enemies. Or maybe have a two handed puppet for a weapon so all the damage would go through his minion. This is actually a pretty good idea coz if he had claws he'd have to enter the fray and just as likely be the target of enemies. See if I changed it, he probably wouldn't even be a puppet master anymore. More of an evil.. toy.. master..'

OMG I love the idea of animating your allies! Give them inherent and growing health degeneration with their death not resulting in dp and its an amazing idea. Tricking your allies into thinking theyre awesome but not really sounds pretty fun too xD and I disagree with the drawback. Trickery based skills would mean no spiking and he doesn't heal to a large extent and ANet pulled off making a ritualist who spawns 4 more targets from nowhere and hits for 150 damage every 4 seconds for 5 energy work so why not this? I think it could be balanced pretty easily. FACE IT ALREADY, ITS BRILLIANT! Spawnlegacy 10:42, 3 July 2008 (UTC)

Ally animation? That's really creepy, which would suit the profession greatly. A voodoo doll would be a cool idea for an offhand. :) (Terra Xin 23:52, 3 July 2008 (UTC))

I got another idea (which is probably your idea just me acting imaginative) that could work. Since you're suggesting the puppet would be the biggest source of damage, the puppet could be the weapon. Like, marrionettes have the cross that you control them with. You run around with this and the puppet dangling from it then when you hit the space bar, while your target's within earshot, the puppet will drop off his strings and rush in while you pull one stick from the other for dual wand pwnage. Or much less imaginatively have it just be one handed and shoot fireballs from the end. In any case, he'll shrink and scuttle back to his weapon when he's finished crushing everything with his laughably sized fists. He could also do other things like collect items for you when you're in earshot but only while he's small so it'll be really cute. In the same way that a warrior can't use axe skills without an axe, you can't use pulling strings without first having the strings. I reckon the puppet's damage and size with enemies in earshot should be related to the attributes so people can choose which skin they like best without having to worry too much about effectiveness. Once again I love this idea. It gets me thinking. Ima nurture it as my own. Spawnlegacy 05:13, 4 July 2008 (UTC)

It... sounds OK, I suppose. But it does tend to sound like the idea was spawned from the mind of a Naruto fanboy. Look up Kankurou (spelling?) or Sasori from Naruto if you have no idea what I'm talking about. Gogo Puppet no Jutsu? ^<__<^;; Nooot sure if the creator of Naruto (Kishimoto something-or-other, I think) would sue over somebody stealing his idea and/or if he'd even care. (by the way, the "animating your allies" thing is also very Naruto Puppet no Jutsu-ish, as some of the Puppet Masters from the series turned dead people around them into puppets and such) --Dragon nataku 18:48, 7 July 2008 (UTC)

For the last time this idea is not stolen from Naruto. The idea of a Puppet Master aka Puppeteer has been around long before Naruto was a twinkle in that guys eye. Also A Puppet Master has been a monster boss in a lot of NES games. And a Puppeteer is a part of Japanese superstition. i don't know all the facts of the Puppet Master, but I did do some research on them before i added this suggestion.

Also The Puppet would be a 2 handed weapon. The reason i say this is because it would be cheap if you could have a spear in one hand and a Puppet as a off hand with claw mastery would be way to cheep. And the idea is that the Puppet Master is focusing mostly on the combat of his Puppet. PS Thanks for the support on my idea and I hope i can get more support for this idea.Yozuk

This is a fcking good idea!!! (Gen Winter)

I've been thinking if it's gonna be prof/prof and the puppet master's primary is what powers the puppet's damage skills, puppet master secondaries won't be able to use a puppet. And that's just wrong >.< You could - obviously your idea but this is a problem - combine smoke and mirrors and masking the truth and add another attribute.. wait you only have four attributes.. just add another one. Something along the lines of spirit envoy.. I'm thinking like he's the conduit between the spirit in the puppet and the real world so he can take some of the damage right. Well there you go. Keep that ability and the ability to control the puppet seperate and you have a winner. What's a possessed object called anyway? That's what I'm thinking of when I say spirit. We already got spirits so that's a bad name. Spawnlegacy 09:01, 13 July 2008 (UTC)

Well I'm glad you like the Puppet Master idea. But the reason I Made it so that the Puppet was almost useless to other professions was to prevent Professions like a warrior or assassin from getting a Super amount of damage reduction. Think About it. If A warrior got a Puppet then the puppet and the warrior could have 131 armor agaist physical, 101 against other and a damage reduction of somthing like 12%. And the warrior would just have to use strong adrenalin skill and boom instant unbalance. And the assassin is a strong killer with out the aid of a puppet killing in its place. And also if every one could us a puppet the Puppet Master them selves would be useless. The idea was to give other class some thing from using the Puppet Master as a secondary with out taking that Large of a passive damage reduction. But i could modify it a little bit. But you will have to give me some time to think of a good way to balance it out.Yozuk

I feel like my idea was stolen. (fyi, this is a joke post I am not serious; just couldn't resist lol) --Shadowphoenix 05:09, 14 July 2008 (UTC)

Hmmmmmmmmm still pretty pitiful to see a puppet master without a puppet.. Wait! You didn't understand man. Have the weapon required for pulling strings skills be a puppet but keep that attribute seperate from the primary attribute that controls the damage reduction and raises the armor and stuff. So the warrior can use a puppet but he doesnt get an armor buff or damage sharing and he can't use a melee weapon while the puppet's out. I'm like bombarding you with ideas.. The claws could have the puppet dangling off them by strings and when it drops off to go fight that could be the weapon. Far less lame than a cross that shoots fireballs. So when the puppet dies pulling strings skills are disabled and maybe the skills of the new attribute but the claw mastery skills are still charged.. I dunno. Spawnlegacy 07:46, 14 July 2008 (UTC)

I'm sorry i'm still thinking of a way to balance it. so far i've come with nothing. and the Puppet dying disables all your skills, just like if your pet died. But when your puppet dies you can't do anything. I'm still working it out. Its not an easy profession to balance out. But balancing it out will be worth it.Yozuk

As cool as it sounds, the balancing and maintainment of this profession would be a nightmare! I can so see something like this turning into the new 55 monk or even worse still Ursan!!!

Don't be so sure of that. I mean Anet has managed to balance the MMORPG Impossible. Yes a 55 is scary and yes Ursan is Way to over powered. But a 55 can be killed with one Vampiric skill, health degeneration, Assault Enchantments, and most other enchantment removal skills. Also I'm trying my hardest to make sure the Puppet Master is not over powered. Example: you could kill a Puppet master with common melee shutdown because of its melee attacking puppet. I'm going to add more about the Puppet Masters strengths and weaknesses in a moment. Yozuk

Wow I had no idea that FFXI had a Puppet Master profession. I guess it because I'm so busy playing Guild Wars I never bothered to look in to it. Ah well I like the name Puppeteer better any way.Yozuk

Someithng i dont understand....... i envisioned a puppet master as well, but with much different ideas. I think the puppets should not be a weapon. The Strings should be the weapon, and the puppets are summoned, creating different puppets with different effects. If the puppet is your weapon, how would the puppet die? would the weapon dissapear? That part is a little confusing to me. --The preceding unsigned comment was added by User:67.193.205.157 (talk).

The puppet acts as an extention as oneself in every factor except the facts that it has it's own health, armor, and weapons. This is how I understand it, anyways. --Elven Chaos 23:05, 27 July 2008 (UTC)

As Elven Chaos said The Puppet is an Extension of the Master. But I can understand If its confusing. It took me a while to work out how they would work and be different.--Yozuk 04:14, 28 July 2008 (UTC)

Similarities to existing professions

Think this is an important issue in every idea. Puppets of course sound like fun, but are they different enough compared to pets? Healing, motivation, trickery (mesmer) aren't new either - of course the way it is done can be fun, but how much will the class differ from pet-ranger/mesmer/paragon in actual use other than the animations? --Tenshi Samshel 14:29, 18 July 2008 (UTC)

Well as for the difference from those professions and the Puppet Master they have many. The Puppet in comparison to a pet is allot more then you think. A pet can keep fighting if its master dies. A puppet can't. A pet attacks with its master. A puppet can't, all of the actions of the puppet are being controlled thus preventing the master from attacking. A pet is affected by all conditions and has no extended time on burning. A puppet it not affected by Bleeding, poison, disease, blind or dazed but has double duration from burning. A pet can't equipped weapons. A puppet can equipped weapons, focuses and shields. Pet attacks just add to there next attack. A Puppet since it dose not use a special type of skill just for them, so there attack can be disabled or interrupted by attacking the Puppet or the master. As for the mesmer, the mesmer alters the foes perception of there actions making them hesitate and over think. The Puppet Master Makes them think they are shrinking, getting stronger or even dead to remove them from combat for a short time. But these effects always have drawbacks to them. Unlike Mesmers Hexing the Puppet Masters Hexing Literally dose nothing as in changing the foes energy, health regeneration, movement, damage, and others. What it will do is make the foe think he/she is suffering from conditions, hexes, or even death. But because its all smoke and mirrors it can be easily seen through. Like a magic trick it diverts your attention so they can set up something dastardly. Although the Puppet Master can deal damage, they can only deal damage through there claw mastery. The Mesmer can damage deal with Illusion and Domination. Now for the last but not least. The Paragons Motivation will not get your allies killed. Yes The Puppet Masters Masking the truth can kill your allies. Because Every thing the Puppet Master dose is a trick there effects are nothing more then telling there allies "Your leg is fine you can run!" Although they do have healing skills most of them if not all will not have lasting effects. These fact make the Puppet Master a force to be cautions about, but at the same time if you can see through there tricks there nothing more then a Puppeteer Pulling your strings.=D

Dose this help?Yozuk

Assisting Ideas?

I thought Puppets(Specific Puppets) would take a place on your skill bar. for example...

Millidia- Elite Puppet. Millidia has 60 armor, attacks 20% faster than normal, and deals +5...10..15 damage. Milidia moves by shadow stepping 25' feet instead of walking.( The shadow stepping may sound imba, but with the 3/4 second aftercast, it limits her movement and chase abilities. anyone w/ an IMS can get away easily.) The intention w/ Millidia here is A puppet-like girl covered in blades. Obviously offensive.

Riven- Elite Puppet. Your base armor increases by 15. Riven has 90 base armor. He attacks 15% slower than a normal puppet, but his skills effects (positive and negative) are increased by 10...24...35%. (Basically a defensive and effects type. the choice if you want to use skills over damage.) Riven is a Defensive type of puppet with the appearance of a suit of armor.

Examples?-

Phill Gaston 10:06, 3 August 2008 (UTC)

Are you saying summon a puppet rather then always having one out? Because if you are that is not the point of the Puppet Master, Its not a Summoner or a Puppetmancer. But if your saying the Puppet should be able to transform or something then that's an Idea. But seriously the Puppet Master is not supposed to be like a Summoner profession or even any normal caster profession, its supposed to be an unusual profession with a bizarre way of fighting. I'm not making a class that can be shoved in to any normal category, I'm trying to make a fun and interesting profession that will make the battle field feel uneasy.--Yozuk 11:03, 3 August 2008 (UTC)

Comments go in discussion

Please people don't add you comment about whether or not this is a good idea in the discussion section of this suggestion. PS I don't watch or even like naruto.--Yozuk 02:49, 16 August 2008 (UTC)

Opinions by Others

I think that this class is very strange and unique, but that might make this class more hard to understand by other people, especially for young kids that are like 6, I don't know who let them play don't ask me. Sometimes, if you make a profession too complicated, people just don't want to spend time to figure stuff out, and that might be their fault if it turns to become a great class. An example would be the Assassin, a lot of people complained about it being underpowered but they just don't take time to learn how to utilize it, and the Assassin turned out to be one of the coolest class ever. --PCGamer07 19:55, 16 August 2008 (UTC)

I'm not concerned with 6 year old's understanding the Puppet Master seeing as they will only be interested in is what looks cool and not whats practical. The Puppet Master would actually be very easy to use because of its ability's in both melee and magic. But at the same time it would take a bit of work to balance there ability's to there full extent would take skill.--Yozuk 19:53, 17 August 2008 (UTC)

Rather than claws

Why not strings? I just dont see claws ( a close combat weapon) as being thematically appropriate for a puppet master. Also, why not have puppets ONLY usable with strings equipped. Otherwise I just see some tricked out warrior/puppetmaster dealing HUGE combined damage from their attacks and the puppets. Allow the strings to be used as weapons of course, whipping their enemies.

Also, whilst I like the idea of customizing your puppet, I see it becoming an issue with people simply equipping them all the same. As soon as someone figures out a good puppet weapon/armor combo we would end up seeing about 3 or 4 different puppets. Why not have a few bases (wooden, marble, jade...) with a few costumes/masks that affect appearance only (no armor rating). Change the current attribute of Pulling Strings to your ability to use strings as well as the helath of the puppet. While I admit the shared damge idea makes sense, I just dont like it. And with weapons...have them be puppet appropriate. I just cant see a puppet moving correctly to do much real damage with a sword. Now I DEFINITELY see claws as an option for puppets, as well as things like giant wheels, whips...anything that could be used in a fairly acrobatic style with lots of twirls and puppety flexibility. As far as damage dealt by these weapons, perhaps have it based off the strings? Like if your strings deal 5-6 damage(for simplicities sake I'll use small numbers) then no matter what your puppet has equipped it deals oh, 10-12 damage. Just a thought. --24.0.166.125 04:24, 17 September 2008 (UTC)

the claws are for the puppet to use not the master. and having strings might not make seance because the strings would be made of magic. But as for your other suggestions I will respond to them as soon as I have some time to think.--Yozuk 16:37, 19 September 2008 (UTC)