ArenaNet talk:Skill feedback/Ranger/Quick Shot

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Yeah, sure. Go ahead. And btw - what is dR? File:Nuclear7 sig image2.jpg nuke7 File:Nuclear7 sig image2.jpg 12:12, 4 April 2008 (UTC)

Not own dR? Raise recharge to 50--The Gates Assassin 15:44, 5 April 2008 (UTC)

own a dSIN, more effective, and better enery managment, anyways although it would be nice to have it unblockable, and move a bit faster, not really need, if you aganist a blocking enemy, just fire called shot, quick shot just meant to be spammable, if it was unblockable, if would be on the border line of OB. Metal Sazz 8:51, 28 April 2008 (UTC)

Nahhh... Still a dps elite on a ranger. I think an unblockable aspect would be cute to play with. -- NUKLEAR IIV 18:26, 28 April 2008 (UTC)

If you make this unblockable, you'll be seeing critical sin's running this.~>Sins WDB 13:27, 6 May 2008 (UTC)

And sins with bows, especially ones who sacrifice elite for damage, are broken, amirite? -- NUKLEAR IIV 18:06, 6 May 2008 (UTC)

If you don't mind Quick Shot pulling 60+ from crits on 60 AL and interrupting, while being unblockable then no it's not OP.~>Sins WDB 19:23, 6 May 2008 (UTC)

And that's worse than magebane, how, exactly? Magebane disables. Magebane rangers use 1 elite to accomplish what an assasin would in 3 skills. All that would be a stupid gimmick, nothing else. -- NUKLEAR IIV 20:08, 6 May 2008 (UTC)

/agree with Nuklear. A. von Rin 14:50, 7 May 2008 (UTC)

Alrighty, but 3 skills for a potential unblockable interrupt every 1 second and higher dps than a ranger just seems OP to me. Quickshot already condenses favorable winds and a 1 second activation time skill. I just dont see a reason to make favorable winds, a cancel bow attack, AND seeking arrows 1 skill with a 1 second recharge for 5 energy. If it couldn't be used in combination with other skills there'd be no problem, but it can be.~>Sins WDB 19:06, 7 May 2008 (UTC)

Here are a few skills you should look at, mate: Practiced stance, flurry, choking gas, and a recurve bow. That's way more powerful that QS, cause it goes through blind as well. -- NUKLEAR IIV 14:39, 8 May 2008 (UTC)

heres the kicker tho, it not link to any attribute, meaning a sin can just put it in, have disrupting accuracy, an anti blind, (antidote signet work very well with this), MoW, Crit eye, crit def,and only put points into only bow, critical strike and shadow for healing, and you got a unblockable sin that can pump off fast repeating interrupts with a high survival. that would be fun to play with, but i hate to be the monk facing it. --Metal Sazz 02:38, 20 May 2008 (UTC)

Oh, so you use a mediocre char to apply frequent, ill timed interrupts without putting points into marksmanship? You know, the attrib that ups your chance of getting a crit hit? You also propose to take antidote signet? Oh, here is the best bit: WE ALREADY HAVE THAT BUILD. Its called CG/PStance flurry. GO check it out. -- NUKLEAR IIV 14:07, 20 May 2008 (UTC)

im sry did i not say i would put points into bows, oh wait i did, read next time plz, and i don't really care about CG/Pstance and furry, it not what we are talking about, plz stay on topic, which is having an unblocking quick cast/recharge/flight time bow attack would be OP, when played with a Dsin, even if its not a dsin playing it, the idea altogether would be OP imo.--Metal Sazz 16:45, 20 May 2008 (UTC)

This IS what we are talking about. CG+Flurry interrupts on every hit, and the foes adjacent. It is immune to blind also. ~~ frvwfr2 (talk · contributions) 22:34, 20 May 2008 (UTC)

and im talking about, a fast interrupt that interrupt everything, not just spell, with every crit, which is pretty high, and doesn't have to worry about blind that much either. actually...now that i think about it...WE TALKING ABOUT THE SAME THING, an unconditional fast flight time quick recharge inturrupting build that will get more powerful if Quick shot gets buff to the way it was mention, doesn't really matter how it's used, if it can, it will.--Metal Sazz 23:03, 20 May 2008 (UTC)

Tbh though, that doesnt really matter. Why don't people run the current assa interrupters? Because a BSurge outdoes it for shutting down melee, and untimed attacks dont help much. ~~ frvwfr2 (talk · contributions) 13:41, 21 May 2008 (UTC)

Metal, did you get owned by a CG ranger? I'm sorry, but you fail. The proposed change is weaker than CG, and yet... CG is bad. What else is there to say? -- NUKLEAR IIV 14:09, 21 May 2008 (UTC)

when did this talk go from how would putting unblocking ability on quick shot be OP to getting own by CG ranger, even if the concept is of Dsin is weaker then CG ranger, why would this matter, the statement still stands that if you would buff this skill to the the way it was mention, having a spamable skill with fast cast, fast flight, being able to bybass block would be OP, and none have giving a reason on why this wouldn't, i was only giving a example on how this would be use, if there are better ways fine, but that not whats the soul reason of this talk --Metal Sazz 15:30, 21 May 2008 (UTC)

The reason the proposed buff would not be broken is because we already have CG, which is unblockable, takes 3 slots one elite, has an IAS unlike the proposed "op" buff, and, oh, also ignores blind. The proposed buff is okay because the OP build you seem to whine about is weaker than CG, which is not OP. 2+2. -- NUKLEAR IIV 15:36, 21 May 2008 (UTC)

just because you say it weaker, doesn't mean it won't still be used.--Metal Sazz 16:03, 21 May 2008 (UTC)

"just because you say it weaker, doesn't mean it won't still be used." Yeah, flare spammers are also broken, no? Look, sazz, you have absolutely no idea what goes on here. These pages are solely dedicated for the disscussion of skill balance changes. We don't give a rats ass about whether or not a shitty, worthless gimmick, especially when a superior gimmick exists, is used. Shitty gimmicks are shitty and they stay in RA, where the shitty gameplay exists for a reason. Please don't go QQing and arguing for a lost cause just because you want to participate. I assure you that you're not helping. -- NUKLEAR IIV 16:35, 21 May 2008 (UTC)

and tbh i wish you stop talking like you own this page, nothing completely useless when it has it's uses, there are advantages for dsin . i just don't see a reason for this buff when there is nothing wrong with it in the first place imo, it not really needed and this skill has use with out it --Metal Sazz 16:47, 21 May 2008 (UTC)

Dsins are utter shit. The buff is proposed to make this particular skill less shitty. Dsin has no use. It is a shitty gimmick, and anyone who runs it should either feel bad or die in puddle, or maybe a combination of both. -- NUKLEAR IIV 21:35, 21 May 2008 (UTC)

i don't think is a bad build imo, it will keep anyone busy for a awhile, E-management is good, damage is better then some interrupts build, and survival rate is high, and before you go saying this build is shit, try backing it up with actually facts instead of your normal "It is a shitty gimmick comments.--Metal Sazz 00:16, 22 May 2008 (UTC)

But... it is a shitty gimmick. Ask anyone, if youı feel my judgment to be flawed. Any other ranger with Shot and savage does so much better, has so much better pressure, and, with BA, much better damage. Why run a shitty gimmick when there are so much superior builds? -- NUKLEAR IIV 11:20, 23 May 2008 (UTC)

doesn't the fact that you can refire Qshot faster then Dshot and Sshot mean anything. plus Qshot hurts more when you get interrupted with a dsin adding more pressure, and most ranger probable haven't played Dsins, it's not really meta atm, not because it a shitty gimmick, which it not. because people don't know it worth.--Metal Sazz 19:20, 23 May 2008 (UTC)

No, it's not meta because it's bad compared to a normal Cripshot/BA/Magebane Ranger. The reason it's bad is because it can't interrupt reliably. Spamming random interrupts is bad, because it means that, more often than not, when you want an interrupt, you won't get it, and you will get it when you don't need it. It also can't gank. Even a Cripshot or Magebane can gank by degening NPCs to death with Poison. It also has little survivability due to not being able to spec very much in other attributes besides Crit Strikes and Marksmanship in order to benefit most from critical hits. Any way you slice it, it's just a bad build compared to the average ranger. 76.89.81.150 21:57, 23 May 2008 (UTC)

nah i think you can spec some point in to Wilderness surival or shadow arts for surviving and still be effective, this build works surprisingly well, at 13 CS and 12 bow, along with critical strike skill like MoW and crit eye, and quick firing bow attacks, it a fun build to use in pve , CM and AB, and that why i play, just for the fun of it. you don't like this build fine, im not asking you to play it, but i would ask for alittle respect for a something that does get used and other people that use it.--Metal Sazz 23:37, 23 May 2008 (UTC)

"a fun build to use in pve , CM and AB, and that why i play" Awww, why didn't you say so? That pretty much explains... everything. It is a shitty build, to be used in low lvl pvp. If it had any sort of worth, it would be used elsewhere. End of discussion. -- NUKLEAR IIV 15:31, 24 May 2008 (UTC)

wow you sort of come off as a bit of an elitist nuke imo, seriously why would it matter on where it played, this build could have some potential uses in the high end pvp and pve play. agree that this buff wouldn't change much, but that doesn't mean you can be the way you are, grow up.--205.211.50.10 13:05, 26 May 2008 (UTC)

An elitist would've called you all idiots and that would be that. Me, I just ran out of patience in on the last bit. -- NUKLEAR IIV 14:00, 26 May 2008 (UTC)

Hey all it is, is i believe one thing and you believe the other. but what your doing is putting me and the way i play down just because i don't do the norm or agree with your opinion. ok so a buff to this wouldn't be as great as let say a buff to some of the skills out there, but i just don't feel a buff to this skill is needed, imo. and really, is that wrong to think that.....honestly let just forget about this and move on, nuff said about it.--Metal Sazz 15:49, 26 May 2008 (UTC)

Frvwfr2's

Meh, not sure how balanced it is, but could help counter blind bots, due to enchant removal when it misses due to blind. Should I make it 1/2 cast? ~~ frvwfr2 (talk · contributions) 21:07, 12 May 2008 (UTC)

Self blind may be an issue, with draw and all that jazz. Enchant removal with 1 reload, anyone? -- NUKLEAR IIV 13:23, 13 May 2008 (UTC)

It has a 7 recharge. 1s Cast, to keep w/ the idea of "Quick" Shot. ~~ frvwfr2 (talk)

I don't see why if it misses should it remove an enchantment. By the way, frvwfr, your sig is missing another </small> tag and a closing one of ). Made my text all small. --People of Antioch 15:34, 24 May 2008 (UTC)

Oh it does (seems to be fine to me...)? And if it wasn't if it misses, then it would be better than almost everything. Maybe make it if it HITS it would remove an enchantment. ~~ frvwfr2 (talk · contributions) 02:52, 25 May 2008 (UTC)

Eh, I would rather it remove a Stance than anything. I would love to see Rangers pinging each other with this. --People of Antioch 14:15, 25 May 2008 (UTC)

That would be interesting... Would the 7 second recharge still be fine? ~~ frvwfr2 (talk · contributions) 16:33, 25 May 2008 (UTC)

Or make it an interrupt, but if you interrupt a skill, that foe loses an enchantment... Up cost to 10e at that point, as you can get rid of Savage Shot... ~~ frvwfr2 (talk · contributions) 16:33, 25 May 2008 (UTC)

WeHeartKaramari's Disscussion:

"what about warriors? They give out moderate damage, don't interrupt, all they're good for is tanking" Be quiet. You obviously have never played PvP before. -- NUKLEAR IIV 20:00, 20 June 2008 (UTC)

I play AB, RA, and PvE. If that's not "real" PvP, then no I haven't played PvP before. I don't play these aspects of the game because when it comes to the high forms of PvP like Hero's Ascent or GvG because when a game stops being fun and starts becoming worrying or pressuring, it's not really a game for me anymore. I'm not saying I like doing easy things, that's not the case either. I just don't like having a whole team on your back about how you use your skills and function with the others. In GvG, I believe you lose reputation for losing a match? That just seems ridiculous to me. This is how I have fun with the game, whatever you do is up to you. - WeHeartKatamari File:Image-User WeHeartKatamari sig.jpg 19:11, 24 June 2008 (UTC)

WeHeartKatamari's Issue

Issue

Sick and tired of people calling this a weak elite. Does not need a buff!

Solution

I've used this on many occasions in AB, RA, and PvE and it kills things faster then any other ranger build I've seen. With 13 Marksmanship and Expertise, and 6 Fire Magic and Wilderness Survival, your skills cost close to nothing and are still powerful enough to do major damage. To anyone wanting a buff to this elite, try this build out in PvP and you'll see why it's fine the way it is.

No, its a poor elite that allows for no utility. And that bar has no interupt or dshot. --Lann 16:12, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

It doesn't have a self heal or condition removal either.

Haha, no condition removal FTL. In Alliance Battles I would use Throw Dirt and give the user of this build 13 seconds to reflect on a better build.

That build is trash, I just tested the build and it runs out of energy + does crap for damage. And the 2 previous people pointed out already that it has no interrupt, no dshot, no self heal, and no condition removing.

Why are you using hunter's shot? Why not something like screaming shot (its req for bleeding is easier to achieve)?

The whole point of that build is to quickly get a foe to half health with the one second activation timed attack skills. Once there, you can spam Needling Shot and Quick Shot one after the other, causing a great amount of DPS and pressure. I don't use Screaming Shot because the bleeding's not really the whole point of bringing the skill, it's the quick activation time and skill +damage. - WeHeartKatamari File:Image-User WeHeartKatamari sig.jpg 21:07, 19 June 2008 (UTC)

Guys, please do this discussion on the talkpage! and that's a horrible bar with no dshot or savage, it doesn't matter whether or not a skill is fine in AB -- NUKLEAR IIV 21:43, 19 June 2008 (UTC)

"No DShot?!?! WTFOMGBBQ!!! /ragequit" This is what really discourages me about ranger users, if there's no interrupt, they're considered useless...what about warriors? They give out moderate damage, don't interrupt, all they're good for is tanking. Rangers have insane blocking skills and amazing armor against elementalists! They can take quite a beating, just like warriors. And this build deals way more damage than any warrior I've seen. And I just said I use this in AB, doesn't mean it's the only thing it's good for. Obviously none of you have tried this... - WeHeartKatamari File:Image-User WeHeartKatamari sig.jpg 15:49, 20 June 2008 (UTC)

Izzy even said so. Rangers are meant for pressure and interupt. Plus a bar solely devoted to damage and no utility at all is bad. --Lann 20:18, 21 June 2008 (UTC)

If interrupts are your oxygen, then why complain about this...add an interrupt, geniuses! It doesn't take much thinking to figure that one out. - WeHeartKatamari File:Image-User WeHeartKatamari sig.jpg 23:27, 22 June 2008 (UTC)

Have you ever even played this game? Spammable interrupts would be really really bad! And stating this skill is ok, but say: "then add interrupt", is just making me sad about your skill... :( - A. von Rin 12:29, 23 June 2008 (UTC)

I HATE warriors, but you don't see me going on every warrior page/build/whatever bashing them. If you don't like this build, either comment constructively or move on. Did I somehow directly hurt or pain you in any way? I enjoy this build, and it's fun to play. So sue me...you guys must be forgetting what a game is. "a competitive activity involving skill, chance, or endurance on the part of two or more persons who play according to a set of rules, usually for their own amusement or for that of spectators." What's that word?? Amusement? Oh, that's right. While games may be even more fun on the winning team to most people, I enjoy the game either way. Losing or not. I am pretty bad at the game, I haven't been playing long. But so far, I've found a nice guild that likes playing with people for fun, not for being 1337 omghaxors. You guys can keep doing whatever it is you like to do, but this is my fun. /Ragequit. xD - WeHeartKatamari File:Image-User WeHeartKatamari sig.jpg 18:59, 24 June 2008 (UTC)

Look, we're not trying to bash you in, but you have to understand that this is not a place to comment on how you're having fun from the game. Now, don't get me wrong, it's great that you're enjoying it, but the topic here is whether or not this skill is underpowered. And, mate, it really is. Look from a "balancer" perspective, and you'll see that I can easily our-do the DPS on that build with a D-Slash warrior. So, it is bad skill. Therefore, in order to become viable in any sort of serious play, it needs buffed.

Personally, I regularly play trappers in AB just to annoy people and enjoy it. That's my "thing". But I would never go at a length to say that traps are balanced in GvG or HA. If you're enjoying the game, good for you, but this is not place to talk about it. -- NUKLEAR IIV 19:21, 24 June 2008 (UTC)

I'm confused if that was both NuclearVII, but in any case, yes I suppose it can be underpowered most of the time. I was just simply trying to express that not everyone on GW thinks it is underpowered. Just re-read what A. von Rin said as well, and I didn't mean add an interrupt to the skill, I meant to that build, People kept saying how horrible it was because it had no interrupt. - WeHeartKatamari File:Image-User WeHeartKatamari sig.jpg 19:32, 24 June 2008 (UTC)

How horrible the build is because it had no interupt. --Lann 05:39, 2 July 2008 (UTC)

Ezekial's disscussion

That's horribly outclassed by magebane. -- NUKLEAR IIV 22:55, 30 July 2008 (UTC)

Magebane is its own issue. Disregarding Magebane, at least changing the skill to something more useful would be a start. --Ezekial Riddle 00:19, 31 July 2008 (UTC)

The point is nobody would use your version as long as magebane exists. -- NUKLEAR IIV 13:48, 31 July 2008 (UTC)

Yeah, but I figured if it was too close to the current Magebane, this skill would be god-awful OP.

10 ¼ 10 sound better for my proposition?

Re: Frvwfr2's Issue -- 14:18, 9 May 2008 (UTC)

Re:Suggestion 1 and 3: Enchantment removal isn't ranger's business. There is and there will be no skill of rangers, that can remove enchantments. Nature's Renewal and Tranquility are currently the only ranger skills, that lower the effectiveness of enchanments.

Re:Suggestion 2: Again, stance removal isn't ranger's business either. The only skills, that can remove stances directly on foes are those with the "Wild"-prefix: Wild Blow, Wild Strike, Wild Throw. --Igis 17:02, 13 November 2008 (UTC)

IMO, every martial profession should have enchant removal and stance removal. If they did, we would have more skill and less Build Wars. Some of them can be better at enchant/stance removal than others.

A slightly different idea.

Most of the suggestions seems to be of the idea that this skill is far underpowered. Ironically quickshot builds can be some of the most consistent damage of all ranger damage builds. Even so, this skill is underpowered in most situations and I agree that it needs a radical change. The proposed changes do nothing to fit in with the skill's name. The last thing we need is yet another interupt. Initially I agreed that enchant and stance removal are outside of the ranger job decription, but I think this could be a very interesting skill to mess with those jobs. Heres my suggestion. Quick shot (PVP) - 5e, 1 second cast, 5 second recharge. Bow Attack. This arrow moves three times normal speed, and cannot miss or be blocked. If Quick Shot hits, all enchantments or stances cast on struck foe within the last 2 seconds are removed. If the struck foe was not under the effect of an enchantment or stance, quick shot is disabled for 30 seconds. (1 second aftercast to prevent spike damage) Its a bit unconventional, but I think this fits in with the idea of having a skill based on attack speed but not spam. In functionality, this ends up being an after the fact interupt for low cast time skills that punishes the user if its misused. I would be a bit worried about this on a spike, but I think a 30 second down time if its inneffective is pretty good punishment for bad play. The cast time and conditional time leave a little less than a second to react to enchantments or stances being activated. Kumlekar 07:23, 25 May 2009 (UTC)