Feedback talk:User/Dark Morphon/Foul Feast

absolutely must stay in soul reaping to prevent other classes from using it Talamare 11:30, 23 September 2009 (UTC)

I expected that answer. See it like this, it has 5 recharge while Draw Conditions has two. Both can be used by other classes, yet no-one has ever complained about Draw Conditions for that reason. Dark Morphon 11:35, 23 September 2009 (UTC)

Because it doesn't give energy? King Neoterikos 11:37, 23 September 2009 (UTC)

So what? It has 5 recharge as opposed to two recharge on Draw. Dark Morphon 11:39, 23 September 2009 (UTC)

because it gives energy Talamare 11:41, 23 September 2009 (UTC)

Why is that a problem? It requires a lot of investment. Dark Morphon 11:43, 23 September 2009 (UTC)

3 isnt a lot Talamare 11:44, 23 September 2009 (UTC)

It's more than double the recharge. Dark Morphon 11:47, 23 September 2009 (UTC)

"because it gives energy" Talamare 11:48, 23 September 2009 (UTC)

I suppose you give up the defensive skills that /W or /A give you if you choose to go /N... King Neoterikos 11:54, 23 September 2009 (UTC)

Repeating your same argument over and over again won't change the fact that both "draw" skills have their advantages and disadvantages and the fact that Foul Feast's energy gain only starts to get useful at 8 points investment which is quite a lot. Dark Morphon 12:00, 23 September 2009 (UTC)

If you move it to Blood Magic but link the Energy gain to Soul Reaping (ei: You gain 1 Energy for every 3 ranks of Soul Reaping per condition transferred.). You have 9 Soul Reaping: One condition = 3 Energy. Two = Six. etc etc. That way it'd still only be worth it on primary Necromancers and could be moved to Blood. Right? Also, disclaimer. The numbers I used in the example aren't suggestions, just hypothetical. Bathory talk 00:02, 24 September 2009 (UTC)

Yes, that would be an easy solution if I'd consider the energy gain a problem. As it stands, I do not believe it is. Dark Morphon 12:04, 24 September 2009 (UTC)

so you want to move attunements into energy storage "because it gives energy" , but this is fine? Talamare 12:32, 24 September 2009 (UTC)

Quite a difference, this skill alone won't provide Mesmers with enough energy to do the Necromancer role like Attunements do. Dark Morphon 13:14, 24 September 2009 (UTC)

Uh, I'm reminded of a certain Me/N Angorodon's Gaze build that was pretty damn annoying on the release of EotN. Bathory talk 13:25, 24 September 2009 (UTC)

What has that to do with anything? Angorodon's Gaze was so good because it was a very high life steal that returned energy. This is a defensive skill that returns energy. That's something completely different. Dark Morphon 13:29, 24 September 2009 (UTC)

Angorodon's Gaze is defensive -Talamare- feedback 13:36, 24 September 2009 (UTC)

But would work pretty well with any X/N just as it would N/X. Gaining Health for X/Ns doesn't bother me, the Energy sort of does. Anyone could split /N, put about 8 in Blood and suddenly be great at condition removal. Rt/Ns with Resilient was Xiko. Mesmers with FC Blood spells. Bathory talk 13:42, 24 September 2009 (UTC)

Hmm, I guess you're right. Too much of a risk. I'm going to bind the energy gain to Soul Reaping. Dark Morphon 07:22, 25 September 2009 (UTC)

I like this suggestion now. The synergy between this current skill and Curses makes it kind of futile to use Blood and Death Magic in settings where Curses thrives anyway. I've also always wanted to see Blood Magic be used in a balanced team build, but currently that's too hard to do. Bathory talk 01:25, 26 September 2009 (UTC)

Necromancers don't need more energy gain, thank you very much. And FYI, this sees play. Now, you made it so that people lost energy... -- NUKLEAR IIV 18:55, 4 October 2009 (UTC)

Correct me if I'm wrong Morphon but this wasn't meant to be a buff. This was meant to remove the over-powering synergy this skill has with Curses, as well as introduce a non-gimmick position for Blood Magic in balanced teams. By making it blood it's still possible for Curses necromancers to use it, but to a lesser effect. Blood Magic can offer some things to a balance team beyond direct life stealing, such as adrenaline buffs, spell failure and Blood is Power power. Morphon has other suggestions for Blood Magic that try to steer it away from gimmicky caster spikes and in to a balanced team setting. Bathory talk 21:28, 4 October 2009 (UTC)

What it is meant for is irrelavent. This is a buff, very minor nerf, because energy gain is about the most awesome thing any skill can do. The reason people are using this simply because of that. Remove energy gain, and then boost health gain to 100 for all I care. This is broken, and it's the energy gain that makes it so. -- NUKLEAR IIV 15:28, 5 October 2009 (UTC)

Yeah, I see where you're coming from. Removing the energy altogether. Dark Morphon 16:25, 5 October 2009 (UTC)

Atta boy (j/k). Now feel free to boost healing as much as you want. I think around 100 for 12 blood is decent enough. -- NUKLEAR IIV 17:38, 5 October 2009 (UTC)

Why not something like "5e, 1/2s, 5r - Draw all conditions from target other ally. For every condition drew that you were suffering from, gain x...x...x energy. For every condition you were not suffering from, gain x...x...x health. (Atrribute: LolAPRangers)" Moo Kitty 17:43, 5 October 2009 (UTC)

Again you are adding energy gain to the blood (or soul reaping, who cares) line. It's conditional, sure, but with conditions everyfuckingwhere...

The point is, why complicate the issue? Just eliminate the energy gain and call it a day. -- NUKLEAR IIV 17:49, 5 October 2009 (UTC)

Okay. So now it's Draw Conditions in a worse line. Hello unused pile of skills, would you like a new friend? Bathory talk 03:27, 6 October 2009 (UTC)

It enables primary Necromancers to take another secondairy and secondairy Necromancers to have a draw skill. Still useful. Dark Morphon 06:16, 6 October 2009 (UTC)

We have varying definitions of useful. For that purpose, this would be used at 0 Blood, wouldn't it? Bathory talk 12:57, 6 October 2009 (UTC)

Well, it provides more healing than Draw Conditions but is in a (currently) less useful line. I think it's about fair. Dark Morphon 15:26, 6 October 2009 (UTC)

Tbh, just slap this on a curses midline. (oh wait, we are already doing that, and it's broken) -- NUKLEAR IIV 21:34, 6 October 2009 (UTC)

As I said before, the Curses midline can do too much without being forced to spec. That's what I'm trying to change. Dark Morphon 11:31, 7 October 2009 (UTC)

We know. We're just saying that some Health gain isn't going to convince anyone bringing this to spec in to Blood. To me, some Energy gain tied to Blood and Soul Reaping would convince people to put more in Blood and to bring other Blood skills. But plain Health is just gonna see this run at 0 to 3 Blood. Bathory talk 13:13, 7 October 2009 (UTC)

The idea here isn't to promote blood usage - it's to make the game balanced. Hooah for us if we can do it both, but if one or the other, it's balance every time.

You want to fix blood? Start by repurosing the enitre line - when most of skill of an attribute suck, you don't spec for one skill. -- NUKLEAR IIV 17:08, 7 October 2009 (UTC)

I'll have to assume this is the only Blood Magic suggestion of Morphon's you've looked at. o.O Bathory talk 18:37, 7 October 2009 (UTC)

This page isn't about his grand plan. This is about one skill, Foul Feast. -- NUKLEAR IIV 19:35, 7 October 2009 (UTC)

So you're telling him to tackle the whole attribute but refusing to look at other suggestions. Gotcha. Bathory talk 21:03, 7 October 2009 (UTC)

Why are you putting words in my mouth? I never said refused to do anything, I didn't tell him to tackle the whole attribte - Why do you insist upon making sarcastic comments when they contribute nothing to the discussion at hand. -- NUKLEAR IIV 15:09, 8 October 2009 (UTC)

I disagree with you here as I believe balance is a means to a goal, namely making the game as interesting as possible. Constantly seeing the same builds being ran is boring. That's an important reason to balance the game: making sure no skill gives an unfair advantage over another one promotes variety. Of course, balance is even more important to prevent stone-paper-scissor/Build Wars situations, probably the worst thing that can happen. If I were to balance this game, I'd give every profession something fun and useful to play before moving on to balancing those roles. As it stands, only the core professions and the Assassin have a potentially balance-able role. Dark Morphon 11:09, 8 October 2009 (UTC)

Well, build ran in SCraft never change, but that's a balanced, fun game.

The definition of balance is a looser one, and while I'd be happy to talk about it, this isn't the time and place for it. -- NUKLEAR IIV 15:09, 8 October 2009 (UTC)