Feedback talk:User/Greep/Making Codex Viable

Well that was apparently a waste of half an hour... please, if you have any criticism or agreements, write them down Greep 12:06, 25 February 2010 (UTC)

The mAT idea needs to happen. The appeal of RPs will bring in enough people to give it some reliably constant activity. I can't say I agree with the class balance section, though. Providing skills like Attunements and Cover Hexes will invariably only bring people to lean towards builds that are used in other formats. If you provide Fire Attunment, for instance, and Mind Blast pops up suddenly EVERYONE will have a Fire Ele even if the only other Fire skill to pop up is Fireball or Flare because they now have limitless Energy. I do agree that Elementalists need help, but Attunements strike me as something that would make them much too common. The set of Energy management skills may not be as bad since they're not as powerful (Glowstone, Glowing Ice, Glowing Gaze and shock Arrow) and they require some attention from the user. That makes sense, doesn't it? The same thing with Parasitic Bond. It's a powerful skill that's used often because of how strong it is as a cover hex. That type of power shouldn't be constant in a format where you're trying to have a shifting metagame. I'm not particularly sure how I feel about the third section, it would quicken the pace of the games on days where damage is low and healing is heavy, but I'd worry about how it'd impact things when the opposite is true. Still, if they listened to you I'd be able to Codex a lot more often. :) Bathory talk 03:51, 28 February 2010 (UTC)

Thanks for commenting! As for your first concern, I only see this being a problem with blind surge honestly, which is why I recommended leaving air attune out of it. Admittedly, on some days eles will have a powerful skillset but.. good! I mean some days monks get WoH ya know? I don't think it'd be a problem. Perhaps always having GolE might be a better idea? As for the "VoD-like effect" it could be changed so that it happens at 6-7 minutes rather than 5 if you think on days of bad healing there's a problem. However, generally I've found in arenas if nobody dies in 3 minutes it's very drawish. Greep 19:00, 28 February 2010 (UTC)

To be honest, I came here to make the very same mAT suggestion but noticed you already had. Glyph of Lesser Energy would also be a good alternative to the Attunements, in my opinion. It's still significantly weaker on its own. Plus, I don't like the idea of not including one attribute. Water has snares which can be crushing on any given day, Earth has some too and fire with attunements deals wonderful support damage. I don't think just because Air has blind and some other conditions that it should be considered more dangerous. Also, that is true about the VoD-thing. Low damage days typically outnumber those with low healing. Good suggestions. :) Bathory talk 23:57, 1 March 2010 (UTC)

Class Balance

I totally disagree with all your points. I have a lot of Codex Experience myself and I can tell you that Codex is all about making the best out of what you have, Not having the best at all times. Your suggestions lead me to believe that you don't understand what Codex is.

A) Elementalist require energy management, I agree. Try something else than Attunements (hint Inspiration Magic hell even +energy dagger attacks). If you can't make a viable Ele bar, play something else. Codex, by design, is random. You can get the worst 20 skills of a certain professions in one deck. Nothing is made to be viable all the time in this Arena.

B) Parabond is a broken cover hex in my humble opinion. Hex removals are MEANT to counter hexes, not to FAIL and HEAL the CASTER of the hex. Bring an interrupt and rupt the hex removal if no viable cover hex is around.

C) Some days it's like that. That's Codex and the enemy team has the SAME problem so it's balanced. The ones who play best win.

D) .... This is like giving Monks Patient Spirit, Parabond to Necros, Dshot to Rangers, Spear Swipe to Paras, Armor of Sanctity to Dervishes, GoLE To Eles, Crit D to sins, Diversion to Mesmers and Resilient Weapon to Ritualists. Obvious reasons? There are tons of IAS/IMS, learn to deal with those or go play RA if you want your gimmick frenzy/rush on every deck.

I might be rude, but what you're suggesting on class balance is to turn Codex Arena into Greep's Arena. There are a couple of issues concerning Class Balance in Codex, but you're not pointing any of that. Sincerely, SylvXIII 21:50, 11 May 2010 (UTC)

You kind of reinforced his argument for Elementalists, you know. The dagger attack skills for Energy on an Elementalist isn't "taking the best of a bad situation" it's simply wasting your time. You'd be chasing people around to land hits to get Energy for your spells, as well as putting yourself in melee range for easy targeting. You'd spend more time trying to fix your Energy than making use of your Elementalist skills and you may as well have brought something else on your team. Attunements may be too powerful to just be givens, sure, but that doesn't mean that Elementalist Energy management still shouldn't be in the Elementalist class. Mesmers with inspiration magic are infinitely better than Elemtnalists with it because they don't need to sacrifice their secondary to do so. Personally I'd prefer if they used the Glowing skillset for it because those have prerequisites that must usually be met with another skill or careful timing, but I guess that is just personal preference. Bathory talk 15:47, 18 May 2010 (UTC)

How is it not "taking the best out of a deck"? If the best e-management out there is dagger attack giving energy then you'll have to micro your positioning. Make the best from what you have is my point. His point is "have goodness at all times (aka Attunement)". How am I reinforcing this? I've ran Eles successfully in codex tons of times without problems. I just really don't support the QQing about Eles lacking e-management. Never had that problem personally and I had a lot of success. So whatever. Sincerely, SylvXIII 21:41, 18 May 2010 (UTC)

You proved his point by providing an example as to why Elementalists are generally worse in Codex than other professions. While you believe that running something absurd to pull Energy for a profession that typically shouldn't need to rely on a secondary to pull their Energy up. Even if you used an example of Power Drain or something, it's still unlikely that an Elementalist would be better in that situation than a Mesmer. Especially if the main focus of the bar was around a non-elite skill's function. It's just unlikely that "making the best out of a bad deck" will get you an Elementalist team mate more than once a month. Bathory talk 23:45, 22 June 2010 (UTC)

Well sir, if you think running an energy management skill from another profession is absurd, you have a problem. Elementalists generally require a form of e-management and we agree on that. If no viable form of e-management is available in the Elementalist profession, then getting that e-management on a secondary class is the way to go. This is not absurd. This is basic Codex 101. I could make many other analogies to other professions. All you pre-established thoughts like "eles are supposed to have e-management in their own profession" or even "warriors should have an IMS/IAS" if you believe that do not apply in Codex. Eles are a pretty good Codex class. You said "Even if you used an example of Power Drain or something, it's still unlikely that an Elementalist would be better in that situation than a Mesmer" and that is wrong. If you're playing an Elementalist, it's generally for a specific elite skill out of many other things. A Mesmer cannot replace the Elementalist because of this elite skill restriction. Considering Eles have 4 "Elements" (non-primary attributes) (Warriors have 3, Monks have typically 2 (heal and prot), Necros have 3...and so on), it's 100% normal that eles are disadvantaged by the randomness of the skill selection, but this is a completely new point that you aren't arguing around to say Elementalists are inferior to others in Codex. E-management is fine. Sincerely, SylvXIII 18:50, 23 June 2010 (UTC)

It's been made clear that certain classes are hurt or benefit more because of the randomization (as has been shown with the change to non-core classes) yet you point out Elementalists (in such a way that Warriors suffer as well) still get the poor end of the deal because their skills are spread between more attributes that this is a reason we should not explore a way to remedy that problem. What? Bathory talk 04:59, 12 July 2010 (UTC)

I'm saying e-management is not the problem. Plus you claim I am against exploring a solution for the Elementalist profession. "What?" yourself boy. SylvXIII 21:12, 12 July 2010 (UTC)

Someone suggests something in order to increase the availability of Elementalist primary classes in Codex and you're against it. There are no ways to misinterpret that. And since I've yet to see you suggesting something, you must be against any changes to Elementalists within Codex. Bathory talk 19:27, 21 July 2010 (UTC)

Yes, that is right: I am against buffing Elementalists' e-management in Codex. If you still haven't realized it yet by Anet's terrible skill updates, buffing things that don't need a buff puts the game out of balance though in this case it would be the arena. You're assuming something that is not true: that I am against buffing Elementalist which is underpowered in Codex. I do in fact have a suggestion concerning Elementalist (and suggestions concerning all of Codex Arena in general). If I actually still cared about Codex, I would make up a suggestion page like Greep did and write those down but I'm just checking my watchlist. SylvXIII 22:56, 21 July 2010 (UTC)