Feedback talk:User/Ilr/Archived Suggestions/Shadow Form: Keep it Perma

I think we need a more simple skill ^_^.Ciotto 01:50, 3 September 2009 (UTC)

There's very little hope for this skill. Nothing but a complete rewrite would make this not suck. Even in normal non-farming non-running use, it has no point in normal PvE as the fallbacks (50 hitpoints when it ends, 33% less damage) are too severe. The only pro to it is you don't get hit. But even then, AoE's still hit you. It's not good in any form of the game besides farming and running, both of which are things that A.net doesn't really want us to do.-- anguard 01:56, 3 September 2009 (UTC)

So why do I keep seeing "LF Perma sin/tank" in certain Dungeon outposts? It would seem to me that a Ally-Buffable Tank that never dies will ALWAYS be an asset to a Team... much more so than a Vow of Silence Dervish that can't even be buffed/healed by their own Allies once VoW is up. *shrug* --ilr 21:45, 3 September 2009 (UTC)

What up with people wanting to balance PvE? What does it matter when all playstyles are either tank lolnuke or blockweb anyway (both exploiting poor AI)? That is what you need to change and the only way to do that is by improving the AI of the monsters, something which consumes time and is better spent on balancing PvP, where there isn't sucky AI (unless you are talking about heroes, which are to be removed anyway). Dark Morphon 13:04, 10 September 2009 (UTC)

im confus

"The biggest problem with Shadow Form currently is that it rewards Users who exploit poor A.I. with powers that have nothing to do with the Assassin's primary Weapon, IE: Daggers."

Your change will either remove the skill from the game or let people continue tanking with it, but your proposed mechanics will not make anyone focus on using daggers with it. Just thought I'd let you know. -Auron 23:03, 17 September 2009 (UTC)

Please explain how anyone will still be able to "Tank" or exploit Damage-Redirection powers when all the durations of Skills used to do those things will be reduced by half? I'm not challenging your opinion and I'm glad that a real expert is feeling generous enough to help me with this proposal. But I'll need more details than that. ...Except for the thing about Daggers, obviously Scythes and other weapons are chosen over daggers for a reason in PvE but that's not something I'm specifically trying to fix here, I'm just trying to narrow down the MASSIVE benefit that Staffs(providing the largest energy pool for SPELLS) has over Martial weapons in general... it's up to Anet or other people besides me to figure out how to make Daggers more appealing after that. --ilr 23:58, 17 September 2009 (UTC)

It cuts maintainable enchants in half? Oh god, whatever will the tank do then? -Auron 01:06, 18 September 2009 (UTC)

LoL... Nerf Mending maybe? Look, they're only "Maintainable" when you got multiple Monks chaining their protections on ya and that's kinda the whole point: To give a solo ShadowFarmer a brief and fleeting use of enchants/stances, but still allow them to tank with enough back-line support in teams. If there's a better way, plz tell me how. My version might not be perfect but It beats the shit out Vow of Silence... --ilr 01:20, 18 September 2009 (UTC)

Uh, DoA teams maintain enchants like life bond on the sin tanks so they can run way the hell out and grab mobs without fearing death from the pbaoe things drop. There are more maintainable enchants than mending.

Also, "it's better than VoS" isn't a really good excuse as to why this still doesn't improve daggers, when that's what you say at the top of the page. -Auron 04:21, 18 September 2009 (UTC)

I hate it when you're right... --ilr 19:22, 26 February 2010 (UTC)

LoL @ FB's tag

"if you want to bring back perma" -- Read harder d00de, they TOOK the part of my suggestion which pointed to making it easier to perma, IE: reducing recharge back to 30s. IoW: IT'S MOAR PERMA-able! -- The only thing I need to update is the old functionality b/c I'm not sold on their new version as it appears that it could STILL exploit Sliver Armor & HolyWrath/Retribution. ...All of this is assuming FB is reading any of the details of each suggestion page he's spamming this tag to, lol ya rite....
--pause for dramatic effect--
...
point is:
This page ain't goin' no where and if it gets deleted I'll just make a new one until Shadow-form focuses on the type of play-style that I think it should' be focused on, IE: physicals and the use of martial weapons/skills. ...not this "I'm a ninja /w a STAFF, hurf durf, LIGHTNING BOLT! LIGHTNING BOLT! FAP FAP!, LIGHTNING BOLT!" crapola ...And I won't rest till everyone else recognizes how retarded that status quo is. It'd be like strapping Napalm Carpet bombs onto the Drones we send into Pakistan -- just a total mismatch of the class' intended delivery and skill-set... --ilr 18:45, 26 February 2010 (UTC)

So... Update it and remove the tag. Your suggestion to "keep it perma" is not what they did, but your suggestion took place prior to the update, so it's an outdated suggestion. As far as getting them to revamp the skill to the "concept of the skill"... Evidently their idea of the concept of the skill and your concept of the skill are not one and the same. -- FreedomBound 18:55, 26 February 2010 (UTC)

And I don't care b/c history is on my side. They're going to continue to hit this same wall well into Guildwars2's development... I'm sure of it. I'm not saying mine is the only concept that matters... I'm just saying that mine's the only one that fully takes EXPLOITS into account ahead of time and puts the impetus back on skilled melee combat where it belongs. And that's exactly why I want this page to live a nice long life... so I can point back it years from now and Gloat, as with so many other predictions I've made before this --ilr 19:07, 26 February 2010 (UTC)

PS: Apologies for the bad assumption though... I should have said: "Assuming FB's watching each of these pages individually and not just the recent edits page" --ilr 19:10, 26 February 2010 (UTC)

Both of those are true atm, and I did read your suggestion. Both when you created it and when I tagged it. -- FreedomBound 19:19, 26 February 2010 (UTC)

So, you titled your suggestion 'keep it perma', then your suggestion makes it impossible to keep it up more than 2 cycles without retreating, or some serious help to reduce the recharge. You also want it to focus back on the assassin (which I cannot fault you for at all), but you leave in one of the changes they made that limit the build, the damage reduction based on enchantments, all of which under your idea will take twice as long to recharge, thus nerfing the skill even further, and not addressing the intention of melee-orientation. Why not at least suggest the damage reduction be tied to the number of dagger attack skills you are equipped with? That alone would drag it back to dagger-sin usage rather than nukers. And if you really want to make it for melee (or at least attacking only), 60 recharge, but auto-renew if attacking, and bump up the energy cost again. Not that I want any of these changes, having just gotten used to the new incarnation of it, but they would be closer to the goal you stated. Guildwarsrunner 21:33, 13 September 2010 (UTC)