Feedback talk:User/Khomet/Paragon Refresh

Dervishes no longer get the mysticism armor in PVP, and rangers don't typically get the full benefit of a shield (they usually get 8 armor out of it plus mods). That being said, paragon armor isn't too much of a problem, although it might be if this went through. Spears have far better DPS than bows, and can apply deep wound and strip stances.

-Your godspeed ideas I'm not too fond of; they're completely useless to dervishes and many assassins.

-Your hex removal ideas are awesome; hex stacking is easy and nasty these days

-The biggest problem with removing the drawbacks to the paragon's IAS skills would be allowing good damage, strong support, long range, and heavy armor on a single character. The spear has strong DPS even without boosted speed. Although making echoes unstackable might balance things out (it would function like rapid fire, in that you can't stack your IAS with your passive damage boosts). Of course, rapid fire may not be the best comparison; it's a rarely used and underpowered preparation for a weapon which has pathetic damage in PVP and uses barrage most of the time in PVE.

-IJAFW is an awesome idea, although blindbots will scream in frustration (also a good thing)

-I like the reducing of chant cast time; 1s is plenty to interrupt, and I feel that the potent defensive support skills should all have some cast time, to make the paragon choose between DPS and support roles. If interrupting is still considered a problem, 1.5s cast would also work, but 2s is too long in my opinion

-Cruel spear as you have it is probably OP. Wounding strike eats an enchantment and is melee range, and scythes typically take longer to build adrenalin with (assuming your enemies don't bunch up too much). Perhaps a PVE/PVP split would work here?

-Merciless spear: again, it's from a range, and ranged deep wound needs more drawbacks than melee deep wound. Especially given the ease with which adrenalin is acquired with a spear.

-Slayer's spear I'm no sure about; bows make up for poor single target damage with conditions and interrupts (PVP) and AoE damage (PVE). Giving AoE damage to a weapon with better single target DPS might make bows essentially obsolete in PVE.

-Stunning strike: again, this steals one of the only remaining benefits of a bow. On a good single-target ranged weapon, this would probably be a problem.

-Swift javelin's changes I like, although your version is better than crossfire in that it can be used for a standoff spike (in PVP, rangers rarely if ever use a bow with a pet and thus cannot safely meet the conditional without help)

-I really like the ideas for remedy signet, especially including hex removal.

I hope that wasn't too long; I tried to break it up to make it easier to go through point by point.--152.20.182.65 14:17, 16 March 2012 (UTC)

Let me remind that that these suggestions are not his own but that it's a mere compilation of suggestions made on Guru.

Well coming to the damage criteria of bows vs spears let me correct you in the comparison that both spears and bows are outdated in terms of damage. Bows in particular are almost useless in PvE for damage and has been nerfed countless of times in PvP as well. It still has a place in PvP but that's about it. My advice for you is not to compare spear with the bow in terms of damage and usefulness since the bow is already overnerfed and useless.

Spear itself may deals some decent damage on itself but it's skills are too conditional and only few are good. Altough quite a handful of these suggestion are indeed a bit overpowered.

Cruel Spear will do fine without the bleeding since it already has damage.

Merciless Spear having unconditional ranged deep wound without drawback is indeed OP, for an adrenal deep wound Wearying Spear that has a drawback would be a better candidate knowing the function of Wearying Strike.

The AoE interrupt of Stunning Strike is interresting and not something i see particular as OP for an elite knowing what mesmers can do.

Slayer's Spear is a bit weak, an increase in damage and recharge would make it much more effective for AoE damage, spamming it would also mean you are burning trough your energy and gain adrenaline ridiculously fast, too fast to call it balanced.

Swift Javelin is a skill that looks nice and balanced.

Unblockable Throw is also one that i have my doubts about, the comparison with Twin Moon Sweep but that one acts as a finisher of a combo. The paragon has no such combo ability in it's attacks nor does this suggestion offer a good damage combo for it's use.

Some of these are good, some are overpowered, some are underpowered and some are just useless. They may look like some nice suggestions but none of them adress the problem of the lack of balance the paragon has. All of them are just a bunch of individual suggestions that look nice but won't help the paragon. Da Mystic Reaper 15:16, 16 March 2012 (UTC)

Wow, quick reply. I suppose comparing the damage to bows is bad (I'm still not clear on why they're so paranoid about bow spikes though to be honest).

Stunning strike is less effective than some mesmer skills, but it isn't in the context of a (theoretically) dedicated shutdown class either. Paragons aren't really supposed to have mass interrupts, just like warriors aren't supposed to have heavy condition and hex removal; they have other strengths and a different role.

If slayer's spear gives adrenalin per hit the way volley does, it can be converted into a lot of energy pretty easily ("Go for the eyes!"). Coupled with a zealous spear, a competent party and mobbing enemies and they could spam it with energy to spare. It could certainly go far to maintaining SY, I would think.

Swift javelin does seem balanced, in the context of bows being so underpowered. And I agree that individual changes like this won't fix things.--152.20.182.65 15:33, 16 March 2012 (UTC)

Armor Example

For the armour example it might be worth noting that Monk's can be better armoured than a Paragon under a Paragon IaS too. 80+10+16-20 = 86. Compared to a Monk who can have 60+15+16 = 91. The monk's skillbar would also be more effective in this case too, due to a reliant on only energy, instead of a reliance on both energy and adrenaline. Likewise, a Mo/Pa that specs into Divine Favour, Spear Mastery and Healing could be almost as armoured as a Pa/Mo specced into Leadership, Spear Mastery and Motivation, with vastly superior healing capability and only very slightly weaker damage capability. 82.11.226.30 18:18, 9 May 2012 (UTC)