Feedback talk:User/Stiletto/Gamepad controller support
Don't count on it, dude. From what I've seen, a controller isn't really viable. This tends to be the case for MMOs, since this genre requires more buttons then a simple controller can provide.--Will Greyhawk 01:28, 5 January 2012 (UTC)
- From what I've played (PAX), I'm confident that it's a viable solution at least for combat situations. I'm not looking to supplant the keyboard (although xbox360 does have a chatpad that could somewhat shore that gap, provided the API allows mapping to those keys). Rather, I'm looking for an additional choice of control when it makes sense. Players of Battlefield 3 will use keyboard/mouse when running/gunning then switch to a joystick when controlling an aerial vehicle, so there's at least one solid example of support multiple methods of control for a single activity. Furthermore, these controls are very similar to recent RPGs like Dragon Age. Alas, I'm not counting on as full support as I'd hope. I do hope for at least some partial support for high level actions (placing an area effect, rotating the camera vertically) that weren't map-able in GW and were only doable by specific mouse actions. If there's some specific controls in combat that you think I haven't accounted for in my original request, please let me know; I'd like to flesh out the idea as completely as possible.--Stiletto 16:47, 5 January 2012 (UTC)
- I fully support this idea. Plenty of popular action-oriented MMOs like Vindictus, Rusty Hearts and Dragon Nest all have native gamepad support. I've personally put a ton of hours into DCUO and Champions Online, both of which are excellent on a gamepad. If GW2's combat were more 'traditional' like the prequel, I can see how asking for gamepad support would be redundant, but the combat is as quick and fluid as what you can see in the games I've mentioned. These games have demonstrated and proven that gamepads are viable controls in MMOs, and GW2 should not be an exception when it comes to native gamepad support.
- And in case it comes up, XPadder, Joy2key and other third-party binding programs aren't very good solutions, since they mostly involve binding keyboard keys to analog gamepad controls. You end up with blocky movement and no way to control the camera, unless the game supports manual pitch/yaw through keyboard commands, and even then it's just as blocky. At best it's a half-baked solution, and will end up playing worse than just going mouse/keyboard. From what I've read in their blog, GW2 developers aren't about half-baked solutions. It'll require effort on their part to really make it feel great, and I do hope that they do recognize that there's a demand/expectation for gamepad controls out there.
- As for the idea itself, don't forget that 2-button combinations can increase the number of bindable actions exponentially. Both DCUO and Champions Online's controller schemes involve holding down both LB/LT/RB/RT + A/B/X/Y to activate skills. That's 16 button combinations right there, even more when you combine D-pad directions, L3/R3 buttons and so on. Champions in particular took full advantage of this and managed to bind build slots, device slots and even targeting commands onto one gamepad. --Jjac 09:14, 25 January 2012 (UTC)
- Thanks for the feedback; I've just recently run into Vindictus and definitely see what you mean.
- I think I'm going to make a mockup list of what a gamepad options page would need to contain and give descriptions for analogs back to functions they've (likely) already defined for keyboard and mouse. Please let me know if you find anything lacking or missing. The (lofty) goal would be for a dev to see the list of options and associated descriptions, and say "that IS easy to implement!" Thanks. --Stiletto 03:56, 26 January 2012 (UTC)
Controls : keys to pad[edit]
Greetings from a mouse user, though I have a PS3 that will take dust in a few weeks. ;)
In general, other control schemes are more about you look at where you aim, which isn't necessary the case here. On top of that, you need to be able to navigate the menus, the interface and the whole set of the game interactions with your pad only, except for text input (chat, forms, etc.). That's where the game designers have to do extra and often overlooked care and a bit more work as well.
Lets say that you get the mappable pitch/yaw, don't forget that some skills are channeled (have to stay pressed for a while), others are toggled and a few chained. But the more problematic problem is that alltogether you have to be able to ground-target at cursor's position, activate a couple skills in a short span, freely move the character and still orient the camera to look at the action.
Ok, now that the itching points are isolated, lets see if you still have the number of mapped abilities that you need to avoid being at a disadvantage (which you could personaly workaround, but that ANet can't get around if they indicate that gamepads are to be supported by the game). Lets use a 7-th generation gamepad for the breakdown list, and see if all the game gw2:controls fit.
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Seems it does the trick rather nicely. This proposal takes advantage of the auto-target and auto-attack features, while keeping evade and healing close - right on the triggers - movement always ready at the left thumb and combat in the right hand. Note that the current skill on auto-repeat can be changed if desired, but it is even more convenient with a pad as the first weapon skill, so convenient actually that jump can be mapped on R3 instead of the first weapon skill for most professions.
The L1 mode allow access to everything about aiming, interacting with the game world and selecting a target. Then you can engage with your weapon skills through the four iconic face buttons, or access utility and elite by combining those with R1.
Since mobility has been kept a priority in this layout, neither can you change targets and trigger skills simultaneously (except healing and auto-attack naturally) or channel weapon skills while triggering instant slot skills (like mantras for instance). So you may want to swap D-Pad and R1 + Face buttons mappings (slot versus profession skills), a setup which could also be more desirable for engineers and elementalists who have relatively short recharge skills as toolbelt and attunements (respectively).
Dialog options allow both numbered choices (same as weapon skills) and arrow navigation and selection (L-Stick then L1 + DPad-Left), so it shouldn't be a problem.
Zoom on the other hand... may be a problem, particularly in enclosed spaces or against gigantic mobs. Some additional options (Source : GWOnline.net) to ease the targeting system and provide even more comfort to this peculiar control scheme :
- changing "invert camera Y-axis" depending on your preference,
- disabling "double-click to attack/interact",
- disabling "double-tap to evade",
- disabling "stop auto-attacking on target swap",
- keeping "auto-targeting",
- enabling "autoloot",
- enabling "fast cast ground-targeting",
- enabling "automatically promote skill targets to full target" (probably a good idea to map hold lock then),
- enabling "show all enemies names",
- enabling "show skill recharge".
Thanks for the initial suggestion and to those reading down to here. -- 
Leonim [talk·contribs] 07:58, 11 April 2012 (UTC)
Simple implementation:[edit]
There are many programs out there that accept a controller input and output simulated key presses and mouse movement, though in my experience the mouse movement is quite clumsy. I would suggest instead an option for a pure keyboard setup (completely customisable, no mouse required for combat, movement and camera control) and then allowing users to emulate the key presses and build their own layout to suit their own controller/joystick.
If you settle on any one layout someone will be annoyed with it. Also consider that people have different controllers with different amounts of buttons.
Also provided mouse interaction is simple (like the camera in gw1) you CAN use it if you use the proper software, I have a fully functional setup in GW1 via my 360 controller and the free version of Xpadder; The setup I use includes full camera rotation, calling targets, one button looting, auto acquiring called targets, targeting enemies AND allies and all skills... just requires some thought setting up the layout. (I can give you the setup if you want).
My only concern with guildwars 2 is things like placeable AoE's which would be VERY clumsy without some form of auto-place (either centred on a target or to maximise targets hit). Phores 09:33, 24 April 2012 (UTC)
