Feedback talk:User/Tounaku/Way of the Empty Palm
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I suggest changing the wording to "...your next Attack Skill against target foe costs up to..." 
elix Omni 12:38, 14 December 2009 (UTC)
- Ah, thanks. That makes it a lot easier to understand... Tounaku 12:47, 14 December 2009 (UTC)
- Uh, I thought we gathered from Palm Strike that skipping the lead attack was a bad thing. Correct me if I'm wrong, but that seemed to be everyone's issue with it. Having a 0-activation time skill do the same thing and buff the next attack would probably pose an even bigger issue. Also, why does your second suggestion cost more energy as the ranks progress? Even if you reverse it (which I assume was your intention) I don't think this would see any more use than the present version. --Kyoshi (Talk)
19:16, 14 December 2009 (UTC)
- Woop, thanks. It's supposed to be "costs up to x less energy." Well, that's fixed now. The reason I think this change would be good is because is gives an Assassin another skill that can be used flexibly; flexibility being one of the most desired and important attributes when it comes to playing Assassin. Palm Strike skipping the lead became bad because after the update it became ridiculously spammable, inflicted a long duration of crippling, and also dealt constant armor-ignoring damage. It was nerfed because it was broken and overused. With this version of WotEP, an Assassin can have the fastest access to dual attacks with no real downtime. However, the price for this is a lack of conditions and only a minimal damage boost or decent energy gain depending on which version seems best. The fact that it can be used upon recharge to segway into a Dual Attack makes it valuable and useful while not being truly overpowered. This skill wouldn't necessarily be overpowered. It's main purpose is simply to give an Assassin greater flexibility for and faster execution of an attack chain at the cost of an elite skill slot; something that the current WotEP can't really do and something that the current Guild Wars Assassin desperately needs. Tounaku 00:53, 15 December 2009 (UTC)
- I dunno about desperately, but I see your point. I still don't know that it's necessarily better than the current version. --Kyoshi (Talk) 11:50, 15 December 2009 (UTC)
- I'm not sure if it's "better" than the current version either, but it is more flexible and that's where the strength comes from. We can't just keep suggesting buffs. The game is power crept too much as it is. Tounaku 16:50, 15 December 2009 (UTC)
- I dunno about desperately, but I see your point. I still don't know that it's necessarily better than the current version. --Kyoshi (Talk)
- Woop, thanks. It's supposed to be "costs up to x less energy." Well, that's fixed now. The reason I think this change would be good is because is gives an Assassin another skill that can be used flexibly; flexibility being one of the most desired and important attributes when it comes to playing Assassin. Palm Strike skipping the lead became bad because after the update it became ridiculously spammable, inflicted a long duration of crippling, and also dealt constant armor-ignoring damage. It was nerfed because it was broken and overused. With this version of WotEP, an Assassin can have the fastest access to dual attacks with no real downtime. However, the price for this is a lack of conditions and only a minimal damage boost or decent energy gain depending on which version seems best. The fact that it can be used upon recharge to segway into a Dual Attack makes it valuable and useful while not being truly overpowered. This skill wouldn't necessarily be overpowered. It's main purpose is simply to give an Assassin greater flexibility for and faster execution of an attack chain at the cost of an elite skill slot; something that the current WotEP can't really do and something that the current Guild Wars Assassin desperately needs. Tounaku 00:53, 15 December 2009 (UTC)
- Uh, I thought we gathered from Palm Strike that skipping the lead attack was a bad thing. Correct me if I'm wrong, but that seemed to be everyone's issue with it. Having a 0-activation time skill do the same thing and buff the next attack would probably pose an even bigger issue. Also, why does your second suggestion cost more energy as the ranks progress? Even if you reverse it (which I assume was your intention) I don't think this would see any more use than the present version. --Kyoshi (Talk)
This + Twisting Fangs. Instant Deep Wound is bad, I herd. Dark Morphon 11:40, 17 December 2009 (UTC)
- Assassins don't need another overpowered skill, which is exactly what this would be. If you were meant to skip to dual attacks, they would just be attack skills. Don't try to balance according to PS, because it's broken, for the very thing you're doing. It's broken because it skips to duals, not because of cripple/damage. -- Tha Reckoning File:User Tha Reckoning Sig2.jpg 11:49, 17 December 2009 (UTC)
- Wrong. It's broken because of the Cripple+Off-Hand Attack skip. The old version was like completely worthless. For the record, it only did damage and skip. Many non-elites skip to duals, it only gets broken when you have more of them in the same niche. Look at all the past and current broken Assassin builds: Shadow Prison worked with 2 Hex-requiring Off-Hands, Palm Strike works with 2 Knockdown-requiring Off Hands and so does Backbreaker. All you have to do really is adjust Palm Strike and either Falling Lotus Strike or Falling Spider. Dark Morphon 17:21, 24 December 2009 (UTC)
- The cripple just makes it a little worse because it synergizes with HotO well. The main reason is that it skips to duals. Anyway, the entire profession is broken out the ass. Any profession purely meant for nothing but gimmicks shouldn't exist anyway. -- Tha Reckoning File:User Tha Reckoning Sig2.jpg 17:26, 24 December 2009 (UTC)
- That's all the non-core professions and to a lesser extent the Necromancer. Yeah, they need reworks. Assassins are workable, though. Shadow Steps are part of the problem and part of the solution: Make the Assassin a mobility-based class. At any rate, Assassins are nowhere near as bad as the Ritualist. There's NOTHING good about them. I mean, come on. Passive spirits and backline capabilities that are gimmicky at best? Needs a complete overhaul. Dark Morphon 17:35, 24 December 2009 (UTC)
- Every time I get/face a rit, I headdesk cause they're either broken, not useful, or PVE. -- Tha Reckoning File:User Tha Reckoning Sig2.jpg 17:37, 24 December 2009 (UTC)
- That's all the non-core professions and to a lesser extent the Necromancer. Yeah, they need reworks. Assassins are workable, though. Shadow Steps are part of the problem and part of the solution: Make the Assassin a mobility-based class. At any rate, Assassins are nowhere near as bad as the Ritualist. There's NOTHING good about them. I mean, come on. Passive spirits and backline capabilities that are gimmicky at best? Needs a complete overhaul. Dark Morphon 17:35, 24 December 2009 (UTC)
- The cripple just makes it a little worse because it synergizes with HotO well. The main reason is that it skips to duals. Anyway, the entire profession is broken out the ass. Any profession purely meant for nothing but gimmicks shouldn't exist anyway. -- Tha Reckoning File:User Tha Reckoning Sig2.jpg 17:26, 24 December 2009 (UTC)
- Wrong. It's broken because of the Cripple+Off-Hand Attack skip. The old version was like completely worthless. For the record, it only did damage and skip. Many non-elites skip to duals, it only gets broken when you have more of them in the same niche. Look at all the past and current broken Assassin builds: Shadow Prison worked with 2 Hex-requiring Off-Hands, Palm Strike works with 2 Knockdown-requiring Off Hands and so does Backbreaker. All you have to do really is adjust Palm Strike and either Falling Lotus Strike or Falling Spider. Dark Morphon 17:21, 24 December 2009 (UTC)
- Assassins don't need another overpowered skill, which is exactly what this would be. If you were meant to skip to dual attacks, they would just be attack skills. Don't try to balance according to PS, because it's broken, for the very thing you're doing. It's broken because it skips to duals, not because of cripple/damage. -- Tha Reckoning File:User Tha Reckoning Sig2.jpg 11:49, 17 December 2009 (UTC)
