Talk:"Coward!"

Buff request

WTB buff plz!

Make it energy so u cud catch pre kiting foes and give it a relitavly short recharge and maybe annother effect i dont know. Destructos Maximus 22:34, 29 December 2007 (UTC)

FA just got harder for the kurzicks, lol.--Ryudo 21:11, 17 January 2008 (UTC)

Love, love, love running this as Luxon on FA. Sprint + Bull's Strike, then Grapple + "I Meant to do That!", then "Coward!" = Triple-Knockdown-Lockdown. Annoys amber runners and monks no end. One got so irked he even PM'd me to tell me to f*%! off once! Andran Steel 03:38, 19 April 2011 (UTC)

If you want an energy version, take water trident. You don't need any water magic for it to knock down, and it only costs 5e with 3s recharge.

Overpowered much? Bull's Strike + "Coward!" on one bar is stupid. 204.52.179.199 13:27, 18 January 2008 (UTC)

Nope, still underpowered. Nobody is going to drop YAA or evicerate for this. Antiarchangel 13:51, 18 January 2008 (UTC)

Do you ever play RA? its filled with A/W and W/P <_< and they really hurt >_> Aljazya 16:25, 18 January 2008 (UTC)

STFU YOU COWARD!!! though when i see sins using this, its them who are running away and using Coward! to get away 19:59, 18 January 2008 (UTC)

NPA please. 75.45.160.30 08:03, 19 January 2008 (UTC)

Hehe, it makes me laugh everytime they they shout "Coward!" and knock down the warrior that is chasing them. Now if only they would add a "Hypocrite!" shout. - Elder Angelus 18:23, 15 May 2008 (UTC)

For anyone doubting that this skill can be useful... Assassins. That is all. 69.40.240.30 21:46, 22 January 2008 (UTC)

Yeh. Dark Morphon(contribs) 13:28, 23 January 2008 (UTC)

@75 wasnt directed at anyone just a general statement, and considering the "potential" for this skill, i wont be surprised if it gets a recharge nerf eventually 16:22, 28 January 2008 (UTC)

Vandalip and all the rest coward is not only usefull on assassins,it can be usefull on paras and on warriors 2.If i'm not mistaking there used to be a time were my friends guilds climbed the ladders because of the huge pressure 2 coward paragons caused ;) Lilondra *poke* 06:25, 14 September 2008 (UTC)

<3 this skill Frosty 11:35, 11 June 2009 (UTC)

Is gud. ;3 Mediggo 11:38, 11 June 2009 (UTC)

4 Adren ranged bull's strike that's unblockable is soooooo hawt. Frosty 11:53, 11 June 2009 (UTC)

One of my favorite RA skills, too bad everyone and their mothers are carrying Balanced Stance though ;( --J0ttem™ 12:08, 11 June 2009 (UTC)

Ownz toombz, you need whirling axe in ta tbh. Frosty 12:21, 11 June 2009 (UTC)

vs "None Shall Pass!"

How is this any better than "None Shall Pass!"? I don't really get it :S Combatter 01:49, 25 July 2009 (UTC)

You should really understand that there is more to a skill than just what it does. I'll give you a hint: cost, cast time (irrelevant here), recharge. King Neoterikos 01:42, 25 July 2009 (UTC)

OK so NSP costs 10 energy and has a 45 second recharge whereas Coward! needs 4 strikes of adrenaline. But those strikes will take you a while to build up. And NSP is knocking down all nearby moving foes whereas Coward! only knocks down the target. I'd say that their power was pretty comparable tbh! Combatter 01:49, 25 July 2009 (UTC)

No, they are not comparable, not by any means. 4 strikes is pathetically easy to build up. Coward also has shout range, whereas NSP is only nearby. There is a reason why this is elite. I'm assuming you are talking about use in PvP here, because both are pretty crap in PvE. King Neoterikos 01:57, 25 July 2009 (UTC)

Hmm OK. Combatter 13:50, 25 July 2009 (UTC)

If anything you should compare this to Enraged Smash, Bull's Charge, or Bull's Strike. <>Sparky, the Tainted 14:17, 25 July 2009 (UTC)

+ Infuriating Heat <3

Because superpowered Luxon Warriors are strong. Mediggo 19:49, 5 December 2009 (UTC)

Yes, this would make them very annoying to (try to) run from. They should be able to chain this indefinitely among the four of them. -~=Sparky (talk) 20:39, 5 December 2009 (UTC)

Related skills

What similarities should be used to identify these related skills sections? The section didn't seem that long to me, Jon. --Kyoshi (Talk) 03:15, 29 June 2010 (UTC)

I tend to think of 5 as a good limit. It's just that beyond that, you might as well have some sort of categorization or page for that (in this case, it'd be knockdown). --JonTheMon 03:40, 29 June 2010 (UTC)

In practice the related skills would be Bull's Strike, Enraged Smash and Water Trident. We discussed this for like 15 pages and that was what was decided for the guideline (Practical similarity over mechanical). Misery 06:42, 29 June 2010 (UTC)

What Misery said. There was a discussion on GWiki where Fyren summed it up nicely; "No one is interested in [Shield Stance] because of it and will think, "gee, flail's nice, but I'm looking for something a little different to snare myself." There are some skill similarities that, quite frankly, don't matter at all. In the end, we always decided to keep the list useful and only list skills that could be taken to realistically serve the same purpose. Nobody is going to take slippery ground or pounce as KD skills, ever. Bull's Strike, however, has been run since the beginning of the game as the staple knockdown skill, and should definitely be in the related skills section. -Auron 07:02, 29 June 2010 (UTC)

I was more concerned about the fact that the shout KDs were being related but not the ones Misery said were related "in practice". I figured KD while moving was the important part, so the current list seems good, though I'd also add "None Shall Pass" because it's KD while moving and a shout. It doesn't see much use in practice, but Water Trident doesn't either, in my experience. Not a big deal for me though, I'll leave it. --Kyoshi (Talk) 12:10, 29 June 2010 (UTC)

Water Trident isn't being used these days mainly because Coward! got buffed, but it was used in exactly the same way. The reason I wouldn't include None Shall Pass! is because of the lack of spammability. Misery 12:32, 29 June 2010 (UTC)

I would have thought that you move like a dwarf would be related, both ranged KDs with shout marks.. but i guess its not conditional like coward. --File:User Chieftain Alex Chieftain Signature.pngChieftain Alex 14:16, 29 June 2010 (UTC)

You Move Like a Dwarf is a PvE only skill. Why would you EVER use Coward in PvE? How is the information that they are both shout based knockdowns useful? Misery 15:14, 29 June 2010 (UTC)

Because it's basically the more useful, PvE version of Coward. --Kyoshi (Talk) 18:02, 29 June 2010 (UTC)

no ymlad is used by casters coward by physicals 127.0.0.1 18:42, 29 June 2010 (UTC)

Judging by how enemies use "NSP!" I can imagine heroes using "Coward!" on any foe in earshot range, whether they are attacking it or not, resulting in quite a few knockdowns. Manifold 19:20, 29 June 2010 (UTC)

@Manifold: Play Fort Aspenwood sometime, you'll see just how true that is. Gets damn annoying being knocklocked by Luxon Warriors.

@127: Do we really categorize by whether a caster or physical uses it? Then why is Water Trident on here? I really don't think that point is relevant. --Kyoshi (Talk) 20:56, 29 June 2010 (UTC)

Water Trident warriors existed before the Coward buff. Misery 20:57, 29 June 2010 (UTC)

I'm trying to get my head around why Bull's wasn't used instead. Or Shock. It seems like one second would be long enough for a competent target to stop moving. Meh, metas are strange.

And why does it matter whether it's a caster or physical using it? Someone may be looking for a caster alternative to a physical skill, or vice versa. It's similar. I think that should be enough. I'm also trying to get my head around why you've decided the skill's use is more important than its mechanics, and why it should replace it. We have plenty of room on skill pages. Mind filling me in? --Kyoshi (Talk) 21:43, 29 June 2010 (UTC)

Or you could go and read the pages of discussion on the talk page for the guideline and I could not rehash this entire argument every single time it comes up. Which is quite often by the way. As an aside, we have a spot for mechanical relationships. Misery 21:46, 29 June 2010 (UTC)

Fine, fine. --Kyoshi (Talk) 22:42, 29 June 2010 (UTC)

Irony

This skill is much more often used for running away than chasing someone. Seriously.

Play more PvP--83.82.62.210 19:56, 25 November 2010 (UTC)