Talk:Aura of the Lich/Archive 1

I GUESS THIS IS PRETTY GOOD. --The preceding unsigned comment was added by User:68.205.162.9 (talk).

please sign your comments --Firadesunna 16:59, 26 February 2008 (UTC)

Dark Aura?

Does this halve the damage from Dark Aura? Justing6 04:10, 28 February 2008 (UTC)

Yes it does as well as any other life sacrificing skills.William Wallace 06:55, 1 March 2008 (UTC)

NO it does not. Dark aura will still do the full nineteen or so damage and actually will kill you faster (if you apply this enchantment) before anything else will.Highway Man 04:23, 30 March 2008 (UTC)

Degen

Health degeneration is really fatal if you don't have regeneration to counter it. Ninjas In The Sky 08:59, 30 March 2008 (UTC)

  Wow you are smart.

Dark Pact

I dunno that sounds like a pretty decent combination to me. Aura of the Lich + Dark Pact =Dead enemy. Psychiatric Consultant 16:52, 25 April 2008 (UTC) how? :SOni 17:17, 23 July 2008 (UTC)

Before or after Prot Spirit?

does this halve damage before or after protective spirit? 202.124.127.38 10:55, 29 April 2008 (UTC)

I believe this the half from this skill comes after all other sources, not 100% sure though. 75.51.125.106 18:58, 3 May 2008 (UTC)

At least at 1HP it is NOT calculated after Protective Spirit unless Aura of the Lich is the last applied (which results in 0 damage taken^^).Noctarch 15:11, 21 June 2008 (UTC)

it comes after prot spirit, if you have a 27hp farming build, with just prot spirit you'd have 3 dmg from all sources, but aura makes it 2 dmg (rounded up because GW always rounds up against you haha)

Confused About Description

Does this skill make it so that half your normal health is now your full health, or does it act as though you are at 50% health? For example, would this skill work with something like Desperate Strike and Shroud of Distress? - WeHeartKatamari File:Image-User WeHeartKatamari sig.jpg 15:23, 14 June 2008 (UTC)

Your max hp is reduced, so half of your normal hp is now 100% of your health bar. Lord of all tyria 15:31, 14 June 2008 (UTC)

Aww, that sucks. Thanks for finding out, though :D - WeHeartKatamari File:Image-User WeHeartKatamari sig.jpg 19:41, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

Why would that suck? Half health and half damage from all sources, just use regeneration skills like Mystic Regeneration and Blood Renewal. Say an ele casts flare on you withouth this skill up, you take 50 damage...regeneration will regenerate it in a short amount of time, but then the same thing happens and you do have aura of the lich on you, you take 25 damage and you'll heal double as fast of regeneration skills. Not that it still matters affter it's changed now...I really hate the change, a build like

Touch of Agony - Wallow's Bite - Blood of the Aggressor - Dark Aura - Masochism - Mystic Regeneration - Blood Renewal - Aura of the Lich

realy owned all the PvP maps + it's an easy build to run so every1 could use it. Ahhh how I miss the old days. =/--84.192.6.24 17:33, 14 August 2009 (UTC)

Good With Blood Sacrifice

Reading the crap above me, I have decided this is EXTREMELY GOOD with health sacrifice skills. Oh, and one more thing. It sucks with degeneration. But it also rocks with regeneration. Overall, it's a net gain. I'd use it if I were a minion master for sure; it's a better heal than Blood Renewal. Bisurge 06:25, 20 June 2008 (UTC)

Except for owners of Factions where Flesh Golems wander. Noctarch 01:38, 3 July 2008 (UTC)

Up or Down?

Does this skill round your HP up or down? 76.232.48.233 22:20, 25 June 2008 (UTC)

Rounds down. And it cuts any +health effects in half, including demonic flesh, heart of the norn, vital blessing, vital weapon, "of fortitude" mods etc.

Aura of the lich health gain

Does not give health anymore, tested.Oni 17:15, 23 July 2008 (UTC) Edit: My bad, missread how the healing worked. :p<3Oni 17:16, 23 July 2008 (UTC)

Usefulness?

Is there really a use for this skill, seeing as how it is an Elite? It seems like every other Nec elite is better than this one - which isn't even synergistic with Blood. It would be better if it did something like "[existing desc, plus] you gain 50 health each time a creature within earshot dies." That way you could potentially offset any sac cost from Blood of the Master. 24.33.65.202 17:44, 8 November 2008 (UTC)

The whole point is that it quarters sac costs... It makes it 4x easier to maintain your HP will spamming sac skills (such as botm) and it's also a bit defensive, because you can outheal incoming damage easier, perhaps even through life stealing. -- euphoracle | talk 18:08, 8 November 2008 (UTC)

Not really.It takes up the bigger percentage of your bar just to feed regeneration back into it and make it worthwhile.For PvE human mm's, Order of Undeath is the best elite in most situations BlackBlood 18:34, 8 November 2008 (UTC)

Not every necromancer is a minion master. -- euphoracle | talk 20:20, 8 November 2008 (UTC)

The original question made notable mention of Blood of the master,suggesting that the question was in terms of an MM.And really,hard pressed to say it's usefull any other way(I will seriously cry if tanking is mentioned)That's a bad idea for more than enough reasons BlackBlood 21:49, 8 November 2008 (UTC)

IMHO it's useful pvp-wise too. i find it hard to kill AotL MM's in ABs if no disenchants are present atm. it is also great for pve MM's, since flesh golem is only good if the MM survives and AotL helps with that survivability. so no golem but meh just use the little guys and LIVE...lolKosmic 09:44, 8 December 2008 (UTC)

Lol you'll cry if tanking is mentioned. Well I have to say. That npc most of the time go for the Player, hench, or hero with the lowest health so I thought why not use this with a warrior who has high armor any way? I mean why not?--Yozuk 22:46, 11 December 2008 (UTC)

dec 12 update

I'm sad this skill has changed entirely. This was a great skill to be used in areas like AB for a strong defence. Although underpowered it served it's purpose. With the new functionality I have the feeling we're getting a lot more necro's in Elite areas like Urgoz or The Deep : For each mob you kill you can raise an army easily and move out to the next mob with a wall of minions around you.. Let's see how this turns out? --193.190.253.144 01:48, 12 December 2008 (UTC)

I think Flesh Golem is going to get run more now. Raine - talk 02:37, 12 December 2008 (UTC)

R.I.P. Aura of the Lich - December 11 2008 --Master Saji 03:36, 12 December 2008 (UTC)

Revert... raiseing an entire undead armor with 1 skill... verse a giant lvl 25 golem.... Revert... SabreWolf 03:48, 12 December 2008 (UTC)

Am I the only one that liked this change? Wandering Traveler 03:59, 12 December 2008 (UTC)

*takes a shovel* No, you aren't, but I will help you. Ɲoɕʈɋɽɕɧ 04:07, 12 December 2008 (UTC)

This is too awesome for words. And I just started a second necro earlier this week. Should be fun. I hope it isn't use in PvP or they'll just nerf it and I'll get angry. Give me that shovel when you're done, I might be needed it for some staff if it gets reverted. --Jette 04:35, 12 December 2008 (UTC)

The way I understand this is not that you raise an army for each killed mob, but rather can exploit all exploitable corpses at once. If there is only one corpse (i.e. the killed mob), you only get an army of one (no offense to the US Army for using their silly phrase). 76.30.79.54 04:51, 12 December 2008 (UTC)

If there's only one Corpse, you get an Army of Two. The Spell creates 1 Minion + 1 Minion for Each Exploited Corpse. It's rather handy.

Ah, yes, I missed the plus one. 2 extras can be nice (as in Animate Bone Minions), but not quite the wall of minions someone mentioned above. 76.30.79.54 05:01, 12 December 2008 (UTC)

Well groups of foes run in packs of 3-5... so you are creating 4-6 minions per pack of foes... so in 2 groups with using this skill 2 times... you got 10 minions on average... i'd say that is a quick army maker. But i will stick to my lvl 26 Golem. -- SabreWolf 06:27, 12 December 2008 (UTC)

Use it for yourself. It makes MMing more fluid and fun. Hands down. It's like a reset button on your dying minions after a mob. Kill the weak, replace with the new. I'm sorry, but MMing hasn't been this fun since before the 10 minion cap. Alt f four 06:33, 12 December 2008 (UTC)

Rather see it make random minions, or have a somewhat lower recharge. You're giving the foes time to exploit the corpses, after all. 66.190.15.232 06:41, 12 December 2008 (UTC)

I don't know what to say to this change. This skill did not meet their criteria for changing, as its still beign played, especially in sac bombers. I like the new version alot, but miss the old one already.71.84.240.55 07:08, 12 December 2008 (UTC)

This can't be reliably used to create armies of undeads due its high recharge time (unless you consistently clear a mob every 45 seconds...). And can't really be used to reset old minions, cause minions do not leave corpses (unless you were referring to the minions killing the mob, but, again, after 45 seconds your "new" army should already have way too much health degeneration to keep alive...). :P --NIN37 07:58, 12 December 2008 (UTC)

Just used it in aspenwood. And yes, wall of minions. Was Arcane Echoing it for a while, once to get a minion then a second time after people die. It's like all of a sudden *poof* there's a ton of minions running around. And they hurt too :) Aro 08:13, 12 December 2008 (UTC)

Resetting indent. I just tested, and the "plus one" bone horror will be created even when there aren't any corpses available. Not exactly going to help a ton, but still.

MMs are now plague (yes, its already plague, in every 2 of 3 matches I've seen a N/Me) of RA. They're echoing AotL and getting free 2 minions before the battle even starts. If opposite team doesnt kill mm pretty quick (which gives a lot of pressure)he will spawn another 2 minions giving his team an army of 4 before the battle actually starts. Combining it with spells like Death Nova + Putrid Flesh + curses + Dark Bond they become a terrible force to fight with, pretty hard to counter. Forgot to sign Gunm 09:29, 12 December 2008 (UTC)

No way, 4 16 lvl minions will be killed quick. Matek 11:37, 12 December 2008 (UTC)

If people focused on minions, not on other players - yes. But who kills minions instead of players? And with Death Nova death of a minion can be more dangerous than when they were alive. P.S. There are 4 minions at the battle beginning, each players death increases this amount by 2. Gunm 14:42, 12 December 2008 (UTC)

AoE fire should work. Also, some professions have good skills vs summoned creatures. I believe the dervishes have a super big damage one that would utterly level an entire army in one hit. Theses aren't bone fiends, so they'll bunch up. StatMan 22:21, 12 December 2008 (UTC)

notes?

"A single bone horror will be created even if there are no corpses available."

umm yeah since this is in the skill description why is it ALSO in the notes? Kosmic 09:35, 12 December 2008 (UTC)

I guess players might not notice this since all other skills creating minions require unexploited corpse. Matek 11:44, 12 December 2008 (UTC)

The Bloodstained Insignia will not trigger when using this spell, even if there are exploitable corpses within earshot. 4.225.88.233 11:59, 12 December 2008 (UTC)

NERFED

did this skill change infact nerf the AB MM's accidently? -- SabreWolf 07:44, 12 December 2008 (UTC)

Why did they change this? The new skill is not bad, but my necromancer cannot run Droks without the old one. I think ANet should just make a new skill and keep the old.

Yea, this skill is gay now.... WTF are you doing Izzy? Jonathan 11:14, 12 December 2008 (UTC)

It's not nerfed Mini Me 12:50, 12 December 2008 (UTC)

They nerfed the N/D tank MMs in AB. Goddamn those were annoying. --Riddle 13:28, 12 December 2008 (UTC)

No, it was not nerfed. It was changed. If they reduced the duration or upped the recharge or increased the cost or made it like it originally was and caused it to decrease healing as well, that would be a nerf. This is an attempt to make the skill viable in builds other than N/D "tank" MMs. Eliminating that build's potency is a side effect, not the primary intention. Those were stupid anyway, I had to take necro secondary no matter what profession I was in AB because nobody else would ever bother to bring Rend. Their passing shall not be mourned. --Jette 13:37, 12 December 2008 (UTC)

I'm slightly annoyed that I can't use this on my N/D anymore. But what annoys me more is this pattern I see emerging of completely and utterly changing skills. Surely completely changing a skills functionality is not good. If they want alternative skills they should add more skills or at least alter the ones that are literally never used (I bet there's a couple of necro elites that are never ever used).- TheRave (talk) 16:48, 12 December 2008 (UTC)

Gives MMs a headstart. I must say that this skill is "fun". Probably abusive tho. Dark Morphon(contribs) 16:57, 12 December 2008 (UTC)

I see this skill to be restored to original very soon; Even when I almost never use this skill, it is (was) very cool and unique, so I disagree with the change; so yes, it's (was) overpowered, but also it is easily removable because it's (was) just a enchantment.--NeHoMaR 17:03, 12 December 2008 (UTC)

Yeah, i wouldnt say Nerf, It is a Change no doubt. A quite interesting one too, it would be nice to see the kind of builds the community makes with this skill now. allthough considering the Negative rap it seems to be getting already, i wouldnt be suprised if Anet Caves in an Reverts it within two weeks... wait its the Holiday season.... they'll probably be takeing a break, so i give more 4-6 weeks...Its almost as if Anet is trying to revamp the minion master mechanic but as they've decided not to make any NEW skills they're experimenting with existing ones hopeing the Community will welcome the change, didnt go too well last time the did it(Order Of Undead, which was an awsome change btw but the community just wasnt feeling it).99.204.103.151 17:51, 12 December 2008 (UTC)Auron Bushi

Wtb shorter recharge plx. ~~Igor

I don't think it's a nerf. It's actually interesting, this skill now guarantees you will have a minion, while giving you +1 in death. Plus this spell is the fastest minion raising skill and will make other minion necros useless. Even though it's still not the best, it is worth trying. 75.9.232.33 18:59, 12 December 2008 (UTC)

It's not nerfed, it's changed. Now, whether or not changed for the better is up for debate, but I want the old, and better AotL back. Death Magic +1 is a waste, the only decent thing about this skill that's good is that it steals corpses from others in pvp and/or pve. --Master Saji 19:39, 12 December 2008 (UTC)

I like the change to this skill. Gets rid of N/D mystic regen gimmicks and gives minion masters another option. Try using it as Rt/N + Explosive Growth.--The preceding unsigned comment was added by User:72.71.212.219 (talk).

Not sure why its seen as a gimmick. Its not even one of the required skills for the N/D build.- TheRave (talk) 19:48, 12 December 2008 (UTC)

It's a gimmick because it relies on the fact that most of the players in AB where it's most used are dumbasses who won't bring the enchantment removals necessary to kill it. And, while it is true that it wasn't strictly needed for the N/D build, it was still pretty strong with it. --Jette 17:41, 24 December 2008 (UTC)

Hero AI

It would be nice if my MM hero used this correctly. Basically, this should be cast as soon as it's available. Right now heroes cast this when a battle begins. With 16 Death Magic, the duration is longer than the recharge so it should always be up. That way, all the other DM skills benefit from that nice +1. 65.12.217.95 17:42, 12 December 2008 (UTC)

I realize this is late but the comment says hero uses this skill incorrectly (which is also reflected on the talk page), but the title of this section fits my question. Can I use this in PvE without micromanagement, or should I take another elite for my necromancer MM hero? As I read through the other comments, I'm getting a flavor of the PvP likes / dislikes but being noob player (really only doing PvE) and not liking to micromanage anything if i can help it, I humbly ask my question here. Ty for your kind helps cecil 05:37, 13 March 2010 (UTC)

Your hero will use it like an enchantment and a corpse targeting skill. That means he will cast it only if there are corpses within earshot and the enchantment is not already active on him. Not the best way to use this skill, but if you only have one necromancer hero in your party it's still viable since there will be enough corpses between those intervals. He won't use the skill if it's still active so he won't ever gain the +1 Death Magic this skill gives onto itself, however. Still, it's not a bad skill even if used the way heroes do. If you want maximum effect you'll have to micromanage it though. — Why 12:09, 14 March 2010 (UTC)

Explosive growth

Anyone thought of combining this with Explosive Growth? Might be interesting. 90.149.239.21 19:40, 12 December 2008 (UTC)

Unfortunely, you need corpses, so there won't be many foes left to AoE-hit.reanor 21:10, 12 December 2008 (UTC)

I don't think you need corpses, because no matter what you still will summon 1 minion whether there is a corpse or not. 64.173.73.250 22:12, 12 December 2008 (UTC)

How about using it in Jade Quarry just after having lost a shrine? This way there will be corpses left from your team's NPCs ready. 90.149.239.21 01:03, 13 December 2008 (UTC)

I think this will remake explosive growth build. Have a hero with Aura of the Lich, Explosive Growth, Death Nova and Signet of Creation. Raise them all with Aura of the Lich, call Signet of Creation within 30 seconds of battle, place Death Nova on as many as you can in that time, boom. Whatever dies as a consequence, recall Aura of the Lich and start all over again, hitting them with Explosive Creation. --81.208.60.206 00:27, 15 December 2008 (UTC)

Army

Gogo insta-army. Only 15 energy and two seconds away. 71.251.50.132 03:46, 13 December 2008 (UTC)

Can you go over 10 minions now?

Yes. With 20 death magic, you can get a maximum of 12. Items can boost your death magic to 21 for one skill, but obviously that's not long enough to keep the minion around, and it's not enough for an extra anyway. To get over 17 death magic, though, you'll need to use consumable items and/or shrine blessings, though. --Jette 07:56, 13 December 2008 (UTC)

"But what annoys me more is this pattern I see emerging of completely and utterly changing skills. Surely completely changing a skills functionality is not good. If they want alternative skills they should add more skills or at least alter the ones that are literally never used (I bet there's a couple of necro elites that are never ever used).- TheRave 16:48, 12 December 2008 (UTC)"

If ANet would just add more and more skills without fixing those that have issues then GW would suck, and it'd have 99% of unnecessary skills. The reason behind creating a skill like this was to alter AotL to something that can be used beyond lame N/D tanks, not to create a lovely skill like this <3. AotL wasn't good for anything else than Necro/Derv builds, and as such needed a fix.--Chaos Messenger 09:12, 13 December 2008 (UTC)

Changing a useless skill that nobody uses is the same thing as adding a new skill. Maybe not theoretically, but it is in practice. 145.94.74.23 18:02, 13 December 2008 (UTC)

Comparing this to Animate Flesh Golem

Animate Flesh Golem:

PRO:

• Much higher level minion
• Minion is reusable
• Recharges faster
• Lower energy cost

CON:

• Single minion
• Longer cast time

Aura of the Lich:

PRO:

• Potentially raises a lot of minions - always one regardless of present corpses
• +1 to Death Magic, maintainable at 16 Death Magic and higher
• Shorter cast time

CON:

• Potentially raises a lot of minions - nothing guaranteed beyond the first one.
• Minions are identical to regular bone horrors
• The +1 to Death Magic is an enchantment effect (contrary to the effect from Double Dragon)
• Longer recharge
• Higher energy cost
• Harder acquisition

Overall I (but that's personal) wouldn't pick this over Flesh Golem. (Sorry for the longish post) Clan Yumemiru 10:32, 13 December 2008 (UTC)

Agreed on those. Another CON for AotL is that if you cast it while having other minions it might kill them all. And as some PRO's for AotL is that you can have it as the only summon skill in your bar, perhaps with Arcane Echo, and it can also be used outside of minions-only builds. AotL+Rising Bile=140 damage. --Chaos Messenger 10:58, 13 December 2008 (UTC)

Another con for AotL and pro for Flesh Golem is Bloodstained Insignia. As sole minion skill I wouldn't pick this either. Rather, things like Shambling Horrors or Vmapiric Horrors come to mind - sparing the elite slot; Rising Bile is an interesting choice, but the damage is highly conditional. I'd rather pick skills like Deathly Swarm/Chills or Bitter Chills instead. Again, personal preference ... Clan Yumemiru 14:54, 13 December 2008 (UTC)

Added to that the fact that, in the sorts of places where this new AoTL is likely to see most use (namely PvE, and CM), a target is very unlikely to stay alive for the full 20 seconds with the result that Rising Bile doesn't work well. Still, I suppose as an addition damage-dealer on a Siege Turtle it could be useful, but then something like Well of the Profane is ahead of RB in the "turtle killer" stakes. Cynical 15:06, 13 December 2008 (UTC)

Why the fuck would you take Flesh Golem? Mini Me 19:36, 13 December 2008 (UTC)

Just... no. If you can't raise more than 1 or 2 minions with this, you fail. It's quite possibly the easiest-to-use MMing skill ever conceived. Harder acquisition... just lol. People that can't cap an elite skill fucking fail it the game. Higher energy cost I think not. This is THE MOST ENERGY-EFFICIENT MINION SKILL IN THE GAME. Let's see you raise an army for 15. And how the hell is having inherent +1 Death Magic a con? It's an enchantment... are enchantments bad for you? Way to compare a Necromancer MMing skill to an Ele PBAoE skill. -- 75.175.21.134 21:11, 13 December 2008 (UTC)

Hm, let's eee: Strip Enchantment, Rip Enchantment, Drain Enchantment - need I go on ? There went your +1 to Death Magic advantage; and 45 seconds recharge is a long time. Double Dragon's bonus to Fire Magic is NOT subject to being stripped in ANY way short of death. I can get basic level 18 bone horrors for 10 energy at 5 seconds recharge without wasting my elite slot too; why would I pick this skill ? On the off chance that by the time the battle I'm engaged is (nearly) over and there's sufficient corpsicles around to raise the army that I no longer need anymore ?

Energy efficiency with a Necromancer counts for little (given Soul Reaping); the skill's effect is mediocre at best given the non-elite alternatives. Your comment on the skill's acquisition, and its tone, speaks volumes - of both your (lack of) knowledge of this specific case and your disdainful attitude - which I'll waste no more words on. If you wish to discuss the (de)merits of this skill or any other, I'm happy to match wits and words with you, but any descent into hubris I will not tolerate. Discussion closed as far as I am concerned. Clan Yumemiru 21:39, 13 December 2008 (UTC)

One concern is that this skill has to be used after at least nine enemies have died for maximum effectiveness. If there's any enemy around with corpse stealing skills, you would be unlikely to use this to its full potential, given how said enemy would take most of the corpses away before 9 of them are available. In other hand, Animate Flesh Golem can be annoying if in a large area with few bodies, as you would have to periodially stop to reanimate the Flesh Golem. Erasculio 21:56, 13 December 2008 (UTC)

The ability to have an enchantment removed isn't a con. That's simply the cease-existence of a pro. Hey, let's start calling every enchantment a con because it CAN be stripped. -- 75.175.21.134 22:03, 13 December 2008 (UTC)

Additionally, if Soul Reaping counts as all the energy management you need (as you claim), then 15-energy cost isn't a problem either. As for acquisition, this is PvE. Even if the boss DOES share spawn points with three others, all are located in close proximity to each other. The only skill it takes to cap AoL is the ability to c-space and patience enough for a [possible] 15-20 minute cap if the spawn doesn't go your way. Alternatively, just use a tome. -- 75.175.21.134 22:11, 13 December 2008 (UTC)

First of all, Flesh golem is bad. I mean, you can only have one of them, and it is stronger than a normal minion, but not so much that it justifies an elite slot. The way GW stays revolving around skill is the POTENTIAL for great things on high cost skills. If used correctly, this is the most powerful, efficient minion spell in the game. you can get 10 minions for 15 energy, something that would normally cost above 75. Clearly much better than everyone is making it out to be 206.53.17.64 05:43, 14 December 2008 (UTC)

Lol, Yumemiru has never played MM in his life :D and obviously he has also not tried out the new AotL. What comes to corpse denial, any MM suffers from it, not just the AotL ones. As such, if someone steals your corpses, kill the mutha. AotL makes bigger minions which is gud, and although AotL get's stripped the minions created during it are still lvl 19. Also, if you already have max amount of minions and cast AotL with lots of corpses around you it you hit the Soul Reaping cap and net gain 20+ energy. --Chaos Messenger 12:20, 14 December 2008 (UTC)

It's missing some advantages for AotL.

• First, it's an energy battery. Rather than spend 15 to 25 energy resurrecting single corpses which when they die will give you at best 12 energy, you're potentially gaining a lot of energy using this. Perhaps not all at once but eventually. Most MMs with enough points in Soul Reaping don't have problems with energy, but this will probably give an abundance of energy even. Means you can afford to support not only Death Magic and Soul Reaping, but a third attribute as well (and I know a few nice Curse hexes that I'd like to equip).
• Second, you forget that in pve, the benefit from a mm largely doesn't come from damage but from numbers. Foes which do 100-150 damage per hit are well worth having a wall of minions inbetween. In hard mode, the AI is usually fairly smart when it comes to targetting, and you almost have to block their path before they'll give up going after the squishy target. Having 3 minions and a Flesh Golem (oops I mean 2, because they just killed another one of yours), is not going to cut it. I'd prefer having 8 minions in a second and be happy knowing that every 100-150 damage strike done to one of my minions is not one made to my monk.
• Third, I think I could probably get away with just Aura of the Lich and one quick-recharge minion spell to have a constant supply of minions. It means I don't have to equip three or four minions spells. This in combination to the fact that I can split points into a third attribute, this skill's looking better all the time, isn't it?

--81.208.60.206 00:46, 15 December 2008 (UTC)

I kinda agree with the original statements. It can't be stressed more that this skill POTENTIALLY gives you an "insta-army." First of all, do not forget that for this to be viable for instant-army creation, you actually need quite a few corpses. This is a down-side to all MM builds, and often ignored for reasons I will mention later; however this cannot be ignored for the AotL minion build because having a bulk of corpses to exploit *at once* is most of the point of this skill. Jagged Bones (w/ bone minions) and Flesh Golem builds (benchmarks of MM might and bombing) do not need a whole slew of corpses to get themselves ready; all they need is about 1-3 and then comes forth a stream of minions over a decent period of time, granted, with higher energy costs for the jagged build. AND the types of minions are arguably better for their uses; for the purposes of providing a QUICK wall of meat bags and bombing, bone minions are perfect -- especially if they give rise to jagged horrors (couple them with shambling horrors too); Flesh Golems need no justification. Bone Horrors obviously have their pros (versus bone minions), but they're like the carte blanche of minions: nothing particular or weak about them, just bland. I guess that would be fine for an "instant army", but by the time an AoTL master gets their army going, they'd already be bleeding and poisoned from a jagged bones master's minions or under some heavy blows from a Flesh Golem, whereas all they got to show is at least 1 bone horror, if that. Except for HA, the army growth of staple MM builds are safer and *guaranteed* over AotL. Don't get me wrong though, the pros are enough to warrant using this build but I'm just saying that the cons are enough that THE OTHER MM (Bomber) BUILDS WON'T GO AWAY. Now, a combination of these minion builds in a team of 8 sounds interesting though... looks like sabway is about to meet its match? (Btw, I used AotL in the past for a D/N "tank" hero... not a N/D tank... I must've been living in a mirror world, lol). Jarrkha 19:58, 16 December 2008 (EST)

If the other guy would have corpses why can't the AotL guy? you're modifying statistics to suit it. AotL MM casts it, now the other guy has several minions on him before he can cast the spell for one, that's how it works out, not Fleshy MM has tons of minions that he got from the corpse fairy beforehand. I've played MM many, many times before and AotL is so much better, it's literly like 10 times faster and more energy efficient. "but by the time an AoTL master gets their army going, they'd already be bleeding and poisoned from a jagged bones master's minions or under some heavy blows from a Flesh Golem, whereas all they got to show is at least 1 bone horror", think about what I just said and reread that, how could the longer cast times of multiple minions somehow finish before the AotL MM gets his army going in 2 SECONDS. Let me repeat that, 2 SECONDS. That's the time to get the army going, not the 25 seconds it sounds like you're talking about, so your example is very, very skewed.

The newest exploit in HoH

So i have been watching (B Key) the PvP thing and what i see in HoH, 80% of players are necros, all of them (at least the ones i have seen) use this Elite skill. Raising a bunch of allies that makes any other profession almost useless (minions attack, take health away from players making monks lose energy and when out of energy they are useelss and die, unless they stay way back, meaning Melee players are useless now. I don't go there as i don't even have the required island yet, however this violates my quote "reliable-but-fair game", and everyone knows that this skill now is very powerfull, even with 15 energy cost it's nothing, as it will raise lots of minions, knowing that to raise only bone minions uses 15 energy already. So, i think this skill should have at least a PvP version, i don't have suggestions simply because i don't PvP because i'm a noob at it lol, so i think if ANet thinks to change this to PvP they will have better choices that any player, as they globally know all skills and the game mechanics. Those who haven't seen yet, just go in-game and press B key, then watch Hall of Heroes section. Anyway, go ahead, complain about what i said, however complaining against the truth doesn't change it. --Inflame 12:24, 14 December 2008 (UTC)

Ok this skill is NOT over powered having a team of 8 necros all with this elite is not good and then if they all go /Me for arcane echo then their skill choices are limited. And what happens when every single minion dies from aoe on the alter, then you have a bunch of pointless necros running around with limited defence.Lodgeinator 12:57, 14 December 2008 (UTC)

Obviously this is theorycrafting or else Inflame wouldn't see them in HoH all the time, don't you think? - Well, my advise until it gets hopefully nerfed into oblivion very fast (are they employing devs now that lived the last 3 years under a stone? This was foreseeable for miles)... bring Verata's Aura on one or even two chars, additionally Verata's Gaze if you use a hero. It's a very dirty workaround for the moment, but works even with low Death Magic if Minions ball somewhere. You may destroy half of the enemy's army with one skill only. --82.82.169.97 13:03, 14 December 2008 (UTC)

PS. it is exploited in RA as well, ppl sync with 2 necs, raise an army before the game (saccer!) and spam Barbs and Defile Defenses etc. for free with a Cultist's Fervor nec. No way to win against this. --82.82.169.97 13:05, 14 December 2008 (UTC)

Bring one person with an arcane echo Ray of Judgement and the minions pretty much will all die at once and since Aura of the lich takes more than 2x as long as ray of judgement to recharge they'll never win because their minions will die very shortly after being raised and clumping together.(marsc 13:16, 14 December 2008 (UTC))

Bring bad necro skills or underpowered smiting elites to specifically counter the overpowered minion hexway? You guys need to theorycraft less and play more. - Auron 13:17, 14 December 2008 (UTC)

If so many people are using Aura of the Lich Parties(so much so that HoH is filled with them), one person with a Skillbar which normally wouldn't work but in this case will completley null the other teams offensive capabilities, leaving them with death magic hexes is going to do better than a normal team would do against them.(marsc 13:41, 14 December 2008 (UTC))

Nice one Auron, we don't need to play more, maybe you do. You know, if everyone uses this new skill in all kind of PvE/PvP forms, should we 'play more' like you say? Wouldn't all be the same? If so why bother playing the same hunderd of billion of times? You know, people tend to bother about repetitive content fast. Like i said people can complain about the truth, but can't turn the truth into a lie, eh. Anyway ANet is not blind, they already did an update to it, and i believe more will come. --Inflame 14:22, 14 December 2008 (UTC)

Having 8 new minions to smash your party's face in is excessive. Having around 12-16 from Echos, Mimicry, etc, is beyond excessive. The way to nerf this is to change the functionality. Maybe make it work so only one necromancer can use this. 98.226.112.109 17:13, 14 December 2008 (UTC)

Inflame, since Lingering Curse got buffed too, most balanced teams take a curser. You should be able to find 5 points for Death Magic for Verata's Aura. Most gimmick teams have RoJ smiters which can destroy an entire army in 1 spell if done right. Monks also have extreme channel tanking, and sometimes you can spam Heal Party without losing energy. If you die, get a good prot. (I'm talking about HA here, I don't gvg and normally it is coupled with a Deathly Swarm spike which is much more effective in HA) Dragnmn talk cont 17:25, 14 December 2008 (UTC)

Well, i'm glad you talk about Lingering Curse, more reasons you give to me. While some animate minions, the others spam that curse skill, which makes monks even more useless, even with nice energy management, that simply isn't enough, you know, i already said, i don't play PvP, just watch (B key), anyway we both know that HoH has 3 teams, even with Channeling helping energy, it doesn't help from interrupts/knock downs, and even less from 2 teams spamming Lingering Curse on you, knowing too that necros also have AoE hexes, making harder for monks to keep the team alive in a short/medium term. With this, even the players that think quick they can't do anything against a huge army around them. It's like going on a Elite mission in PvE (in HM) and aggro 2 mobs with a total of 16 foes, where at least 2 of those 16 use Aura of the Lich, Blood of the master, etc. Anyway, i only see players of High ranked teams using this, maybe the others haven't noticed yet lol. Also, read the comment above yours, it explain better what i'm trying to say about this skill. Thanks. --Inflame 17:44, 14 December 2008 (UTC)

Minions counters are particularly strong. A lot of people already use Dervishes and Paragons that use their mastery, both which offer excellent skills for countering armies of minions. Mesmers have a decent counter for them, although it's more appreciated on spirits, and Ritualists and Monk have the occasional anti-summoned creature skill that could be worth bringing (I'm sure RoJ is popular in this fantasy HA of yours as well). Maybe you should try going to the Skill Feedback page and offering something useful, like a skill change, instead of coming to a skill's talk page and screaming "nurf nurf plz dis kil me in ha o noes". Bathory 22:59, 20 January 2009 (UTC)

Bug

This skill autogives one minion no matter what--70.105.17.14 15:40, 14 December 2008 (UTC)

It's supposed to, it gives 1 Bone Horror + an extra one for each corpse that is explotied.(marsc 15:43, 14 December 2008 (UTC))

Unnatural Signet, Holy Spear, Banishing Strike, Hundred Blades (yeah, I know, this one is a bad example but warrior's can't counter anything anyways), Verata's Gaze/Aura (inconvenient, but necros will play AotL anyways lol), Smiting Prayers..... Ritualists (wow, ever heard of those?) have plenty of skills to destroy summoned creatures of which several give more advantage than just getting rid of one minion) omg, stop being so helpless and stop QQ'ing.. Take simple counters with you and go screw the noob MM's.

And what comes to Lingering Curse.. overpowered lol... Let's go nerf every skill except for Chilblains or something... Chilblain can't get any worse. -.- --Chaos Messenger 18:10, 14 December 2008 (UTC)

There are many counters to undead but few of these are actual useful. Some may have a niche in AB or RA, but most Team Builds (either 4 or 8 player slots) are packed with badly needed skills anyway (like, about 100 hex remove skills now :-/ ). You can't dedicate a whole player for removing undead all the game e.g. with Unnatural Signet. First it removes one player from the game just to kill undeads and second you will have a disadvantage against a balanced team. Lose - lose situation. However, I recommended Verata's Aura myself since this is the only acceptable semi-counter IMHO. One skill slot should be sparable.

BTW, if Lich Way learns to use a Cultist's Fervor necro to spam Barbs, Faintheartedness, Enfeebling Blood and Defile Defenses without any need for energy, then the problem will start to raise its ugly head. --82.82.176.65 11:48, 15 December 2008 (UTC)

I'm sure you can stop 8 minion mastersfrom abusing this if they already got 50 minions when the battle starts anyhow gl with it Lilondra *gale* 09:27, 17 December 2008 (UTC)

2x RoJ, RoD, Smite Hex, Smite Condition, Castsig, SoH, Rend. GLHF. --76.25.197.215 09:32, 17 December 2008 (UTC)

Or have a front liner in your team use necro secondary and just bring Verata's aura with no points in death magic. They will steal the entire army, then have most of it die due to their low attribute that controls how many they can have. 50 minions down to a handful on your side, all for one skill slot and some planning against easily anticipated tactics.

Yes, lets gimp a frontliner because one in every four teams is running a gimmick. An excellent idea crafted from the mind of a true PvEer. Misery 10:33, 17 December 2008 (UTC)

Not to mention the minimum of atb level 5. --Chaos Messenger 13:34, 17 December 2008 (UTC)

Has anyone ever tried this tactic? I have. Bad idea. Verata's sacrifices 1/3 of you HP. Also, I was a warrior, and seriously, there are better niche things you could do, like a stance that reduces fire damage, and even that isn't used at all. I recomend a dervish with Banishing Strike, since that will decimate an undead army, AND deal damage to all players around you, and it works vs spirit spammers. StatMan 21:18, 17 December 2008 (UTC)

Yes, lets gimp a frontliner because one in every four teams is running a gimmick. -- Mafaraxas 04:38, 18 December 2008 (UTC)

Dood,were not gimping at all we run 4 smitemonks gimmickz for REALZ Lilondra *gale* 08:32, 19 December 2008 (UTC)

Smite fucking way. People don't quite understand the point of having a ton of minions in Lichway. It's not for raw damage output; minions are easy to kite and give monks huge surplus of energy through channel tanking. Teams can spend the whole match spamming Heal Party and not run out of energy. Lichway minions are there to be huge energy batteries to their team and create huge bodyblock/rubberband problems to piss off relic runners and catch people in the build's AoE spike. --75.175.2.66 19:50, 31 December 2008 (UTC)

Signet of Creation With 0 Spawning Power = all minions dead in 30 sec :) Aartist21 05:46, 5 January 2009 (UTC)

You'll be dead by then, too. Vili 05:48, 5 January 2009 (UTC)

You wanted quick way to kill everything so here it goes xD Aartist21 16:55, 5 January 2009 (UTC)

Getting killed by lichway in 30 seconds. Pro HAer much? --75.175.2.66 22:59, 8 January 2009 (UTC)

that note...

"Extremely useful to quickly raise an army of minions after a party wipe, especially since the bodies of the party members can be used to make minions." When the party has wiped you're dead too, and when the party is alive you're alive too... --Chaos Messenger 12:39, 20 December 2008 (UTC)

 Yeah, when you respawn, cast it.--98.197.83.107 23:10, 29 December 2008 (UTC)

When you respawn=everyone else respawns=no corpses of party members left=no use of AotL....... --Chaos Messenger 00:08, 30 December 2008 (UTC)

Lively Was Naomei Vili 00:11, 30 December 2008 (UTC)

And does what? Resurrect everyone leaving no corpse unless you flee and get killed elsewhere. Ɲoɕʈɋɽɕɧ 00:13, 30 December 2008 (UTC)

"If you are holding this when you die, you drop it and are resurrected." Run away. Vili 00:17, 30 December 2008 (UTC)

Remove the note? --Chaos Messenger 00:17, 30 December 2008 (UTC)

I'd say remove the note. StatMan 15:28, 30 December 2008 (UTC)

I'm pretty sure what the person meant was, when you're party is almost wiped, if the survivor resses the MM first, he can make lots of minions in one cast before the others are ressed. --Jette 17:40, 30 December 2008 (UTC)

I don't see how this is important. Whenever there are many corpses, you can get the same effect. How is this important for a party wipe? How is it different than just a bunch of corpses after you clear a pull? I guess they are saying "If you get raised first after a wipe/near wipe, you can cast this, and get back a part of your minion army fast." However, why is this important?

I did the above comment. Also, I removed the note. There is no special reason this is more useful when the party wipes, or near wipes, compared to having an equal number of corpses from enemies. No one should bring this for the purpose of using it after a party wipe, but they probably would bring it for quickly building up an army. This skill also doesn't do anything that good, except use less time, compared to being the first to rez in a wipe, then raising your allies with another MM skill. The note seems to be written by someone who thought they had a good point, and sort of overemphasized its importance. It can be useful for quickly building an army when your party dies, but that really doesn't merit a note. StatMan 06:57, 5 January 2009 (UTC)

Any MM can see there are unexploited corpses and as such cast AotL. /end discussion. ---Chaos- 18:21, 5 January 2009 (UTC)