Talk:Battery

Not disambig

I've removed the {{disambig}} tag and updated the article to reflect its status as one of the team roles covered by this wiki. It was frustating to have the {{team Roles nav}} point to an article that merely provided links to a variety of skills. – Tennessee Ernie Ford (TEF) 17:22, 1 December 2011 (UTC)

Comparison table

At the moment, the comparison table is not of much use: if you haven't used/compare the skills yourself, it's hard to glean any useful info from the current presentation; the table adds little for those already familiar with the options.

Before overhauling the table, I'd like to know what sorts of data people would like to see compared. For example, the table could answer questions like these:

• Which skill(s) provide(s) the greatest benefit if it can be maintained constantly?
• Which provide the best value if the attribute is low rank?
• Which can be reliably used by a hero in a low-risk battle? In a high-risk area? (e.g. touch sacrifice skills are risky, since the hero has a tendency to rush into the scrum; wells and shouts are safer).
• Under what circumstances are maintained enchantments more effective? (And is one better than the others?)

A lot of veterans will be able to answer these instinctively (although it might be helpful to see the numbers); perhaps there are other questions that they'd like to see addressed. – Tennessee Ernie Ford (TEF) 17:32, 1 December 2011 (UTC)

There's been no comments positive or negative about the table; although the idea is good, it's still incomplete in its current form and imo, shouldn't be on a mainpsace article. So, unless there are strong objections, I'm going to move it to this talk page so it can be further developed. – Tennessee Ernie Ford (TEF) 16:29, 6 January 2012 (UTC)

Comparisons of any of these four examples would be immensely helpful to wide-variety of folks; I spend way too much of my time FAQ'ing in-game to allies as it is. ^_^ You have an optimizer's knack (i.e. making articles/proposals better) so I have no objections. --Falconeye 21:14, 11 January 2012 (UTC)

"The Power Is Yours!"

This skill used to give instant +10 energy while the user suffered energy degeneration. Only in that time this skill was seen as a Battery option. Nowadays +1 energy regeneration for 3 seconds its a joke. Even if this skill was listed after the nerf, it is still incorrect. Yoshida Keiji talk 21:39, 21 March 2012 (UTC)

"Only in that time this skill was seen as a Battery option...Even if this skill was listed after the nerf, it is still incorrect"

Unfortunately, the term Battery gets used loosely: it could mean something as robust as BiP, skills that are great in specific contexts (Blood Ritual, Balt Spirit), and things that provide a non-zero boost (e.g. TPIY). So, it's appropriate to include it in the article because people (correctly or not) think it belongs.

However, as I've mentioned above, I think the article does a poor job of distinguishing between the various power-boosting skills. If rewritten to emphasize utility, TPIY would be relegated to a footnote (e.g. useful to trigger echoes and extend skills that benefit from shouts, but at best, provides 8 energy for a party of 8). Personally, I've stopped using the term because of the ambiguity. – Tennessee Ernie Ford (TEF) 01:49, 22 March 2012 (UTC)

I spend 80% of my game time in Elite Areas and Speed Clears. When a necro wants to join, he/she doesn't ask "Do you need a Battery?". Instead, people will say: "Do you need a BiP?". So I already know the player is asking me about a Blood is Power position but still imagine it could be any variant. However if somebody were to come with TPIY I think everybody would laugh and pm-me to kick from the party due to noobness.

So I checked the template at bottom Team Roles and Builds specially the Particular type. Currently we have in display: Beast Master, Bomber, Toucher, Trapper, Battery, Bonder, Imbagon, Infuser, Orders, Cripshot, Hexway, MM and SS. Some of these can be recognised by a particular skill such as Contagion, Blood is Power, "Save Yourselves!", Infuse Health, Orders and Cripshot...these last two un-popular imo. But not the others. And I start to get nervous when I see these long life concepts are still stubbed...

TEF is usually seen bookkeeping and myself performing overhaul cutdowns. So we are both awared of how wiki pages easily get bloated...and I start to remember all sorts of media talks, speeches and broadcast about the "Information Age", time when we have a lot of data that practically chokes us. I have seen people refer to it as "Text Wall". So besides providing the data of all that could "belong" I think a good orientation is needed so that the reader ends up with wiki pointing at the right direction. I believe TPIY is totally misleading and I already fear people coming to tell..."-"TPIY" is a good skill...because is listed in Wiki...-". Which is the thought that motivated my edit (my sub-conscience is still worried about the GoLE case).

This page starts with "A battery is a party member whose role is to supply energy or adrenaline to the rest of the team."

If we say "to the rest of the team", then Energy Boon is incorrect. EDIT: 20secs recharge is not as spammable.

Balthazar Spirit and Succor should go to "Bonding" if you ask me.

Then the rest of the "Job" description is about a particular build usage of BiP rather the general idea of a Battery.

Considering the vast majority of players within the GW community are noobs, "shoving" every related information in the face to those who need a quick reference or short guidance will not help at the end. Let's aim for quality. Yoshida Keiji talk 08:18, 22 March 2012 (UTC)

Silly to use though it may be, TPiY is a battery skill. As for Balth Spirit and Succor, while they function the same way as typical bonder skills, bonder focuses on benefiting health and armor (in this, I argue that the bonder page is unaccurate in its list) while battery focuses on energy and adrenaline (in this, Succor counts as both a bonder skill and a battery skill). Konig/talk 12:25, 22 March 2012 (UTC)

Apologies for the tl;dr - the section title says "Available skills" - so TPIY is a valid listing. Going along the same vein of thought, why isn't "Never Give Up!" listed here? File:User Chieftain Alex Chieftain Signature.jpg Chieftain Alex 13:51, 22 March 2012 (UTC)

What is "tl;dr"? Yoshida Keiji talk 16:02, 22 March 2012 (UTC)

"tl;dr" = "too long; didn't read". As for this page, a lot of it seems a bit redundant to the lists on Energy, especially for Energy Regeneration and Energy Gain on allies. --JonTheMon 16:14, 22 March 2012 (UTC)

(EC) My argument above is that "Battery" is a term that is misused. We document the game and how it's played, not the game we would like to see played.

However, what I'd really like us to focus on is how to overhaul the article, not what to tweak. For starters, the article already says, "In practice, this almost always means a Necromancer primary running ...(BiP)." So let's separate BiP from the main list and clearly state that the rest are other skills that provide some energy.

Second, we need to dump the current chart and replace it with something that helps people see strengths/weaknesses of each skill. It doesn't help that the current details are inaccurate (B's Spirit provides energy conditional on taking damage, so its /s varies considerably; it's not static). Energy Boon's boost is available only 1x/20s, but it cannot be lost due to enchantment stripping. And, as noted, the chart should make it obvious that TPIY is better used to fuel skills that benefit from shouts (e.g. echo-triggering) and its energy-boost is merely a fringe benefit.

I'm not opposed to Jon's implied suggestion that we move most of the article, due to redundancy with Energy regeneration – Tennessee Ernie Ford (TEF) 16:41, 22 March 2012 (UTC)