Talk:Defile Defenses

Skill Tweaks 07/26/07

• Defile Defenses: 30..120 damage 5..20s -> 30..105 damage 10s please post feedback on new numbers here. ~Izzy @-'---- 23:14, 26 July 2007 (UTC)

I still think it should remove other hexes off the target. Right now it's a pretty strong cover hex with a strong effect. I'm afraid you'll end up nerfing it further just because of heavy hex teams. --TimeToGetIntense 23:22, 26 July 2007 (UTC)

i like this skill. Its most effective when a target blocks a regular attack because of aegis or ward against melee. I think it will add some nice pressure and i think we have always needed something to punish passive party wide block skills like aegis. At least 1 cast of aegis on the other side of the radar will not so easily save a monk whos teetering on the brink of death with a warrior on him anymore. You cant keep it on more than 2 targets at once so generally it will either be cast on monks or midline characters, i dont think it will be that useful as a cover hex to be honest because it only lasts 10 seconds and gets removed through random wanding and/or attacking anyway. But its difficult to judge hexes until you reveal all the changes you have in store for other hexes.87.194.81.41 01:03, 27 July 2007 (UTC) Lorekeeper

I think it would add too much pressure to a hex team. --TimeToGetIntense 02:32, 27 July 2007 (UTC)

Hexes are supposed to be rebalanced too. Dunno if you saw Ensign's list, which Izzy said he had many similar ideas in mind for next balance, but there should be many more short-medium duration/recharge hexes overall so it will likely change the hex balance as a whole and also make cover hexes less of an issue. Now this is much less interesting as a cover hex, which is good, and still deals enough damage to be worth it when it triggers. That 'strip all other hexes' idea seems quite unnecessary to me and needlessly limitating. I would've prefer old damage and 6-8s recharge, but this should work too. Still a great skill! Patccmoi 02:45, 27 July 2007 (UTC)

Still a great skill, indeed.--Skye Marin 03:39, 27 July 2007 (UTC)

Fair points. Just remember my idea if hexway abuses this. It would be sad to see this skill made useless. I'm getting excited at the idea of a Curses necro being useful in balanced. --TimeToGetIntense 04:34, 27 July 2007 (UTC)

EDIT: NVM. Good change, exactly what was needed. Living Parasite 07:22, 27 July 2007 (UTC)

Curses Necros are already useful in balanced you know. I saw some top guilds running a Curse Necro as solo hexer in the team (well, had Dom Mes with Diversion/Shame and Hydro runner, but that's it). The current curse bar is actually pretty versatile with a solid mix of degen pressure and attacker control and sometimes useful party utility, and can spam enough so that hexes get to stick a bit before they get removed (and removing still use up energy, so it's not like you're doing nothing). If what you consider a balance team is supposed to have no dedicated hexer at all in it, then maybe you should revise that definition first. Patccmoi 07:26, 27 July 2007 (UTC)

Really nice skill imo, that could fit pretty nicely into an average Curse Necro in GvG or whatever as a nice pressuring issue and also to help against Aegis. Moreover it can be used as additional damage for spike purpose on specific targets whereas curse necromancers heavily rely on degen rather than damage. That's a perfect skill imo and i don't think it will be abused by hex heavy teams. I mean Sins love running Expose Defences nowadays, that will ruin the use of this skill, besides we are talking about hex teams which means little use of physical damage and balanced builds always have something to snare or help kitting it's not like if defence was all about blocking if you consider that Aegis, Shield of Deflection, Guardian, Ward Against Melee are the only currently played skills that help blocking. besides that could get those Aegis chaining, WaM, Blinding Surge and water hexes teams out of there shell instead of keeping defending:p Meta might change a bit if this skill see lots of play 88.122.33.120 07:55, 27 July 2007 (UTC)

Reasonable change, and the duration is non scaling now, the damage could be 10 ... 105 so that you need higher rank in curses to make it powerful.--Hydralisk mk2 09:25, 27 July 2007 (UTC)

I'm wondering about synergies between "Foe cannot block" and "Attack cannot be blocked" skills. If a block would be triggered, does this skill work? Let's use Deadly Riposte as an example. If hit by an attack that can't be blocked, the damage and bleeding still happens.--Skye Marin 21:40, 27 July 2007 (UTC)

O V E R P O W E R E D. Seriously, blocks stack up quite hard. Have this + 2 warriors against a target in for example, Ward Against Melee, you have damage that is like... 2 a 3 times their dps? And that for 1 sec cast, 5 energy, 5 recharge(=spam spam spam). This skill should be nerfed to about 30 damage, or just target foe cannot block(some sort of rigor mortis, only better). 82.74.236.237 16:51, 23 August 2007 (UTC)

This only causes damage once, then it ends. --TimeToGetIntense 06:35, 24 August 2007 (UTC)

Original skill feedback

Nice to see some block counters. But seems really overpowered for that much damage and 5/1/5. --Heelz 01:35, 21 July 2007 (UTC)

I agree, I think the duration is too long for that recharge. You could keep it indefinitely on some people. Erasculio 01:38, 21 July 2007 (UTC)

Its not overpowered because if you notice the block doesnt fail, so they are still prevented from whatever was coming before which could be much more damaging. (Sin chain, Dev Hammer etc.) --ChronicinabilitY 01:56, 21 July 2007 (UTC)

I agree with Chronicinability Rakeman 03:15, 21 July 2007 (UTC)

Ditto. It all really depends upon what was comming before that is being blocked as to whether this is overpowered or not.--132.160.31.135 03:37, 21 July 2007 (UTC)

Awesome, I might wanna use this on my Assassin >:) --J0ttem 09:49, 21 July 2007 (UTC)

I disagree with Chronicinability. There are plenty of uses around for this. Imagine a melee hitting one target which has a block skill up. Pre-buff with this, use normal attacks till triggered (should not take more than 1 or 2), 120 damage, with all your skills still ready. --Xeeron 10:09, 21 July 2007 (UTC)

Well in that case its Both good play on part of the warrior and bad play on part of the other target. It's not like they wont see that this is on them, after all it's a hex. And if you're a monk u don't use you're block until you know its going to prevent something worth preventing. Yes it's a powerfull skill, no its not overpowered. It pushes people to use more active defense, and makes passive defense harder, which is always a good thing. --ChronicinabilitY 10:59, 21 July 2007 (UTC)

If you're a monk you don't use your block until you know it's going to prevent something worth preventing???? So you turn off Aegis and never stand in wards when you monk? Can I play your team please!  ;) Errr 11:24, 21 July 2007 (UTC)

"and makes passive defense harder, which is always a good thing." Did you frget to read that part!? And as far as my team goes we dont run wards, and Aegis is in serious need of a Nerf!--ChronicinabilitY 18:09, 21 July 2007 (UTC)

I assume this will read "...and Defile Defenses ends." in the final version. So you'll effectively be able to wand an Aegis'ed target for 100+ armor-ignoring dmg. Nice hex. --Semantic 13:27, 21 July 2007 (UTC)

No need for it to read that way, it already says "The next time" which implies that it triggers once and is gone afterward, like similar hexes. (ie:Mind Wrack)--Midnight08 13:57, 21 July 2007 (UTC)

Midnight08 wins the thread, "the next time" implies only 1 block will result in a successful application of the damage. Hardly overpowered. --  (CoRrRan / talk) 16:54, 21 July 2007 (UTC)

We needed some bang in the Curses line. And we got it. Living Parasite 06:22, 22 July 2007 (UTC)

With 5r this skill will completly supercede Parasitic Bond as a coverhex. 10r for greater justice. -Selber 15:09, 22 July 2007 (UTC)

Cover hexes that remove themselves usually don't work well, even if they have a nasty effect when they trigger. (Aiiane - talk - contribs) 15:11, 22 July 2007 (UTC)

this seems very useful... use gaze of contempt then this on a frenzied defense monk.... 250 dmg... end of frenzied monks.

Frenzied Defense monks don't need any help with ending, anyway. --Edru viransu 19:33, 22 July 2007 (UTC)

Very nice hex, will very likely see play! Patccmoi 06:27, 23 July 2007 (UTC)

Too high damage & too low recharge xor cost. I think this is too good for pressure damage; it's around -10 degen (100 damage/5 sec). This will heavily pressure guardian users too, not just aegis.

This skill is simply TOO good. Why?

• Long Duration
• Short Recharge, Cast
• 114 Armor-Ignoring Damage
• In a great attribute line
• Can serve as a cover hex

This skill shadows Parasitic Bond as a cover hex. The duration needs to be cut to 5-6 and possibly either the damage reduced OR cast time increased by one second. Living Parasite 20:42, 23 July 2007 (UTC)

too conditional "next time skill" & "blocks only" I will never use it

I agree on a lot of these points, I really like the damage thou, I'm thinking of dropping duration to 10s non scaling, and recharge 8 or so. ~Izzy @-'---- 00:49, 24 July 2007 (UTC)

Why don't you make this remove all other Necromancer Hexes from the target? This is a nice solid skill for a balanced team and I think it would be better to just make it not work for heavy hex teams so that curses can have a place in balanced. --TimeToGetIntense 01:49, 24 July 2007 (UTC)

Just make it cost 10 energy and have a 10 second recharge and its balanced. Done25 23:37, 26 July 2007 (UTC)

No need for that, the skill is perfectly fine as is. Remember the target has to actually block an attack for this hex to deal any damage and once the target blocks the hex ends. Necromancers needed another short recharge hex (other than parasitic bond) and another factor to keep in mind although the necromancer profession has a whole entire line set apart mostly for hexes, but still the elementalist profession still has the most useful/best hexes in the game.Highway Man 02:37, 18 January 2008 (UTC)

Are you guys idiots? This skill is clearly overpowered, and if you say otherwise, you abuse it and don't want to have it taken away from you. Yeah, it "still lets them block what they blocked," but the damage of 126 pretty much makes them wish they just took whatever was coming. The fact is, this is completely spammable. This might as well be, "Hex spell. Every time target blocks, they take 126 damage." This spell is of elite status, is the problem. Maybe if it did about 50 less damage, or had a 15 second cooldown tagged on it, it would require some timing and skill to use well. But instead, it's just a brainless durp da durp skill you use every time its CD is up.

I don't use it, it's too damn conditional, the problem is there are better curses to throw on your opponent, insidious parasite beats this in my book. if this did 50 less damage no one would use it, one swing of insidious already beats it. 15 recharge isn't a bad idea, but I really don't think it's necessary, this skill is fine as is. Roflmaomgz 23:16, 1 October 2009 (UTC)

Nerf it? WTH? Necros have been nerfed to death and you still QQ for any decent skill they have. FF nerfed, WoD nerfed, SB nerfed, LC nerfed, WN nerfed, Rip & Rend enchatments nerfed... are we suposed to wand enemies to death? How bout all those overpowered skills out there? What about IoP, assassin KD lame chains, WoH, PS, PnH, Channeling spikes, air/earth spikes and so many other anoyying skills (specialy in RA). The damage from this skill is conditional (though not hard to meet I admit), happens once, is removable as every hex... but it seems that for avery QQing player cover hexes must be of no use appart from... covering hexes. So much nonsense necro hate.... Lhoj 13:29, 2 December 2009 (UTC)

Now 'this' is a Mesmer skill

Puishing someone for blocking is what the Mesmer should be having in their line. If it's going to be a necro skill, make it a spell, not a hex. "If target foe is blocking, that foe takes xx damage" (Terra Xin 01:28, 24 July 2007 (UTC))

I don't think it would work, since blocks are instant. They could shorten the duration, increase the cost or reduce the damage. -- Gordon Ecker 06:16, 24 July 2007 (UTC)

Only thing bloking in GW might be sockets ;) Vazde 15:08, 26 September 2008 (UTC)

It might be worth waiting for Aegis/SOD/etc just so you can trigger this hex, shatter the enchantment and then spike as usual. Just have two sources of deep wound to make sure the spike goes through and you're set. 68.93.182.101 02:51, 24 July 2007 (UTC)

Translation Suggestions

To avoid some bad skill translations i'm opening a comment for new skills so everybody can post their translation suggestions in various languages, have fun :) --YukoIshii 23:54, 1 August 2007 (UTC)

Italian: Difese Corrotte --YukoIshii 23:54, 1 August 2007 (UTC)

Reverted

I'm surprised to see that Defile Defenses duration scales again, to 5...17..20.

Is the damage armor ignoring?

I suppose yes but havn't checked--79.146.19.184 21:17, 2 September 2009 (UTC)

Yes, it is, as almost any damage from necros cept from some cold damage inflicting skills from Death magic line. The rest of skills are either shadow damage or untyped (armor ignoring in both cases) Lhoj 13:36, 2 December 2009 (UTC)

Related Skills

Is Splinter Shot related? Only because it punishes blocking shouldn't be enough to make it related, should it? Then Seeking Blade and Irresistible Blow should be related too. Imo none of these skills is related at all... ~ MarcoDzi 21:34, 12 March 2010 (UTC)

/agree Spotina Talk 14:22, 21 August 2010 (UTC)

How to use in RA

Even if you happen to land on a full caster team you may still be able to trigger this on a monk by feigning un-professionalism and switching to a melee weapon, preferably a hammer or scythe due to the slow attack speed as well as enphasis on un-professionalism and start attacking the monk with it. This often leads the monk to put up his Bonetti's Defense to try to make use of your auto-attacking and when this happens, switch to a ranged weapon, wand or spear depending on the situation, to avoid triggering the Bonnetti's energy restoring effects while still triggering a block and hence activating Defile Defenses, potentially causing a kill. Zencow 08:16, 22 February 2011 (UTC)

Hero usage

Anybody happen to know how well heroes use this? I want to put it on Olias but I'm not sure if hero AI is smart enough to use this effectively. I mean, there are plenty of skills across a few different classes that give block chance but I wouldn't want him using it on an elementalist or dervish or something and since you can't see debuffs on enemies (which is stupid, but that's another matter entirely) it's pretty hard to tell whether or not it's being used correctly. If anybody has some accurate input on this it would be cool to know.

Ideally, a hero--being omniscient and all--should only use this on a target as an immediate response to its use of a skill that provides blocking. However, in simple Isle testing, a hero will use this indiscriminately as it does with many, if not most, curses. That is, it'll get tossed onto any given target whether or not it has any blocking going on which means it'll be a waste of energy a large percentage of the time. A shame, really, as this is the perfect sort of conditional reactionary skill for hero AI to manage effectively. One can always disable and micro, though, while trying to ignore the annoyance of having to do so. Kruhljak 22:43, 1 August 2011 (UTC)

Heroes don't use this skill very effectively and there's no good reason for it. The AI should be basically "human's attacks get blocked -> OK, cast defile defenses." Should be simple enough. ANET, please fix this.--71.185.41.90 23:37, 22 February 2012 (UTC)

Ends when triggered?

Think this could be worth mentioning if it is the case (should be) - - Ruine Eternelle 18:02, 10 June 2020 (UTC)

Generally, whenever skill descriptions say "the next time X occurs..." it means that whatever the effect will be afterwards only triggers once, as is seen in Reversal of Fortune or Xinrae's Weapon. If a description says "whenever X occurs...", then it is implied that the effect that happens afterwards triggers each time X occurs, such as when a target takes damage with Healing Hands. Soldier198 (talk) 18:44, 20 February 2022 (UTC)