Talk:Korvald's Chakram

Technical vs inexact replication

I've made only small corrections in the Replica section after correcting the item description in Korrub's Vision, but I'm not really too pleased with how this current page stands because a non-exact technical replica isn't really a replica at all. The reality is that Korvald's Chakram actually has no possible replica, because it was created in Profecies before inscriptions existed. Its conditional "while using skills" has no counterpart inscription in the current game. Morgaine 23:58, 13 February 2011 (UTC)

PS. My mesmer has both of these items in her possession, so I'm comparing them directly. Morgaine 00:01, 14 February 2011 (UTC)

The wording may be different, but though the function is exactly the same. It's perhaps something for a 'Trivia' section. –aRTy 00:07, 14 February 2011 (UTC)

Edit: No, not even that. Proph and Factions have the long wording, NF and EotN the short. That's it. –aRTy 00:35, 14 February 2011 (UTC)

I've tried to rephrase to show that, although not identical in description, they are identical in impact. Unfortunately, I did this in two edits, making it tricky to revert if you think I did a poor job of it.

I do think we should de-emphasize the differences, since there's no practical difference: there's no way to measure +1 to domination without using skills.  — Tennessee Ernie Ford (TEF) 10:57, 14 February 2011 (UTC)

Isn't there an essential difference between "Dom+1 (Chance: 20%)" and "Dom+1 (20% chance while using skills)", namely that attacking with a Domination Magic weapon has a 20% chance to benefit with the former, but not with the latter? The Nighfall item is more powerful than the Profecies one, because the NF inscription improves the caster's weapon as well. Morgaine 23:12, 14 February 2011 (UTC)

The best that might happen without using skills is that dom=8 becomes dom=9: the focus item would give an energy boost (giving +12 instead of +6). If you also happened to need +1 to meet a wand's damage requirement, you would see a tiny damage gain. The first is easy enough to test at the isle of the nameless: without using skills, keep wanding dummies until you see (or don't see) a +6 energy spike. If the chance while using skills difference is important, then 80% of the time, you'll see base energy, but 20% of the time, you'd see +6.  — Tennessee Ernie Ford (TEF) 01:32, 15 February 2011 (UTC)

Yep, that's how I interpreted the difference as well. Since my mes will be retaining both items, I'll pop over there and test it when I find a moment. Morgaine 02:08, 15 February 2011 (UTC)

I wish you had waited to test before updating the article. At the moment, it's a theory. Although you are correct about the first bit: one description states the dependency explicitly; the other does not. Anyhow, I will await your test results. Good luck.  — Tennessee Ernie Ford (TEF) 02:46, 15 February 2011 (UTC)

The difference stated in the article is simply wrong. I am no ArenaNet employee and consequently can't check the mechanic itself, but concerning the result visible to the player, I can only repeat what I stated above months ago: 'The wording may be different, but though the function is exactly the same.'

I own 'Korrub's Vision', it does not increase the attribute while 'wanding' an enemy, nor does the amount of energy change visibly. In fact, both descriptions don't state exactly what the modifier does: It alters the attribute-bound 'green number(s)' of a used skill with a specific chance. It does not increase your attribute for a short time or something, so you must use a skill to get the chance to see the effect. In addition, it does not affect attribute-specific side effects like spawning power. If you use a 'spawning power +1 (20%)' item, a summoned spirit will never get more health due to the modifier (tested with Agony).

I won't edit the article, since I would not make any difference between the two wordings of the modifier. Handle it however you want to. – 03:35, 1 May 2011 (UTC)

Thanks for doing the research. Let me check to see if I understand your results for using either Korrub's Vision or Korvald's Chakram:

• Wanding: with Domination = 8, there is never a +6 boost in energy.
• Skill use: with Dom = 8, you see skills using Dom=9 ~20% of the time; you still don't see +6 boost in energy.
• Inherent benefits: I don't see how that can be tested using Korrub's Vision or Korvald's Chakram; Domination doesn't enjoy an inherent effect. (Obviously, it is something worth including for the Master of his Domain script and inherent script, since it applies to items with those mods.)

Based on that, the wording I would use is what we had before (more/less):

Korvald's Chakram states a dependence on using skills, while Korrub's Visiondoes not; neither do most of the replicas that can be created. However, there is no practical difference in their impact: any item offering a +1 bonus to an attribute only affects the impact of the skill being used.

Does that fit your experience?  — Tennessee Ernie Ford (TEF) 05:06, 1 May 2011 (UTC)

Yes, point 1 and 2 are correct. In addition to (1), wanding with Domination = 8 and a req 9 domination wand always does the minimum damage. Concerning point 3: I used a 'spawning power +1 (20%)' focus and Agony to test the modifier in general, not this green item in specific. – 14:03, 1 May 2011 (UTC)

Thanks. I stuck to the points about the off-hands b/c that's really one of the few items still dropping that has the unusual text. (Again, it will be worth double-checking items with similar stats, esp. the 'script'.) Are you comfortable with the updated note? Or do you think that's misleading or overly complicated?  — Tennessee Ernie Ford (TEF) 15:28, 1 May 2011 (UTC)

(Reset indent)
"b/c that's really one of the few items still dropping that has the unusual text."
"Proph and Factions have the long wording, NF and EotN the short. That's it." — aRTy 00:35, 14 February 2011 (UTC)
All unique foci from prophecies and factions have the long version, nightfall has the short. Collectors offer foci with this mod in factions only, those have the long version. There is only one green focus from eotn with the mod: The Skinflayer, which has the short version. The inscription 'Master of my domain' generates the short one too.

Staves: There are 14 greens in Factions and one in EotN (Jacado's Staff), all with the long version. Collector items don't have a wrapping by default, so those don't apply here. There are two types of upgrades: 'Of Mastery' and 'Of <Attribute>'. I don't have those at hand, but I think that 'Of <Attribute>' (which is exclusive to uninscr. staves from Proph and Fac) produces the long version while 'Of Mastery' (exclusive to inscr. = NF, EotN and reward chests in generell) produces the short.

I think it's maybe worth a note at the inscription and/or staff wrapping page, but not here. – 17:18, 1 May 2011 (UTC)

Okay, I've updated Of Attribute, Of Mastery, Inscription, The Skinflayer (Uses long text, according to article), Jacado's Staff (ditto), and (where this started), Korrub's Vision + Korvald's Chakram. Could you take a look and (preferably) fix any issues or let me know what you think would work better? Thanks.  — Tennessee Ernie Ford (TEF) 18:11, 1 May 2011 (UTC)

The Skinflayer has the short version I think. We use pictures for the stats of green items at the german wiki, thats where my information comes from. But however, that is not of greater importance, at least not to me. The rest is perfectly fine. – 19:38, 1 May 2011 (UTC)

Ah, it didn't occur to me to check other wikis for details. (I suspect we have a significant number of items with stats paraphrased instead of verbatim from the game.) I'll leave the other items alone (since the current item descriptions use the long version). If someone verifies the current accuracy and they change that text, we can copy/paste the relevant note.

Again, thanks for taking the time to do the research and also to validate my updates to the articles.  — Tennessee Ernie Ford (TEF) 19:55, 1 May 2011 (UTC)