Talk:Shadow Refuge

6 Seconds duration

Wow. This skill is now more than 50% better...quite useful, i suppose... —ZerphaThe Improver 23:53, 12 October 2007 (UTC)

You would suppose...--Fallen 00:02, 9 November 2007 (UTC)

No more, it's now nerfed to 4 seconds duration instead of 6... I don't understand why, it wasn't really imbalanced. RadaArashi 02:34, 7 February 2008 (UTC)

Yep, this must be a mistake. All skills got a little duration buff, i.e. Troll Unguent, Healing Breeze, etc... and this is now back to 4 seconds? Maybe just a typo. The wording for clumsiness is irritating, too. --Longasc 16:13, 10 February 2008 (UTC)

I kinda prefer getting the burst heal sooner, but I agree, if the duration is decreased than the total healing should be improved elsewhere. KrelusDerian 16:35, 18 February 2008 (UTC)

lame cos this is like the only sin heal for factions, needs to be 8 sec and be

You are healed for 10..50..60 health, and you gain 4..9..10 regen for 8 seconds, if this enchantment ends when attacking you gain 10..50..60 health, i hate how it is now, sins have no self heal, other than way of perfection. Annoying And Deadly 04:00, 27 February 2008 (UTC)

The whole concept of this skill is utterly flawed imho (concerning pvp). I really appreciated the change to 6s duration and honestly don't know why it was changed back to 4s with increased conditional healing. With the 6 second duration a ganking sin was finally able to get a half-decent self heal instead of a laughable one to heal up between fights without the need of a specific secondary profession. Now with the duration changed back to 4s and the increased healing that kicks in if you're attacking this skill should obviously encourage you to use it in battle, not after battle. The 1s cast time greatly discourages this however as it leaves you vulnerable to interrupts and generally steals alot of precious time which could be better used with kiting or dealing damage. Imho this skill should be either changed back to 6s duration with reduced conditional healing OR have its casting time reduced to 1/4s. --Makku 02:33, 15 March 2008 (UTC)

What?

ew, revert... 71.204.179.26 03:18, 7 February 2008 (UTC)

indeed. and it wasnt even announced, which is even stranger. oh well, I'm not worried about it. Wandering Traveler 03:23, 7 February 2008 (UTC)

Eh we REALLY dont need to get back into the habit of nerfing useless skills izzy...(unless this was a mistake) --Lou-Saydus 05:52, 7 February 2008 (UTC)

Nope, all wrong. Check the bottom of the last update. It says this skill was changed. Pay a little more attention.--‎FireTock 03:06, 8 February 2008 (UTC)

Bleh, four seconds of max regen doesn't help you much. Ever. Unless you bring this as some sort of last-resort-i'm-about-to-die-and-the-monk-is-owned skill, but since it's an assassin skill if your monk is dead he died ressing you. Silavor 05:28, 8 February 2008 (UTC)

Why not? It is still 80 health you're getting, apart from the health bonus if you're attacking. I actually liek this a lot more than Troll Unguent, and everybody brings that. :-) Nicky Silverstar 08:18, 15 February 2008 (UTC)

Hero Problem

Does anyone else find that heros (zenmai in particular) has troubles using this? i mean, it seems that she will only use this in battle, she has died several times inbetween fights from things such as poison,bleeding,disease and longterm degen hexes when she could have easily used shadow refuge to heal and not die--Arrythmia 12:25, 9 July 2008 (UTC)

6 Sec is back

Well the 6 sec is back... comments? - SabreWolf 13:39, 6 March 2009 (UTC)

Still has problems because of cast time. Heals for like 40 points more now, give or take 20, which is nice but... Vili 14:40, 6 March 2009 (UTC)

yay!78.141.27.254 22:13, 5 April 2009 (UTC)

Related skills section

So, the way I see it, all skills listed here are that which provide Health regeneration, no?

If we were to do this, should we not list every single skill that grants Health regeneration? Which is completely pointless.

I also see that Shadow Sanctuary and Feigned Neutrality have been added as well, this skills provide Health regeneration and offer an armor bonus... Armor bonus has absolutely nothing to do with this skill.

Shadow refuge is a skill which provides Health regeneration and conditional healing assuming the caster is attacking when the enchantment ends.

So, why not remove the related skills section (Since, as far as I know, there aren't any other skills with such conditional healing) and simply add a note which states

"For a list of skills which provide Health regeneration see here"

Or anything to that effect, seeing as with things as they are it's either that or listing EVERY skill that offers Health regeneration, which is completely unnecessary...

Heck, theres a link in the skill description to Health regeneration and by extent, all related skills.

My point beinggggggggggggggg, the formatting and content of this page could be a little better, I think.

Just my little rant of the day, and an idea. Correct me if I'm wrong. ~ Ryuu Desu [Talk | Contributions] 02:43, 15 March 2009 (UTC)

That makes sense, but next time can you type it in a way that's easier to read? At first I wasn't sure if I was reading a conversation or a paragraph. 173.67.18.86 21:37, 21 May 2009 (UTC)

Final heal/health gain

Good day, Mr. Infinite. I wish to clarify the nature of the health gain. The gain is classified as healing, having concluded this after the following experiment :

• in the Isle of Weeping Stone, I stood under the stone fungus, in order to be affected by Stone Spores; using multiple skills from Healing Prayers, which specifically use the word "healing", I verified the environmental effect's description. The healing done by myself to a hero was reduced, whereas the healing from my hero to myself was not; that is because Stones Spores only reduces the healing done by the affected individual;
• while in the Isle of the Nameless, standing in the Student of Deep Wounds's circle and being affected by the Deep Wound condition (which specifically states that healing is reduced), the health gain from Shadow Refuge was, in fact, reduced;

Shadow Refuge may present a special case. Other self-heal skills like Heart of Shadow, Death's Retreat, Natural Healing, Dwayna's Touch or delayed heals like Patient Spirit seem to still have the values reduced. I apologise from reverting once, however I tried to explain everything here. Thank you and have a good day. ---- Magnum 15:18, 8 July 2015 (UTC)

It's alright, it just seemed a bit odd that the change was on an established note from a couple of years ago (by a user who is very research-oriented). I didn't mean to come across as high-horsing, though. I apologize. I had a bit of blind faith in Silver, is all.

That said, it raises a few interesting problems:

• Is self-healing not "done" healing? Or is only self-health-gain not counted as healing (current expectation)?
• How many descriptions mix up health gain and healing specifically, and how does that affect the split of definitions between the two?
  • Perhaps Shadow Refuge is far from the only health-restoring skill that doesn't actually heal,
  • and perhaps Deep Wound does not only affect heals, but all health gain.

There appears to be a lot more research ahead for this wiki and I think we have this collection of edits to thank for it. - Infinite - talk 11:52, 9 July 2015 (UTC)

Actually, testing returns very unexpected results. Skills like Aura of Faith and Life Attunement and effects like Deep Wound, which should normally only affect healing, modify the values of many skills that use the term "health gain", like Death's Retreat and Draw Conditions. But since I could find a counter-example, Pious Restoration, which mentions health gain and is not affected by these enchantments and Deep Wound, I can only assume that very many skills make wrong usage of the terms in their descriptions. And I can also conclude that Shadow Refuge has a heal effect.

Therefore, Shadow Refuge would not be the last or only skill in need of this kind of research. I then propose that I revert the page to its previous revision. ---- Magnum 13:16, 9 July 2015 (UTC)