Talk:Spirit spammer

Move to Spirit Spammer

Yes to moving.

I have never heard anyone refer to an SoS- or TS-based build as anything other than Spirit Spammer. Occasionally, someone will refer to a Ritual Lord-based build as a Spirit Lord, but even then, I'm not sure if they aren't doing that by accident (trying to type Spirit Spammer and then Ritual Lord, but ending up with something else). In fact, near a I can tell, this wiki always used Spirit Spammer and only recently updated links to point to something else. — Tennessee Ernie Ford (TEF) 03:52, 16 August 2011 (UTC)

+1 To Spirit spammer. Vald [Citation Needed] 05:05, 16 August 2011 (UTC)

I support and agree to this move as well. I don't understand why it wasn't created there and it was created here instead. I'm wondering if it could be a european phrase or something. Kaisha 05:24, 16 August 2011 (UTC)

I say yes as well, I've never even heard this in-game and I thought it was a skill the first time I saw it as a link. ~FarloTalk 06:34, 16 August 2011 (UTC)

Here we have a case of two different playstyles under the same name. I say the ritualist information in the Spirit spam article needs to be merged into the current Spirit spammer article. The Spirit Spam article should then only contain information about the ranger Spirit Spammer. Furthermore I suggest the two articles to be moved to Spirit Spammer (Ritualist) and Spirit Spammer (Ranger), along with the creation of a disambiguation page. Sanctus Medellae 03:50, 8 November 2011 (UTC)

Why the hell isn't this merged yet? -- Hong 07:51, 11 December 2011 (UTC)

Merge ?

I found Spirit spam and this one. I think that one can do just fine for both. How to merge, I don't know. I just feel that we can merge the pages and have it say the same, but with less words. Should we be changing all the links again so soon, when there's two pages? I think we can use Spirit Spam for both Spammer and the Spam it's self. Redirecting Spammer to Spirit Spam and redirecting Spirit lord to Spirit Spam. Thoughts? Kaisha 16:23, 16 August 2011 (UTC)

I agree, they're essentially the same topic. I'm not sure on which would become the actual title, either works fine really, but I'm leaning towards "Spirit spammer".~FarloTalk 21:20, 16 August 2011 (UTC)

Only really need this bit:

Ritualists use these spirits to tactically secure essential areas and quickly place many spirits within range of some critically strategic capture or choke point. This allows the team to focus on offensive measures, while the spirits harass or slow attackers using spirits like Pain, Shadowsong, or Wanderlust, which are a sort of defensive barrier at the same time.

Ritualists using Signet of Spirits are currently the most common Spirit Lords. When deciding to take several Spirit Lords in the same team, its is best to avoid having two spirits of the same name within range to each other, and the team should consider changing their builds accordingly.

Spiritway (commonly referred to as Sway) is a Spirit Lord gimmick build frequently seen in Heroes' Ascent.

The rest is a bunch of irrelevant crap and historical notes. --File:User Chieftain Alex Chieftain Signature.pngChieftain Alex 21:33, 16 August 2011 (UTC)

Spiritway means something entirely different in PvE... But, that aside, if we simply take the former Ritual Lord article (now called Spirit spammer) and delete the article called Spirit spam, I think we're good. Anything the moved article might/might not be missing will get fixed over time. (Personally, I think it already has far too much verbiage, given how little of it there is that either newbies or veterans can use.) – Tennessee Ernie Ford (TEF) 21:49, 16 August 2011 (UTC)

I agree with keeping this page, and I'll try to make the page shorter and more useful. It definitely doesn't need to be this long. --ஸ Kyoshi 22:12, 16 August 2011 (UTC)

Here's my attempt. --ஸ Kyoshi 22:36, 16 August 2011 (UTC)

I like your version Kyoshi. I think we should get the other one deleted then and a redirect to here. I did think that the whole thing was rather verbiage, even tried to shorten a little bit, but was reverted. I was tempted to remove the skills, because so many use different skills with spirits and the current are just one "Version". I think we should keep to the version that Kyoshi did. It's informative, not too much and not too little. Just enough to explain. More details can be found on pvx far as builds. Far as skills - that's what we have ritualist skills for (even a variety of pages on these skills, each skill has a page, we have pages on elites, the full lists of skills per profession, campaign, etc.). It seems redundant to even have that on this page, even the "full details" that I was reverted over. The current is too long and has too much, imo, fluff. You only give the reader what they need, nothing more. Many can loose interest a quarter of the way or half way through this current lengthily page going do what? or wtf? Where as with the proposed, it's only two paragraphs, short, simple, and easy to read without spending a whole lot of time reading about something that didn't need all the "excess" to it. Kaisha 01:35, 17 August 2011 (UTC)

Against

THIS IS SPAMMING.

Logic; bullet style (too exhausted to write a page long essay)

Move - Spirit Lord

• Spammer is not technically correct.
  • The term Spam is term misused almost as much as "noob".;
  • its a tactical-term and not a proper name for a Build/Team Role.
  • If Spirit Lords are Spammers, then why arnt Minion Masters called minion spammers?
  • Calling them "Ritual Lords" is not technically correct since not every spirit producing skill is a ritual; the same is true for Animate Masters?
  • And why are... (que dozens of examples)
• Not every Spirit Lord spams spirits, and not every user the deploys spirits is a Spirit Lord.
  • The most basic objective of Spirit Lords is to maintain the presence of spirits (often 1-3 in pvp).
  • If I wanted to spam in the traditional definition of the word, today id deploy some combination of Soul Twister+Rupture Soul+Destruction.
• The abbiation of SS for spirit spammer is an overloaded term.
  • Nearly every ritualist player ive ever partied with (ally or pug) over the last 5+ years have never herd of Spirit Spammer, let alone used that term to describe themselves and/or role.
  • Ive had frequenly heard/seen the following; Soul Spinner, Spirit Wrangler, Spirit Master, Spirit Monger, Spirit Binder, Spirit Shepherd, Spirit Shaman, Spirit Wall, Spirit Henchmen, Spirit Farm... in addition to the classic Ritual Lord (which was nearly 50% of the time).
  • The majority folks that seems to use Spirit Spammer are those who were present since the PvP-beta days; back during the abusive application of Nature Rituals.
• Rangers, whom were the originally called Spirit Spammers, gave rise to the build-based tactical term Spirit Spam.
  • The term spirit spammer has increasingly become an outdated or misused term.
  • If folks are discussing Indians/Indian-Americans/Americans-Indians I automatically Indians from india (or those of indian-descent)
  • Not the Native Americans/Native Alaskans that an ignorant minority explorer incorrectly assumed that they were Indians (and still persits today, which drives me mad).
• Its portmanteau Spirit "-insert name-" and Ritual Lord; the elite that excusively dominated the build before the two major ritualist updates
  • Ritualists are supposed to be the Lords of spirits.
  • Spirit Lord roles off the tongue better; try saying spirit spammer 5x fast.
• <more to be inserted>

Merge - Spirit Spam

• Spirit Lord is about a build/team role.
• Spirit Spam is about historcal facts.
• The two pages evolved out of necessity for distinction.
• Historiclly, Spirit Spammer was moved to Spirit Spam due to consistency. (yes i am THAT anal reguarding all things rit)
• Many folks have informed me of its interesteing read and how informative of things they previously werent aware of.
• Tried working with Spirit Spam page, but the info increasingly begged for its own page.
  • On the side note, loving how the format is evolving (minus the move) and sorry for not contributing more often as originally intended.
• Honestly, i almost deleted spirit spam was almost deleted after the creation of spirit lord. (i'd bet real money no one would had cared at the time.) But instead it was made more then a stub, with interesting facts that format wise didnt logically belong to Spirit Lord (and vice versa),
• <more to be inserted>

Summary; these changes were made when A) it made logical sense after spending 2+ years debating the issues, and B) no one else cared at the time.

--Falconeye 04:09, 18 August 2011 (UTC)

I can't be bothered reading all that claptrap; it looks like you're mostly ticked off about the (mis)use of the words "spam" and "spammer". Unfortunately for you, we document the game and how it's played. Spirit spammer is the term used by the playerbase; spirit spammer will be the name of the article. -- Armond Warblade 04:28, 18 August 2011 (UTC)

To be really technical about it, Spam is a meat-like substance well-loved in many of the pacific islands. For reference, you would have lost the bet about who cared about the change to Spirit Lord; I've never thought it was a good idea (again, because no one uses the term — everyone says "Spirit Spammer"). Also: we don't need two articles: spirit spammer is a type of build, not a role (the role is healer or damage dealer or control or...several others, any of which could be fulfilled by a variety of spirit spammer). – Tennessee Ernie Ford (TEF) 05:20, 18 August 2011 (UTC)

I believe that, following the related Monty Python skit, the term became used widely enough to secure a spot in many dictionaries as a verb. At the least, it's on reference.com. -- Armond Warblade 05:38, 18 August 2011 (UTC)

Verb & Noun

• Spam: Action to create many spirits non stop.
• Spammer: Character doing the spam or spamming.

Yoshida Keiji talk With appearance of: Yoshida Keiji talk 11:56, 20 December 2011 (UTC)

Choosing Your Spirit

Which is the purpose of that section if we already have a list of Binding Ritual skills? Plus the page already starts with recommendations at the very beginning. Shouldn't we focus all skill optionals at one single place instead? Yoshida Keiji talk With appearance of: Yoshida Keiji talk 12:41, 20 December 2011 (UTC)

Merge + move + rewrite

I've creating Spirit spammer/Draft as a first draft for an article to replace Spirit spammer and Spirit spam. I've created it to be similar to other build articles:

• Introduction/Orientation
• Build characteristics (could probably use 1-3 sample builds, e.g. a classic SoS, TS Prot, and RL Communer).
• Evaluation (possible skimpy).

I've left out a lot of verbiage from the original two articles:

• I've ignored everything that referred to how to play a spirit spammer, since that belongs in a guide article, not an encyclopedic entry.
• I've ignored almost all historical/trivia, unless it has a direct connection to the current game or other relevant articles.

Unless there are objections, I'd like to replace spirit spammer with the draft and redirect spirit spam there. For the present, discussion about the draft should be held at the draft's talk page. – Tennessee Ernie Ford (TEF) 05:26, 29 December 2011 (UTC)

How long are you going to wait for others opinions? Yoshida Keiji talk 16:05, 1 January 2012 (UTC)

There wasn't much activity this weekend (no doubt due to RL or spamming of WW), so I thought I'd wait another few days. (I'd hoped that 1+ ppls might comment on the draft and/or update it, too — I'm sure there's plenty of room for improvement.) Do you think it would be better to wait longer? Not bother waiting? – Tennessee Ernie Ford (TEF) 16:25, 1 January 2012 (UTC)

I think you should go replace it right away. The last topics that I have checked were GoLE, Jade Quarry, Bomber, Imbagon and this one; I was surprised to see long standing "known" topics still under stub categories. It was only after repeated complains in AC about wiki that I came to confirm here. Yoshida Keiji talk 16:58, 1 January 2012 (UTC)

(Reset indent) Since no one has offered any objections, I'm replacing the existing text with the draft text, redirecting spirit spam to spirit spammer, and asking for the draft article to be deleted at the end of the month. – Tennessee Ernie Ford (TEF) 17:59, 5 January 2012 (UTC)