Talk:Stun Immunity

Some years ago, it was possible to overcome the stun immunity by swapping gears that lenghten kd duration just before landing the first kd. But it would only affect the first kd. Ex: I had fun stunning stone summit beast masters by swapping to non-kd-lengthening gloves then to kd-lenghtening gloves right after, when adrenaline was built. It had no serious impact on the game and hence was not adressed by anet until some years later. However, a detail that allowed me to do Grenth Footprint and sorrow furnace dayly as a hammer warrior and 2 healers henchmen (party total size 3) back to 2005 (you had no pve skills and only one campaign), may not have been adressed yet. Yseron - 86.64.70.44 10:54, 12 May 2010 (UTC)

The swap-gear-back-and-forth trick still works but the kd duration does not exceed 1 or 2 sec. Yseron - 90.15.49.148 16:14, 16 May 2010 (UTC)

Earthbind

does it always get rid of this? 70.135.124.76 16:40, 7 July 2010 (UTC)

YES! Combo it with Great Dwarf Weapon and 12+ ranks in Spawning Power, and its insanely OP! ^_^ --Falconeye 04:33, 1 May 2011 (UTC)

Misleading

The page says: Foes that cause knock downs almost always carry this passive skill, otherwise they would stun themselves. This includes: Dolyak Riders. Dolyak Riders do not cause knock downs, as this statement implies. Summit Giant Herder and Summit Beastmaster are more appropriate. See Giant Stomp. I suggest rewording/splitting into two lists - one list of things with stun immunity to simulate their size and another list for foes that cause knock down and therefore have stun immunity. Jafar 03:46, 2 June 2011 (UTC)

Ok, Tennessee made the split while I was making the note... Always one step ahead. Still, Dolyak Riders do not cause knock down. Jafar 03:51, 2 June 2011 (UTC)

Damn! He made that change too before I got off the second note. Some people have no life. Jafar 03:52, 2 June 2011 (UTC)

I happened to be adjusting the first bit at the same time; if I had been quicker, you could have gone straight to the second note (I definitely needed that reminder; I always get Dolyak Riders confused with Giant Herders for some reason, unless I happened to have encountered one or the other recently.) — Tennessee Ernie Ford (TEF) 05:05, 2 June 2011 (UTC)

The notes still seem to be somewhat misleading now, while the header ""Large Foes" that use Giant Stomp always carry this passive skill, otherwise they would stun themselves. Notable examples include:" implies that a list of foes using Stun Immunity to counter Giant Stomp will follow, but more than half of the given examples do not use Giant Stomp at all (see Giant Stomp for the actual list) . Shouldn't all those either fall in the second list or the header reworded? Or am I just getting it wrong? ***EAGLEMUT*** TALK 06:17, 2 June 2011 (UTC)

Sigh. Yeah, you got it correct (unlike some of the editors). I've attempted to distinguish three types: specific foes and foe types that carry Giant Stomp; large foes that are immune for other reasons; and Shiro (I think he's the only small boss with immunity; the others fall into the other two categories).

Also: let's not add more examples: notes are meant to be illustrative, not exhaustive. — Tennessee Ernie Ford (TEF) 07:36, 2 June 2011 (UTC)

Earthbind not the only one?

Earthbind increases kd to 3 seconds. If 3 second kd's is all it takes to counter this, then Psychic Instability (4 attribute points and up) and Stonefist Insignia (at its max) should be able to bypass this. -- Konig/talk 18:45, 5 June 2011 (UTC)

I'm willing to be two quatloos that it's a PvE-skill bug/anomaly/oddity, rather than the 3s (since User:Anvil God sez that he used Great Dwarf Weapon, instead). But it shouldn't be too hard to test. — Tennessee Ernie Ford (TEF) 19:23, 5 June 2011 (UTC)

Could be my eyes. Could've sworn I've seen the KD animation when I used GDW. Anvi God _zzz... 19:49, 5 June 2011 (UTC)

It wouldn't surprise me if a PvE skill still triggers the animation, even though it fails to KD a Stun-immunized foe. We don't know exactly why Earthbind bypasses the immunity; the trigger might be the 3 seconds, the PvE skill, something about spirits, or an intended effect of earthbind that the devs forgot to add to the description. — Tennessee Ernie Ford (TEF) 19:58, 5 June 2011 (UTC)

Frost Titans don't even have a kd animation. Just like with being interrupted or with Oakhearts in Kryta, they just stop casting. It may look like a quick flinch but that's just going from casting animation to standing still animation. So the only way to know if you'd kd something that normally shouldn't be kd'able would be if they just stop doing anything.

@TEF: Regarding why Earthbind bypasses the immunity, my guess is just as what's noted on Shiro Tagachi#Notes and Dhuum#Notes. That is "He can't be knocked down unless the duration of the knockdown is enhanced." 10 bucks says they both have Stun Immunity. Which means either Earthbind and Stonefist Insignias will kd them, or it's hitting a certain time-length in which you'd have Phsychic Insability and more slapped on the list.

If either case I'm presenting is correct, then we can create two lists to test to see which is the case:

Enhanced KD

• Earthbind (confirmed to bypass)
• Stonefist Insignia

3+ second kd

• Backbreaker
• Psychic Instability
• Junundu Tunnel
• Gust
• Reaper's Sweep
• Chocking Breath

So as I see it, we just need to take the second list out against Shiro and a monster known to have Stun Immunity, then go again with normal kd and Stonefist Insignia. Unfortunately I don't have a primiary warrior so I can only test that via heroes. :/ Looking at the list, I'm thinking it'll only be the former situation (enchanced kd). -- Konig/talk 20:21, 5 June 2011 (UTC)

Just tested on Shiro - Stonefist Insignia (+Devastating Hammer) worked, just as Earthbind (+YMLAD) did, and Backbreaker alone did not. I then tested against a Tundra Giant - Psychic Instability (@4 sec kd) only interrupted. Earthbind worked. But Stonefist Insignia+Devastating Hammer (if math is right, 2 sec kd) did not. So Shiro in fact does not have Stun Immunity - or at least not the same kind as Tundra Giants. Either way, the note on this page is wrong. Going to do some more kd checking. -- Konig/talk 21:07, 5 June 2011 (UTC)

More testing and the only way to KD a Tundra Giant I can find is via Earthbind. So yeah, only way to bypass it seems. -- Konig/talk 21:13, 5 June 2011 (UTC)

Testing 1-2-3

(Reset indent) AAaaaaand the fun comes in. I saw the note "Foes that use Giant Stomp always carry this passive skill, otherwise they would stun themselves". This, apparently, is not true. Why do I know? Nightfall giants can be knocked down (they even have a "omg ahhh" pose!). However, they are unaffected by Giant Stomp. And yes, they can be knocked down by any skill. So having Giant Stomp will no guarentee having Stun Immunity.
Unless, of course, there's some unknown ranking to Stun Immunity which makes the amount of anti-kd vary among foes... -- Konig/talk 21:39, 5 June 2011 (UTC)

It should be noted that the NF giants are only interrupted by normal kd (or at least YMLAD), while something like Psychic Instability makes them freeze for a few seconds (no Earthbind or anything). -- Konig/talk 21:41, 5 June 2011 (UTC)

I've updated the note to reflect the fact that Desolation giants carry G-Stomp but not S-Immunity (according to Bull Trainer Giant, some NF giants do carry both). I've also included Jotun as an example of big/can't-KD, since only the Skullsmashers carry both.

I've also rephrased the Shiro/Dhuum note, to clarify that while SI makes you immune/resistant, being immune/resistant doesn't mean you carry SI. In theory, any details of how to KD them should be left to other articles, since this one is about SI... not about overcoming KD resistance.

If Nomad/Sadist Giants behave exactly as if they are KD'd but do not display any KD-animation, how should we document that? Does it mean that they aren't KD'd? or does it mean that there's a bug/anomaly which prevents them from displaying the animation? (e.g. the devs forgot to give them SI or forgot to include the animation toggle in their data definition) Or, Konig, did you mean that something different happens to them altogether when they are hit with an otherwise KD-causing event? → I'd vote for saying that they are KD'd, but they don't show the animation (bug/anomaly), but that's a weak preference.

Finally, I don't think the phrasing here (or on other related articles) is as good as we can make it, so I expect that we will continue to see some tweaking for a while.

(PS nice job on the research by Konig (Shiro/Dhuum/NF Gs) and Falconeye (besides EB testing.) — Tennessee Ernie Ford (TEF) 00:28, 6 June 2011 (UTC)

Unless someone from anet can solve this mystery, I'll need to assume that all foes that cannot be KD (but can be KD using EB and/or SFI) most plausibly have Immunity; and thus would prefer to gear relating info to something concised "Rule of Thumb" for the average reader. Like... "When in doubt, if it looks BIG, have someone bring EB..." Some like using KD, but most are unsure or unaware that certain foes in certain regions have stun immunity. (Even my Guild Leader, whom I consider the most hardcore person ive ever met ingame, didnt know of EB' effect until I informed him last month.) On a side note, I love how i can slot EB into my existing ST-Spirit Lord builds for the added layer of defence/offence; places demand for PUG's when Z-vanquing areas with "Large Mobs". ^_^ --Falconeye 02:25, 6 June 2011 (UTC)

@The Nomad/Sadistic Giant animation: Just like with Frost Titans, those which are designed to be unknockdownable still have a unique interrupt animation (in the case of these giants, they look slightly up with their arms up and an open mouth - like I said above an "omg ahh!" look), so when they are knocked down, they just use this animation prolonged. For normal foes, their interrupt is a fast-action kd animation. Effectively: Interrupt animation=KD animation, but some individuals animation for this does not show the individual with their butt on the ground (those who should but non-knockdownable).

@Falconeye: I'm sorry, but there's a unique difference between foes with Stun Immunity and Shiro. I cannot confirm with absolute truth for Dhuum (I may be able to do so in the future though), but placing the skill on his skill list is speculation either way. But I can say with absolute certainty that Shiro does not have Stun Immunity. I can only assume that the "cannot be knocked down by normal knockdowns" is a hidden coding in skills like Natural Resistance (not that particular skill, but rather a different passive skill given to unique bosses). I wouldn't be surprised if the other elite/end-game/super-unique bosses (Lich, Mallyx, Duncan, etc.) have passive skills we cannot see which give them their nice little buffs. For instance, we know Burning Immunity is used on Destroyers (possibly more), and there are many skills which we have no clue what their real actions are - e.g., Critical Hit Probability (most likely increases critical hits though), Dhuum (skill), Elite Regeneration (most likely given to Terrorweb Dryders and other UW creatures which have that 7 pip regen), Energy Boost, Greater Hard Mode NPC Buff, Hard Mode Dungeon Boss, Hard Mode NPC Buff, Lesser Hard Mode NPC Buff and [[]]; while others, such as Health Drain, Titans get plus Health regen and set enemies on fire each time he is hit., Undead sensitivity to Light, and Immunity to Critical Hits, are clear in what they do.

My guess? Dhuum and Shiro have Strong Natural Resistance. -- Konig/talk 08:14, 6 June 2011 (UTC)

Went through the history of Dhuum to see who put up the note for the enhanced kd on Dhuum. "Dhuum can be knocked down, but it has to have a duration >2s" [1] - so the note's a bit off, according to that.

Should there be a sub-category of monster skills for "immunity skills and other annoying skills thats difficult to distinquish/test?"

No. No need to get into such organization OCD'ness. -- Konig/talk 01:39, 9 June 2011 (UTC)