Template talk:X

I think that since this template is called X it should contain an X. We should be using {{any}} now. I know this means editing articles, but there might be (and surely must be) some situations where this template is used 'correctly', i.e. to symbolise an X.

So I propose we revert this back to the X image and start converting articles that really mean "any profession" to use {{any}}. LordBiro 20:13, 1 September 2007 (UTC)

I agree. A template named x should be an x. There are occasions where you want to say "No profession" and where you want to say "Any profession". Having two templates helps to make this clear. - anja 20:17, 1 September 2007 (UTC)

iawtc - BeX 08:18, 2 September 2007 (UTC)

Icon change

← moved to Guild Wars Wiki talk:Formatting/Professions#Icon Change

Unknown vs N/A

I think this icon better resembles N/A, and the any icon is better used for "Unknown", as that can be "any". The cross more symbolizes "no", to me. As I think the alt text should reflect that, I'm reverting. - anja 13:04, 11 October 2007 (UTC)

This icon is 'supposed' to be used for professions. All creatures have one, we just don't know what it is. Backsword 13:45, 11 October 2007 (UTC)

This icon still says "No profession" to me, so using it on NPCs we just dont know the profession of would be wrong in my head. I much prefer ({{any}}) for that purpose. I don't understand what you think it's 'supposed' to be used for. - anja 13:54, 11 October 2007 (UTC)

All creatures don't have a profession. Sure, it can be argued that alot of them are Warriors, but just because you can do a normal attack, doesn't make you a Warrior, or just because you can shoot a wand blast from your mouth (ie Skales), doesn't make you an Elementalist.--§ Eloc § 14:06, 11 October 2007 (UTC)

Anja, I don't really agre with your preference, but the key is that using {{any}} would require changing hundreds of articles. We've consitently used x for unknown profession. There is no need to save it for "No Profession" anyway, since there is no cases of that in the game. Backsword 08:24, 12 October 2007 (UTC)

I don't mind changing hundred of articles, if it means they are more correct. But since our opinions differ, we should get some more input from other people :) - anja 10:01, 12 October 2007 (UTC)

All creatures have a profession. Just because they don't use any skills from a profession, doesn't mean they don't have one. There are ways of finding out the professions: soul reaping, tome drops, focus attributes, etc. — Skuld 10:29, 12 October 2007 (UTC)

How does Soul Reaping help you there? Doesn't that just show you that it's alive and just died? and as for Focus Attributes, monsters drop attributes of all different kinds, regardless of profession.--§ Eloc § 16:03, 12 October 2007 (UTC)

For me, this is even more arguments for my point, since I still think "X" symbolizes no profession, not unknown profession :P What do you think, Eloc, Skuld (and everyone else)? - anja 16:05, 12 October 2007 (UTC)

N/A sounds like it's a wildcard to me. Seems to me like N/A should be used on something like Graven Monolith's, but with something that could switch between like all professions. I don't believe that every monster has it's own profession.--§ Eloc § 16:11, 12 October 2007 (UTC)

There was a long discussion over N/A, none and any and when and where they should apply at Guild_Wars_Wiki_talk:Formatting/Professions#Icon_Change ... but what d'you mean by "all creatures have a profession, we just don't know what it is" ... can you give us an example? Things like Siege Turtles or Luxon Base Defenders or the Spirit of Portals in Sunjiang District I would describe as having no profession and therefore the N/A template applies ... profession not applicable ... and skills which can be used by any profession like the Sunspear/Lightbringer skills or GWEN faction skills are any profession. -- pullus talk 11:11, 13 October 2007 (UTC)

Quoting Andrew McLeod: "All monsters have a profession, regardless of whether or not they use skills from that profession.". Backsword 08:56, 14 October 2007 (UTC)

Where does he say that?--§ Eloc § 09:03, 14 October 2007

(UTC)

Somewhere in his talkspace. Backsword 09:07, 14 October 2007 (UTC)

User talk:Andrew McLeod#Jormungand :) - anja 09:07, 14 October 2007 (UTC)

Ok then, that solves this discussion. Now for the final question, do we keep using this, or us the N/A one or use this one and treat it like an N/A?--§ Eloc §

(Reset indent) Does it? ... I donno ... I kinda think it's more useful and less confusing if the wiki reflects players' experience of the world rather than designer's theory ... if a foe in theory is a necro, but we don't know because it uses monster skills only so we call its profession unknown, that's less useful to a player than telling him/her that in the case of that foe a profession is not applicable. That's just my opinion though. -- pullus talk 11:29, 14 October 2007 (UTC)

But that may not be true; we may list them as unknown because we haven't found out that they use a profesion specific skill yet. Even if we SoC them, so as to know no skills, it is relevant as to primary attribute. Your necro will have Soul Reaping, but the Priest of Dagnar has Energy Storage. There may well be other effects none us have considered. Backsword 11:38, 14 October 2007 (UTC)

Anyone wanna start a list of unknown professions? We'll find 'em out. — Skuld 11:54, 14 October 2007 (UTC)

Those listed in these location, type and affiliation articles, as a start. Backsword 12:08, 14 October 2007 (UTC)

Ok i've done a few. Is Mr. McLeod the man for professions? I can't think of a way for finding the profs of generic merchants etc. I think all the prophecies ones are warriors, but in factions some have different professions, as show in the quest where you fight torments in Kaineng Centre. — Skuld 13:00, 14 October 2007 (UTC)

There is the correspondiong one in Lion's Arch. I seem to recall them being mostly warriors there, but with some eles and mesmers. Long time since I did it tho'. Andrew is the only Anet staff here that could naswer you, but do be reasonable in your requests on him. Can't expect him to give detailed lists for every creature.Backsword 13:25, 14 October 2007 (UTC)

XD, Gares Redstorm is an unknown profession.--§ Eloc § 19:31, 14 October 2007 (UTC)

(Reset indent) I still disagree with using the X as "Unknown". - anja 12:37, 16 October 2007 (UTC)

I don't mind using something else for unknown. Perhaps a questionmark or something. If you volunteer to change all those articles, that is. I don't want to do it. Backsword 12:41, 16 October 2007 (UTC)

I'd volunteer. I suggest using , "?" or simply nothing. In the case of the NPC infobox, I think it's better to just not list the profession and state in the article it's profession is unknown at this time. In other cases, like foe lists in locations, an icon or questionmark could be more informative. - anja 12:44, 16 October 2007 (UTC)

If we used a question mark, we could just get a bot to change it all and maybe have the template as {{?}}?--§ Eloc § 13:47, 16 October 2007 (UTC)

"?" is invalid as article name. And unfortunatly, it's just something like 95% of uses that need to change. Backsword 14:03, 16 October 2007 (UTC)

How is it invalid? - anja 14:07, 16 October 2007 (UTC)

{{any}} would be unsuitable, as we use this for things in common for all professions. Listed in many profession lists for skills; where it means anyone can use them. Leaving it blank is already used, in a way; it's the state things are in before the prod. icons are added. We add {{x}} just so editors won't waste time looking it up in order to add it. So we'd need a new template.

As for the NPC infobox, I agree. I don't even think we need to meantion it in the article always; if someone else can figure out what prof. something is, that's just fine. Skills are already listed in the article and any aura can be seen in the pic, if it's a boss. Backsword 14:03, 16 October 2007 (UTC)

Yea, maybe you're right there, the any icon would rather suggest it's any profession, not unknown. Why not just add a text "?" or "(profession unknown)"? - anja 14:07, 16 October 2007 (UTC)

Profession unknown takes up to much room. And {{?}} is valid, just got to make the page ;).--§ Eloc § 14:18, 16 October 2007 (UTC)

So... we basically want yet another icon to represent "unknown"? I don't like using a question mark. We don't generally keep question marks and markers like "to be filled in", or "to do" in articles so putting a "?" inside an infobox is... well... icky. But then again I can't think up any other icon that sufficiently represents "unknown". Based on how this discussion progressed, it would appear that this icon is no longer of any use. "Unknown" is "?" while "None" seems more appropriate to either not show it or use "-". A "x" has no more use. -- ab.er.rant 13:34, 19 October 2007 (UTC)

I think we should keep with until we can fill in what we think it their proper profession.--§ Eloc § 14:10, 19 October 2007 (UTC)

Even if I still think X is more "no profession", it seems like the best solution to use X for unknown also. Introducing a new template just for things we don't know yet (apart from stub tags) might be a bit weird, you are right. I think it should only be used in cases where stating the profession is really needed, not when listing allies in an outpost, or pets in a area, for example. - anja 14:13, 19 October 2007 (UTC)