User:Axwind/Gwen & Prophecies Hero's Reunion in EOTN

→ moved from User talk:Linsey Murdock

EOTN is a great expansion and all, but I was expecting more out of Gwen & Prophecies Hero's reunion. I just thought there would be more to it, but PH had absolutely no reaction whatsoever to seeing her again, no reaction to finding out what she had been through or that she was even still alive, something PH likely wouldn't have been certain of at all. I understand not everyone did anything with her in pre-Searing Ascalon, but for those who did and who kept the tapestry shred, the reunion should have been a little more in depth, I think. Outside that one quest shred-holders can do with her, there is no indication at all that she and PH ever knew each other before EOTN. Not even in the Wintersday quest, where in fact Gwen isn't quite so alone as she thinks if the player's character is a PH who did her tapestry shred quest. Because PH is, in that case, someone she knows in the present who she also knew in pre-Searing Ascalon. And there are very few people she can say that about. Yet that's never acknowledged at all. It's as if it never happened.

Given that their friendship meant enough to each of them to safeguard their gifts to each other - Gwen by burying her flute so she wouldn't lose it and PH by keeping the tapestry shred for all those years - one would think that the relationship would have gotten a little more attention in EOTN. Just enough that it would make her interactions with PH distinct from those she would have with any other kind of character. Because, I think, that's how it would realistically be. Not all the time, of course, but here and there could have been subtle nods outside the quest - if the quest was done - that their old friendship had happened, that it existed. Such as in her garden, since a PH who kept the shred would be well aware of her love of the red iris flowers, and she would know that PH knew (because PH gave her flowers back in pre-Searing Ascalon, and seeing PH again in the present would bring those memories back to her), so she wouldn't make her observations about them in quite the same way as she would to someone who didn't already know that fact. As well as better initial dialogue between them, something that more realistically portrays a reunion of two old friends after so many long years.

I hope you'll consider it, because I don't think it would be too hard, all that would need to be done is to tweak the dialogue a little in places or create a conversation box for that first meeting between them instead of just Gwen saying her one alternate line. And perhaps another in the garden, I don't know. The revisions I showed Bobby are just an idea, an example, and I don't expect them to be used verbatim, I just wanted to throw that out there to show what I meant. And if you do revise the dialogue in the tapestry shred quest and possibly Fire & Pain (since an Ascalonian character would have a more personal interest in helping her with that than a non-Ascalonian would) and the Wintersday quest, I'm sure there's a way to re-enable them (maybe the scrying pool, I don't know) so those who've already finished them can do them again to see the differences. Maybe her epilogue dialogue could vary depending on whether a character did the tapestry shred quest or not, so that those who did would have another nice little nod to that old friendship. Because in a situation like that, where the threat is at last beaten and things are okay again, she'd be more relaxed and more likely to address PH in that more familiar way.

Also, I was wondering what, if any, plans there were for Gwen and Thackeray. Because pairing them together doesn't seem to make a lot of sense since they barely know each other and Thackeray's only in EOTN for Wintersday and was never there before that. It seems to me that, if she was going to get together with anyone, a male PC would be a better choice given everything they've been through together through EOTN's story, her background quests, talking to her in her garden, and taking her to the Underworld to see her mother. If the player character happened to be a PH who had kept her tapestry shred (though it shouldn't have to be, I don't want to be unfair to non-Tyrians), that would add a whole extra dimension to it.

If anything, I think the Wintersday quest would make her feel closer to the player character than Thackeray, since the PC did all the work and was the one who actually gave her the pendant (even though he or she never said anything, though I think it would have been nice if he or she had). It seems to me that, while he wanted Gwen to be happy, it's entirely possible for Thackeray to have had another motive as well if the PC was male. Given his desire to make sure everyone around him is happy, I don't think the idea of him playing matchmaker a little bit for a lonely young woman and her good friend is all that hard to believe. Just a nudge along the path, no more, since it's not really something that can be forced. And given that in every campaign besides EOTN a new PC starts out as a young adventurer (as said repeatedly by quest givers in the tutorial areas) with no skills and only basic knowledge of fighting, I think it's safe to say that the age difference between a PC and Gwen isn't so big (only 6-8 years or so) as to be insurmountable.

Thanks for listening, and I hope you'll at least consider doing something like what I've said. A lot of people grew attached to that relationship and hoped for a better reunion in EOTN than what they got. Please see if there's a way you guys can do something about this, in some way or other. If not revisions to the existing dialogue, then something else added to EOTN for PH characters who finished the tapestry shred quest. Something to give that relationship between PH and Gwen the kind of resolution and acknowledgment that a lot of folks do want but which they don't feel the existing quest and intro dialogue between the two provides.

--Axwind 22:41, 16 March 2009 (UTC)

QQ personaly i would have much rather had a Zombie Gwen then the gwen that we have right now, Also i think the Content for her and your interactions is Fine You play her in the BMP and there is the hole 2 page interaction of text you get when you take her to the uw, i would much rather see them make changes to other things that would actually be useful like a hairstyles or skill balance or the addition of the missing heros mesmer sin rit and para. or even a reskin armor sets for para and derv for luxon and kuzick. Also as i am sure 90000 other people will point out posting this one place is enough you dont need to post it everywhere unless some one says to you "i dont know, this is better to be asked on (insert anet employee here)'s page." i would a agree with you more if the other things i just brought up, and she wasn't in the bmp. 75.165.105.191 22:46, 16 March 2009 (UTC)

COOL STORY, BRO. --Cursed Angel 01:34, 17 March 2009 (UTC)

I won't bother trolling like the person above me, but I will say this Axwind - there is a lot of Gwen interaction. Besides the BMP story and the UW dialogue *two different dialogues btw* - you have dialogue from her in the garden, you got two quests that put any campaign hero acting like a Prophecies hero *poorly done imo*. While more would have been interesting, I and many others are hardly interested due to the "adult Gwen's" personality. It's not a favorable thing, so unless they have a side storyline where she becomes less... like she is and has a personality change to something favorable, it will end up being more of a waste of dev time in relation to what people like from it. Overall, expanding on Gwen is something left to magazine out of game canon lore. -- Azazel The Assassin\talk 02:17, 17 March 2009 (UTC)

Yeah, but most of what you brought up isn't exclusive to a PH with a tapestry shred. It's not just about having things to do with her, it's about story continuity, about logic and realistic portrayal given the established history between the characters. It doesn't make sense that she would address her old friend as though they'd only just met, and that there would be no nods to their old friendship outside of that one quest, that it would be as though it never existed. And her talk in the garden doesn't take into account the fact that if the player's character is a PH with a tapestry shred, that said character would already know of her love of the flowers and that she would know that he or she knew. Thus, her dialogue should be a little different in that situation, but it's not. And only one of her two quests can be done by a non-PH, which is fine, but while she has plenty to say in them, PH has nothing. PH says NOTHING. NO reaction to seeing her again. NO reaction to even discovering she's still alive, which until coming to the EOTN the PH would not have known for sure. NO reaction by the PH to finding out what she had been through, that she had been captured perhaps mere hours after PH left her to enter the Academy all those years ago and had spent most of her life since in captivity while PH had been adventuring. --Axwind 04:02, 17 March 2009 (UTC)

Like i said be fore there are Many other things that need improvement over something like this, Also it seems your on a warpath and your mind has already been made up. Also NONE of the other heroes Have nearly as much back story as your wanting for just Gwen, and she already has more back story then almost any of the other toons in the game. and another thing is a lot of people have made lore and story about gwen out side of the game and filling out a toon as much as you want them to would kind of dismiss a lot of what people think of her and how they feel about her. simply put its not worth it at all because who cares about pve i mean REALLY if you want a good pve game go play wow or Half life1 &2 and the episodes, the story in GW isn't that interesting or good i mean in 200 years DRAGONS happen anet couldn't be any less original. There are a lot of story points that dont really fit that they try and fix latter on like the transision from ph to factions is just a random tangent that they try and tie into night fall and it kind of works but you can tell that the story of factions was super random and even in ph you start off trying to rid ascalon of the invading charr and then you leave ascalon and completely forget about the charr, and you go on a random tangent for the scepter of orr i mean come on. sorry i ranted but yea... the thing anet can take from the story side of guild wars1 was that they need to have a story that they can expand on via the way they put out the standalone expansions.75.165.105.191 05:03, 17 March 2009 (UTC)

Especially for you:75.165.

So far you don't contribute to the process of making the game better. You simply lack of constructive criticism, and your only argument is " simply put its not worth it at all because who cares about pve? PvE would be a good aspect of the game if people like you (the ignorant ones) didn't ruin every single idea to improve that part of the game. Gwen had already some back-story, but the reason Axwind feels that something is missing from her interaction is because she is the main hero of guild wars. She was there in the beginning of prophecies, and in the eye of the north too. And I find it reasonable what Axwind wants. He Already backed up his idea. Boro 07:32, 17 March 2009 (UTC)

actually i have contributed a lot to changing pve and have been in a lot of discussions about pve i just don't feel like this is important or a useful improvement to the game. also face the facts this game is a PVP game WAY more so then it is Pve (well it used to be but then anet found out that people liked there pve aspect and shifted a bit) and no i am not ignorant like you clam i am just stating why this games pve is bad story wise, there are other things that are bad about pve that i didn't talk about. also i post under many different ips because my ip is dynamic and changes about every 2 weeks if not more. and i am too lazy to get a account because i don't want to have to sign in nor remember another password and i am a ass hat at times. Also there is other stuff that i want to be changed in the game like the up coming update to storage and hom, and other stuff that i would much rather have Linsey work on then walls of text that a few people might read. i am not saying they should never add stuff like this, but i am saying that there are other things that are game braking (bots in FA and JQ Syncing) that need to be addressed first and this isn't one of them.75.165.105.191 08:59, 17 March 2009 (UTC)

"face the facts this game is a PVP game WAY more so then it is Pve" I have to disagree with this pretty much across the board. I think if you really take a look at the general player base, you will find the large majority play pve while it is a vocal minority that play pvp. Pvp play in this game has become far too elitist for anyone but hardcore pvp players while the pve game is still very enjoyable for casual players. The fact they are still recording 200,000 new accounts every quarter tells me that there are still plenty of players just coming to the game (that and personal experience of playing with new players on a daily basis, most of whom focus on pve play since pvp is very unfriendly to new players). I think the gaps in the storyline were intentional on the part of the writers based on the original idea of providing a new campaign every 6 months so there would be places to expand. Maybe if we can give Linsey time (and a chance to work), some of those gaps will be filled in with the new quarterly content builds. -- Wyn 09:08, 17 March 2009 (UTC)

Wyn, Way to have Selective Reading Right after that i said "(well it used to be but then anet found out that people liked there pve aspect and shifted a bit)"75.165.105.191 09:25, 17 March 2009 (UTC)

Plus I really don't think PvP is unfriendly. Ya, there is idiots in RA/AB, we get that, but there's idiots in LA/Kaineg/Kama/EotN. One could argue there's a lot more idiots there because there's a lot more people playing PvE. Their stupidity is usually drowned out by trade, so no one is the wiser. There's plenty of guilds & people on the PvP side more than willing to help people learn, and they put their names out in the open and help people out daily too, people just have to look. DarkNecrid 09:28, 17 March 2009 (UTC)

So you why are stating GW is a PvP-game, only to chop down your own argument a second later, 75.165? OT, I was excited too about the prospect in meeting Gwen again. To say, it was a bit of a let down, meeting her in EotN, and her not acknowledging your hero. Maybe it's because all the trauma she has been through, getting captured by the Charr and all. Overall I thought Gwen to be too annoying, always nagging about the Charr, with her little quest for vengeance. --Arduinna 09:48, 17 March 2009 (UTC)

LEARN TO READ jebus no where did i say its a pvp-only game like you make it seem like i am saying. i said "face the facts this game is a PVP game WAY more so then it is Pve, (well it used to be but then anet found out that people liked there pve aspect and shifted a bit)" I also said the Story is Fragmented and not that interesting and if you want to play a game for its story and and pve go play other games because for the most part this one dosnt have that good of a story line. And that for the most part when it comes to updates for this game Mainly balance which is a huage part of the game its balanced for pvp (to be even more direct GvG) not pve. this is the last time im going to talk about this because it is pushing this farther and farther off the topic at hand witch is Gwen and her interaction with a PH born toon. to witch i respond with not needed other things are better to be improved upon. Also why i think some of her inital reaction is so Blank if you will is because she is in shock that your still alive, and they really wanted to tell what happened to her in the BMP, Also when they were makeing the LOTR movies one of the producers said something to the effect of this: "just because we decided not to have a seen in the movie it isnt like it didn't happen, it did it just happened off screen or during the off times when the Main story wasn't happening" 75.165.105.191 10:15, 17 March 2009 (UTC)

Okay, your last sentence made some pretty mature-rated images pop up in my mind O.o --Arduinna 10:44, 17 March 2009 (UTC)

Lol arduinna :D . Now about serious problems... 75.165 I agree with you that there are some serious problems with GW. Like the last update. for example PRage would have been ok with 10 second . Also there are badly designed areas in GW (most notably DoA or HB in PvP). If you want some further discussion about badly designed areas, wisit my talkpage, and if you want to further contribute, then visit Raine's mass-balance page if you want to write some of your ideas down. Boro 14:04, 17 March 2009 (UTC)

(Reset indent) Personally, I don't think Gwen is the hero of Guild Wars. She may be an important character to the Tyrian story lines and the player characters starting from Prohpecies, but she's completely absent for most of Prophecies, does not appear in Factions or Nightfall, and then reappears in EoTN just as several other memorable characters are. In my opinion, Mhenlo is the NPC most likely to be the Hero of the game. He's there to defeat all the final bosses in Proph, Factions, Nightfall and EoTN. However, I think that there's a lot of story elements that are presented in GW that would be nice to have expanded on - not just Gwen. Yukiko 00:22, 18 March 2009 (UTC)

True, but as I said above, this is about fixing the discrepancies in story continuity so that Gwen and PH's reunion in EOTN is portrayed more as it should have been and would have been. I agree, though, that there are certainly other parts of the story and other characters that could also be given more development. This is just one that I think a good number of people have a certain attachment to because of the established backstory between Gwen and PH, something that distinguishes her from every other hero in the game. Plus, it just makes a good story, old friends separated by time, distance, and war who finally find each other again many years later. Each of them has changed, each of them has known their own struggles and pain, but neither had ever forgotten the other. And together they help each other lay the demons of their pasts to rest, that they might build the future they want, the life they want, for themselves, each other, and their people. --Axwind 03:03, 18 March 2009 (UTC)

I am in full agreement with Axwind. The story of Gwen brings a bit of humanity to the game. Innocent child whose family is killed in the searing and she is captured by their killers. Everything is taken from her. She escapes and begins a crusade of vengeance. Then she meets up with her only link to her once happy childhood where she had people who cared for her. I too was disappointed in the reunion. SOMETHING should have been there. Some amount of recognition (even emotion) from the PH. Then there was the Wintersday quest. I definitely felt it was a step in the right direction. Finally, that aspect of love and hope that Gwen has missed out on in her lifetime was addressed. But again, some form of deeper friendship from the PH was needed. I dont think that some form of "human" side story is a bad thing in a game. ~Mervil 16:57, 22 March 2009 (UTC)

Thanks, Mervil! Glad you agree. And to better illustrate to everyone what I've been trying to say, I'm going to include here the dialogue revisions I mentioned. It does include an extra scene as well as requiring one new emote and a dialogue tweak to allow NPC's to address PC's by the first word of their name instead of the whole name all the time, but I don't think those would be too hard to do. Anyway, the revisions are just an example, an illustration, nothing more. Something to show one way it could be done. Anet's writers can easily come up with their own variation, and that's fine. I expect that. This is just showing them what I'm talking about when I say tweak the dialogue some to make the interactions better.

[Introductory dialogue]

PH: Gwen...

Gwen: Yes?

PH: Do you remember me?

Gwen: I... I don't know. You look so familiar, but...

PH (shows her the tapestry shred): Maybe this will help.

Gwen: Is this...? It can't be... <Character Name>? Is... is that you?

PH (nods): Yes. Yes it is.

Gwen: I thought I'd never see you again. I thought... I thought everyone I knew back then was gone.

PH: Not everyone.

Gwen: You're right, old friend. No matter how much they try, the Charr can't take everything from us. There will always be something they can't touch. Or someone...

PH: How did you come to be here, Gwen?

Gwen: I was captured by the Charr just hours after the Searing. Last year, I finally escaped and found my way here.

PH: You... you were their prisoner?

Gwen:: Yes, for seven years. It... it's not something I like to think about. But we can talk more later. Come, the Vanguard needs us now.

[In the garden with Gwen and a Tyrian character with a tapestry shred before completing Then and Now, Here and There quest]

Gwen: Red iris flowers. You gave me so many back then, remember?

PH: Yes. You wanted to have a whole vase full of them.

Gwen: That's right. I've always loved these flowers, you know. That's why I keep this garden, although I don't know exactly why.

Gwen: Perhaps to keep a little of our homeland alive in these harsh lands?

PH: You've done a good job of it, Gwen.

Gwen: Thank you, old friend. You know, it's amazing to me that something so fragile can blossom here, in this earth.

Gwen: When I look at this garden, I see what I lost, and what we all lost. But when that iris flower blooms, I see hope.

Gwen: If these flowers survive, so will we.

Gwen: The greatest forest can become cinders with a tiny spark. The Charr knew this, and they sought to stamp out our memories of home when they seared Ascalon.

Gwen: But what those beasts do not realize is that new life will always spring and, like a plant shoot, I am still standing. Still fighting for a life beyond this.

Gwen: Someday, Ascalon's fields will bloom again, and the scent of smoke in my nostrils will be the scent of clean air.

Gwen: People will come to the lush congresses of our homeland and they will know that the blood of heroes allowed the new life to spring forth.

Gwen: That is the future I will have. But now, we have work still to do. Come, the journey is long.

[During Then and Now, Here and There quest]

Gwen: These ruins were once a great temple. I think that's why the Charr used it as a temporary prison. Every passing second, our presence was a reminder of a destroyed past and a denied future, built on top of a monument to our broken faith.

Gwen: I have never known a creature more hateful than the Charr. Had I not escaped from them, would be dead by now. Or worse, a prisoner.

Gwen: Before the Ebon Vanguard found me, I was little more than a scavenger. Although I had an empty stomach, my mind was filled with thoughts of vengeance.

Gwen: Now that I find myself here, though, these broken pillars do not seem as tall and frightening as they once did.

Gwen: What is it, old friend? You look troubled.

PH: It's just... hard to think about what you must have gone through here. What it must have been like.

Gwen: I know. I hate them for what they did to me, to all of us.

PH: You've changed, Gwen.

Gwen: I suppose I have. I had to. They didn't give me any choice. But—wait, do you hear that? There are people here! If the Charr are still using this place to hold prisoners, then we must free them!

[Finding Daghar]

Daghar: So predictable... Threaten their holes, and the little mice scamper out.

Gwen: Silence, you thrice-damned monster! I will have your heart in compensation for the one you broke!

Daghar: Ah, the young mouse returns. And not alone, I see. Yes, I recognize you, <Character Name>. You have quite the reputation among my people. Now I will end it.

PH: Try it, demon. You'll fail. Badly.

Daghar: Now I understand your anger, Charr-killer. Shall I tell you how the young mouse screamed? How she cowered before me?

PH: The only thing I want to hear from you is silence!

[After defeating Daghar]

Gwen: As a child, I found myself haunted by his remorseless eyes staring into my own... and then nothingness. When the world appeared to me again, I was seeing it for the first time as a prisoner. For all of the horrors I witnessed while under the captivity of the Charr, few compare to the murderous visage of the one who took me from everything that I knew. That was Dahgar.

Gwen: You will torment me no longer, demon. As you have taken from me, I have taken from you. A life for a life.

Gwen: But I must apologize... I did not mean to drag you here for my own personal vendetta.

PH: It's alright. He deserved to be punished for what he did to you.

Gwen: It means a lot to me to hear you say that, old friend. Thank you.

PH: I'm glad I could help you settle things. But, him finding you that day, it... it never should have happened. It wouldn't have happened, if...

Gwen: If what?

PH: No, it... it's nothing.

Gwen: Then we should move on. There is something I mean to give you, but I had to see the safety of our homeland first. Come, we go to the ruins of Ashford... to my old home.

[After kneeling in Ashford]

Gwen: Do you remember this? It is the flute you gave me all those years ago. I lost the broken pieces of my first flute in the Searing, and did not want to lose your gift.

Gwen: I hid it here in the hopes that it would not be lost to me after the Searing.

PH: I must have run through this place a dozen times back then, but I never knew this was here.

Gwen: As you allowed me to keep this tapestry shred, allow me to return to you the flute, as a sign of our friendship. We have lost a great deal, but some things will endure. We will see this war through to its end. We will bring peace to these lands, and we will see them as beautiful as they once were.

PH: Gwen, I...

Gwen: Yes? What is it?

PH: Nevermind. We shouldn't linger here.

Gwen: You're right, old friend. There are many battles ahead. We should see Duke Barradin in Piken Square, and deliver him the news of the Charr's defeat. After that, we should return to the north.

Gwen: The Ebon Vanguard... and the future that we need to forge, are waiting for us!

[On entering the Hall of Monuments after completing Then and Now, Here and There quest]

Gwen: You've been quiet ever since we returned from Ascalon, old friend. Is everything alright?

PH: I... I don't know. But I'd like to talk, if you're not too busy.

Gwen: Of course. But why don't we go to my garden, just the two of us? I'm sure you'll feel more comfortable that way.

PH: Yes, that sounds good. I'll meet you there.

[On entering the garden with only Gwen in party after the above scene]

Gwen (walks over and sits among the flowers): Come over here and sit down with me, old friend.

PH (after sitting next to her): I'm starting to understand why you like it here.

Gwen: Yes, it's very peaceful. And quiet. A lot like the Hall. So, what's on your mind?

PH: I keep thinking about what you said back in Ascalon, about what happened to you. And I... I can't help feeling responsible somehow.

PH: If I hadn't left when I did, if I had stayed a little longer, I could have stopped Daghar from capturing you. I could have saved you.

Gwen: How? How could you have known what would happen? How could any of us have known? We had no warning, no idea that everything we knew, everything we loved, was about to be destroyed. You had your duty, and even as a child I understood that.

Gwen: So I never blamed you. Not once.

PH: I still... I still wish I could have been there for you.

Gwen: But you were, old friend. You were.

PH: What do you mean?

Gwen: Ever since you came here, I... I've started to find myself again, little by little. You brought back to me a piece of myself I thought I'd lost forever, a reminder of who I once was. And who I might still be again one day.

Gwen: We can't change what happened back then, but I'm beginning to understand that it's today that matters. And the future. And I'm glad you're here with me now to be a part of it. So please forgive yourself, old friend.

PH: I... Maybe I can, after all, Gwen. Thank you.

Gwen: You're welcome.

PH: Was that a smile I just saw?

Gwen: Yeah, I guess it was, wasn't it?

PH: It suits you.

Gwen: Thank you. It's still hard to do it much, but... I'll try. Anyway, we should be going. We still have many battles to fight before our struggle is over.

Please consider doing something, at least, Linsey, because a lot of us do feel shafted and disappointed with the stunted reunion we got. And it wouldn't take much to fix it, I don't think. It just builds on what's already there. Thanks! --Axwind 15:59, 25 March 2009 (UTC)

Gwen was like 9 while the characters are like, what... 18? 20? I wouldn't call someone 11 years younger than me a "friend", more "this annoying little kid that follows me around and bugs me for flowers". Unless you're a pedophile ofcourse. Mini Me 16:19, 25 March 2009 (UTC)

A player can't be addressed with <firstname> only. --Arduinna 17:47, 25 March 2009 (UTC)

Gwen was 10, and our character was anywhere from 16-18, no older. Anyone older would have had some skills already learned, but our character started with nothing. And you must not have seen Star Wars Episode I then, Mini Me, since it proves that a kid and a teenager can be friends. And with Gwen, it would be more like her being a little sister to your character anyway. And she never bugged you for flowers, she mentioned how she liked them but she never asked for them directly. And Arduinna, you're right that it can't be done as the game currently stands, but all it would take, I think, is a little programming to make it possible. --Axwind 18:35, 25 March 2009 (UTC)

Well, there's at least one technical problem I noticed right away, not bothering to read this short-story-turning-into-a-novel: many characters actually do not use a first name + last name 2-word format. If the name is "The Fallen One" would the character then be referred to as "The?" Or "I Smash Things" would become "I?" This can't work. As I mentioned before, I didn't bother reading this entire wall, but I would sympathize with having more of a relationship between a Prophecies character and Gwen, I was a bit disappointed that all these mementos equal to just a lame quest, and can be replaced by a simple Iris Flower.

Also, users have been requesting a "hug" emote since the beginning of GW time, but it's just not feasible. It might work for cinematics, where things can be staged in a mostly controlled environment, but definitely not in standard play. What happens if the "recipient" of the hug moves during the animation, you just hug thin air? Or if they are facing to the side? Would this emote be available only as synched, with the Space+* in the end? How close do you have to stand to each other? What about a "mini-monk" hugging the tallest possible warrior? It's just too complicated to make it a viable emote, because it wouldn't operate like the others, which are "solo" emotes, not directed at any specific location or targeted character, outside of facing in their general direction. Rose Of Kali 21:44, 25 March 2009 (UTC)

I guess you're right about the emote, I hadn't considered that part of it. And I suppose one could substitute "old friend" or "my friend" for the character's name. But I'm glad you agree with the basic idea of having more resolution to this part of the story. I went ahead and fixed my dialogue revisions based on your suggestions, btw. Those aren't the only places where the dialogue could be tweaked (the Wintersday quest so that our character says some of what Thackeray says now and that his or her old friendship with Gwen is acknowledged, and her epilogue dialogue come to mind) but those are the ones for which I've written revisions. --Axwind 22:08, 25 March 2009 (UTC)

Wall of text much? IMHO this really isnt a big issue, true it's a bit stilted but i suppose thats to make it usable for all chars regardless of which campaign they started in. Maybe the prophs only char mission could do with a bit of extra dialogue but guys could we please avoid posting massive walls of script on linsey's page? She's mega busy at the mo and can't keep up with her page, posting stuff likes this just increases the liklihood of her page being locked again while she trundles through the mounds and mounds of needless text. In this context "less is more" -- Salome 02:50, 26 March 2009 (UTC)

I understand what you're saying, but the whole point of this entire thing was that there was no mention of their prior friendship outside that one quest. If the character had done that quest, there should have been. There have been alternate dialogue sets in GW before. That's all that's needed here. There's no reason for Gwen to treat someone she already knew like someone she just met. It's inconsistent with the fact of their established backstory. I think Anet's mistake was making the dialogue too generic and forgetting about the differences that should have been there to reflect outside the quest that she had met PH before, that they knew each other. --Axwind 04:46, 26 March 2009 (UTC)

You are forgetting one little thing: most people had no back story at all with Gwen, they didn't even bother as much as letting her follow them. Be happy that they even did the quest at all, they didn't have to. This is a non-issue, really, so please, end the wall of text, nobody wants to read it. These are great ideas, but do realize: nobody cares about their implementation. Rose Of Kali 04:52, 26 March 2009 (UTC)

Actually, you're wrong. A lot of people did stuff with her. And quite a few have voiced their support here for what I've suggested. --Axwind 11:58, 26 March 2009 (UTC)

Just thought of something, so I thought I'd share it. It occurred to me that, if our character takes Gwen to the underworld to see her mother, she never thanks him or her. And as that reunion would mean quite a lot to her, I should think she'd be quite grateful to our character for bringing her there, especially since you don't necessarily have to have her as a party member in the underworld. So I wrote up this little bit of dialogue for her to have with the player character in the Hall of Monuments after taking her to see her mother. It works for any character, regardless of which campaign they came from. I just think it'd be a nice way to wrap up that part of the story, is all.

[In the Hall of Monuments after taking Gwen to see Sarah]

Gwen: Thank you, my friend, for taking me to see my mother. It means so much to me.

PC: I'm glad I could help.

Gwen: I think, for the first time, I can finally start to move on with my life. To see the future, rather than linger on the past. Mother was right.

Gwen: My friend, I know it wasn't an easy journey to make, to go into that hellish place. And you didn't have to bring me along.

PC: Yes, I did.

Gwen: Why?

PC: You were in pain, Gwen. I knew how much you missed her. And so if there was any chance she was there, no matter how small, I wanted you to be able to see her again.

Gwen: I... I don't know what to say, except... thank you. Thank you so much!

Gwen: And... if you're ever in need, I'll be there. I promise. Whatever happens, I'll always be your friend. Always.

--Axwind 19:59, 28 March 2009 (UTC)

I think you are getting very very carried away with your creativity. Maybe you can write a play or something and make money instead of wasting time here (I'm not kidding, it looks like you have the talent for it). And seriously, only a small number of characters actually get involved with Gwen in Pre. Most people play through it once, and all other characters just grab a second profession an leave. Very few will linger there again for the "prettiness" or LDoA. And Perma-Pre's will never see grown up Gwen, so they don't count at all. This is the kind of issue that very few people care about, and it's not a bug or a broken game feature that will benefit most players if fixed, so it's unlikely to get much attention, if any.
In the end, if you want to carry on this topic, I think you should make a sub-page on your account and summarize your ideas and the dialogues you posted here, clean them up and make them presentable. As it is, this topic is so unorganized, long-winded and full of "junk" that it will probably never be read by Linsey or anyone else from Anet. Rose Of Kali 21:35, 30 March 2009 (UTC)

I guess you missed the whole point of what I was trying to say. If a character has the tapestry shred in EOTN, then that means Gwen knew that character in pre. That means that she should at times talk to him or her differently than she would someone she just met. And that their previous meeting and brief friendship in pre should be acknowledged outside of the one quest that at this time we have with her. Gwen wouldn't have become a popular character with an entire expansion pack named after her if a considerable amount of people hadn't already spent time with her in pre getting her items and letting her follow them around. Would you treat someone, even someone you didn't know that well, like a stranger even if you had met them before, Rose? I doubt that. The continuity in regards to that part of Gwen's story is broken because there is no indication outside that one quest that she and a Prophecies hero ever met. Even though they did, if your character in EOTN is a PH with a tapestry shred. There should have been references outside that quest to the fact that they already knew each other. But there weren't. It's a clear error on Anet's part.

In the book you fill for EOTN, your character writes about her as though he or she had never met her before EOTN, even if said character was PH with a tapestry shred, in which case he or she did meet her before and should have written about her a little differently to reflect that. Another error by Anet. What I want is for the continuity to be repaired, and the easiest way to do that is through revisions to the dialogue in places. Just building on the existing dialogue, not starting over. Most of what I posted is already there in the game, I just added a few lines and revised a few others. And added one extra scene. Well, two, but the second is for any character, not just a PH, because it's just strange that Gwen wouldn't thank our character for taking her to see her mother when it obviously meant a great deal to her. A handful of dialogue revisions and a pair of short extra scenes isn't all that much work, really. At least it shouldn't be, not when the base to work from is already there. And this small bundle of changes would fix the continuity so that the reunion with Gwen is as it always should have been. But I guess, Rose, you missed the fact that several people here are in agreement with me, and another on Bobby's page agrees as well. So do some folks on the GWO and Guru boards. So I'm not alone. Other people want this, too. And more than you think. --Axwind 04:35, 31 March 2009 (UTC)