User:Wuhy/Suggestions

yes, this is a suggestion

→ moved from User talk:Linsey Murdock

pls nerf the shit out of dsc, its fucking retarded and annoying that ppl who dont have monks cant do it, i didnt want to make 1 just get the damn title at the weekend but with dsc, u only had to grind 30 hrs(normally 60) to max the title from 0 to 10mil and thats sick.. you gotta do 200 runs of ferndale to do it otherwise...it takes 150hrs(for some ppl 200) even with my record of 32 mins full clear both quests (i average 38mins with friend 42 solo) to max it with ferndale and its hard(ish) unlike dsc... u kno, this is class restriction the reasons why u nerfed ursan(also coz of grind), or amatz(i have both sin and war BUT NO DAMN MONK>.< and i dont want to have)...amatz was the same rly, tho this crap still exists... nerfing 600/smite all around would be the best solution, dont fucking touch dt, also while ur at it, 25/90 SF too, something like current functionality would be good in pve but u die when the ench ends not lose hp or wtf and if recast, you also die...atm 80% of the classes are not viable in pve coz there is better stuff - Wuhy 86.101.134.142 20:27, 25 May 2009 (UTC)

Is it really that hard to follow rules posted in big red boxes at the top of the screen? --★KOKUOU★ 20:31, 25 May 2009 (UTC)

Might also help if you spelled out what needs to be fixed. What's DSC? Where is it abused?

Would it be Dungeon Speed Clear ? ( on a second thought i am always wrong, so that cant be ). Yseron - 90.15.176.226 20:52, 25 May 2009 (UTC)

There are no dungeons in Factions. Raine - talk 20:54, 25 May 2009 (UTC)

A 'The Deep' Speed Clear then ? Or at least 'Something' Speed Clear ? Yseron - 90.15.176.226 20:59, 25 May 2009 (UTC)

Deep? Speed Clear? How much can I charge for this? =o Raine - talk 21:01, 25 May 2009 (UTC)

For the record, I'm pretty sure he's talking about Drazach Thicket speed clearing. --★KOKUOU★ 21:14, 25 May 2009 (UTC)

If I was a game designer, I'd have a lot of research to do to even know what he's talking about. Even if it's the Deep/Drazach Speed Clear he's referring to, what build do monks use to clear it? Do you need a team? Why is it so fast? Is there some place we can get more info? -- Alaris 21:32, 25 May 2009 (UTC)

Found info... here. -- Alaris 21:39, 25 May 2009 (UTC)

No matter how many times I go in and nerf a farming spot, another will always appear. This is how the game is. You can get into the trap of grinding at a farm spot, or you can chose to do what is enjoyable for you to do in the game. If I nerf every farm that comes up, people are just going to always be bummed out about something fun going away again. This isn't something that is making it impossible for you to play. There are alternative, fun ways to get faction. Lots of them. - Linsey talk 01:17, 26 May 2009 (UTC)

In many cases, it is not the spot, but the build. If a very specific spot can be farmed with certain builds, that's not a problem. The problem comes when a single farming build that works too well works almost everywhere, like happened with ursanway, and so some areas become made almost ONLY with those certain specific builds, since it's impossible to do them alone, and finding people to play the areas normalle turns out almost impossible, since practically everyone else is using he gimmick. This problem is more acute the harder the area is, and the more expensive the rewards given in there, thus giving more and better rewards to those that do not play in group or group leaving almost all other professions out. The change in Ursan Blessing removed the 'godmode' button from all professions, but there are a few that kept it in other ways. Either everyone, or no one, you must choose. MithTalk 05:05, 26 May 2009 (UTC)

^what mith sayin tbh - Wuhy 86.101.134.142 17:02, 26 May 2009 (UTC)

I would hardly call Drazach Thicket a difficult area which can only be done using a single build. I don't think that argument is applicable here. - Linsey talk 18:02, 26 May 2009 (UTC)

rofl linsey, the DIFFERENCE is that DSC can clear it in 12 mins, while other ppl do it in 35-45 mins - Wuhy 86.101.134.142 18:21, 26 May 2009 (UTC)

Hm... yes and no. This is just one case. That's true, but it's also one example of a bigger... let's call it 'issue'. This area is the one chosen because it's the faster one, and also has quests to increase faction gain, that it, it is the 'extreme', the top over the top. But the 'tool' used to make this area in less than 15 minutes can be used in many other areas, and it is used. This is just the 'famous example'. The area is fine, there's nothing to change in the area. But what is used to finish this area in record time works in whole lot of other places too. Not just this one. MithTalk 02:57, 27 May 2009 (UTC)

^yep - Wuhy 86.101.134.142 05:18, 27 May 2009 (UTC)

If you don't wish to use this build and want to play it a different way, that is your choice. Other people using this build is not having any negative impact on the way you play, you are just mad that because they are using this build it is taking them less time than it does you. Again, this is your choice. There is always going to be someone doing something faster/easier, and seeming to gain "more", but why should that matter to you? Maxing titles should be about personal achievement, and if you only want your claim to fame to be you can do it all faster/easier than anyone else, you are really missing out on the game. -- Wyn 06:09, 27 May 2009 (UTC)

Of course it doesn't affect you how others play, but.... then why all the previous PvE nerfs? When one thing works well, I don't see a problem, no one does, but if something works 'excessively well', its when they have to look at it. Speed Clears like Drazach Thicket or Underworld are one of those cases. "Why?" you could ask. For the same reason all other PvE nerfs were made. Unless, of course, that reason no longer exists and/or they have decided to stop removing something when it's excessive, in which case the fair thing to do is to bring back what all also worked 'excessively well' for other professions, and add something for the ones never had something like that. MithTalk 11:14, 27 May 2009 (UTC)

rofl wynthyst epic fail, i alrdy mentioned I DONT HAVE A MONK, I DONT WANT TO HAVE A MONK and i dont want to be able to do LESS because not having it, its not my fucking choice, lern2read pls - Wuhy 86.101.134.142 12:09, 27 May 2009 (UTC)

You have a choice. Roll a monk or not. If you choose not to, well, boo, freaking, hoo, too bad. PS: if you want people to "lern2read", please help by them by posting in actual readable manner. That includes less of "you" rendered as "u" and more of proper sentence structure. And actual understanding and practice of what uppercase characters are for. Zweistein 12:29, 27 May 2009 (UTC)

1. monks are gay 2. still class restriction, make it available to 3-4 classes AT LEAST then we can talk, or if not possible, nerf it to the ground...im talking about 600/smite in general, also SF is kinda annoying too but its only farm, this 1 ruins 2 titles (kurz+luxon[mount quinkai also])... i think i pronounced "BUT NO DAMN MONK>.<" quite unambiguous, but if you cant understand it, then pls go see a doctor ty - Wuhy 86.101.134.142 17:27, 27 May 2009 (UTC)

Roll a mesmer with Signet of Illusions and start smiting. Oh, don't have/want to make mesmer? It's a shame. --Arduinna 18:45, 27 May 2009 (UTC)

You don't help much to being take seriously presenting you position in that way, that's for sure. If you just care about titles that's a bit of a problem, since titles, like everything acquired by playing on a game, devalues over time. I see more important to deal with things that are 'too much' than ways that speed up increasing titles, when GW2 in slowly approaching. Yep, everyone can buy a slot an play a monk, but playing with this of that profession should be a matter of taste and gameplay style, not "because everyone does it and it's the only way to get into parties and do what others do 300..600% faster than the rest". 100% faster may be ok, 200% is on the verge of it. But, like I said, in PvE, which is imbalanced by design (different levels, monster and PvE skills, bosses with innate effects like half condition and hex duration or double damage...), what must be take care of is when something is 'too much', just 'too much', not 'a lot'. More than 50 whole explorable areas, some elite areas and some dungeons in much less time than almost any other combination of skills and profession is what I would call 'too much'. MithTalk 19:11, 27 May 2009 (UTC)

<ri> I don't think someone is mad that others are "doing it faster than me". I think people get frustrated that only niche builds/classes/setups are being used for most areas of the game. His OP seemed to have two issues, one was DSC but the other was that only monks are brought along. I think he wants the Monk nerfed to narrow the gap in time taken to clear it. To compare, the fastest Luxon speed clear is Mount Quinkai I think. The difference is people who do this do it with anyone at all. No specific build is required so if you want to clear the place and grind your title or just get faction you can do it on any character you enjoy playing and easily find others to group with. This is a problem in most areas of the game, too many classes are sooooooo good at doing something (Sins in UW?) that the incentive to bring another class is gone and it prevents real groups from forming for those areas. Although it is possible to do it with a PuG or friends with non niche builds, this option is actually less effective in execution (will be harder to complete and likely take a lot longer) it is also more effort and time to form this group than you would need to join an UWSC with a permasin. If monks are too good at DSC then no-one will want to play with your ranger, no matter how kick ass you might be on him because he can't compete. Having other options is one thing, making those options attractive enough by comparison to the "niche" to make a quick and decent balanced group forming a viable option is another. The reality is, if monks weren't so desperately needed for healing/protection (and two for each group) most Z quest teams would use them for DPS because RoJ is just that good. 58.110.63.86 19:35, 27 May 2009 (UTC)

^y - Wuhy 86.101.134.142 12:23, 28 May 2009 (UTC)

Just my 2 cents: the main problem is about two overpowered builds: Permaform and 600/smite. Both needs to be nerfed, as they outshine every other professions.

@wyn: "Other people using this build is not having any negative impact on the way you play, you are just mad that because they are using this build it is taking them less time than it does" They are in fact having negative impact on my play, as I am restricted to use only my monk or my assassin if I want to do a pug, which (pugging) is something I, and many others like to do when we don't have guildies online, or they already started a long area (like DoA) and we can't play with them. Boro 19:23, 13 June 2009 (UTC)

Another One

Make the entire map into 1 big, you zoom the same as now, remove the ship icons, you still gotta do the quests to travel between campaigns, but you dont have to zone 3 times to reach Abaddon's Gate for example, only once because upon clicking on the vortex, you can now choose to view the map of the Realm of Torment... Also good because you know what is where exactly... - Wuhy 20:33, 5 June 2009 (UTC)

This isn't possible from a technical standpoint. - Linsey talk 18:57, 14 June 2009 (UTC)

And what about showing a map without being in that campaign? For example, clicking the Vortex to show the torment map instead traveling to the gate of torment. Can that be done? MithTalk 23:32, 14 June 2009 (UTC)

^what Mith said, that would do too... - Wuhy 00:23, 16 June 2009 (UTC)

also, there could be a window you could open up with a key or a key combo and simply write in the name of the outpost like:

"Gate of Anguish; America - English - 1", if you want you could leave the semicolon and the district if it does not matter, also, if you write in a district that does not exist, you will be put in the district with the highest number of that region (example: you write in "Kamadan, Jewel of Istan; America - English 15", while there is only 6 districts available, you will be put into the sixth one) - Wuhy 00:58, 5 July 2009 (UTC)

That's way more complicated than just showing the maps without being in the region. MithTalk 13:30, 5 July 2009 (UTC)

;D - Wuhy 10:47, 7 July 2009 (UTC)

It isn't technically possible to show the world map of a campaign you are not currently located in. This isn't something we could do at all, ever. We can't make it so you can type in where you want to go to travel there, either. - Linsey talk 18:34, 24 July 2009 (UTC)

lol ur awsum answering here ;D, btw why not? :-) - Wuhy 22:47, 26 July 2009 (UTC)

Don't tell me the map icons are changed when you change regions and showing the map of another region would show that regions with the icons of the current region... I always was afraid of that possibility... T-T. Hm... it seems that all that's left is a way to save some 'favorite' locations... could that be possible? To tag the outpost number you are in to be saved into a list so you can go back there from other campaign without having to visit the Port town like when you go back from the Guild Hall? MithTalk 14:35, 27 July 2009 (UTC)

Retard reputation titles

→ moved from User talk:Linsey Murdock)

It would be good if i wouldnt have to grind these on every char of mine for maximum effect, make an NPC who can make them their ranks from 1-10 unlocked and u would only have to talk to that npc to teach you the maximum lvl, I'd even pay 1k/skill for not having to grind GRIND GRIND GRIND moar, but pls make it free, ty - Wuhy 19:46, 11 June 2009 (UTC)

What part of no suggestions are people finding so hard to grasp? -- Salome 20:17, 11 June 2009 (UTC)

People can post suggestions; they just can't be commented on. Raine - talk 20:24, 11 June 2009 (UTC)

omfg ignore that shit, respond instead - Wuhy 20:25, 11 June 2009 (UTC)

Okay then, what part of "they arent going to respond to suggestions" do people not grasp? -- Salome 20:30, 11 June 2009 (UTC)

I got an idea: let's print it on a booty, the grasp rate should increase. Yseron - 90.9.251.157 21:00, 11 June 2009 (UTC)

People can, but out of respect for Linsey and her request, they really shouldn't. It's just going to be archived and all it does is clutter up her page and make it harder for people's browsers to load and for Wyn and others to keep it tidy. Emily's already said they're close to completing the new wording regarding suggestions, so just wait until that happens. Sometimes I feel like this page is a car on its way to Disneyland, and the back seat is full of kids asking, "Are we there yet?!?!?!" --★KOKUOU★ 01:36, 12 June 2009 (UTC)

@Yseron: they've already done that in the past. And they made the difference between rank 1 and rank 10 smaller. And they added Zaishen Quests that can help you with reputation points. Rank 10 on multiple characters is purely cosmetic anyway. 145.94.74.23 06:21, 12 June 2009 (UTC)

But there is a difference. which is a horrible game design for gw. Boro 06:27, 12 June 2009 (UTC)

I think Yseron meant if we put the message on/with/by the picture of someone's booty, then more people will get the message not to post suggestions. --★KOKUOU★ 06:39, 12 June 2009 (UTC)

Kokuou win ! Perfect ! Yseron - 90.29.181.230 07:07, 12 June 2009 (UTC)

Well, I have been working out lately. Thanks for noticing. ^_^ o.o >:| What do you mean you weren't referring to me >:) 000.00.00.00 07:13, 12 June 2009 (UTC)

That wasn't the comment I was replying to, so ignore my earlier comment please. Also Boro, it's not horrible design: it allows players who enjoy to level to do so beyond level 20, while (and at the same time) allows people who don't like it to use the skills at an almost similar power level. It's really not that hard to reach level 3 or 4 (try not to reach it while playing normally :p) and then the practical difference is really negliable, unless you need it for a certain farm or something. 145.94.74.23 06:55, 13 June 2009 (UTC)

It is horrible for GW. If someone wants to grind, I don't care, as long as grind doesn't make them stronger than those who don't grind. Boro 07:09, 13 June 2009 (UTC)

And the differences are so small, that in practice the grind doesn't make a player better than another one. Pain Inverter is broken at level 1 AND level 10. 145.94.74.23 22:14, 15 June 2009 (UTC)

UWSC mnts, with r2 ebon, ur time is 25 mins, with r10 ebon, ur time is 15 mins - Wuhy 00:21, 16 June 2009 (UTC)

or 7 lol - Wuhy 10:48, 7 July 2009 (UTC)

I though the record was 8. Who broke it? MithTalk 01:12, 8 July 2009 (UTC)

http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/showthread.php?t=10212734&page=6 check here, i didnt read the entire post but i recognized the 6 min mt - Wuhy 18:09, 8 July 2009 (UTC)

Update

→ moved from User talk:Linsey Murdock

i like your updates, they are generally good but 1.:melshot's nerf was too harsh, 10 sec would be more than enough, 2.:still loads of useless bow attacks in the trash bin and rangers keep getting nerfed all the time. - Wuhy 23:53, 6 August 2009 (UTC)

also, no shadow form and 600/smite nerf disappoints me, but w/e i dont even pve anymore - Wuhy 23:55, 6 August 2009 (UTC)

I liked the update since it proves you actually play the game.Although the AoE buffs are power creepish I like most of it ^^ Lilondra *poke* 07:45, 7 August 2009 (UTC)

No shadow form/MB/600smite nerf, coupled with some good changes for pvp... One thumb up, one down. --Boro 08:13, 7 August 2009 (UTC)

good update :), I think I'l take my pet outside more now :) --Ellisia 09:23, 7 August 2009 (UTC)

Update feedback there --Boro 10:02, 7 August 2009 (UTC)

Thank you for the Bug Fixes and The Update, especially the Ranger/Pet..Big THANK YOU-MystiLefemEle 11:00, 7 August 2009 (UTC)

Pet change is sweet. ...Just wish the original discussion had stayed here where people could see it and be like "Wow, that was a fast response!" ...(instead of on my page, I dunno WTH to do with it now). --ilr 11:16, 7 August 2009 (UTC)

pet change is pve only, the only other thing we got is a bow-nerf, as you did with dagger attacks, consider buffing bow attacks too(hint:they cost too much, they are useless besides savage/dshot).... - Wuhy 11:48, 7 August 2009 (UTC)

also i dont understand that if you nerf melshot, then why dont you nerf Wounding Strike, Searing Flames, Mind Blast etc... with this mentality, Eviscerate could be trashed aswell(but im not suggesting you to do so) - Wuhy 12:33, 7 August 2009 (UTC)

Sorry to strike your suggestion, but I want to keep this topic flowing and I think you know that thanks to the current licensing issues linsey cant comment to the suggestions. (Although I think we can suggest her to stop driving tanks in the server room. The lag I had two days ago was unbearable.  :-) (NOTE: THAT WAS A JOKE!!!)) --Boro 15:56, 7 August 2009 (UTC)

no probs lol, lincensing still not done? =/ - Wuhy 16:10, 7 August 2009 (UTC)

No. I think they will release it with GW2 --Boro 16:16, 7 August 2009 (UTC)

Pretty cool update! From the monster point of view, it'll be interesting to see how the dervish buffs in particular affect the difficulty of mobs... I know that right now, I'm much happier seeing dervish enemies than warriors, for instance, because the dervs are just too squishy. They die so fast that their higher DPS often doesn't make a difference. Wars by contrast take much longer to kill, and end up being more of a threat because of that. I'm looking forward to seeing what buffed derv defence does to this state of affairs. -- Hong 16:24, 7 August 2009 (UTC)

lol - Wuhy 17:19, 7 August 2009 (UTC)

Madness titans are a pain in the butt now. 24.26.253.105 18:19, 7 August 2009 (UTC)

Sad that arenanet thinks adding pewpew and aoe is the way of making skills usable --Boro 18:56, 7 August 2009 (UTC)

Shadow Form, MB and 600Smite are all problems with the format they are prevalent in. I don't want to nerf SF (though I think about it for every update), I want to fix the problems in UW/FoW/DoA. I'm still on the fence about 600smite on whether I should hit the build itself or the areas that are supposed to be high-end yet can be farmed with it. We have been discussing the MB ele at length, but as we see it, the problem is with the tiebreaker not the build. There are other builds that do the same thing as the MB ele, so just nerfing it isn't actually going to fix anything. So we are going to continue to work on the tiebreaker instead. Changes like that need more careful consideration than normal so it takes longer to get something onto Live. - Linsey talk 18:57, 7 August 2009 (UTC)

I was right about you linsey xD . me : 1 Boro : 0 No seriously in general it was a good update.Just a bit afraid to get a powercreep again.I loved the oldschool buffs (windborne for example) Lilondra *poke* 18:59, 7 August 2009 (UTC)

Fine. The reason to nerf permaform is that its 3 skills and 30 energy every 1.1111 seconds, while the next thing that comes relatively close to that effect takes 2 characters AND 10 skills AND 2.25 energy per second. after/instead of nerfing shadow form, it is a good idea to change the AI to stop attacking foes not taking damage, or just stop attacking when blinded. 600/smite needs changed in the way that the damage from holy wrath is from the smiter, and the foes can track the source of damage and respond according to it. not that its a flame it is my viewpoint --Boro 19:19, 7 August 2009 (UTC)

Wanting to redesign areas is definitely a good thing, but SF is a beast that is going to require very specific counters to ensure it doesn't function the way it does now. It will be a much easier task to rework the elite zones without having to take into account one specific build that makes you immune to almost everything in the game. Regarding 600Smite, do you want something in your game that becomes more effective in Hard Mode compared to normal? Do you want something that functions better if the player is wearing no armor at all? Similar arguments to the 55 builds, do you want something that functions better by exploiting what is supposed to be a penalty? Racthoh 19:27, 7 August 2009 (UTC)

linsey, dont promote farming, promote interesting gameplay, there could be realms for melandru/dwayna/lyssa for example, so that its complete and it would be awesome rly... u can revamp fow/uw skill bars too and give monsters interesting stuff.. nerf sf and enough of the excuses, its bad for the game, and you know that. wonderful fix for mb ele: make mind blast remove 1 enchantment upon cast - Wuhy 20:00, 7 August 2009 (UTC)

Huh? Could someone explain this Tiebreaker thing really quick? ...like why it would be commonplace? Is there too much turtling going on? B/c if it was too much turtling, I think all of us could relate to it better... --ilr 21:35, 7 August 2009 (UTC)

Linsey, you said you don't want to nerf Shadow Form, you want to fix what's wrong with the UW/FoW/DoA areas that can be farmed with them without fixing the build itself. This is not possible. The UW, FoW, and DoA are for the most part well-designed and don't have any blaring problems. Ordinarily, when I do this, it's because I think the person reading is stupid, but that's not the case where I'm going to do it here. However, I dont' know if you guys are aware of how big of a problem SF is, so I'm going to apply a bunch of property tags to this statement so even if you're just skimming through this you'll hopefully bother to read it: Players who do not run Shadow Form cannot play UW or FoW, and only very rarely get to play DoA. The problem is not the UW, FoW, DoA, or any other farmable area. It is not that the areas themselves are flawed, or the monsters are being dumb. It is that they cannot do anything against the players. I want you to try finding a group for UW, FoW, or Tombs -- no, I dare you to try to find one without whispering any friends or guildmates. Obviously, you can't do it on your admin account or any account you've made public knowledge that you use, but if you can honestly put together a FoW group that gets past the Tower of Courage (the first quest in the FoW) or a UW group that gets past the Reaper of the Labyrinth (the first Reaper in the UW), I will seriously give you 100 platinum in-game (and really, I don't expect you to be able to put together a standard party at all, but I'm kind of broke so I don't wanna spend that much money unless I'm really amazed).
The tl;dr of this post is: the areas of the game that shadow formers frequent are no longer playable except in guild parties and "friend" groups, which very rarely happen. Shadow Form and the entire concept of Speed Clearing need to go.
With that said, I don't like to end what looks like an incoherent rant on a negative note, so I will say that this month's update was mostly pretty satisfactory, though I'm going to miss Sand Shards. Making raptors go LOLB00M was fun. Also, I you for bringing back boon prots (in pog form). --Jette 21:50, 7 August 2009 (UTC)

It's also a broken skill in other areas. Hardmode Eternal Grove and Dzagonur Bastion, for instance, can be made pretty much trivial with just one permasin (it can block up one side, allowing the rest of the party to gang up on everything else instead of making a meaningful split). I'll admit to being glad to have them at the time (Dzagonur was at the end of a long day and there were few players left, Grove at the end of a day where my connection kept failing me just as I got a half-decent group...) but it also made me feel a little dirty. It's not as MUCH of a problem as the speedclear phenomenon of course, since other professions can usually still find places, but it's still one of the most powerful if not THE most powerful PvE build pretty much anywhere. In more general terms: Love the pet update, but I think I'm going to miss the old Sand Shards. Draxynnic 15:20, 8 August 2009 (UTC)

Great work, instead of doing a skill balancing you've created even more button smashing gimmick builds. I suppose that's what most people want and look forward to these days but I believe it's a tragedy what Izzy, and now you have done to PvP. It's impossible to understand why time and time again dartboard skill buffs are seen as a solution to game imbalance, it's like trying to remedy a headache with a cattle prod to the face. Zen` 21:54, 7 August 2009 (UTC)

Wouldn't a buff to other bow attacks (Punishing Shot, Quick Shot, Poison Arrow, slight buff to Cripshot) have been more appropriate than a nerf to Melandru's Shot? Rangers are lacking versitality due to lack of viable options, not because their current skills are OP. And if Melshot really did need a nerf, 10 seconds would have been fine in my opinion. --68.50.253.106 23:43, 7 August 2009 (UTC)

I just had to pop in to say a big thank you! I haven't had a chance to really explore the pet changes yet and decide how I really like them (terrible timing for having to work overtime!), but in your first balance update that really affects rangers you listened to us and gave us the Charm/Comfort combination we've been asking for for so long. Thank you SO much for listening! It feels great to be heard after all this time.  ;) I expect great things from you. --Jenosavel 01:57, 8 August 2009 (UTC)

ZOMG, the pet buff is more awesome than I originally thought, My Pets-Team just got the Bonus on Ruins or Morah ...accidentally -- Thanks Linsey! --ilr 04:35, 8 August 2009 (UTC)

(Reset indent) Great update! Thanks, Linsey. Don't listen to Zen, he's an idiot. - Reanimated X 06:08, 8 August 2009 (UTC)

1: No NPA. 2: No NPA on linseys page. 3: Zen at least looks like someone who begins to understand game balance. -----

ontopic: Shadow form is broken. Speed clears shouldnt exist. The problem with 600/smite is that it exploits an otherwise penalty mechanic of a game, so at the very least its an exploit that should be fixed. From my personal view a game balancer should fix the exploits, not the areas they farm (and I think you want to fix elite areas by buffing the monsters to an even more broken level). The problem with those builds is that they are simply broken. --Boro 08:37, 8 August 2009 (UTC)

Shadow Form is the Signet of Ghostly Might of pve. ~Shard 09:03, 8 August 2009 (UTC)

The old bugged Signet of Ghostly Might of course. --Boro 11:01, 8 August 2009 (UTC)

Shard your wrong SoGM builds only kill your opponents.SF builds also keep you alive Lilondra *poke* 13:12, 8 August 2009 (UTC)

So perma shadow form is more broken than a skill that caused a ladder reset and you didn't want to nerf it. I think releasing an instant 25/90 build is the absolute minimum in this case. --Boro 13:20, 8 August 2009 (UTC)

Don't listen to anyone, just nerf everything. ---Chaos- 15:06, 8 August 2009 (UTC)

Great update, but I've noticed that even with the new buffs, pets still do less than half the damage I do. Even with Feral Aggression active. I don't know that I've ever seen my pet hit for above 30 in a single strike before, unless the enemy was many levels lower. And if you want both yourself and your pet to be effective and have a reasonable Expertise score, you have to gimp your health via major/superior runes to get your attributes high enough. Not complaining, just letting you know. Haven't had a chance to try out the Derv stuff, but it'll be fun to play around with my build and see how the new buffs work. --Axwind 18:07, 8 August 2009 (UTC)

I already tried the dervish changes and they're really solid... with the exception of Piety o/c. Simply put: it's wrong to keep it in Wind Prayers, esp ever since P-Rage got whacked twice while Onslaught was already superior to begin with. ...It's almost like they're TRYING to get everyone to roll W/D's just to piss the Scythe Nerf-Herders off --ilr 19:57, 8 August 2009 (UTC)

From what I've heard/read from other players RA is an absolutely nightmare for physicals because of Vow of Piety and Armor of Sanctity. Probably wouldn't be too bad if AoS inflicted something like Bleeding instead of Weakness, especially since it's a 1/4 cast PBAoE Weakness on a 5 second recharge. Remember how bad Enfeeble was when it was in the GvG meta? Horrid for physicals. Also I haven't seen any yet but I'm pretty sure those E/Ds that have been causing problems are going to be just as strong once they start using Vow of Piety now. Combined with the Sentry's Insignia you're looking at a 100+ AL ranged split character with infinite energy and great survivability. Racthoh 22:20, 8 August 2009 (UTC)

"I don't want to nerf SF (though I think about it for every update), I want to fix the problems in UW/FoW/DoA. I'm still on the fence about 600smite on whether I should hit the build itself or the areas that are supposed to be high-end yet can be farmed with it. " so basically you are thinking of buffing everything else instead of nerfing a single skill. This is not a way to balance things. if you keep to this method you will end up with a skill that kills all foes on sight

5 ¼ 1 , and with foes blowing players up with a single hit. If you remove the spell immunity from SF (along with the health loss), then it will have its farming uses. If you nerf holy wrath to end when energy reaches 0 then you nerf 600/smite (and dont forget to reduce energy loss to 5 this way) without buffing everything else. --Boro 07:17, 9 August 2009 (UTC)

Except that PvE mobs use the same exact stats on powers in PvE that we use. And several skills in their current state supposedly counter Shadow Form. It's only a matter of time till better AI and other skills counter the other gimmicks as well. --ilr 09:28, 9 August 2009 (UTC)

How many of the skills on that list are capable of removing the Shadowform, because none of those skills are capable of one shotting an assassin from full health. Since an assassin is capable of maintaining Shadowform indefinitely they'll never be hit by the massive health loss thus still possessing a cushion of health to keep them up until whatever using those skills dies. In any case a skill like this should just not exist, regardless of the speeds it allows players to clear areas at. Invincibility is a bad concept, no matter the ifs. "Save Yourselves!" is a skill in the same boat, it's incredible hard to die when that skill is around and there are also so very few skills that deal with it, and even though "Save Yourselves!" isn't responsible for Underworld Hard Mode clears in 30 minutes it should be dealt with too. I don't care if not everyone is clearing Underworld that fast with Shadowform the sheer potential and concept of the skill should not exist. It is bad design, period. Are those areas to fault as well? Partly. Maybe it has something to do with skills like Enrage, maybe it has something to do with the arbitrary increase of damage/critical hits as a result of level difference. Being told the area will be redesigned to deal with the skill doesn't instill much hope to be honest given the track record we've seen. Dying Nightmares were supposed to be a solution. Scarabs where the griffin farmers used to go? Zone reworks haven't helped in the passed so why should this intention be any different? You can't begin to balance an area if the skills we have access to are just going to break whatever counter isn't present. Racthoh 11:13, 9 August 2009 (UTC)

(Reset indent) I have yet again tagged this topic as suggestions and the next person to remove it will be banned as per the notice at the top of this page. -- Wyn talk 14:16, 9 August 2009 (UTC)

banning a thread does not make your point valid, wyn - Wuhy 18:20, 9 August 2009 (UTC)

Thats not wyn's point Lilondra *poke* 18:59, 9 August 2009 (UTC)

The point is from the very start of this topic, people have been making specific suggestions as to they way they would like to see things changed. These are SUGGESTIONS, and legally Linsey is not even suppose to read, let alone comment on them. The notice at the top clearly states that once a suggestion tag is placed, it's suppose to stay, and this one has already been removed TWICE. The feedback namespace is opening up this week, in fact it may even be open by the time this topic is deleted (or you could just move it to your talk page Wuhy if it's that important to you to continue this discussion). It's unfortunate that the comments regarding the update had to get contaminated with all the various suggestions, but that's what happens when people don't think about what they are posting, where, especially when they are fully cognizant of the rules. -- Wyn talk 19:24, 9 August 2009 (UTC)

wtf lil? his point is sf and 600/smite do not need nerfs, and yes, good idea, i will, sec - Wuhy 21:43, 9 August 2009 (UTC)