User talk:J.Kougar/Archive8

ur all baed ninja's First! --Shadowsin 01:37, 15 April 2008 (UTC)

First. — Skakid 01:38, 15 April 2008 (UTC)

Second. --71.229 01:38, 15 April 2008 (UTC)

Nope. --71.229 01:47, 15 April 2008 (UTC)

Third? ~ J.Kougar 01:43, 15 April 2008 (UTC)

No, you're supposed to say "turd." :P Lord Belar 01:53, 15 April 2008 (UTC)

I suppose I am 4th then, XD — ク Eloc 貢 02:53, 15 April 2008 (UTC)

*sigh* talk page ninjas --Myria83 02:54, 15 April 2008 (UTC)

LAST!Godbox 10:07, 15 April 2008 (UTC)

No me. 217.120.229.159 16:01, 15 April 2008 (UTC)

Something more usefull

Nice screenshots --horsedrowner 06:32, 16 April 2008 (UTC)

Thanks. Just added some more, with more yet to come.  ;) ~ J.Kougar 04:54, 17 April 2008 (UTC)

Wow

I just read your beauty of ascalon page, and I freaking love it. I'm a presearing fan myself; its the only place (to me, at least) where there is true beauty in the scenery. it beats deserts, run down cities, and towns of jade, eh? :P but ya, very nice job on that! -- Wandering Traveler 19:38, 17 April 2008 (UTC)

Thank you very much. Someday I'll finish that site, or at the very least update it. lol ~ J.Kougar 19:44, 17 April 2008 (UTC)

Oh, and I agree. It's by far the prettiest place in Guild Wars. ~ J.Kougar 19:45, 17 April 2008 (UTC)

Just updated that page with 22 new images today.  :) ~ J.Kougar 04:11, 27 April 2008 (UTC)

Very Nice J.Kougar! :) Dominator Matrix 04:17, 27 April 2008 (UTC)

Thank you.  :) ~ J.Kougar 04:22, 27 April 2008 (UTC)

"My Wiki"

You weren't banned unjustly according to the arbitration.(or anyone for that matter) Also on top of that, any arbitration once invoked maintains the status qou, it's just how things are done. It's not a punishment, its just a logical progression that no action can be taken until a judgement is decided. It was not retaliation, it is just the function of the arbitration process. -- Salome 16:35, 25 April 2008 (UTC)

Salome you are opening a can of worms.... --Shadowphoenix 16:43, 25 April 2008 (UTC)

Yeh i know sweetheart but just annoyed that after all that effort he's still learned nothing from it. Hopefully though we can keep this chat to his and my talk pages, so if it does turn into an argument (which i doubt it will) then it will be constrained to his and my talk pages and not on peoples pages who are likely to get upset. -- Salome 16:46, 25 April 2008 (UTC)

Actually if you read back over the history you'll see that it was agreed upon by others that the first ban was not fair, but it and the second one stuck afterwards because of my breaking the rule about evading a ban in order to question the first ban instead of just sitting on the sidelines and accepting an unfair ban.

As for the rest, well, that's some nice opinions you have there but I'd really prefer if you didn't express them on my talk page. Just don't want to drag up a bunch of old drama and argue about things long past that are now irrelevant. Thanks. ~ J.Kougar 17:30, 25 April 2008 (UTC)

I thought it was unjust, so the comment "or anyone for that matter" is blatantly false. And as for "learned nothing from it..." Wtf? Is that what arbcom is, some kinda Orwellian "re-education" process?? Sheesh. Koogs - ignore that drekk. Fox (talk|contribs) 17:35, 25 April 2008 (UTC)

@ Shadow & Fox - Sokay, I won't let his personal bias for me and his desire to stir up drama bate me into an irrelevant discussion that can't change anything or have an effect on since past events. The one user on this wiki that I had issues with has now been replaced (in status) with a wonderful new person, and since I have no further issues with anyone I'm not going to debate things that are already done and gone.  :) ~ J.Kougar 17:37, 25 April 2008 (UTC)

comment on Image:Deldrimor Staff (unique).jpg

Quote: No offence, but since I took and made this image and uploaded it under the original file name, I'd also like to be the one to claim it here. I did put a lot of work into it, and you didn't even give credit to where you got it from. Thanks [emphasis added]

Um... a wiki isn't supposed to be about "claiming" things and getting "credit" for them. It's supposed to be a collaborative effort among all users to provide the best information possible about its subject. There's a reason that GWW:IMAGE disallows user copyright/credit on screenshots, and it's given in the licensing box under that image: "This screenshot is the property of ArenaNet," not the property of J Kougar or whoever else uploads it. 75.33.107.9 01:43, 26 April 2008 (UTC)

Yes, but if I take the time to load up two accounts on two computers and use my large monitor with high resolution and spiffy graphics card to make some quality images for use on the wiki, I'm going to be a little offended and actually mind if someone else comes alone and takes the content and posts it as their own. If you were actually a registered user and you took the time to make a page on the wiki to help others with, or submitted images that you worked on, would you not mind at all if someone came along and took the image or copied your page exactly and claimed it as their own work?

The only credit you get for actually putting in your time and effort on a wiki is the little bit of text with your name on it when you make a submission and the listing of it in your submissions information. If I could slap a big bold "ScreenShot By J.Kougar" across the image then yea, I'd not care if anyone else uploaded it because it would still be clear, but since you don't do that on a wiki the upload/edit info/history is the only credit you get. ~ J.Kougar 03:26, 26 April 2008 (UTC)

If that's not enough for you, then...

Don't get me wrong - I'm not discounting the work you do. But that is all the credit you get - and thus why the history pages are so much more important than many people think of them as. -- Armond Warblade 06:02, 26 April 2008 (UTC)

You completely missed my point - what I was trying to say is that anyone who submits work to this wiki should not be concerned with "credit" at all. If you are that concerned with getting recognition for your work, then don't put it here. This applies to any kind of edit, of course, but especially to screenshot uploads: the {{screenshot}} license template specifically says that credit for all screenshots belongs to Arena.net, not to any individual user.

When I create something truly original, yes, I want credit for it. Taking screenshots from a video game, cropping them, and making a collage of them doesn't really count as original work, though; that would fall squarely under derivative works - thus, the {{screenshot}} template and the policy against credits on screenshots. In essence, nearly everything on this wiki (at least in the Main space) is a derivative work of Guild Wars, meaning none of the contributors can take credit for any of it as original work.

So no, I wouldn't mind "if someone came along and took the image" because, if they reupload it, they are not "claiming it as their own work." The only thing the history of an image page says is who uploaded the image. They could have taken the image from you, or from GuildWiki, or from a post on GWG/GWO - there is nothing on the image history that says the user who uploaded the image created the image. And since the ultimate originator of the content in all screenshots is Arena.net anyway, the point is quite moot.

Oh, and sorry also for not realizing I wasn't logged in before. While I haven't contributed much to this wiki, my contributions list at GuildWiki, while not exactly awe-inspiring, is certainly nothing to sneeze at. —Dr Ishmael 06:37, 26 April 2008 (UTC)

Well Kougar, I don't bother trying to take 'credit' for the massive hours I put in trying to get the images properly displayed in the Unique Items galleries, I just do what it takes to get them there. Had you uploaded the image to both pages to make that happen, none of this discussion would have even been necessary.-- Wynthyst 07:08, 26 April 2008 (UTC)

@ Wynthyst - I honestly didn't think that we'd have to go to such great redundancy to have the same picture under multiple names, that's why I didn't. There is only one skin, so I figured all articles about a weapon with that skin could just link to that image. Had I realized that the same image needed to be uploaded to multiple places I would have. Next time I'll know.

Before when people have posted a screenshot that wasn't their own work, they added in the description ScreenShot from UserNameHere as to credit the original submission... I've that many times, and I didn't think it would have been that big of a deal to have done that in this case, but you did not. Either way, it's taken care of now and wasn't worth all this discussion.

@ Armond - I think you missed the point. That credit is enough for me, and the helping of people who want to see the item/boss/NPC/armor/etc. from my shots... this wasn't the issue, the issue is what my submissions were being re-uploaded again with my mention of who submitted them, so I wasn't even getting that basic credit. That basic credit is fine, but I do at least want that, and when I see it given by others when they have to re-upload someone else's image, I know it's not so hard to show that small courtesy.

@ Dr_ishmael - Obviously you don't take the time to load up two computers and two accounts and take high quality and resolution ScreenShots in .bmp format and then take them through two other imaging programs to make sure that the file is large enough to display all the details but small enough in file size to be viewed easily. Sure, the generic taking of a ScreenShot and then cropping and saving it at some horrid quality is easy and if that's what I was doing, like most users do, then I wouldn't really care either... but when people do that the shots look horrid. I put effort into mine, and since I've seen people add a little line of text to credit the original poster before, since that's such a simple courtesy that common sense should call for, I at least want that small acknowledgment for my work... it's not that much to ask for. Even when people steal images off of GuildWiki and post them here they often post a credit to the original poster and GuildWiki. Just common respect in my opinion, but I'm sorry if you don't feel the same. ~ J.Kougar 15:10, 26 April 2008 (UTC)

I think this is being taken way too far. Kougar, screenshots are taken to help the wiki. As long as the subject is clear, it's helping the wiki. If you choose to take it through whatever you take it through, that's your own choice -- but it helps the wiki just as much as everything else. I don't really appreciate your comment that registration is required to make valid contributions, but I'm letting it pass. Credit isn't required for screenshots, but it's just common courtesty -- if that credit isn't given, it's courteous to not show a flaw in that courtesy. As long as your screenshot helped people see what the subject was about, be glad that you helped the wiki -- even if it was indirectly. The majority of people who view the article to view the image won't even click the image page (or see who uploaded it), so it's a moot point.

I suggest this isn't taken any further. -- Brains12 \ Talk 15:18, 26 April 2008 (UTC)

No, registration is required to upload images, that's not my opinion that's just basic fact of how the wiki works.

I have to disagree that a dark, small, poorly done image that doesn't let you see the subject very well, is of the same help to the wiki as a quality image. I just can't see how you figure that to be true.

As far as not taking this any further... uh... what? I didn't hurt anything when I re-uploaded a couple images a day or so ago that I had originally posted, and this discussion only started because someone who doesn't feel you should even get the simplest bit of recognition for your work and effort, posted here on my talk-page to disagree, so we began debating on it the common courtesy behind giving people credit for their effort is valid or not. I don't see how this is any big deal that we are discussing this on my talk page, or why SysOp intervention would be needed in such a calm and simple discussion. People just seem to love to try and make a huge fuss over the simplest of things... is there really so little drama on the wiki right now that people are trying their best to start some? lol ~ J.Kougar 15:30, 26 April 2008 (UTC)

Wow Brain, the veiled threats at banning over this? Aren't you pushing things a wee much here given j.Kougar broke no rules and it's not even a heated discussion?  ;) ~ Sabastian 15:35, 26 April 2008 (UTC)

(Edit conflict) Yes, well.. my suggestion was not direct sysop intervention, it was my personal suggestion to stop this from turning into inflammatory remarks. When people discussing an issue on the internet with no aspect of body language or tone of voice aren't willing to change their minds, it's almost guaranteed to become inflammatory. Considering fairly recent events, I don't see why my suggestion is a big issue.

Sabastian, I am not threatening blocking. I am trying to avoid that, hence why I suggested to not take this issue any further.-- Brains12 \ Talk 15:41, 26 April 2008 (UTC)

I struggle to see any hint towards blocking whatsoever. Lord of all tyria 16:08, 26 April 2008 (UTC)

Have to agree with lord of tyria on this one. Just for future reference Sebastian, is their going to be a limit on the number of times you cry wolf or should we just expect this to become a regular thing now, every time someone disagrees with Kougar? -- Salome 05:16, 27 April 2008 (UTC)

(Reset indent) Okay, people - it's time to move on from this. J.Kougar's request to make a note on the page from where the image came from isn't a completely unreasonable one, and if for some reason there's a similar problem in the future he can always add a note himself; overall it's a fairly minor issue. No need for everyone to get riled up, so let's move on from the sniping comments, overly aggressive accusations, and other nonproductive sidetracks so we can focus on making the wiki a better resource. This is going to sound hypocritical, but it'd be better if no one here tried to get "the last word in", as that just continues the cycle. (Aiiane - talk - contribs) 07:57, 27 April 2008 (UTC)