User talk:Kim Chase/Archive

Welcome to GWW. — ク Eloc 貢 03:30, 18 January 2008 (UTC)

Thank you very much. I'm not experienced with wiki editing, but thankfully there is a lot of great info on the help pages XD
Anyway, I'll try to contribute! -Kim Chase 18:38, 21 January 2008 (UTC)

:) — ク Eloc 貢 03:57, 23 January 2008 (UTC)

Neva seen u before, welcome ~ SCobra 23:59, 23 January 2008 (UTC)

Howdy there! -- Armond Warblade 01:21, 10 February 2008 (UTC)

Inquiring Minds Want to Know

I've heard that you know someone who is the best gentleman of a British tradition. I'm told that he is cleverly refined, very stylish, and kind. Also, ladies enjoy conversation with him. Can you verify this, or is that covered by an NDA? John Stumme 06:07, 17 June 2008 (UTC)

There are certain details that I am not authorized to disclose at this time. All I can say is there is a distinct possibility that there is a British Bistro Bear in our employ. -Kim Chase

Thanks

It seems to me like the QA team never really gets the spotlight much, so here's a thanks to you and the other QA people that work on improving GW in the less-than-flashy sense. :) (Aiiane - talk - contribs) 19:17, 1 July 2008 (UTC)

That's so sweet, thank you! -Kim Chase 19:22, 1 July 2008 (UTC)

Hear, hear! Kim rocks at finding and documenting bugs, and generally keeping us programmer-types on our toes.Josh Petrie 03:14, 2 July 2008 (UTC)

*flail* -Kim Chase 17:06, 2 July 2008 (UTC)

I'm actually glad the Ritualist bugs and the It's just a flesh wound bug was dealt with! I mean by god I play those professions a lot! Can't have them all bugged up! I'll be sure to report more suspicious bugs. Oh yeah, nice job.--ShadowFog 03:24, 26 November 2008 (UTC)

Oh, no problem. I really appreciate everyone that takes the time to report problems, both here and through through support. -Kim Chase 21:13, 26 November 2008 (UTC)

Skill bugs

Was wondering, do you like the current format, is there anything you would like to see improved on? Backsword 16:35, 19 October 2008 (UTC)

Honestly I've never looked at this page before. I see now that this is visible in the AranaNet portal. The rest of the main bug report pages are on Mike Zadorojny's space, which is how I normally access them. I'll take a look at these soon and see how it goes. At a glance, this page is in a much more official format and is on the main page instead of a discussion page, which makes me hesitant to make comments beneath the reports as I have been on the other pages. I suppose I can post on the discussion page when needed. Thank you. -Kim Chase 23:31, 19 October 2008 (UTC)

Kim, if you have feedback on the various skill bugs, (or anything else here for that matter) please feel free to comment on whatever page. If you feel the comment you have to make belongs on the mainpage of the report, I highly doubt anyone is going to fault you. I think they will be thrilled to get your feedback. If you feel more comfortable putting your comments on the associated talk page, that's fine too. -- Wyn 23:45, 19 October 2008 (UTC)

Thank you for the reassurance. This format is just great, by the way. Thank you for putting this together. Like the other pages, we'll be trying to plow through this as we have time. Ah, if I can just get through the Common ones today I'll be happy. Hope you guys are enjoying the start of Halloween! We just put in the new map for Costume Brawl and, personally, I really like it. -Kim Chase 23:35, 24 October 2008 (UTC)

So who's the person at Quality Assurance who actually gets things done instead of making up half-baked excuses why things don't work? ~Shard 08:29, 31 October 2008 (UTC)

This sounds more like a personal attack than a real question. -Kim Chase 19:33, 31 October 2008 (UTC)

Probably, but your comment is about as constructive as his in this situation... -- Armond Warblade{{Bacon}} 19:54, 31 October 2008 (UTC)

Okay. So the statement is that *I* am making up half baked excuses rather than getting things done. There is nothing I can say to that other than to defend myself at my job, which I don't think I should need to do. Several of the bugs that have been fixed in the last few months of updates are from the helpful people that have reported here. I guess the constructiveness I was hoping for from my previous comment was more a plea for civility. If you have a particular complaint let me know about the specific problem rather than a generalization, please. -Kim Chase 20:26, 31 October 2008 (UTC)

I'm sorry, you probably are doing your job as best as you're allowed. I don't think anyone minds that things don't get fixed (sometimes), but with the spirit bond thing, if you leave the mechanics the way they are, the description is still wrong, and yet nobody wants to change it. No offense, but your job title is quality assurance, shouldn't you try to do quality game fixes instead of being lazy?

Also I want to stress that this was not a personal attack, I say "you" meaning "arenanet" or more specifically "The QA department." It just seems that nothing ever gets fixed in a timely fashion (or ever), which isn't "quality."

Spirit Bond isn't the only issue. There are some things in the game that have been working incorrectly since release (like the gates in Golden Gates) that aren't even major bugs, and would take 3 minutes or less of a programmer's busy day to change maybe one word in the game code. Again don't take this the wrong way, but sometimes it's insulting when you say you're "Quality Assurance" and you clearly did not test some aspects of the game (or you just don't care). Remember when you did triple gold drops from hard mode chests weekend, but in the same update, deleted all HM chests from the game? Did you honestly test that? ~Shard 22:52, 31 October 2008 (UTC)

For someone who is claiming not to be making personal attacks, you do seem to be making it a point of repeatedly insulting not only her work ethic, but the work that she does. That kind of attitude is uncalled for. People from ArenaNet do not have to post here. We could have absolutely no interaction with people, and we could leave our game as is. There are companies that do that. Fixing things is never as simple as "It would only take a few minutes of someone's time if they cared." There are considerations to be made for people's time, and if they are doing one thing - it means they aren't doing something else. Scheduling and work-flow, the determining of priorities of what issues to address and when, is a very real part of getting things fixed. And claiming that people don't care is just an insult to some really awesome people who have literally given up years of their lives to make, and maintain this game. Everyone wants this game to be the best that it can be, and we appreciate the fans that help us... so while I understand the sentiment of wanting to see things fixed, you might want to evaluate how you present your cases. Putting people on the defensive isn't the best way to go about things. Especially when you're directing it at people that don't deserve it. John Stumme 23:32, 31 October 2008 (UTC)

The shortened version of John's statement: "Shard is mean. We're working on GW2 currently and don't have time to fix GW anymore. Saying we don't care is also mean. We do care about fixing problems, but the people that can fix them don't." At least that's what I got out of it. I do have to agree with Shard that bugs, including somewhat severe ones, are often not fixed for quite some time after their discovery. While I can certainly see how bugs can be missed in testing, shouldn't it be fairly easy to fix bugs that have been discovered and thoroughly explained by the players? As for scheduling, if any coders are still working on GW, and not entirely focused on GW2, wouldn't they be almost exclusively involved in de-bugging and the like, now that no new expansions are coming? Just curious, and I really wouldn't hold it against you if you say that all of ANet's effort is focused on GW2 and that they aren't very concerned with GW bugs anymore, but please at least be honest with us about it. ¬ «Ðêjh» (talk) 23:58, 31 October 2008 (UTC)

Regarding "shouldn't it be fairly easy to fix bugs that have been discovered and thoroughly explained by the players?" The unfortunately thing is, just because a bug is well-known, well-documented, and easily reproducible doesn't mean that the fix for said bug is quite so clear cut. Sometimes a bug is trivial to notice, but fixing it requires significantly re-engineering large chunks of code (I should note I speak here only as a programmer; bugs related to design and content are beyond my ken) -- and then you start to have to play the cost/benefit game. The more code you change, the higher the chance that you will introduce a new bug while trying to fix the old one.Josh Petrie 00:10, 1 November 2008 (UTC)

...I have no idea what I'm doing wrong with the four-tilde-to-sign thing, but those timestamps are clearly wrong. :( Josh Petrie

As someone that is also I programmer, I know what you mean, and I accept that some things such as the amulet of protection may be extremely complicated to fix because of the way the game was initially designed, but often, from what I see, the bugs should be as simple to fix as adding a line to reset a counter or change the order in which conditions are checked. While I obviously have not seen the source code for GW and can not tell for sure if GW's design would be as easily modified as I would expect from a professionally developed game with constant skill updates, it's the problems that seem like they should be simple to fix but still exist that bug me, no pun intended. ¬ «Ðêjh» (talk) 00:40, 1 November 2008 (UTC)

I can understand your frustration, as a player, with bugs that remain (apparently) unaddressed or fixed in some fashion you don't agree with. This happens to everybody. Even us, and even sometimes with our own games. But as John points out, its not as simple as it may seem. It's not appropriate to direct such ire towards the QA department: they play an indispensable role in the process of fixing bugs, but that role is not neccessarily to actually perform the fixes, nor to make the decision about what will and will not be fixed, nor how it will be fixed if a fix is to be forthcoming. You say that they "clearly did not test" certain aspects of the game, but it's not really possible to determine that -- how do you disambiguate between a bug that was overlooked and a bug that was recorded but that the programmer could not fix yet? The QA team here does excellent work, some of the best I've ever seen working in this industry. To claim that they're lazy is simply ignorant.Josh Petrie 00:05, 1 November 2008 (UTC)

No, to claim they're lazy is perfectly valid. Let's say I was a QA person and there is something in the game that either does not function properly or is worded wrongly. I can

1. Change the function of the skill
2. Change the description of the skill
3. Leave it broken

Assuming I have an IQ higher than that of a chair's, I would pick one of the first two, but for some reason (probably one related to how much care (2 people) and effort (none) they're putting into the game) arenanet sometimes chooses number 3. I'm sorry, but I have actually NEVER seen a case where a company has something that is clearly wrong with their game and done absolutely NOTHING about it. I think most people are getting the feeling (or already have it) that arenanet has given up on GW1, and they're hiding behind GW2 as an excuse. No. If you still cared about GW1, you'd hire additional programmers, additional testers, a separate game balancer, everything to make a new game instead of abandoning your old one. All you did was hire a Gaile Gray replacement (Regina doesn't even talk to the players) and said "GW2 more important than fail-land but we have no extra people because we're lazy we don't charge online fees." Gamespy doesn't charge online fees and they fix their games. Steam doesn't charge online fees and they fix their games. Before WoW, blizzard didn't charge online fees and they fixed their games.

You've wasted all the bad excuses, do you have a good excuse why you don't care about your game anymore? ~Shard 00:58, 1 November 2008 (UTC)

Shard, I don't know what makes you think you can just dump on Kim like this, but I think it's pretty lame and clearly shows the merit of your character. Your sitting here screaming at Kim about why she doesn't care about the game anymore I would think the fact shes sitting here talking to you would prove otherwise. So you lash out at the person sitting here talking to you? Wonder why most game developers stay away from public spaces it's because of hurtful statements like that made towards people who are trying to help. Learn some tact. Izzy @-'---- 01:25, 1 November 2008 (UTC)

The flaw in your reasoning there is that QA has the means to make a fix. In the case of skills, they do not. They can certainly get in touch with the appropriate people who'd be in charge of making decisions about what gets fixed and how -- and they do. But to blame them for a bug not getting fixed is just not right.Josh Petrie 01:19, 1 November 2008 (UTC)

Sorry, that first sentence should read "the flaw in your reasoning there is that it is based on the assumption that QA has the means...".Josh Petrie 01:20, 1 November 2008 (UTC)

Just in case more people decide not to scroll up:

I am not directing any of what I say to anyone in particular, but to ArenaNet as a whole.

BTW I'm still waiting for that good excuse. ~Shard 01:37, 1 November 2008 (UTC)

Izzy, the time for tact was over quite some time ago once ANet as a whole proved they didn't actually use the wiki for paying attention to players. This is the biggest congregation of developers I've seen since the wiki's inception and it was caused specifically because of the lack of tact - what's that say about what we have to do to get your attention? -- Armond Warblade{{Bacon}} 01:39, 1 November 2008 (UTC)

We post things like this because you never read anything any player says ever. You can be as active and as defensive as you want to get, but putting players who care about the game on the arbitration committee will not get your game fixed. Actions speak, not words. DO something. We know you can fix things less than an hour after you find them, we've seen it before. Why can't you always be like that? ~Shard 01:47, 1 November 2008 (UTC)

You two are clearly in an irrational state, I have a few min, if you would like to come by my vent and talk this out feel free. thorium.fusionvoice.com 3796 Izzy @-'---- 01:53, 1 November 2008 (UTC)

Also if I didn't care, I wouldn't be here sitting on a wiki talking with some players who where clearly upset on Halloween while my kids where getting ready. Izzy @-'---- 01:57, 1 November 2008 (UTC)

In regards to the request for an ArbComm for you Shard, none of the developers had ANYTHING to do with getting you there. It was purely your actions and choices, and refusal to heed warning, policies, etc. that has put you in that position, so please do not try to put that off on anyone else. -- Wyn 02:17, 1 November 2008 (UTC)

What would you prefer for me to say? Wiki is for me to voice my opinion, and that's what I'm doing. I don't hate Kim, I don't hate izzy, hell I don't even hate you wyn. I hate how arenanet took a great game and killed it, then refused to fix it. My comments only come off as offensive if you don't fix the game for 3 years! ~Shard 02:46, 1 November 2008 (UTC)

I would have to argue that the wiki is not for you to voice your opinion. It's for documenting the game. You have been told on multiple occasions now that if you have opinions that you feel ArenaNet would benefit from hearing, email them, or post them on any of the many forums that the developers frequent, but do not post them on the wiki. Your posts, and inferences that the programmers and developers "have an IQ lower than a chair" is not in anyway benefiting this wiki, or furthering it's purpose of documenting Guild Wars, it is, plain and simple a personal attack against them, which is a violation of GWW:NPA and you are fully aware of this since it has been pointed out over and over and over. The skills bug page is for users to report to ArenaNet that something is not working the way it is stated to work, period. The skills feedback pages are for users to provide what they feel are constructive feedback to ArenaNet on the way a skill has been set up to work, period. This talk page, as well as Izzy's talk page is for personal communication with the Wiki User whose name is attached to it, period. Your communication with Kim on this page has been insulting to the point even Izzy felt compelled to call it an attack. -- Wyn 02:59, 1 November 2008 (UTC)

Last time I checked, Quality Assurance just tests the game for bugs, and if they find bugs they report back to the programmer. QA just finds errors, they don't necessarily have to fix them(that's the job of the programming team). In short, go yell at the programming team. They're in charge of debugging and fixing stuff.

There's no need to "yell" at anyone. If we, the players, can provide constructive feedback then we stand a decent chance at inspiring change for the better. Outright accusations and condemnation have a much lesser chance of achieving the desired result. ;) -- WarBlade 14:23, 4 November 2008 (UTC)

I apologize

Things got out of hand earlier, and I want to let you know that I was not trying to insult or demoralize you, but rather voicing a frustration I was feeling toward arenanet in general. If I had known you would have taken what me and armond said so personally, we would not have done so. ~Shard 04:14, 1 November 2008 (UTC)

What did you really expect when you post such things on her own wiki talk page? Comments toward ArenaNet in general belong on the ArenaNet interaction talk page, or somewhere else, not on Kim's. For someone so insistent that they use logic and facts for their arguments, you sure weren't doing so in this case. Kokuou 04:41, 1 November 2008 (UTC)

Kokou, you're not really helping by trying to continue this argument. -- Mini Me 20:49, 1 November 2008 (UTC)

Please check time stamps. I wrote my comment less than 30 minutes after Shard wrote his, when it was still in the recent changes log. The conversation in the above section ended an hour prior to that. If I had come in 12 hours or 24 hours after the conversation had ended, then I would accept the warning as fair. However, as I just explained to Dominator Matrix on my own talk page, I added my comment when the conversation was still ongoing and in the recent changes log. I did not drag up an old conversation simply to add in my own $0.02. Shard is so adamant that he uses logic and facts, that I was simply pointing out that his apology used neither, all while the conversation was still ongoing. Kokuou 21:02, 1 November 2008 (UTC)

WarBlade said exactly what I wanted to say. So let's stop this conversation here. -- Mini Me 21:46, 1 November 2008 (UTC)

Thank you for the apology. -Kim Chase 21:51, 2 November 2008 (UTC)

Item Spell Bug

I dont know how to report this,anyhow. Withing the item spells of the ritualist sometimes this items spells may do an imaginary exhaustion that last until the character dies. I thought it was one item spell that did this but it does tend to happen with all of them.

You can be carrying an item spell, your energy bar states that you have x energy, enough to do a simple 5 energy spell but when trying to cast it the system throws back a message saying you dont have enough energy when in fact the energy bar does state you have more than 5 energy.

I dont know how to exactly trigger this, maybe carrying an item spell that doesnt self-drop(an anomaly, certain Item Spells self-drop when its time expires, others do not) then get killed while carrying the item spell. When you respawn and after casting that same item spell, even having 10 energy, you wont be able to cast low casting energy spell. Again, I suspect this might be the behavior to trigger it, I dunno how exactly to trigger it. You can try out with Protective Was Kaolai, one of many that triggers it.

In an area I tend to play a lot is in Jade Quarry(It happens in all areas of GW), where dying and spawning is every 5 seconds so It has a higher chance of that behavior to happen. It's a rare behavior. If anyone has this happened, maybe you can support me on this, I suspect Im not the only with this problem.--ShadowFog 05:25, 8 December 2008 (UTC)

The bug ShadowFog describes happens with any bundle package (like flags), as well.

While we're on the topic of Item spell bugs, I'd like to point you to this section, Kim - there seems to be a lot of inconsistency in the way item spells act when their duration expires. ¬ Wizårdbõÿ777(talk) 12:31, 8 December 2008 (UTC)

Sorry I haven't had much time to post. ShadowFog, the official method to send in bug reports is by sending email to Support. You can also make a post in one of the Bug Report pages on this wiki, found in the ArenaNet Portal. Posting on my page is also fine, but understand that I am the only person monitoring my talk page, and sometimes I am busy. I will look into your report when I get some spare time. Wizardboy777, we are aware of the inconsistency with the Item spells sometimes dropping and sometimes not at the end of their durations, and are planning to fix this. -Kim Chase 21:33, 9 December 2008 (UTC)

It is possible for your Energy display to become desynched in certain situations where your max Energy/Energy regen/current Energy abruptly change. For example, when you pick up the bundle item (or use an item spell to summon one) you are losing whatever energy modifications were on your equipped weapons. Other factors are skills that affect your energy, and Death Penalty. This is a display issue we are aware of, and hope to fix. It doesn't work well in combat, but if you see this bug you can use the command /health to see what your Energy display should be. Thank you both for explaining what kinds of situation you are seeing this in. That type of information is always useful when reporting bugs. -Kim Chase 00:38, 12 December 2008 (UTC)