User talk:Raine Valen/Musings/Lyssa's Court

Hai guise. — Raine Valen 02:54, 9 August 2010 (UTC)

The 'Elite Chaotic Demagogue' made me 'wut' 3 times. No lie. Triple Elite: quite viscous. -- Oiseau | 03:20, 17 August 2010 (UTC)

I wanted OoA, but Order of Pain happened to be in Blood Magic, and I didn't want to run a hex spammer in this mob (that's later). Since OoA is a pain to manage energy with (and necro/rits don't have GoLE), I figured "Might as well throw BR on here". At that point, I decided that leaving that particular mob with any semblance of balance was a dead notion, so I threw BiP on to godmode the entire party. :> — Raine Valen 3:35, 17 Aug 2010 (UTC)

I AM noticing a prominent lack of mercy in these mob designs, so why stop now while you're so veryvery far ahead? -- Oiseau | 03:40, 17 August 2010 (UTC)

I feel that I'd be neglecting my duty as a designer if I were to coddle my players. — Raine Valen 3:54, 17 Aug 2010 (UTC)

I wish that had remained the standard rather than pattern degrading. I've waited in vain for the 3 (?) remaining Divine Realms to open to players, though I suppose they gave us DoA... eh -- Oiseau | 04:32, 17 August 2010 (UTC)

Wouldn't it be easier to just make players fight the base defender than go to all this trouble? It'd be faster, too. –Jette 06:36, 18 August 2010 (UTC)

All of my mobs are beatable with common-sense strategies; Base Defense would take a pretty unique strategy to beat. Besides, that wouldn't let me make builds with 7 pbaoe eles and 8 copies of kinetic armor. — Raine Valen 15:29, 18 Aug 2010 (UTC)

I guess it'd be no more frustrating overall than the mindblade swarms. I killed a base defender once. It was kind of tough but we managed to do it eventually: what we did was we sent some minions in first which it took a while to kill and during the 1s downtime I used shadow step to teleport up to him, then used blackout. After that it was pretty easy to blow him up. Then we spawn-camped the base. :D This was before he was invulnerable, mind, after they figured out you could do this they made him untargetable. He resurrects after a few seconds, but there's enough room inside the spawn area to huddle around unmolested. –Jette 16:01, 18 August 2010 (UTC)

Khesze, Chaos Lord

Lore plz? Fanks. Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ аІiсә ѕνәи Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ 07:10, 2 September 2010 (UTC)

With UW, you're dealing with Dhuum, who was the predecessor to Grenth, but who has re-emerged.

With this Court, you're kind of in the opposite scenario: Khesze's taking over (actually, has already taken over), and your goal is to reinstall Lyssa to the throne. Players enter the domain on Khesze's coronation night, and things go from there (I'll detail the rest of the quest line eventually). Basically, you're stopping this guy from pulling a Grenth on Lyssa. — Raine Valen 7:29, 2 Sep 2010 (UTC)

Alright, but I mean... Who is Khesze? Is there any back story or is he a random entity that just decided to fuck with Lyssa? Also how did he manage to suddenly take over and prepare his coronation without hordes of heroes finding out and coming to help Lyssa? Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ аІiсә ѕνәи Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ 08:28, 2 September 2010 (UTC)

He's Korean, and therefore sneaky. -- Tha Reckoning 12:15, 2 September 2010 (UTC)

Khezse was formerly a high-standing member of Lyssa's Court. As the story often goes, he became power-hungry and set his eye on the throne. With this in mind, he'd been preparing for this takeover for some time by converting other members of the Court to his side by promising them things that they did not have before (often power) or outright threatening them. When the takeover happened, it was swiftly executed because the majority of the members had already sided with Khezse, mostly out of fear of being caught on the losing side when all was said and done.

The coup itself happens a very short time before players arrive on the scene to assist Lyssa (a day or two). — Raine Valen 15:41, 2 Sep 2010 (UTC)

Your Sway

Gives me a bigger headaches than I thought it would. :x -- Oiseau | 18:34, 2 September 2010 (UTC)

And then you're greeted by a sinboss. It's just a wealth of imbalance. :> — Raine Valen 18:55, 2 Sep 2010 (UTC)

Looking at the backline though, it does not seem an insurmountable fight by any length. Just a reasonably difficult engagement. -- Oiseau | 19:00, 2 September 2010 (UTC)

The hard part would be not wiping to the rangers for long enough to drop their rits. Granted, level 20 rangers with daggers don't do massive damage, but exhausting assault spam adds up really fast. Especially under QZ. And wiping rits with imbagons and spirit spammers isn't really a cakewalk, either. — Raine Valen 19:14, 2 Sep 2010 (UTC)

Now that I look at it again, I'm realizing a good (old fashioned) Melandru Dervish would be a wonderful addition to the frontline for the first, two groups. Granted Ele ball might give it some trouble, but it would even be able to widely circumnavigate the traps, in the Sway mob, and go spirit hunting so that the remainder of the team went down. Melandru isn't always the best choice, but I think I'd enjoy playing Her in Lyssa's realm. -- Oiseau | 23:31, 2 September 2010 (UTC)

And against the Assassin Boss. -- Oiseau | 23:34, 2 September 2010 (UTC)

A couple of issues:

Minions

The group designed specifically to destroy minions (smiteway) doesn't appear until a good way through the realm. Would a team running minions be plausible, with that taken into consideration?

• I don't really mind if minion-wall-way isn't a viable option; I'd rather it not be.

Hexes

Many (though not all) groups are relatively low on anti-hex skills. Again, the smiteway specifically counters hexes, but would a hex-based team be able to stop that one mob and breeze through everything else?

• Both bosses are very resistant to hexing; is that enough of a deterrent?

Farming

Needless to say, the drops here would have to be something epic. Is there a farming build that would handle the first few mobs well?

• The very first mob features big non-spell enchantment removal, which should eliminate most traditional farming methods. However, this mob can be skipped.
• The second mob also features big non-spell enchantment removal and non-spell interrupts, which would also pew pew on traditional farming.
• Am I overlooking anything?

Kazenji and Khezse

Kazenji is designed to be able to handle most anti-physical measures because watching him die to Empathy and SV would suck. However, does this natural resistance to traditional melee hate make him too strong?

• I'm yet to come up with a solid strategy for beating him, though I haven't put much thought into it yet.

Khezsi, similarly, is designed to be able to deal with more/less anything with very general shutdown.

• I've thought of a few ways to beat him with balanced team builds; can you think of any?

All-In-All

Could you clear this area with an 8-man party? What tactics would you use? What would be hard to beat? What would be easy?

Lemme know, guise! — Raine Valen 19:35, 2 Sep 2010 (UTC)

Maybe DBS wars would roll this, but I don't know. InfestedHydralisk 22:32, 2 September 2010 (UTC)

I doubt it, with union, shelter, and displacement spam. And they'd prolly be creamed nicely by the bosses, derv smite, and ele ball. There are a lot of reasons not to ball up, and DBSway kind of revolves around clusterfucks. — Raine Valen 22:37, 2 Sep 2010 (UTC)

Complete first quest. Drop cons on ground. Take second quest. Pop cons. Roll over area with ER, spirits, etc. 98.248.90.248 01:01, 3 September 2010 (UTC)

The sway would destroy builds relying on ER and the dervsmite would destroy builds relying on spirits.

The drop cons -> pick up cons would be pretty zzz, though; I'll fix that. — Raine Valen 1:07, 3 Sep 2010 (UTC)

Mmm, nah, spiritway would roll over 2 copies of banishing strike. Its really not as effective as you might think it would be if you position properly. ER would kinda get destroyed at sway, but there's nothing to stop a communing spirit spammer/imbagon. Also, the bosses could be killed really easily through balling up with spirits and hitting PI. Hardest wave would probably be ele ball, but then again mirror of disenchantment+panic would probably make it loleasy. 98.248.90.248 01:17, 3 September 2010 (UTC)

The bosses both have epic hex removal just for that reason. Khezse, additionally, has Cry of Ownage, and should tear through builds reliant on casters for damage to shreds pretty nicely.

And I really don't see spirits being effective against a pair of dervishes that deal damage best described as "gratuitous"; between Ancestor's Rage, Holy Wrath, Banishing Strike, Splinter Weapon, and orders, the dervishes should blow things up pretty nicely. Especially minions and spirits. On top of that, they've got more-than-capable heals and prots. tl;dr, derv smite should do what it's always done: explode other gimmicks.

Panic is a very effective counter to everything, including players. I haven't included a hexway or balanced build yet, but they will likely both feature it (as does Khezse).

Ideally, every gimmick build should face a counter to their particular gimmick. So far, there are numerous counters to: traditional enchantment tanks (Discord group will rape them) and stance tanks (caster groups will rape them); to all-caster teams (they shouldn't make it past the ele ball, let alone sway, and the boss would soundly thrash them); to minion walls (dervsmite will explode them gloriously) and, to a lesser extent, spirit walls (copious amounts of AoE in various forms); DBS and/or Ursan clusterfucks (again, copious amounts of AoE promote non-clusterfucking); to Manly Spike (SF tanking won't work so well, and there is hex removal in most groups).

Builds that are not specifically countered include Hexway (though Dervsmite does a good job against this), Sway/Iway-esque builds, true spikes (with some exceptions), and, of course, Balanced. I will deal with these with True Smiteway or Juggernaut Way, Hexway, prots (SY! does well), and Elite Balanced, respectively. Or perhaps with a third boss. We shall see. — Raine Valen 3:13, 3 Sep 2010 (UTC)

paragons

lololololol

seriously, though, why not just make it so consumables cannot be activated in this area? -- Armond Warblade{{Bacon}} 07:35, 3 September 2010 (UTC)

Because FUCK the players. — Raine Valen 6:03, 21 Nov 2010 (UTC)

You can always add envoirment effects. InfestedHydralisk 14:55, 21 November 2010 (UTC)

You need to take a look at some of the wow bosses and their abilities. Those bosses are doable but difficult; yours are stupidly impossible because of retarded mechanics. Call of darkness or whatever is "remove target player from the game for 30 seconds", which is enough to cause a wipe. That's bad enough, but add in the fact that it's way too spamable and there's nothing you can do to prevent it and you have a mechanic that makes the mesmer changes look well thought out. If you made it so the players could do something to prevent him from casting (for example, say he only casts it once every 60 seconds [and reduce the duration to 15s or so] and the players can run a bundle to him to stun him while he's casting) it would be much more fun. -- Armond Warblade{{Bacon}} 17:34, 21 November 2010 (UTC)

It's interruptible and removable. It also ends if the target's energy reaches 0 (like 3 of his skills do that) (at which point they blow up). It's really more of a targeted damage buff, like The Master's Mark, than a shutdown skill - it's fodder for his other skills. — Raine Valen 23:46, 21 Nov 2010 (UTC)

The existence of counters doesn't make something balanced. Also, I meant Embrace the Darkness, to which the best apparent counter is suicide. -- Armond Warblade{{Bacon}} 05:54, 22 November 2010 (UTC)

Oh, THAT skill! Yeah, it has no counters except for interruption (removing it kills target ally, period, no resses). I do think that it lasts way too long, though. And it might be better if, instead of dealing damage to the party, it healed him (since he kind of needs it). Still, Menzies would be relatively easy, with that design, because he's largely vulnerable to traditional melee counters. — Raine Valen 22:12, 22 Nov 2010 (UTC)

^ Nuke him with mass hexes. →[ »Halogod (talk)« ]← 22:18, 22 November 2010 (UTC)

Does Hex Breaker count as an interrupt? Just curious. –Jette 22:29, 22 November 2010 (UTC)

I forgot that that skill existed. — Raine Valen 22:30, 22 Nov 2010 (UTC)

Nope. InfestedHydralisk 22:57, 22 November 2010 (UTC)