User talk:Shard/League of Legends Sucks

LoL

What do you think of the other DotA clones? I tried LoL during beta, but that's it, and I was pro-newb. Other than that, I've played Demigod a while back, and it seemed moderately balanced, depending on what you thought of the artifacts. --JonTheMon 12:43, 4 May 2011 (UTC)

I'm glad to see an honest and accessible review of it finally (L-o-L). I've got friends who play it who are trying to get me to play it too and knowing it has mechanics issues really helps that decision. Mechanics are much bigger deal to me too than simple Stat imbalances. --ilr 20:57, 4 May 2011 (UTC)

If you have friends to play with, it's not that bad (well, it still is, but having friends makes it a little more enjoyable). I've played most of the SC2 dota clones including SotIS and StarBattle, I've played Lands of Chaos, and probably some others I don't remember. StarBattle is the most balanced one I've played, but since it's a completely open battlefield, doesn't involve much mapwide positioning. SotIS isn't too bad, but it has these issues.

I can't really recommend any DotA to play because I don't particularly like them in general and since most of them try to replicate the original (which also has these broken mechanics) they all usually suck.

If you decide to pick up LoL, give me your SN and maybe my group can get you in sometime. ~Shard 03:26, 5 May 2011 (UTC)

LOCO was fun, I liked how they blended an mmo-style persistent economy with DoTA. elix Omni 03:27, 5 May 2011 (UTC)

Did you think 1 2 3 4 were imbalanced? – Emmett 23:58, 5 May 2011 (UTC)

I've always wanted to try DotA since so many people say it's the shit. Is there a way to get into it or anything? Keep in mind I'm a chronic jerk with no scruples, so it can't be one of those social things like clans or forums or something. –Jette 01:27, 6 May 2011 (UTC)

[1] <- Signup link for LoL. 161.184.140.160 01:50, 6 May 2011 (UTC)

We just spent a rant and a section discussing why league of legends is crap and normal DotA is better. Pay attention. –Jette 11:57, 6 May 2011 (UTC)

Not entirely sure what you mean by "invincibility", those champions you mentioned have been brought down to a ignorable level. The argument for invisibility is flawed, this is like saying Sona is an unfair champion because she comes with so many free auras. Not that invisibility isn't flawed, the real issue is that it is extremely binary a mechanic - buy oracles and invisibility champions are useless, don't buy them and they wreck teams. Pika Fan 21:22, 7 May 2011 (UTC)

Pika, what's your ign? 161.184.140.160 22:09, 7 May 2011 (UTC)

I'll laugh pretty hard if this is you. 161.184.140.160 22:12, 7 May 2011 (UTC)

I am currently banned on NA servers(for months now), all SEA IPs are. P.S. My ign is PosPosPos. Pika Fan 06:48, 8 May 2011 (UTC)

I had a friend who was playing out of Singapore on the NA servers - what's a bypass? 161.184.140.160 19:01, 8 May 2011 (UTC)

Do I want to play with 200-300 ping on an unstable server or 30 ping on a comparatively stable one? Hmm let's see...this is totally hard to decide. Either way, my account is perma banned as of this point and it is unlikely to change. Pika Fan 20:46, 8 May 2011 (UTC)

Don't pretend to be heartless, I don't buy that. Also, it didn't seem that unstable to me, and honestly I get an average of ~200 ping in North America at times, but I suppose you'd know better than I. 161.184.140.160 21:39, 8 May 2011 (UTC)

When I last played on the NA servers, there were unforeseen downtimes every week or so. To be honest, I wouldn't mind staying on the NA servers, there were friends I left behind whom I missed terribly. The playerbase is less frustrating than that of LoLSEA as well. Anyway, as you have noticed my Elo sucked on NA servers, some credit goes to the fact I only play support champions. Pika Fan 07:49, 9 May 2011 (UTC)

No, Pika, that's not how invisibility works. Characters with stealth get it for free. They get in inherent advantage for free. The only way to come even (not counter, just come even) with them is to gimp your early game. These characters aren't even weak without stealth - they're as good as most other champions, so you're basically setting yourself back 400g every time you die (oracle's goes away when you die) just to make their enemy champions play like regular champions.

The connectino problems in LoL are also abysmal. They've already given me some free RP (currency for the store) because of the shitty connection quality I had during some games. If they fuck up a little more, I'll be able to buy a skin for one of my champs! ~Shard 22:27, 9 May 2011 (UTC)

Eve without stealth is Udyr without his shield and speedboost. She is practically useless without the element of surprise. ::Twitch's defensive growth means that without stealth he drops faster than a second of focus fire. His early game is shit because every ranged carry can either outrange him or out damage him with pokes and various other escapes and utility.

Only Shaco and Akali's viability does not drop to 0 when you can see them with 100% uptime, but that's because they aren't centered on invisibility and have amazing gank/burst potential respectively.

Invisibility comes free, but you also have to consider the fact that most stealth champions rely on stealth to get anything done at all. Once you buy oracles, they fall below the standard of other champions by a huge margin. Even better if you get them on a support champion, since they don't need a single piece of gold to maintain 100% efficiency to begin with.

On the connections point, I currently play on Garena servers and they only have foreseen downtimes so far. Quite impressed with the uptime as of this point. Pika Fan 07:07, 10 May 2011 (UTC)

What I gathered from my time beta testing Heroes of Newerth (lols) was that the general idea of lower level play was to buildwars the other team's heroes, does it work the same way if you're good at games like that? -- Tha Reckoning 10:57, 10 May 2011 (UTC)

Some, but really, that's pretty much true for all games, to a point. High level HoN play, I'd say, is pretty good as far as "skillful pvp" goes. NuVII 19:42, 10 May 2011 (UTC)

Really, though, did you think the heroes I listed from DotA(/HoN) were imbalanced? – Emmett 18:47, 10 May 2011 (UTC)

Oh, on a tangent here, but apparently Riot outdone themselves with a champion that has stealth, range, hard cc, flash on a 2 second timer as well as capable of doing true damage as a % of the target's health. It's just amazing really. Pika Fan 17:22, 11 May 2011 (UTC)

LoL balance

This is more of a point about DoTA-esque balance in general, buuut...

When you talk about blinks and shadowsteps, two heroes in particular pop into mind: Magina the Antimage (magebane in HoN) and Akasha (Hag in HoN). These two heroes both have very reliable, built-in blinks. There are many others (puck comes to mind), but I'm going to use these for now. Also, both these heroes are buffed when ported to HoN, so I'm going to use HoN as my comparison point.

Magina is considered to be shitty tier carry for HoN, even though his blink is ungodly powerful (gives you +10 roughly magic armor upon usage for about 10s) and has a retarded short CD (6s at max level). Even then, most other agi carries see more play because in a game like DoTA, blinking heroes aren't that gamebreaking.

Another proof for this claim is kelen's dagger. For only 2k gold, you can purchase your very own blink skill. This turns some heroes (tiny comes to mind) into oneshotters of nearly every agi and INT hero in the game. Still, Tiny (pebbles in HoN) is considered a sub par pick also, because wards > him and when lategame comes around you can largely ignore his hard ass.

Now, temporary bans: Pudge, lucifer, axe, all of these heroes have long ass stuns or silences. Luci didn't get ported in to HoN (cause, you know, 20s worth of Doom is unfun) but axe and pudge and god knows who else is in the game. There is even one hero (a rough port of barathrum) who can stunlock a single hero for about 9 seconds. He is considered shittier tier, because locking someone down for that long isn't very impressive. Other heroes can do so much more, the dedicated single target lockers/nukes don't see that much competitive action. I dunno about LoL, but I'm sure it's a lesser form of Pvp :D

To be continued. NuVII 09:46, 23 May 2011 (UTC)

In LoL, you and the other team are each allowed to ban 2 champions. The three that ALWAYS get banned are Amumu, Rammus, and Shen. Shen and rammus both have taunts (which are like stuns in that you lose control of your character, but you move towards them), and Amumu is the one I mentioned with a half-screen AOE stun. They are banned in every match because even the dumbest LoL players know that removing people from the game is broken as shit. The fourth that people usually ban changes a lot, aside from some strange choices team leaders sometimes make, most people ban Sion (who has a stun and a shield that does AoE damage), Evelyn (stealth), or Nocturne (teleport across the map for big damage). Champions without the things on this page never get banned, because nobody plays them. That kind of raises some flags huh? In an ideally balanced game, players pick stuff based on their playstyle, and there are some really interesting champs in LoL that never ever see play, just because they aren't broken enough to win. ~Shard 04:00, 24 May 2011 (UTC)

To address those points, most of the time, bans of teams in lower levels of play will differ significantly with those of a higher level. Going back to HoN, for example, in an average game, you'll rarely ban Polywog priest or Jereziah, both of which are almost always (maybe not jere anymore after his nerf) autobanned in competitive play. There are many heroes like this, Vindicator, Polywog, Jere, Accursed (used to be, before nerfs), Tempest, all of these see regular bans or play by top players. Vindicator is a special mention, he is never banned and never played, but a tournament ready team with vindi almost always wins. This is because most players agree that playing Vindi screws too heavily with the game's fast paced dynamic, and most teams (even good ones) get their team strat screwed and play a game they aren't ready for. Jereziah and Polywog do similar things, Jere is a scaling supporter (and a God tier pick) and poly can stop or start pushes with one ultimate. Again, these heroes aren't considered OP because they break the game, but they do, in a sense.

On the opposite end of the spectrum, there are some heroes that break the game but aren't considered OP. The Dark lady is an agi carry hero with a melee silence buff (all her attacks silence and do ungodly damage for a period) a single target slow, and a charge/atk speed buff. Her ult? removes all allied vision from all heroes in a massive radius and lowers their natural vision to the equivalent of blind. She is considered a meh tier (why, yes, I am pulling tier names out of my arse). Keeper of the Forest can eye trees and potentially give clear vision around the map, but no one gets that skill ever, since you can chop down trees so easily. Scout can use his electric eye to ward runes, silence teams for up to 6 seconds, and has a very cheap scaling invis, but he is considered shittier than the shittier tier.

On lower levels of play, some very hard carries are banned for no reason other than how fast they get out of control for people who aren't very good at seizing a 4v5 play. Warbeast, a port of lychantrope, is almost always banned in average games, but he is considered a suppar pick for a high end game. Same goes for Scout (has invis, aoe silence, crit and disarm, AND a scaling nuke), blood hunter, and so on and so forth.

Anyway, What I'm going for is that what people may or may not ban may or may not have to do with how broken they are, but more to do with how they influence the game. Subtle difference. NuVII 18:49, 25 May 2011 (UTC)

I understand that, but that's not really relevant to my post. I said 100% of ranked matches end up with those champions being banned, because picking them nearly causes an autowin for your team. Also, LoL's matchmaking system for solo ranked is that it makes 5-man teams consisting of a high ranked player, a low ranked player, and three in the middle. The highest ranked player on a team picks the bans, so there isn't really any "low ranked" metagame for picking bans. ~Shard 20:57, 25 May 2011 (UTC)

In terms of bans, I think you're forgetting about the "save" champion trading system. In some higher ELO premade and even solo que matches, people utilize that system to secure frequently picked (ie broken) champions before the other team can. That fact in itself adds a whole new degree of complexity to the banning phase. Of course, that favors the blue team, due to the fact that they get the very first Champion pick, so the strategy becomes a little more risky if you attempt it as purple. At any rate, it's not completely unheard of to see a Shen, Amumu, or Rammus in a ranked game.

Oh, and the 4th ban generally reflects the current free to play metagame, or newest (broken) champion release. Ryuu  *bite* 21:39, 25 May 2011 (UTC)

bah, maybe HoN has superior balance. Graphics, too. You should play that :D NuVII 17:11, 26 May 2011 (UTC)

Superior balance, inferior price model. DotA is the same no matter where you go. ~Shard 19:26, 29 May 2011 (UTC)