Feedback talk:Gaile Gray/Archive Support Issues/Apr - Jun 2010

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Jade Quarry Bot Questions

Some Questions regarding bots in The Jade Quarry

Hi, to whomever is reading or in charge of, I just have some simple questions about bots in JQ mission. I have played JQ as fun pvp match, and also as to farm some factions. However it comes to my attention that there are some repeated offenders who continue to do the same thing everyday such as botting and/or leeching. I DO report them as I see them in my party, but they do not seem to get effected by /report whatsoever besides getting dishonor hex for limited amount of time. So well, my question is that Anet even really do anything about a bot, other than keep issuing warning about breaching eula.

Just to give an example ... most characters from [OkoS] guild is in Kurzick side JQ EVERYDAY doing nothing, but leech by either using macro or by real player to enter, repeatedly, the mission as soon as it's dishonor hex has expired. And it is not fair to other players who actually play the game, as these leechers are getting BOTH balthazar and kurzick factions 24/7 without doing anything. — The preceding unsigned comment was added by 99.66.245.5 (talk) at 06:31, 01 April 2010 (UTC).

*cough, radicus flame cough cough*--Master Briar 06:36, 1 April 2010 (UTC)

radicus flame? ... well besides spelling, I would suggest that you should go see it on your own, I am not falsely reporting anyone. That was just one of many bots/leechers. I don't have the intention to name them all nor it is my job to be checking. But it is very frustrating to see repeated offenders after reporting the same character for many times. — The preceding unsigned comment was added by 99.66.245.5 (talk) at 10:04, 01 April 2010 (UTC).

Support recently received a detailed report about leechers and botters that has been instrumental in helping the devs investigate those two (sometimes inter-related) issues. I would suggest that you go ahead and gather character names of those who are in obvious breach of the UA (through the use of bots) and you submit a ticket to Support or you go ahead and use "email this user" here on the wiki and send it to me. Guild names are not as helpful; character names are very helpful. I cannot promise that you'll see immediate results -- such as all those you report disappearing in a couple of hours -- but things change over time and those you report may be addressed in the future. -- Gaile 18:53, 1 April 2010 (UTC)

Well thanks for pointing me in the direction to report directly. I realize that guild name doesn't help in anyway, I just used guild name above as an example. I was not referring that everyone in that guild is running a bot, or in anyway to flame the guild. I apologize if my comment seem to be flaming, but that was not my intention. I just wanted to know if there is more effective way to report a bot, and you answered my question. Thanks gaile. — The preceding unsigned comment was added by 99.61.224.38 (talk) at 08:22, 02 April 2010 (UTC).

German Support Ticket: Help Needed

Can u help me with german support ticket issue?

Hi Gaile! I got a problem with a purchase via the NCSoft Store. Support Ticket is sent and i got a reaction from team, but i feel a bit ignored/dodged because they make a big deal out of the problem and resist to solve it. Now the thing is that i wrote to the German Support so the tickets are in German. Can u take a look at them or whom should i ask for that? (cause the tickets are in german language and i dunno if u can look at german tickets). I already wrote at Martin K.s User page but i dont know if such questions are his business. Regards NewAtWiki 21:12, 1 April 2010 (UTC)

Forgot to tell u the ticket# 100401-001588. Looking forward to a reaction from you if u have the time, cause i dont want to start the game until the problem is solved so you guys dont get any complications with me already using the erronous bought stuff. Which is very sad cause i planned to start two new chars for easter weekend. NewAtWiki 00:40, 2 April 2010 (UTC)

Hi again (Sorry to post in your archive but wanted to let you know that u no longer need to concer about this). My request was rejected from support, i got an mail which informed me that by any means i will not receive the product i wanted to buy. Instead, the Upgrade i bought erroneously which does not have any effects on the account because all it would unlock had already been unlocked before(.....), will remain on the account and NcSoft is happy to receive 8.99€ from me for nothing (lol). The sarcastic part has not been in the email, but i just felt that i have to add it. Sorry for late answer but i forgot that i was asking you for help too :-D , but i guess there s nothing you can do now. NewAtWiki 18:46, 28 April 2010 (UTC)

Wounding Strike?

Hey Gaile,

The dervish skill wounding strike says in the description that it inflicts bleeding AND cripple if ur enchanted. Now i normally hav 3 enchants on and that enchanted but it does NOT inflisct cripple and i was wondering why? Happy Easter User:Austin1

It inflicts bleeding and deep wound when enchanted, not bleeding and cripple... Re-read the description. King Neoterikos 03:52, 3 April 2010 (UTC)

FYI Wounding Strike - Elite Scythe Attack. If this attack hits, target foe suffers from Bleeding for 5...17...20 seconds. If you are under the effects of an enchantment, target foe also suffers from a Deep Wound for 5...17...20 seconds. --*Yasmin Parvaneh* 07:41, 3 April 2010 (UTC)

Trading Problem

Hey Gaile,

I hav been trading zkeys today and i traded 20 for 100k, then when i tried to trade 8 for 40k it always cancelled. I know that ANET did that to stop people switching stuff for free but the cash was there in the box so it still cancelled. Is there a way around this or what? User:Austin1

You can only hold 100k at a time, so it auto-canceled to prevent the player from going over that limit. You (or he, whoever was selling) would have needed to deposit at least 40k in the Xunlai Chest to continue the trade. elix Omni 06:11, 5 April 2010 (UTC)

There is no such thing that prevents players from switching stuff for free. They only show a warning when someone has changed his offer. InfestedHydralisk 03:17, 6 April 2010 (UTC)

Character names

I've sent 2 emails to support asking for a characters name, still no reply after 3 days. I was really looking forward to playing, if I don't get a reply soon I'm going to give up and not play. Help please? --The preceding unsigned comment was added by 90.210.156.193 (talk).

Did you check the FAQ? There are several ways in which you can find a character name if you can't remember it yourself, prior to contacting support. If you do need Gaile to check on a ticket, you need to tell her what the ticket number is (from the automated email you received), she can do nothing without it. Keep in mind that if you opened this ticket prior to the weekend, there was probably only a skeleton staff because of the weekend. -- FreedomBound 12:13, 7 April 2010 (UTC)

Codex Leeching

One of our outstanding anonymous contributors decided to give us an excellent way of quickly rising in the Codex title track. Just wanted to bring it to the attention of the support team, in case you might be interested. -- FreedomBound 12:17, 8 April 2010 (UTC)

Is this where Gaile reminds us that abusing formats may result in bans, but only 1 or 2 people ever end up getting banned for it, if that? (Not that I'm trying to criticize Support. It's not like they don't have more pressing issues to deal with - namely bots and hacked accounts.) ··· Danny Pew Pew 18:42, 9 April 2010 (UTC)

If it gets out of hand, they might just XTH it, but I doubt they'd take the time and effort to "take care of" the culprits. Rose Of Kali 19:41, 9 April 2010 (UTC)

Codex leeching is OK compared to GWCA botting. THAT is a pressing issue..., and currently nothing gets done about it (at least I haven't seen anything except model ID changes). You can farm, chestrun, vanquish, ... with it. Soon it'll farm DoA for you with 8 accounts, just wait and see :) 83.101.79.30 07:52, 10 April 2010 (UTC)

I'd bet good money that it's already farming the UW. Keep in mind that people generally try to keep their exploits under wraps as long as possible. ··· Danny Pew Pew

Please be assured that we do our best to stay aware of cheats, leeching patterns, and bot programs. Players kindly keep us updated on many such exploits and cheats and we do our own research as well. If you've been around for a while, you'll know and can see -- on Link #1, Link #2, Link #3, Link #4, Link #5, and many more -- significant bannage can happen in the blink of an eye. Those who engage in breaches of the UA should be aware they're jeopardizing their accounts. Beyond that, I'd prefer not to comment at the present time. -- Gaile 02:34, 28 April 2010 (UTC)

Direct Song Works Again :)

As a followup to a discussion from last year (see: Feedback_talk:Gaile_Gray/Archive_Support_Issues/Nov_-_Dec_2009#In_game_issues_with_DirectSong), I wanted to let you know that DirectSong just issued a new DLL, new registry utility and new installation guide for GW music paks. So now DS music play again in GW on all 32bit and 64bit systems with the DS icon working again in the Sound options panel. All is fine and Jeremy Soule music is still as beautiful as it was. ^^ Jaxom 13:41, 9 April 2010 (UTC)

Yes, I've been working with Julian Soule on getting those corrections in place. We're delighted there's been progress on the matter. We have a couple of questions about how they are presented -- for instance, if someone doesn't read the readme.doc he may be confused by the process -- so I'm following up with DirectSong to see if we can get a few amendments. Did you have any questions or problems with the install? Thanks. -- Gaile 16:58, 9 April 2010 (UTC)

For me, no, as I am pretty used to DS since the day I've purchased Prophecies back in 2005 (as it was just when Sorrow's Furnace came out and the GW web site was advertising the free music pak at that time).

For newcomers (if there are still potential new customers at this point), maybe. People not reading the readme may not know they can have the music ingame and that they must execute RegisterDirectSongDirectory.exe though. And of course the readme is only available in English (not an issue for me but you may want to have it translated in most languages GW supports). Even though the process is pretty straightforward it is still the usual RTFM (sorry) issue we're all experiencing from time to time.

When I have more free time, I may end translating the readme in French and post it on the French Wikia and JOL fansite for people to see it (though the usual licensing issue may come in the way for Wikia).

Additionnaly we're missing the old DS newsletter or some sort of notification of the update. I myself was not aware of the update until I've seen that User:KJZ had updated Talk:DirectSong#DirectSong_working_again here on the wiki.

As for the DS site:

• The regular paks are accessible for downloading through the account's purchase list (I already send them suggestion for presentation 1 year ago through their support because the way it is currently presented is a bit of anti-ergonomic).
• The collector paks are accessible for downloading through http://www.directsong.com/wma. Both remain in 128KBs as opposed to 320KBps for all the regular paks that were re-released over the course of the year.
• The Sorrow's Furnace mini-pak is currently nowhere to be found (it is listed in the account's purchase list but there is no download button and it s not in http://www.directsong.com/wma).

Lately some people have expressed that they may want to buy additional packs (not all GW musics are available in the current DS offers or some "new" ones such as the Halloween or Wintersday music from Lion's Arch and Kamadan) though I do not know if this would be a real business opportunity in there. Jaxom 00:43, 10 April 2010 (UTC)

Yeah. I hate that flash-based download list. The special packs can't be downloaded through it. You can still access the old html/ASP dowload page(http://www.directsong.com/MyLicenses.asp), although I don't know if it will download the new versions. I'm still trying to figure how to get the new dll to work, since there is no info in the page. The wma page has files from may 2009. For now I'm downloading the .zips again from the Flash page. I hope I get them that way. I'd love to have the songs working in mp3 instead of wma in the game, so I don't need both to listen in the PC and in my own portable players. MithTalk 13:09, 10 April 2010 (UTC)

Regarding the old system, the database will NOT let you purchase new music. The link above is to a disabled part of the system that DirectSong is trying to phase out. Any purchases now made here will NOT be recorded under the Licenses page.

There is a new RegisterDirectSongDirectory.exe and an installation guide as well as a copy of the most recent DLL in the latest ZIP files. Jaxom 20:12, 10 April 2010 (UTC)

Just re-downloaded the regular paks (what an annoying process to do...), each contains:

• all tracks in MP3
• JPG image for printable CD case art
• Read Me First.rtf
• another ZIP file.

The readme indicates that the second ZIP file contains what's needed for ingame music. The archive has the same kind of content than the 2 collector's edition paks:

• correct folder structure
• all tracks in WMA AND in proper folder
• ds_GuildWars.dll
• GuildWars.ds
• RegisterDirectSongDirectory.exe
• DirectoryStructure.JPG (image that shows how the directory structure should look like when all the packs are installed)
• Guild Wars DirectSong Music Read Me First.rtf

So yeah unless people do not bother reading the readme file or cannot read English, there is no real reason they should not get their music working ingame.

The only thing missing is access to a new re-release of Sorrow's Furnace mini-pak + higher bitrate rate for extra packs (Sorrow's Furnace + Factions collector + Nightfall collector). Jaxom 23:41, 16 April 2010 (UTC)

They don't tell you that if you modify the GuildWars.ds, you can use the mp3 files instead the wma ones, either. MithTalk 04:01, 17 April 2010 (UTC)

(Reset indent) This thread is very useful and helpful to others, as well. Thank you for taking the time to post the details! -- Gaile 01:55, 28 April 2010 (UTC)

Apparently there are still some more issues, see User talk:Stephane Lo Presti/Journal/April-December 2010#DirectSong (in French). Jaxom 05:51, 30 April 2010 (UTC)

Perhaps you could tell me what the issue seems to be, Jaxom, since as I recall you speak French? I can also check with Stephane. We do want to help, to the best of our ability, even while ultimately the issues must be resolved by the DirectSong team. -- Gaile 04:06, 4 May 2010 (UTC)

Here is the translation:

Hi Stephane. Many players such as myself are loving Jeremy Soule's music but cannot enjoy the soundtrack fully. Let me explain, when one purchases the music directly at DirectSong's (there: http://www.directsong.com/Catalog.asp), the only place where they can buy them, things seems to work OK (except for the free Sorrow's Furnace pak where there is a bug). Once the music has been purchased and downloaded, I am following the readme's instructions :

Copy the contents of this zip to your DirectSong folder.

Run the guildwars.bat file.

Change to the ----> Guild Wars Special Edition Soundtrack; sub-directory

Open one of the songs in Windows Media Player to obtain a license.

Everything goes OK except for the last step where I want to get a license to get the music working, this leads to a web page with errror 500, the site is dead. This means that in the end many people bought some music that they cannot use.

Gaile Gray and Emily Diehl are trying to help but I cannot understand their level of English, same for other Wiki members : http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/User_talk:Gaile_Gray#Direct_Song_works_again_:.29

If you could do something or better setup a FAQ or something to give information to French players, this would be a big help ; but of course only if you have the time to do such thing.

Thanks --Anvar Le Barbare 08:16, 27 April 2010 (UTC)

Second message:

The problem is that my account does not list my paks on the new Flash site. I had typed my code from the Guild Wars Prophecies Special Edition at the following URL : http://www.directsong.com/gws_graphic.htm, but this is on the older site. Seems paks available for download are not on the new Flash site. Thanks for your help. --Anvar Le Barbare 12:15, 30 April 2010 (UTC)

From what I understand:

1. He used the old DirectSong website to purchase the music (do not know if it was before or after the site change at DirectSong's or if it's a recent purchase. It seems he ended there because of the free music code paper from the GW Special Edition box which leads to a deprecated site).
2. The paks he gets through this site or the purchase email are the old ones (if it's a recent purchase, seems the indicate the site is still working somehow)
3. Upon activation theses paks possibly lead to a wrong activation page (already told him to go though the regular site, to redownload the paks through his Past Orders list and to try to reactivate but he says his paks are not listed in his account).

Jaxom 10:29, 4 May 2010 (UTC)

Also remember that the support at DirectSong's has been AFK for quite a while now with many people reporting that they never got any answer from support for over a year. Jaxom 10:31, 4 May 2010 (UTC)

@Jaxom -- Thank you for your kind help in translating that page. It says pretty much what I feared it would say as the Austin-based North American Support Team is hearing much the same -- there is a dead link in the instructions and therefore DS customers cannot acquire the music. I have had a call in to DirectSong for some time. I have now written an email and I've included my manager in the email so that he can assist me in getting a resolution. I will let Stephane know that I'm on this case. But he's been traveling and may not be able to respond right away. So if you have an opportunity and can do so, you are certainly welcome to let the French player who wrote on the wiki know that I am pursuing this on his behalf. (Merci beaucoup !) -- Gaile 19:09, 7 May 2010 (UTC)

Ok, will translate this message in his discussion page right now. Jaxom 05:44, 8 May 2010 (UTC)

There were issues with one of the DirectSong pages, but I have been told that these are corrected now and the system should be working just fine now. Thanks to everyone for their patience on this matter. -- Gaile 06:55, 26 May 2010 (UTC)

Thx Gaile, I will translate that to Stephane's and Anvar's user pages as well as the Jeux Online French fan site. Jaxom 21:22, 26 May 2010 (UTC)

I suspect the fix is only for the activation procedure / code redeeming (that I cannot test, we'll have to wait for returns from other users). Other issues (ie: missing Sorrow's Furnace pack) are still present. Jaxom 21:30, 26 May 2010 (UTC)

According to Julian Soule, DirectSong is no longer supporting or offering Sorrow’s mini pak and it has been removed from the catalog. -- Gaile 01:00, 30 May 2010 (UTC)

Does this mean that people with the collectors edition of any of the chapters can now download it again? Af few people I play with every now and then had already installed the Collector's edition music. Upgraded or what ever and had to reinstall but they can't even download it anymore. It shows the same as the sorrows mini-pack did. I really wish we could get that. Even if they just strip the DRM from the raw music files. (on a side note: I heard a roumor that they lost the sorrow's raw music files in a system crash a couple of years back.) KJZ 08:40, 30 May 2010 (UTC)

Good to know that as 1) it's told nowhere on their web site and 2) it's still in my purchase list (with no download link but no warning whatsoever). I guess, I'll make multiple backups of my own 2005 copy just in case I have a harddrive failure. Seems to apply to Battle pak 1 as well cause it is not on sell anymore (though it still can be downloaded). Both collector's pak are available for download at http://www.directsong.com/wma. And when I upgraded to Windows 7 last November I could reactivate all paks (including Sorrow's, Factions collector and NF collector) through at that time I could not make any work ingame. Once again I hope you (ArenaNet) will make sure that the deal works better IF there is supposed to be a similar partnership for GW2. Jaxom 10:31, 30 May 2010 (UTC)

Gaile; is it possible to get you to chat with your boss about the sorrow's mini-pak to see if he can put some pressure on Julian to produce a DRM free version? There are a lot of apps that can strip the DRM, but one needs to have a working copy to do it. It contains some of the best music in the game and I (along with several others) really, really miss it. KJZ 04:34, 5 June 2010 (UTC)

(Reset indent) Just to let you know that some users on the JOL French forum have reported issues activating music previously purchased. Stéphane is aware of the info as he had replied after me in the same topic. I've asked people some more details, but they have not replied so far. Jaxom 20:06, 16 June 2010 (UTC)

This topic is weeks old, and I believe the issues have been addressed or the questions have been answered. I'll archive now. Jaxom -- if you do hear of issues, you're welcome to start a new thread. Merci beaucoup ! -- Gaile 20:13, 23 July 2010 (UTC)

Spe(e)lling

Preceeding or preceding? It's not pro it's pre, so away with the "e" :). -- Qaletaqa Hania 04:14, 12 April 2010 (UTC)

Dear heavens, you are eeexactly right about that eeeerror. :) I've passed it along. We may hold until we're making a regular update, simply because I believe if we change a single letter, everyone would be required to re-sign the UA, and that scares people a lot. No need to cause undue alarm, eh? :) -- Gaile 02:44, 28 April 2010 (UTC)

It's ok, no alarms is fine :). I knew that it would require people to re-sign it but I didn't know it scares people... I thought most people just click "I Agree" and go explore worlds existing out of 0's and 1's instead of actually reading UA's, EULA's, etc... Qaletaqa Hania 03:21, 1 May 2010 (UTC)

Hacked Account...again..

My guildwars account has been hacked again (2 times in last 3 months), I send a ticket to ncsoft support on 4 April and still no reponse, I have to say that in 4years & 10 moths playing never got issues but on last 3 months..... Ticket: 100401-000975 vamp 16:09, 18 April 2010 (UTC)

I am looking into this incident. I will need a bit of help with translation on the ticket, as my Spanish is no muy bueno. Pero gracias por tu paciencia! -- Gaile 20:27, 27 April 2010 (UTC)

Thanks for everything but still not a real answer, they ask to me last Monday if I could send a game key scan & I send it but still no answer, I wanted to participe in 5th anniversary but I couldn't.....and I think that maybe someone had delete my characters after 4 years & 11 moths playing..vamp 15:54, 3 May 2010 (UTC)

Hey Vamp. I see you've sent RAR files. Can you just attach a JPEG to your ticket so I can view the images? If I can get at the images I may be able to propel this through to a conclusion. Thanks. -- Gaile 00:23, 4 May 2010 (UTC)

I just send again the ticket with JPEG files attached, thanks again. vamp 09:05, 4 May 2010 (UTC)

Account Banned for Gold Sales

my account banned yesterday (Incident 100418-000943)

hi, Gaile. I got (Code=045) and it told me assisting with gold or items for real world money when i login my account yesterday.

I want to explain it, i just borrow ecto for my friend to make a chao glove, he say will give back to me next week and we are same guild, we have not trade for any real-world money.

I just play PVP and grow up my pve title on this month, just an exchange of unequal values trade for this times only, u can check trade with me that person, we are at the same guild more than 1 year and i know he also got 045.

I want to explain it for this reason and hope gm to be clear about that trade isnt trade for realworld money.

I already sent it to offical website" Ask a Question", but the gm wasn't answer about my reason, he reply that i violate the rule and insist me sold for real. He didn't to give me a chance to explain it.

Best regards, --EricChiu 22:24, 18 April 2010 (UTC)

Oh, I forgot to mention earlier- I recommend giving Gaile your ticket number so that she can pull it up easier if this situation merits her attention at a later time. --Strong Like Magikarp 22:28, 18 April 2010 (UTC)

thanks for your recommend--EricChiu 22:59, 18 April 2010 (UTC)

Hello Eric. I'm happy to note that, upon review, your account was reinstated. :) -- Gaile 20:20, 27 April 2010 (UTC)

lolwut?? EricChiu receives the CLEAR and FINAL answer from support that they WILL NOT undo the ban!? I really start to ask me what kind of company ArenaNet is; I mean.. what IF EricChiu did NOT KNOW about this wiki, what IF he did NOT KNOW about your awesome community work, gaile (both thumbs up from me for your job, btw)? The only thing he could do is to ask support, which in this case (and reading through lots of your other helping hand issues also) made it obsolete to ask for any help or further explanations. Why is there no link to your user page given out by default as it is with the Support-page Link? That is imo a shame as it simple denies help to people who dont know about this wiki and i m sure, lots of casual players dont. Keep going, you>support. Jack

Acct Blocked for "Fraud"

Acct blocked for "fraud" (100416-001409)

NCsoft seems to have such terrible timing to be dealing with this. It seems that they have some beef against my account for which it had 4 accounts linked up to the NCMA. All of this was done nearly a year ago when y'all had the 4th Anniversary Storage Pane offered for free. So just about a week ago, I updated the game and tried to log in and got hit with a Code=045 due to "payment fraud." Yet I have done absolutely nothing in the many months of playing the game and using it. If NCsoft has some issue with people having multiple accounts, why are they complaining about it now when they could have said something earlier or limit the number of same-game accounts on a single NCMA? It's frustrating and baffling that they would pick this particular time of the year to lock my account down when the Year 5 celebration is coming up so soon. I have every intention of attending this celebration event and now NCsoft wants to deny me of this.

With 4 accounts and several access keys attached to them, they want me to produce access keys to them for any/all campaigns that I own and yet I am having difficulty trying to find them all. The keys are already bound and attached to my account. And with time, they get misplaced and maybe even lost. Even if I do find some of them, I cannot tell what account they are attached to.

Many people have multiple accounts. And I know there are security issues. But why is NCsoft bringing this up now? — Sixshot 04:34, 22 April 2010 (UTC)

Payment fraud indicates that something went wrong with the credit card payments you made to buy the accounts. Either the payment was bounced later or something went wrong in the online transaction. This issue has been occurring sporadically, I'll refer you to this forum [1] which talks about the same problem you seem to be having. Also, I highly doubt this has anything to do with you having multiple accounts. If it is just payment fraud they shouldn't need the access codes either, just some information about the credit card or payment method you used. --Lania Elderfire 19:23, 22 April 2010 (UTC)

They finally got back to me after a few attempts at sending access keys for which the text are all blurry due to shoddy printing quality on some of them. Yet I still cannot locate the rest of my campaign keys that I have since, as a young male, my place is a stinking mess. With the access cards being made of paper, small, and easily lost in the mess inside my own room, what's the chance that I will be able to find 'em all? And they want me to prove that I am the proper owner?? The issue is "resolved" as my account is now accessible again but their tone in that reply seems to imply that they do not even trust me.

But I know that typical causes of "fraud" is due to CC payments made and that's understandable. And that's the first thing that came to mind when I saw that. But my biggest issue is that because of that implication, I dug up every single transaction I've made over the entire lifespan of my account. Aside from the non-monetary transaction for their 4th Anniversary Storage Pane offer, my only purchase ever done with a CC # is through the in-game store dated November 18, 2008. No other activities were made since then. I have done what they have asked with regards to giving them the final four digits of the CC # used on the last purchase, which is literally only that. Yet they still do not trust me that I am the proper owner and wanted me to rummage through my pile of foam peanuts and shipping boxes for access keys. This is terrible support to me and I cannot accept that kind of system NCsoft has for their account management. — Sixshot 14:46, 23 April 2010 (UTC)

Lately they are playing it more cautiously as many hackers have information about the account that they normally shouldn't be able to get though simple means. They are getting more sophisticated and are able to steal enough information to claim that they were the owner in the past. Unfortunately legitimate owners now have a much bigger burden of proof on their shoulders because of that. Access key codes are about the one of the few things that is very difficult/impossible to sniff out from someone's computer (due to the fact that the key codes are entered only once, and most people don't save their keycode as a document on the computer) so they ask for that more often now. --Lania Elderfire 18:55, 23 April 2010 (UTC)

(Reset indent) First of all, an Err 045 is not exclusively used to flag an account for fraud. An Err 045 simply means that the account is "locked down." Here are some of the reasons we lock down an account:

• The account was stolen
• The account was accessed by an unauthorized individual, usually identified when it spams gold-sale advertising for the RMT who stole it
• Someone made an error in an attempted purchase (wrong CC number, etc.)
• Someone used a stolen credit card in an attempted purchase - actual fraud
• Someone appears to have attempted to steal the game account
• A few other reasons

We cannot detect every unauthorized access, nor can we detect all stolen accounts before they are reported, but I suspect your situation falls into the "attempted theft" or the "unauthorized access" category. I believe that an RMT accessed your account and the team locked it down to protect you. Sometimes, when we're fortunate, we can do that before the account is stripped. And pretty often, the protective security action prevents resale of the account or removal of the characters, where they would lose all their titles and attainments. When we detect what appears to be unauthorized access or an attempt to hack or steal your account, it's far better for us to lock it down and reinstate the account to you, as owner, than to have to retrieve the account after it's been stripped. And that's where the access keys come in -- we have to make sure you really own the account, especially if we can see it was subject to unauthorized access. So do your best, give the keys you can give, and I'm sure the team will help. There is no "punishment" for having multiple accounts, and we do understand it's not easy to retain all those keys. (If you added to the account through the in-game or NCsoft Store and have emailed access keys, those can help.)

I have been away for a few days, and I apologize I didn't respond earlier. If you're still having problems today, please let me know and I will be happy to research this personally. If the matter has been resolved, I would greatly appreciate you letting me know that, as well. :) -- Gaile 19:44, 27 April 2010 (UTC)

The issue is resolved at the time but the whole experience left a very sour and bitter taste. The sentence that really bowled me over was "At this time, I am going to make a one-time exception." which gave me the impression and implication that they don't even trust me after sending them the access keys and typo corrections via images. The account name on the primary account is exactly the same as my email address, which they should also be able to see if they were to look. Ever since linking that account to the NCMA, there's nothing for me to do with regards to changing the account name on the primary. So it's pretty much stuck like that. Yet I get the feeling that they believe I'm some sort of thief. It's bad enough that my account is locked down as a security precaution. But seeing as I am absolutely and positively sure that my game accounts are solid (with strong passwords), the only thing I can think of is some idiot accessing my NCMA. I know the password for the NCMA isn't the best but I am unable to utilize a strong password because they won't let me use symbols and characters with my password. I don't like security questions at all. But the password being the first layer of defense, I'm still stuck where I was before with a weak password to use. I do not feel safe knowing that I cannot use symbols like ! or $ or # with my password. — Sixshot 22:23, 28 April 2010 (UTC)

Sure would be nice to have a complicated and long password like "jk^W398eufb3#@b26u28&" :-) --Lania Elderfire 22:30, 28 April 2010 (UTC)

For what it's worth, a well-known expert in the field of Internet security told me that some of the best (most difficult to crack) passwords consist of numbers and common words. That is, a combination of words-numbers-words can be extremely hard to crack, such as ball392apple or center14ape. I understand that you'd like to be able to use symbols, or would like to be able to incorporate a limitless number of characters, but an extremely secure password truly can be fashioned without symbols and with a cap on character count.

Having said that, rest assured I will continue to pass along the request for expanded password options, as I have done in the past. -- Gaile 00:43, 4 May 2010 (UTC)

(Reset indent) I just came back to GW after not playing for a few years, added a key from the steam trilogy offer and a couple of days later have been banned with this error code also (045). As an EU player its very expensive to consider calling the US accounts team and I fail to see how I have suddenly been flagged as fraudulent? To make things worse I have lost access to other NCsoft games too! What makes it even worse is I received no correspondence warning me of this and only found out when my friend and I, who don't get much time to play found I was banned. I did have the issue of not knowing a character name when I came back, which resulted in a lot of futile guesses till a friend found an old screen shot. I wonder if my numerous attempts to finally get in triggered some sort of protection. None the less I would of liked some initiative used in that I had a ticket (Which I self closed) explaining I couldn't remember a characters name. Putting two and two together they may have realised it was just a forgetful soul trying to remember a char name! Incident number is 100504-003625. (Sorry if this comment is wrong, new to adding on wiki like this)

Hmmmm... It doesn't appear your account was blocked for fraud. From what I can see, none of the players who are reporting a "fraud" issue in this thread were actually blocked for fraudulent activity, but instead were blocked because someone tried to, or succeeded in, gaining unauthorized access to the account. I will send an email today to the manager of the Game Surveillance Unit about this. I believe we can do a better job of letting players know what has happened to their account. If an account is suspended because we've noted unauthorized access, then I believe we should avoid pointing to fraud.

Regarding your situation, the team will get back to you shortly to explain what happened and to assist you in getting into your account. I do not think it will take too long for them to do that; feel free to let me know if you have not heard in a couple of days. -- Gaile 18:46, 5 May 2010 (UTC)

Thanks for looking into it. It would certainly make sense to change the warning given as my immediate thought was the security of my cards! I do appreciate you looking into it, and your presence is something CM's in other games could learn from. I guess it is a sensitive subject in that the GM's dealing with the cases don't know for sure the person contacting them is legit. So far though I have heard nothing to suggest if my account was genuinely hacked by a third party or if my attempts to remember my own password and/or char names triggered the block. If it was the former I could at least look then into how someone got my login! I was hoping to have the issue resolved by the weekend being our only main play time but this is looking less likely. I've offered to provide a number of pieces of ID in lieu of not having my original prophecies box but alas no-one has got back to me yet since being told it was going to a senior CS rep. The accounts have been closed longer than open at this point since I came back. --The preceding unsigned comment was added by User:Delket (talk).

Issue is now resolved however it took a while. I am left concerned though that the implication is someone gained third party access to my account. As no items were removed and my chars were where I left them it 'feels' like no-one used my account and I hope my IP isnt flagged as the malicious one or some such! I dont want to be here again next week. They could do to confirm that more than one IP accessed the account since I reactivated. Thanks for the help though, Glad to have it back!

Identical issue here - punished for buying the trilogy on Steam & adding it to an old account - http://imgur.com/60rRf&s2SJV [incident 100523-001645]

(Reset indent) @Sixshot -- I've read the full ticket again. I can understand how frustrated you were, but I beg you to understand the team gets many claims a day from "account owners" who are not owners at all, but would-be thieves. The reason you had to jump through the hoops was because a lot of the info you initially supplied didn't sync up, and that's exactly what happens with fake "owners." In the end, you're not really seeing mistrust in the agent's response, but rather the necessary (and unfortunate) caution that the team has to show in handling these issues, when scammers, liars, and would-be thieves try everything in their power to steal accounts, from fake numbers to photoshopped "keys" to lies about their identity or the circumstances of their account setup. I could tell you stories, or yes I could! Like the guy who said he was Fred Smith in Ohio and suddenly "remembered" he was actually a she, named Mary Jones, and she really lived in Berlin Germany but was... oh yeah... "visiting a friend in some unspecified place (I could feel her fishing for a location) when setting up the account." I mean srsly? :)

So I'm in the middle, which is sort of where I'm supposed to be. I feel your pain, and the frustration of what seems like a unrealistic (ridiculous?) sets of requirements, but I daily see the nasty underside of how would-be thieves operate, and the many creative ways they try to steal player accounts, and I'm resigned to the former to prevent the latter. I hope that makes sense, and I'm glad it all sorted out well for you. -- Gaile 20:52, 5 May 2010 (UTC)

Post-Hack Character Name Issue

GM giving out character names after master-account hack

Hi, after a master-account hack, can a GM give out any of my character names? I can't remember the security password so I can't reset my ncsoft-account password. All of my two GW account password was changed, one account is still logged in, standing in the ring of fortunes. I saw in my email-inbox, that support tickets were created (100424-000762, 100424-000763), asking for my character names. A GM wrote both characters in these ticket. He should have checked, that I was online everyday, so he should be suspicious that message couldn't be written by the original account user. I changed the password of the supporting account, hopefully the hacker didn't see that messages. I created a ticket regarding my ncsoft masteraccount (100424-001079). --Setsuna9 11:51, 24 April 2010 (UTC)

Hi. Thanks for the report. I am investigating. -- Gaile 18:48, 27 April 2010 (UTC)

Case closed. Got my account back. --Setsuna9 20:09, 27 April 2010 (UTC)

Yes, I thought it was, and I'm real glad to hear that. As I understand it, the email account was jeopardized, and that lead to some shenanigans or at least attempted shenanigans with the game account. I'm glad all is well now. (And I'm sure you re-secured your email account, changed passwords, used something really complex, etc., etc.?) Take care, now. -- Gaile 02:05, 28 April 2010 (UTC)

Gaile, need your help again. Ok, I just created a ticket for that payment faud (100429-000873). My computer is reinstalled (new windows, new anti-virus-program, new firewall, ...) after the incident last weekend. My heart is bleeding -.- --Setsuna9 03:01, 29 April 2010 (UTC)

According to the ticket, everything was straightened out on May 1st. Please let me know if you have continued difficulties, but it very much appears that your account is just fine, now. -- Gaile 01:01, 4 May 2010 (UTC)

Thank you for checking, the support unlocked my account two days ago.--Setsuna9 05:06, 4 May 2010 (UTC)

Great to know. Thanks for your patience, and welcome back to the game. -- Gaile 16:47, 5 May 2010 (UTC)

Can you please tell me the name of the GM who gave out the IGNs without proper investigation? I want to know whom i would like to talk with at support if i ever forget my IGNs cause i dont have any of the CDKeys i bought years ago.

Blocked for "Payment Fraud"

Payment Fraud ( Incident 100422-003257 )

Hi there Gaile. I'm beginning to get really frustrated. >_< Anet banned me about 5 days ago, because of 'payment fraud'. I'm not sure where this came from, but 3 accounts that were linked to the Master NCsoft account were also banned. The last thing that I bought from the store was a Extra Character Slot about a month ago. The payment went through fine, because the bank mailed a statement, and I've checked with the bank as well. I've dropped Anet a support ticket, and they're telling me that they want every single key card to every single account. This is almost impossible, because I've bought the game when it first came out, and I've either lost some of the keys, or I've bought them ingame, meaning that I don't have the actual paper.

I've read and understand that sometimes this error comes up because the account has been locked because it's been stolen. I know for a fact that my accounts haven't been stolen, because my boyfriend and I were playing together the night before. The next day, we log into our accounts, and they're banned. I was really looking forward to the 5th year celebrations, but by the way things are going, I'm not going to get a chance to participate. Right about now, all I want back are the accounts. The incident number is: 100422-003257

Please help me out, Gaile.

Hi there. I've taken a look at the ticket, and I can see that you received your last response on April 23rd. It's the 27th now, and it's unusual for you not to have received a follow-up response after its escalation. However, with so many people forgetting their character names (I mean, honestly, a LOT of people forget!) and with an upswing in tickets because there are so many players coming back for the anniversary content, I think we should give it one more day. If you haven't heard by end of day (US time) tomorrow (April 28th) could you refresh this post?

As I have said about other incidents of this kind, the lock-down was almost certainly related to account protection and not wrong-doing on your part. And as I've mentioned in the past, the team asks for as many keys as you can provide, but they are reasonable about the matter. I do have a suggestion for you: You mentioned in the ticket that you had made purchases through the In-Game or NCsoft Store. If you can retrieve any of the keys that were emailed to you with those transactions, that's all the better for account verification. Simply add them to your ticket, if you can.

Again, let me know if you haven't heard by Wednesday night or later. Thanks. -- Gaile 02:14, 28 April 2010 (UTC)

Hi there, Gaile. Thanks for responding to my above post. Anet gave me a response this morning. In this e-mail, Shane said that he would escalate my ticket to a Senior Support Representative. I really don't understand what this is for, because in the previous e-mail, Alec said that he would escalate our ticket further into support. I'll see where this goes, and I'll keep you updated. Thanks again

I just checked this ticket and you were unblocked on April 30th. I'm glad to know that everything is sorted out now. -- Gaile 00:35, 4 May 2010 (UTC)

Need Help

gaile im having alot of issues, i forgot my account details and have tried getting in touch with support but didnt even get an automated email, need your help please can you msg me thanks :) -- flexeh

You posted about this situation on my talk page, as well. That page is not intended for Support Issues, and I think you've come to me first, when you need to contact support. I have moved your other post, and my answer, onto this page and they are immediately below, in the topic "Account Problems." -- Gaile 01:39, 30 April 2010 (UTC)

Account Problems

→ moved from Feedback_talk:Gaile_Gray

gaile im having alot of issues, i forgot my account details as i have been off a long time, i remember my characters name, and also have tried request pass for all 3 emails it could of been but im not recieveing anything, i even went down the support route but didnt even get an automated responce. so i didnt save tickets, can you help at all if i provide you with some information? flexeh

I believe request password (from the GW client) only works if you have not linked your old email account to a ncsoft account, if you did link it and you lose password you must go trough proper (official NCsoft) support, make a ticket, give as much information as possible, make sure to locate all of the CD keys you used on your account as you will be asked for those as proof of ownership. If you did everything properly you will get your password reset in about a week. Biz 20:19, 29 April 2010 (UTC)

Hi flexeh. I'm sorry you're having troubles. Biz is correct; you should contact the support team and let them help you. I wrote about contacting Support here. I will differ in one thing Biz said, though: I think you'll hear back much sooner than a week. :) -- Gaile 23:38, 29 April 2010 (UTC)

Thanks for getting back gaile, well i manasged to raise another ticket, they asked for as much info as possible which i dont have much to be honest, im pretty sure when i signed up ages ago i was drunk so i dont even know if i put my right address details in. i know it all seems a bit fishy, but all i have managed to do is give them 3 possible email addys and my character name, i could tell them a name on my friendslist, im up the creek without a paddle, cant even find my game box with my code, things not looking good im going to lose this account aint i! Flexeh

Come on Flexeh -- don't give up. Work with the team -- they'll do what they can to help resolve this in your favour! -- Gaile 04:06, 13 May 2010 (UTC)

Support Times?

Just a quick question since I've heard Gaile gives the quickest answers: How long does it usually take for support to process something like a forgotten character name?

Generally 9-10 months. elix Omni 03:15, 30 April 2010 (UTC)

I don't find that funny at all. :( 72.174.40.13 03:30, 30 April 2010 (UTC)

Support regardless of topic comes back to you within a day. If you managed to provide all necessary information in your original ticket then it would be resolved there and then. Biz 03:51, 30 April 2010 (UTC)

Where did you hear that? In all honesty, support might get back to you within 3-4 days, and your issue could be resolved in a week or two. elix Omni 03:54, 30 April 2010 (UTC)

Yes, I provided all the required information in my ticket. I'll hope for a response tomorrow, and if one can't be found I'll just call the support phone number. I can't see them putting me on hold for 3-4 days... on the phone! :D 72.174.40.13 03:56, 30 April 2010 (UTC)

(Reset indent) Ignore the inflammatory comments, 72, I'll try to give you some real answers. :) For all tickets, you'll get a reply within a few minutes. This is (and is stated to be) an automatic response to let you know the team has received the ticket. After that, a human being will review and respond to the ticket, usually within a matter of minutes, certainly within hours. Please consider time differences, staffing variances (from weekday to weekend evening, for example), and calculate you'll generally get a response from a support agent in anywhere from 5 minutes to several hours. That second response should give you some idea of what's happening with the ticket. If the issue requires research, it may be a few days before it's resolved. If we need more info, the team will generally tell you at this point. And if it's just a matter of a simple review and escalation to an agent who is empowered to resolve the issue (without the need for further questions), it should be less than 24 hours before things are wrapped up.

In short, it's never "3-4 days" before you hear. It's very, very seldom "a week or two" before the matter is resolved. ;) And those few matters that do take longer are are the most complex and rare issues, like a disputed account ownership issue that requires great care and a lot of communication to ensure the team is giving the account to the actual, legitimate owner. For your issue -- the character name retrieval issue -- it could be a few hours to a few days, depending on certain details about your account and the info that you provide that I'd rather not specify publicly. And yes, calling the office is a great idea that usually results in resolution in a matter of minutes. For tips that may help you help yourself remember one of your character names, please see a brief article I wrote here. Good luck; I hope to see you back in the game very soon. -- Gaile 04:30, 30 April 2010 (UTC)

Hey now, I don't consider my comments inflammatory in the least. Based solely on the issues brought up here that I've read over the last two years, my estimates are accurate. Granted, that's only a slim percentage of all support issues. elix Omni 04:33, 30 April 2010 (UTC)

I'm concerned that people get distressed when someone says, "You're going to wait a week or two" (or "9-10 months"). It seldom takes more than a few days to settle nearly any issue. -- Gaile 21:00, 3 May 2010 (UTC)

Thank you very much, Gaile! You deserve your job, I'll tell you that much! I'll hope that tomorrow after I get home I'll have my account back, and if I don't I will try calling. I gave all the information that was requested on http://help.ncsoft.com/cgi-bin/ncsoft.cfg/php/enduser/std_adp.php?p_faqid=7638&p_created=1263496101 72.174.40.13 20:33, 30 April 2010 (UTC) (last night from a mobile device)

I got a reply, but they "escalated my ticket to senior support staff?" That seems like a little overkill for such a simple problem as a forgotten character name. 72.174.40.13 20:33, 30 April 2010 (UTC)

I hope this gets resolved before tomorrow. I really want to play :( 72.174.40.13 23:10, 30 April 2010 (UTC)

72 - was this resolved? If not, could you provide your incident number? -- Gaile 21:01, 3 May 2010 (UTC)

(Reset indent) It is taking support an eternity to let me login to my game. I have asked in "Incident: 100501-002884" to be reminded of a character name so I can play again after a long absense, and all I've been told is that it's been sent on to senior staff members! What?! How on earth can you implement something like this without having an automated way of being told your old character's names?! I sent my message to support saturday morning (CET) now it's sunday afternoon and still no help. What the..? I wanted to play this weekend! My wife has this exact same issue and asked for help a couple hours after me and she hasn't heard anything at all. This is so frustrating and disappointing.. :(

I understand your frustration, but be assured we have a lot of people working on these issues and the time that they take is taken solely to ensure that no one's account security is put in jeopardy. The majority of character name requests are handled within a matter of hours. The fact that yours has been escalated probably means that the team needs a bit more information to ensure they're working with the account holder. I am sorry that it is taking that extra time, but in the end, it's best to be conservative in releasing essential information. -- Gaile 21:08, 3 May 2010 (UTC)

(Reset indent) Hum not sure how this work:/ But here my request. I brough the game yesterday trough steam and i created a caracter but since i got caugh by surprise by the request to give him a familly name i kinda put one that sounded phoneticly right for a name, but when i tryed to log this morning they asked me my character name, trouble is i recall is first name but not is last name,i submited 2 request this morning. (i know i should not have but i submited 1 trough e-mail and another one trough ticket.) It was around 7 am when i submit my request and still no news (its 5 pm now)the ticket is 100503-001885, wish you could help:/

I am sorry that you've been delayed but it is far too early to ask me to get involved. The ticket has only been live a short amount of time and I'm afraid that you need to be a bit more patient about this issue, for hundreds of people a day require assistance of this nature.

We're working on making some changes that should reduce this problem. In the meantime, I anticipate you will hear from the team very soon, although they may be delayed a bit because you submitted multiple incidents that need to be merged in the system. -- Gaile 21:07, 3 May 2010 (UTC)

It's been two days since I've contacted support for help with a forgotten character name and all I've heard (automated message) is that they've opened a ticket(100505-000072). Any idea how long it will take to get assistance? It's not typical that a security change would block up the system so severely. Surely, having an influx of tickets was not a surprise. I'm not sure what other information will be required, so I'm surprised to see that the generated email didn't give me any clues. Also, there was no information on how long response time typically is in the email, I thought that was odd. Anyway, I hope this gets resolved soon, the bug to play is quickly being overtaken by frustration of not being able to play.

UPDATE: Eventually after enough tries and combinations, I found a character name that worked. I replied back to the automated email that I was able to get in, and was frustrated at the response time. A few hours later, I got a response telling me they would close the ticket. So, moral of the story is that if you need a fast response, solve your own issue, and tell them about it. Meh.

I'm glad that it all sorted out, and I appreciate that you took the time to write to say you'd resolved the issue with a remembered character name. I wish every one was this polite! -- Gaile 03:20, 13 May 2010 (UTC)

Update: Security Issues

Changes made to password functionality - April 2010

In December of 2009, players alerted us to a possible security issue with NCsoft Master Accounts. In order to maximize security while we researched the matter, we added an additional security requirement involving Guild Wars accounts. This secondary layer of security required a player who wanted to reset his game password not only to pass the security requirements for his NCsoft Master Account but also to input the game password in order to reset it.

As you can imagine, most players who reset their passwords are doing so because they have forgotten the original password. So with that extra security requirement, players no longer were able to do a direct reset but instead were required to contact Guild Wars Support for help. This increased ticket volumes and response times, and players were unable to join Guild Wars while they awaited assistance.

Both the Guild Wars and NCsoft teams conducted a lot of research on the reported security issue. The teams were unable to replicate the reported glitch and they could find no evidence that any Guild Wars accounts were stolen as a result of such an issue. We know there was confusion between fansite forums, websites, and game accounts themselves around that time; perhaps the issues that players reported were related to that confusion. We can state, though, that the security of the NCMA system checked out thoroughly.

Because the NCMA system successfully passed all the research and testing that the teams conducted, we removed the secondary account password requirement a few weeks ago. We did this because the extra step is unnecessary, and because it causes our players significant inconvenience. If we see any indication—and we monitor daily—that account security requirements need to be increased or enhanced, we will take steps to do so immediately. But at this time, we feel confident that it is appropriate to allow players who have access to their NCsoft Master Account to go ahead and change their game password without requiring them to jump through additional hoops.

Please let me know if you have any questions or concerns about this or any other support-related issues. I'll be happy to assist in any way possible. -- Gaile 18:54, 5 May 2010 (UTC)

Hi Gaile. I know i'm not an expert in these things but IMHO thats a silly rationale.

It's saying "No one has hacked us yet so we'll remove some security measures until they do."

Imagine a bank saying 'we've tested our security and since no one has hacked us yet and passwords are such a pain to the customer we've decided to remove them from our online banking system'

This is an open invitation to hackers and the like to 'come get me' I really hope this does'nt come back and bite people. Shan 20:42, 5 May 2010 (UTC)

Um, what? This is how it was for a very long time before that freak out with alleged NCMA hacks, which apparently turned out to be coming from elsewhere after all, so they rolled back to how NCMA password resets used to work to reduce the unnecessary load from the already overloaded support team. They didn't "remove passwords" or anything. O_O Also, sign at the end of your post, not at the beginning. Rose Of Kali 20:56, 5 May 2010 (UTC)

I fixed the formatting and signature placement. Hope that's ok.

The security requirements for GW accounts were not removed. You still need a password, still have all the protocols in place. What happened is that the requirements were realigned with the security requirements for all NCsoft games. It was determined that the second, unnecessary barrier to access -- put in place as an extra measure of security during testing -- safely could be removed because it isn't necessary. Extensive tests failed to verify, detect, or confirm the reported breach. Now sure, people talked about "a breach," and offered anecdotal comments to "confirm" it. They're still doing it. But the alleged breach was never duplicated or exposed in testing, when a bunch of people were actively looking for it. Pointing at something only works if something is there.

Now, if you think about it, no one has more of an incentive than the company to find a breach or any sort of security issue because it's in the company's best interest to address it pronto. And no one has more of an incentive and more of a reason than the company to keep their customers' accounts secure. It would be foolish to remove needed security if there was a risk. I confess my first thought was "Leave it in place," but as I mentioned, no one proved there was a risk and no account histories exposed a breach. The teams monitor account thefts carefully and if a situation calls for it, measures will be taken to boost the security requirements. But at this point, the extra step doesn't strengthen the system and it prevents players from working on their own accounts -- accounts they've accessed through security -- so the team decided it was reasonable to remove the extra requirement. -- Gaile 22:41, 5 May 2010 (UTC)

What terrible logic. Just because you guys feel that a security feature is "unnecessary" or "inconvenient" it's okay to put your players back at risk? You can never have too much security. Get that through your thick skulls please. 209.89.244.12 00:31, 6 May 2010 (UTC)

It's always a compromise between usability and security. Too much security and the endusers suffers from delays and inflexibility, too little you end up with more frequent attacks. Yes there is such a thing as "too much security". "Effective security" is a much better mantra to follow. The extra security that was in place was slowing things down, bogging down support tickets and the players were suffering as a consequence, and it wasn't making things that much more secure. --Lania Elderfire 00:57, 6 May 2010 (UTC)

Thank you Lania. Couldn't have explained it better myself. -- Gaile 01:35, 6 May 2010 (UTC)

(Reset indent) I think it would be good to say one more thing: We added two enhanced security measures back in the December/January timeframe:

• A player must enter a character name to access a Guild Wars account.
• A player must enter a second password to perform a Guild Wars password reset.

The first one -- the character name requirement -- is still in place and it will remain in place, perhaps forever. That is the one that reduced account thefts by about 95%. The second one -- the one that makes it necessary to use two passwords for a reset -- is the one that was intended to be temporary and that is the only one that was removed. Thanks to Emily for the conversation that lead to this post. :) -- Gaile 00:18, 7 May 2010

Err 045? Blocked for "Fraud?"

I am currently reviewing our communications to players concerning their blocked accounts. I'm specifically looking at the messages that players get when their account has been blocked for security reasons. What do you see when you get that "Your account has been blocked" sort of in-game message? I've been told that those receiving Err 045s sometimes get a message that refers to "fraud" rather than a simpler message that asks them to contact Support for assistance.

If you've recently received an Err 045, and if you haven't been involved in any issues with a credit card (even a CC error, not necessarily fraud), then please write out the precise in-game wording you see or post a screenshot here, or send me a screenshot via email to SupportLiaison@Arena.Net. This request is for those of you blocked for security reasons -- for instance, when the team spots a possible unauthorized access attempt on your account. Real fraudsters can ignore this request. :) -- Gaile 20:21, 5 May 2010 (UTC)

This happened to me on Wednesday. You can probably imagine what that message did to my insides, even though I knew I hadn't committed any kind of fraud or done any other questionable thing on the game. I'd just recently started playing again and being locked out like that felt terrible. Support is on the issue, but it seems to be slow work. Meanwhile, I sit here, watching all those gifts from Nicholas pass me by. I'm sure you already have a screenshot, considering the activity and size of the GW fanbase, but here's one for the site. http://i41.tinypic.com/sl731g.jpg 88.74.185.222 15:23, 8 May 2010 (UTC)

Thanks for the image. That is exactly the message I thought was involved. :( I initiated a round of emails last week that will prompt a change in the messaging that we're giving players who are blocked for security reasons rather than for fraud. The team at NCsoft and ArenaNet agree that we must use greater care in how we inform players that their account has been blocked, and they concur that it adds unnecessary stress for someone to get blocked for a good reason (protecting the player's account) but to see "You're a fraudster" when they're nothing of the sort!

I anticipate a message change will be implemented very soon indeed. Thanks for your understanding about the situation, and please accept my apologies for the alarm and distress that that sort of error causes. -- Gaile 03:08, 13 May 2010 (UTC)

I am another case of this, just happened on Sunday, It was "terminated" for payment fraud....? Im starting to get really impatient because I feel ripped off, and if this is happening to everyone...Im debating whether or not to apply the new Trilogy I bought today if my account won't be safe. euroman55 4:14pm, 18 May 2010

I sent an email about this on Tuesday, another email today. I do see this as an essential and necessary change that needs to be made, and I will continue to pursue this. -- Gaile 01:01, 28 May 2010 (UTC)

Wow, I have good timing. I just happened to try to login today (first free day since classes ended!) and I got this error, my heart plummeted, I don't know how long my account has been on hold/terminated/under security but I thought it might have been an error from the recent huge amount of bans (which I applaud! great job to everyone on that team!). How long does it usually take to get this resolved? I was hoping to get in on the War In Kryta Costumes deal before the 31st. 04:19, 28 May 2010

Should I still send an email to support regarding this message? Do we know when a fix will be implemented as far as the error code and message? CeleOOKIE 03:25, 2 June 2010 (UTC)

Re: Cheating

Let me put it more simply: You cheated. Your account was closed. The end. -- Gaile 20:43, 6 May 2010 (UTC)

Does this policy just happen to exclude botters? Or does that not constitute "cheating" in your book? --Lemming 22:27, 6 May 2010 (UTC)

I think you've asked this question of the wrong person, and in the wrong place. But the short answer is, yes, botting is cheating, and the answer to the predicted follow-up is "Yes, we block botters daily and will continue to do so." Of course, I can predict the follow up to that will be, "Why aren't you addressing (this area) or (that bot program) or (those people)?" Please forgive me if I decline to get into specifics. Again, we block bots daily; I know this because I get the daily and weekly stats which I share with the studio and publisher in one of my reports. And truly, we intend to continue blocking bots daily and examining ways in which we can make our efforts more effective. (I apologize for what probably seems a generic response, but I am sincere in what I'm saying.) -- Gaile 22:42, 6 May 2010 (UTC)

I understand that the support crew would be loathe to share their criteria for bot detection, but are the usage of visual inspection and common sense among them? The prevalence of interrupt botting and champ point syncing is well-documented by observer mode, yet support finds any evidence provided to be inconclusive, when taking a look would make it immediately obvious. --Lemming 22:49, 6 May 2010 (UTC)

As I have been banned for botting before, I find it highly ironic that it's allowed to go on in high end pvp. Surely it's obvious which ones are botting, if other players can easily spot this behavior? If you aren't going to do anything about that but hide behind words, I think a lot of people would want to have words with you about accounts banned, if indeed botting is no longer bannable behavior. -- Tha Reckoning 22:51, 6 May 2010 (UTC)

@Tha Reckoning -- I'm sorry if it seems I'm "hiding behind words." I'm not giving additional information at this point. I am not willing; I am not able. And I'm afraid that's all I can offer, for which I apologize.

@Lemming -- yes and yes, but on a limited basis, as is reasonable. That is, we don't have the staffing to rotate a dozen agents into ObsMode 24/7 to watch each match, detect instances of possible botting, discuss with other crew members for confirmation, and action the accounts involved. There is some observation involved in tracking bots, yes. That is how several dozens--if not hundreds--of botters are banned in any given week. Other means are always being investigated, for as you can see with the game content itself, there's no end to what may be added, changed, or improved in the future. BTW, are you using the /report system on the botters? Is there a way to improve that system? (Aside from the obvious, "Yeah, get a dozen people on ObsMode. :) ) -- Gaile 23:50, 6 May 2010 (UTC)

Being able to report through observer would be a nice feature. Also, these bots don't use tab or click to target if I'm not mistaken. Checking the logs to see if people interrupt multiple targets without tabbing or targetting first (They change target upon the interrupt) would pretty much weed out the botters from the non-botters.Rendier 23:57, 6 May 2010 (UTC)

/report can't be used in observer mode, unfortunately. We usually do use it as a team if we play against someone botting, for what it's worth, but since reporters aren't provided with feedback, I can't really tell you how effective it is.

A couple of tickets I filed over NCsoft support are 100419-001264 and 100201-001641, if you're interested in looking. --Lemming 00:15, 7 May 2010 (UTC)

Thanks for the tickets; I'll take a look. I agree reporting on ObsMode would be awesome. If we had a system to report, "Cheating spotted at 2:45 in the Match #11 on ObsMode now" that would be amazing. Of course, we'd still have to view, verify, discuss, confirm, and action, and all before the match falls off OM, but it could be a handy tool. I can ask about that for GW2. In the meantime, what you're doing is good -- having a team report live situations is very useful to support. -- Gaile 00:24, 7 May 2010 (UTC)

If you don't mind personally checking them out, I can guarantee this person is botting too: 100505-003323. He is a regular in HA, and he has a bar filled with 7 interrupts (something which is never done). He interrupts 4-5 different people in about 5 seconds, pretty much uses one interrupt after the other, on different people, and never misses a single one. I send in several screenshots and his name. Simply looking at his logs (The amount of interrupts he spams and hits is redicilous) should be enough to get him banned. Rendier 00:32, 7 May 2010 (UTC)

Guys, it occurs to me that I may have inadvertently suggested that I can help with something that I really don't have the bandwidth to personally handle. There is only one of me, and my focus is and must be on different things, for instance, on policies and procedures, on communication between developers and teams, etc., not (generally) on individual bot reports. I wish I could clone myself and spend my 8, 10, even 12 hours a day reviewing these reports. I put in a lot of volunteer (unpaid) time; I guess at 9:00 at night, I'm doing that now. But I can't make even that extra time go far enough to start reviewing individual bot reports. (And remember that skill bars and speed are not direct indictments or proof of botting; some legitimate players are good enough to look like a bot. And yes, some or many of those who look "too good to be true" are botting, I agree. My point is that a review is a time-consuming process and a light re-review won't be likely to change the outcome.)

Bot reports are reviewed and tickets are answered by support team members, and only rarely would one be escalated to me. If one is, I'll get involved. But I can't offer secondary or tertiary reviews of tickets already reviewed by the team. I assure you I am interested in the subject, and I'm committed to doing what I can to resolve the overall problem, as are many others and I really am sorry that I cannot offer to assist more directly. -- Gaile 04:04, 7 May 2010 (UTC)

I was not expecting a re-evaluation of those tickets - they are provided only as examples of violations that would have been immediately obvious upon visual inspection, but were nonetheless discarded as being inconclusive. --Lemming 07:41, 7 May 2010 (UTC)

Then I understand. And on that basis, I'll give them a read. Thanks for the clarification (and the understanding). -- Gaile 07:43, 7 May 2010 (UTC)

100419-001264 has been updated with some more screenshots, if you're interested in taking a look at what's going on. --Lemming 20:34, 7 May 2010 (UTC)

I've been tracking those. Just so you know. -- Gaile 01:51, 26 May 2010 (UTC)

Amazing really, how far technology has come in the last 20 years. How people create programs for botting that can be brought into a game that has not have that program in it's coding. 60.240.170.176 08:33, 7 May 2010 (UTC)

I call bullshit. We Need Help To Win [GWCA] is on your official site and they have a botting program for their guild tag. Hell, everyone knows they botted. At least 20 of us reported them for botting and all of us got the same response that you guys aren't going to do anything. I mean, fuck! A botting guild is ON THE OFFICIAL WEBSITE. Get your stuff together, support. 208.53.138.21 16:26, 7 May 2010 (UTC)

I'm pretty sure hearsay isn't useful. A lot of people confuse simple macros with bots. A lot of top guilds use simple macros to simplify their skill usage and Anet stated that as long as the person is actively controlling the character and isn't fully automated then it's not botting. I used to use macros all the time to type "/resign" faster with just one button, but that's not botting. For example, the macro can go F1->4->F2. F1 could be their caster set, 4 could be some kind of heal skill and F2 their defensive low energy set. As far as I know this type of macro usage is completely kosher. Also, many people are very quick with their fingers and play on systems and internet connections with very low ping, which makes interrupts, and cancels much easier. I'm not saying that there aren't bots, but the estimate my most people is probably overblown. When there are people around with fast fingers like this, [2] what makes you think that interrupt after interrupt is impossible for a human to do? --Lania Elderfire 19:16, 7 May 2010 (UTC)

It's one thing to interrupt multiple times, but it's a whole other thing to switch targets to an enemy and, in the same moment, interrupt them (according to a report mentioned above), or to flawlessly interrupt 1/4-second cast spells. Still, I agree that most estimates are overblown. --Kyoshi (Talk) 20:11, 7 May 2010 (UTC)

Between ping fluctuations, normal randomness, and the necessity of waiting long enough to see what you're interrupting, it's virtually impossible to produce results as consistent as these. --Lemming 20:20, 7 May 2010 (UTC)

I'm sorry but none of those are 1/4 spells. For some people they have practiced it so many times for so long they don't have to think anymore, and it's a conditioned response. Their fingers move before their conscious thought even registered that they interrupted word of healing. With enough practice, interrupting 3/4-1 sec spells nearly 100% of the time is doable. --Lania Elderfire 00:43, 8 May 2010 (UTC)

Just a question, have you ever GvG'd before? Or HA'd for that matter? If so, how much experience in these formats do you have? Rendier 00:53, 8 May 2010 (UTC)

You're either underinformed about how interrupting works, or you're trolling. --Lemming 01:13, 8 May 2010 (UTC)

Actually, macros in any form in PvP are "strictly prohibited". Or at least, they were last year. -- FreedomBound 01:26, 8 May 2010 (UTC)

The point is that a bunch of interrupts of 3/4-1 sec casting time spells on a collage of screen shots is unimpressive. Interrupting with Dshot is admittedly difficult to do, but not with fast cast boosted 1/4 interrupts like power leak etc. In any case, I don't think interrupt bots are as prevalent as they seem. Also I didn't mean to insinuate that you can shut down a person with constant interrupts, but rather any interrupt attempt made using mesmer interrupts would connect quite often. Freedom bound, thank you for correcting me on the macros, but the thing is... how do you distinguish macro vs genuine human input? --Lania Elderfire 02:37, 8 May 2010 (UTC)

I have no idea. I'd imagine Gaile and the support team do, though. :) -- FreedomBound 02:41, 8 May 2010 (UTC)

@Lania, it's not the fact the skills are consistently being interrupted; they're consistently being interrupted at roughly the same point of cast. (The bot adds a little bit of random delay to each interrupt, so as to seem less "botly") --Riddle 02:50, 8 May 2010 (UTC)

Ah gotcha, that makes sense, thanks riddle. And no, I haven't seriously HA'ed or GvG'd since mid 2006 which was when I started working and going to grad school. --Lania Elderfire 02:55, 8 May 2010 (UTC)

That looks like ping variation with how close those ints are. If they improve it to actually have random times it will be very difficult to distinguish vs a normal player (though there are still signs, but its not as conclusive). --67.240.88.57 02:59, 8 May 2010 (UTC)

There's a bit more to it - it's more obvious when watched in-game. The interrupt bot can switch targets and cancel your current action instantly. It's not as evident when mesmers are using it, but rangers can be seen spreading poison on targets behind them and turn around to dshot a monk that wouldn't even be on the screen. Also, if it were a human with world-class reaction time, he'd be whiffing on a lot of interrupts (Sig Rejuv, Patient) just because twitching as you suggest doesn't offer enough time to identify the skill being used. These bots never tend to not miss - any missed interrupts are almost always because the player used an interrupt manually. --Lemming 04:15, 8 May 2010 (UTC)

By difficulty I meant for support to look at, since that requires the time to watch through a match and actually knowing how the game works. --67.240.88.57 16:19, 9 May 2010 (UTC)

I'm not sure what kind of information GMs have access to. If their skill usage data is in the form of a chronologically ordered list of skills used in a match, I presume that they could scan it for skills interrupted by interrupts activated within a certain time margin. That wouldn't catch most of the savvier botters, but it could automate the process of detecting all those who run the bot out of the box without trying to disguise it.

Of course, nothing really replaces watching observer. Most matches would only take a few minutes to make a judgment call on, but we obviously aren't provided with statistics about how many specific matches are reported daily, or about what the GMs do with their work days. --Lemming 22:52, 9 May 2010 (UTC)

Review Requested

Gaile, could you please look into my support issue again?

Hey Gaile,

I don't know if you're really busy (I hope not :P), or if it's just bad luck, but I'm not getting any replies from my personal messages. I don't know if you remember me, but I contacted you a couple of months ago... Could you please take some time to help me figure this out? I know you got alot of other stuff on your hands, but for me this is the difference between playing GW2 and not playing GW2... Please read the email I send you.

Many thanks, RendierRendier 16:26, 6 May 2010 (UTC)

I believe I have placed you and that I remember the issue. In fact, a quick check reveals that you have sent me at least 10 emails from 3 different accounts; I recall a number of appeals to Support; I remember an email thread involving another staff member. All this spanned a period of several months and involved a few team members and the loss of considerable time that could have been spent on legitimate players and genuine issues. As you have been told many times, we will not reinstate your account. There is nothing to "figure out." You used an exploit; the account is forever tainted and it will remain closed. -- Gaile 01:26, 6 May 2010 (UTC)

And I realize that the above response may seem harsh, to those not involved. It will also be a cause of embarrassment to me if I have the wrong person in mind. ;) But I'm pretty sure I have the right player and I'm utterly confident that we cannot, should not, and will not reinstate the account. -- Gaile 01:33, 6 May 2010 (UTC)

Thanks for replying, and please read through this, albeit lenghty, next reply. You never specifically replied to me about your own announcement in which you state the penalties for these items, and the exact foundings of me exploiting Guild Wars. The only proof there ever was of me exploiting Guild Wars was simply me buying an item which wasn't concidered illegal at the time by your own official EULA.

Now let me start by saying I did NOT (ab-)use an exploit.Abusing an exploit, the definition of it, would be to actively look for/create an exploit in the first place, to then exploit it for your personal benefit. I never did anything involving creating exploits. All I did was play the game the way it was supposed to be played, untill I noticed someone selling an item, which I decided to buy. The way support makes it sound is as if I'm the worst thing ever to happen to GW, hacking Guild Wars at every opportunity and exploiting those exploits to "disbenefit others". I did not create, abuse or came into contact with an exploit, not in any way, shape, or form.

They were being sold on the forums, and everyone was buying them. They were not against the EULA, as former policies regarding these items in Pre-Searing clearly stated that Anet does NOT ban for these items and tolerates them. (This policy was made regarding the Guild Hall glitch)

You yourself know just as well as I do that many other people bought items aswell, yet they didn't get banned. You're not making an example out of me, you're making a martyr out of me, because I can name you ATLEAST 20 other people who still post (On PreSearing.com, the official forum) and play daily and who used/bought alot more glitched items than I did? How is it fair that I, who only bought 1 item, got permnanently banned a year after the facts, yet other people (some which still have those exploit items at this very time in Pre-Searing) didn't get banned at all?

http://www.presearing.com/forum2/index.php?topic=7582.0

I can link to this page, posted by you yourself (Which again I thank you for the time you took on Presearing.com) which clearly states:

[quote]Whenever a player is discovered to have skills on his character, or items -- such as weapons, tomes, foci, etc. -- from Post-Searing in Pre-Searing, we require that player to move the item and/or character to Post-Searing. That is and has always been our position: No skills, items, runes, tomes, weapons, or anything else that is exclusively available in Post-Searing should be found in Pre-Searing Ascalon, no matter when or how they made their way to Pre-Searing.

If you have a character whose skills were impacted by the use of Post-Searing tomes, you need to move that character to Post-Searing immediately. If you have an item, weapon, rune, tome, or anything else from Post-Searing – no matter when you acquired it or when it appeared in Pre-Searing – that item or weapon needs to be deleted or moved to Post-Searing right away.[/Quote]

This is exactly what I did when you posted this message. And bear in mind, this was posted about 7-14 days AFTER the influx of tomes was publically know in Pre-Searing. Presearing.com, the official fansite, even had a special section for tomes and NF items, promoting the trades of these items. Everyone (and I mean everyone) assumed they were the result of an update, because around this time, other updates got introduced aswell. (Charr baggs, kits, or some other stuff I can't recall) Hundreds, litterally hundreds of items were being bought and sold each day. Yet out of all those people, I got banned. Out of all those people, I moved my acount to post-searing straight away when you posted the new policy, yet I got banned?

This is not a question of "bad morale" when you unbann me. The bolded part clearly states characters with skills and tomes on them needed to be moved to Post-Searing. This is EXACTLY what I did. I followed your exact advice, many other people didn't, yet I got banned.

I'm really sorry, but even if it takes another 5 years, I love guild wars too much to give up my acount. I was in the right there. I purchased an item which at the time did NOT seem illegal (aka in good faith), when it turned out to be an exploited item (Which some aren't even illegal as your policy update states), I follow your exact words. How is it not a "genuine issue" when people are getting banned randomly, without even breaking the EULA? And on top of that, I asked you before: If the issue is that big (but still not my fault), I asked if you could simply delete the character on which the "crimes" were commited.

I never broke the rules. I never bought an item which at that time was concidered an exploited item. Going by that logic, every person in Guild Wars who EVER buys or sells ectos should first send an email to support to querry wether or not those ectos were the result of an exploit. At some point, you have to draw a line at which you say: "Ok, this item seems legit enough given the circomstances to buy", and as I said before: everyone else was buying/selling these same items, and they were even being promoted on the official fansite. And even after your public announcement, the bolded parts clearly mention the items in question (skills and tomes) and the penalties. (Moving the character to post searing)

As far as I was concerned, I never broke the EULA, but I was the victim of an inconcistency within that EULA. (Were these items illegal before the announcement? Technically they weren't) And for about 1 year, noone cared, untill I got banned out of the blue. I do not concider this a non-legit issue or a waste of support's time. I got banned for something which wasn't concidered being against the EULA, and I completely followed the rules of the new policy made in the official statement made by yourself. Nowhere along the course of the intire story did I break the rules in any way, but rather unknowingly (as about thousands of other pre-searing players) walked the grey zone in between.

I payed 100 euros, and put over 5000 hours into Guild Wars. With Guild Wars 2 comming closer and closer, Gaile I beg you to revise this decision. Rendier 16:26, 6 May 2010 (UTC)

I believe what Gaile states is true. I know it sucks and you feel jaded, but you had to know at some point that something was off about this. The saying goes, "If something is too good to be true, it usually is." That seems to be the case here. Also, your argument that others are doing it and haven't been caught or that you are a martyr is inapplicable. If ANet sought to ban one user for having glitched goods, it is a logical assumption that other users were also caught and subsequently banned. Gaile is a very helpful person, but from her response above, don't get more discouraged if she doesn't change her mind. I know this is easier said than done, but I would chalk it up to a learning experience. — Gares 15:05, 6 May 2010 (UTC)

The thing is, you didn't feel something was off. This wasn't a "too good to be true" scenario, because other new items got introduced into Pre-Searing aswell. (Charr baggs and kits and others) And if you take the time to read through the thread in the link I posted, you'll find what I'm talking about. It's 12 pages of people arguing that Anet always had a toleration policy on these items, and that people wouldn't get banned for it. I don't know of anyone not directly involved in the glitch being banned. Even Lil Puppy and Nursing Assistent, the 2 admins of the official fansite have had these same glitched items in their possession at one point in time. They did not get banned, presearing.com did not loose it's elite fansite status. (Nor do I want it to)

The point is the double standard here. Items which were concidered legal before the policy change turned out to be illegal post that change, but they specifically stated they would move characters to Post-Searing. I abided by the rules, yet I got permnantly banned without a warning...

Imagine if a person discovered an ecto dupe, and decides to sell thousands of ectos (At regular price) to thousands of different people who are unaware of their nature. By condoning the actions of support against me (banning me), you agree that it would be alright to ban these thousands of people buying these ectos, despite there being no indication for them of knowing those ectos were illegeal? Do you not see something wrong with that?

And that's exactly what happened. Upon the release of these items, everyone read through the EULA and past statements and policies. Nowhere in the EULA did it state these items were illegal (You can't tell if an item is hacked by looking at it, you simply can't), and nowhere did Anet state there was an exploit. Even the official fansite encouraged the trading of these items. Past policies tolerated the Guild Hall glitch items, as Gaile posted in another official statement. So why wouldn't these new items be?

There was no, absolutely no way of indicating these items were the result of an exploit, and given the situation, they were far from "too good to be true". (They were sold a bit above Post-Searing prices) If anything, they seemed perfectly legal given Anet's previous policies regarding glitched Pre-Searing items. Technically I didn't break the EULA. Morally I didn't either. I got banned for an inconcistency within policies made by Anet/Anet staff themselves. How is that my fault? How do I deserve to be banned for that?Rendier 16:26, 6 May 2010 (UTC)

If everything you say is 100% true then something doesn't add up right. You must have done something else that you aren't telling us to warrant a permanent ban. Maybe Anet made a misjudgment in this case, but I don't think so. You did everything anet told you to do and yet you still got banned? I don't think so... --Lania Elderfire 18:42, 6 May 2010 (UTC)

Would I be taking it this far if mistakes weren't made? My intire point is that I abided by the rules, and still got banned. That's the intire reason I'm posting here, and why I'm not giving up. I got banned for abusing an exploit, something which I didn't. They admitted I didn't directly abuse an exploit, but I still bought an exploited item. But there was nothing I could have done at that time to know wether or not that item was exploited. According to the policies at that time, the item was concidered legal.Rendier 19:12, 6 May 2010 (UTC)

"Would I be taking it this far if mistakes weren't made?" We don't know, and ANet doesn't know. That's the whole reason they haven't already handed your account over with a scripted apology.

"According to the policies at that time, the item was concidered legal." I'm not sure where you get that idea. An exploited item is an exploited item, and exploits in any form are against the EULA.

Your awareness of whether the item is from an exploit is the only issue here. I don't know the details. I haven't seen chat logs, and I don't have any evidence that you didn't know of the exploit. You can't prove you didn't know something, sadly, or this would be easily dealt with. --Kyoshi (Talk) 19:26, 6 May 2010 (UTC)

There was an exploit involving nothing more than travelling to your guild hall from observe mode which got alot of post-searing items into Pre-Searing. These were all concidered exploited items, yet Anet then made a statement in which they said: "We won't ban anyone for having these items, nor will we hunt anyone down" I came down to that as long as they wouldn't be a problem for the community, they wouldn't be a problem for Anet. In other words, they tolerated them. They were being sold and bought in public chat available for everyone. So yes, exploited items in Pre-Searing were not concidered illegal at the time. Frowned upon, maybe by some, but definatly not illegal or bannable.Rendier 19:32, 6 May 2010 (UTC)

As Gaile said on the page you linked: "This does not mean such items were permitted, only that we were not actively researching individual accounts, but rather dealing with each case as it became known to us." Bannable, in other words, though no hunting down. There was also a clause about moving characters to post searing, if I remember correctly.

Again, I don't know the details of your particular situation. Were it so simple, you would probably already have your account. --Kyoshi (Talk) 19:43, 6 May 2010 (UTC)

That WAS the policy change. http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/ArenaNet:Developer_updates/Archive_July-Aug_2007 Here you can clearly read that they wouldn't ban people for the first exploit. I, nor did anyone else, didn't know there was a new exploit, so I, and everyone else, assumed these items had fallen under the same category of "These items won't get you banned". Rendier 19:55, 6 May 2010 (UTC)

Keeping on posting half-truths, and arguing with people here isn't going to get your account back. You did something that warranted a perma-ban... Anet caught you... end of story. --Lania Elderfire 20:28, 6 May 2010 (UTC)

(Reset indent) It's important to note that, in all this detailed discussion, a key piece of information has been excluded: After obtaining the items in question, you continued to benefit from them long after it became public knowledge that these items were never intended to be in Pre-searing Ascalon. (It was public knowledge in the very forum to which you link and in many other places as well.) Through the use of the forbidden items, you obtained both Legendary Defender of Ascalon and Survivor on one character, something that is impossible without using illegal items, impossible to do in an innocent and unknowing manner. After all, the titles are mutually exclusive!

Moving the item isn't the point. Moving the character isn't the point. Allowing you to retain ill-gotten rewards in your HoM is really the key issue here. A mistake was decidedly not made in this situation; the only possible decision was the one that was enforced and the one that is being sustained even today. It is not logical for us to look the other way on this; it's not fair or appropriate for us to make a personal exception for you, despite the enormous pressure you've tried to apply through multiple tickets, emails, and now a wiki discussion with noticeably missing details. The support team is charged with helping legitimate players with real issues, and that must be their focus. While we regret the necessity of closing an account, that action is unavoidable and irreversible. Further inquiries, tickets or discussions are unwarranted because, again, we cannot, should not, and will not make a change to the outcome, given all of the facts at hand. -- Gaile 20:30, 6 May 2010 (UTC)

And the truth comes out... it all makes sense now. :-) --Lania Elderfire 20:36, 6 May 2010 (UTC)

I said I have gotten LS and LDoA. Or atleast so did I when I messaged you. Isn't HoM acount wide? How exactly do I "benefit" from them when HoM is acount wide? And if so, you hereby admitted that I didn't exploit the game, but rather the 2 titles are the problem. Why wasn't deleting the character an option? You are downright lying if you're saying I had a HoM advantage, because I did NOT add the titles to HoM yet! You don't want to make an exception for me, yet you are simply by keeping me banned. There is numerous of other people who bought the same items. Why did they not get banned? Did they not purchase them items with "benefit" in mind? Isn't every purchase made with "benefit" in mind? If the fact that I had both titles was such a big issue, why wasn't the option given to delete one of the titles, or the character alltogether? You forgot to mention that... Rendier 20:41, 6 May 2010 (UTC)

Let me put it more simply: You cheated. Your account was closed. The end. -- Gaile 20:43, 6 May 2010 (UTC)

I'm sorry, but now you're downright lying, and you know it. You already admitted I didn't hack the game. I didn't knowingly bend or break the rules and I didn't cheat. I didn't gain an unfair advantage because I don't have an unfair advantage. You say I got banned for having both titles, I say it isn't against the rules. (Which it isn't) I asked why didn't you delete the character, you say because I hacked the game. I say you said I dind't hacked the game, you say I cheated. I did not cheat. I did not break the EULA. I did not hack guild wars, yet it got me permanently banned. You say the key issue was me having LS and LDoA, yet I did not add them to HoM, so the character could have easily been deleted. Why do you lie about this? I did NOT add LS or LDoa to the HoM, I did not hack GW and I did not cheat. You're banning me on grounds of nothing, you know it, yet you keep chainning between those 3 arguements which contradict eachother over and over again...Rendier 20:49, 6 May 2010 (UTC)

I suggest you take a breather, read GWW:NPA, and cool off. Your arguments are all over the place and your accusations can be considered personal attacks so if you aren't careful you can end up getting banned here too. --Lania Elderfire 20:57, 6 May 2010 (UTC)

If anyone is looking at my comments immediately above and thinking they're a little terse, please, please review this thread and consider that this sort of communication has been going on, though multiple media, for months and months. Now I'm a "liar?" No matter what logical, clear, and well-thought an explanation we provide, we get an immediate, "But what about..." or a "But you should..." or some new way to continue to try to resuscitate this long-dead dolyak.

The team tries to identify those who cheat. When they do, they take the appropriate action. Now, like the police in enforcing the law, the team cannot catch everyone who breaks the rules. When such a person is identified, though, it's the team's responsibility to take the appropriate action. They did, and they will continue to do so, and that's really all there is to say. -- Gaile 20:56, 6 May 2010 (UTC)

Lania, Gaile called me a cheater, how is that not a personal attack? How is that not worse than calling her a liar?

Gaile, you never gave an information. You've always stonewalled me with 1 sentence: 'All reviews have been made, the acount remains closed'. I never said "what about this, what about that", my arguements have been one and the same since the start: I didn't hack the game and I didn't get any unfair advantage over other players. It was your side (Support and you) that kept changing their defence: "But no, you have both titles", "But no, you have many offensive names in the past", "But no, cuz you purchased a hacked item". I kept getting different reasons thrown at me each time the previous one deemed inplausible.

Why do you say you try to identify those who cheat? I did not cheat. I purchased an item which !afterwards! turned out to be illegal, and I did !everything! you told me too. Where in this process did I cheat? You said people should move their character to post-searing, that is exactly what I did. I trust you, I followed your policies and still I got banned. Rendier 21:08, 6 May 2010 (UTC)

I just want you to know shouting at one of the liasons will most certainly not get your account back.--Neil2250 , Render Lord 21:21, 6 May 2010 (UTC)

As Gaile stated, you used items not typical to Pre in order to gain an advantage, which was to earn LDoA and Survivor on one character (which are mutually exclusive titles) which is IMPOSSIBLE to do otherwise unless you CHEAT. Is that any clearer, cheater? 24.162.138.215 21:31, 6 May 2010 (UTC)

Gaile herself stated the usage of these items will not get you banned. Are you calling Gaile Gray hereby a cheater, because she is not abiding by your rules? I have no intentions to insult Gaile, but she's lying in my face, and she knows it. This is one of the saddest things I've had to go through in my life. She knows she's in the wrong, but instead she opts to call me a cheater out in public, whilst she admitted before I dind't hack the game (which was the ground of my ban), rather than fix this error on support's part. I did not break any rules. I did exactly what Gaile said, and that got me banned. She knows this, and rather than picking up her responsibility, she tries to save face by bringing in random, irrelevant facts which don't matter to the root of the problem. (Which is the fact that I got banned for hacking Guild Wars, which I dind't) Rendier 21:39, 6 May 2010 (UTC)

(Reset indent) LDoA takes months and months, and even then only if you do it every day. I can only imagine how much longer it would take to do that while simultaneously going for Legendary Survivor. I'm not sure how long it was between the first glitch that made it possible to bring items from post- to pre-searing, but I'm assuming it definitely was not longer than the length of time it took you to get both titles, which means the announcement that having both titles would, indeed, be considered cheating as the two are mutually exclusive would have been made during, if not before, your acquisition of said titles. Whether or not you heard/saw the announcement before getting the two titles is irrelevant, as it is impossible for ArenaNet to ensure that its entire player base is aware of all rules (or changes thereto). Although, with all the hubbub that was going on way back when in pre-searing, I honestly find it hard to believe that someone actively involved would not have heard it.

Not to intrude on the actual discussion, but I was just wondering something as I was reading this. Wasn't it once possible to obtain r1 survivor in pre-searing by having someone else die repeatedly while you stood back? I seem to remember a time when someone would die and, if your partner did NOT bring rez signet, the rez shrine WOULD rez the newly fallen player. Rinse and repeat with that same player, and all of a sudden you have a death leveling machine for one person and a leecher, with 0 deaths, who could kill the buffed-up baddies. I know this was fixed in a later update, but when was this? EDIT: Therefore, by doing so, you could potentially reach level 20 and have 0 deaths, qualifying you for at least a r1 survivor and a LDOA title. What was to stop someone from acquiring millions BEFORE the titles existed? Thanks, Curin Derwin 22:02, 6 May 2010 (UTC)

Ldoa takes months and months if you do it through dlvl'ing. When you can rezz a guy repeatadly, you can easily get it in a week. (It's 4-5 times as fast) @ Curin, you are completely right. Getting LS and LDoA was possible. That's what I'm saying, Gaile's theory makes no sense, and it was perfectly possible to get both LS and LDoA by doing it prior to past updates.Rendier 22:08, 6 May 2010 (UTC)

And now you started a thread over on guru about this - come on, you were caught - suck it up and move on, this is now starting to get silly. Gaile has been polite as possible through all of this (certainly here anyway) and in all fairness, it's probably quickly to start over again on another account than trying to force a reversal which is not going to happen. Ying Tze 22:17, 6 May 2010 (UTC)

Polite? She called me a cheater in public. How is that polite? She even knows, and admitted, I'm not a cheater, but rather can't unban me for "company image" reasons. She lied, litteraly lied about several other things aswell, such as the acount being tainted, LS + LDoA on its own being a bannable offense and me adding my titles to the HoM. (Which I dind't) Rendier 22:24, 6 May 2010 (UTC)

You cannot honestly expect me to continue this. If you are going down the path, did it not occur to you that you were getting the title "4-5 times" faster while getting another title that should have been voided by working on the first? I know you're grasping at straws, but if you're going to throw yourself on the court of public appeal, be honest and speak of what happened, not what "may" have happened. You used a cheated item. You obtained two mutually-exclusive titles. You were active in a forum that discussed the impossibility of such a dual title, that spoke of the consequences of owning forbidden items (which were still in your possession), and that made it plain that those engaging in the dual-title process were liable to have their accounts terminated.

You have been given the several reasons that the account was closed. You were told of the issues, by various people, many months ago. The fact you decline to accept the reasons, or choose to disbelieve them, or try to diffuse the startling clarity of the issue with obfuscation and deception does not make the reason for the closure any less reasonable or any less appropriate. The fact you may not have been given a 19-paragraph response every time you wrote one of your several tickets or sent one of your numerous emails does not mean the action taken was wrong, in error, or unjustified. Again: You used a forbidden item. You obtained titles that are mutually exclusive, i.e., having both titles is a cheat. You cannot, and we cannot, remove ill-gotten titles from your account. The deletion of items or the removal of characters is not the point. Expecting staff members to personally craft work-around for those who have cheated is foolhardy; asking for special treatment (even with the promise of secrecy) is unacceptable. If you choose to create a new account, we will not prevent you from doing so. If you do not cheat, the account will remain in good standing. But the one you want back was and will remain closed. And this topic is and will remain archived. -- Gaile 22:25, 6 May 2010 (UTC)

Bottom line: it's their game, and they've set the rules the way they wanted them set. When we purchase the game, we abide by their rules. You broke the rules whether you knew it or not (...and personally, I think you knew what you were getting yourself into). Que sera, sera! --Ulterion 00:43, 7 May 2010 (UTC)

Review Requested (Continued)

Repeat of Repeated Requests

Gaile I beg you not to go down the road of deleting my posts. I'm keeping it civil, I'm not "flaming" you and I'm not calling you out. Just because the issue is finished for you doesn't mean it is for me. You aren't the one getting mistreated, getting your acount banned despite following the rules and getting lied to by people you would assume to be trained to deal with this sort of stuff.

I did not use a cheat item because there was no policy on this items. It would be easy to say afterwards: "That was illegal item" whereas you know as well as I do it is not concidered illegal as long as there was no policy claiming these items to be illegal.

Both titles aren't mutually exclusive as you claim them to be: Quote from Curin: Wasn't it once possible to obtain r1 survivor in pre-searing by having someone else die repeatedly while you stood back?

This was perfectly legal, nothing against the rules, and it was a way to get LS and LDoA. Therefore having both titles simply can not be illegal on it's own or you're using a paradoxial arguement.

I did not use a forbidden item, because you explicitally stated these items could not get you banned. You're threating me different by letting the support ban me on grounds of malicious reasons, partially proven inaccurate by you yourself. Rendier 22:52, 6 May 2010 (UTC)

No, both titles have always been mutually exclusive, as the absence of a hard res makes it impossible to have someone die and be rezzed again while you stand back. Let it go, man. You know you did wrong. -- Large 23:14, 6 May 2010 (UTC)

EULA statement of both titles being mutually exclusive? By the way it was possible to get both titles before the ressurection shrine update.Rendier 23:22, 6 May 2010 (UTC)

While I feel for your loss and understand your position and feelings on the situation, I would appreciate it if you would leave me out of the discussion topics; I tried to ask the question out of curiosity and hope of a quick response, not to become directly involved. If it were to be to your benefit that the question was responded to, all the better for you, but it was not my intent to be brought into this.

While I am typing this response, I feel it is worth-while to point out that it's rather socially rude to interrupt someone else's issue with your own.

Hoping to lead you in the right direction, since I have been mentioned and am already in this AND I know your position is that you will not give up on asking until either your claim is answered or you are banned from multiple sites for pestering, I would suggest the following:

Find the TOA/TOU/EULA before the exploit, READING IT ENTIRE FROM TOP TO BOTTOM, and determine if there are ANY areas where "utilizing exploits", "advantages", or "unintended results", etc. are mentioned, then find the TOA/TOU/EULA directly after the issue, and find what the differences are. Then, know that you had found a way to gain something that, while may have been possible through other means, was obtained through a method that you knew was extremely less arduous than before. While it may not have been said that this counts as a bannable offense to have the SKILL (not item) in pre-searing before the open announcement, it would seem to me that it might be considered the advantage that I was speaking of before. I would suggest that if you were to submit another claim, you take time and submit something that frees you of all offenses through a CLEARLY OUTLINED LEGAL FLOW OF LOGIC. You need clear proof instead of suggesting that something the Gaile or the fellow support team did was wrong and they knew it. Maybe they missed something and you need to point it out to them. Maybe you missed something and need to find it. It is up to YOU to find your own answer or proof, not their team.

If you are truly innocent on all technical litigation counts, I am truly sorry for your loss and would hope that you would be restored your account. FOR ALL ELSE, stop annoying these people and understand that morally right or wrong, you were given consideration and it was deemed that what you did was wrong, and was punishable by litigation of the TOU/TOA/EULA.

I really hope that you would not quit because of a feeling of injustice. We will need people who are able to think logically and are determined to find solutions to problems in-game when GW2 comes out. I hope I see you there.

Yours Truly, Curin Derwin 23:29, 6 May 2010 (UTC)

@The comments about both titles being possible before the shrine changes, I may be mistaken, but I believe the titles didn't exist at that time. Misery 09:20, 7 May 2010 (UTC)

The point is that you could have essentially gotten LS and LDoA without the use of exploits. This itself simply can not be the grounds to keep someone banned, because LS and LDoA on itself is not a violation of the EULA. And Gaile clearly stated that me having LS and LDoA is the reason why I'm staying/got banned.

There were 3 factors incalibrated when they wagered my ban:

-The abuse of an exploit

-Having LS and LDoA

-Having gotten a distinct advantage over other players

And the truth here is that all 3 of those are invalid. I've proven all 3 of those are invalid, but Gaile, and support, simply keep hopping from one pillar which is breaking apart onto the other one. They keep cycling between those 3 arguements, 2 of which are not even true (There is no doubt about it. It's not a case of judgement. Either you have a distinct advantage, or you dont.) Having LS and LDoA can not be an issue, because it is not against the EULA. If they can keep me banned on grounds of that, they can keep me banned on grounds of anything. Gaile: "No, Rendier, you're staying banned because you jumped 3 times in a row into the air, something which is strictly forbidden by the EULA". I have not got a distinct advantage over other players. For starters, they could have simply stripped the titles or deleted the character. Then there would have been no problem whatsoever. But even if they were too lazy to do this (Which they were), HoM is acount wide. There is absolutely no advantage I have over other players. With maybe being able to get GWAMM 1 title before the rest, that's hardly an advantage. That's as much as having a fire imp, or the M.O.X. Golem over someone who doesn't. There's over 10 spare titles for GWAMM, enough to choose from.

And then there's the "abuse of an exploit". This IS and always should have been the ONLY reason that mattered when they concidered my ban. And they already admitted I didn't directly abuse an exploit, but rather unknowingly bought an exploited item, because Gaile Gray (And wiki) herself said it was OK to have to items. (Tolerate = OK) Even after she said it wasn't alright to have those items, there was still nothing mentioned about banning people, and as a matter of fact: She explicitly stated that people having bought and used tomes would not get banned. So there's the whole truth she keeps saying I'm hiding. She officially stated that someting that went directly against the actions of her and the support. She lied, and as a result of that lie, I got banned.

Regardless of me being a worthy person in this world, who might even deserve a temp ban for all the bad stuff I did before (offensive names), the truth is that I do not deserve a perm ban, as long as Gaile Gray is working for NCSoft, because she explicitly stated I would not get banned for doing what I did, and guaranteed it in an official statement. I did what she told me to do, and I got banned. Rendier 11:31, 7 May 2010 (UTC)

Rendier, please refrain from creating new threads on this issue. Gaile has stated her opinion in the matter. You have used the wiki to get her response and she has responded, not the way you wanted her to, but she responded none-the-less. It is not ultimately up to her to ban or unban accounts, so bombarding her talk page in the hopes that you can get your account unbanned is a futile attempt. If you feel you are still wronged, take it to support, otherwise the continued creation of additional threads on the subject of trying to get your account unbanned or how you've been wronged will be considered harassment. Thanks. — Gares 12:21, 7 May 2010 (UTC)

Rendier, I feel the need to comment on this, as I've been quite harsh with ANet in my GWGuru post here http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/showpost.php?p=5131420&postcount=18

The points made about the other issues (bots, contests, match manipulation) still stand, but I've changed my mind about your specific case.

The thread on Guru is closed, and I can't update my post or reply to add this; now I know the full story from reading the discussion with Gaile on the wiki. You were not telling everything in that guru thread, maybe because you were looking for sympathy, but this turns against you now.

The character was not deleted right after the policy changed (you didn't answer this question in the thread), nor was moved to Post soon after that.

You just kept doing your stuff long enough to get LDoA and Survivor on your character and then moved to Post.

So you knew that the character had no reason to stay there, but kept it there in order to reap the benefit of the glitched item. THEN, once you got what you wanted, you moved it to post.

I take back what I said. ANet was right. You deserved it.

Well now, that sheds a very different light on the story. If that's the case, Rendier needs to stop skewing the "facts" in his favor and get over it. Rose Of Kali 15:26, 7 May 2010 (UTC)

How do you mean you know the full story? I told the full story. If you're making up stuff, that's you making up stuff, that's not me not telling the full story. I clearly stated over 5 times in that same thread you allegedly read that I moved my character to Post-Searing as soon as that new policy was posted. I dind't keep my "stuff long enough", I already had my stuff for 2 weeks by the time the policy change was posted. I was already done with LS and LDoA by the time Gaile posted her policy change, and I definatly did not stay an extra day in Pre-Searing when she posted that new policy. I obviously didn't delete the character, because the goal was to get LS and LDoA. The fact that I had unknowingly bought an exploited item doesn't matter, because Gaile said you couldn't get banned for it. The fact that I have both titles is of no-importance because they do not give me a distinct advantage over other players, and neither does me having used a tome in Pre-Searing, because the acount was in Post-Searing all along. The intire point I made this thing is because I followed Gaile's EXACT words, and I still got permed when other options were, and still are available Rendier 15:29, 7 May 2010 (UTC)

Nothing good is coming from this thread. Let it die. Take it back to guru if you want to continue it further. — Gares 17:51, 7 May 2010 (UTC)

This is the circular argument the support team (and I) have been subjected to for many, many months. Not just here on the wiki, but in less-than-accurate forum threads where the account holder's "facts" and admissions change more frequently than the weather, and in emails sent as recently as yesterday. The account will remain closed. Because there is nothing more to say and because nothing will change (except the "facts" wiki and forum members are being told), I believe the best option now is to archive this thread. -- Gaile 18:51, 7 May 2010 (UTC)

Account Stolen and Sold Online

Hello Gaile, I am just wanting to let you know that NCsoft's latest downgrade on security seems to have been a great success. I went on to Guild Wars today to find my password had been changed. After several attempts, I try NCsoft to reset password, but once again, NCsoft password had also been changed. Surprised? Well I lost an account I have spent many many hours online on, with many achievements, which in itself is a huge loss. So next, I think of ways to get support or help in this matter, only to come across a site where I find my exact account, having been sold! Proof:(http://www.egamingsupply.com/forum/sell-guild-wars-accounts/125668-wts-r12-hero-c4-g6.html). Now, I'm wondering if it's just a coincidence that after this downgrade that I lose my account or not, but that's not really important, as I would much rather do all I can to retrieve it back and have already contacted NCsoft support about this issue but have had no reply. I know there's probably very little besides saying you're sorry that you can do, but any help would be most appreciated.

Thankyou, Chris. 85.211.139.112 19:01, 6 May 2010 (UTC)

If you've just contacted support, you're not going to get an immediate response. They often take action without alerting you right away. That doesn't guarantee that your account is safe, of course, but it gives them more time to quickly react to other issues if they don't have to craft a response each time action is taken.

Your accusation that it was the fault of the "downgrade" of security is silly, because (and this was explained two sections above) it was security which never originally existed, and which served only to cover up a supposed security breach when it was implemented. That security breach theory was debunked, and so it was set back to normal. My guess is that, yes, it's a coincidence. --Kyoshi (Talk) 19:34, 6 May 2010 (UTC)

If you would actually read the site he linked you, you'd notice that there has been an influx of hacked GW accounts being sold since the "security feature" was removed. And there are several other sites that are jumping for joy over it because it means that they can hack accounts more easily again. I happen to know this users situation personally, and I can guarantee you that it was through the NCSoft site. I've seen the emails and everything. 208.100.1.46 19:50, 6 May 2010 (UTC)

Or just check out the Aion forum. Plenty of people getting hacked there since this "security feature" was removed. 208.100.1.46 19:51, 6 May 2010 (UTC)

Or maybe it's the exact same rate as before, but more people are announcing it right now because they think they can blame it on the removed security feature instead of poor personal judgment. elix Omni 19:54, 6 May 2010 (UTC)

On EGS, check how many of the sellers list the account as "plaync linked". There's a reason for that. And, in this particular case, the player didn't post his information anywhere. Not on a forum, not here, no where. And his password was difficult. I really don't know what more he could have done. 208.100.1.46 19:55, 6 May 2010 (UTC)

I checked the linked account selling forum and I don't notice an marked increase in the number of accounts being sold per day. AION forums already have had a problem with their website security. afaik the site is more secure. Can you post a link to the part of the forum that you are talking about? --Lania Elderfire 19:58, 6 May 2010 (UTC)

(Edit conflict) The scare on the Aion forums about NCMAs getting hacked through random logins was debunked. The staff member who posted in the forum mistook it for another thread about how Aion forum accounts were having a similar issue to the scare. This is what the extra security issue was supposed to help solve, and after it was debunked, they set it back. If there is a marked increase in account sellings, it's not because the security was removed. --Kyoshi (Talk) 20:01, 6 May 2010 (UTC)

For EGS, that is actually a marked increase (I know it isn't much, you'd have to look at other GW account sellers to know what I'm talking about) and that's not the problem anyway. The issue, or what I was hoping you'd notice, is the "PlayNC linked" part of almost every account being sold. I didn't think I'd have to explain it, but let me just say that non-linked accounts are worth much more because they are more rare. In other words, it is much more common to find hacked PlayNC accounts. And the reasons for that should be obvious. 208.100.1.46 20:07, 6 May 2010 (UTC)

There are two things here. One is that most of the guildwars accounts are linked to PlayNC, especially the older ones that wanted to get the 4th anniversary storage slot. Second, having 2 doors is easier to get into than 1. If you hacked a forum and obtained passwords, emails, and character names, you can try both the GW login and PlayNC login. GW login might not work but the PlayNC login might, and vice versa. Reason One is the probably the reason that has the most impact on the rarity of non PlayNC linked accounts being sold rather than reason 2. --Lania Elderfire 20:26, 6 May 2010 (UTC)

(Reset indent) It's late, so forgive the brief response. I can tell you with certainty that the biggest stopper to account thieves wasn't a requirement for a second password. It was adding the requirement for a character name before someone is allowed to access an account. And that requirement isn't going away. The secondary password requirement is a different situation. By the time you get to that point, you've already (1) entered the appropriate NCsoft Master Account user name (which is not and cannot be the same as the user name for the game account), and (2) entered the correct NCsoft Master Account password. That is equal to what the normal bank requires. And as with a bank account, once you've passed those protocols, you are allowed to make changes to the account, such as password, etc.

I do understand that you feel you've seen "an influx" of stolen accounts. Again, it's late so I don't have time to research this thoroughly, but I would like to point out that sites go through fluxes in popularity, and if there's been an uptick in accounts offered for sale on this site, there may be a decline on another. The fluxes can sometimes be attributed to things like the closure of a competing site, a reduction in the "cut" that the site takes for a sale, and so forth. I ask nearly daily, and I have the team on alert to tell me immediately if I don't ask, and the word as recently as this morning was that there hasn't been an increase in stolen accounts -- either in the ones we identify (through tracking unauthorized access, which sometimes is possible) or in reports from victims. In fact, reports of stolen accounts are down compared to a few weeks ago. -- Gaile 07:54, 7 May 2010 (UTC)

What about this players case? He knows where all of his stuff was sold. Is there someway he can get the account back or his stuff? 207.126.166.2 13:41, 7 May 2010 (UTC)

If he files a support ticket and proves ownership of the account, I see no reason whatsoever why he couldn't get it back. Rose Of Kali 14:32, 7 May 2010 (UTC)

The account can be returned to a player if he can prove that it belongs to him. The items that were taken almost never can be returned, unfortunately. -- Gaile 21:45, 7 May 2010 (UTC)

This case seems to be one in which they left some or all of the items on the account; the site specifies that it has Obsidian armor. So there's probably some hope in that respect. --Kyoshi (Talk) 22:46, 7 May 2010 (UTC)

moved|to|Feedback talk:Gaile Gray#"Like a bank"

Thank You, Gaile. I need your help

hi,gaile. The reference number for your question is '100507-001319' , code = 045...plz help me,thank you! your friend--Weillz 09:17, 7 May 2010 (UTC)

When you request help, please provide more than the incident number; please provide details and explain why you are asking for my help. Please do not post what I assume are support issues on my personal talk page; instead, post them on the Support Issues page. In addition, I have extremely limited time for ticket reviews -- that is not my major job function -- and I ask that you never ask me to get involved with a ticket that is only a few hours old (as this one is). As I have mentioned in the past, it is best to wait for at least 3 days before asking for my help, and I would appreciate it if you only involve me in issues that truly need my involvement. I simply do not have the bandwidth to get randomly involved in tickets. Thank you for understanding. -- Gaile 18:43, 7 May 2010 (UTC)

Well, I did not say anything.--Weillz 06:42, 8 May 2010 (UTC)

its 045,plz help me...我没有进行现实的金钱交易，这个帐号被封很久了，我申诉过都没有效果，他们就是不同意解封。请问我如何来证明自己并没有金钱交易呢？--Weillz 02:17, 14 May 2010 (UTC)

For reference, he's asking how to prove he didn't make a real world money transaction for in game services. The only thing I can think of is, if the transaction was moving money between accounts, take screenshots to prove that all the accounts involved are yours. (我不知道。 你要証两个会计科目是你的。我觉得你应该有照片。） Sorry, my Chinese isn't that good. --67.161.184.231 11:10, 22 May 2010 (UTC)

我已经证明帐号是属于我的了，仍然被驳回申诉了。--Weillz 02:51, 24 May 2010 (UTC)

对不起， 你要确凿的证据. (Sorry, but you need compelling evidence).--67.161.184.231 08:27, 26 May 2010 (UTC)

哪些证据？--Weillz 04:04, 27 May 2010 (UTC)

我觉得一些照片是好的证据。 (I think screenshots would be good evidence).--67.161.184.231 08:58, 27 May 2010 (UTC)

"Like a bank"

Just out of curiosity, which bank exactly allows you to make online account changes just by having a simple static user name and password? I have heard of no such bank. For instance, my bank demands my social security number and a one-time 9-digit number generated by a 4-digit pin-code-protected external hardware authenticator. And not only for logging in, but also for making any kind of money transfers out of my accounts. I suppose that you are just repeating what your security people told you, but I have a hard time taking the "just like a bank" line seriously. --Lensor (talk) 23:14, 7 May 2010 (UTC)

While your skepticism is healthy, that's really beside the point. Even if the statement was inaccurate (my bank is more secure as well) that isn't really the discussion at hand, and we don't need to be branching off onto an argument about why Gaile used a bank as an example and whether it was appropriate. --Kyoshi (Talk) 00:05, 8 May 2010 (UTC)

It is not besides the point. I have seen this line used on several occasions as a way to justify current security protocols, and this is a good a time as any to call them on it. If Gaile et al. are going to contine using the "just like a bank" argument, I want to know which bank exactly they are referring to. --Lensor (talk) 09:55, 8 May 2010 (UTC)

My bank requires account number, password, answer to one of several randomly chosen security questions (selected and set up previously), and all this is entered via an on-screen soft keyboard, rather than typing. And it's just a local Federal Credit Union. Rose Of Kali 13:55, 8 May 2010 (UTC)

A on-screen soft keyboard would be a nice way to defeat key loggers. --Lania Elderfire 14:47, 8 May 2010 (UTC)

@Lensor: I don't care how many times you've seen it used. While it's obviously an exaggeration, you've called that out already. There's no more to discuss on the topic that doesn't branch off onto a tangent. --Kyoshi (Talk) 18:35, 8 May 2010 (UTC)

I missed the memo that made you king of the Wiki Kyoshi. It is not "obviously" an exaggeration, it is a statement pawned off as fact used to shut up critics of the NCMA security. I asked Gaile a direct question, directly related to the topic at hand, and it is not your job to decide whether or not the question is warranted. --Lensor (talk) 21:42, 8 May 2010 (UTC)

I also missed that memo. While what I said was a bit out of line (sorry) this doesn't belong in a section where a user is trying to get his account back, nor on the Support Issues subpage. I'm going to move it to the parent page and give it its own section. --Kyoshi (Talk) 17:18, 9 May 2010 (UTC)

(Reset indent) Hyoshi -- I think this truly does belong on the Support Issues page, not my personal talk page. The question relates directly to a support issue, and to a statement that I made about security at an intentionally-unnamed financial institution. Therefore, I'll post on my talk page, then shuffle the thread back to the Support Issues page where it initially was posted and where I feel it belongs. I'll also fix the indentation to align with normal topical hierarchy. Mind you, I agree it was unseemly to post in a thread related to a separate issue. But then, I think it was rather unseemly to post a mini-topic ("call out," "challenge," "bait" if you will) that logically cannot go anywhere. For I'm far, far too security conscience -- I learned at the feet of the masters, thank you very much -- to say "Oh I bank at (blah de blah) and this is how their security works." :)

Lensor -- You'll have to take my word for it that some financial institutions in the United States allow resets without requiring additional security steps once someone has passed the accepted security steps of getting into the account in the first place. But feel free to look into the matter, by all means. I am sure if you research you'll find find that resets indeed are allowed as I described. I am sure because I've done it. I mean, to do otherwise is like asking James Bond for another retinal scan once he gets inside the vault, and how often do we see that happen? ;) -- Gaile 02:58, 13 May 2010 (UTC)

Sorry about the inconvenience, then. --Kyoshi (Talk) 03:27, 13 May 2010 (UTC)

No inconvenience! I greatly appreciate (and agree with) your attempt to keep the former thread free of off-topic chatter. I know you acted with the best of intentions and that, to me, is everything. I hope that you are ok with my moving this back here. I think when I archive it'll be good to have this in the SI archives instead of in the many related to my chat page. :) -- Gaile 03:47, 13 May 2010 (UTC)

Well hey, it's your page. Whether I'm okay with it is pretty much irrelevant. =P --Kyoshi (Talk) 02:24, 14 May 2010 (UTC)

Report Command

hi Gaile. Why is the /report command so useless? 1) Brainless people try to scam me every day offering me 100g in trade instead of 100k. They change district or go offline and then I can't report them because of 'Person not found'. lol? 2) People are botting everywhere these days. Today again I wanted to report obvious bots, but by the time I typed their name, hit ENTER and selected 'botting' they were gone again. I'm talking about Zos Shivros Channel - American district 1. It's horrible... 91.181.78.24 15:46, 8 May 2010 (UTC)

"Useless" is a bit of a stretch. Yes, you can't report people who aren't in your district with it, but you can take screenshots and submit them by going here and clicking "web support". It's a bit of a hassle, but it works just the same. --Kyoshi (Talk) 19:18, 8 May 2010 (UTC)

Hi Kyoshi! Yes I know about the other options, but it's a bit overkill to report through support. Guild Wars is not my job, so I don't have time for this sorry. The /report command is just useless now to report scamming or botting en masse, that's all I wanted to say. 91.181.27.84 07:59, 9 May 2010 (UTC)

I asked about being able to use /report to report people who are outside the district, or people who quickly leave the district when spotted as a scammer, cheat, exploiter, etc. However, for various understandable reasons, the devs do not want to expand /report to cross-district issues and I stand behind their decision. I'm sorry for the inconvenience and the sort of "clunkiness" of the system. But having been here when we didn't have it, and now when we do, my personal opinion is that things are a lot better now that we have access to /report. As far as alternatives, it would go pretty quickly if you just shot a screenshot, attached it to an email, and wrote support@guildwars.com with your report. You see, I think it would be great to help the team fulfill or exceed my idealistic "Boot a Scammer Quota" on a daily basis. (Alright, I'm kidding about the quota, but I really, really, really hate scamming and as a player, and as a member of the ArenaNet team, I like to do whatever it takes to remove even one of those @*%^(# scumbags.) -- Gaile 03:56, 13 May 2010 (UTC)

100410-003542

Hey Gaile. I haven't played GW in quite some time, and a few weeks ago wanted to play it again. To my dismay, I forgot my password, and the 'reset password' button wasn't working. I contacted support and they said I needed my keys, which I don't have anymore(I bought the game years ago, never thought I would actually need them). If you can help me out here, that would be awesome. I have people that can vouch that this is my account. Thanks Gaile! Jorum 00:11, 9 May 2010 (UTC)

Have you ever ordered anything through the NCSoft store? They send you an email with the keys for that particular purchase in the email. So check your old emails and see if you have those keys. That's better than nothing. 71.246.212.134 03:15, 13 May 2010 (UTC)

That's a good suggestion there, 71. Thanks.

Jorum -- I wanted to say I'm sure sorry this happened to you. But the reason the team is asking for additional information is that they must be sure that the person they are helping is the real account owner. Unfortunately, no one can really vouch for another player (as a genuine, original account owner) unless he was present when the player purchased the game, was present when the player installed the game, and knows that the access keys align. I bet that's about one in a million, really. A lot of people say "This is my account" and sure, they've played on the account, made characters, done runs, gained titles -- and people can vouch for all that. Most of the time "this is my account" is 100% true. But we have to be careful, and proving ownership takes a bit more than "I played on that account" or "I can tell you a character name" or something like that because sometimes an account thief can say the same thing. :(

I hope that all makes sense. Please continue to discuss the matter with the team and provide whatever info you can offer to establish that you are the original owner of the account. There are ways to help you, even without keys. And the team does want to help you, not hinder you. You just need to give them a bit of help to be able to do so. -- Gaile 03:23, 13 May 2010 (UTC)

I bought the game retail, so going through my e-mail won't work. I'll contact support again and see what other ways I can get to verify the account is mine. Thanks! Jorum 19:56, 13 May 2010 (UTC)

Just an update, they didn't tell me any alternate ways of which I could get my account back. They said they won't reply again until I give them my keys. Is there anything I can do? Jorum 20:16, 14 May 2010 (UTC)

I read the ticket and the notes. This account has changed a lot of times, and the reason the team needs the actual access keys is that it very much looks as if this account has been sold, traded, or given to a lot of different "owners." We can only recognize the person who originally purchased the game as the owner of the account. This is particularly reasonable, if you think about it, because second, third, and fourth users of an account haven't paid for the game, meaning they have not supported the developers by buying their own copy. And without the support through sold copies -- remember we don't charge a monthly fee! -- the developer cannot continue to expand and support the game. (In fact, we're in the "hole" in answering tickets to people who are not even genuine customers of our products. :( )

I don't necessarily enjoy the rule that someone will be required to supply a key, but I do understand and respect the reason why it is necessary. If enough people pass along accounts and no one buys them, then ArenaNet, as a studio, will simply have to close our doors. If you are truly the original owner, I'm sorry for the inconvenience. If you are the original buyer of the account, then you can talk to Support and explain why it has gone through so many generations. If you're not the original owner, then as gently as possible, you you shouldn't have been playing on the account and you cannot expect further support. -- Gaile 01:14, 28 May 2010 (UTC)

Account Banned Code 045

Hey Gaile,

It seems as though you can work magic where it seems the support has turned their back. My account which I have had for several years was banned, I believe recently ( I never received an email about it being banned), for payment fraud. I have NEVER had any Credit Card problems or with any payments to plaync. My Guild Wars account and my master plaync account was banned for something I never did. I contacted support last Saturday and it said it went through but I received no verification email which I thought was strange, and I never got a ticket number, as far as I could tell. This account is very important to me especially since Guild Wars was my first MMO, I also have many games on the account Guild wars of course the most played. I have put countless hours into the game and several hundred dollars into the plaync account. Please help me resolve this. Thanks. -- Spitfire5792 19:01, 12 May 2010 (UTC)

You should add your support # for this. 99.239.6.27 20:52, 12 May 2010 (UTC)

If you did not get an automated verification Email, you did something wrong. First of all, check your junk Email folder. If it's not there, submit your ticket to support again and make sure you input all your information correctly, especially your email address. You should get an automated reply with your ticket number within a few hours. Once you get it, wait 3 days to see if you get a reply from a support agent, and if you don't get one or if it is negative, give the ticket number to Gaile. She really can't do anything without the ticket number. Rose Of Kali 21:18, 12 May 2010 (UTC)

I resubmitted (ugh now more waiting) and got a ticket number 100512-004113. Hopefully I will get a response soon, if not I will be back. Thanks for the assist! -- Spitfire5792 21:46, 12 May 2010 (UTC)

Well, keep me informed. I don't know what went wrong with the first ping, but I do believe this will get sorted pretty promptly now that the team has a support ticket on file. -- Gaile 03:26, 13 May 2010 (UTC)

We have success everything was verified and the account was released to me very easily and lucky nothing was stolen! Spitfire5792 20:53, 14 May 2010 (UTC)

Excellent news! Thanks a lot for letting me know. -- Gaile 01:52, 26 May 2010 (UTC)

White Aion Wigns Not Announced Yet?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WLcAiBq7A7w <--- (Edit from Gaile: I personally would avoid this video -- I think it may contain malware. Not to point the finger at the OP here, of course!)

http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/white-aion-wing-emotei-t10437342.html

Release It!!!!!! Lithril 01:42, 13 May 2010 (UTC)

The person in that video used a botting program from gamerevision.com to hack into the emotes and use them all. By doing this, they are able to access emotes that shouldn't be possible (like every single hero rank or every zaishen emote, etc.) The Aion2 emote is probably something that was planned and never finished. There are a lot of things in the dat and dll files of GW that have never been used. Unfortunately, this is one of the first times people have been able to access them through .dll hacking. 208.100.1.46 03:38, 13 May 2010 (UTC)

@Lithril -- I don't know about that emote. May it is. Maybe it isn't. I'm not being coy or secretive, I really don't know about it and I'm not sure if it would be productive to look further because, well, if we wanted to discuss it, it might best be discussed elsewhere. :)

@ 208 -- Botter, eh? We love nailing botters. I know some people get one a high horse and say that we don't do anything about botters. But I see the reports and I know that we do. And players who are paying attention see "I was banned" threads every day on the fansite forums, leading them to realize "Yes, ArenaNet really is monitoring, researching, asking questions, taking extra looks, and terminating the accounts of those who cheat, exploit, and otherwise abuse the UA." I guess time will tell if this wrong-doer will be nabbed. Maybe it's not if. Maybe it's when. Personally, as a team member and as a player, I'm crossin' my fingers. :) -- Gaile 04:05, 13 May 2010 (UTC)

That looks like a client side hack. Those emotes aren't actually showing up on the serverside which is why no one is reacting to the emotes in the video. It's similar to what a texmod does, it can make your character totally different but only you can see it. Everyone else still see the default textures. What that hack will probably look like to other people is the person is spamming emotes but only the first one will show up with zrank, all other spam until 30 sec later will error out. If the person has no zrank, HA rank or aion wings on the account, nothing will show up. --Lania Elderfire 15:20, 13 May 2010 (UTC)

All voting a texmod say I. --Neil2250 , Render Lord 15:26, 13 May 2010 (UTC)

SCREW THE WINGS, I WANT THE BOSS AURA!!!! O_O Rose Of Kali 15:58, 13 May 2010 (UTC)

Would this kind of client-side only hack be a bannable offense? Or is it in the gray area like texmod?-- Pyron Sy 17:08, 13 May 2010 (UTC)

I am unable to view the links from work, but if the emotes can be viewed by others, I would answer that it is indeed a bannable offense. One example would be if they had to flash a HA emote as proof of rank for squads.

I played Elyos. Let's get those white wings in the game and quit favoring the Asmos already. :P — Gares 17:39, 13 May 2010 (UTC)

From my understanding, any changes can only be viewed client side, similar to texmod. I've not used it myself, though, so I could be mistaken.-- Pyron Sy 20:00, 13 May 2010 (UTC)

All those people in there would go nuts if they saw these emotes, so no, they were not server-side. Rose Of Kali 20:16, 13 May 2010 (UTC)

"But I see the reports and I know that we do." Lol. You guys can't even stop rupt bots in the mATs. In the time it takes you to ban 1 account, you could of probably bought 10 more from the money you've made off one. 68.93.109.105 20:57, 13 May 2010 (UTC)

If you ask me, it looks more as if the guy loaded too many Aion wings, and the client stopped adding the texture to them. So the white ones are just normal Aion wings with the shading enabled, so you can see the 'feathers', but without texture, so they look white. Anyways, it seems no one bothered getting close to look, so it was likely client-sided. Kudos on the Boss Auras, though. People that have completed the HoM should be able to enable/disable it in there, and it should appear in Outposts, but not PvP or explorables. MithTalk 15:04, 15 May 2010 (UTC)

Wait, can we get official word on whether or not client-side hacks are ok? If the things done in this video are considered "legal", then I'd love to use the hack. Then again, there are hundreds of people who hack on gamerevision.com and are never caught, so I guess it shouldn't matter. 72.181.47.223 03:35, 16 May 2010 (UTC)

From what I can understand these client-side "hacks" are by large, undetectable by Anet, because the information reaching the servers are the same with everyone else. Texmods are allowed, I can't see how visuals-only mods aren't allowed... but yeah I would love to see some kind of official statement as well. --Lania Elderfire 03:52, 16 May 2010 (UTC)

That "hack," along with those infamous bots and KSMod all work in the same way - through dll injection. --Lemming 05:10, 16 May 2010 (UTC)

Hacked? How?

My account was hacked and a bunch of stuff taken/salvaged. The weird part, I haven't touched it for 3 years. I logged back in to try to see if I want to play again and also use it in GW2 (which looks awesome btw). From what I can tell from a few random unopened presents on some characters, it was about 6 months ago.

My boyfriends account got hacked a few years back too (why we quit last time) because the hackers were allowed to try a million different permutations before getting it. He got a million emails to prove it but you guys did nothing. He even a email from the guy who did it... still nothing!

Now I get hacked when I haven't touched my account in 3 years. Obviously I never gave my PW out (I had forgotten what it was!). I didn't even have the game installed to have a virus hack my information (a brand new computer to boot). It was an email address that was 3 years old too and I never use. I have updated Kaspersky software that constantly updates and I run every night before turning off my computer. I have no idea how I could have done anything differently. And you guys seems to think I did something wrong... how???

Right now, I'm just scared to do anything because it might get all taken away tomorrow and I can't do anything about it. I also really want to play GW2 since I loved GW and it looks really awesome. But I am not going to play if this type of thing "just happens".

I just don't call it coincidence that we both got hacked and that never happened in years of playing any other game.

Incident: 100511-000662

EDIT: On another note, does GW update your account so you get you stuff back now? I know when my BF got his stuff taken there was no way he was going to get it back (even with proof it was a system glitch and not his fault). --The preceding unsigned comment was added by User:Nuetina (talk).

In order to try to find out how the hacker gained access to your account, can you answer some questions? How well known is the email address used with the Guildwars account? Do you get a lot of spam or phishing attacks on that account? How complicated was the password for the email account, and what type of account is it (ie. gmail, yahoo etc? Do you visit forums of any kind? and if yes is your e-mail address public? If you do use forums, is the forum password the same as any other password you use for anything such as e-mail? Do you use passwords with similar patterns?

From what you said already, it is unlikely but not impossible that a keylogger was able to circumvent kaspersky antivirus and send the information out into the wild. Anything else can't really be said at this point. :-/ --Lania Elderfire 19:27, 14 May 2010 (UTC)

First off, thanks for getting back to me so quickly. You're not going to like my answers though!

The email address was my old college one that I was canceled when I graduated 3 years ago. I never used to for anything but my GW's account and school related stuff. Anything else I used an old gmail one (another one I haven't used for years). The only way I can see my GW email address now is in my PlayNC's game account section (it is no where else on my computer). I honestly haven't seen or used that email address for 3 years as I can't even access it anymore.

I don't use any forums except my guild one and that email and password is different.

As for passwords, after my BF account was hacked just before we stopped playing 3 years ago, we changed all our passwords to all different randomly generated combination of letters and numbers, all over 12+ characters long. I didn't even remember my password is was so complicated that I just got PlayNC to reset it for me. This happened immediately, I logged immediately onto my account and I got the 045 message. Never even got to log in. --The preceding unsigned comment was added by User: Nuetina (talk).

Wait, now I'm confused... Your account right now is blocked with error 045? I thought you still had access because you can see the items missing? 045 message can say one of several things, can you tell me which one it is? It's possible that the attacker was able to gain access on PlayNC and attempted to change the password there. Multiple password resets in a short amount of time can trigger a 045 error. Also new question, do use a wireless internet connection or through WIFI? If you do use WiFi can you tell me what kind of encryption protocol you use? Do you live in a city or suburb where people in the vicinity can "see" your WiFi SSID? --Lania Elderfire 21:07, 14 May 2010 (UTC)

Sorry about the confusion. It is no longer blocked, I fixed that issue (proved it was really me) with the ticket mention above. Once I did get back in though, it had already been hacked. And by the looks of it, about 6 months before (there were a couple characters that had bday's and got a new present since being hacked - all the rest were opened). I honestly did think I got the 045 error because of my multiple password attempts but I definitely wasn't the one who went in and salvaged all my fissure gear (for example)! Sorry... bad joke. No, I don't use WiFi. --The preceding unsigned comment was added by User: Nuetina (talk).

Okay, so here is what I recommend... Contact the university to make sure that the e-mail address is closed and inactive (to make sure someone isn't using it for malicious purposes). Do the same for any other email addresses that are no longer used. Then change all your passwords for emails and game accounts again, and write them down on to a secure notebook or notepad so you won't forget. Even if your house/apt does get burglarized, the last thing they will take is a innocuous looking notepad/book that says Calc101 on it. If you really want to be on the safe side make sure you have a software firewall (I'm assuming Kaspersky already has one) and get a rescue CD like this one [3] containing an antivirus software, just in case the Kaspersky program was silently compromised. Also what operating system do you use? If you have Vista or Windows 7, make sure User Account Control is on, If you are using windows XP, make sure your user account isn't admin level. --Lania Elderfire 22:18, 14 May 2010 (UTC)

This is missing the point though. I can be so extra safe and cover all my bases and yet still get hacked! These are overboard measures. I know my college one was gone a long time ago. My passwords were impossible to guess and I never even used them because I never even played! We do write all the PWs down and hide them away (we can't remember 12 random numbers and letters for 8+ games). Like I said before, my boyfriend had PROOF that is was not his fault and he couldn't get anything back. And no matter how safe we are, we still seem to get hacked (on an account I don't even touch!) and no one at PlayNC/GW will do anything about it. No recourse. Everything is gone, GG, game over, start over. I LOVED GW, really really loved the game. And I REALLY want to play GW2 but why would I play GW2 (or even Aion for that matter - which I do own too) if this is the case? We have both played WoW for years, never hacked - yet if we did do something stupid that was totally our fault, like delete a character or item, right way, great service, "here it is back"! I HATE to compare it to WoW.... but it is so hard not to when something like this happens. I see it all over these forums... people losing all their gold/achievements/gear. My BF didn't recover from it - but he does want to try GW2... he might not now after this happened to me. I am trying to... but without any support, it is hard. --The preceding unsigned comment was added by User: Nuetina (talk).

Can you please sign by typing ~~~~, thanks. There must be something about how they setup the game engine that makes it impossible to recover stolen or deleted items. No one that I know of had gotten their stuff back from hacking or accidental deletes etc. (I accidentally deleted several green items when I remade a character lol). I know these measures seem overboard but these are just some of the measures I use and they really aren't that intrusive or time consuming. Trying to figure out how the hackers obtained access to your account, probably about 6 months after the fact takes a lot of computer detective work and access to a lot of things that I don't have legal access to. So far I have never been hacked on Guildwars or anything else, and no sensitive data... at least that I'm aware of was stolen from me. I know it sucks that everything was lost, but all you can do at this point is be careful and not get hacked again. So we know right now that your e-mail address is known to hackers, and probably your character names as well. The only thing keeping you from getting hacked is the passwords. It would be really nice to be able to change your e-mail address after linking it to the NCsoft master account, but at the moment NCsoft and Anet haven't figured out a way to implement that change. --Lania Elderfire 23:11, 14 May 2010 (UTC)

@Lania -- on your talk page, feel free to offer advice. On my talk page, it would be best to allow me to answer threads, since they are being addressed to an ArenaNet staff member. Thank you. -- Gaile 01:03, 26 May 2010 (UTC)

Sorry about that, I was just trying to figure out how they were hacked and also help them from being hacked again. I apologize if it caused any problems. --Lania Elderfire 01:22, 26 May 2010 (UTC)

(Reset indent) @Nuetina -- I am glad to note that your account was returned to you. I am sorry that we do not have the ability to return items that were stolen, but that process involves many layers of complexity and simply is not possible in nearly all cases of unauthorized access to an account. We're finding that most older accounts that experience unauthorized access are accessed by Real-Money Traders in order to steal the items and, sometimes, to use the stolen account to try to steal more. Many accounts are stolen through social engineering, where someone actually tells the thief his credentials (usually when making a purchase of in-game gold or just through casual chat -- the people who do this can be very persuasive and very clever, unfortunately). Others are stolen because the thief knows, or guesses, the account credentials. It's scary that a lot of information is out on the Internet, sometimes with few security safeguards. The game servers and our network is secure, but we still see account that are stolen because the thief gets info from an external source, like another game, a fansite, forum, chat room, etc. -- Gaile 01:14, 26 May 2010 (UTC)

Hey Gaile I need some Help!!!

Hey Gaile Firemane here a guildmate/friend just informed me that his account was terminated code 045 because of payment fraud. I would like to help my friend out what does he need to do to help get his account back or to say the least what payment fraud??? Thanks Gaile!!! Firemane --Spike Firemane 23:46, 16 May 2010 (UTC)

Only NC Soft support will be able to help your friend with that. He should explain the problem to them, and they'll assist him ASAP.

If for some reason there's a problem between him and support, Gaile will do all she can to help (She'll need your ticket number) :) 83.101.12.233 08:27, 17 May 2010 (UTC)

Hey there, Im the player who got his account banned. Now, I payed for the Guild Wars Trilogy at an EB Games store in Ontario,Canada over a year ago. However, I purchased the EoTN expansion on 05/11/10 at 16:03, and I have he reciept to prove it.

Now I fully payed for these two games, and now because of an error on NCsoft's part, I'm accountless. I've tried contacting them in every way possible and I can't get a human to answer. Gaile can you please help me get my account back.

Ticket Number: 100516-002646

Username: euroman55

From what I can tell...there appears to be some kind of bug that is triggering code045 for no reason...with the most common error being payment fraud even though no fraud took place. I'm not Anet so I'm not sure about it, but this bug seem to be causing some kind of backlog with the support personnel. I'm sure they will fix the problem as soon as they are able to do so. --Lania Elderfire 21:47, 17 May 2010 (UTC)

Perhaps that is the case, because when I hit Death Blossoms on a very very large group of enemies, the game lagged, closed, and wouldn't allow me to re-enter because of Code=045. Regardless of the glitch, I need to speak to a human representative on Anet about this because I'm currently accountless and scrambling to put pieces together... euroman55

(Reset indent) There are no known bugs that trigger a Code 045. This situation involved an account theft, where someone lost his account to a hacker. The theft was not related to NCsoft or ArenaNet security, I hasten to add. The issue is resolved; the account has been restored to the owner. (And unfortunately, yet another person who asked for help neglected to update his wiki thread, darn it!)

I need to point out that this thread was created without hours of the submission of a ticket, which is why I didn't deal with it but allowed the team to work through the process in as secure and timely a manner as possible. I am not the "turbo key" for support tickets. I am not the "Get out of jail free" card, either! :) As I have said many times, please allow the team to work through these issues. Sometimes, in the interest of ensuring the security of an account, a resolution can take a few days. But it's worth it because the accounts are protected and the team is sure to give ownership to the right person.

So again: Please do not contact me until there has been a resolution that needs my involvement. Please note that my involvement is, honestly, very rarely required or warranted, and that changes in outcomes due to my review are pretty unusual. In the end, I am just one person with a large number of responsibilities, and getting pinged with a request like, "Can't you expedite my 21-minute-old ticket?" is not a good thing for anyone. -- Gaile 21:56, 25 May 2010 (UTC)

Question about what is allowed or not...

Hey gaile. I have a little question.. Are some script for the game are allowed? one of my fiend use a script to see life of other people in a better way, and tell me it's tolarate. I want to take yours point of view. And is arena Net do something to kick out and ban the bot in HA? why is there only 3 days of ban and not a ultimate ban? thanks for the answer

http://www.guildwars.com/support/legal/rulesofconduct.php

I doubt your friend's script works without complying to all the rules above (pay attention to rule 9 and 22). 83.101.12.233 11:32, 17 May 2010 (UTC)

Scripts that detects the opposing team's health and condition as a single panel as if it's in obs mode is strictly prohibited. If your friend is caught he will likely be banned. --Lania Elderfire 15:16, 17 May 2010 (UTC)

Fort Aspenwood Turtles Bug

They have been bugged for a long time now and reported bugged at least since early March. They keep getting stuck on the gates. It was a bug that existed a long time ago and appeared to be fixed but it's happening again lately. I have noticed something different which I think is new and possibly connected.

When I play I usually use the "r" key to run. In Fort Aspenwood I've noticed when a turtle stalls, I will almost always get stuck at the same location (where the gate used to be) as if there is an invisible wall there. It often rubber bands me on the same location until I click to the side or backwards and then try to go through the open gate again. 58.106.43.167 11:14, 17 May 2010 (UTC)

Gaile this bug is getting ridiculous. It's been in Fort Aspenwood for months now and whenever it happens it basically means the Luxon side loses. This is very frustrating when it happens in 75% of matches and there is nothing you can do about. When there is no turtle pressure on one side the Luxons are at a very big disadvantage. EDIT: Apologies for my tone. I just finished several matches where the turtle stalled and I was bothered by it while typing my comment. 58.106.158.34 07:11, 23 May 2010 (UTC)

Is this on the bugs page? The QA team reviews that page on a frequent basis. That's where it needs to be, if you would be so kind. If it's there and hasn't been addressed -- or more particularly if it has reappeared after it was fixed -- please report it. -- Gaile 21:57, 25 May 2010 (UTC)

Right here. The report is quite threadbare in its information though. -- WarBlade 00:27, 26 May 2010 (UTC)

Account Reselling

Hey

Selling accounts is still against EULA, correct? I have some screens you might want to look at, should I link them to support, or what? -- Tha Reckoning 12:22, 18 May 2010 (UTC)

stand in Gtob americwn dist for 10 mins and anyone can find one.--Neil2250 , Render Lord 12:26, 18 May 2010 (UTC)

Send the screenies to support with a short description of what time it happened and where. Usually their account will be suspended within several days depending on support backlog. --Lania Elderfire 17:15, 18 May 2010 (UTC)

Yes, please do report these people through any means on the support page. -- Gaile 00:48, 26 May 2010 (UTC)

Error 45

So i was banned for using a 3rd party program or bot even though Ive never done anything of the sort. Bots are terrible and kill the ingame economy as well as make HA, RA, and GVG no fun to play. I was home sick from school today and decided that raptor farming would be a good way to pass the time. I farmed for a few hours. I was in the middle of a run and i got disconnected and then went to log back in and i was informed that I was banned. I have done nothing that I know of to get banned nonetheless perma banned. Ive played this game since factions came out and have been and avid pvper as well as pver. Any help would be great. ive submitted a ticket 100518-002917 thanks 208.123.242.89 22:41, 18 May 2010 (UTC)TUBBZ

You submitted a ticket on May 18th. You wrote me on May 18th. The issue was resolved, and the ban upheld, on May 20th. So what did we learn from this thread?

• Do not write Gaile until your ticket is at least three business days old.
• Don't bot.

Sorry, you used a bot. There really is absolutely no question of that. The account will remain closed. -- Gaile 00:46, 26 May 2010 (UTC)

Botting Thread Feedback

Hi Gaile. I'm assuming that you may not be able to respond to this, since there hasn't been an official response from an Anet employee on this topic for a while, but could you at least let me know if you and/or the other Anet employees are aware of this thread on Guru? The thread has almost 650 replies and is 33 pages long, yet we still haven't heard anything.

That thread seems to have actually emboldened botters rather than deterred them, due to the lack of a response. The largest GW botting forum has gained almost 700 new members since that thread has been open (exponential compared to their normal numbers), and I think it would really help if we got some sort of official response.

Basically, all of us watching the thread just want to know is whether or not Anet plans on taking action against the new wave of bots. Or whether or not you guys have any plans to take action against .dll injection.

Thanks. Karate Jesus 16:33, 20 May 2010 (UTC)

No, they don't. -- Tha Reckoning 16:35, 20 May 2010 (UTC)

If you can find an elegant and effective way to prevent code from being injected into a running process like dll injection, by all means, please share it with us. The problem is, even if they did code some kind of anti-hacking mechanism, hackers can easily find new ways to circumvent the new protection. A Ring 0 dll injector is one example that circumvents most anti-cheating codes. As far as I know, one of the way to prevent some dll injections is to check the dll and stop it from running into the process if it doesn't match the "allowed list" of DLL's... or check it to valid MD5 hash values of the dll's that GW uses, but that'll lead to compatibility problems, and MD5 hash values can be spoofed. But coding all of that probably takes more man power than a single programmer in the Live Team, and wouldn't prevent all code injection techniques. --Lania Elderfire 19:27, 20 May 2010 (UTC)

"If you can find an elegant and effective way to prevent code from being injected into a running process like dll injection, by all means, please share it with us."

Use a rehashing client just like every single other PC game in the universe.

"The problem is, even if they did code some kind of anti-hacking mechanism, hackers can easily find new ways to circumvent the new protection."

True, but that's not a reason to do nothing. Anet's obstinate inactivity against the current hacking issues only makes botters more bold.

I'm not saying this is easy. I'm just saying it should be addressed. Period. By not responding at all....they're simply promoting an attitude of "Go ahead and bot! Anet can't do anything anyway!" Karate Jesus 20:31, 20 May 2010 (UTC)

Someone even part time on obs could find a lot of them. -- Tha Reckoning 20:35, 20 May 2010 (UTC)

I think SOE is trying a new method of client delivery by streaming the game client into your memory for that session. Obviously this would require a bit of bandwidth every time you load but the client on the PC side is only 50 MB. This is probably the only way to permaban bots from any game. Not implying Anet will even have the resources to do this. Just my 2 cents. - Chrisworld 23:34, 20 May 2010 (UTC)

Like I said, none of these ideas are within GW1 live team's capabilities. They are stretched thin as it is, especially right now, when they are creating new content. If they are trying to code something, it would take them several months in the least. --Lania Elderfire 16:07, 24 May 2010 (UTC)

You're missing the point, Lania and clouding the issue. All KJ wants is a response. Some kind of acknowledgement that there is a problem, or at least that they're aware we think there is a problem. Something more than naming off some figure of how many bots they banned last weekend. We'd like to know that they care about this. Because, up to now, it doesn't really seem like they do. 160.36.116.95 16:23, 24 May 2010 (UTC)

^ what the IP said. I'm well beyond the fantasy of a "we have a solution!" response. At this point, many of us would just like to know that they care about the issues and are actually trying to fix it. When players are capable of selling Kanaxai's for $4,000 USD and thousands of ectos for more (not to mention the rl sells from full HoM accounts), it becomes a bit much. I really don't want to see GW die to the bots. The mATs this month will be proof that the game is already at their mercy. Karate Jesus 16:41, 24 May 2010 (UTC)

It's a bit disingenuous to think that Anet doesn't care... I am sure they care. I am sure they also know about dll injections and the botting issue because they talk about it fairly often. I have seen Gaile say time and time again that they want every instance of botting reported and needing the community to help banning them. Anet has responded to previous inquiries here and on other message boards, and their response is consistent, "Botting will not be tolerated". But they are also consistent about lack of any real change to the code to prevent them in the first place...they can care as much as anyone else, but they just don't seem to have the resources. Even if they don't have the resources, they are not going to admit that they won't do anything, because that'll give a green light to dll injections. All that you or I can do at this point is to report people as much as you can and when you have time. Against high level PvP botters, obs mode is the best weapon we have. --Lania Elderfire 21:18, 24 May 2010 (UTC)

"I am sure they also know about dll injections and the botting issue because they talk about it fairly often."

You sure about that? They haven't responded to the last 4 botting threads on Guru and the most current one is 38 pages long and has 740ish replies, yet no Anet employee has responded to it. Actually, I'd love to see any evidence from any source that implies that an Anet employee is aware of .dll injection or even half of the bots out there. When Gaile saw the Youtube video of the .dll hacker who was spamming emotes, she acted as though she had never heard of hacking the client. Karate Jesus 21:45, 24 May 2010 (UTC)

757 replies. No response from A.Net. Sooner or later people will probably realise they have no defence against DLL injection and the higher arenas will simply be teams of bots v bots. Rolain1 05:21, 26 May 2010 (UTC)

40 pages and 783 replies later, and none of the Anet staff have peeked in? Seriously? After reading this interview, I'm a bit confused. According to Ree Soesbee, "People ask us questions on the forums, and if a thread has 400 responses, it’s obviously something that people are interested in. We definitely pay attention to those threads."

So, if a thread has 400 responses, then you're paying attention? Then it's time to perk up those ears, Anet, because the community wants your attention on botting and hasn't heard one damn thing. Karate Jesus 18:15, 26 May 2010 (UTC)

That could also simply mean that they are just lurking without replying to anything. --Lania Elderfire 18:17, 26 May 2010 (UTC)

Which is as unhelpful as allowing botting in the first place. Karate Jesus 18:36, 26 May 2010 (UTC)

Reset indent with [4] Anet's ninja ban. Apparently. Although if [iBot, TroO and GWCA are still in HA when I log on today, I'll know nothing really changed Rolain1 22:22, 26 May 2010 (UTC)

Thanks, guys. Great job. Karate Jesus 20:01, 27 May 2010 (UTC)

You're welcome. I think everyone should keep this event in mind in the future. It may be easy to think "They're not doing anything!" when in fact we're behind the scenes doing a ton to make the game better. Truly, The Big Bot and Match Manipulation Bannage Day of May 26, 2010 should go down in history. Just think... you're a forum veteran and someone starts grousing about some situation. You, with your years of experience, can point waaay back to 2010 and say, "Let me tell you, Sonny, I was around for Guild Wars, and I remember that time we were all upset about the bot problem, practically had our torches and pitchforks out, and lo and behold, they were working on the problem unbeknownst to us and smote thousands in a single day!" (Yes, I have much too much fun making up these little stories. I will stop now and answer other threads. :) ) -- Gaile 00:19, 28 May 2010 (UTC)

I wish I could see it happening, I missed it. :( InfestedHydralisk 02:27, 28 May 2010 (UTC) Can Dhuum kill me pl0x? Or can I get Falken Punched? :D

Oh, you might see it still. The thing I'm calling the DhummEffect(tm) is still in the game, and it will be visible every time someone gets actioned, whether for a minor infraction (short-term suspension) or for a full account termination. The effect is not just for botters; it is not just for people who have had their accounts closed.

If you keep your eyes peeled in a busy town or outpost, you may see someone go down in a burst of flames. ;) -- Gaile 03:46, 29 May 2010 (UTC)

Oh, I heard someone saying that Emily said that this was a one-timer. It's nice to know that the feature will stay. I wounder what will i be for GW2... some flying creature picking the guy and flying way with it...? XD

Nice work Anet! Keep up the awesomness, and Gaile, please, it's called Dhuumsday :p Rolain1 07:29, 30 May 2010 (UTC)

Bot Ban

Moved from your talk header page by -Neil2250

Hi Gaile How do you like this

I got banned a few months ago for botting while i never used a bot. After a few weeks it got clear to be i was nothing getting it back. Then the mails got a bit out of hand prob have sended over 100. After a while i started making new tickets over and over becuse they where ignoring the rest I still want to see the prove they had to ban me i asked for it but they could not show because it would compromise there bot detecting program. I am actually looking for bots now for my other accounts and some of my friends that stopped. Still had no luck finding one. I rather have evrything banned now because i have enough of it they completly destroyed my fun in playing games. So only thing whats left for me now is a bit flaming on forums. The worst is that a player has no rights at all you can be banned anytime they want and close it and say its final and ignore you. I spend 5000 hours on that account +30 char slots and other things then they repay me with this. I still get angry how they could ban me for no reason. But this has gotten already way to far unbanning wont solve it anymore to much is broken now

Greetz, Ronnie --The preceding unsigned comment was added by User:Babijn (talk).

(Note:i didnt write this, ive just moved it from your talk header talk) --Neil2250 , Render Lord 18:00, 20 May 2010 (UTC)

Yeah, Anet can ban you at any time, for any reason, or no reason at all. It happened to me. In case the person involving this issue is reading this, contact the BBB. They might be able to help you any further, that is if you're truly innocent. If you're not (And I'm not some wiki troll, or Gaile fanpage who automatically goes: "You're probably guilty, you just don't admit it." or "There's probably more going on here"), don't bother because you will have a real person assisting you trying to deal with NCSoft's pathetic -Speaking from personal experience here- support.

But if you are truly innocent, file a complaint and don't hold any information back. The website is: "https://odr.bbb.org/odrweb/public/getstarted.aspx"

If linking to an official american governmental website isn't allowed, just PM me instead and I'll pm you the link.

Good luck and kind regards. Rendier 10:00, 25 May 2010 (UTC)

@ Rendier -- Telling someone to contact the BBB is, excuse me, silly. The Better Business Bureau is not going to tell the company when or in what manner they can enforce their User Agreement and/or Rules of Conduct. It is not going to step into actions that take place on a company's private game servers. It is not going to take a company to court to impose a change in the UA or RoC. The BBB will ask for information, they will ask the parties to come to an agreement, they will try to mediate a resolution. But they have no legal standing to force a change in a decision made by the company's support team. And that is what I think you're trying to suggest, in the frequent "Contact the BBB" suggestions you (and perhaps others) make.

Now, I love the BBB. I trust them, and I use them for reviews of businesses I'm considering engaging. ArenaNet's rating, by the way, is an A- right now -- I'm proud of that and I'm working to get it to an A or an A+ in time. I ask that you not waste the time of such a fine agency for matters over which they have little influence. Instead, working with the team directly responsible for an issue is the one and only reasonable recourse for matters of terminated accounts. (And should an agreement not be possible, appealing an account termination to the BBB is fruitless. I know this without question.)

@Ronnie -- you've sent a massive number of emails, you've made numerous angry forum posts, you've wasted the time of staff members charged with doing things entirely outside the scope of your appeal. I have asked for a review -- a single, final review -- and that will be the end of it. The team has stated that you were botting, and unless that is overturned upon the final review, you're going to have to live with their decision. Few botters ever admit to their actions, but few who are marked for botting are innocent. We have more than 20 parameters that are carefully reviewed (by a human being) before a bot ban is placed. It takes a lot to get a reversal because of the care that is taken at the outset. In other words, if your account is marked for botting, it's almost 100% certain that you were, indeed, botting, whether you choose to admit it or not. Again -- your situation will be given a single, final review; I requested that today. We will let you know the outcome of that appeal via the appropriate channels. -- Gaile 21:38, 25 May 2010 (UTC)

As of today, ArenaNet's actually got a straight A. NCSoft, on the other hand, doesn't do so well... elix Omni 22:06, 25 May 2010 (UTC)

Well, that's great! I love the "A" rating. It had dipped for a while, and I'm glad we've gotten back into A territory. I know NCsoft is working on theirs, as well, and I'm sure it will soon rise. -- Gaile 23:49, 25 May 2010 (UTC)

Obviously when dealing with Support, it's always NCSoft. Arenanet is one of the best companies, I agree. I also have never had any issue with them in particular. The problem is NCSoft. Their support is one of the worst on this planet, and to make it even worse it's the only thing we have as Guild Wars players. Given, there are alot of nice GM's in NCSoft's employee list, it just doesn't make up for the douzens of rotten apples they have. GM's who refuse to review any reports, and instead ban randomly, GM's who refuse to communicate, even before the first email and simply retarded GM's who believe "Tyria" is some kind of monster you kill.

When I said contact the BBB, I meant just that. If he is truly innocent or not, that is not your call, or Gaile's to make. There is one person on this planet, and one only, who knows if he is innocent, and that's himself. If he knows he is innocent, why not contact the BBB? After all, you've paid REAL money for Guild Wars, and is in no way different from having bought a cellphone, car or service within the same price range. (+- 120 euros for me)

But by god, people actually not giving up when their acounts have been "stolen" (so to speak) from them aswell as all the money and time invested into them, what has the world come to? Rendier 00:04, 26 May 2010 (UTC)

Actually Rendier, I have to disagree with you. This isn't a case of a "thought crime" or something else that is impossible to prove, that only the "accused" knows the truth about. In this case, it's pretty simple: If we can see that the account was used for botting, and if the account wasn't stolen and used by some scurrilous account thief, then what's the only possible conclusion? That the owner himself (or someone to whom he gave access) was botting! And both -- botting and giving access to someone else -- are a breach of the User Agreement. I don't think Ronnie claims his account was stolen and used inappropriately; I believe he says he was in control of his account but did not bot. In the end, I've requested additional details and I intend to reserve judgment about this matter until we see what turns up in my review. -- Gaile 06:52, 26 May 2010 (UTC)

Payment Fraud

Hello Gaile! Yesterday, when after a little break from Guild Wars I tried to log into game I revised ban information. First was about ban for 68h for gold buying. It was first shock! I have never bought anything (gold, items) for real money! But today my account became banned permament for "Payment Fraud". I've already sent messages for support, but I need to be sure - If my account was hacked, I think its possible and theres no other way to ban my account, can I get it back? This game was really all my world - about 2 years of playing and some nice characters... are now lost. Thanks for help, Illithin. --The preceding unsigned comment was added by User:Illithin (talk).

Payment fraud sometimes means a check hasent gone through, or money, like if you have reasently bought something from the in-game shop--Neil2250 , Portal Jumper 20:50, 21 May 2010 (UTC)

Well - I have never bought anything from in-game shop. -Illithin --The preceding unsigned comment was added by User:Illithin (talk).

Well then, im clueless, but dont loose hope, not everyone loses their account forever after bans,dont worry about it ^_^ --Neil2250 , Portal Jumper 20:56, 21 May 2010 (UTC)

Thanks mate - I still have hope that my lovley monk will be back :) -Illithin --The preceding unsigned comment was added by User:Illithin (talk).

You need to wait for a response from the support team before taking the matter to Gaile- she's busy enough already. elix Omni 21:41, 21 May 2010 (UTC)

(Reset indent) We have a messaging issue at play here, and I just sent an email to try to get that corrected. Innocent folks sometimes do see the "fraud" block message even when fraud was in no way involved. For instance, maybe your account was stolen and we blocked it to protect it. You may still see that alarming "fraud" message. Please do submit a ticket to support so they can help you. (And if this has been resolved, please let me know that as well.) Thanks. -- Gaile 22:21, 25 May 2010 (UTC)

Thanks Gaile - Its possible that my account was stolen, I've already had one time stolen account, bute I've lost just 100k and some items, I've changed my passwords to everything! It was shock... I'll contact with support in minutes. --Illithin 19:52, 26 May 2010 (UTC)

Yes! I have my account back! Thanks Gaile again - ArenaNet is realy great! --Illithin 21:15, 28 May 2010 (UTC)

Shame at this that I've lost everything :( --Illithin 21:35, 28 May 2010 (UTC)

Yes, that is a horrible shame! :( I have reviewed account details and seen an RMT wipe an account in a matter of scant minutes after they manage to access the account. They are--well, what can I call them? Professional thieves?--and they can work very quickly, sometimes. And while we try to lock down accounts we feel are in jeopardy, it's not possible for us to do that in every case, because most access is undetectable until we hear from the account owner.

I am very sorry that you experienced loss of items, but if the pattern holds true, your characters remain, along with their achievements and anything you've entered into your Hall of Monuments. Do change all the details that you can, make sure that no one has that information, and best of luck in the future. -- Gaile 03:44, 29 May 2010 (UTC)

Ye, they are professional thieves - thats good that theres a account - not character HoM (but my unded White Rabbit is gone... for ever :( ) and I just can't lose all things. Now I know what mean 'New Beggining' :/ Thanks for your words Gaile and for your time. --Illithin 09:43, 29 May 2010 (UTC)

Friend Banned

Friend banned and contact refuses communication.

Dear Gaile,

I'm posting on a friend's behalve because he doesn't have the experience or patience to write here on wiki. The issue he's having is that he got permanently banned for "Real World Trading", whereas he isn't fully guilty of that. (More explanation of this later)

First I would like to note that he is not, with no doubt whatsoever, a real world trader. He never bought or sold Guild Wars currency with the intention of making a real life profit. He never broke the rules in a severe matter, and aside from 2 breaches orso, his record is clean. More precisely on those breaches: He got a 1 week ban for the name: "Six Is A Ninja", and aside from this illustrating how redicilous the NCSoft Support can get at times, it also illustrates how uneffective the support works. (There is nothing offensive about that name, and someone solely reported him out of "PvP-spite") Other than that, he always tried to abide by the rules, which he did, untill recently he got permanently banned for selling guild wars currency for real life items.

The truth is that he DID pay 20K for a Halo 3 beta key. And he admits to that. (Even wrote it to support) He made a bad call in buying a beta key for Guild Wars gold, and he apologized for that aswell. But isn't the punishment(Ironically, just like in my case) a bit extreme for the commited facts? We're talking about 20K Guild Wars gold here. A quick trip to the biggest Guild Wars Black Market site (google wins) shows use that this converts to about 50 cents (USD). Is a permanent ban over 50 cents really the right course of action? Especially on someone with such a clean record like him? Someone who already had to go through an unrightious ban (Six Is A Ninja) before without making too much hassle about it?

If you strive to follow up the rules so closely (50 cents = worthy of a permanent ban), why exactly is it then that PvP botters can roam freely? Why is it that people abusing in-game exploits such as the current dual modding of green peacekeeper weapons (which is by all definitions abusing an exploit) stay unbanned? Why is it that so many dupers, some being famous within the GW PvE scene aswell for being so incredibly wealthy, stay unbanned?

The issue here is the double standard. The discrimation of some people (this the definition of discrimnation) and the privileging of others is not something to strive for in a game, in my humble opinion.

Please reply swiftly,

Kind Regards Rendier 10:21, 25 May 2010 (UTC)

he is not, with no doubt whatsoever, a real world trader -- he DID pay 20K for a Halo 3 beta key Those two statements directly contradict each other. He broke the rules and, apparently, admits to it. End of story. "But X got away with Y!" has never been a valid argument. Yanna Cor & family 15:13, 25 May 2010 (UTC)

I meant that in the more common meaning of the word. He doesn't make a profit from selling Guild Wars gold. He doesn't wake up in the morning trying to find buyers for his GW gold. He only bought one small non-physical thing for 20k. Permanent banning someone for this is a storm in a glass of water. "X got away with Y" is a valid arguement when all Anet/NCSoft does is enforce double standards. If the cops ignore someone planting a C4 bomb under a building, people are obviously going to think they'll do the same thing when you throw a fire cracker on the street. And even then, he admitted he broke the rules, as do I. But is a permanent ban on someone with a clean record the right course of action? To me, this just smells like a dirty way to make more money. Rake in more cash by forcing people to buy new acounts. But that is just speculation.Rendier 15:59, 25 May 2010 (UTC)

Well, it doesn't matter if you eat one baby or many, you are still a baby eater. Other baby eaters getting caught or not doesn't affect the resolution. IT's bad, all should be caught, but things just do go like that, because there is no such thing as a big brother to watch all. So, one slipping behind the radar its not an excuse, and one outside-game transaction is still an outside-game transaction. That gold he gave in exchange for the item was not his. You don't 'own' anything inside the game, you have the right to play, to use the account. That's what you paid for. There are other games in which in-game stuff is allowed to be traded for outside-game stuff, you can go to those if you want that. Getting a Halo 3 beta key is profit. And removing all the drops, one by one, removes the storm... well, the wind it's still there, but without the water it's not a storm. MithTalk 18:50, 25 May 2010 (UTC)

"and aside from 2 breaches orso, his record is clean" And aside from being broken, my car works just fine. elix Omni 22:00, 25 May 2010 (UTC)

He got banned once for calling someone a bad loser, and might have used a curseword or 2. (Not racial, just the usual) He got banned another time for the name "Six Is A Ninja". Leave the detective stuff to the detectives, the know what they are doing. My friend is still waiting for a reply, on both issues:

Why was "Six Is A Ninja" concidered an offensive name? (This happened a long time ago)

Why is a permanent ban over 20K justified, whereas people selling exploited green dual modded items for 100E isnt? Rendier 22:07, 25 May 2010 (UTC)

I'm not really interested in what his offenses were. My point is that you can't pull a "clean record" card if you don't actually have a clean record. elix Omni 22:11, 25 May 2010 (UTC)

(Reset indent) Your friend should contact Support and discuss this matter directly with them. -- Gaile 22:22, 25 May 2010 (UTC)

@ Felix Omni: As far as I'm concerned, and him, his record is clean. Just because the support made a mistake in banning him before doesn't mean it counts as a violation.

@ Gaile: Obviously he send a couple of emails to support. About 6 I think. They refuse to come back to this descission. I wouldn't be posting here, on his behalve, if he didn't already try through regular support. But he's having the same issue everyone has with support: Aside from them being close to the laziest support one could find online, some GM's are downright incompetent to do their jobs. The issue at hand here is that he got permanently banned for 20K Guild Wars gold. In my eyes, a permanent for such a thing is on the edge of the redicilous, again especially when only a couple of hours ago, hundreds of exploiters walked free after abusing an exploit, and even scamming up to 100 ectos from individual people. So scamming people out of a 100E through the result of an exploit is concidered OK, but buying a virtual item (albeit non-GW) for +-4 ectos is concidered the worst offence possible? I'm so tired of these double standards... Rendier 23:53, 25 May 2010 (UTC)

So he's filed six support tickets about this? First, that is five too many. Second, this really sounds like one of those "there has to be more to this story" situations. This could be a case not of TMI (Too Much Information) but NEI (Not Enough Information).

Let me tell you a story: A guy gets stopped by the police for a traffic violation; he gets sent to prison and his friends and family are up in arms. And it does seem a harsh penalty for a speeding ticket! But wait, there's NEI here. Sure, he's told people, "I was going 5 miles over the speed limit and now I'm serving 20 to life!" But you see, what he neglects to tell them is that he was stopped for speeding, but he also happened to have a dead body in the trunk. :)

The point is, your friend may have been blocked this time for the 20K transaction. Or he may have been blocked for something else entirely. No one knows the full breadth of his infraction and they surely don't see the history of the account. What has he amassed on his account? Does he have a long list of breaches? Does he have a semi-clear record, as you state? I hope that is the case, and that a mistake was made, and that he can rejoin the game. But there are cases where someone is blocked for a minor breach and a major one at the same time, resulting in termination. There are cases where someone is blocked for a small offense but has so many breaches he's out due to passing the bar for Repeated Violations. If he wants to pursue this, let him pursue it. He can post here and with some incident numbers I can check this out. But please understand that I will not respond through a third party but must work directly with the account holder. -- Gaile 00:09, 26 May 2010 (UTC)

Hi Gaile, im that friend and have the incident number here [Incident: 100508-003014]‏. Also i didnt send 6 tickets, i sent one and and had the conversation over 5 emails with the GM. Regards Nick 94.173.9.211 22:06, 26 May 2010 (UTC)

Oh phew! That's ever so much better than six tickets. I will take a look at this, but please give me a bit of time to do so. I need to talk to a support team member on another continent. -- Gaile 02:41, 28 May 2010 (UTC)

No problem, thanks Gaile! Nick 94.173.9.211 14:59, 28 May 2010 (UTC)

Globalisation is nice isnt it? ^^

Yes, globalisation is awesome! (Really, it's one of the coolest things about our game!) However, sometimes there are a few challenges. One is that we're just entered a three-day holiday weekend for both the US and the UK offices. I have started the discussion about this and have one reply, but I need to await the other before we can really figure this out. Please bear with us while we discuss. -- Gaile 03:39, 29 May 2010 (UTC)

Hi Gaile, Any progress on the account issue? Nick 94.173.9.211 14:52, 5 June 2010 (UTC)

Dual-Modding Exploit

People abusing the current dual modding exploit

Will they get banned? People are selling these items for 60+ ectos. They are knowingly abusing an exploit, and trying to make a profit out of it. I see people selling douzens of these items, easily making over 5Million in game gold abusing an exploit. What actions are going to get taken against these people knowing they are making profit from an exploit?

Rendier, i have no idea what your trying. but your instance of exploits was your fault. you knew you were doing it, so why dont you just stop being a complete fool and move on?--Neil2250 , Portal Jumper 14:54, 25 May 2010 (UTC)

He's technically correct. Selling exploited items has been a banable offense in the past. However, I sincerely doubt they plan on doing anything about it (just like botting). Karate Jesus 14:55, 25 May 2010 (UTC)

I'd guess those partaking in the activities are playing a game of hot potato, and whoever gets stuck with the weapon at the end is out "60+ ectos". Those items are probably going to be "fixed", and whoever paid last and is holding those items is going to get screwed. -- FreedomBound 14:58, 25 May 2010 (UTC)

And they are ding it knowing they will get fixed. They are selling gold that will turn into coal. MithTalk 15:13, 25 May 2010 (UTC)

Frankly, this time its Anets fault, they once had a test team for these things, but no. they had a cheaper viriant, the test krewe, while i respect thier cheaper choice (GW2 hurry up) i would say its Nobodys fault for Anets mistake. --Neil2250 , Portal Jumper 15:21, 25 May 2010 (UTC)

Technically, you could blame Anet for the armbrace duping that used to happen as well, but that doesn't change what it was. It's still "exploiting" an item for in-game profit, and as I said earlier, it's been a banable offense for a while. Karate Jesus 15:29, 25 May 2010 (UTC)

Are some people hereby implying that the people currently selling these items for 60+ ectos have no clue that greens can't be modded? As Karate Jesus says: Either you abuse an exploit or you don't. As my case, and many others, clearly indicated: simply by participating in an exploit regardless of your mindset, you're a hacker. The people who are currently making money off an in-game exploit deserve to be permnanently banned. They are abusing an exploit, they are doing it knowingly and unlike in my case, they are "scamming" people out of their money. Thats more than one violation. Rendier 16:18, 25 May 2010 (UTC)

Not to mention they are fluctuating Ectoplasm prices drastically. Needs to be fixed. Too bad theres no way to do a Force-Reverse trade involving Ectoplasm/Items for the Modded greens. it would save alot of unknowing players from losing out on their hard earned pixels. Lithril 16:37, 25 May 2010 (UTC)

Rendier, don't play the innocent. You knew that trading an exploited item in pre-searing was a bannable offense, especially considering that you had discussed it on a forum where Gaile specifically mentioned that. You were not unknowingly victimized. However, if Anet is to be held accountable for past decisions, this is an identical case. I hate to say it again, but it's technically selling exploited items. Anet will have to ban if they care to uphold their own precedent. Karate Jesus 16:55, 25 May 2010 (UTC)

I doubt he'll ever admit to doing anything wrong... Rendier is a master of denial and a poor lair. Anet has always had a no-tolerance policy. The issue is if you are unlucky enough to get caught. I'm sure the items will revert back to how they were or the players involved in trading them will get banned. When ecto prices were bugged and went to 100gold a piece, the entire game was rolled back several hours. When people duplicated extremely rare minis, many but not all were banned. I'm not sure what Anet will do, but I doubt they will just let these illegal items just roam around freely. --Lania Elderfire 18:03, 25 May 2010 (UTC)

"Rendier is....a poor lair"

I agree. I don't think the Legion of Doom would find him a very comfortable replacement. Karate Jesus 18:17, 25 May 2010 (UTC)

The fact that noone, so far, got banned makes my case the stronger. It clearly shows discrimination towards some people and favoritism towards others. Apperently exploiting bugs is allowed as long as you directly steal money from people. 3 People in my alliance paid 100 ectos for these items. Now that they're reverted, they've lost their money. They've been scammed aswell as been sold an exploited item. They should be banned, aswell as the person who sold them the exploited item in the first place. Double standards, a reliable way to ban innocent people, way to go Anet!

Welcome to the real world Rendier. Life ain't fair, equality is an illusion, get over it. --Lania Elderfire 18:36, 25 May 2010 (UTC)

Lania, shut the fuck up. you don't know anything about Rendier or anyone else on here. Stop attacking them. Calling them a poor liar (which you do not know is true or not) is calling yourself a liar, because you do not know what you are saying.

Gww:npa, keep the conversation civil. Tidas 22:50, 25 May 2010 (UTC)

Oh come on. If you're buying one of those items then you KNOW there's something wrong with them. Players who are new to the game just don't have any money (or the interest) to buy one of these weapons. If you lost your money it's your own fault. Really. People should quit QQ'ing and get over it. 81.71.183.54 23:07, 25 May 2010 (UTC)

Still doesn't give one the right to attack those that QQ. 206.214.217.246 23:53, 25 May 2010 (UTC)

Resetting: Can we please keep it on topic:

Do you guys not feel something wrong with hundreds of people abusing exploits to scam other people out of 100+ ectos? I mean, I know alot of you did it yourselves *cough hypocricy cough*, if it has come to a state where "abusing an exploit" -As I was accused of- is concidered worthy of a permanent ban, but "abusing an exploit and scamming hundreds of ectos as a result of this" isn't, than "Wow" is all I can say.Rendier 00:10, 26 May 2010 (UTC)

(Reset indent) This is my personal talk page. Feel free to discuss, but I truly believe this discussion should take place elsewhere. Or, if you believe this is a support issue, you're free to move it to that page. I'm just a little overwhelmed by all the support issues, game suggestions, complaints, design commentary, and so forth, appearing on this page. :) Thank you for understanding. -- Gaile 00:20, 26 May 2010 (UTC)

Account Locked

Hello Gaile; I would like to ask you to take a look at ticket # 100517-002937. My account is currently five days into a 2 week lock. It has been locked for an arbitrary reason that falls outside of the rules of conduct. I had initially hoped to rectify this problem solely through support, however the denial of service is closing in on the 1 week mark. Per the gm's invitation I opened a complaint with the Better Business Bureau this afternoon. I hope to have this issue resolved before they contact me for additional details. Thank you for your time. You can find my contact info on the support ticket if you require any additional information.

So you behaved badly in the game (after having accrued a lengthy list of offensive names) and expect the BBB to ride to the rescue? I read the game logs. You were marked for disruptive behavior, which definitely is covered in the Rules of Conduct. And your behavior decidedly was disruptive, not to mention abusive. I feel that you deserved the block that you received and will not spend any additional time on this matter. -- Gaile 00:57, 26 May 2010 (UTC)

First, as a customer service employee, do you really find it appropriate to assume a scolding, condescending tone when dealing with a legitimate complaint from a paying customer?

Gaile, I looked at the Rules of Conduct, Conduct Breaches and Outcomes, and the User Agreement, and I cannot find any specific or even vague reference to the action being discussed, i.e. a qualifier requiring any guild officer to justify kicking any guild members in any quantity or any actions that are even remotely related. I also cannot find a single mention of support's oft-used word disruptive, I even used the control F feature.

What I have found through the support process is that through the actions of the support staff, NCSoft is arbitrarily denying me a service for which it was paid. So no, I do not expect the BBB to "ride to the rescue". I expect them to strongly encourage NCSoft to provide the service for which it was paid. Since, the period of service denial will quite likely reach its completion with this issue remaining unresolved, I can in no way expect that the BBB's intervention will have any effect upon my support issue. However, I do hope it will help to encourage support staff to behave in a more professional, less arbitrary, non-judgmental, non-emotional manner when dealing with others. I also hope it will reinforce to support that they are indeed customer support. The lack of monthly fees does not mean that Guild Wars is a free product; the subscription is purchased upfront.

Third, that lengthy list of offensive names was constituted of one name upon which action was taken. After realizing how rigidly defined the basis was for determining inappropriate names, "I" requested a review of all my character names to avoid any further problems. Also, this issue would seem to be entirely unrelated to the current issue, I am not sure why you brought it up. Since you did, I felt obligated to clarify it. I have to say that I am very disappointed that despite my best efforts, the support staff has taken on an adversarial role, e.g. engaging the discussion in the manner of ad hominem abusive. Thank you for your time

First -- I am not a customer service representative. I am the global liaison between the developers of Guild Wars and our support teams. While I offer to help with an occasional review of certain customer support issues, as I have the time, I am not myself an agent nor a member of the support team.

Secondly -- You asked for assistance and I gave it in a frank response to the public discussion that you initiated. I will wrap up with the following comments:

No one is arbitrarily depriving you of service. The decision to block the account was made judiciously and with intent; the suspension was placed with forethought, clarity, and care. No User Agreement or Rules of Conduct can specifically list each and every single way in which a person can be abusive, but most are going to cite that abuse of other players is disallowed. You purposely and in bad faith joined a guild and then destroyed the build by kicking the members. According to the records, you did this with dishonorable and negative intention, and with provably hurtful results. And that is defined as "abusive behavior." We have excellent staff members who review reported issues and weigh the outcomes with care. Team members discuss many issues together; often several sets of eyes review the details before a final decision is made. Your appeal was reviewed, I can see that in the records. I have also seen enough to give me confidence that the action taken was appropriate, that your appeal was handled with care, and that the outcome was and remains a just one. -- Gaile 06:19, 26 May 2010 (UTC)

Gaile, I'm seeing a continued failure on the part of support to provide a direct reference or even a non-exact direct reference to the Rules of Conduct, Conduct Breaches and Outcomes, and the User Agreement. I once again utilized the control F feature and could not find the phrase "abusive behavior", and after yet another reading of these documents, I am still unable to find a section that applies to this issue. The continued failure of support staff to adhere to the EULA is what renders the judgment arbitrary and why I continue to assert that my account should never have been suspended and that the suspension should not be allowed to run its full course. As a vigilant consumer, I continue to feel compelled to demand reasonable satisfaction when I have paid for a product and/or service.

It would seem that anyone who expects to consider a EULA a legally binding document- as presumably NCSoft does- must oblige itself to operate within those confines. When a decision is made and then that decision is compared to the existing guidelines after the fact in an attempt to justify or rationalize the decision, that decision does indeed violate basic consumer protections if those comparisons fail to be adequate.

Allow me to reiterate a point I made throughout the course of my support ticket, the fact that you or any other member of support dislike a behavior, does not make that behavior a violation of EULA. A personal desire to "rewrite" the EULA to incorporate issues not addressed by the current one is no basis for failing to provide a pre-paid service. Referencing vague ideas about what may or may not be constituted in the EULAs of other games is absolutely impertinent to this issue.

PSemantics about job role aside, I do genuinely appreciate that you have taken a more professional tone for the continuance of our interaction. Thank you for your time.

Here you go (source: Guild Wars User Agreement):

• 6. CONTENT AND MEMBER CONDUCT
• (d) Member Conduct. You agree not to use the Service to:
• (iv) take any action or upload, post, e-mail or otherwise transmit any content as determined by NC Interactive at its sole discretion that is harmful, threatening, abusive, harassing, tortuous, defamatory, vulgar, obscene, libelous, invasive of another's privacy, hateful, racially, ethnically or otherwise objectionable; or contains any viruses, trojan horses, worms, time bombs, cancelbots or other computer programming routines that are intended to damage, detrimentally interfere with, surreptitiously intercept or expropriate any system, data or personal information;
• (ix) "stalk" or otherwise harass another member.

I can predict you will want to discuss the semantics of "what does 'harass' mean"", or that you will demand "proof" that someone was indeed abused by what you did. I will not go there. Because:

• You agree that NC Interactive may take whatever steps it deems necessary to abridge, or prevent behavior of any sort on the Service in its sole discretion, without notice to you.

That, clearly and irrefutably, is the final word on the subject. -- Gaile 20:54, 26 May 2010 (UTC)

Look at the code of conduct. Read this part of line 1 "To this end, you may not defraud, harass, threaten, or cause distress and/or unwanted attention to other players.". You caused distress to many players with your behavior. The code of conduct is a legally binding document as much as the EULA is in terms of playing the game. Also on the EULA it says "You agree that NC Interactive may take whatever steps it deems necessary to abridge, or prevent behavior of any sort on the Service in its sole discretion, without notice to you." That clause allows NCsoft to take any action they feel is beneficial to the community. --Lania Elderfire 20:54, 26 May 2010 (UTC)

(off topic but...) look at the time stamp [5] Posting within seconds from each other O_o!--Lania Elderfire 21:02, 26 May 2010 (UTC)

Gaile, after I thanked you for taking a professional tone, I am uncertain as to why you feel the need to adopt a condescending, sarcastic, hostile tone.

Regardless, I see no need to further discuss the validity of support's interpretation of the Rules of Conduct, Conduct Breaches and Outcomes, and the User Agreement in this fashion as it appears that you will continue to assert the validity of the original judgment without applying any consideration beyond that given by the original support person. So, I will leave the remainder of this discussion to the BBB and the support member with whom they are in contact.

Thank you for your time.

Account Blocked

Hi Gaile, about a week ago my account was viewed by someone who wasnt supposed to be viewing it, and my account was blocked so i cant go on it. support number 100510-003599. I sent the support team more info, but nothing has come back for three days. I'm becoming impatient, as they allowed me to reset the password, but even after I did the account still cant be accessed. Any help would be greatly appriciated.

This matter has been resolved and the account, which was proactively blocked to protect it, is now back in the control of the writer of this post. Who, unfortunately, did not update this thread to say so. :( -- Gaile 00:58, 26 May 2010 (UTC)

Injections?

Not sure if this is where it goes but, I heard from people that the GW.exe traces injections. Is this true? It would help so much against the botters in PvP if it really is true! -- 64.13.100.165 00:00, 22 May 2010 (UTC)

Support Mail Servers Down?

Re: [#100511-002114]

Hello Gaile; Are the Support@Guildwars Mail Servers down for over a week now? I had entered a ticket, gotten an individual response from a Support Rep and sent in the identifying info requested. I received a request to correct a typo and all my further emails to support (at the exact address you show on this page) have been delayed/bounced and now indicate they are undeliverable. This has gone on for 8 days. Now I'm worried - the last email to go thru had all the keys, info, etc. and I really don't want that floating around where it shouldn't! Please advise.

Thx. Rosedawn 23:58, 24 May 2010 (UTC)RoseDawn

Hi Rosedawn. I identified a problem with our support@guildwars.com email address late Friday night. But it was repaired on Friday. I think your ticket may be in a "dead mail loop." Please started a new ticket -- and you know I almost never say that ;) -- and reference the former ticket number in your new one. That new ticket should clear the way for this to be resolved, but do let me know if you continue to have difficulty! -- Gaile 00:40, 26 May 2010 (UTC)

Thanks Gaile. I have started a new ticket referencing the old, we'll see what happens.  :) I appreciate your time looking into it and I'll let you know when resolved so you can clear this. Thx again! --Rosedawn 16:49, 26 May 2010 (UTC)

Unhappy With Forced D/C for Updates

← moved to Feedback talk:Regina Buenaobra

Original comments can be found in the moved thread.

I'm sorry, but I do not perceive this as a support issue, and feel it would best be placed elsewhere. After all, Support does not make the new builds; they do not devise the means or the timing by which they are rolled out; they do not program whether a particular build involves a forced disconnect. I will tell you that at times a disconnect is essential. For instance, if we discover an exploit in the game, you can be sure we're not going to leave someone in the game to continue to use that exploit on an indefinite basis. To do so would risk potential harm of the game economy and might actually put the player's account at risk. I don't know if any recent updates involved forced disconnects. If there was one, there may have been a good reason for one. Again, if you wish to discuss this further, please start a discussion on the appropriate page. -- Gaile 00:37, 26 May 2010 (UTC)

I am merely stating the obvious, now I have no problems with you gaile. you likely seem to be giving me attitude without reason or knowing whom you are talking to. as busy as you are I can understand being a little tired or frustrated but kindly don't take it out on me I was trying to deal with an issue. previously though I cannot remember the date because it was a while ago, I had an issue with wrongful termination of my account due to faulty automated system for CC fraud. you investigated and saw that I was right and made good then and I appreciate it. however I was merely stating the obvious and think they aught to setup better warnings if there MUST be a forced d/c for reasons unbeknown-st to a player. using the current "a new build of guild wars is availible" prompt is ok for those times when the build is not going to force a d/c as people are used to just ignoring this and continuing their runs when they are death-lvling in pre because it is so common. but I merely suggest rather politely in the interests of player/company relations which you claimed you used to stand for that they possibly add a different prompt for those times when you WILL be d/c so you have ample time to finish up and exit so you don't lose 10-20 hours of your life wasted when it is our time,effort,life and money not yours being spent on this game. "A new build of Guild Wars is availible;This is a required update and you will be d/c within 5 min or less so please find a outpost and finish up."

not perfect but shows how easy it would be to warn a player(s) who spent hours setting up and running a death-lvling session that they need to finish now or risk losing all the time invested in grinding that title for that session.

also, you like alot of "employees" make the mistake of assuming that players know where to place issues regarding the game be they support, suggestions,or other reports or issues. we do not as we don't work for guildwars and it's companies and affiliates you guys do. if you feel this is in the wrong place just feel free to move it and leave a link to where it was moved along with a polite explanation as to why it was moved. For we recieve e-mails when changes are made to our posts and we can direct link here to see it's been moved and your reasons why and possibly actually learn instead of being berated for things we don't know and or are beyond our control :)

In closing I will say Gaile that though the job might seem annoying or tedious at times that your help is appreciated even if some do not take the time to thank you and say so. and that you should always view things when dealing with customers as if you were in their situation and did not have half the knowledge you have due to being an employee and act/react accordingly as that is working for your consumers not against them... old saying applies here "kiss" "Keep it simple stupid" I grew up using that and empathy to help others and to this day I continue to strive for greatness just not at the cost of my clientele and/or morals :)

"Being brilliant is no great feat if you respect nothing." Johann Wolfgang von Goethe LilithChan 04:45, 26 May 2010 (UTC)

I am answering you as honestly as I can. This is not a support issue. It has nothing to do with the functions of the Support Team or of the Support Liaison. Please do feel free to share your opinions and thoughts, but for the most positive outcome, please place your comments on the appropriate page. As to where that is, or what it is called, I, too, do not know the proper place, but I can tell you that this little corner of the wiki isn't it.

And if that is "attitude," I will not apologize, for I am offering you -- as I try to offer everyone -- the most helpful advice and the greatest level of honesty. On that you can rely -- anything else you read into my comments is entirely in your perception. -- Gaile 05:22, 26 May 2010 (UTC)

LilithChan, this is something that should go to the Live Team (via Community), so the proper place for it would be either Regina's page, or posted as a suggestion in our Feedback space. -- Wyn talk 05:35, 26 May 2010 (UTC)

Thank you, Wyn. I honestly did not know what to suggest about placement, as there seemed many options. I only knew the topic was rather lost here and would not get the attention I'm sure LilithChan would like it to receive. Surely placement on one of the pages you suggest is a good option. Thank you again. -- Gaile 05:39, 26 May 2010 (UTC)

Wyn in case you did not see the post on your talk page and are possibly still watching this page, can you please read it and do me the favor because I have no means for which to do so as I only know how to edit existing topics and write new ones. moving things from one thread to another is beyond me, thank you.. LilithChan 07:09, 26 May 2010 (UTC)

The posts that followed the original commentary by LilithChan are completely off-topic and I believe that they detract from the intention of the original poster, who wants to make a specific point about builds and disconnects. I left LilithChan's original post on Regina's page, but moved the other comments here, in case they needed further discussion. -- Gaile 07:30, 26 May 2010 (UTC)

No further discussion is needed on your page hun(if you feel so inclined you can remove this as it has nothing to do with my OP and was merely a thank you of sorts for your help now and in the past. you like always have helped the best you can, and thanks to you and to wyn for dealing with moving the thread to wherever it needed to go because such is beyond my ability to do as yet and I had no idea where it needed to go I only placed it here because I had good history with you and trusted you would know what to do...lol :)

unlike others I have always been satisfied with Consumer service so far in guild wars, no other game I know when they make a mistake with billing reacted like you have as most games CS just takes your money and after that basically does nothing to fix their mistakes if they happen to make them, they just use excuses to try and blame the players for things that are not their fault nor within their control. but you guys at guild wars/ANET basically both apologized, and did what I found shocked me in a good way(you know what you/anet did Gaile even if you possibly don't remember it or me...lol)

thank again to both of you,and my apologies for choosing you when I did not know where else to put that, and have a good day and try and have fun and/or laugh at least once. because without humor&love even in the most trying of times life is really not worth living...lol :) LilithChan 15:49, 26 May 2010 (UTC)

Thanks, LilithChan. That's a very sweet thing to say, and I appreciate it. :) -- Gaile 17:08, 26 May 2010 (UTC)

Breach Records

Wouldn't it be fun to have a personal record (account based) that shows all the breaches one has ever committed? To see if you're in hot water etc. --Derv Who Likes To 18:37, 27 May 2010 (UTC)

So long as it was only privately visible, and not turned into some kind of title others could see, otherwise it would certainly become abused like Chavs abuse ASBOS in the UK. Tylenol Jones 12:20, 28 May 2010 (UTC)

Man, if you have so many marks on your account you've forgotten them or have lost count, you may be beyond help. ;) -- Gaile 03:35, 29 May 2010 (UTC)

Payment Fraud Code 045

Hello Gaile! I know, my problem is look like orthers before. Sunday I did bought Dwayna's Regalia in game store and monday they did ban may acc with code 45. I did contact with suport service and send how many information I can, but they need my serial numbers of all games now, but I didnt save this numbers, that was a long time ago, when I did bought all these games. Only place where all numbers are display are NCsoft acc wich is baned as well. I did play GW for almost five years, spend lot of money for baying all parts of game, bonus packs, skill packs and now I got a ban for no reason. And worst, when they ban my NCsoft acc they ban even may second GW acont and Lineage 2 as well. Please help me to get back my game Gaile. There is my suport service ticket number 100525-002096 And sorry about my bad english. Thank You Imants

Oh, I see this is another account that was given a "protective block" to prevent damage by an account thief. That's really a good thing, but we apologize that you got the message about "account fraud." I'm sorry the account was stolen and very glad our team was able to get it back to you! -- Gaile 02:33, 28 May 2010 (UTC)

Support Response Time

Support Response Time and Working Hours

hello Gaile

im not the first to post about this, so ill get right to my point. what is going on with my support ticket? (ticket: 100522-002289) i forgot my password and my security questions. this question is more about wanting to know what is going on than actualy asking for help in the issue itself. last time i contacted support (about 2 years ago) they were really quick. so now im checking my e-mail at least 4 times a day, because i expect an awnser real soon (yes, im very spoiled), i submitted the ticket about 4 days ago. I did get an automated e-mail and I did get an e-mail stating the ticket has been 'escalated', but I am suprised about the amount of time it has taken to respond given the fact I send most of the required information (e.g. registration code for game, name, adress, date of birth, account name, character name) and even some information they required two years ago but seem to have been removed (image of game gard with registration serial showing). on the first manual response i did send a response (in the indicated field) explaining why some information was missing, could that have slown down the process? furthermore i would like to know if the support team works on US office times only or if its an international group (i live in holland, time diffrence of 8 hours). i know you must be awfully busy, but i realy want to be able to play before my brother overtakes me :)

thanks in advance. Sarkai 12:52, 26 May 2010 (UTC)

(p.s. a accidentaly created another page: talk:Gaile Gray/Support Issues/support response time, sry about that i was trying to find out how to post here, i created this wiki account for the purpose :)

UPDATE: it took a bit longer because the support team could not see the image either because the format was not right or they were to big.

disregard this post as a whole, the support team still rocks im just being a bit ignorant on my behalf, thanks anyways.

TIP: be sure you send pictures in .JPG format and under 2MB in size.

I'm very glad that it all worked out fine for you, Sarkai. :) -- Gaile 02:31, 28 May 2010 (UTC)

Multi-launcher Considered a Hack?

Seeing as how a multi-launcher changes how the game functions, is this now considered illegal? "We have no tolerance for using bots or hacks". Is a multi-launcher a hack? Considering the recent change one would imagine Arenanet would have a concrete rule about the multi-launchers. ~~000.00.00.00~~ 21:46, 26 May 2010 (UTC)

The multi launchers generally do not change gw files, they make adjustments to your registry. Gaile has always indicated that using them to transfer items between accounts, or other benign uses of them will not be pursued as "illegal" what they are looking for is things that provide game altering benefits. All this panic is silly. -- Wyn talk 23:39, 26 May 2010 (UTC)

So I can load up a second account and use it for an emergency non-wipe resser? Awesome! `~~000.00.00.00~~ 21:22, 27 May 2010 (UTC)

Hello, Gaile.

Hello, Gaile. Is there any way we could possibly chat in-game or via email or even a messenger? You know who I am, but currently I am not at liberty to discuss that.

But, one of the many questions that I have is this: Is KSMod considered a bannable offense now? Ever since the .dll extension was turned off, the player base was forced to inject this into their client (whereas all they had to do before was slap a file into their Guild Wars folder and that was it.) If you are unaware what KSMod is (which I doubt), it is a program that allows you to see armor/textures in their beautiful, most highest resolution in towns (without the mod you are forced to see others in medium resolution... Which for a lack of a better word is 'disgusting'.)

This issue could be solved extremely easily with the simple imput of a code by the live team to add a "very high" option for "Texture Quality", but that is another story.

"Let me make this clear: We have no tolerance for using bots or hacks. It’s cheating, it harms other players, and there’s no excuse for it." This an a section from the article on the blog just released. While I agree 100%, I do not see KSMod as a reason to ban anyone. It does not "harm others" albeit it being a hack/injection.

So... My question is: what is the official/unofficial word now on injecting KSMod? --24.126.139.64 22:06, 26 May 2010 (UTC)

As I understand it, KSMod does not affect gameplay, that is, it does not give players an advantage in gameplay. If that is true, then I cannot see how its use would result in a ban. However, sometimes code is added to a formerly-benign program that takes that program from harmless to harmful. That's why we don't "sign off" on or approve third-party problems: TextMod, KSMod, or any other. We have no way of knowing whether the particular version you intend to use is OK or whether it has harmful additives, like a Trojan or cheat or exploit components.

I will check to see if I can learn more about this question. -- Gaile 00:41, 27 May 2010 (UTC)

As per "http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Texmod#ArenaNet", Arenanet states that benign, non-gameplay-affecting modding is not frowned upon. As long as one stays clear of support when things go Oops. Personally I didn't think injections that did not affect gameplay would get me a ban. I guess in retrospect it appears I was wrong, as it appears many others were. Too bad Anet could not clarify/publicly alter it's stance on this type of modding *before* banning god knows how many accounts that never actually touched a bot. 130.89.171.69 01:31, 27 May 2010 (UTC)

Regina and Emily have both stated that KSMod, Texmod, and MultiLaunch are safe to use, at your own risk.-- Pyron Sy 01:43, 27 May 2010 (UTC)

What they said, very specifically, is that it's ok to use those programs in their original form, that is, using the legitimate, unadulterated versions of the program. Anything can be altered and turned from "safe" to "unsafe." The principal message here is "Use at your own risk." -- Gaile 02:30, 28 May 2010 (UTC)

While I don't mean to cause drama or any kind of conflict, nor to offend, I've got to say there's a fairly large difference between "we won't offer you any support when you use these third party programs" ("http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Texmod#ArenaNet") and "we will irrevocably ban your account (without any notice, warning, or room for appeal) for doing something you believe to be harmless." Either go 0-tolerance from the get go, or make it very clear at some point that NOTHING is okay to use. As it is it appears a lot of people who didn't think they were harming the system got a ban for using dll injections that didn't directly affect the game. (KSmod, PacketFaker, etc.) 130.89.173.125 09:46, 28 May 2010 (UTC)

What's unclear? "If you use a program that gives you a gameplay advantage, your account may be terminated." It's up to the user to figure out if a program gives an in-game advantage. We cannot determine someone's intentions, but only their actions. -- Gaile 20:04, 29 May 2010 (UTC)

Banned(100527-000059)

Hey, Gaile. Logged on today to find a message saying that I've been banned for using 'third-party programs'. The only third-party programs I've used were texmod and KSMod, which I thought were both allowed. I'm assuming that they are now not allowed, and it's kind of a punch to the gut when I've been playing for over 4 years and used them, only to find out that they got my account banned, now.

Just wondering if there's anything you could do to help me with this? Miclee 23:28, 26 May 2010 (UTC)

I'm not sure any of the bans today were for anything other than obvious botting behavior, i.e. things that control your char, like inting and/or farming pve. -- Tha Reckoning 23:29, 26 May 2010 (UTC)

Only thing I've farmed lately was cupcakes during the birthday event, but I definitely did not use a bot for it. Miclee 23:38, 26 May 2010 (UTC)

Then they'll have you unbanned before too long anyway, no need to flood Gaile with them. -- Tha Reckoning 23:39, 26 May 2010 (UTC)

That is supposing you get a GM that actually knows how things work. No offense to their efforts and goodwill, which I'm sure will be excellent, but the two I've had reply to my own ticket, seemed to not even read the question asked. they simply fall back on routine answers and avoid giving any kind of straight-forward reply. I hope NCsoft can get it's support up to scratch one day, because all my previous experiences have been along the lines of talking to some uninterested teenager working a summer job without really knowing what he's supposed to be doing to earn his pay. I don't mean this as any kind of insult or affront, so please don't take it to be malicious, but it would be nice to feel like you're talking to a sentient being. No doubt this is why so many turn to Gaile, leading to her getting swamped. I'm sure numerous people who've seen the support staff at work first hand won't find themselves disagreeing. 130.89.171.69 01:21, 27 May 2010 (UTC)

Most of them do quite well, don't be mean.

Though, this time, they aren't. They told me I was banned for using a third-party program, which was either texmod or KSMod, but it still doesn't warrant saying that they don't know how things work. It's their job and they know what they're doing. You just have to be patient. Miclee 20:16, 27 May 2010 (UTC)

The programs you mention would not have resulted in your getting banned. You have to wonder if the versions you used were unadulterated, or whether they were modified, tweaked, or turned from benign to bad. One of the reasons we tell players that we cannot condone or support the use of third-party programs is because alterations happen, which can have very bad consequences. -- Gaile 02:19, 28 May 2010 (UTC)

People are able to alter them? That makes me even more uneasy, now knowing that they could've even taken my account. So, there's nothing that can be done? Miclee 18:39, 28 May 2010 (UTC)

People alter seemingly legitimate programs all the time for malicious reasons... heck there are tons of fake antivirus programs out there that pretend to scan your computer but in reality it's scanning for sensitive information and sending it off to china (They even sound legitimate with names like "windows antivirus 2010"). These programs are altered specifically to steal account information, spread viruses, hijack your computer as part of a botnet, and etc. That's why on Guide to modifying in-game graphics, MD5 and SHA1 checksums are published. You can check your downloaded versions to see if it matches the published MD5 and SHA1 hash using programs like this [6]. If it doesn't match, then it's been hacked. Becareful though, MD5 hash values can be spoofed if the hacker is dedicated enough so a complete match doesn't mean your 100% safe, more like 95% safe. If both MD5 and SHA1 match you're 99.999% safe though. --Lania Elderfire 03:26, 29 May 2010 (UTC)

Also you can check single files with great online tools like this [7] that scans a file with 19 21 different virus/malware scanners and reports MD5 and SHA1 values. --Lania Elderfire 03:30, 29 May 2010 (UTC)

(Edit conflict) You had to have used a .dll injector for KSMod. I think you probably got caught in the crossfire from the bot bans. The bots need the use of a .dll injector in order to work. I'm not an expert on the matter, nor am I intimately aware of the process used to find the bots, but I would take a guess that they scanned for injected .dlls to find the bots, and you were just unfortunate enough to get caught along with the bots. --Riddle 03:38, 29 May 2010 (UTC)

Banned( 100527-000071)

→ moved from Feedback_talk:Gaile_Gray

Hello, Gaile My account got banned apparently because of use of some third party software. I have been playing for 5 years and have never used any third-party soft and really would like to get it back. I am farming, yes, but never with any third-party soft, and it seem got into your net by mistake. I am sure it will be cleared soon, but still would like you check it out, please. If you need any specific information about my account I will send it to you at request. Regards. Peter

Gaile, I think your page is going to be full of these soon. Nice job on proving me wrong about the botting, though. You guys might have done a better job of just banning them, instead of wasting time on the dhuum bit, but it was cool to watch nonetheless. -- Tha Reckoning 22:38, 26 May 2010 (UTC)

@ Peter -- I'm sorry that your account was terminated. But as you will have read, we terminated more than 3,700 account today and I don't have the bandwidth to research individual appeals. We know the bans were placed appropriately and that each account that was banned in this sweep was indeed involved in the use of a third-party program. Having said that, you are welcome to submit an appeal to support. Sorry that I cannot assist directly but I'm sure you understand there's just 1 of me and there are a lot of accounts involved. -- Gaile 23:01, 26 May 2010 (UTC)

@Tha Reckoning -- thank you for your positive comments. I want to assure you that the Dhuum effect wasn't terribly time-consuming, and that implementing the effect did not delay the action we took on the accounts in question. We share your priorities about what is most important in situations like this. -- Gaile 23:02, 26 May 2010 (UTC)

Cool beans. -- Tha Reckoning 23:06, 26 May 2010 (UTC)

As a follow up question, i know me and a lot of people in my alliance are wondering about the status of Texmod. Will this be a bannable third party program? It does not affect any in game play, but i dont want to be in the next wave of bans anyways. I just want to make sure before i use it again. Thanks in advance. Sonic Wednesday 23:14, 26 May 2010 (UTC)

They said in their appearance today that text mod was one of the programs they had given the ok to, but as always they cannot support it and use of such programs are at the account owners own risk as future updates to such programs may render them 'unpure' (I'm practically qouteing). Tidas 00:08, 27 May 2010 (UTC)

@ Gaile -- I appreciate your response here, you always were and will be one of the few people on the support team who care most :-) I did get an answer from support, it was generic and it seem that person have not even read the question. I understand that you are probably swept by huge wave of people who crying for help, but still some hope remains, if you can find a few minutes and take a look at case number 100527-000071 I would much appreciate. Thank you. Peter.

Peter -- I have looked at the ticket. I don't see that there is anything I can do to assist. The means of detecting bot use is very reliable and I cannot overrule those findings. If there is any additional information you want the team to consider, please pass it along to them in the ticket. -- Gaile 02:08, 28 May 2010 (UTC)

Banned Account

Hi Gaile, as peter i found a sign saying my account was terminated, but i never used those third programs or bots as you said. my account had suffer from theft and somebody stole my 100k and my ectos. i didnt play for 2 days and yesterday when i logg on my account and saw that people had stole my money and ectos i start to panic and changed password and after that a huge dhumm comes in and kill me. i never used bots or other programs and always reported bad people for like spamming or scamming. Can you do something? i understand that you cant see just 1 person but i got scammed and then i got permanent disband for things i didnt make, please i tryed to contact support but they dont help me please i am desperated Durzal 17:54, 27 May 2010 (UTC)

As per the notice at the top of this page, you must file a ticket with support. If after 3 business days, your issue has not been resolved, you can post your ticket here, and Gaile will look into it. With the mass banning yesterday, I would guess that support is a bit backed up atm, so it may take longer than 3 business days to resolve the issue. When you file your support ticket, you will want to reference Botting, Match Manipulation, or Game Exploit so that it can be referred to the appropriate team members for review (per James Phinney's blog). -- Wyn talk 01:35, 28 May 2010 (UTC)

Give this a bit of time to go through the system. Share the information that you gave me with the team -- I am sure they will be happy to discuss the matter with you. -- Gaile 02:01, 28 May 2010 (UTC)

Already shared like you said...now its just wait. hope they can help me 89.152.171.237 14:19, 28 May 2010 (UTC)

After i send all my information i waited some days and one GM tranfered my question to the account support team where they gave me one kind of automatic question, as if they didnt read my problem. Please help me, can those third programs or bots be related or been used by the people that hacked my account?. Can you do something? my ticket number is 100528-001776 . i hope you can help me.Durzal 18:27, 31 May 2010 (UTC)

Please can you check the ticket above it have passed two weeksDurzal 21:21, 11 June 2010 (UTC)

.dll Injections

Is injecting a .dll, not used for botting, a bannable offence?

My question ^, I believe I was banned because I injected a .dll into Guild Wars and this is the justification [not justification, but how anet 'caught' all] of the 3700 bots.

It was used for absolutely NO botting purposes, and I believe this is why I was grouped with the 'botters.' The .dll was used for something called "packet faker," which was JUST LIKE texmod, client side ONLY. With this, it was possible to see your character use any of the hero rank emotes, and any of the zaishen rank emotes, again, ONLY CLIENT SIDE. Nobody else saw them. It gave me no advantage to the game over other players at all, it only made my screen shot folder larger.. -- is for Rift, etc. 18:28, 27 May 2010 (UTC)

Also, KSMod (forces high-def armor textures on everyone) seems to be in the same boat... -- is for Rift, etc. 20:47, 27 May 2010 (UTC)

Similarly, I used a skill log script a few times when writing match reports. Client side, no effect on the game, but used an dll injection. Account banned. 130.89.172.242 21:23, 27 May 2010 (UTC)

I too am on the same boat as Rift. I used 'PaketFaker' and got banned for it. It is just like TexMod! Wicca 06:54, 28 May 2010 (UTC)

You are at least the second person who's mentioned PaketFaker and said you felt its use was acceptable because "it's just like TexMod." I don't know that. The support team doesn't know that. And unless you're a programmer who can read and analyze source code, you probably don't know that either. TexMod (in its original, unaltered form) is allowed because it gives no gameplay advantage. I can speculate that the other program is not totally benign, and that something in it gives advantage to the user. I do not know that, though, I truly am just speculating. If the use of PaketFaker caused your account to be blocked, then that's just another reason why we make it clear we do not give a thumbs up to third-party programs. Only a few third-party programs have been shown to pose no negative risks to the user, and even those must remain in their original form to be risk free. No one knows how many times a benign program is altered to be bad. In the end verification of a program's integrity rests with the user. -- Gaile 05:34, 29 May 2010 (UTC)

How do you guys know that TexMod gives no gameplay advantage? Did Anet check it? If so, then I suggest that they check paketfaker before they make any conclusions on it. Wicca 15:42, 29 May 2010 (UTC)

Texmod in the unaltered form doesn't give gameplay advantage, other than for cartographer title. Packetfaker on the other hand, afaik, it can be used for cheating in the unaltered form. It seems to depend on what .dll's you inject, a benign one or something that give you a decisive advantage. --Lania Elderfire 15:57, 29 May 2010 (UTC)

How can sending arbitrary binary data to your client be used for cheating? You are sending it to your client (aka tricking it into displaying something that isn't real), not sending it to the SERVER, and that is the only thing that counts.

Honestly that's like saying TexMod provides you an unfair advantage because you can exchange the texture of wood with a texture of ectoplasm in your client.--83.196.192.143 19:53, 29 May 2010 (UTC)

@Wicca -- I am sorry if I said something that lead you to believe ArenaNet had reached a conclusion about the program in question. ArenaNet has not investigated that program and they will not do so. ArenaNet has addressed the issue of third-party programs in a general sense by stating that action will not be taken against the users of third-party programs that do not alter gameplay in such a way as to give the user an in-game advantage. So my personal comments are: programs can contain cheating elements by design. Programs can be altered to add cheating elements at any time. Someone can think "This program only does XYZ" and not know it has cheating elements. And even if those particular elements are not used -- say someone just wants to see sparkly effects and doesn't enable the available bot utility -- the fact is, the program can alter gameplay and it is tied to the player's account; that puts the account at risk of a ban.

Note: I am not drawing any conclusions about any particular program; I am just making a general observation. I noted that two people mentioned a program with which I'm unfamiliar, and I speculated (and called it speculation) that it's possible such a program has bot elements. According to Lania, the speculation may be true. But again, my comments here do not reflect an official stance from ArenaNet about this program. I hope that clarifies my comments, and I apologize for any confusion. -- Gaile 20:01, 29 May 2010 (UTC)

Also another observation I made... Texmod and KSmod is readily available all over the place (including in GWW) and the validated MD5 and SHA1 hash values are also available. It's easy to make sure that your copy of texmod or KSmod isn't hacked. Paketfaker on the other hand, making a simple google search has not yielded me any sites where I can download it. The fact that it "probably" only exist in forum space with membership login (totally speculating btw but would explain the low hit counts with the searches) means the way it was developed, breaks the rules since they want to keep it hidden. Downloading from forums, you are also at a higher risk for downloading hacked mods that are normally benign, but modified in a way that allows cheating, or steal your account. --Lania Elderfire 00:28, 30 May 2010 (UTC)

All interesting observations, and I think your conclusions make quite a bit of sense. Thanks for sharing them. -- Gaile 00:56, 30 May 2010 (UTC)

Actually the program is called "PaketFakor", obviously if you search for the wrong name you are not going to find it. It is downloadable in a public forum right here: http://www.gamerevision.com/index.php?topic=561.0

@Gaile please don't dismiss valuable and educated opinions about some third party programs just because a wiki regular is "guessing" about them.--83.196.192.143 08:16, 30 May 2010 (UTC)

gamerevision.com...that should say enough about that program. 24.162.138.215 16:14, 30 May 2010 (UTC)

How does the site it was posted on have anything to do with the fact that it provides no gameplay advantage whatsoever?--D3d 16:45, 30 May 2010 (UTC)

Because the site advertises itself as a botting and exploit site.-- Pyron Sy 16:54, 30 May 2010 (UTC)

^ 24.162.138.215 16:59, 30 May 2010 (UTC)

Bots | Exploits | Tools & More. You forgot the last part :) JustSaying 17:09, 30 May 2010 (UTC)

Because the "Tools & More" minimizes the Bots & Exploits, amirite? 24.162.138.215 17:26, 30 May 2010 (UTC)

(Reset indent) So if I upload TexMod on their site we can launch a mass ban against everyone who uses TexMod? Oh right, because TexMod would provide a gameplay advantage if it was downloaded from a mirror site that also hosts bots.--D3d 17:29, 30 May 2010 (UTC)

That's besides the point. TexMod, multilauch, and several other mods were given the green light as long as it's in the unaltered form. Paketfakor is not in that "green light" list. You still have to log in to download it, on a site that specifically hosts bots and hacks, making it likely that it you're downloading versions of programs that aren't safe or have additional "features". Also considering the relative popularity of this mod and with gaile only hearing about it twice, I doubt it's the vanilla version of the mod that's getting people banned. --Lania Elderfire 18:15, 30 May 2010 (UTC)

Given that this mod is relatively new, it is not a surprise that it has *not yet* been given the green light. However as it does not provide any advantages to the user, it certainly doesn't fall into the bannable category with ArenaNet's current stance on third party mods. I would also like to point out the fact that this mod is closed source, which means that no one can just modify it and add their own "botting" features. (and I'll reiterate that I have never used this mod, I'm just trying to help shed some light on this issue)--D3d 20:50, 30 May 2010 (UTC)

What I would like to know is how people would be able to get banned for using it if it is solely client-side? If nothing is sent to the server, how would the people at Anet know you're using it, from the information provided by said server? The argument that it only affects your personal client seems odd, in this context. Twam Valandil 94.209.65.245 21:08, 30 May 2010 (UTC)

As far as I know they scan the client for injections and send the information to ArenaNet if they find anything.--D3d 21:11, 30 May 2010 (UTC)

From Guru:"With the PacketFaker script as an example, it sends reverse packets to the client side only which trick your client into thinking you are receiving packets from the server side." The person who created PaketFaker stated that it only has Client-side effects and later confirmed it to me via pm. I can supply a screenshot if you really want one. Wicca 04:34, 31 May 2010 (UTC)

Guild Leader Banned

Hey Gaile, my guild leader was banned in the recent bot account reapings. What happens to our guild without a leader or a way to designate a new one? 122.111.6.21 18:40, 27 May 2010 (UTC)

Wait a month, the longest lived officer will be auto-designated. --Neil2250 , Portal Jumper 18:41, 27 May 2010 (UTC)

I don't think the guild will last that long without a guild leader. 122.111.6.21 18:59, 27 May 2010 (UTC)

It's not a very close knit guild, then. -- Tha Reckoning 19:01, 27 May 2010 (UTC)

The absent leader period is actually 2 months. -- WarBlade 23:54, 27 May 2010 (UTC)

WarBlade is correct -- after 60 days the most senior officer will be given the leader role. There is no way to expedite the process, sorry. -- Gaile 01:50, 28 May 2010 (UTC)

Gaile, if that is the case, can you elaborate what happened with leadership of Young Money Merger [YM]? On 2/4/10, their guild leader was permanently banned for RMT. However, the next day, after contacting support, guild leadership was transferred to one of his second accounts. Is this an exception that is made for gold trim guilds? --Lemming 07:17, 28 May 2010 (UTC)

Gaile didn't make a statement on this topic... -- Tha Reckoning 07:20, 28 May 2010 (UTC)

So if we get a gold trim we can get special treatment as well? 122.111.6.21 07:27, 28 May 2010 (UTC)

I'm sorry, I can't answer that question, Lemming. I'm about as far away from gold trim as I am from having my guild hall smell of rich mahogany. :) If you would like an official statement about this, please ask a member of the community team. They're much more aware of what takes place in situations like this than I am. I am sorry that I don't have the info to provide. -- Gaile 05:28, 29 May 2010 (UTC)

Payment Fraud Ban (Code 45)

Hi Gaile.

Last week I was informed by ncsoft about my GW account password change from other IP different than mine (probably through the known issue). A bit scared, changed it again to a new password and reentered GW to check for my items that were intact. Following support recommendation, I contacted them at support@ncsoft.com to notice the action taken. A GW GM passed me to another seccion within support (GW Account Support).

I replied with answers to any questions about the account, providing keys (5), data about characters (first and main char data), last 4 digits of my credit card (used many times in ingame-shop), a two pictures (sadly, low res as i only got my m. phone at that moment) to the 5 boxes (All + EoTN + EoTN Preorder) but not name/address/birth data (which now I see that I should have), and noting that i was pleased to answer whatever info / request was needed to prove my ownership. Well, if I do a deep search in my external drivers, I may even found pictures of my chars in a conga line with yours if needed.

I got any answer from the GM nor support in reply, and about 3 days later (probably was a lapse Friday-Monday), I could not login and had a 045 code error by "Payment fraud". (Here's the shot of it 045 Image(spanish client))

Following the common procedure, i went to support and created a ticket (reference number 100524-001310) asking for the reasons of the ban, plus quoting the message i sent to the GM in case that it was "lost in the net" (or in any other place).

3 working days and little more have passed,as you recommend, and i still got no answer from support nor the ticket itself. So i'm here to, if not being able to recover my account, at least know the reason(s) of the ban.

Thanks in advance.

I looked at the ticket. It seems you've created a second ticket, and that may be cause of the confusion. Please update this ticket -- 100517-001163 -- and tell them the information that they request. Good luck. -- Gaile 01:49, 28 May 2010 (UTC)

Thanks for the tip Gaile, i suppose that one was autocreated when I reported the thing by mail at first. I tried to add the data but i am unable to use the "My Stuff" support link (like ticket creation output says) as it tells me that my ncsoft account has been disabled (indeed, login says the same). So am I doing it wrong? There's another way to update the first ticket? :S. Thanks.

That's strange. Hmmm. I suggest you send an email to support@guildwars.com and include any an all 12-digit incident numbers in the email. The team can merge and get down to a single (functional) ticket. If you're in the US, you may consider phoning them. Check out the Contact Support page for more info. And please keep me informed how this works out. -- Gaile 05:25, 29 May 2010 (UTC)

Hi again Gaile. I did what you said, sending an email with subject "Support tickets 100517-001163 & 100524-001310" (including them in the e-mail body too) on friday. Noting what you said about monday being non-working day on US/UK, i waited for another 3 working days and have received any answer from ncsoft nor gw support apart an automatic answer telling me to resend it again between the two specific lines (done too on friday). Well to be honest, i did receive a mail from ncsoft,but telling me if i want to make a survey about how support "handled the support request listed below". Which i dont know if makes me cry or laugh or other thing. Unfortunately i'm from outside the US, so the phone call would be more expensive than other account :P

Hi Gaile. Not to be each day saying the same, but after the last message i put here (May, i guess) i have not received any email confirming my ban, denying it or whatever... I wonder if it was some kinda email problem at support(i think that i read about it) or i was kinda put apart a bit and forgotten... I'm missing the WiK event a bit ;).

Banned Account (100527-001986)

Hi gaile i have sent you a e-mail about this got no reply from support so far. My name is william rogers i own a GW account that has been banned you have all the info key wise.

I had a e-mail notifying me of a password change and as soon as i got that i changed the password to a new one as it seem'd someone hacked in to the account. Thinking all was safe i then went on to GW to find that my account was banned for payment fraud.

I have never ever commited any fraud to be even have this error is a insult to me. I have got all my addons etc legit way.

I had gifts from my friend whom used his CC card and them was like a long time ago the last item bought was the Costume which was Limited edition if i remember right and haven't bought anything since.

I was so upset about the fact my account has been banned i'm not happy was getting so excited about buying GW2 upon it release but after this now i'm not. My Tickets are as follows

100527-001986 and 100527-002000.

If you could please contact me ASAP on the e-mail address you got from me i'd be gratefull i just want my legit account back. I have seen a few websites saying the Arena.net and NCSoft databases was compromised and if this is the case then its need to be sorted.

If i don't get a reply soon i'll be considering talking to a Legal person to see what i can do legally as the money i have used to buy stuff came from legit sources i.e my paypal account and my friends card account.

First of all, filing multiple tickets simply slows the process. Legal action is really not going to get you anywhere, and threats of it are not going to magically get your account back. Your best option is to be patient while the support team works through your request. -- Wyn talk 19:51, 27 May 2010 (UTC)

Sorry for the rant, you could understand where i'm coming from its like being burgled. As for the support tickets i didn't realise that uksupport@ncsoft.com and support@ncsoft.com was linked to the same system and i'm sorry for that.

Is it possible to e-mail me Hacktrix2006{@}live.com (already in public domain so i don't mind!) with any news. Thanks for the fast reply do you know how long it will take.. Thanks

Unfortunate email address Tylenol Jones 01:34, 28 May 2010 (UTC)

Ha ha ha, that's what I thought. --smøni 01:35, 28 May 2010 (UTC)

You filed both of those tickets today. And honestly, the team needs at least a day to get to them, usually more than a day (because of volume). I can see both tickets have been escalated to the Account Support Team (I let them know they were the same issue, so they don't spin their wheels). You provided keys and other very important information, and I believe that what you did will help get your ticket through the review process more quickly. Now, it's already Friday in the UK. And in both the UK and the US, Monday is a holiday. I very much hope that the team will be able to get back to you today, but it may take a bit of extra time because of the holiday, and if it does, I'm sorry.

As for me, while I can't help with this individual matter, I am trying very hard to get that "You've been blocked for fraud" message changed, because it is very seldom accurate! -- Gaile 01:46, 28 May 2010 (UTC)

(Reset indent) Thanks for your quick reply, Sorry for the rants in both tickets and on here. I also agree about the message needing to be changed also some kind of better security methord to be used. I check both my network and all PC's on it with 8 Anti-virus rootkits and other scanners and found no keyloggers or rootkits so security my end was sound (not saying yours is not). The Name a Charactor on the account is a little too easy it needs to have some kind of security question that only the person that made it knows.

I just hope that i haven't had anything stripped from my account!!! Will keep you all updated and thanks for your help once again!

As for my e-mail address to the two guys that thought it was funny i have that e-mail for a good reason as its my nickname in real-life. As i dismantel electronics everyday!

Changed E-mail as I didn't give full e-mail out sorry....!

Update My account is now unbanned which is great, thanks to all that helped with their fast service!

I'm really glad everything is sorted out for you now. Have a nice weekend. -- Gaile 05:22, 29 May 2010 (UTC)

Playing Two Accounts at Once.

Question about playing with two accounts at once.

Hi Gaile!

Firstly, thanks for the swift help from support the other week when I had issues with buying from the store (the old well known problem with two accounts / same credit card issue that crops up when too many individual purchases are made too fast) All sorted quickly and I was able to finish buying all the costumes across both accounts.

Secondly a question about all these bans. I'm sure you wont be able to answer fully for obvious reasons. But some kind of reassurance would be nice. Here's the thing. I don't use third party programs, don't use texmod (tried it once but didn't like it much), don't use multilauncher (I use a virtual machine to run the second account when I need them both logged in at once), never botted, never used an exploit, rarely if ever, sold anything to other players, rarely bother to farm (too lazy!), haven't played PvP in years (don't like it, I prefer PvE by far). In fact, I've never done anything that would be considered against any terms and conditions. I intentionally avoid playing with other people if I can help it, and stick with Heroes/Henchies and just play alone, do my own thing, don't even get involved in the arguments in LA Dis 1 (though some sure are fun to watch).

What I do do, is sometimes play with both my accounts at once, so I can setup a full party exactly how I want, using heroes. Which also lets me still play in FoW/UW if I choose to, without having to resort to some PUG group or something. Now I personally see absolutely nothing wrong with this. I keep to myself and I'm not hurting anyone, and with six heroes in the party, I'm certainly not getting tons of drops. Or, contrary to what some people might think, having an easy time of it. Micromanaging two accounts at once is quite a challenge, a fun one though! But I'd really like an official word on if this is acceptable or not because I've been playing pretty much since the beginning and would hate to lose either account at this point.

Also, I wont get banned for not talking to people either will I? Silly question I know, but I've noticed a lot of people take it upon themselves to police the game and report anyone who isn't involved in some great debate in an outpost or doesn't whisper back to them, as a bot. And well, Heroes and Henchies tend not to make good conversational partners, so unless I'm idling about, I rarely pay attention to anything that's said in Local, and not really up for conversing with a complete stranger who might whisper me out of the blue, or start random trades with me for no reason.

Lastly, since I'm usually worn out after work, I'll often just fall asleep while playing (another reason I prefer to play alone). Could I end up banned for leaving the game running idle for hours? Obviously that would be an issue in missions involving other teams like the faction challenge missions, but I don't play those. This is mostly a concern due to the ability to report people. Are there careful checks in place to ensure someone hasn't just been reported for being quiet or idle?

Thanks for your time, sorry for the wall of text!

P.S. Before anyone suggests joining a guild, making friends etc. and so on. I've done all that, had my own, ran my own alliance, even was part of one of the larger European guilds at one point. But that was the old days. These days I just prefer to play quietly by myself doing my own thing with no pressure, and heroes/henchies don't ragequit, go for dinner, DC, insist on using certain builds, etc. Though Koss does steal all the best drops, I'm sure of it.. :P -- Tylenol Jones 13:24, 28 May 2010 (UTC)

Hi TJ. I am glad we were able to help with the previous incident. I'm sorry to hear Koss is snatching your drops, too. I am 100% certain he's picking up at least 80% of the gold and every green and gold that I come upon, too. Man, I'd love to see his storage vault! ;)

I wish I could be more directly helpful with your questions, but keep in mind that cheaters, exploiters, and (imo, worst of all) Real-Money Traders are all looking for ways to avoid detection. So rather than to check off on what you've written, rather than say "That's ok" or "We track that other thing," let me just suggest that if you ever do get caught in a bot net, you let the team know your gameplay details, so they can check them against the records in order to address the appeal.

I do not want to put valuable and exploitable information in the hands of the very people we're trying remove (or keep out of) the game. So keep on keepin' on, and if a problem should arise, communicate with the team and let them help you sort it out.

Meanwhile, do you have any idea if there's a brain-upgrade option for Orion? :) -- Gaile 03:34, 29 May 2010 (UTC)

Hi Gaile!

Thanks for getting back to me. Yeah, I had a feeling replying to my questions would be pretty difficult without giving too much away regarding detection methods. I'm probably just worrying too much anyway, caught up in the panic after seeing lots of people banned and claiming they'd not done anything wrong. I mean if anything was to happen to mine, support would only have to look at my accounts to see they're clearly not ones that's ever cheated, heck I think the only titles that are even maxed on my characters are the protector of Tyria ones, pretty sad after five years, huh? Shudders at the recurring memory of the Dunes of Despair bonus, lol.

As for Orion. I'm still waiting on the quest line to appear where we discover he's actually an escaped inmate of Sardelac Sanitarium. Who went quite mad after the searing, eventually escaping, kidnapping the real Orion and taking his place (hence the change in hair color!). Actually that would make for an awesome bunch of quests, you could eventually find the real Orion held prisoner deep under Ascalon in the remains of the Catacombs where he's spent all these years learning -sensible- ele skills, lol. Would give you guys a great reason to replace him with a henchie who doesn't attempt to get everyone killed every chance he gets :D You know, he was the reason my first character was a Ranger, and remained my only one for well over a year.. so I could stay further back from the action, ready to run when the inevitable Orion born party wipe would happen. :)

Oh before I forget, you mentioned real money traders. Now I know that means people who'll buy gold for real money, which I've never done, but it got me to thinking, years ago I used to do digital paintings of people's characters for in-game gold. I know a lot did/do offer services like that, but it suddenly occurred to me that I have no idea if it was breaking any terms and conditions or not (I'm hoping it wasn't). No real world money ever changed hands, just in-game gold for paintings of in-game characters.

BTW, regarding the store. Are there any plans for adding more costumes/extra's we can buy from it in the future? Bonus weapons to cover the classes not included with the GOTY or BM weapons would be awesome! My heroes would be thankful (except Koss, who'd be jealous!).Tylenol Jones 05:57, 29 May 2010 (UTC)

Just a fun fact about Koss's storage methods. He keeps his stuff in his hair. --Orry 04:19, 1 June 2010 (UTC)

He doesn't keep the stuff. He sells it all. He and Melonni are saving for a house. MithTalk 13:25, 1 June 2010 (UTC)

With the amount of Ninja Looting he's done to me, he could afford Cantha. Tylenol Jones 14:43, 1 June 2010 (UTC)

New Account

Hello Gaile, I have been informed that if your account has been banned, any further accounts that you purchase also risk termination. Is this true? 82.1.246.150 20:59, 28 May 2010 (UTC)

You have to email support and they give you permission to get another, iirc. -- Tha Reckoning 21:19, 28 May 2010 (UTC)

We do not automatically ban a new account that someone creates after he or she has been banned. If that account is involved in an infration, naturally it is subject to a suspension or to closure (termination). But if someone was banned (account terminated), if he purchases a new account and starts afresh, and if the record on the new account remains clean, we would very, very seldom take action on the new account.

I call this our "Go forth and sin no more" policy. :) -- Gaile 03:50, 29 May 2010 (UTC)

I'd like to point out that the exact opposite supposedly happened to diffuse(?) as he (and others) reported on QQ. He made a new account after his main was banned, but his new account was banned shortly thereafter. However, this was probably because he didn't re-download the client (i.e., he was still playing on a client that had the injected bot .dll) Scratch that, [8] --Riddle 03:55, 29 May 2010 (UTC)

I have no idea what happened in those cases, but the people involved are welcome to write to discuss the matter with Support. I agree with you that in order to be safe, a complete uninstall and a completely fresh download of the entire game file is a great idea.

I can tell you what our policy is and I can tell you that we don't summarily block new accounts, and I know this to be true. Now, let's be clear: I'm taking about a brand new account, not a second-hand or a passed-along or a used-to-be-played-by-my-cousin account, nor one that was purchased through a reseller. There are a lot of unauthorized account sales every day. Standing in Kamy saying "WTB account" is not likely to get you one that's of any use :) So someone could have bought a used account or someone could have been given or sold an access key that was already in use or that had been previously disabled due to fraud of one kind or another. In those cases, the accounts probably weren't closed, they were probably never activated.

IP blocks? No. And we don't try to entice someone to spend money and then laugh maniacally as they install the new game and zap them upon entry. We're nicer people than that. We are way more of the "Ok, we'll give you another chance" than the type of folks who say, I'm going to ban you, and your little dog, too!" ;) -- Gaile 04:14, 29 May 2010 (UTC)

We are way more of the "Ok, we'll give you another chance" than the type of folks who say, I'm going to ban you, and your little dog, too!" -- If that's the case, what's up with Support currently dishing out automated "bugger off forever" replies to every single person emailing them about account terminations? And why are people being told if their little dog (or any other creature sharing their computer) was running a bot, they would be banned without a chance to appeal as well even if they didn't violate the EULA (this is from the email in question; I'm not pulling that one out of thin air, as much as I wish I was)? Cases aren't even being reviewed. It's concerning. -Faer 04:53, 29 May 2010 (UTC)

All cases are being reviewed. Every single one. Not every account holder is getting that response. Those who have a legitimate appeal are being handled individually and would get a different response. However, those people are very, very few in number. Consider that more than 3,700 accounts were closed. Many of those people will appeal, although they know full well they are guilty. Many others will appeal because they don't feel they were guilty, but they were. The appeals of people who were caught dead-to-rights fill up the queues and delay responses to people who have other issues or who may have a legitimate reason for an appeal. It is not reasonable to expect that support agents will sit down and pen a personal response to each person. The response that you've seen contains all the pertinent information in a clear, concise, and informative form. Trying to write a different letter to hundreds of people is an unnecessary waste of time and it risks possibly leaving out some information, as well, or opening the door to the sorts of strange fan forum speculations we're familiar with, like "Why did that say 'definitely' and that other one say 'positively'? I suspect a conspiracy of some sort!"

So, if someone gets that response, then that response is appropriate to the situation. It is not a brush off. It does not indicate that the team is not reading the tickets. It does not mean that a single appeal has been ignored, or that the circumstances that lead to the block were not carefully reviewed. The detailed and informative response is sent after a review, after verification of the block, and after the decision that the particular response is the best way to give each person the most accurate and complete representation of the situation. It is only sent to those to whom it applies; it is only sent when it is appropriate.

As to the "My dog ate my homework" errr... sorry... let's call it the "My roommate downloaded a bad program that somehow I used 10,000 times on my account" excuse. :) Each of us is responsible for our account. For keeping it safe. For not using cheat programs. We're similarly responsible for the integrity of our computer. It's just nearly unbelievable that someone was banned because "some other evil person" downloaded and used an unacceptable program on his or her computer. I doubt that such a situation applies to even one of the people with a terminated account, but we included that information to make it clear that "I didn't know it was on my system" is not an acceptable excuse. And I'm sure it's crystal clear why that can't be accepted as an adequate defense. -- Gaile 05:19, 29 May 2010 (UTC)

I'm sorry, but I find it hard to believe that tickets are being properly reviewed when queries about account activity and concerns about the security of online financing accounts are raised and "support" responds with the same automated reply everyone else is being given. Surely nobody expects a personal letter written in response to each ticket, but even one iota of acknowledgment of the actual content of the ticket would go a long way towards quelling any rumors that support is just an officially sanctioned bot. -Faer 07:29, 29 May 2010 (UTC)

(Reset indent) I have yet to have a single report from someone whose new account was closed after his old one was terminated for botting (or terminated for any reason whatsoever). There are a lot of reasons that an account can be closed right away; principle amongst them is the use of an invalid or stolen credit card or an error in processing the purchase. Other things can triggers an account closure, too. But we don't close randomly based on prior bans.

If someone had this happen, I want to hear from you directly. Please use the "email this user" system on this wiki and send me:

• Your former Guild Wars User Name -- the one that was banned
• Your NCsoft Master Account Name
• The new Guild Wars User Name -- the one that was newly banned when you created the account
• The date of the termination (the big ban was on May 26th)
• The date of the new purchase
• Was your credit card charged? On what date?
• Was your credit card subsequently credited with that charge? On what date?
• If you contacted Support, please provide your 12-digit Incident (Ticket) Number(s).

At this point, I've only seen comments like, "People are getting banned" or "I heard about..." or "Someone told me this happened to a friend of theirs..." and none of those give me enough data to research the matter. So at this point, this really looks like a rumor. I am happy to do an investigation if I can get factual details. Thanks! -- Gaile 19:33, 29 May 2010 (UTC)

Banned #100527-001169

Gaile could you please review this ban, all info is in the ticket but i am just getting the same response like everyone else does. I would really appreciate your effort on this. The Emunator

As you can imagine, I can't offer to assist the owners of each of the 3,700+ accounts that were closed this week. Each ticket is reviewed by multiple people to check for accuracy and if there are any anomalies, that should be spotted early on. Having said that, certainly it's good to know if there are extraordinary details that may relate to the particular account in question. Please see my email for more information. Thanks. -- Gaile 04:33, 29 May 2010 (UTC)

Sorry to say, i havent seen your e-mail yet. The Emunator

That is because it was sitting in my out box, one of 17 windows I had open. ;) Sent now. -- Gaile 05:40, 29 May 2010 (UTC)

No problem Gaile did get your mail now and thanks for responding at least. The Emunator

Sorry to say Gaile, but i never noticed any new responces, so i updated my ticket because it became closed. Please read it again since it realy is getting anoying now. The Emunator 07:41, 4 June 2010 (UTC)

Question about Match Fixing

Gaile can you explain to me what they mean by match fixing? I remember back when Hero Battles was first on the Z Quest rounds and people were doing things like red resigns, Lindsey said it was match fixing and an actionable offence but nothing seemed to happen and she ended up getting rid of HB as a consequence. If Z Coin resignations were the source, did everyone who resigned on a z coin day get a ban or did they target people who repeatedly do it a number of times?

Is this what the recent bans for "match fixing" were over, or were they specifically targeting people who fixed MATs (in my research I found this thread http://guildwars.incgamers.com/forums/showthread.php?s=207897952248249d2598db6e85d3563d&t=486098 which seems to show some kind of discussion about it, I wasn't around at the time).

I understand both situations are actionable offences and you don't want to give people a false sense of security if they desire to resign for z coins in the future. 122.111.6.21 07:11, 29 May 2010 (UTC)

Anything case of match manipulation may be actioned. We don't only enforce the Rules of Conduct and the Tournament Rules during a MAT; an account can be actioned at any time at all for wrongdoing. So fixing a match -- for instance, instantly resigning a match to give someone else points -- is wrong and subject to account action. Clearly, that's not playing the game the way it was intended to be played. It garners people undeserved and unearned rewards.

A ban can happen in the first instance. A ban can happen in the 10th, 31st, 2nd...in any instance whatever. I am not saying "We will monitor every match and ban every single player who engages in match manipulation every single time." I am not saying "We will add an automatic cheater detection system," or "we will add live observers to games" or "we will track every match on Observer Mode." Maybe we will. Maybe we won't. Really, the only thing I can say is, "We can and may ban anyone who manipulates a match in any way, at any time." -- Gaile 19:19, 29 May 2010 (UTC)

Long story short: It's all random, I tell you that!! Speedbooking with heroes is also "not playing the game the way it was intended to be played". Is ArenaNet doing something about it? NO!. As a player you can watch them do and work you ass off, or you can do the same and maybe 6 months later they'll ban you. Who knows... JustSaying 20:45, 29 May 2010 (UTC)

Correction: It is not random. -- Gaile 00:54, 30 May 2010 (UTC)

Gaile, I hate to say this because I know you're already getting a lot of grief from various botters and whiners. And I very much appreciate the work ArenaNet's recently done in regards to said group. But that is a flat-out contradiction. You say "A ban can happen in the 10th, 31st, 2nd...in any instance whatever." And then you say "Maybe we will. Maybe we won't." Now, you could claim that you're just being cryptic, but unless ArenaNet discovers a player is botting or exploiting and deliberately avoids banning him until 30 violations later, it is random. It's random because ArenaNet cannot monitor every account, and so bans are meted out based on when the botting is discovered. And that depends on factors partially out of ArenaNet's control. So unless ArenaNet bans certain cheaters and pardons others based on some hidden agenda, which I would very much like to believe is not the case, it is in fact random. That's not good or bad, it's just a fact.

Of course, JustSaying is also wrong, because he's suggesting that bans are given by drawing names of players out of a universal hat. And that's just stupid. elix Omni 05:24, 30 May 2010 (UTC)

I'm sorry if what I said was confusing. It's true I must be cryptic because we didn't spend all the time to do this, only to give the botters chapter and verse about how it was done. :) When I said "It may be this time, it may be that time" I was specifically thinking about observed bots. Time was, I used to spend a few hours of my weekend sitting in certain outposts or towns watching for bots. When I saw them, I did some further research, verified their bottiness, and banned 'em. And you can see where my comment makes sense in that context, I'm sure: That botter may have been on the map for an hour, or he might have been running it for a week. I happened to nab him at that particular moment and that was the end of that.

The comment "maybe we will, maybe we won't" did not mean some sort of capricious "If you're caught for botting, we may or may not block you." If you are caught botting, we will block you. My comment referred to the possibilities immediately preceding it, such as using live observers, checking ObsMode matches, or devising a detection system. I'm not saying we'll do any or all of those things. I'm saying that we may, and that people are nuts to breach the RoC and the UA knowing that we might do so at any time.

Someone might not be detected in the first instance of using a bot, or he might. If you read the fan forums, you'll note that the people who were banned were both new players and old; both botting veterans and botting newbies. But timing isn't important. Through any of the various means we have to find bots -- and we do have more than one means -- the chances are pretty high that a botter is going to get caught at some point. For even while James Phinney's blog points out that no game is 100% bot free, the number in Guild Wars was clearly reduced as of Wednesday. -- Gaile 06:24, 30 May 2010 (UTC)

I'm not talking about the 'ban time' being random (sorry, English isn't my mother tongue ;)), but about the fact that some not playing the game the way it was intended to be played is sanctioned, and some isn't. Are you telling me speedbooking without spawns is supposed to happen? People get the titles by doing 10% of the work they should do. Are you going to ban? Doesn't seem to be good for business because KISS and other guilds do this, so no. Random, yet selective way of handling infractions, I give you that! JustSaying 06:54, 30 May 2010 (UTC)

Can you put up some kind of FAQ (and continue to update it )to what A-Net considers match fixing? I feel like match fixing is a wide net of activities that, to me personally, seem to range from mild offensive actions to dramatic infringements. For example, if I my internet was shaped for the month when I cross my data allowance (which is common in Australia) I might experience large lag spikes on my end causing my appearing in a PvP arena to be that of a bot or leecher. Sometimes if I get a lot of telemarketers or (god forbid) real people call me while trying to net in a few FA games, my play style and commitment to the arena might appear erratic. Match fixing in the RoC seems to range from MATs to ZQ "resign farming" in Codec and GvG, but it also seems to include leeching and possibly even arena syncing. Obviously match fixing is a little harder to define than botting because it is done using mechanics and options the game already gives the player. When I started playing there was no FAQ of how or when I was allowed to use the /resign command (which didn't seem to be a problem for the majority of players until a reason to resign was introduced by the Live Team). Leeching (as much as I hate it - I admit it is vague in definition and behaviour) wasn't initially in the RoC.

My concern is match fixing, to me, seems vague in its boundaries and definitions. As a player I would like to know what I can and can't do to avoid getting banned. Whether I need to avoid certain places because circumstances outside of my control will cause me to get a ban for leeching. I'm not asking for you to say "players who are reported for leeching x amount of times in x time period who perform actions x y or z or don't perform actions a b or c will be banned" but I would like a more comprehensive list or explanation of what unacceptable means, or even how it is measured. The botting question seems easy for me to avoid - when I play GWs that's the only program I run for that activity, I still listen to music or browse the net sometimes but I don't use bots or mods of any kind) but match manipulation seems a harsh thing to punish in many cases because there are no clear guide lines of what it involves and what kinds of punishments are dealt out to players.

I understand the desire to "hide" techniques of identifying people who participate in match manipulation, but if you are specific about what kinds of things and what extent match manipulation is punished it would help guide players to play in a way that does not breech the RoC. Worst case scenario is in some cases people might perform the act right up the point of tolerance and then stop, but I consider that a success if it stops them from doing it. I am disappointed a scare tactic like the recent bans was used without an extended FAQ to specifically outline some of the areas or teach people exactly what it was the people who were banned were doing wrong. In the case of bots the reasons seem clear but for methods of detection which only involve in game mechanics I would really appreciate a more detailed FAQ. While I personally think fear can be a good way of keeping people from breaking the rules, sometimes I think being clear on what the rules are specifically can be a better one (and lead to less anxious players). 122.111.6.21 07:04, 30 May 2010 (UTC)

Sorry, but it's impractical and imprudent for us to offer an ever-revised FAQ or a frequently-updated, comprehensive list of cheats. Because:

• It's not practical, or a good use of time, to write up such a document, only to have to update it the next week when someone devises a new way to cheat.
• We decline to waste time on the "it's not on the list, therefore you can't block me" arguments. Such discussions are utterly pointless, but some people do insist in trying to engage in them anyway.
• We don't want to build a list that provides a blueprint instructing other people how to cheat.
• It doesn't take a professional gamer to figure out if he's cheating or not. If it feels like it might be a cheat, it probably is a cheat. If you think "This can't be right" it's probably wrong.
• If you're unsure, you can always write support@guildwars.com and ask.

Ask yourself, "Did I play through the match fairly? Did I refuse to play with cheats, hacks, or exploits?" Then you're fine. If you're trying the latest super-secret means to unbelievable wealth, then it's probably not so good. If it's "unbelievable" then it's probably wrong. Taking a dive, fixing a match, agreeing to insta-resign (based on colour, time, district, or the cycles of the moon) is clearly cheating. Full matches without cheats = good. Shortened matches for undeserved points = bad. Resigning because you didn't get your Take-A-Fall opponent = bad. And naturally, using a program that allows you to "play" while you're off having dinner is cheating. At the present time, I do not see that there's anything vague or unclear about this.

Now, if your personal situation causes you to look like a bot when you're not botting, then explain that to Support when you appeal the termination. There are a large number of parameters (more than 20) that are reviewed before an account is blocked. It is extremely unlikely that someone with just a faulty connection is going to get banned and if that's the only problem it's likewise extremely likely that his account will be released upon appeal.

Let's be clear: There is no "point of tolerance" for cheating. If you cheat once, you risk an account termination. If you aren't caught today, you may be caught tomorrow. If you're not caught for a while, maybe we're taking names and building a list that will include your account. Maybe we don't have the tools yet to track a particular issue, but are working on that tool. Maybe when it's enabled, everyone who ever used that particular cheat will be banned. There is precedent for this in the past, in the game and in real life. That sort of sanction is perfectly fair. If something is a cheat and isn't caught, the cheat doesn't have a shelf life, using it is not forgiven, and those who use it can and may be actioned at a later date.

Please review the Rules of Conduct, the two Tournament Rules documents, and the Guild Wars User Agreement, and the Conduct Breaches and Outcomes document for further information. -- Gaile 20:12, 30 May 2010 (UTC)

Well Gaile, I respectfully disagree that 'Match Manipulation' is a term which most players would understand fully without leaving things out. I think a lot of people would be surprised to find that syncing would be considered match fixing. It's only natural for players to want to play with their friends, and thus try to enter an arena at the same time so they can play together. I am disappointed that as an honest player who was not banned, when I asked for the support liaison to explain part of the RoC to me in greater detail, you referred me back to the same document I had clearly already read and gave me a bunch of excuses not to share the information. Clearly support has a criteria of things which they are and are not acting upon - people are being banned, those bans have reasons - share the reasons in non-vague terms please. It seems bizarre that you would not share that with the players so they don't infringe on that criteria. You don't need to write the list - it already exists. 58.110.131.113 22:08, 31 May 2010 (UTC)

Code 045

Hey Gaile, when I contact support for my account being terminated I get automated responses and they don't read my messages... What should I do? Sjacie 07:04, 29 May 2010 (UTC)

These are the tickets i used... I started a new one since I haven't gotten a real response just the automatic ones everyone gets...

1. 100527-001010
2. 100529-000876

Those 3700 accounts getting banned is excessive... Sure i was wrong so where a lot of people who are still around... But it's all in the support messages. Sjacie 07:44, 29 May 2010 (UTC)

I'll say it, since I don't think Gaile can anyway. Tough nuggets, you broke the rules, now deal with it. It's rare that they overturn any of these anyway, so you may as well just move on. -- Tha Reckoning 08:57, 29 May 2010 (UTC)

I just want someone to really respond in stead of those standard messages... Sjacie 09:22, 29 May 2010 (UTC)

BTW i feel pushed to breaking the rules by anet and i haven't heard a reason that would make the ban reasonable

Feeling pressured by ANET to bot? Rather silly excuse if I say so myself. You botted, you deserve the perma. It's a little late for, "Oops, I'm sorry." You want a reason that shows you deserve the ban? Here's one, "You Botted." ~ 216.117.192.20 10:10, 29 May 2010 (UTC)

The question is more like why me and not so many others, if you don't have anything useful to add then don't say it at all. Sjacie 10:38, 29 May 2010 (UTC)

Why not ask the police officer to pull over the cars behind you and front of you too, when you're caught for speeding? It doesn't matter about the others at the moment, they will get caught in due time. The issue here is with you. You broke the rules and you deserve to be punished. You don't have the right to say, "But so and so didn't get banned, so I want to be unbanned/have them banned too/whatever." They will get caught just as you did. ~ 216.117.192.20 12:43, 29 May 2010 (UTC)

I'm asking Gaile, I don't want your opinions... Sure Gaile might give me an answer very much like yours. Gaile can see my support tickets it's all in there and the rest is none of your business. Sjacie 12:54, 29 May 2010 (UTC)

And both of you act if there's only right and wrong... But I think there's a lot of people who used an exploit that will never get a ban and act all righteous now...

"BTW i feel pushed to breaking the rules by anet and i haven't heard a reason that would make the ban reasonable" Wait, what? You feel pushed to breaking the rules by Anet? Did they send a guy with a gun? Did they blackmail you? Excuse me if I misunderstood, but you felt that the company asked you to break the agreements you accepted, to which you and every other player is expected to adhere? 94.209.65.245 13:49, 29 May 2010 (UTC)

Let's just put it like this every time i thought something was wrong i didn't do it. But those things all backfired and people who did got a lot more stuff then i did and anet let them be. And I got responses from 3 different people here... I bet at least one of you has done the red resigning stuff with Hero Battles... Sjacie 15:27, 29 May 2010 (UTC)

I've participated in rr-day since i was curious but not enough to gain much of anything- it was too boring. I've also used very simple key macros too but it's not automated, you have to actively press the keys to make it work. The ones I've used are pretty simple like to type /resign automatically or to double click with a single key to open presents and use party points so I don't get injure my index finger with repetitive motion (it's a lot easier to rotate finger use on a keyboard than on a mouse). Other than that, I never used anything automated. I think the key is automation for banning. --Lania Elderfire 16:16, 29 May 2010 (UTC)

Lania you're the first one that added something while not whining and you may be right but I need a distinction made by a GM cause they're dealing in double standards now and that's just something i have trouble dealing with. Sjacie 17:29, 29 May 2010 (UTC)

It's not a double standard at all. If someone is caught, they are banned. If you want other people to be caught and banned, then report them, take screenshots, send to support. elix Omni 17:32, 29 May 2010 (UTC)

(Reset indent) First, no one is getting an automated response (after the first, which is clearly labeled as automated). Each ticket is reviewed by a real live human being who then sends the petitioner a carefully worded and detailed response to his appeal. The reply is seldom customized to say "I read this sentence and here is my response." After all, we want to be both consistent in our messaging and speedy in our responses; therefore, the response will often read the same to all who fall into a specific category, such as this week's botters.

Let me be clear that there is a tremendous difference between "automated response" and "uniform response." We are using a uniform response because it has been written to include a lot of detailed information, it has been reviewed by the Live Team to ensure it meets with their standards, and it provides everyone with the same high level of detailed information, which is the fair and appropriate thing to do. (Otherwise, someone could be missing details, or might get a shorter letter than leaves them dissatisfied with another player's expanded response.) That uniform response is sent after human review and is not triggered automatically.

I have not read the tickets mentioned in this thread. But someone who defends him- or herself for wrongdoing by saying "Everyone else is doing it" is settling on a very poor defense indeed. That would be essentially saying, "I cheated, but so did others and they did not get caught. Therefore, I should be unbanned." That's just not going to work; that's not even close to a reasonable concept. Try it in the real world: If you get pulled over by a police officer for speeding, do you for one instant imagine he cares that some other driver was speeding too? If you rob a bank and get caught, can you escape punishment by pointing at those who did the same and got away with it? (Yes, those are dramatic examples, but I hope they help clarify the matter.) In the end, the point is: You did wrong; you were banned. It's really that simple. -- Gaile 19:04, 29 May 2010 (UTC)

If you get pulled over for speeding they don't lock you away for life...

Second it's like anet has taken away all signs with speed limits and now they're enforcing harder then ever. Sjacie 09:56, 30 May 2010 (UTC)

What needs to be added English isn't my primary language so sometimes I had poor phrasing I think.

And you banned 3700+ acocunts that must be over 1000 people you really think it's all really that simple?

The penalty for speeding is ~$50, the penalty for botting is a permanent ban. That's how the system works. More, by playing GW, you signed the EULA, Sjacie, which states You agree not to use any hardware or software,.....including but not limited to the use of 'bots' and/or any other method by which the Service may be played automatically without human input. So if you indeed botted, it's indeed that simple. You are permanently banned. You knew you would be permanently banned, because it is in the EULA. Your banning has nothing to do with the 3.699 other accounts that got banned. If you bot, and Anet catches you, it's game over. -- Arduin 18:03, 30 May 2010 (UTC)

Noone ever forced you to bot. You have made the choice yourself and now you feel the consequences. InfestedHydralisk 19:43, 2 June 2010 (UTC)

TexMod

Is running Texmod for Cartography purposes included in the list of bannable "hacks" and exploits? This is especially relevant (and crucial IMO) to this Wiki's Cartography research so a concrete Yes/No answer is needed plz. --ilr 17:25, 29 May 2010 (UTC)

Nine hundred people have already asked that. Try Ctrl+F for TexMod. And use the right talk page. Hint: it's not this one. elix Omni 17:26, 29 May 2010 (UTC)

This is the right talk page b/c it has already happened to other users. However in the Support Ticket they receive, was this: "Some players have said they believe that their account was terminated because they used certain third-party programs such as TexMod or Guild Wars Multi-Client. We do not action the accounts of people who use these programs because in their original form they do not give players an inherent gameplay advantage.". Yet the Users were banned anyway meaning that these GM's might be confused on the official policy themselves. I have wiki work to finish so that Cartographers seeking the title will never have to load TexMod for it again, but Official word from the Support rep is required before I even consider risking it. --ilr 18:42, 29 May 2010 (UTC)

""This is my personal user page. It is not the Bugs page. It is not the Support Issues page. It is not where you put complaints about customer service or worries about a new exploit or discussion about the horrible things that happened to the brother of your best friend's cousin's roommate. :)"

Please place the topics you wish to discuss in the appropriate section. Thank you. -- Gaile 00:24, 26 May 2010 (UTC)}} Taken from a section just barely above this one.

In other words, try the Support page for Support issues. But before posting anything there, read the 5 or 6 sections that asked exactly the same thing you did. elix Omni 20:14, 29 May 2010 (UTC)

@Felix -- thanks for that. I hope these topics will end up getting properly placed. But since I wrote all this out, I'll post it here...

@Ilr -- This isn't the right page, actually. But here's your answer: The users of these programs in their original form -- without elements that adding cheating, exploiting, or key logging capabilities -- were not banned. It's not on us to vet your third-party programs. That's why they're "third-party" after all. :) If you're confident you have an original, unadulterated version of TexMod or Guild Wars Multi-Client, that should make your decision about whether or not to use it all that much clearer. But no one on our team in any capacity is able to give you clearance to use the program, because we cannot and will not appraise its individual integrity.

Do be aware that people saying "I only used TexMod" may not know the program was altered. They also may not be being 100% truthful. Shocking, I know, that someone would be dishonest on the Internet! ;) But hey, it happens, just as "I didn't scam that guy" happens when we have half a dozen scams in the full game logs in front of us, or "I didn't throw a match" when we can see 11 resignations in 4 minutes. Now that's some sorta "legitimate" gameplay, eh?

As to the original question, please do review the wiki pages about the subject because we're not able to give a more detailed answer. -- Gaile 20:21, 29 May 2010 (UTC)

Multi Loader Question

Hi Gaile, I'm Matty Asia writer of Matty Asia Guild Wars Multi Loader (http://www.guildwarsmagic.com since 17-05-2008 - Happy BDay!), there have been a few questions directed at me since the recent banning system changes. The stance has always seemed to be if it doesn't affect the way the game is played then ANet doesn't mind.
My question will be based on these assumptions:
• The program MGWML removes the mutex from memory allowing players to open 2 Guild Wars client.
• The program changes no functional elements of in game play.

- i.e. Running the 2 copies would be the same as running 2 computers with 1 copy on each, but less costly.

• The player still needs 2 or more accounts to play more than one copy at a time.
• The program does not edit any game files
• It has no other functionality, no bots, nothing except letting them open more than 1 copy of Guild Wars.
Some players are wondering if it is still safe to use it? Or more so:
Does the old policy of if it doesn't affect how the game play/works it is ok, but still our responsibility if the game stops working (don't call support)
Many people will appreciate the answers to this question.
Of course not endorsing THIS program yourself, but the theory. (I'll take an endorsement if you really want to)
Thanks, Matty 06:18, 30 May 2010 (UTC)

Hi there Matty. You ask some good questions. I am going to discuss this with dev team members and get back to you on whatever answers we can give. This is a holiday weekend so we will need to ask for a couple of days to find out what there is to say about the matter. (Oh, and I'm pretty sure I can't give you an endorsement, but thanks for asking. :) ) -- Gaile 06:29, 30 May 2010 (UTC)

Thanks a lot Gaile, if the dev team wishes to see the code of the program or anything, I'm always happy to work with them, as long as they don't release it to the world. Do enjoy whatever holiday this is (I'm always in Australia or China -- China mostly) and I'll be looking forward to hear the response. If there's anything you don't want to discuss more privately, just give me a (not so public) way to send you my email address and I'll give it to you. IGN: "Matty Asia" - often away but in game P.S. I'm still after my Mini Panda ^^ Matty 07:19, 30 May 2010 (UTC)

Wouldn't it be easier just to have a "Allow to run more than one copy of GW" option like some other programs have? MithTalk 19:34, 1 June 2010 (UTC)

Game Abuse

I have another concern about Game Abuse. Obviously you can't list every abuse in the game but now I'm seeing people in game call certain 'tactics' game abuse. In Fort Aspenwood there is a strategy which involved standing near a teleporter and spamming ritualist defensive spirits. Even if you don't spam spirits you can stand in a location that is unable to be reached by the opposing players and the turtle will aggro onto your character and you can stop the turtle from advancing but be immune to his attacks. Seeing as the turtle's aggro and stalling it are both strategies that have existed in the game for a long time many people consider them acceptable. Will people who do things which have up till now been accepted, be banned for activities without warning? Obviously when you can't list everything, if players see something take place for an extended period of time without any sign of disapproval by A-Net they consider it safe to do. Now that game abuse is punished with permanent bans all opposing teams need to do is say "strategy a is game abuse and thus a bannable offence, if you keep doing it I will report you to support and you will be banned" and then people stop running specific builds or strategies out of fear of a ban for something that never got bans before.

Would it be asking too much for A-Net to be more vocal in log in announcements and forums about things like this? If their stance changes on a specific issue they didn't act on in the past could they first give a warning about the changed stance so players could alter their play style? I would like more communication from A-Net to help keep players informed about their concerns and what they consider "game abuse". At the moment when I play I feel like every time someone says something I do is game abuse I have to stop it even if people have been doing it for 1+ years because it's game abuse and I will get a ban out of nowhere. 122.111.6.21 07:45, 30 May 2010 (UTC)

If there isn't a counter to it, and it has a great effect on the outcome, I would consider it some kind of exploit of the game mechanics. But I don't speak for other users, Gaile, Anet. my Uncle Fred or his cat, Dusty. Tylenol Jones 08:55, 30 May 2010 (UTC)

IP, what you speak of sounds like the meta-game trying to work itself out, with people in the game thinking that threats of banning about tactics is an easier road than countering with new skills and tactics. If spirits become prominent, people can bring Gaze of Fury or anything that does Holy damage to get the upper edge again. If people see someone in JQ about to bomb themselves to death, snaring them should be a priority next time they rez. Unless the tactics are truly outside of the scope of the game (being able to enter the field before the timer counts down, etc.), Anet seems to at most nerf the tactic. G R E E N E R 18:37, 30 May 2010 (UTC)

It's not the build so much as the location. You are able to stall a turtle without being hit by its attacks or by other players. The build just allows you contribute significantly while doing so. As far as it being an exploit and not doing it, if you are a ranger and trying to kill the turtle from the side and slow the luxons from entering your base, you will stand at the wall in range of the turtle and players attacking, but they can attack you. If you are about to die and need to step out of aggro to heal but want to be quick so the turtle doesn't advance again, you are actively making a stupid decision by healing in a location that loses turtle aggro if a location that keeps aggro but is immune to damage exists. It's not immune because of some weird glitch, it's immune because it's too far behind "walls" for players to reach you with spells and it's elevated so siege attacks don't reach you either, but it's close enough that the turtle can see you and will try to fire on you. 58.110.131.113 20:36, 30 May 2010 (UTC)

100526-003991

Hi Gaile, hope you are well - if you could have a look at this support ticket when you have some free time, that would be very much appreciated! Ying Tze 10:00, 30 May 2010 (UTC)

The ticket has already been reviewed by the team. You ask that they provide you "data." By that I assume you mean "proof." I'm really sorry, but that is not going to happen for reasons that I believe are pretty obvious. And while I understand that you believe the third-party programs you used were completely benign and did not give your any in-game advantage, your account wouldn't have been included in the action if that were the case. If you did not knowingly bot, maybe one of the programs was corrupted by additions to the source code. I just don't know. :(

The whole process that was used in this investigation was developed by and analyzed and reviewed many times by a number of incredibly astute individuals. The chances of a "false positive" are, they tell me, pretty much non-existent. Having said that, your appeal is on file and if there is anything more to tell you about your situation, someone will get in touch via the ticket. -- Gaile 22:51, 30 May 2010 (UTC)

Gaile, many thanks for your response on this and appreciate that you are caught somewhat in the crossfire of all of this. I will close this wiki portion and take this via emails, as I will not let this rest. Again, your effort is much appreciated though. Ying Tze 09:55, 31 May 2010 (UTC)

3rd Party Applications

I've been banned for 3rd party applications. I've only used the ones on wiki, which leads me to believe that I may have a tainted application. I have deleted my GW directory, re-installed, and removed the old versions of Texmod, Ksmod, and GW launcher from my computer. I re-downloaded Texmod and Multi Launcher, and I was wondering after doing these things, would it be possible for me to get my account back. PhoenixS 21:16, 30 May 2010 (UTC)

Phoenix, you've changed your story from saying you wrote some of the programs you've used, to you've only used the downloaded wiki ones. You've gone and deleted you're statement that you've never botted. It's much easier to understand if you stick to one story. G R E E N E R 20:40, 31 May 2010 (UTC)

I've never botted, but I deleted that statement because everyone is saying that. I figured it wasn't pertitnent to my question. I've written my own texmod tpf files, which is what I meant by made my own programs. PhoenixS 21:27, 31 May 2010 (UTC)

Finding Safe Versions of Third-Party Programs

Where do I find these "vanilla" versions of Multi-Launch, KSmod, etc.?

First off, I know full well that neither Gaile nor anyone else from ANet can approve, vet or otherwise "validate" any third party mod, for understandable reasons. However, I cannot think of a better place to ask this, given that this support page is pretty "hot" after the recent Dhuumsday. :] If you can think of a better place for this, by all means, do move it. Thanks.

So, here's my question: can anyone here verify and post links to these "vanilla" versions of the mods that are "ok" with ANet, and that were not corrupted, updated, or otherwise changed to become potentially illegal? I am one of I'm sure many many users who are just not "edumacated" enough to be able to do the hash checks and whatever else needed to make sure that what I'm downloading/installing isn't going to get me banned. I have MultiLaunch and KSmod installed, but now I'm afraid to use either of them. Personally, I only care about a "legal" multi-launcher to transfer Nick's gifts and such, as I have 2 accounts and one computer here in Ukraine. But KSmod would be nice to have for the eye candy, and I'm sure plenty of players out there are interested in TexMod as well.

And another question: if I'm concerned about the "legality" of my versions of MultiLaunch and KSmod, and want to un-install them (which I'll probably do right now), would it be a good idea to completely re-install GW as well? I don't know how this dll injection works and whether it permanently modifies the gw.exe or gw.dat files. Again, thanks for any answers.

And lastly, a question to Gaile or whomever is in charge of these things: How come you guys still haven't incorporated a multi-launch into the GW client and a KSmod option into the graphics menu? From what I've heard about them, they sound so trivial to code for someone like the GW programmers. Help your players be safe! Give them the means to use all their accounts and see all the beautiful GW graphics without having to rely on third party tools that keep bouncing back and forth between "allowed -- disallowed -- gray area -- osht! my cousin's friend's guild mate got banned for it! -- oh but some versions are legal, but others aren't..." and just confuse the heck out of everyone.

Thanks for reading, and kudos to Gaile, the Live Team and Dhuum for yet another job well done. Rose Of Kali 17:07, 31 May 2010 (UTC)

on guildwarsguru, the KSMod is 'vanilla', otherwise it wouldn't be allowed there. dark chaos 17:49, 31 May 2010 (UTC)

Cool, thanks. Can you give a link, please? I don't really use gwg, and have no idea where to look for the mod on there. Rose Of Kali 17:58, 31 May 2010 (UTC)

GWx2 and KSMod. dark chaos 18:14, 31 May 2010 (UTC)

I don't like this bit "GWx2 notes: If you have previously used GWx2 before, you may need to retrieve a fresh untainted gw.exe." Untainted gw.exe? So it does something to the exe? I think I'll stick to using a virtual machine to run two copies at once, until such time as Anet flip a switch and allow more than one instance to run at once (which would, as mentioned above, solve a lot of problems) unless there's some way of running more than one version without the need to use a third party program at all? Tylenol Jones 18:31, 31 May 2010 (UTC)

There is, in fact. It just takes a simple registry edit. elix Omni 19:02, 31 May 2010 (UTC)

Thanks for the links.

And yeah, I really really wish ANet would finally put these two into the game. Can someone enlighten me about why they haven't yet? Anyone? I'm getting more and more paranoid, especially after what TJ pointed out above, I can almost guarantee that I'll be dreaming about getting banned tonight for having MultiLaunch installed. :( GAH! Felix, is there any place by chance that tells how to do this registry edit? I'm not a pro, but I've had to do it once before to uninstall something properly (I think it was Symantec) -- I can follow instructions. :P If not, I think I'm just gonna re-install GW and not transfer my Traveler Gifts for the next 6 months, until I get back to the US (hopefully) and can use 2 computers again. >_< I know, I know, I'm being too paranoid, you don't need to tell me that. Rose Of Kali 19:21, 31 May 2010 (UTC)

Tuts. elix Omni 19:29, 31 May 2010 (UTC)

No one can ever guarantee that any downloadable version is untainted, much less someone at ArenanNet, unless they host a version they are happy with themselves (Which they will never do). A link that is at this moment "safe" could be messed with at any time. Hash checking helps you be sure, but even that is not 100% (more like 99.999999%). Unfortunately you are not going to get an official answer here, or even a good answer Rose. The tutorial Felix linked is about as safe as you can get, but unless you understand it, you are trusting him and I. Misery 19:39, 31 May 2010 (UTC)

I looked into it a bit more and GWx2 appears to be pretty old and for some, doesn't work at all. Plus it seems to edit GW related files, which strikes me as something a bot detector would certainly pick up as not quite right. It's also not mentioned by Emily in her recent in-game chat (which neither confirms it's good or bad, to be fair to GWx2). http://code.google.com/p/gwmultilaunch/ However was mentioned http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/showpost.php?p=5154908&postcount=271 you can see the chat there. But read the rest of what Emily wrote. Now multi-launch claims it doesn't edit any files, and the source code is there for anyone to look at and compile themselves. There's also a multi-loader, which appears to be different, so be careful about them being different programs (multi-launcher was mentioned by Emily, multi-loader wasn't, and isn't open source). Really though, the only 100% safe way to run more than one copy at once is going to have to be through an Anet made change. Which I really would like to see, considering certain things said a long time ago were the cause for many of us to end up with two accounts, but I wont go into those "technically impossible" issues now. :) There's also the virtual machine method, but it's far from perfect, and not as neat as having two copies running properly side by side. Though it's probably the safest way for now, IMO. Tylenol Jones 19:43, 31 May 2010 (UTC)

Thanks, Felix, but from your link: NOTE: You will have to copy Gw.exe to Gw2.exe and edit Gw2.exe after EVERY update, because it replaces the exe when you update.. -- ok, well there goes that idea -- 1. annoying, 2. has "illegal" written all over it... :/ This is far from just a "simple registry edit." Screw this. ANet, will you code this into the game finally? Pretty Please? Stop teasing us with the "No, we won't ban you for using this. But we still might anyway."

Thanks everyone for links and tips and stuff, but I'm doing a clean re-install, and that's that. >_< Rose Of Kali 19:52, 31 May 2010 (UTC)

Hi, I'm Matty Asia, writer of Matty Asia Guild Wars Multi Loader (http://www.guildwarsmagic.com), the first multi loader that didn't edit game files, it's been running for 2 years now. I'd like to clear up a few points, GWx2 edits the gw.exe file, which I HIGHLY recommend against. Editing the registry to play more than one copy will not work, it is a required step of the process, but far from completion. You need a copy of the Guild Wars folder for each instance of the game you wish to open at once. The game contains a Mutex (MUTual EXclusive thingy) while one exists in memory, another copy of Guild Wars will not start. MGWML simply removes it from memory so GW can't tell that another copy is open. MWGWML is not open source, but it is written in C Sharp and can be easily decompiled, but not so easily recompiled. It has a couple of extra functions, it checks for updates, and checks for announcements. Announcements is so that if game policy changes against Multi Loaders I wish to tell all my users asap. We've been supported by http://www.presearing.com for quite some time now (click Forum on my site for a quick link to the topic). But very importantly, if you scroll up to "32 Multi Loader Question" on this page it shows where I'm trying to find out policy with the new changes. Matty 20:12, 31 May 2010 (UTC)

Hi, cool, it's great that you figured all this out and are doing your best to help players multi-launch legally, but... 1. 'Matty Asia Guild Wars Multi Loader' was not mentioned as "safe in its current form" by Emily in the link given by TJ above, or by any other ANet employee anywhere else I've seen. 2. presearing.com has no official authority of any kind, it's just a fansite.

At this point, my only stance is to beg ANet to implement multi-launch and high quality in-town textures into the game itself, and so far I haven't been convinced otherwise. :/ Rose Of Kali 20:25, 31 May 2010 (UTC)

I never said anyone official said it was safe, or that presearing.com was official, presearing.com just shows that we've been around for a long time and the community trusts us. If they added high quality textures in town, they'd want to make it optional, my old laptop couldn't handle Kaineng as it is. My main point was to scroll up and that I've asked the question and Gaile is addressing it with the devs. Matty 21:43, 31 May 2010 (UTC)

Would be great to get that answer. I really hope they seriously review this situation. I know that multi-launch is far from an expected feature in a game, and HQ textures would obviously be optional (as are all other graphical enhancements in the current menu). But simply judging by the number of players using these mods, and the fact that ANet kind of stays in a gray area of sorts concerning the legality of using these, I think it would be really nice of them to actually put these into the game and remove any doubts and safety concerns. As it is now, they keep saying that they won't ban you for using these, but under the condition that you use the "vanilla" versions of these mods, yet they will never ever validate whether the version you're using is "vanilla" or not, so there is always a level of uncertainty and risk that really doesn't need to be there. These two features aren't something complicated to implement, and they've been tested up and down and across at this point, so really, I don't see any reasons not to put them into the game and make all of us happy. Heck, in both cases it sounds like all they need to do is remove an extra restriction that is currently in place (make an option check-mark in the case of KSMod), unless there's something I don't know.

My only point from the previous comment is that the information you presented was in itself insufficient to draw any conclusions about whether or not it is "safe" to use your program now, not last month or last year, but now that the ban hammer if swinging harder than ever and it looks like ANet might start implementing (if they haven't already) more sophisticated bot detection methods. I'm not saying it's a bad/illegal mod or anything like that, I'm just saying that right now there's no way to tell 100% that you can't get banned when using this, and this applies to all other supposedly "legal" mods out there. Rose Of Kali 22:07, 31 May 2010 (UTC)

What I can tell you is that if you use tainted versions of multi-launch you risk account theft, which may trigger a code45 account lockdown when anet suspects account theft and possibly lose all your items. The same goes for KSmod. I can also tell you that some people modify tex-mod and KSmod and build a botting function around it in an attempt to "disguise" botting behind these legit programs and inject dll's through them. Also just because someone said that they got banned for sing KSmod and multi-lauch, they may not be disclosing other "mods" they are also using, such as bots. As gaile said, people do lie. As long as you downloaded it from guru, or from the link on the wiki mainspace you shouldn't worry about getting banned or account theft. If you downloaded it from some shady MMO forum that advertises bots, exploits and tools well... anything can happen. --Lania Elderfire 19:46, 1 June 2010 (UTC)

Matty's Multi-loader is the only one I use. I have never had an issue with it. -- Wyn talk 23:45, 1 June 2010 (UTC)

Is that the one on Google code thingy? Rose Of Kali 00:05, 2 June 2010 (UTC)

No, the one on Google is relatively new and young, Matty's is http://www.guildwarsmagic.com (2 years old) it can be decompiled though, but not so easily recompiled, which is more the point, it's harder for anyone to change mine and recompile a tainted version. Matty 00:45, 2 June 2010 (UTC)

(Reset indent) I have not forgotten this discussion or the request that started the thread. I am working with the team on getting the best and most complete information possible on this. Thanks for your patience, everyone! -- Gaile 03:59, 8 June 2010 (UTC)

This is a question directed to Matty or anyone who knows... I noticed that Matty's multilaunch program attempts to connect to the IP address 96.31.65.244 twice per launch which is the IP for the guildwarsmagic.com domain on port 80. Is this some kind of an update check? I just want to make sure it's nothing malicious, though I do have that blocked ^o^. I can't really tell what it is since I don't have a data logger installed on my gaming laptop. --Lania Elderfire 04:53, 8 June 2010 (UTC)

Excellent question, and so I've written this page up for you Multi Loader is Connecting to GuildWarsMagic.com !?!?!?. Matty 18:29, 8 June 2010 (UTC)

"As of version 4 this also contains an emergency kill switch that can turn the multi loader off, this is only there in case ANet policy changes suddenly to ban accounts using Multi Loaders (a safety feature in the event of the apocalypse). -- I want the program to be as safe as possible." It's a noble idea, but this, and the other phoning home features could well risk being picked up as suspicious. Plus if Anet do end up banning people for using it, the damage is already done and this emergency kill switch is akin to closing the gate after the horse has bolted. That, and it's not really up to you to police the users using it, regardless of Anet's terms and conditions, that's up to the individual user if they want to get themselves banned or not, or what they can or can't run on their own computer. Not to mention the fact your site could get hacked and someone send pretty much whatever they want through to the end users without their realizing it. Lastly, this info should have been made available from the start, not after the behavior was noticed by another user. Though the info is out there now and others know to block it from doing that, just in case. Anyways that's just how I feel about it, nothing personal or anything, heck I want multi launching abilities as much as anyone, heh. Tylenol Jones 20:14, 8 June 2010 (UTC)

The information is all in the forums, I've just reorganized it, the site lost some information since I rebuilt it. It's not my job to police, but if 30 people ever suddenly get banned from using it without warning, I'm sure the the next 5,000 people who get the message before being banned will appreciate it. Plus I'm not policing any individual, it's just a global off. I certainly would hate to stand aside watching people use my program being banned and doing nothing about it. As for getting hacked, the kill switch just says if MSG is emergency, close program, the other messages are just text displayed in a box. The update, well that's existed from the very first version where is was a requirement, not an option, and it always asks you if you want to update or not. And in the end Version 4 "should" run properly if you choose to block it with your firewall. But I always do appreciate feedback Matty 01:13, 9 June 2010 (UTC)

Thanks for the info. I'll keep it blocked for now as my paranoia doesn't allow me to let things connect to the net silently. You should see my block list, it's super long; I don't even let the system auto update the system clock. --Lania 22:19, 11 June 2010 (UTC)

If only for peace of mind, go ahead. In this case, it wont make much difference, but down the road, with something, could very well save you a lot of trouble. --The preceding unsigned comment was added by User:Matty (talk).

Account Reinstatment Question

Quick Question

IF you unknowingly had a tainted version of GW multi launcher, KSmod, or TexMod, can you get your account back, because I'm still trying to figure out why I got banned. Paul

I suggest you look at Gaile's final response here. G R E E N E R 20:31, 31 May 2010 (UTC)

I don't know why I got banned though. I'm always @ my computer when I play GW, and I didn't notice any differences or any advantages to my account or character. Paul

So the key take-away here is: "I didn't mean to cheat, I had a bad version of that unapproved (because ArenaNet never approves them), "use at your own risk" third-party program." I won't comment on your personal situation because I believe it may well be true and I'm truly sorry if you were blocked because someone else placed unwanted and unheralded elements into a program you thought was benign. But how could the Support Team determine who was telling the truth when giving such a explanation? And if that were considered an acceptable excuse, don't you see a whole lot of people who willfully and intentionally cheated would say those words to get their accounts back? After which they'd bot again, cost the team more time and effort to ban them, irritate players, damage the game economy further, and so forth.

I'm sure you can see why that explanation, or that excuse, cannot be accepted as a prompt for reinstatement. I really disturbs me that people who did not intend to cheat have been caught in the net. And we know that may be the case. But honestly, I can't see a way to address such situations without opening the floodgates for a whole lot of cheaters to weasel their way back into the game. -- Gaile 21:24, 2 June 2010 (UTC)

Wouldn't it be wiser to give the benefit of the doubt to the person who paid money for the game?

So, since virtually every guilty party will claim he had innocent intentions, maybe you're essentially saying "Let everyone continue to bot, forever, because someone, somewhere may not have known his third-party program -- which he used as his own risk -- was tainted with a cheat program." Or perhaps you are saying "He paid for the game, he's entitled to cheat if he wants to."

We cannot tell intent. We cannot look people in the eyes and read their souls. We cannot say "You will remain banned" and yet say to another person with exactly the same account profile, "You seem like a nice person, we're going to let you off this time." It's only right and logical to make a firm line in the sand, instead of one that waxes and wanes depending on interpretations of "intention" or one agent's belief in one player's plea over another who, while not as adept in writing or not as skilled as plea-making, may be equally innocent. :-/

Would I rather give the benefit of the doubt? Yes! You darn right I would! I spend every day trying to turn a "no" into a "yes," and I do that a lot. But do I think we can give the benefit of the doubt in these cases? No, not very often at all. I regret that fact, but I have come to understand it. We are looking at 6 million accounts and rising and with that scale, it's important to have clear, consistent, and fair rules. -- Gaile 03:53, 8 June 2010 (UTC)

Oh I didn't write that above statement about the benefit of the doubt. I agree with what you're saying in terms of practicality though. Paul

Hello Ms. Gray

I was wondering if you could check out my ticket if you have the time. [Incident: 100601-000516] Much appreciated. (please don't use my real name on here) Kbar 03:16, 1 June 2010 (UTC)

This is June 2nd. You opened the ticket on June 1st. If you truly need my assistance, please wait three business days before making the request, as I have often asked. If you update this thread to say you still need assistance (not before June 4th), please give me some idea of the issue within the ticket, so that I can prioritize my schedule. Thank you for understanding. -- Gaile 20:51, 2 June 2010 (UTC)

sure np. thx for the quick reply.Kbar 21:34, 3 June 2010 (UTC)

Hi. I would still like to have assistance. =D The Incident number is the same as in the above post, and I haven't really received a response from the senior staff members. I don't mean to be hasty, but I was wondering if you could look at the ticket. It has to deal with 3rd party applications. Thanks again. Kbar 06:18, 8 June 2010 (UTC)

TexMod (again)

Perhaps this should be on the Support Issues talk page, but I don't want it to be mistaken for griping about getting banned. :p

TexMod by itself is allowed, and cartography mod is apparently allowed too. However, what about texture mods that provide specific advantages in competitive settings? For example, the following things possible with TexMod are advantageous in PvP settings.

• Adding a spirit range radius to the compass
• Changing skill animations to be impossible to not notice (solid-colored glow on Frenzy, for example)
• 50% health indicators on health bars for WoH
• Highlighting presents in snowball arena

Is this permitted? --128.171.41.201 19:20, 2 June 2010 (UTC)

I think you just gave yourself an answers.. Since you're using the word advantage, it's obvious that you get stuff that other people do not in a competitive setting. Though I'm not Gaile, I do think it's illigal and ban-able..Dutch Sunshine 19:28, 2 June 2010 (UTC)

Indeed, but AFAIK, there's no way to detect serverside what .tpf is loaded. If this is prohibited, there's no way to enforce it without prohibiting TexMod in general. --128.171.41.201 19:35, 2 June 2010 (UTC)

Those are slight advantages. It has been stated before that the majority of the "benefits" could be achieved with a piece of marked tape on the monitor. Plus, any hard core high end PvPer would be able to do all of this in their head anyway. Kairu 01:53, 3 June 2010 (UTC)

Agreed, it does give an advantage, but as said, no different to tape on the monitor, or lining up UI elements to mark distances/amounts. At most it could be considered unsportsmanlike, but really only as a low level. More experienced players, as was also said, would do the same thing in their head. So perhaps not even unsportsmanlike, more.. a learning aid. Tylenol Jones 04:14, 3 June 2010 (UTC)

What? Slight? Unsportsmanlike? I don't even play PvP, but I'd kill for that in PvE. You know that little "x" next to the selected target's bar? Well, it screws up any kind of 50/50 visual recognition I used to have before they put that bugger into the game, so I've given up on even trying to closely hit a SoLS or whatever plethora of other skills that depend on the 50% HP bar. Oh, and you know what else sucks? Bringing Frozen Soil to counter res-crazy mobs, and placing it 2 feet too far... And, well, etc. etc. And no, I'm not sticking post-its onto my screen. Sure this is unsportsmanlike in PvP. I also think it's cheating, regardless of whether it's done in code or sticky paper. Rose Of Kali 07:09, 3 June 2010 (UTC)

I usually save my WoH for people WHO ARE GOING TO DIE RIGHT NOW when I use it anyway, I don't bother with it when they're ~50% anyway. -- Tha Reckoning 07:32, 3 June 2010 (UTC)

Any unfair advantage should be removed. Since TexMod can be used for at least one thing that gives unfair advantage over other players, ANet should make anything to prevent its use. Even if they had to implement their own texmod that limits its usage to a certain set of textures only.MithTalk 12:01, 3 June 2010 (UTC)

I don't thing you guys understand. It is either a) allowed or b) unallowed. They are not going to implement their own, they have no real way of detecting it, it's not going to happen. This tool has been allowed for years without much if any complaint from PvP or PvE users. I'm interested to know, have any of you who are condemning it actually used it? The advantage isn't that great, and as a user who has used it constantly for the past few years I can say that you don't actually need it to have these "advantages", but I want it because of it's visual appeal. If the "advantages" gained are so minute that they can be achieved with a piece of tape on the screen all you are doing is making life harder for those of us who use it for other things, like changing the look of the UI. Please, find another cause, because the only thing you could possibly achieve is killing a legitimate sub culture of Guild Wars and getting many users banned. Kairu 18:18, 3 June 2010 (UTC)

Also, I have to ask this. Unfair advantages? Like hero's or insignias not being retroactively applied to Prophesies? Kairu 18:20, 3 June 2010 (UTC)

I don't see how you're going to highlight people using certain skills with a piece of tape. --128.171.41.206 18:24, 3 June 2010 (UTC)

Silly poster, a piece of tape is the equivalent of replacing cast animation textures with big words stating the name of the spell. It's no different at all. How can you not see this? My piece of tape, for example, shows me when Diversion is being cast. -Faer 19:02, 3 June 2010 (UTC)

Mind showing me this texmod package that makes every skill show the title of the skill? The only ones I can find make very specific skills "look cooler" not make every single skill easily identifiable. Kairu 21:43, 3 June 2010 (UTC)

Yes, retroactive changed should have been made to Prophecies. Also, any piece of equipment allowed in PvP that cannot replicated with the PvP item cration panel should cease to exist. Things like the Zaishen Menagerie that allow PvP characters to get any animal should be the rule. Either all can do something, or no one should. MithTalk 22:25, 3 June 2010 (UTC)

To that note I feel I must point out, Texmod is something everyone can use given any amount of technological background or any state their game is in. If you feel that texmod is giving others some sort of magical ability, use it yourself before you start complaining. I'm wondering how many users against Texmod do use it or have used it before. The "advantage" really is just to the extent of a piece of tape on top of the screen.

Look around, there are even users (me included) who are attempting to re-create Texmod to allow more flexibility and ease of use. Anyway, all this argument is moot. Texmod has already been deemed acceptable for use. The only reason this is coming up is because botters were crying Texmod (which by the way would not set off any type of bot alarms), and while users were looking up what Texmod was they half understood the concept and started screaming "I SEE AN ADVANTAGE I DON'T USE!".

The limitations of Texmod make it impossible to gain any "real" advantage. Even if you make Skill A impossible to miss, you still have to know what it does, how to counter it, it's cast time if you want to interrupt it, and what to do once it has been cast. And if you knew that, you would be able to tell from the sounds and visuals (through prior experience) that it was cast anyway. Texmod isn't a replacement for skill, it simply lets us edit textures; making things pretty and saving our screens from having tape on them. Is that so bad? Kairu 23:15, 3 June 2010 (UTC)

TexMod only gives an advantage to lower skilled players, higher skilled players don't need what it provides because they have a feel for the game and can do what these things provide from experience. You'd be hard pressed to find a top level PvPer who thinks TexMod matters, I'd imagine. DarkNecrid 06:07, 4 June 2010 (UTC)

Oh, so PvP is only for top level players? Goddammit, so that's why I could never get into it. Now I know, I needed TexMod! Rose Of Kali 10:17, 4 June 2010 (UTC)

(Reset indent) Wrong, Kali, you need tape! -- Tha Reckoning 10:26, 4 June 2010 (UTC)

Once again. Tried it? You can seriously gain any "magical advantage" with tape. There is no package to make you a better player, all it does is make things pretty (or ugly if the package builder has no style). There is no package at this time to make every (if not only one or two) skill easily identifiable. It IS NOT possible to make every skill show exactly what it is, and you would still have to learn even if such a package existed. I'm done with this conversation because obviously those that want it gone don't want to actually listen to others. Have fun in ignorance, I'll be playing the game with Texmod now. Kairu 12:52, 4 June 2010 (UTC)

One things is aesthetic changes, and another is a big "This guy is using X" sign. Without modifications, no mater how good you are, many skill animations would go unnoticed in a huge crowd of enemies. That's also part of the game. MithTalk 13:18, 4 June 2010 (UTC)

Omai! A civilized response! ^_^ I understand that concern, but if you look above in my text walls, I mention that there is no such change available. While it is theoretically possible to make certain skills more noticeable, we can't change models. What this means is that we can't make things larger then they originally are. While this a) means that we can't make player heads gigantic, it also means b) we can't go outside the bounds of the skill animation's model. This means that if a skill has no animation, we can't add one. If it has a mostly small animation, the most we could do is make that small area completely green.

I would like to also mention, there is no real way to make skill animations literally say what they are, there just isn't any room. Kairu 13:37, 4 June 2010 (UTC)

I was trolling, actually. Your response was good fun though =D -- Tha Reckoning 18:47, 4 June 2010 (UTC)

You're right that you can't change models, but it's certainly easy enough to make things impossibly conspicuous. For example, this took about five minutes to make. (It's frenzy, in case you didn't recognize it.)

http://img44.imageshack.us/img44/4262/gw042q.jpg --128.171.41.205 19:01, 4 June 2010 (UTC)

I have to confess, I had to look up the skill, but I'm not a PvPer or a Warrior. Anyway, the benefit of that edit may seem huge, but players shout when opponents use skills like that. Once you know they are using it you just pay attention and you can tell when the skill ends. (I am somewhat assuming here, since I don't know what frenzy looks like normally, but I am guessing it's not invisible) Kairu 21:33, 4 June 2010 (UTC)

Frenzy is pretty distinctive IMO, but that comes from PvP experience, though I haven't PvPed much since late 2006, so I can't tell apart a lot of the new skills--- don't really pay too much attention to those things in PvE apparently so my brain doesn't record it :-). --Lania Elderfire 21:38, 4 June 2010 (UTC)

This is my point. It doesn't give you any type of advantage you can't gain from experience. Kairu 22:34, 4 June 2010 (UTC)

If you are not a PvPer, how do you know the advantages are negligible? elix Omni 09:08, 5 June 2010 (UTC)

Common sense, other players, having friends who only PvP. Years of being a TexMod user. I can do anything that Texmod does "advantage" wise in my head, and when I am on a computer without Texmod that is exactly what I do. But I prefer the prettiness that Texmod provides. I have tried PvP, with Texmod, and I still suck as bad as when i didn't use it. Like I said, it doesn't give you magical powers. Kairu 18:38, 5 June 2010 (UTC)

Yeah, it's not a big difference, but it is a difference. Like those items you can find in PRophecies and Factions and can't be replicated. Or animals before the Zaishen Menagerie. Such differences are to be removed. MithTalk 01:13, 6 June 2010 (UTC)

Lol, I like how you are using in game examples to say we need to ban Texmod. I must point out, the amount of "advantage" we are talking about here is the equivalent to...... Ok. You have a keyboard. Normally it has no markings on it what so ever. Texmod puts those markings on the keyboard. Helpful? Kinda. If you don't know hot to use the keyboard you don't magically gain the knowledge, if you do know how to use the keyboard the markings don't really help. Yes, if you know what a keyboard is, but don't remember the key locations it is helpful, but it doesn't give you the ability to touch type.

Like I said above, Texmod has been around for years, no one has cared about it's use in all those years. Most of the people who care are the ones who have stumbled over it after the bannings and don't fully understand it. The skills in Guild Wars are not meant to be hard to spot, they really are meant to be visual queues for you to notice that the stance is being used, the skill is being cast, etc. I'm sure you know how to look at a straight line and estimate the half way point (or as I said, use a piece of tape! Seriously, it looks horrendous but it works!), spirit line is roughly double and a half the radius of the aggro bubble (piece of tape anyone?). These advantages are not really advantages. If people are using Texmod for them, they will just move on to a piece of tape. Then what, demand that ANet. require a picture of the screen with a current newspaper before anyone can play the game?

A real unfair advantage in a game is something like a wall hack, a speed doubler. I hate to do this, but look at WoW, they literally have a system built into their game that allows users to display hundreds of slots on the screen. That is an advantage, but it isn't going to make or break a battle.

It is the type of difference that is so small, no one really cares. And no one did care. All of the sudden users from all over the place are calling Texmod bad, and I have to wonder if they actually understand what it is they are condemning. Are they after it because botters say they were banned for using Texmod and think that it is similar to botting? Or because they looked it up and misunderstood what it's capabilities are? Hell, I could make it turn every skill animation in the game to a different color but it's not going to make my like any easier is it, it's just going to be one ugly and frustrating experience.

Yeah, that's a huge wall of text, sorry! Kairu 02:25, 6 June 2010 (UTC)

As Kairu said, the changes TexMod can make are small and doesn't really give any player an unfair advantage. I use TexMod for a long time (Panda pet ftw), but if it would be removed I wouldn't actually mind since I am not any better when I use it.

Regarding the changes to skill animations.. lolwut? If you would change all the skill animation like the one shown above (frenzy) you think it would give you an advantage?? C'mon just imagine that.. it would be more confusing than anything if all players around would be surrounded by a bunch of re-colored pixels like in the above picture.

The only advantage it gives me are the spirit range and 50% health mark and I can ofc make those things myself without TexMod as said above. I would never cheat or bot in any game but TexMod is just NOT that. ***EAGLEMUT*** TALK 07:55, 6 June 2010 (UTC)

I'm glad that Kairu feels strongly enough about the issue that he's willing to try to smear me. However, the point of posting here was to get some kind of official opinion on the issue. Debating it is a bit of a waste until Gaile responds.

Also, If you were interested in my experience with the matter, I think I'm qualified. (The IPs were me posting from class.) --Lemming 10:24, 6 June 2010 (UTC)

I'm sorry if it came off that way. I was simply stating my experiences and opinions. I was not trying to smear you and I hope there are no hard feelings. I'm a somewhat argumentative person, and I tend to take things a little far, but nothing was expressly directed at anyone. I sincerely hope you took no offense, however I still stand by what I said. Kairu 16:50, 6 June 2010 (UTC)

Multi-Launch

There are several "multi-launch" programs available, many with confusingly similar names. ArenaNet team members have commented that some third-party programs have been seen to be benign in their original form, meaning that the original version of the program does not offer cheats or give gameplay advantage and its use would not prompt account sanctions (like a termination). However, I do not know which of the many "multi-launch" programs may fall into that "benign" category, and which do not. I believe that these programs are coded substantially differently, and some, even in their original form, are designed to add cheat or bot capabilities or to give players a gameplay advantage. Sometimes that capability is hidden, but it's there. And if that's the case, then using such a program will put the account in jeopardy of closure.

As you know, we do not "approve" third-party programs. We can't possibly do so, for many reasons. So please be aware that a post on this page, a comment on a fan forum, an alleged quote from an ArenaNet staff member (which can be taken out of context or entirely misrepresented), or a testimonial from another player does not guarantee that any specific program is "A-Ok."

I am posting this -- with the support of the Community Team -- because I can see discussions about different programs that allow the launching of multiple copies of the client. Many of these programs use the generic term "multi-launch" in their name so it is really confusing! Bottom line: As always, the use of any third-party program is done on an "at your own risk" basis. -- Gaile 19:49, 2 June 2010 (UTC)

Based on this, the fact that many many players use this to transfer items between their different accounts (from the time when character slots were not purchasable), and the fact that you have yourself admitted to using a multi-launch tool to transfer items between accounts, is there any chance that ANet might add this functionality to the client itself? If not, what is the reason? Thanks. Rose Of Kali 20:15, 2 June 2010 (UTC)

I have never used a third-party program, including multi-launch. I have two computers -- I have no need for such a program. I also live in fear that such a program will have unhealthy "additives" and I eshew all forms of third-party programs. If you can tell me where you got this misinformation, I will be happy to correct it at its source. -- Gaile 20:44, 2 June 2010 (UTC)

Thank you for the clarification, sorry I must've misread something. Can you still answer my other questions? Would ANet be "nice" enough to tailor to the players who do not have multiple computers, yet have paid for multiple copies of Guild Wars? Is there some coding or other issue making it difficult or impossible to integrate this functionality into the GW client? It is my understanding that currently the client actually performs a check to see if a copy of it is already running, thus preventing another copy from being opened. Can this be removed? Can GW be made to "officially" and safely multi-launch itself? Thank you. Rose Of Kali 21:01, 2 June 2010 (UTC)

I'll answer your question with a question: Pretend you get to set the priorities for development. You have a great opportunity to add new content, like the War in Kryta. Or you have the opportunity to let people play two copies of the game. You can do only one, not both, because all resources -- including human -- are finite. Where would you put the priority? Where do you think the majority of players would put the priority? -- Gaile 21:06, 2 June 2010 (UTC)

While that is a somewhat valid question, I don't think the two are comparable. Again, many many players use multi-launch at the risk or being banned if they don't realize that their copy is somehow "tainted." Also, ANet is sending a somewhat ambiguous message, by saying that it's ok to do so, if you use an "untainted" version of the mod, however they understandably cannot clarify what versions are "untainted." This means that some players will still think they are safe, and may fall into the trap of not realizing that they are putting themselves into jeopardy. Also, it takes much much more time and effort to create any content than it would (in my opinion) to add this functionality, described, coded, tested, and made public by players and amateur/advanced coders out there. Third: no content will matter if you get banned for using something that you thought was "safe" because ANet itself said that certain versions of it were safe.

In the end, by allowing certain versions of this mod, you are putting into danger those players who cannot tell the difference between the safe and unsafe versions, and end up in trouble when they shouldn't be. Your counter-question doesn't quite match the problem. You see, if you 100% dis-allowed any kind of modding, players would be more clear about when they are or aren't putting themselves in jeopardy. As it is now, it is ambiguous. Thus, I would personally give up one or two quests or NPCs for the sake of knowing that I am really 100% safe doing something that is supposedly allowed. Rose Of Kali 21:18, 2 June 2010 (UTC)

Also, this quote by you on this very page: "I really disturbs me that people who did not intend to cheat have been caught in the net." (Bolded by me.) Wouldn't you want to prevent that? Rose Of Kali 21:32, 2 June 2010 (UTC)

Rose, if you are really super ultra desperate, you can always use a virtual machine to duplicate a second computer like some user does somewhere on this page. I recommend the free VMWare Player. elix Omni 21:44, 2 June 2010 (UTC)

Aren't virtual machines kinda like, RAM hogs? I've used GWx2 and Matty asia's multi-launch without issues. --Lania Elderfire 21:57, 2 June 2010 (UTC)

(Edit conflict; posting as written.) First I read the usual, "How long can it take?" or "It'll take time, but it's worth it" comments, the ones we see daily as people make their personal suggestions for the game. I understand your viewpoint, even while I respectfully disagree with it. But when I read "In the end, by allowing certain versions of this mod, you are... I must point out: We doing nothing. We are telling people who use the program that they do so at their own risk and without support from us; we are being very, very vocal about what the risks may be. We cannot verify each and every version of each and every program. The devs have not chosen to add the elements of this mod to the game because, one can assume, they feel doing so would impact upon, perhaps cause the sacrifice of, other elements they consider to be higher priority or more beneficial to the community at large.

And ask yourself this: Where do such requests end? Player A wants this one mod added. Player B wants another. The list could be endless, all sorts of mods and "utilities" and "improvements" that are time consuming to design, develop, implement, and test; or which may be impossible or impractical to add; which require research to vet and communications to justify as far as acceptance or denial; which require staffing to support; or which -- perhaps most important of all -- the development team may simply feel are inappropriate additions to the game. I understand your suggestion and I do see how it related to Support Issues, as well. The support impact could be considerable, but ultimately the decision about additions to the game rests with the Live Team. You may wish to address a new thread with this suggestion to the Live Team, specifically to Lead Designer Linsey Murdock. Because obviously, I am not the decision maker about this. Never was, never will be. :) I do think I see the situation clearly, though, and from multiple viewpoints and I assure you I do fully understand what you've said. -- Gaile 22:03, 2 June 2010 (UTC)

Well, thanks for the reply. I can see where you're coming from, but I guess I just wanted to hear that "definite" answer that you do understand the situation, and that there are indeed no plans to add this. Please, do at least consider this for GW2. ;) Rose Of Kali 22:16, 2 June 2010 (UTC)

Oy! I may have stuck my foot in it. That's what happens when I write a wall o' text. :) I don't mean to say "This isn't planned." I can say only, "I do not know that it's planned" because, well, that's the truth. Dev Team members may have more to say. As for GW2, I'd suggest you suggest... errr... that you make a suggestion about that! -- Gaile 22:24, 2 June 2010 (UTC)

Oy! You mean hope isn't dead yet? :O Well, I have made the suggestion for GW2 a while ago. :) What's the best way to get this across to the Live Team? (Test Krewe, or is there a better way? Linsey's pages have been locked for like an eternity now...) Rose Of Kali 22:30, 2 June 2010 (UTC)

P.S. I'm really happy that I got your attention on this issue, to be honest, that's all I really wanted. :) Given what I've seen on this page, you will at least investigate this, because I know you care about your players, and thank you for that. :D Rose Of Kali 22:46, 2 June 2010 (UTC)

@ Lania. Yep, quite a memory hog (depending on how much memory is given to it, which being as it will be running Windows a second time, on top of GW, is going to have to be quite a bit). Though with all the fears of these multi-launchers it's probably the safest way to go, short of using a second machine, as the other alternative would be editing parts of the registry and we all know how well that can work out for anyone who's not familiar with doing so, hehe. I use VirtualBox with an old version of WinXP installed on it, and it does run GW surprisingly well, and considering how VirtualBox handles 3D, GW looks surprisingly good too. It's certainly quite playable, though it is limited I think to 800x600 display when 3D is involved. But for moving items back and forth, or running characters on another account, it works a treat. It does tend to be slow to load each area though, which can cause the issue when the second player ends up in their own instance of a mission etc. if you skip a particular cutscene before it's loaded fully. Also security wise, I've seen it said elsewhere on the net that it's a good idea to install anti-virus software and so on, on the VM OS even if they're on the host, which a lot might not think about doing that, due to thinking the hosts security will protect them on the VM too, which I hear it doesn't in a number of cases.

I did want to say again how I'd be very happy if Anet allowed the client to run more than once instance. But that doesn't quite seem fair now Gaile has replied to all that and given some good points, can't really argue against the old good of the many vs good of the one thing, unless you're Vulcan, and I don't think Vulcan's play GW much. I guess we should be grateful they're even updating GW at all at this stage, after all, we get skill updates, fixes, War in Kryta, freebie hero golem. WoW get million dollars worth of ad campaigns.. for a Mohawk grenade.. lol.

I'm holding off still on considering a third party multi-launcher though. On account of the fact Anet have said they are/may/might be banning in waves to hide their detection methods. Which could well mean all those using these multi-launcher programs could get caught next (including VM's, which would suck!), and simply escaped the first wave, which may have been looking for other signs. Tylenol Jones 23:43, 2 June 2010 (UTC)

I have to point out that it was Kirk that reversed that statement; the Vulcan view is that the good of the many does outweigh the good of the few. Or the one. elix Omni 00:52, 3 June 2010 (UTC)

Although I certainly want a valid option to multi-load, one can also see how it might create a greater disbalance. Let's say, for example, faction farming. You dual-load the game, and add your secondary account to the vanquish. And that's just one example. --190.0.10.72 01:01, 3 June 2010 (UTC)

@Felix, Erk, yep, you're right! My bad. Being a big fan of Star Trek myself, I should know better than to make a Trek related comment without first checking my facts (fears angering Trek fans more than angering religious people). My apologies :D Tylenol Jones 02:28, 3 June 2010 (UTC)

I can't see them adding this as a feature of GW1, I believe the reason it's prevented is due to the updating mechanism. Since the gw.dat updates while the game is running, the game can not run 2 instances of 1 gw.dat at a time. In the end if they enabled it as a supported feature, there would be so much demand on support "why, how, what...". It's much easier to say it's not support and use apps at your own risk. That's my view from a technical/support point of view. Matty 06:58, 3 June 2010 (UTC)

Although I agree with much of what Gaile said, it does kinda skirt the issue, for example no one is asking for a limitless number of checks done on a limitless number of mods, instead people are mainly asking for 1 version of a multi-launcher (such as GWx2) and the version of texmod which are considered safe to be used by support, which won't get us banned. I haven't cheated on this game, I have ran no bots or no automation on my account at any time, in accordance with the EULA. Texmod and GWx2 do not, as far as I can see, break the EULA in anyplace as the use of 3rd party software has always been "at your own risk" but never "use equals a ban if you haven't used it to cheat/bot". It is this blanket approach which is bothering me now. If your statement as a support manager is that if you cheat/bot you get blocked, thats fair enough as one can make an informed choice to cheat/bot; if however your statement, as it seems to be, is if you use a 3rd party software for reasons that would nt result in a ban but the software happens to have hidden functionality which may be used for cheating, which one never uses, we will still terminate your account. Then that is completely unfair as it turns the use of such programs into a mine field for many genuine and trustworthy players who have invested heavily into your product. I personally use GWx2 V4.1 as I have 2 accounts (and 1 computer) and need to use it for object transfer without giving use of my account over to a 3rd party, further to this I use texmod v0.9b for use on many of my projects on the wiki in updating armour galleries and the like (as Emily is inundated with more pressing work on gw2). This has all been done in good faith and as far as I can see neither program offers any form of cheat/bot access, but now I am having to rethink the use of these programs which is directly affecting my ability to both enjoy the 2 accounts I bought (which i wouldn't have bought if I had of known at the time that multi-launcher use would eventually end up in this quagmire) or to continue work on projects on the wiki which frankly need done. I am assuming that before a block is placed on an account, that the actions of that account are reviewed and it isn't simply a case of "oh they have that 3rd party software version, block them" as that's a rather ham-handed approach to take to peoples accounts. -- Salome 13:13, 3 June 2010 (UTC)

(Reset indent) I'd be careful of GWx2, it's not recommended as it does break the EULA by editing the gw.exe file. Of the few solutions I know of to the issue, I would put GWx2 at the top of the risk list. Matty 09:26, 11 June 2010 (UTC)

I strongly disagree that GWx2 is risky; tens of thousands of players run GWx2 without issue.

AFAIK, GWx2 does not alter the program file. On launch, it fakes out the registry, so that players can run two different gw.exe (linked to two different gw.dat files). Another multi-load technique (e.g. GWMutliLaunch) uses virtual instances that allow an arbitrary number of Guild Wars to run simultaneously. Despite my general privacy paranoia, I trust these techniques as long as I can validate the application file's checksum. Running a virtual instance of your computer is safer still (e.g. using VMWare), since essentially you are just running a copy of your own computer.

Reading between the official lines, any multi-loader is unlikely to result in an ANet suspension so long as ANet allows multiple sign-ons from the same IP address. While two accounts make it easier to manage inventory, in-game trades, and farm/map solo... humans aren't able to run two accounts more efficiently than one.

On the other hand, I do not trust the multi-launchers that require my computer to regularly connect with a third-party website. I have no idea what that website is learning from my computer while I play. (Still, I haven't read of any security or privacy breaches linked to any known-good executables using this technique.)  — Tennessee Ernie Ford (TEF) 04:32, 12 June 2010 (UTC)

The problem I have with GWx2 is the fact that it's hosted on the same site as a bot. For that reason all links to it were removed from guru. It's a kind of "guilt by association" thing. And last I checked, it does alter the program file. To verify, run a clean copy of the exe, then run one with GWx2. If both files are not the same afterwards, then it does indeed make alterations to the exe file.-- Pyron Sy 05:09, 12 June 2010 (UTC)

Editing the registry is only one step required to run 2 instances of Guild Wars, you also MUST handle the mutex. GWx2 does this by editing the gw.exe file to rename the mutex, so the mutexes don't collide. This is the risk as the file is altered and if ANet ever checks the files, it may cause problems. --The preceding unsigned comment was added by User:Matty (talk).

Matty, not sure you should be editing other people's comments by removing things they've said like that, pretty sure it's frowned upon on a talk page, regardless how right or wrong someone is. The whole point is ALL these programs are risky (including yours) until Anet give an official response and safe URL's and versions that they'll allow. Tylenol Jones 18:07, 12 June 2010 (UTC)

I don't expect that ANet will ever provide a definitive answer. They can't be responsible for third party programs, unless they test/host the code themselves. However, since ANet allows two humans to play from the same IP address, it seems highly unlikely that they will want to spend any time looking at multiple logins from the same machine. The risk to the game from bots and real-money traders is just too great to waste resources on multiple human logons.

If GWx2 really modifies the gw.exe on launch, then that makes it riskier than I thought. Still, I would trust GWx2 because of its longevity. (Note: The primary host and the guru guide both point to sites that should be as safe and bot-free as any other 3rd party programs.)

I trust true virtualization techniques because they run exact copies of the official software. I don't have any reason to trust techniques that require communication with a 3rd (or 4th party site) on launch, since I have no way to tell if that site's servers become compromised.

(By the way, the edit to my earlier post looks like a copy/paste typo rather than an intentional edit.)  — Tennessee Ernie Ford (TEF) 18:44, 12 June 2010 (UTC)

The visualization method is the same I use. Legit Windows running legit GW, and for all intents and purposes two separate machines, and surprisingly, works well considering the low end 3D support VM software provides. GWx2 does AFAIK make some change to the file, Matty is correct about that and I mentioned that some time ago (further up the page in the other section). I think as of right now, Multi-Launcher, and Matty's Multi-Loader, don't edit the exe itself, that just seemed to be an early "fix" from GWx2's days. Someone did mention for the recent update on the talk page that one of them crashed now at a certain point, though I think that was simply coincidence. As for his edit, my bad then :) Tylenol Jones 19:14, 12 June 2010 (UTC)

Tylenol, I'm not sure what I in theory removed? I didn't delete anything of anyones that I know of. Sorry for not signing, I'm always editing in the ~ ~ ~ ~, how do any of you remember it? Matty 00:26, 13 June 2010 (UTC)

Wiki's keep page histories of any and all edits, and it showed up in the difference between your edit and the previous one before it. Example. Tylenol Jones 04:09, 13 June 2010 (UTC)

That's the line I was trying to quote and dispute but could later no longer find, perhaps I cut instead of copied, I'm unsure. How do you find that changes page? That I'd really like to be able to find. I'm also sorry, there was no intention of modifying anything of anyone elses. Matty 14:24, 13 June 2010 (UTC)

Well what I do is just go to the Recent Changes page, which shows everything that's added, changed, removed etc. on the wiki, or just the watch list if I only want to see pages I'm watching. Any pages I'm watching will appear bold, then click on the (diff) or # changes link to see what's new since I last looked, and can go back of forth to older/newer edits. Or by looking at a users contributions page, handy for adding unsigned sigs, lol. There might be better ways to do it that others know about, but considering how large some of these pages get, it seems to be the quickest way to see the differences that I know of. :) Tylenol Jones 14:49, 13 June 2010 (UTC)

Your "Go forth and sin no more" policy

From: New Account

Gaile, you said above that

• "We do not automatically ban a new account that someone creates after he or she has been banned. If that account is involved in an infraction, naturally it is subject to a suspension or to closure (termination). But if someone was banned (account terminated), if he purchases a new account and starts afresh, and if the record on the new account remains clean, we would very, very seldom take action on the new account."

Is this 100% true? If I were to link this said new account to my ncsoft account, which my account that was permanently banned due to botting/third party programs is linked to, will this still apply? Or even for future GW2 accounts (linking my banned gw account to my gw2 acc), so I will be able to receive the "HoM Bonuses" and still have my character names? --dark chaos 21:45, 2 June 2010 (UTC)

I believe it's been stated that banned accounts cannot link to GW2. It might change in the future, but I doubt it. Your characters are dead, and their descendants are too. elix Omni 21:50, 2 June 2010 (UTC)

Correct. As originally stated in 2007, the fact remains (confirmed today) that banned or terminated Guild Wars (game) accounts cannot be linked to Guilds Wars 2. The NCsoft Master Account is outside the game account itself and shouldn't influence linkage between internal Guild Wars and Guild Wars 2 elements.-- Gaile 22:57, 2 June 2010 (UTC)

"As originally stated in 2007, the fact remains (confirmed today) that banned or terminated Guild Wars (game) accounts cannot be linked to Guilds Wars 2."

If i'm not mistaken i've read that the names I use in GW1 will be available/reserved for me in GW2, correct me if i'm wrong.

So my questions are:

1) If a GW1 account is banned, the names are trapped right? I mean nobody else that's playing GW1 can use them, correct?

2) Now, if they are indeed "trapped", what happens with those names once GW2 comes out? Are they still "trapped" because they were used in a GW1 banned account? or will they be "up for grabs"?.

I have multiple reasons for why they should and/or should not remain inaccessible in GW2. I want to keep this as short as possible so I won't mention those reasons.

Also the sentence ""Go forth and sin no more"" is actually funny, should've been the title of the update wherein Shadow Form got nerfed/changed :). Qaletaqa Hania 00:09, 3 June 2010 (UTC)

I believe that the names will not be protected, but I don't really know the mechanics of how it will work. I can inquire, though, because I could see name blockage (or the non-blockage of names) as being a potential support issue, so it's worth investigating.

For what it's worth, speaking as a player, I would be in favor of and would expect that the name reservation system would not protect or lock-down the names of people who have their account(s) terminated. I would imagine that "reserving" a name is a courtesy that would be offered only to players in good standing. However, I'm not the one who would make that decision, so I'll try to find out how it will really work (if that has been determined yet and is suitable for public disclosure, etc., etc.). -- Gaile 00:23, 3 June 2010 (UTC)

I had imagined that the names would only be reserved if and when the account is linked to GW2; I do not believe the GW1 and GW2 databases will be integrated by default. elix Omni 00:49, 3 June 2010 (UTC)

I'd think they would have to be. Otherwise, if you waited a week before buying GW2, your name could be taken by someone on day one.-- Pyron Sy 00:56, 3 June 2010 (UTC)

I think that would be more reasonable than having millions of names taken by people who won't even play GW2. elix Omni 00:59, 3 June 2010 (UTC)

True, but one of the selling points of GW:EN was using the HoM to reserve your name in GW2. If they don't lock out all current character names, then you've got people complaining their name was taken. It's quite a problem, and I'm interested in how they're going to solve it.-- Pyron Sy 01:03, 3 June 2010 (UTC)

I think the way to handle this is to reserve the names on those accounts that have an HoM and are in good standing, and keep them reserved for when the account is linked to a GW2 account, or let the reservation expire a year or so after the release of GW2 if the account is not linked by then. Rose Of Kali 01:23, 3 June 2010 (UTC)

(Reset indent) Reasonable solution Rose, but I think names that weren't locked in GW1 should be reserved indefinitely. Qaletaqa Hania 01:54, 3 June 2010 (UTC)

??? You think those that were not locked should be reserved? That sounds... really bad. :)

Can you tell me why in Dwayna's name we'd show someone the extra consideration of never letting his name be used to Guild Wars 2? Name reservation is a special privilege, not a right. And those who get banned in Guild Wars deserve no special privileges in Guild Wars 2, only the privilege of coming back without being summarily banned. I do believe in a clean slate. I do not believe in locking up names for people who have lost, through their own choices, any special or personal future considerations. -- Gaile 02:15, 3 June 2010 (UTC)

I think there may be a mixup here, Gaile. Sounds like what Qaletaga's trying to say is any name not on a blocked account should be reserved indefinitely. Unless I'm reading something wrong.-- Pyron Sy 02:22, 3 June 2010 (UTC)

Ah, I see, Pyron. Well, I disagree with that position, but everyone is entitled to an opinion! -- Gaile 02:26, 3 June 2010 (UTC)

Just out of interest Gaile, how does this name reservation thing work? Sorry if that's been answered elsewhere. Now I know it involves the Hall of Monuments, but at what stage? Do all your accounts characters names become reserved upon purchase of EOTN, or only after you've discovered the Hall of Monuments (per character), or after completing the expansion on a particular character. Reason I ask is that while I'm obviously very happy at having my PVE characters names reserved. I also have a number of PVP 'Mules' who's names aren't a big deal for me and wouldn't want others prevented from using those in GW2 when the time comes, though I'm unwilling to delete those mules to free up the names for other GW2 users, cause they're great for collecting minipets! Tylenol Jones 02:50, 3 June 2010 (UTC)

Don't think they finalized that yet. But it's not like there's a limited number of names. ^_^ If you "earned" a name reservation, it's yours, I wouldn't worry about it, even if you don't care about the name. :P Though, I think name reservations will have an expiration date, it's just this hunch that I have. Rose Of Kali 06:53, 3 June 2010 (UTC)

Actually, there is a finite number of possible names, limited by the amount of storage that the strings would take up if nothing else. elix Omni 06:57, 3 June 2010 (UTC)

Yes, Cpt. Obvious. Do you really think that will ever become an issue, though? :P Especially with all the I Name I, O Name O, X Name X, Illl Name Illl, and whatever else floating around? Rose Of Kali 08:14, 3 June 2010 (UTC)

"Sounds like what Qaletaga's trying to say is any name not on a blocked account should be reserved indefinitely."

Exactly what I was trying to say.

@Gaile: I think some stuff got lost in translation, my primary language is Dutch, so sry for any mistakes.

"Can you tell me why in Dwayna's name we'd show someone the extra consideration of never letting his name be used to Guild Wars 2?"

Yes, well maybe :P, it's a social identity which is used by the person using a specific name in GW1. On several occasions people have asked me "Are you (name here) that also plays this/that game?" or something similar. If a person continues playing GW1 but that name is taken by someone else in GW2 and uses it to smear the GW1 player then that will be another problem which Support will have to deal with. Another problem is that people could then just take names in GW2 by well-known players in GW1 just to sell them for real money, smear those names, etc... You might say "Oh, nobody thinks about doeing something like that.", but I just did.

I also think if a person starts playing GW2, without having played GW1, should get his/her names reserved in GW1, just incase that person decides to start playing GW1. Qaletaqa Hania 12:02, 3 June 2010 (UTC)

Isn't that a bit hypocritical. It's only a permaban unless you spend money? --The preceding unsigned comment was added by 208.101.175.172 (talk).

I don't know who you are talking to but I don't think anyone has said what you think they said. If you are permabanned in GW1 you remain beeing permabanned in GW1, money isn't gonna change that. Qaletaqa Hania 20:07, 3 June 2010 (UTC)

Not really, if you're "permabanned", you just go buy a new account. Which, I can see as both a good thing and a bad thing. Sure, people get second (and probably more) chances, but they now get a second chance to do exactly what it was they were doing before, perhaps a bit more intelligently (i.e. less likely to be caught again). -- FreedomBound 20:26, 3 June 2010 (UTC)

This includes the very real chance that the "permabanned" offender may actually DO THE RIGHT THING and not cheat, grief or otherwise make themselves a ban target. — Mar Master 20:41, 3 June 2010 (UTC)

Issue with Support Email Address

support@guildwars.com email address doesn't seem to exist

Haven't played in ages, decided to get back into the game, found out about the character-name thing, and so needed to get in contact with support, as I haven't got the slightest idea what my characters were called... Every time I email them, I get a "recipient not found" type message bounced back to me, either from MAILER-DAEMON@guildwars.com or from postmaster@ncsoft.com Here's the relevant text from the postmaster one, minus my email address. (note: i don't speak korean, but i deleted the one from mailer-daemon, which was in english)

다음 받는 사람이나 메일 그룹으로 메시지를 배달하지 못했습니다.

guildwarssupport@ncsoft.com 받는 사람의 전자 메일 주소가 받는 사람의 전자 메일 시스템에 없습니다. Microsoft Exchange는 사용자를 위해 이 메시지를 다시 배달하지 않습니다. 전자 메일 주소를 확인하고 이 메시지를 다시 보내거나 시스템 관리자에게 다음 진단 텍스트를 제공하십시오.

Microsoft Exchange Server 2007에서 보냄

관리자를 위한 진단 정보:

생성 서버: korea.ncsoft.corp

guildwarssupport@ncsoft.com

1. 550 5.1.1 RESOLVER.ADR.RecipNotFound; not found ##

원본 메시지 머리글:

Received: from spam.korea.ncsoft.corp (172.20.0.110) by

ncs-cas01.korea.ncsoft.corp (172.20.0.89) with Microsoft SMTP Server id
8.1.393.1; Fri, 4 Jun 2010 16:10:16 +0900

X-AuditID: ac14006e-b7bdeae000007ef3-09-4c08a6d70ce0 Received: from smtp1.guildwars.com (smtp1.guildwars.com [216.107.246.4]) by

spam.korea.ncsoft.corp (Spam Mail Gateway) with SMTP id 69.E3.32499.8D6A80C4;
Fri,  4 Jun 2010 16:10:16 +0900 (KST)

Received: by smtp1.guildwars.com (BorderWare MXtreme Mail Firewall) id

16A542C13U; Fri,  4 Jun 2010 00:10:14 -0700 (PDT)

Delivered-To: support@guildwars.com Received: from mail-gw0-f43.google.com (mail-gw0-f43.google.com

[74.125.83.43])	by smtp1.guildwars.com (BorderWare MXtreme Mail Firewall)
with ESMTP id D7F636B65X	for <Support@GuildWars.com>; Fri,  4 Jun 2010
00:10:14 -0700 (PDT)

Received: by gwj17 with SMTP id 17so1292559gwj.2 for

<Support@GuildWars.com>; Fri, 04 Jun 2010 00:10:14 -0700 (PDT)

DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed;

       d=gmail.com; s=gamma;
       h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:received:date:message-id
        :subject:from:to:content-type;
       bh=/NBm4Ed8snCsYWYnfW2TxtNa86hj6Gwi+mLx5isWAtY=;
       b=Gy4X8CAo4hVrM8EoXnd8Ll+TE2tHi7mvt/kIILbEWsAOxCnjaFW6CCm+arWtQHnt0q
        ouML+L6FvZ0P9ppMW59T9K8URbRXpXMAdeWrAQ3+G2bpPdaKyTdPgX0Kr1FvJjmKiXPa
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DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws;

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       b=aUulLX60iOnRmEAtyWHNpAfvBnaBdPZeINknSXkE8Bs77Gn7uGZ3KjgU/jIYuVTMKP
        ue/Bnr2k08NCv9/thZ4WwaaSlSNB7tjnfrYQcSveLswi/4kySM5hNpe5pTfEkmi2y2op
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MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.151.87.12 with SMTP id p12mr10140624ybl.174.1275635413951;

	Fri, 04 Jun 2010 00:10:13 -0700 (PDT)

Received: by 10.151.107.17 with HTTP; Fri, 4 Jun 2010 00:10:13 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 4 Jun 2010 00:10:13 -0700 Message-ID: <AANLkTinAOkk0z_sxG-DSANARZf8usN9-LKZlsGtR8_GI@mail.gmail.com> Subject: Forgot character name From: <[*]myemailaddress removed[*]> To: <Support@GuildWars.com> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000e0cd2d8a0b6244704882f03b4" X-Brightmail-Tracker: AAAAAhSENQUUhELw Return-Path: [*]myemailaddress removed[*]

Send an email to support@ncsoft.com. Alternatively, going to www.plaync.com and clicking the "Support" link will take you to a list of options including the web-based support service where you can register a support account and "Contact NCsoft support" that way. -- WarBlade 23:17, 4 June 2010 (UTC)

We had email difficulties on Friday, and I apologize for your inconvenience. Could you kindly try sending your email again to Support@GuildWars.com? I'm told the mail address should be working properly. If not, please do let me know. Thanks. -- Gaile 03:39, 8 June 2010 (UTC)

hate you

Well I've quit GWs, and i hate you. I had a girlfried being abused on gw and all she wanted to do was play, but no gaile and her team of thick skulled chimps couldn't help....wonder why? despite having loads of people with a neutral view on the matter saying anet have no heart or brain when it came to the matter in question, i still trusted you guys. Anyway gw2 is gonna suck, gw1 sucks already and the team behind the updates are trying desperately to kick it while its down. Anyway ur bad i hate you etc hf screwing over other people ^^ --Silven 08:41, 10 June 2010 (UTC) PS. WTS GAILE GRAY DIRT CHEAP, THAT's ALL SHE's WORTH.. apparently you're allowed to do that ingame so should be fine here, that was one of the messages one of the offenders kept using against my gf and gaile said it was ok. If you bother to look it up its in one of gailes archive pages cbf finding it.--Silven 08:46, 10 June 2010 (UTC)

This will help you right away, great move. -- Cyan 08:48, 10 June 2010 (UTC)

Generally, when you want to prove your point 'you' provide the proof. You know... ~~000.00.00.00~~ 08:56, 10 June 2010 (UTC)

So WHAT exactly happened?!84.196.2.44 11:23, 10 June 2010 (UTC)

Silven's gf was getting "abused" in game by people insinuating she was worthless publicly. He or someone reported the foul slander to support and they did nothing about these vile insults being tossed around by nefarious fiends, who clearly deserve to be discombobulated. Silven ragequit GW in response and decided to try and take it out on the world by shouting at random people on the wiki and got banned for it. He also now hates Gaile. In other news, pretty much everyone else's opinion of Gaile is unchanged, the people who disliked her before, likely still do and I am certain that the people who loved her still do as well! Hello Gaile, how are you today? Misery 11:55, 10 June 2010 (UTC)

Misery with the great summation of events. :P Yeah...trying to insult people that had nothing to do with it is rather juvenile. I'll give respect for someone sticking up for their gf in real life, but it's a game. Maybe it's just me, but I would just laugh about it and move on. If someone insulted me, at least I know they cared enough to do so. On an unrelated note, saw the Shield Stance demo, and I love the way the fire hits it and disperses. I wonder if arrows shot and blocked would be shown stuck in the shield too. — Gares 12:47, 10 June 2010 (UTC)

Verbal abuse is as real in a game as it is on the street. I understand the frustration of getting no back up for such a complaint, when people can get banned for "abusive" names bordering the laughable. Still .. it far from warrants taking it out on the whole world. --Manassas 12:54, 10 June 2010 (UTC)

Yeah, that's true. A person's feelings can get hurt being verbally abused in game too. Trying to hurt someone's feelings is juvenile as well, and shouldn't be done. Eh, people just handle that type of stuff differently. — Gares 13:05, 10 June 2010 (UTC)

All they say was that she was 'worthless'? That's all? O_o Are you serious? It's not even a proper insult or anything. You know, we have a saying in Spain that goes: "No hay mayor desprecio que el no aprecio". It means something like: "There is no greater slight than denying appreciation". In other words. If someone is bothering you, the best way to get back at them is to ignore them (after reporting them, of course). If those attacks were real verbal abuse and not just pointless mockery they would have been banned. You can't seriously pretend to ban any and all people that just annoy you. That's something only people with severely low self-esteem do. MithTalk 13:24, 10 June 2010 (UTC)

Yes, ok, sure Manassas. But try walking around any city shouting that out about someone in real life and see what kind of punishment you get. I am going to assume nothing other than people going "What the fuck is this dude on about? I shall keep my distance." If you are still in school you may get a detention. Misery 14:34, 10 June 2010 (UTC)

Gah! Highschool drama, it really is all very silly. Can we have seven hero teams now? Tylenol Jones 15:15, 10 June 2010 (UTC)

Misery, I was only saying that it - In my point of view - doesn't make verbal abuse OK just because it happens in a game. I don't know the details of the case in question. --Manassas 15:58, 10 June 2010 (UTC)

Insults over the net, which includes games just doesn't have that oomph factor for me. Back in the day when I used to play in a PUG team, there was a dumbass warrior with non maxed, non infused armor in THK and was getting pwned repeatedly by spectral agony. I decided not to heal this idiot and he called me a "worthless whore" among other less savory insults. Didn't bother me in the slightest since I knew I was right and that's all that mattered to me. Insults in real life... now that's a different story... much more real, more emotional and damaging. Plus in RL they can physically attack you even if you try to ignore them. So what i'm saying is... unless you know the person and hang with the person in RL, cyberbullying by a person you only know online is nothing compared to the real thing. --Lania Elderfire 18:41, 10 June 2010 (UTC)

LOL, i just checked his home page on wiki and he expects that all gw players have no lives. Also honestly i have no idea why you insult those who created the game that u only recently began to h8. Some people are just idiots. User:Austin1

(Reset indent) I'm going to respond and archive soon, because this post is quite across the line. You could have given me incident numbers to review instead of going off here as you did; this really isn't a very productive discussion. However, since you chose to bring up this matter here, I will mention that I have spoken with the Support Team more than once about this issue, and in fact just finished another conversation about this matter. The team has pulled game logs related to every report. They tell me that there is more to this story than meets the eye. In all cases they've researched they have either (1) taken action against the offending player(s), or (2) have determined that the issue is one of "mutual harassment." And they've made it clear when the latter is the case.

Selected screenshots don't always tell the full story. When the team can spot harassment, they act. But when the larger game logs show insults, taunting, verbal attacks, etc., flying in both directions, then the team generally either acts against both account holders or lets it go.

I have had far worse than "WTS Gaile" said against me in live chat. :) I don't consider "WTS Gaile" the be-all and end-all of "attacks" and I would not ask the team to give that a second's review unless it was spammed, in which case it would be caught in the hourly spam reviews and actioned without my having to say a word. Other comments? Sure, some are insulting and some are a violation of the User Agreement, and the team will review those -- for any player -- as they have done for each of your reports. To those who are involved in similar situations, I have to say I know it's difficult and I sympathize, I truly do. You want to hang out in your favourite district; the people who you believe are harassing you also want to be in that district. Maybe you were once friends and there's bitterness that prompts the insults. Maybe they just don't like your profession. :) But in the end, you feel bad about what they're doing. But in the end, from the Support perspective, there's a line, and in cases where the line is neared but not crossed, the team won't engage in a knee-jerk reaction that results in imprudently swinging the ban scythe, even while I do understand you would like them to do so, and I understand why you would like that, as well.

We don't -- can't -- offer group counseling, or "can't we all get along" classes. You can continue to report, of course, and you should. But please have faith that the team isn't taking sides and that they're using their best judgment on what does and doesn't deserve account action. In the end, please be assured the protests you have sent have been reviewed, with care, and that action has been taken, when appropriate. -- Gaile 21:07, 18 June 2010 (UTC)

EotN Skill Capture / Heroes

[Incident: 100527-000978]

Hi :) CherryViper has encouraged me to post here regarding an issue I've encountered with my son's account.

My son just bought Eye of the North, having completed the Prophecies campaign and wanting to expand his playing field, get some heroes and add new skills while waiting for GW2 to be released. However, while playing his ranger, when he attempted to capture the Elite skill "Prepared Shot" from Johon the Oxflinger in Ice Cliff Chasms, the skill was unavailable for capture after killing the boss (showing a "padlock" on the icon), as was the non-elite skill "Keen Arrow".

Added to this, when he "unlocked" Xandra and Khamu via the Norn Fighting Tournament their skills were similarly padlocked, rendering those heroes (almost) useless.

Is this a fault? I've capped the skill on my account's Ranger though I own all chapters of the game. Surely any skill that is being used in EotN should be captureable by people playing that chapter of the game and any hero which can be unlocked should be able to be equipped with a suitable skill bar.

CherryViper promptly replied "I have reviewed this account and it has Prophecies and Eye of the North. The skills "Prepared Shot" and "Keen Arrow" are Nightfall skills and require that the account has Nightfall in order to capture or use them. Xandra's default ritualist skills are all from Factions; she can use them normally, but without access to Factions, you cannot force their use, although you can still disable them. Kahmu's default dervish skills are all from Nightfall; he can use them normally, but without access to Nightfall, you cannot force their use, although you can still disable them."

I realise that "Prepared Shot" and "Keen Arrow" were skills originating from Nightfall, but my point is that as those skills are being used by foes in EotN they SHOULD be captureable by players who have that chapter of the game. To make it necessary for them to buy Nightfall / Factions just to capture a few skills or make the EotN heroes usable makes me think that Shiro and Abbadon have found their way into our realm. Or maybe they're running the marketing department?!

My apologies if the format of this query is incorrect as this is my first Wiki post, having created an account just to bring this into the public arena. Any help would be most appreciated :) --The preceding unsigned comment was added by User:CSpace Bloodlust (talk).

That's just the way it is I'm afraid. I know it sucks but that is content available in another campaign that other users have paid for, and it wouldn't be considered fair on them/us if it started to become free to other users who didn't pay for the expansions. At least you are able to still unlock the heroes themselves (they could have gone another way, and simply not made heroes of X profession available at all to anyone without the required campaign). Those heroes can still use any and all skills your son has unlocked already, and there's bound to be some useful builds he can make use of which doesn't require much from the primary profession, I've noticed that seems to be a popular thing to do these days, e.g. Assassins running around with scythes for example. EOTN is also generally, though probably not admitted officially, aimed towards those players who have all the campaigns. If I were you I'd treat your son to the other campaigns, I imagine they're pretty cheap these days, he'll get extra storage space and character slots on top of that. It'll also keep him busy for months, and busy kids are quiet kids! So you get a peaceful summer and everyone is happy :D Tylenol Jones 10:52, 4 June 2010 (UTC)

As Tylenol said above me, that is how the game functions and in my humble opinion that is completely understandable. Those skills originate from other campaigns and as such are not EOTN content, they are just used by fows in that area. If a player wishes to use a piece of content they must own the relevant title, in this case factions and nightfall. This is completely fair and from a game design viewpoint completely understandable. It should be noted that one CAN cap those skills in EOTN if one owns the relevant campaigns, thus one is not barred from capping skills in EOTN, just skills they have no right to access as they have not purchased the full relevant campaigns. In short ANET is a business, it's ultimate aim being to make money through producing a quality product and people purchasing that product, therefore if you want to use the content you have to buy the product. The campaigns are now VERY cheap from amazon or other such online retailers, so if your son really wants those skills, I would suggest that he get a paper round or does chores for pocket money and the like and save up for them, it really won't take that long. :) Regards -- Salome 22:33, 6 June 2010 (UTC)

The answers you have been provided are accurate. What monsters use in any particular campaign, land, or region would not be an indication of what a player character is entitled to, by any means. I ask that you consider what's fair and what's right. It would be inappropriate to give access to all skills to people who do not own all campaigns because it is fair that those who purchase more get more. It is by having people support our products through the purchase of individual campaigns (and other things) that we can continue to develop Guild Wars and Guild Wars 2.

The campaigns are very reasonable in price, and if one wants all content, one really needs to have all campaigns. You might consider starting a summer reading program in your home, where if your son reads XX hours, you purchase him a copy of the expansion pack. Just a thought, but I happen to believe in kindly encouragement of good habits. :) -- Gaile 03:35, 8 June 2010 (UTC)

I would also like to point out that your claims that the mentioned heroes are rendered unusable is not true, as indicated in the email response you received, the heroes can indeed use the skills they come with, however they can not be manipulated by the player, nor do they become available for the player's use. Also, you can still add a second core profession to both of those heroes to complete their skill bars. While it is not an ideal situation, and I understand your point of view, EotN is afterall, only an expansion, and not a full campaign. -- Wyn talk 11:31, 11 June 2010 (UTC)

I appreciate the input though I don't agree with several points. Central to my disagreement is the need to buy all campaigns to make the EotN expansion work to its full capacity. That's how CrippleWare / TrialWare works but I didn't expect it in EotN. My son didn't expect to have to buy the other campaigns just to be able to capture the elite skills in the expansion. Is that really an unreasonable expectation? Gaile, I never asked for or expected access to "all content" or "all skills" to campaigns that he doesn't own as you assumed. He just wants to be able to capture and use the skills that are present in the game that he does own. Doesn't THAT sound fair and right? :)

As for heroes, Wyn I didn't "claim that heroes are unusable", I said "(almost) useless"... a small difference in terminology but the reason I said "{almost) useless" is because they CAN be used, albeit in an inefficent, under-skilled manner (Khamu is presently running a Signet of Judgement smiter build, while Xandra is an AotL minion mistress). Semantics though so no big deal :) The reply I received from CherryViper made sense and gave me an increased understanding which I appreciated. My suggestion to improve this aspect of what I see as a pitfall for people who don't have or want to buy all campaigns / expansions is to give players the option of using a selection of pre-made builds to choose from for the EotN heroes (henchie builds for instance). This way they enjoy the game with a warm fuzzy feeling while waiting for GW2 to be released. :) --The preceding unsigned comment was added by User:Cspace Bloodlust (talk).

"He just wants to be able to capture and use the skills that are present in the game that he does own." And he can, he can capture all the skills present in the game that he does own, but he doesn't own Factions or Nightfall, so he can't capture those. It's quite fair. As for the Crippleware / Trialware comparison, EOTN is nothing like that. That would be like me going out and buying a Motorcycle then complaining I didn't get four wheels like the neighbor got with his new car. Anet is a business when it comes down to it, and one that doesn't impose a monthly payment system to play the game. Considering the other campaigns are practically a few dollars these days, for months, even years of entertainment, you can't begrudge them that, surely? Tylenol Jones 03:58, 13 June 2010 (UTC)

Tylenol, we may have to agree to disagree as you don't seem to understand the basic point I have tried to make clear when you respond ""And he can, he can capture all the skills present in the game that he does own"". He owns EOtN and he CAN'T capture the skills that are present in that game. Just because they first appeared in other campaigns is irrelevant. I can't explain it any simpler tham that. As for your Motorcyle analogy, if I went out and bought a Motorcyle and was then told I couldn't use all of its features unless I bought those two extra wheels, would be more accurate than your example. My son doesn't want a car as he would have bought one if he did. What he wants is for his shiny new Motorcycle to be fully functional. The cost of the other campaigns and the obvious fact that Anet is a business are irrelevant distractions from the point I have been trying to make. Just because Anet doesn't charge a monthly fee doesn't mean it should sell a product which requires the purchase of other products to make it complete without that requirement being made obvious to intending purchasers. --The preceding unsigned comment was added by User:Cspace Bloodlust (talk).

It is fully functional. EotN adds 3 elite skills. Ursan Blessing, Raven Blessing and Volfen Blessing. Your son has access to those. If you read what EotN gives you access to, it would have been stated very clearly. If we look at your tired analogy it is like you bought 2 extra wheels for your mototcycle and are expecting that mountings be provided so that you can use them with your motorcycle free of charge. Just because an enemy uses a skill doesn't mean that you own access rights to it as well. A similar situation exists with the Shiro'ken that are present in the Nightfall campaign. If you don't have Factions you can't use the skills captured from them either. Your son also has access to 10 skills for each profession he doesn't have access to, the ones listed here. Read what is on the box, that is what you are buying. If you are not satisfied with that, don't buy it. It's called being a savvy consumer. Don't blame a company because you didn't do your homework. Misery 09:54, 13 June 2010 (UTC)

@CSpace, no. I do understand what you're trying to say, but what I'm trying to explain, what others who've replied have also tried to explain. Your son can use all the skills he owns but not those he doesn't own. As he doesn't own Factions or Nightfall, he doesn't have access to Faction or Nightfall skills or professions, so he can't use them. Misery explained it clearest above. Basically that's what you bought with EOTN, the extra campaign specific skills are a bonus since they're not core skills. Being able to use some of them at all is a bonus, same with those heroes, it's a bonus on top of the new locations, quests, items, bundled profession skills, PvE only skills, titles etc, and offers optional capping locations for those professions who can use them, just as the other campaigns offer optional capping locations for various skills.

I only recently began playing seriously again, and treated myself to EOTN. Before then I didn't have any EOTN content, and being completely honest, the thought that I should have, never once crossed my mind. As for the "almost useless" heroes. After I suggested to you to make use of secondary profession skills on those heroes without access to all their skills, I realized I hadn't done that much myself since I have all the campaigns. So gave it a try, and have been having a lot of fun coming up with some pretty interesting combinations. So I'd hardly consider them useless or almost useless at all. Tylenol Jones 11:48, 13 June 2010 (UTC)

Misery, I read the box, it says "Full Version of Any Guild Wars Campaign Required To Play". There's no mention of any restrictions in functionality for people who only own one campaign. In my opinion a better way to treat people who don't have all previous campaigns would be to have an advisory on the box revealing that all campaigns are needed to unlock all aspects of the EotN expansion. Ideally, if a player owns a campaign or expansion then he would also own any skills and heroes that are unlockable in that campaign / expansion. A lesser attractive alternative would be to have no skill displayed instead of the padlocked skill or even substitute a core skill for the padlocked skill when using a signet of capture on an EotN boss. Anyway, I think I'll leave it at that as I've said my piece in as many ways as I think could be productive and I'm sure we all have better things to do. Thanks to you all for your input. See you in GW2 :) --The preceding unsigned comment was added by User:Cspace Bloodlust (talk).

"Full Version of Any Guild Wars Campaign Required To Play" and your son can play. Yay, you got what you paid for! Your son can unlock all aspects of the EotN expansion. What he can't unlock are the Factions and Nightfall aspects that feature in the campaign. I'm glad you are satisfied. It has been a pleasure to help bring this to a satisfactory conclusion for you. Misery 12:28, 14 June 2010 (UTC)

You don't seem to get it. Let's look elsewhere. PvP. If you get the Prophecies PvP unlock pack, you'll be able to play in PvP with Prpphecies skills. But enemies will come with their own skills of the content they have unlocked. And enemy using a skill doesn't allow you to use it. Owning the campaign does. So, you say "replace them with another of the one I own". And the answer is "why?". When you defeat a boss and use a signet of capture, you'll see all the skills players can learn. You won't see monsters skills. A player CAN learn a skill of a campaign he doesn't own if he gets the campaign, but a player will NEVER be able to learn a monster skill. That's how the signet of capture works. Expecting to work in any other way it's like expecting to face in PvP only enemies with the same skills you have unlocked. Foes in EotN have skills from all 3 campaigns because EotN is an expansion, and don't have many skills of its own. And it's way more practical and better for marketing to show a lock than replacing the skill for another or giving them for free. So, the solution here is not ANet changing the behavior of the signet of capture, or giving the skills for free, but you purchasing all campaigns for your son. MithTalk 13:28, 14 June 2010 (UTC)

Question about naming

So, the names reserved through my banned account are not reserved in GW2 at all, correct? What if I want to reserve that name on my new account by making a character with that name in GW1? I suppose my question is, is there a way to delete/rename a character on an account that's been banned in GW1? -- Tha Reckoning 04:42, 5 June 2010 (UTC)

They don't touch banned accounts, dude. Your characters are dead. elix Omni 04:48, 5 June 2010 (UTC)

Idc about the characters, I just wanted to know if I could name one on my current account after one of the ones that got lolbanned. I don't see a point in keeping chars on banned accounts, that uses up names that peeps who actually play could use. -- Tha Reckoning 04:49, 5 June 2010 (UTC)

Isn't that practically circumventing the whole not being able to reserve names used on a banned account though? Since no banned accounts will be able to reserve names, those names are free for all come GW2. If you really want to keep those names, you'll need to buy GW2 and grab the names before someone else does. Tylenol Jones 06:18, 5 June 2010 (UTC)

Yeah, that's kinda what I figured. And yeah, practically circumventing was the idea. -- Tha Reckoning 06:20, 5 June 2010 (UTC)

Once an account is terminated (banned) it cannot be accessed to rename characters. What would be the point -- no one's going to see those characters again anyway. And I don't see a "backwards" tie between Guild Wars 2 and Guild Wars, where if you take a name in GW2 you can retroactively lock it up on GW. If you're a GW player in good standing and if you purchase GW2 you can carryover the GW name to GW2. How that works may have been explained in a recent article. If not, I can ask the team if they could consider including that in a future blog. -- Gaile 04:10, 8 June 2010 (UTC)

I'm not meaning that I want the name back in GW1, I'm meaning that I want one of the names from my old banned account (GW1) for my next account (GW2). My better half informed me a while back that she'd like it if we played together, so it looks like I'm buying two. I'll just have to preorder and snatch the name I want really fast. -- Tha Reckoning 11:44, 8 June 2010 (UTC)

Hello, I treasure Account

Dear Gaile, Hello. I am a Guildwars player from China. I treasure my account, because living in China, to obtain account is very difficult.

I think you should have heard that China has a lot of fram player. They destroyed the harmony and order destruction of the game.They should be severely hit to protect the interests of players.

In this environment, I really treasure account. Weekend games with friends, mutual assistance, who need to give him any items, with the entertainment team. Law-abiding game, does not violate rules of the game. You will kill the fun of the game I do?

Very grateful to ANET created guildwars, are also very grateful to GM safeguarding world peace.

--Weillz 08:56, 5 June 2010 (UTC)

Hello Weillz. I am glad that you support the effort to remove bots and other harmful elements from the game. I do appreciate that it is more challenging to play from some areas of the world where the games are not available, or where buying from the In-Game Store may be impossible. I am glad that you have continue to play and to help other players, as well. :) -- Gaile 04:03, 8 June 2010 (UTC)

So why do only the obvious trolls get responses from Gaile? Big Apples 16:26, 14 June 2010 (UTC)

What do you mean Big Apples? This seems like a genuine message of gratitude to Anet and Gaile --San Darkwood 18:52, 14 June 2010 (UTC)

Can you help me ,plz...[ Question Reference #100507-001319 ] --Weillz 06:39, 22 June 2010 (UTC)

相信我，我用了2年的时间来进行解封（为了这个帐号）。如果有时间，我将用一生的时间来解封，也许等到你（Gaile）退休后，我才会有机会。

Believe me, I spent two years to carry out re-opened (for this account). If you have time, I will use the life-time closed, maybe wait until you (Gaile) after retirement, I will have a chance.--Weillz 06:43, 22 June 2010 (UTC)

New Accounts

Dear Gaile,

I think a similar topic has been raised before. However I would like to ask a slightly different question.

Which is;

Who should I contact about recieveing 'Express written permission of NCsoft' as stated by 4 part (h) and (i) of the UK EULA?

As my account has been Terminated for the usage of a Third Party Programme, which I had asked Support before using [Incident: 100315-002205].

However as it is banned, I wish to purchase Guild Wars Complete Collection so that I can continue to play, but I wish to safeguard it from being banned straight away.

Your "Go forth and sin no more" policy, as that is not part of the EULA does that then mean ArenaNet do not have to comply to it?

So I would like to get the written permission, so I can buy another Account with the peace of mind knowing that it will not be Terminated on activation.

Also I would like to add that I have completely removed Guild Wars and all its files from my system, so that when I get a New Account there cannot be any Issues regarding Third Party Programmes. I also send a E-mail to Support but not recived any responce likely to it being lumped in with an old Ticket which is now closed.

Thanks Hippocrates

X Hippocrates X 11:54, 8 June 2010 (UTC)

Just shoot an email to support, I think any of the GM's can give it to you, I got mine from GM Cykor. -- Tha Reckoning 11:58, 8 June 2010 (UTC)

"Also I would like to add that I have completely removed Guild Wars and all its files from my system, so that when I get a New Account there cannot be any Issues regarding Third Party Programmes." I think the phrase is "cool story bro". You can't really prove that to us. Anyway, no, it doesn't necessarily remove the possibility of third party influence on the program just because you reinstall, as it's just that, third party, and not necessarily in a GW file.

"Your "Go forth and sin no more" policy, as that is not part of the EULA does that then mean ArenaNet do not have to comply to it?" The inverse, I think: because there is no policy which gives them permission to ban based on a person's prior account, they can't. Apparently, anyway. --Kyoshi (Talk) 21:28, 8 June 2010 (UTC)

Lack of proof does not make it untrue, I hope that I have found anything/everything which has any relation to GW, as buying and then having a new account banned would make anyone annoyed, after trying to remedy the problem.

"(h) Former Members. Members whose Accounts have been terminated by NCsoft may not access the Service in any manner or for any reason, including through any other Account, without the express written permission of NCsoft. Accounts accessed by Former Members are subject to immediate termination. NCsoft reserves the right to use any means necessary, including those in section 4(i) to identify and remove Former Members."

"(i) Related Accounts. If NCsoft terminates an Account, NCsoft may terminate any other Accounts that share the same member name, phone number, email address, postal address, Internet Protocol address, or credit card number with the terminated Account."

I read this as we Can and Will Terminate any new accounts, but if this is not case I would appreciate your view on it. Hence I wish to get this Permission. X Hippocrates X 22:17, 8 June 2010 (UTC)

OK, my problem has been resolved, Thanks anyway. X Hippocrates X 19:42, 10 June 2010 (UTC)

Support@guildwars.com is not working

"This is an automated message from the BorderWare MXtreme Mail Firewall

at host smtp2.guildwars.com.

The message returned below could not be delivered to its intended destinations.

For further assistance, please send mail to <postmaster@smtp2.guildwars.com>.

If you do so, please include this problem report. You can delete your own text from the message returned below.

Reason:

<guildwarssupport@ncsoft.com>: host smtp1.ncsoft.net[211.189.163.230] said: 550

   Recipient address rejected: User unknown"

Kbar 21:57, 8 June 2010 (UTC)

Apologies for the tardy reply - I did not see this thread/article. Just to let you know, I've been working on this since last month. :( I'm real sorry that you had that difficulty, and I hope that you did get in touch with Support, if not through email then though our website. If not, please do resubmit your email, because as of this afternoon (Saturday, June 19th) I am told that the email address is working, and my testing confirms that to be the case. -- Gaile 00:56, 20 June 2010 (UTC)

support@guildwars.com broken?

I've had a few friends say they're sending emails to that address, but it's being blocked. I have included an example:

Date: Thu, 10 Jun 2010 03:21:54 -0700 From: MAILER-DAEMON@guildwars.com Subject: Undelivered Mail Returned to Sender To: <private> This is an automated message from the BorderWare MXtreme Mail Firewall at host smtp2.guildwars.com.

The message returned below could not be delivered to its intended destinations.

For further assistance, please send mail to <postmaster@smtp2.guildwars.com>.

If you do so, please include this problem report. You can delete your own text from the message returned below.

Reason:

--Forwarded Message Attachment-- From: <private> To: support@guildwars.com Subject: Goldseller Report Date: Thu, 10 Jun 2010 10:21:52 +0000

Thu, June 10th, approx 0315 GMT, Kamadan America Dis 3.

'God S Adept' selling gold/ecto/etc for real money, advertising his site www.mmobear.com. Zones around too fast to report ingame.

Rawr ~~000.00.00.00~~ 10:27, 10 June 2010 (UTC)

Oh, and I have emailed the postmaster with this, but I thought I'd bring this up with you as well. Kinda awkward when you think about it, suggesting an email that doesn't work. ~~000.00.00.00~~ 10:31, 10 June 2010 (UTC)

I am going to test your patience, if you would be so kind to allow me to do so. Please try sending another email to the support@guildwars.com address. I really need to know if things are bouncing, for I've been told the problem was resolved days ago. Thank you for your help! -- Gaile 21:08, 18 June 2010 (UTC)

I got that message today as well Gaile.

"This is an automated message from the BorderWare MXtreme Mail Firewall"

"at host smtp1.guildwars.com."

"The message returned below could not be delivered to its intended destinations."

"For further assistance, please send mail to <postmaster@smtp1.guildwars.com>."

"If you do so, please include this problem report. You can delete your own text from the message returned below."

"Reason:"

"<guildwarssupport@ncsoft.com>: host smtp1.ncsoft.net[211.189.163.230] said: 550"

"Recipient address rejected: User unknown"

--*Yasmin Parvaneh* 21:12, 18 June 2010 (UTC)

Thank you for letting me know for certain that we still have issues. Just to let you know, this has been an intermittent problem for several weeks. On two occasions I honestly believed it was fixed. I even sent test mails and, having no problems, figured everything was A-Ok. (Which is likely what the folks directly working on this did, and believed as well.) But, obviously, some mail server somewhere is putting up a barrier. I have sent an email to about 20 different people tonight -- poor them! :) -- and I am sure they'll attack this issue as soon as possible!

Thanks to everyone who made me aware of this, and feel free to update this thread if you have any more info! -- Gaile 07:20, 19 June 2010 (UTC)

Update: Both the ArenaNet and NCsoft teams got involved in this one and they believe the problem has been identified and resolved. My first test mail went through properly and I'm sending follow-up mails to complete the testing. Based on what I'm reading in the internal mails, and on my receiving the proper response just now, the support@guildwars.com email address should be working just fine now. Thanks again for bringing this to my attention. -- Gaile 19:17, 19 June 2010 (UTC)

I've been testing up a storm -- internal emails, personal email addy, etc. -- and the address really does seem to be working properly this time. I will leave this up for a few more days, though, in case anyone else had a bounce and needs to see this to know things are ok now. Thanks again for the reports, guys, it was very helpful of you to tell me! -- Gaile 18:59, 22 June 2010 (UTC)

Reinstalling Guild Wars

76%?

^^ Hopefully you might be able to help meh. After a few weeks of AFK in this game, I've decided to come back. I've experienced some download problems that I've experienced on another rig before. Still don't know how I fixed it on that one, but that was last year.

It started when I tried running GW around 2 months ago or so and it would not connect to A-Net. No error message, it would just sit at 0. I thought re-downloading it would work. When the setup is run, the 'connecting to A-Net' line creeps up to around 76% (under the R on the GW logo) and sits. And does nothing.

So I hopped on my other rig and found that it could download GW just fine. Too bad it's far to ancient to run any type of MMO. I put the folder on my external drive and brought it down here. When I run GW on it while it's plugged into this rig, it will sit at around 76% in 'connecting to A-Net.'

The post above mine, regarding failure to send a support message, was the same for me when I attempted to e-mail support. Help meh! DarkNe7h 18:47, 9 June 2010 (UTC)

It sounds like a router problem. You might want to check your router configuration to make sure that both connections are configured to allow access. The other option would be to take your game rig to where your other one is and try plugging it in there. That would allow you to determine if it is a problem with the machine, or with the router connection. (Just a few troubleshooting hints). -- Wyn talk 11:35, 11 June 2010 (UTC)

I agree, or a misconfiguration of a software firewall on your system, or an overly oppressive institutional firewall if you are connecting at a university. If it is the router you should check the router firewall configuration and make sure it is not blocking certain ports. AFAIK it needs TCP/IP port 6112 open; and many colleges block that port for some idiotic reason :P. --Lania 22:24, 11 June 2010 (UTC)

In my recent attempts, I have found that the problem is with my computer. I attempted to connect by bypassing my router and get the same results. Any suggestions? DarkNe7h 03:08, 18 June 2010 (UTC)

You should give more info on the specs cause it could be a number of things. You might also have some luck asking on the GW forums, there tends to be a tech section on most if not all of those. Do you have problems downloading or connecting to other things? Tylenol Jones 12:24, 18 June 2010 (UTC)

Tech Support should be a good source for help with this. They're a great bunch of guys and gals, and they're often able to suggest a mean to correct situations even when the problem is unique to an individual player's computer. Drop them a line to support@guildwars.com -- and yes, that address is working now, I tested -- or you can call them. See my "Contacting Support" page for more info. Good luck! -- Gaile 00:59, 20 June 2010 (UTC)

100611-002204

Hi Gaile, my friend is trying to get her character name back and hasn't heard from support for almost a week now...They asked for more info, which she gave, and she has had no further communication. Would you mind looking at the ticket for her? Thanks. dark chaos 01:33, 17 June 2010 (UTC)

Your friend got a response four days ago (two days before you posted this thread), but has failed to update her ticket to provide information that the team needs to move forward. As you can imagine, to ensure that we afford the best possible security for our players' accounts, we cannot simply provide a character name for an account; we must have some proof that the person making the request is the person who actually owns the account. Please ask your friend to check her email for June 15th and respond with the request info so the team can assist her. Thanks. -- Gaile 01:02, 20 June 2010 (UTC)

I just checked this ticket again, and the account holder has not responded to the Support question asked on June 15th. It's a pretty simple question, and I think with the proper answer your friend will be back on her account. But at this point, I'm going to take this one off my radar, since there is a ticket to which the player can respond and my assistance doesn't really seem necessary. -- Gaile 20:35, 23 June 2010 (UTC)

Follow-Up

Hey Gaile, im just posting as its been over 3 weeks since your last reply. I assume youve been busy and forgotten or you havent gotten around to it yet but either way i was just wondering if there was any progress with the situation? Appreciated! Nick 94.173.9.211 20:31, 19 June 2010 (UTC)

Im sorry Satrec...im hopeless at teh interwebs. Im not sure how to create a new topic and didnt mean to impede on yours...if anyone feels like editing this for me it would be appreciated Topic Friend Banned Nick 94.173.9.211 20:33, 19 June 2010 (UTC)

Fixed by making you new topic. -- Gaile 20:34, 19 June 2010 (UTC)

Nick, now that this is on the proper page, could you please give me the original Incident (or ticket) Number? -- Gaile 20:37, 19 June 2010 (UTC)

Thanks gaile for fixing my mistake :p, yeah i gave you the incident number before but ill give you it again [Incident: 100508-003014]‏ Cheers! Nick 94.173.9.211 22:08, 19 June 2010 (UTC)

Nick -- you are correct, I did not hear back from the team member to whom I addressed my questions on June 1st. He has since left the team, so I have followed up again today and I believe that I will hear back from the team lead on Monday. Thanks for your patience. -- Gaile 23:46, 19 June 2010 (UTC)

Hello Nicholas,

we would like to apologize for the delay while handling this issue.

We have investigated this case again and unbanned your Guild Wars account. It should be playable again now and all your titles etc should be there for Guild Wars 2.

Thank you for your patience and understanding.

Kind regards,

Senior GM Dilbert

Guild Wars Customer Support

Thanks for the help Gaile! Nick 94.173.9.211 13:58, 21 June 2010 (UTC)

Glad to help, Nick, and welcome back to the game. :) -- Gaile 19:25, 21 June 2010 (UTC)

Chinese Player, Not Gold Farmer

My name is Wei Ness, From China, Imnt a Gold farmer.

Hey, player for Guildwars.首先我是一名诚实守信的玩家，我拥有4个帐号，但anet封了2个。自从2008年开始，我就不间断的写信申诉（要求解封），但都得到一个回答（我们已经深入调查，你的帐号应该被封）。fuck the GM,fuck the Anet...我并没有做过什么违背游戏规则的事情，绝对没有！并且我都提供了有效的证件，游戏id，游戏截图等资料。

相信我，anet的管理们，除非gw关闭，不然我将持之以恒的写信申诉。也许我有机会，等待你们的管理层换人，或者退休。现在我很年轻，而且我居住在相隔的大陆，你们无法刺杀我，更无法对我进行什么干扰。而我将通过合法途径不断的申诉。我有很多时间，相信你们会给我一个答复。

我已经用了2年的时间来申诉这2个帐号了，我不担心会用消耗更长的时间。

My Name Is Khan，but I am not a terrorist。

这句话带给我深刻的感触，也使我在2年内（2008-2010）不断的给ANET写信，申诉，请求解封我的帐号。

so，也许我可以说 My name is Wei Ness, From China, Imnt a Gold farmer.， 身处海岸相隔的大陆上，要像Khan那般见到美国总统是一见不容易的事情。那仅仅是一种理想，一种对自身民 族认可的渴望。以及自身IP地址所带来的自卑感。

在激战的北美服务器，就如同在美国生存那般。帐号被封因地区差异而得不到公平公正的对待。时至2年，不间断 的给anet写申诉信，直到不在回复。我又会重新申诉。

也许，如同中国的兵法战术，见到美国总统诉求是一件十分遥远的事情。但我可以选择等待，等待ANET的GM 退休，等待管理层退休，等待Guildwars易主。也许我能等到那一天，毕竟“人将易老”，而我还年轻。 我会注意保养身体的。在此期间，我不会停止申诉。

谢谢ANET，让我坚持做一件事情，长达2年。让我懂得了坚持。 也许还不够，也许我会像《肖申克的救赎》学习，10年，or 我的一生。

Game ID: Wei Ness Thank you for you reading.

---

First of all, I am a honest player, I have four accounts, but anet closed the two. Since the beginning of 2008, I wrote non-stop complaints (which requires re-opened), but they get a response (we have in-depth survey, your account should be closed). fuck the GM, fuck the Anet ... I did not do anything against the rules of the game things, absolutely not! And I have provided a valid certificate, the game id, game screenshots and other information.

Believe me anet, unless gw close, or I will persevere to fight with you. Perhaps I have the opportunity to wait for the management of your substitutions, or retirement. Now I am young and I live in the mainland apart, you can not kill me, but I can not carry out any interference. I will keep the complaints through legal channels. I have a lot of time, I think you give me an answer.

I have spent two years to redress these two accounts, I do not worry about consuming more time with.

My Name Is Khan, but I am not a terrorist.

This sentence gives me a deep feeling, also my 2 years (2008-2010) continued to write to the ANET, complaints, requests for re-opened my account.

so, perhaps I can say that My name is Wei Ness, From China, Imnt a Gold farmer. , are in the coast of the continent apart, as Khan is so to see the U.S. President is not easy to see thing. It is only an ideal, a national recognition of their own desire. And their own sense of inferiority caused by IP address.

In the battle of the North American server, just like living in the United States is so. Account was banned due to regional differences and lack of fair and equitable treatment. Am to 2 years of uninterrupted writing Shen Suxin to anet, until not reply. I will re-appeal.

Maybe, like the Chinese art of war tactics, and demand to see the U.S. president is a very long way off. But I can choose to wait, wait ANET's GM retirement, waiting for management to retire and wait for Guildwars easy to master. Maybe I can wait till that day, after all, "people will change the old" but I'm still young. I will pay attention to maintenance of the body. In the meantime, I will not stop the complaints.

Thank you ANET, so I insisted to do one thing, as long as 2 years. Let me know how to uphold. Perhaps not enough, maybe I'll like "The Shawshank Redemption" study, 10 years, or my life.

Game ID: Wei Ness Thank you for you reading.

PlayNC Account: jiweili123

Incident: 080313-000563 Incident: 091011-002673 Incident: 100507-001319

NCsoft Account: chinchon622

Incident: 080321-001327 Incident: 081117-000283 Incident: 090721-000733

• My name is Wei Ness, From China, Imnt a Gold farmer.

--Weillz 07:13, 22 June 2010 (UTC)

Weillz, you are comedic gold. I burst my spleens. elix Omni 08:05, 22 June 2010 (UTC)

KHAAAAAN! Mr J 08:55, 22 June 2010 (UTC)

plz ,help me, !--Weillz 03:38, 7 July 2010 (UTC)

Banned after 3 hours playing from china?

→ moved from User Talk:Gaile Gray

Hey Gaile, I'm not sure if this is the correct format to ask questions, so I apologize if I'm doing this wrong. The good people from Guildwarsguru.com suggested I contact you.

I moved to china from the US; bought the Guild Wars Trilogy on Steam; and after weeks of connection issues was able to connect to the servers last week.

I played for one night & got someone to level 4. Overnight I was banned. After emailing support I got this explanation from GM ApplePython:

"The account was permanently closed because it was involved in the sale of in-game items for cash or other items with real world value, or otherwise engaged in gathering items to be sold for cash or other items with real world value."

I emailed back for clarification (as well as my defense) and just got this email: "Due to the violations committed by this account, it will remain closed. We will not accept appeals in cases such as this because of the depth of the analysis prior to the block."

(I shortened both emails for the sake of the post)

I have a feeling that my account was banned simply because I'm playing from China, but there seems to be nothing I can do about it through the official support. Do you have any suggestions to get my account unblocked or did NCSoft just legally take my money? If you think you can help, I'll give you any additional information you may need. Thanks -Justin

First, set your mind at ease. We do not routinely block people because they're playing from a certain location. We have many players in Guild Wars from China. While the game isn't sold there, those who have a legitimate account and who play according to the rules are more than welcome to play! I will be happy to look into this matter, but I will need your 12-digit Support Incident Number in order to do so. Thank you. -- Gaile 01:05, 20 June 2010 (UTC)

Thank you for the prompt reply. The support incident number is 100606-000688. Thanks for taking the time to help everyone. It's difficult to only receive automated responses, the human touch is very reassuring. Thanks again. --justin

Thanks again Gaile! If it wasn't for your tireless support of the community, more people could be unnecessarily frustrated with the banning systems in place. I kinda want to send you a cookie or fruit basket...  :) -justin

Hey Justin. First, thanks for the kind thoughts -- I do love being able to solve puzzles and crack riddles. (And of course your impulse to send cookies or a fruit basket further warms my heart :) ) In the situation with your account, I can see that you got a note from the team yesterday morning (well, yesterday morning my time) saying that they had erred in blocking the account. You therefore should be in good shape now, able to play Guild Wars just fine. Please let em know if I can help in any other way. -- Gaile 20:43, 23 June 2010 (UTC)

Reclaim Issues - Hacked account

Dear Gaile,

I'm contacting you as you might be my last chance to reclaim my account after a hack.

I hereby kindly ask you to check incident #100615-001858 again. All information needed is provided in the ticket.

Many thanks!

Best regards. 91.57.22.215 20:39, 22 June 2010 (UTC)

Hello. I'm real sorry to hear that your account was hacked. :( It sounds like you are in the process of retrieving ownership of your email account and I am sure you will be making certain that the account is utterly secure once you regain possession. In the meantime, your request for assistance with the Guild Wars account is being examined by a senior team member. The team must take great care with these situations, as I am sure you can appreciate, because it is essential that they give account information and access only to the person who is the account owner!

I will ask for your patience as the team works through this process. They may need to get in touch with you to ask additional questions, due to the sensitive nature of hacked account issues. If you find you need to get in touch with me again, you may do so. However, please wait at least through the weekend before following up, to allow the team to make progress on this matter. Best of luck! -- Gaile 00:01, 23 June 2010 (UTC)

Hi Gaile. Many thanks for your fast response. Yes, reclaiming my old e-mail account failed - anyways, my new one with all information stored on got hacked (including e.g. scans of the s/n cards). I will contact you again next week if there hasn't been any process.

Best regards. 91.57.53.30 22:28, 23 June 2010 (UTC)

Hi again, Gaile. I hope you're well.

Due to the fact, that no one from the support team did respond so far, I'm contacting you again. I kindly ask you to check incident ##100615-001858 again. I received an answer from a Senior GM stating, that they won't grant access to the account again. After this response, I called the NCsoft support hotline. They said, this will be passed to the supervisor of the account support, as I should've provided sufficient information to identify myself.

Your help is much appreciated.

Best regards 91.57.33.106 10:11, 27 June 2010 (UTC)

Hi again. I checked today and I see that you called the Austin office. I am sorry that you needed to make a costly call on this matter, and I understand that the team member who spoke with you has relayed information to the folks who will help resolve the issue. I check in with both teams -- Europe and North America -- to see how they can assist you. I apologize for the delays in getting you the help that you need. Please let me know if you do not hear from someone very soon. Thank you. -- Gaile 19:25, 30 June 2010 (UTC)

The team lead wrote me this morning to say he is discussing this matter with the team. -- Gaile 18:02, 1 July 2010 (UTC)

Hello again. I have checked with team leads on two continents, and apparently this account is considered in a case of "ownership dispute" because more than one person is able to provide the same kind of proof of ownership and it's clear that more than one (perhaps several) people have used this account. Do you happen to have the original access keys? I am not asking if you can provide images of the keys; I am asking if you have the actual papers or the key cards in your possession? If you do, please update your ticket to tell the team that you have them (or even have one of them) and they may be able to accept your mailing the keys to them as a form of verification that you own the account. I regret that it may be this complicated, but the team cannot make an assumptions on ownership and there really is a problem here. -- Gaile 00:09, 3 July 2010 (UTC)

Hey Gaile! My friend asked me to update this discussion. Unfortunately he told me, that he didn't receive a response yet.

P.S. Did Emily bring the beverages? Best regards, Kumiko/Khazaro 14:23, 6 July 2010 (UTC)

@Gaile: I just wanted to let you know that there is a possible reason for the "ownership dispute", it comes in the form of "Texmod" and it's malicious, you can see what i'm talking about on http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/bad-copy-texmod-installed-gw-t10442820.html, if you read the topic you'll see what I mean. That topic was also one of the reasons why i've said the things i've said below in the "My Ban" section.

@91.57.33.106: I hope you are the real owner and that you have the documentation to proof it, if not... well I can't say what I wanna say then. --Qaletaqa Hania 13:37, 8 July 2010 (UTC)

My Ban

Hi Gaile, I was banned recently, and like pretty much everyone else, I'm denying that I botted. About 4 months ago, I got a new laptop for school, and I installed Linux, and I wiped the Windows 7 that was already on there. I ran Guild Wars off of Wine and I managed to get Texmod and KSmod to work (somewhat, very buggy) off of Wine as well. I was wondering if you could look at my ticket, and see if you could possibly do anything about it. Like I said before, I haven't botted, and I've never had any problems with arenanet or guild wars before. [Incident: 100527-003121] Thanks. Kbar 22:37, 26 June 2010 (UTC)

KSmod version 2.4 on Linux, and Texmod v.9b ported to Linux. I was running both at the same time, and only version 2.4 and Texmod v.9b would work simultaneously. The newer versions of KSmod would not work with TexMod at the same time.[Incident: 100527-003121] It's been very fustrating for me because I genuinely did not violate the User Agreement, and I haven't received much assistance about my ban except from those mass emails that do not relate to my case. Emailing support has not been much of a help, and I feel that you are my last hope. Kbar 23:35, 29 June 2010 (UTC)

Texmod ported to Linux? I admit I'm not familiar with Linux, so bear with me if this is a stupid question, but was it the original file listed on the wiki, or was it altered in some form to be able to run on Linux?-- Pyron Sy 23:53, 29 June 2010 (UTC)

Yes it would have to be modified if it's "ported" to linux. Though I wonder why you didn't use the windows version under wine? Or are you meaning ported to as in using an emulator like wine? --Lania 19:11, 30 June 2010 (UTC)

If it was altered to work natively on linux, then it may very well have contained code similar to the bots that were banned, in which case there's not a lot you can do.-- Pyron Sy 02:32, 1 July 2010 (UTC)

it was run under wine, like I said above. Kbar 03:13, 1 July 2010 (UTC)

Guild Wars is designed to run in Windows and with no third party programs. If you don't run it that way, any support you'll receive will be pure kindness. You can have both Linux and Windows in the same machine. MithTalk 15:12, 1 July 2010 (UTC)

Do you realize you're talking like if Windows was free?--Voltis 12:27, 4 July 2010 (UTC)

Because of the nature of this request, I am not going to get further involved in a review of the account termination. We do not support alternative OS. We do not support, approve, or vet third-party systems, and I'd add "especially since they're running in a non-native environment." In addition, you mentioned in the ticket that you have also created your own mods. And the data I have on your suspension is very persuasive and does not at all appear to be a mistake related to innocent farming.

If you were blocked in error, I'm sorry. But there are so many elements outside the norm on this one -- and the information we have is so persuasive -- that the case must be considered closed. -- Gaile 18:01, 1 July 2010 (UTC)

The mods i made were .tpf files for texmod that affect the interface. I know you don't support 3rd party programs or an alternative OS, but I don't feel that you should ban me because I've been using Linux for the last few months. The only time that I actually was farming was during the 2x Faction weekend where I spent several hours trying to raise my luxon rank, other than that I'm always doing Dungeons. I believe I was blocked in error, and I will continue to email support. Kbar 22:50, 2 July 2010 (UTC)

I've reviewed the data and have determined that you were not blocked in error. Something you did -- and I imagine it was unknowingly -- caused you to be flagged for the use of a disallowed third-party program. I cannot say why you were blocked -- what triggered the block specifically -- but you were not banned simply for (1) farming, or (2) using an alternative OS. You were banned for using a disallowed third-party program. And while you've offered to send copies of the mods you were using and the one you wrote -- and I can understand what prompted that offer -- the fact is, as I explained in our [FAQ] about bot bans, we cannot take on the review or approval of third-party programs. Each player must accept responsibility for his actions, including using programs that are clearly stated as "use at your own risk" and which in many cases have a known history that includes unacceptable additions beyond the original, "benign" code. -- Gaile 23:25, 2 July 2010 (UTC)

I'm completely in favor of taking responsibility for my actions, but I guarantee you that my account was not benefited from the 3rd program apps. I guarantee that there was no malicious code. I just wanted to improve my experience playing the game through visual enhancements. I know that the GW staff takes botting and hazardous 3rd party apps seriously, but you guys don't make it possible for a person to show their innocence, after a person's been accused of using malicious software. I'm not a bot writer or an exploiter, I'm a person who has played the game for the last 52 months and is looking forward to finishing up GW and moving on to GW 2. Kbar 03:00, 5 July 2010 (UTC)

In the end, the account will not be reinstated. The team cannot gauge intentions, it can only gauge actions. They can only look at what visibly, provably happened in relation to the game account. And what happened was in breach of the User Agreement. Whether or not you received benefit, the program(s) you used were designed to give unacceptable benefit. If the team starts accepting "I didn't mean to do it" or "I didn't know it was corrupted" or "I only tested it for an hour and then I deleted it from my system," or "I know it doesn't have bad components" or "I got the download from (site name here) and that proves it's ok," then everyone will say one of those things, including those who knowingly cheated or exploited.

"Use at your own risk," means just that. Unfortunately, you took many risks, such as using an alternative OS and implementing adapted mods that are, even unadapted, subject to all sorts of possible modifications that render them unacceptable. Your guarantee that there is no malicious code notwithstanding, the facts argue differently. I regret the termination, as I regret that of anyone who innocently used an unacceptable program. But there is no other way to handle the matter in a manner that is fair, professional, and appropriate. -- Gaile 19:15, 5 July 2010 (UTC)

"But there is no other way to handle the matter in a manner that is fair, professional, and appropriate."

I'll have to disagree with that. There are two things Anet could do that I can think of:

1. Anet could take the time to ensure the players safety by making their own version of some of the programs used by the community, Texmod and Multilaunch are the ones i'm thinking about. That should not be to difficult and won't take that much time, I think that dealing with these kinda issues is taking away alot more time and money (paying employees) from support which they could put to a "better" use. But yeah I guess the developers are all to busy working on GW2 and don't care what happens to the "innocent" players.

2. Disallow the use of 3rd party programs entirely. Which I think is the easiest and cheapest way out, this will also cause alot of "grief" to alot/most of the players. But it's better, in my oppionion, than banning players that used unsafe/unacceptable programs without knowing it was unsafe/unacceptable.

Currently this gray area (no pun intended) is very dangerous for players, it's like mistakenly use salt instead of sugar when making chocolate pudding, and that sucks because then we have to start all over again or give up. In the pudding analogy I would start over again but if I would get banned because I was unknowingly using a malicious version of Texmod or Multilaunch I would give up (not without a fight tho ;)).

I personally don't use any 3rd party program since "The Big Ban" because I don't want my account to be terminated cause of the possibility that they are malicious (even scanning them does not tell you what Anet thinks about them), I miss Texmod and Multilaunch tho. I understand it's a problem created by the players (they are the ones that wanna use 3rd party programs) but I hope Anet decides to do the right... or atleast something in the future about this. --Qaletaqa Hania 22:43, 5 July 2010 (UTC)

I spent $300 on my account buying everything for the release date price, which is why I'm trying to prove my innocence. The "mods" that I made were for "Texmod" the GUI Editor, which should not have been flagged as illegal 3rd party programs. I used KSmod version 2.4 which used a .dll injection (an older version), which probably caused me to be red-flagged for a ban. A month after the ban, I realize that Arenanet is just trying to improve the integrity of the game, which I highly wanted for the 52 months I was playing. Yet getting banned was not what I expected. I don't believe that banning people that were innocent is "appropriate" or "fair". I installed GW on Linux that's on this wiki website. You can run Windows inside of Linux, if you have a valid key. It's like having two operating systems. I use Linux for my job, and I use Windows for playing games. Like I said before, I ran Texmod with some .tpf files that I designed (Graphic UI enhancements like a black compass and clear panels etc.), KSmod 2.4 which used a .dll injection, and GW multi launch (infrequently). The "facts state otherwise", but the programs that you guys said won't get players banned got me banned. Since you "ok'd" KSmod, can you at least check KSmod version 2.4 which used a .dll injection, which is the only possible way that I got banned? Support@guildwars.com does not reply back to my emails anymore, so you are my last hope of getting my account back. Maybe a warning or possibly a private message or an email could have notified that an account is doing something possibly breaking the User agreement, instead of banning innocent players. I assure you that the few that were innocent find this response not "professional" or "appropriate". You are banning innocent players and botters as a collective effort, which is why the players like me are getting caught in the middle. "there is no other way to handle the matter in a manner that is fair, professional, and appropriate", you could give the innocent players a warning or a block for a month, or possibly make the bot detection better, instead of just a mass ban to prove a point. I would have thought that loyal customers like me would at least be treated with some form of decency after 52 months, instead of being thrown out with the botters. Kbar 23:13, 5 July 2010 (UTC)

@Qaletaqa: I have to disagree with your disagreement :-) The gray area is fine: it allows you to choose to be safe (no 3rd party), while leaving me free to decide to take a risk (or not). I certainly don't want ANet spending time vetting programs written by someone else (change control is hard enough internally; it can take orders of magnitude more effort to maintain with outside forces, esp. those that aren't vetted themselves by independent agencies).

It would be grand if there were enough people working on GW1 to do all the cool things that interest us, but there's not. ANet has to choose and I'm glad they choose content over features. However, we, the players, don't have to choose: ppls did carto long before TexMod; people can run two accounts without multilaunchers (off separate computers or virtual machines on same device).  — Tennessee Ernie Ford (TEF) 23:17, 5 July 2010 (UTC)

"Since you "ok'd" KSmod" No, they didn't. They don't "okay" any third party programs. At all. Ever. --Kyoshi (Talk) 00:27, 6 July 2010 (UTC)

I meant that they explicitly said that KSmod would not get you banned. Kbar 00:34, 6 July 2010 (UTC)

No. They may have said it was safe based on a description. But they never guarantee that a program is completely safe and will never get you banned, because they can not keep up with edits to programs that can potentially change its "safe" status at any time. --Kyoshi (Talk) 00:41, 6 July 2010 (UTC)

OK. I'm not addressing you, I'm addressing Gaile Gray. MY words did not convey the message that I intended to send. The "safe" versions of KSmod "should" not get you banned. Kbar 00:46, 6 July 2010 (UTC)

@Tennesee Ernie Ford: I'm more of a black and white person on matters such as these. And I wasn't talking about vetting someone elses program but develop their own, the two programs I mentioned should not be that hard to make with their knowledge, especially a Multilauncher. This would eliminate the use of those 3rd party programs, i'm not saying they should get rid off the "gray" area but make it possible for a player to not worry about beeing banned. Also, i'm only mentioning these two programs because they are, most likely, the most used 3rd party programs in GW.

I'd rather have a balance between content and features but that's personal taste. And I can only remember one feature beeing added since I started playing, which is the ability to save templates. Now that was one of the best updates they have ever done. (If you know of any other noticable features pls remind me, features like -password, etc... don't intrest me cause they are a security risk).

I also know people did carto long before Texmod, I was one of them, had to take screenshots and use photoshop which was a pain in the ass. I also used seperate computers before Multilaunch programs but again it was a pain in the ass, never did the whole virtual computer thing because my pc can't handle it (P4, 2.4Ghz), did try it.

@Kbar: I'm not familiar with KS-Mod and I know why, .dll injection, yuck.

"I would have thought that loyal customers like me would at least be treated with some form of decency after 52 months, instead of being thrown out with the botters."

Loyal or not they should treat everyone the same, it's not because you spent $300 on this game that you should get treated with "some form of decency", everyone should get treated with the same level of decency no matter how much they have spent, and in my oppinion you have been treated with decency. If you use 3rd party programs that uses the same techniques like botters do (.dll injection) well... this happens. Most game-developers will or would put you on the same boat as botters. And Anet has a "zero tolerance" on botting wich means that they do not give out warnings if they think what you use is unacceptable. They will review the data they have, and they have done so in your case, you have gotten your review but it didn't work out well for you. If you are trully innocent, well that sucks. --Qaletaqa Hania 01:16, 6 July 2010 (UTC)

One thing I would like to add is that, there is most likely more than meets the eye here. For various reasons anet can't reveal everything they have, but what they have is very convincing of bot activity. Gaile mentioned that he was banned using a disallowed thridparty program. So it is likely that anet detected a 3rdparty program that is known for botting, and this person used and activated the mod. Anet probably has a blacklist of mods... what's in the list, they will never say, but if you are caught using a program in the black list, I don't think any appeal process will work for you. --Lania 19:12, 6 July 2010 (UTC)

GW Character name required for Entry

→ moved from Feedback_talk:Gaile_Gray

Referencing : #100627-121 and #100627-000106 to NC Support I am previous GW player who has not played in a long time. I have forgotten my characters names and cannot otherwise locate them. Having read other boards, I know I am not the first one that this has happened to. Last night my husband purchased downloaded and set up GW only to discover, I cannot access my account. I received a response asking for all my information last night, which I provided, and I still have not received information to get into my account. Suggestion: Since this is happening to other people, why not setup an option where people who still have their access-keys, can find a way to do this without involving customer support. I thought that the reason that I kept my access-keys was for this situation; in fact, it seems to me the access keys would be a more secure route than character names, since people in the game do not see or interact with them. --The preceding unsigned comment was added by User:Animeada (talk).

Asking last night is a little too quickly to be asking about this. Gaile usually asks a about five business days before people come to her about giving support a nudge.

The character name change was added to stop a recent spring of "hackings" where a fansite's database was accessed from outside and many users who had the same user name and password for that site as for GW had their accounts stolen. Asking for access keys would be unfair to users who don't know it, as then, how exactly would you suggest they go about recovering their account?

Also, most of the issues other people had of this type occurred back when the change was implemented. There would be little point to creating a whole new system to take care of it now. Just be patient, you'll get your help. --Kyoshi (Talk) 22:15, 27 June 2010 (UTC)

just fyi, they were spewing bullshit when they tried to blame it on guru. the security leaks were all on their end. -Auron 23:08, 27 June 2010 (UTC)

Guru was never blamed iirc, just "a fansite". Believe whatever you want on that point though, I don't really care. --Kyoshi (Talk) 23:14, 27 June 2010 (UTC)

Kyoshi, those without access keys would still be able to contact support. Animeada's idea is for this to be an "option". Which means that instead of placing it here (or rather, here), it should go in the Feedback Portal, but that's another post altogether. :) -- FreedomBound 10:07, 28 June 2010 (UTC)

Ah...I figure I should have caught that. ^^;; --Kyoshi (Talk) 19:59, 28 June 2010 (UTC)

It wasn't guru, it was AION fansite forums that was hacked [9]. This led to a lot of phishing attacks which apparently some people got hooked, and many people used the same email for AION as they did for guildwars. And some of them also used the same password for both games, which led to both accounts getting compromised. --Lania 22:51, 28 June 2010 (UTC)

Some of you guys are tossing around a lot of "information" that isn't factual. And if those comments stay here without a response of some kind, others might assume that because there's no comment, the allegations must be true. Therefore, I feel that I cannot let such comments remain without making a generic response, not directed at any particular site or group or whatever. I can then archive because this thread has long exceeded its shelf life as it was intended to pertain just to a single account issue, after all.

I fully understand someone's desire to defend or support a particular fansite that he likes, or one that he honestly feels was not subject to a breach. But the fact is, a lot of different forums, fansites, and generic gaming sites have been hacked over the years, or have used outdated, security-weak versions of a forum set, or have housed forum or database vulnerabilities that allowed their members list to be retrieved and used for evil purposes. So please don't get into the "It's not XYZ," because, at one point or another, XYZ may well have been subject to an attack of one sort of another that did put its members in jeopardy. Such is the (extremely regrettable and utterly frustrating ) way of the world.

And comments such as "the security leaks were all on their end" -- if you mean NCsoft's end -- are provably inaccurate, so in the interests of accuracy and truth, please stop throwing those out. -- Gaile 20:06, 23 July 2010 (UTC)

In the name of accuracy, the security leaks were almost all on their end. -- ME --The preceding unsigned comment was added by 208.101.139.62 (talk).

In the interest of accuracy, no security leaks were detected on the Guild Wars or NCsoft side, despite weeks of testing and monitoring that continues to this day. -- Gaile 18:32, 1 August 2010 (UTC)

No security issues with accounts registered on the webpage? No one ever accessed information stored on there? -- ME -- — The preceding unsigned comment was added by 208.101.151.109 (talk) at 20:24, 01 August 2010 (UTC).

Silent affirmation. — The preceding unsigned comment was added by 208.101.151.109 (talk) at 17:59, 04 August 2010 (UTC).

Silence is seldom affirmation; it most certainly is not affirmation in this case. As I have already made abundantly clear, there were no security leaks detected on the Guild Wars or NCsoft side. Perhaps you're referring to some Internet users' mistaken belief that something that took place on an unofficial (fan)site actually took place on an official website. But that has been refuted. The Security Team tested for months and made literally tens of thousands of attempts, and they were never able to make that happen. One likely conclusion is that the two or three people who reported that alleged issue were mistaken in what took place, or were mistaken in believing that what took place on a fansite somehow impacted their NCsoft or (Aion) game account. -- Gaile 07:20, 10 August 2010 (UTC)

I can't believe that people still seriously think it's Anet or NCsoft's fault for the numerous account hacking despite everything that you (Gaile Grey), Anet, and NCsoft said. (Initially I thought it was Anet's fault too just cause so many people were saying it) This is in addition to the numerous admissions of the fan site admins about their forums or site getting hacked. Add to that the reality that some people use the same email and passwords for multiple things on the internet; and the discovery of various trojans, keyloggers, and other types of malware on the computers of hacked accounts. Finally the recent upsurge in hacking activity and sophistication spurred by the global economic recession has fooled even the internet savvy into unknowingly release sensitive information. Cybercrime in general has increased year after year since late 2007 about 12-15% every year. We really just need to become more educated about cybersecurity and protecting ourselves from the latest (and quite frankly "creative") threats rather than blaming people and organizations for things that didn't happen... --Lania 18:44, 10 August 2010 (UTC)

That is a whole lot of misdirection for just one paragraph. SIDENOTE: As is apparent, I have no idea how to format these appropriately, apologies. 208.101.136.15 01:17, 13 August 2010 (UTC)ME

Wow, really? I know we are all cynical and distrust authority figures and all that but come on... Just be logical about it. Why would a "thief" try to break into a "Fort Knox" to steal accounts, when you can do the same from small time banks with a single security guard, and outdated locks on the vaults? Malicious hackers are opportunistic just like thieves and they exploit the weakest and least protected to gain what they want, which in this case were the fan sites that used outdated protections, and users that fell prey to phishing attempts. --Lania 01:45, 13 August 2010 (UTC)

@Gaile's pseudonym, who said ncsoft was Fort Knox?208.101.136.15 06:07, 13 August 2010 (UTC)ME

So no answer would be bad. A detailed answer is bad. And someone who posts in support of an official response is... a fake? Maybe you're joking, maybe you're not. But know that I am not even sure if Lania and I are on the same continent, much less state or city. And I'm 100% certain she's not me, and I'm not her. If you're really concerned about the possibility that I'm posting on a smurf account, feel free to pass your accusation to any GWW admin. They have the capacity to check the IPs for posting and confirm what I've said. But is it necessary? Really? I have never posted on a smurf account, nor will I. A company representative would be nuts to do so, for any "benefit" would be small and the risk to individual and company reputation would be great. And... it's just not my style. I imagine that after 10 years with ArenaNet, and more than a dozen years in the industry, there are a whole lot of people who would vouch for my integrity and not a single one who would be able to sustain such an accusation. -- Gaile 06:34, 13 August 2010 (UTC)

I'll be more plain. I am referring directly to the official NCSoft support site, not a fan site. Are you saying that no person or persons ever intentionally or inadvertently accessed information that did not belong to them on the official NCSoft support site? For the sake of clarity, could we please put aside any references to fansites.

EDIT: I am asking only Gaile and not the fanboi army. I am sure Gaile is more than able to answer any questions on her own.

As far as the Lania thing goes, I apologize if I was a bit too glib. I am entirely unconcerned with whether Lania is you or is simply trying to be you. 08:24, 13 August 2010 (UTC)ME

"there were no security leaks detected on the Guild Wars or NCsoft side." I personally think that's pretty clear. --Kyoshi (Talk) 14:59, 13 August 2010 (UTC)

(Reset indent) 208, you ask for a response, you were given a very clear one by Gaile. You reject that, and ask again for a response. You continue to ignore people trying to help you by pointing you in the right direction. Stop. This conversation was dead a while ago. G R E E N E R 23:53, 13 August 2010 (UTC)

Ya, seriously, It's just a sad trolling attempt at this point. --Lania 00:25, 14 August 2010 (UTC)

I specifically asked for non-fanboi responses, that means hush yourselves please. I also asked for an official response to the question of whether the official NCSoft support site was compromised in any way, be it intentional or inadvertent. I know the the fanboi in you desperately wants to take the bullet for Gaile right now, but please allow her the chance to respond in a direct, non-ambiguous manner.

I don't get under the bridge and throw troll cookies at your jpeg cake offerings, please don't troll my question, allow Gaile to answer it in an official manner, which will put paid to said issue for the moment. 208.101.136.15 06:34, 14 August 2010 (UTC)ME

Erm, isn't your question already unambiguously answered by Gaile? She first wrote, "no security leaks were detected on the Guild Wars or NCsoft side, despite weeks of testing and monitoring that continues to this day." Your next response re-asked the question, followed by your taking silence as affirmation. Gaile responded to that saying, no, silence is not affirmation and reiterating that, "there were no security leaks detected on the Guild Wars or NCsoft side." I'm not sure why you think that "no security leaks" leaves open the possibility that people "intentionally or inadvertently" had access to data not their own through the official site(s). (Perhaps you are trying to ask something else, in which case, maybe you could rephrase it so that it's clear how your concern isn't related to "security leaks.")

BTW: if you don't want a response from the peanut gallery (fanbois or reasonable people trying to provide reasonable assistance), then posting on a wiki isn't the best way to go about it. It's a public talk page and anyone is free to post (within the guidelines/etc of the wiki). To get a private response, you could email Gaile and/or create a support ticket.  — Tennessee Ernie Ford (TEF) 10:14, 14 August 2010 (UTC)

Read up. Question asked; question answered multiple times. No. And for good measure, no again. -- Gaile 07:38, 21 August 2010 (UTC)

Banned [Incident: 100607-003352]

→ moved from Feedback_talk:Gaile_Gray

Dear Gaile, I think you may be my last hope with getting my Guild Wars account back. I have issued a support ticket and had a variety of responses from support, culminating with being told that any future correspondence regarding the termination of my account will be ignored. On Sunday 6th June I logged on to find a message saying my account had been terminated for using an illegal 3rd party programme. Now I’m not the most computer literate person and it took me a while to realise this is to do with botting. To make it clear I have never used a botting programme or downloaded anything to do with Guild Wars that was not from the Official Guild Wars / ArenaNet / NcSoft websites. I have no idea how to write or use a botting programme and have no interest in doing so. All I can ask is if you could look into my case, Thanks for your time. --HuntingMoomins 16:52, 20 June 2010 (UTC)

You can claim all you like that you never botted, but ANet has more evidence against you than your word does for you if you were banned in the first place. Even if you really haven't botted, if you used any third party program (anything other than Guild Wars that said it was related to Guild Wars) then your account is at risk for programs to set off the kind of alerts that ANet looks for, whatever those may be. That's all there is to it. --Kyoshi (Talk) 18:20, 20 June 2010 (UTC)

Of course they must have more evidence against me than I can provide in my defence as the way the system works means that the player can never provide any evidence in his defence. I understand that Anet will not provide me with the evidence against me as it could be used by others to find ways around how they detect bots. However, in this situation a legitimate player has been tried, sentenced and executed for a crime, before even knowing that the beady eye of big brother had him in its sights. Regardless of the situation I know that I have no power and therefore I throw myself at the knees of a last hope.--HuntingMoomins 15:51, 21 June 2010 (UTC)

Gaile isn't the Brotherhood, but good luck anyway I suppose. --Kyoshi (Talk) 16:45, 21 June 2010 (UTC)

HuntingMoomins -- Could you give me some details of what you were doing, where you were doing it, etc? I am researching this issue. -- Gaile 18:14, 22 June 2010 (UTC)

Thanks for the response Gaile, I haven’t downloaded any 3rd party programme’s (was too scared to even get TexMod), or used any macros or used the keyboard that some people seem to be concerned about (G15?). In the last month or two apart from normal game play (mostly just doing the daily Wanted quests) I was trying to farm greens/elite tomes from two bosses in Factions the Ritulist Construct and Byzzr Wingmender using a 55hp Necro build, farming dragon moss outside of Drazach Thicket during the quest ‘A New Escort’ using a ranger shadow form / whirling defence build and occasionally doing the first part of ToPK with my A/me. The only other thing I can think of is when I have been trying to get my party point title up by quickly using a frosty or mysterious tonic then changing outpost and repeating. Regardless of the out come of my ban I appreciate you looking into my appeal if I can be of any further help let me know, Thanks.--HuntingMoomins 16:52, 23 June 2010 (UTC)

Hi Gaile, is there any news on my account situation or any further information I can provide, Thanks.--HuntingMoomins 17:23, 3 July 2010 (UTC)

The team is going to take another look at this. There is data that seems to point to botting, but I think there's merit in examining another bit of data, as well, and in doing further analysis of the situation. One of the support agents will look into this and should be getting back to you in the next day or so. -- Gaile 20:19, 5 July 2010 (UTC)

Ok thanks Gaile I really appreciate the help, hopefully I will hear from them soon. --HuntingMoomins 17:53, 8 July 2010 (UTC)

Hi Gaile, any idea when support will be getting back to me?--HuntingMoomins 22:09, 14 July 2010 (UTC)

(Reset indent) My apologies for the time it has taken to review this issue. As I mentioned, I have been working with the team to develop some important documentation related to support processes and procedures, and that documentation may impact this account question. I have asked one of the team leads to take a look at this and if this account indeed falls within certain parameters that quality it for reinstatement, he'll let you (and me) know that. In all things, we try for a reasonable and fair policy, and that is our goal here. I should hear back sometime around 28 July about this. In the meantime, thank you for your patience. -- Gaile 21:39, 23 July 2010 (UTC)

Thanks Gaile, I really appreciate your help no matter what the outcome, I do miss playing Guild Wars.--HuntingMoomins 09:39, 24 July 2010 (UTC)

ummmm, nothing yet. Maybe next week?--HuntingMoomins 07:04, 6 August 2010 (UTC)

The team reviewed the data and said they were inclined to uphold the block because of the evidence they have in hand. I thought of one additional element we can review together, and I've sent an email asking for that discussion. I don't want to give you too much hope that this action will be reversed, but do know that we're doing everything we can to make sure the decision that was made and upheld was indeed the proper one, based on the details we have on record. Thanks for your continued patience! -- Gaile 22:40, 8 August 2010 (UTC)

Although I retain some hope that my name will be cleared this experience has left me jaded towards the whole online gaming experience, where from my point of view I have had my game stolen by the very company I bought it off. I realise that support don’t just ban people because they feel like it and that you obviously have some sort of evidence that appears to show that have done something wrong. However, if there are these areas that do warrant looking in to does this mean I was banned originally without a full review of my account-taking place? Does this mean people could potentially be banned in a way that is unsafe? I appreciate your help Gaile and I don’t mean to hassle you, but it has been 2 ½ months since I was banned and I am on the brink of just giving up. If this was any other game I would of left it at that weeks ago, but Guild Wars means a lot to me (I met my wife through it) so I’m willing to persevere. Any further help you can provide will be appreciated. Thank you again for you help.--HuntingMoomins 22:08, 20 August 2010 (UTC)

This case does make me a bit leery of doing anything that might appear like botting like... popping tons of frosty tonics by hopping between kamadan and the guildhall. You can do it really fast by placing the frosty inventory icon right next to the travel to the guildhall button, and the only limitation becomes the loading time. I've seen other guildies pop frosty tonics for several hours, and yeah, it really looks like botting... but whenever he talks he stops porting back and forth to type. My SO has W/N raptor farmed for hours before to get trick or treat bags, and reached rank 10 asrua in 2 weeks or something. Though it's probably really hard to bot W/N raptor farming since it's so timing sensitive... I don't even use a timer for the drunkard title for fear that the timing might be too uniform. Is there any guarantee that people don't get banned for playing like a zombie for hours on end doing repetitive tasks that's easily replicated by bots? --Lania 22:35, 20 August 2010 (UTC)

Oooohhhhhh yerr! My account was unblocked today. I am extraordinarily relieved as I had become rather disheartened by the whole process. Thank you Gaile for getting support to review my account and not just giving in after they said they where ‘inclined to uphold the block because of the evidence they have in hand’. I’m so glad that I can actually buy Guild Wars 2 now, I watched the clips from GamesCom and it looks epic. Thanks again I really appreciate your help.--HuntingMoomins 16:53, 26 August 2010 (UTC)

You're very welcome, HuntingMoomins. I am sorry for the time you were out of the game, but glad that all worked out well in the end. I cannot tell you how much fun I had playing with Guild Wars players during the Gamescom demo -- hope to see you someday in Guild War 2! -- Gaile 04:25, 27 August 2010 (UTC)