Feedback talk:John Stumme/Archive 1

Haruhi

Wow, an anime fan, what animes do you like other than haruhi? I myself have gotten into azumanga daioh, currently working my way through the omnibus volume C4K3 Talk 21:57, 15 October 2009 (UTC)

*coughs* Excuse the lateness of this, I've been so busy with things, I've sort of forgotten to check this page entirely. >>; I've watched something in the neighborhood of 200+ series by now, and there's a lot of stuff that I like across different genres. It can really run the gamut from shows like Boogiepop Phantom, to Nagasarete Airantou. I haven't been watching as much new stuff lately (aside from K-On!, Durarara) because it seems like so many of the new shows coming out are very... same-y. It's like everyone is trying to out-moe each other. I love cute character designs as much as the next guy, but I also like some substance every now and then, too. Oh, and by the way, Azumanga is fantastic. John Stumme 18:32, 2 June 2010 (UTC)

Just a hi to a fellow haruhist! :P Hope you watched the movie, it totally makes up for the torture that is Endless Eight. RazoR39999 22:39, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

I'll never understand what's so special about that selfish sourceress... anyways, nice to see you like "Durarara!" Loved that one. Not many good series lately, so it was nice to see that one. If you like that you may like Bacanno! too, it has a similar style. If you liked Azumanga, I think you'll love reading Yostsuba. They'll probably never make an anime of that (the author doesn't think a proper anime version could be done) but the manga is great, nevertheless. MithTalk 01:52, 20 November 2010 (UTC)

The Adventures of Seacats *cough*

Knowing you're a Higurashi fan, have you dived into the Umineko series yet? I bought the soundnovel when the translation up to EP4 was finally done and really enjoyed it (Higurashi translations coming end of the year I heard). The anime is doing so-so, but that's mainly because they gotta cut and shorten a lot of stuff. Also, have you ever finished that cardgame you mentioned? Karuro 16:18, 30 October 2009 (UTC)

I've almost finished Umineko - there's things about it that I really like, the idea of this interesting game being played that is a test of willpower (sort of like how it was a battle of wits that made the interesting part of Death Note good.) But there's also some meh to it that I'm hoping gets cleared up at the end before I pass judgment on it. And I've got most of the card game work done - it's mostly at a point where I would need to get people to hammer on it relentlessly until the numbers of the game are balanced out. Getting decent prototypes made is quite a pain - I finished another card game a few months ago, and sadly, they only exist on index cards that need to be redrawn from time to time. ^^;; John Stumme 18:37, 2 June 2010 (UTC)

The knife... the knife... now I remembered something I wish I wouldn't.... the knife... MithTalk 01:53, 20 November 2010 (UTC)

An interesting pattern

I know you aren't working on GW1 anymore, but since you were around at the beginning, you'd understand this better than Linsey. What is the deal with all the sixes in GW? 6 original Gods, Abaddon himself is a 6 themed God, seals in Abaddon's mouth end up being six, six core Professions, and a bunch more six-themed things make me wonder who on the team had a thing for the number six. Or is it all a lovely bit of chance? Or is it Numerology-based? Answer, because the sixes are driving me crazy. Katherinezoltin 22:37, 27 November 2009 (UTC)

Legend of Zelda, everything is in threes. Crazy stuff like this just happens. — Jon Lupen 04:17, 28 November 2009 (UTC)

Isn't there a point to the 3's in Legend of Zelda though? I mean, the triforce thing? Where is GW's equivalent to the triforce? Definably not Abaddon's eyes, that came too late (the equivalent should of been in the first installment - i.e., Prophecies). -- Konig/talk 12:48, 28 November 2009 (UTC)

Since there are only 5 bloodstones it has to be a coincidence, I mean surely if they were 6-themed they would have made 6 bloodstones C4K3 Talk 20:48, 11 January 2010 (UTC)

The exception marks the rule, at least I heard 82.95.65.117 14:54, 23 February 2010 (UTC)

There are 5 bloodstones... as far as you know. — Raine Valen 3:18, 25 Jul 2010 (UTC)

Actually, five is far more likely to be the theme than six. Five gods originally, five bloodstones, five elder dragons, five playable races in GW2, five caster professions and five non-caster professions. -- Konig/talk 04:16, 25 July 2010 (UTC)

Happy Birthday!

Congratulations =) -- Cyan 13:42, 9 April 2010 (UTC)

... very belatedly, thank you! John Stumme 18:38, 2 June 2010 (UTC)

I wish... I were... a bird?

Oh my gah!? Suddendly, that came up to my mind for some reason.--Fighterdoken 05:13, 7 June 2010 (UTC)

That remains one of my favorite scenes out of any anime that I've watched. XD John Stumme 15:35, 7 June 2010 (UTC)

Congratulations

For your new position.--Sharkinu 18:58, 23 July 2010 (UTC)

Congratulations! Also, pics of this "awesome desk" please? :D Shadow Runner 18:59, 23 July 2010 (UTC)

Congrats! Now tell us everything that's in the works :p. Manifold 19:00, 23 July 2010 (UTC)

Grats man! Way to move on up! Clobimon Craiggy 20:02, 23 July 2010 (UTC)

Congrats John!! We're all really looking forward to the future of Gulid Wars with you!! --Musha 22:32, 23 July 2010 (UTC)

Welcome to the land of the busy wiki page Spooky. In a few months, you'll have to close this thing down because people talk way too much in it. Katherinezoltin 19:14, 24 July 2010 (UTC)

Congratulations! --Sarge69 02:29, 25 July 2010 (UTC)

Thanks all! John Stumme 18:53, 26 July 2010 (UTC)

I am still left wondering. What will change? Anyway congrats. --Boro 20:43, 26 July 2010 (UTC)

Congratulations! I'm jealous, I think this kind of job would be so much fun to do. (Satanael | talk) 15:51, 28 July 2010 (UTC)

Preview

So, I tried to be patient, but I can't wait. I'm just too excited that John is the new Live Team Lead. Could you kinda give us a preview into what you have planned? Will you be carrying on with the War in Kryta/Gwen & Thackeray/Missing Evennia content? Can we look forward to a progression of that story soon? Are you able to share some of the other things you have planned? I bet everything is really hectic now with the change over, but if you could give us a small preview into what you've got planned, it would be so cool!! Thanks! --Musha 16:06, 26 July 2010 (UTC)

Well, I can at least tell you that we're going to be wrapping up one of those major storylines, and I think we've got some pretty cool things planned for it. One of the others, well, it's not forgotten but I think we might hold onto it for a while (as it will be part of another storyline.) We're also starting to plan out the next major story arc that'll happen (Cantha? Elona? Mystery!) ... is that vague but enticing enough? XD John Stumme 18:57, 26 July 2010 (UTC)

Yes, that was a great answer. Sure got my curiosity satisfied enough but left my interest piqued. Thanks!! --Musha 22:00, 26 July 2010 (UTC)

← moved to User_talk:Borotvaltgandalf

Just out of curiosity

Do you have an account on http://www.myanimelist.net ? elix Omni 15:29, 28 July 2010 (UTC)

In-game name?

Many of the other devs have in-game name that they use for players to contact them. Do you happen to have one too? :O ~Farlo Talk 19:58, 7 August 2010 (UTC)

Something to look at

Hey John, Since you are the new lead for the GW Live Team, I'd like you to please take a look at this: http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Feedback:User/Wicca/What_Should_have_been_done_to_HB

I know that you guys are extremely busy working on the GvG update and Dervish skill balance but I'd like to re-visit this issue. The removal of HB and TA is one of the biggest failures of Arenanet (no disrespect intended). It was removed without any proper explanation as to why it couldn't be fixed in the first place. That link outlines all the things Anet could have done to HB in order to improve it. The main excuse of not fixing it was that there were not enough resources to do so. However, you guys are fixing GvG, so you are definitely capable of fixing HB and TA (you obviously do have the resources) and that is why that event has become so significant, because Anet could have fixed it, but they didn't, leaving many dedicated HB and TAers very disappointed and betrayed.

I am not asking you to stop what you are doing now in GW to fix HB and TA. I am asking you to take a look at my link (and the discussion) and consider doing something about it. Even if it just re-implementing HB and TA. Codex Arena died within a month of its release. HB and TA lasted over 4 years with a dedicated playerbase. Many people have been asking Anet to do something about the problems in CA now and I feel that the best way to fix CA is to remove it (hmm, that sounds familiar . . .) and re-introduce HB and TA fixed or un-fixed. At this point, the un-fixed versions if HB and TA would be miles better than CA and more people would play it. Also, re-implementing HB and TA would mean that less resources would have to be used (yay!) since you won't be fixing anything.

Thanks for reading what I had to say, really appreciate it. Wicca 11:59, 21 August 2010 (UTC)

No and Yes--Neil2250 12:05, 21 August 2010 (UTC)

+1 for bringing back HB. just dont bing back the zaishen q for it, that way people who realy liked it can play it and the others wont have a reason to complain on it being farmed.84.196.205.90 16:06, 21 August 2010 (UTC)

Errr, they need to do a lot more to fix HB than they need to fix GvG. - Mini Me 18:51, 21 August, 2010 (UTC)

I wouldn't mind a return of TA, but HB seemed... silly. Far too easy to exploit... maybe if the party sizes were increased, or the number of heroes brought were decreased (for instance, a party of 6 with a mandatory 3 heroes being brought, no more no less, and a person can only bring 1 hero). But really, it's not that big of a deal - so long as maps stay in use... *cough* -- Konig/talk 21:09, 21 August 2010 (UTC)

@Konig. Just remember that you thinking HB was silly is your opinion, not everyone's. I know you probably never enjoyed HB but just because someone doesn't enjoy something, doesn't mean it needs to be removed/shouldn't have been made. To me, some of the lore in GW is quite silly, but that's my opinion and I don't go around voicing that since I know people love it. That's one of the problems we had with HB, the people that didn't like it just didn't care that there were people that enjoyed HB, which created the illusion that HB was terrible (which it was not, just difficult to master). If you read my link (and discussion) you would see that most of the "exploits" in HB would no longer exist if those changes were made.

On another note: One thing I wasn't pleased about was the fact that Anet could have prevented ALL of the problems in HB before it got to the state it was in before removal. They used to have monthly skill updates/balancing but not once did they address the issues that were starting to rise in HB. They ignored the HBers who made very good suggestions to fix those problems. There was nothing done to keep it in check. They allowed it to become the way it was and the HBers paid the price for it. My link compiles most of those suggestions that the HBers made that would have made HB a more fun/balanced format.Wicca 04:58, 22 August 2010 (UTC)

Should be noted that the reason why I found HB silly was purely due to red resign, a player-made concept - the biggest issue of HB, and something that cannot be done (as easily) with more people, hence the idea I brought up. HB's only bad quality in my perfectly honest opinion was the fact that it was technically a 1 on 1. If people didn't do the whole red resign thing, then I would say that HB wouldn't have gotten removed. It was exploited <--- that's why it was removed, not because people found it silly or didn't enjoy it. Because it was faulty. Yes, there were and are ways to fix it, but with the outpost being used up now... I don't see it coming back. Unless the format of the arena is changed greatly to avoid the exploiting, then it won't come back even if a new place can be found for it (such as the TA outpost). -- Konig/talk 05:30, 22 August 2010 (UTC)

If you paid any attention at all (and read other sub-forums rather than just druids overlook), you would know that HB wasn't removed because of RR-Day. RR-Day was created as a way for players to obtain their commander ranks before HB got removed. Linsey announced the removal in August, RR-day started after it. A select few people did it even when HB was going good but it was never made public and was done between a group of friends only. In my link, one suggestion was to increase the commander points given at higher ranks and another suggestion was to remove/nerf the hb zquest , therefore, defeating the purpose of Red Resign at low ranks. I can safely assume that you have never actually tried HB, only Red Resign.Wicca 06:00, 22 August 2010 (UTC)

I beg to differ... RR Day was created LONG before they announced the removal of HB. It was talked about and complained about by many. -- Wyn talk 06:16, 22 August 2010 (UTC)

I never said RRday, I said "red resign" - I do not mean the days (zaishen quest days, mostly, I believe) which people near unanimously resigned if they were red, and as Wyn said such a thing existed well before the announcement of HB's removal. I actually do leave the lore community - I just don't post elsewhere, especially on Guru1 now that Guru2 is around. Do not think that I'm a person who only knows of lore and nothing else within the community. -- Konig/talk 06:22, 22 August 2010 (UTC)

I never said that it didn't exist before the announcement of HB's removal. I did say that it only became a problem after the announcement and hence, was not the reason it was removed. @Wyn, care to provide some evidence? If you can, I will happily accept your statement =). I am a Hero Battler and I've HB'd in every corner of the ladder. I read the HB sub-forum and the only instance when the concept of red resign was talked about was when people started doing it before HB got removed. Before, people did /roll 100 but that was then nerfed. Red resign was done by very few people (usually groups of friends) after /roll was nerfed and it never became a public thing until after Linsey announced HB's removal. I remember the thread was started by Ares. He was trying to gather a group of people to do it with him to help him get max commander. Soon, it became a huge thing that thousands of people did. John, I'd like to apologize for cluttering up your talk page. It would have been much better if you guys read my link before posting.Wicca 07:51, 22 August 2010 (UTC)

I see some people think HB was removed just because of RR day. While that was a problem, HB had other issues that were far worse. First of all, the arena favored overly defensive builds too much. Many teams consisted of only 1 character with an offense, and some even had no offense at all while still being able to win. Also, out of the already shallow pool of usable skills, heroes are unable to use a lot of them properly, which led to just a small number of builds seeing play. Another big problem was that some of the arenas (well, at least 1) had severe pathing issues, getting heroes stuck often. As Anet did not have the resources to fix all of those problems including RR day in a reasonable timespan, they opted to remove it (and with it the ever-stale TA) instead. Koda Kumi 22:31, 22 August 2010 (UTC)

Momentum is building: http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/add-poll-see-who-wants-t10449827.html Read what Sauron the Greatest, Elnino and Thevil King have said. They are real HBers.Wicca 03:02, 29 August 2010 (UTC)

Some people over there actually make good points (well, good points for Guru standards, that is). However, a lot has to change to make it worthwhile, and Anet simply does not have the resources to do so. Koda Kumi 15:01, 11 September 2010 (UTC)

a humble question...

Hi I know you are obviously busy and whatnot, but I was wondering if by any chance you could reduce the grind at the beginning of NF. please! --Drewlark 99 (1337) File:User Drewlark99 Shield Stance.jpg 21:20, 26 August 2010 (UTC)

I support this notion: farming SS title every time I roll a NF character makes me want to go hamster golfing. — Raine Valen 21:27, 26 Aug 2010 (UTC)

fill out books?/vanquish?- Zesbeer 09:22, 6 October 2010 (UTC)

Books and vanquish is impossible when you're grinding to become level 5/12/20 or get a high enough SS title in order to progress in the storyline. Which was done so that the exp rewards wouldn't be as high as Factions' exp rewards and people would still be lvl 20 by the time they left the island. Or so I recall from something (perhaps it was the Making of GW:NF video; or a transcript of the informational video that came with the NF pre-order). -- Konig/talk 16:46, 6 October 2010 (UTC)

you can still do books... and i just got farryed to factions and got all my lvls there.- Zesbeer 21:54, 6 October 2010 (UTC)

Assume the person doesn't have Factions or Prophecies, or Eye of the North. You cannot go elsewhere, you cannot do books (the only book you can do on starter island, when grinding in NF is most prevalent, are HM requirement - the rest needs half of the campaign excluding the starter island's missions). So no, you cannot still do books. -- Konig/talk 22:32, 6 October 2010 (UTC)

its not that hard to get off of the starter island if you do the side quests you will have rank in no time.- Zesbeer 23:05, 6 October 2010 (UTC)

There is a reason why most of my characters are Factions characters... --Lania 23:09, 06 October 2010 (UTC)

I know, I was merely stating that books and vanquish wouldn't work. -- Konig/talk 00:09, 7 October 2010 (UTC)

im sticking to that they will work you just need to get off the island."we got to go back kate"- Zesbeer 00:51, 7 October 2010 (UTC)

Yeah, you said that like 3 times already, and you're missing the point. --Lania 01:58, 07 October 2010 (UTC)

Not sure who you meant, Lania, since both Zesbeer and I stated what we were stating multiple times, but if you meant me: I was playing the devils advocate and I know that grind is not much in NF, but still in order to simply get off the island you do need to grind to some degree and books, vanquishing, and in fact going off the island is irrelevant to the point that was trying to be made by the OP which was that in order to get to the books, to HM, or simply off the island, in any shape, you need to get to either to level 12, I think, or rank 6 sunspear. There's only three ways to do this: bounties, side-quests, the main storyline. Just the last is not enough, forcing the first two. You can get enough points from just the side quests, but some of those also require certain levels or ranks, or position in the storyline, before appearing.

The complaint made by the OP, which Zesbeer still doesn't get it would seem, is that to get off the island - in any form - one needs to go out of their way to progress either their level or their title. It would be pointless, by what the OP means, to simply "go back." -- Konig/talk 02:37, 7 October 2010 (UTC)

To clarify, I meant zesbeer not you. ^_^. --Lania 03:55, 07 October 2010 (UTC)

A bit of WiK lore clarification plz

Hi John, I had a couple questions about some WiK content that I'm hoping you could answer if you have the time. There's a bit of a debate about who Rigo Bolan actually is since Lt. Thackeray says, "There is actually a sixth member of the falcons. You may have already met him without realizing it." Some speculation says that he is Vael, others say he is just the Ebon Vanguard Assassin Support guy, could you please tell us who he really is or where we've met him before? Also, there are a few people missing in post-Battle for Lion's Arch-Lion's Arch, such as, Gavin, Mary Farson, and the Bronwell brothers. Were they killed during the battle? Thanks!! --Musha 06:38, 9 September 2010 (UTC)

John hasn't had the time since he took over Linsey's job. Look at his contributions. elix Omni 04:52, 7 October 2010 (UTC)

You know, I'm actually not sure. Have you tried asking Linsey? I can at least say this much about the Ebon Vanguard: Joe is kind of bummed that no one thinks that the Ebon Vanguard Sniper Support fellow is actually Keiran. John Stumme 19:50, 5 November 2010 (UTC)

Isn't Nola Sheppard a necromancer...? That makes me think that Rigo Bolan may no longer be alive... MithTalk 01:29, 6 November 2010 (UTC)

"I've always felt that Mister Rigo is a little shy. Maybe that's why he's always hiding. He gave me this whistle though, before we left the Eye. Apparently, if I blow on it, he'll appear and help us." She isn't using a spell. It's not necromancy. -- Konig/talk 01:38, 6 November 2010 (UTC)

Tell Joe that someone did think Keiran was the sniper, but the comment got shot down and attacked, then people got off track in the conversation. --Mora 01:49, 6 November 2010 (UTC)

Probably because the skill existed in the game (upon EotN's release) prior to Thackeray's introduction for Wintersday. People were using the skill before he even existed, (it's likely ArenaNet didn't even plan for Thackeray to exist at that point in time). 58.111.64.227 05:50, 12 November 2010 (UTC)

However, Rigo wasn't introduced until the War in Kryta - the same time that Keiran gets his sniper skill. Yet people think Rigo is either Vael or the support guy - both introduced long before both Rigo and Keiran. And Keiran's older. -- Konig/talk 05:59, 12 November 2010 (UTC)

Haha, yeah, I suppose I could try asking Linsey. Though, she rarely posted on the wiki while she was the Live Team Lead. And now that she has a different job, would it even be worth asking? :P --Musha 10:13, 12 November 2010 (UTC)

Survivor in Nightfall Tutorial

Hey, I ran across this on this wiki. You should take a look: Survivor in Nightfall Tutorial --Jyotir Managatim 16:45, 16 October 2010 (UTC)

WiK Feedback Survey

One unaddressed topic in your results post (http://www.arena.net/blog/what-does-it-all-mean-john-stumme-discusses-war-in-kryta-survey-results) is the delivery of the Cantha content. Will it still be drawn out at an ungodly long pace like WiK was, or will it be more of a couple updates and we'll have it all at once? I know a lot of people lost interest in WiK because it was rolled out over so long a time. --71.182.184.77 01:36, 19 October 2010 (UTC)

He did address the topic: "There’s not too much to change here—the Canthan arc will run for a similar amount of time as the War in Kryta, but our goal is to make sure that there’s more content coming along with it." In other words, it will last as long, but there will be more content to do so I would think that there won't be so much long waiting time. -- Konig/talk

Yeah, generally speaking, I would prefer to have something that hits in either one really big update, or two or three sizable ones. It's an unfortunate reality of development that we can literally spend days creating a quest that a player can blow through in 10 to 15 minutes. So when something is coming out every week, it can almost be a detriment when players start going "That's it?" I'd rather take time to ensure that we're happy with the scale and polish of what's going out, and having it be a memorable experience. John Stumme 19:37, 5 November 2010 (UTC)

On WiK Survey Results

YAY!!! Thank you for showing us the results and how you plan to incorporate them! I'm VERY excited about the new changes you've announced as well as the upcoming Canthan content. --Musha 18:26, 19 October 2010 (UTC)

Speaking of Updates, when's the derv one happening. We've seen you alter the primary text, sooooooo, when's it coming? >:) 203.118.171.225 18:27, 19 October 2010 (UTC)

I'd like to think that Robert is just altering text to build dramatic tension and speculation. XD John Stumme 19:52, 5 November 2010 (UTC)

Wintersday Tree Costume

I mean yeah if u could pull something off like that the elf tonic is old be nice to have some new wintersday flavor or even as a costume that be so epic John! But We never know wat u guys cook up for the holidays so u can just surprise me but i think it be a cool idea u know star mask and christmas tree outfit with ornimates and stuff. Thanx and u chould definately check out Angel Beats! Best anime I've seen in a grip!

I'll have to take a look at the series, thanks for the recommendation! Being a tree would be sort of amusing - the first thing that came to mind was the mental image of elementary school plays, little kids in tree costumes with a hole for their face to poke out of. XD Should give Gwen's Hide buff if you aren't moving. Well, I don't think we can pull off something that amazing for Wintersday, but we do at least have Kekai working on making us some awesome new costumes. He's got his work cut out for him after the Halloween ones. XD John Stumme 19:43, 5 November 2010 (UTC)

O_o I'd prefer something you can actually use around... without crystal balls all over, if possible... I'm always saying that I would pay anything for one armor exactly like the Ebon Vanguard's. With that cool helm and all. MithTalk 01:32, 6 November 2010 (UTC)

Oh and by the by, my fiance and I started watching Angel Beats!, and got through three episodes of it tonight. It's pretty amazing, and we are most definitely hooked. We're looking forward to watching more and seeing where it goes! John Stumme 06:26, 9 November 2010 (UTC)

Costume Brawl 2010

I remember you mentioning somewhere that you guys were developing builds for this year's costume brawl. So, just in case this is a bug... This year's builds are the exact same as last year's. --Musha 19:47, 21 October 2010 (UTC)

You are talking to a wall. Koda Kumi 20:09, 21 October 2010 (UTC)

I'd like to think of myself less as a wall, and more as a bas relief - at least it's interesting to contemplate if it isn't talking back. The time I have to spend on the Wiki is considerably less these days while I'm trying to get things done, but I do try to make it a point to pop in every now and then. John Stumme 19:39, 5 November 2010 (UTC)

That was fixed on a later update. MithTalk 08:14, 22 October 2010 (UTC)

CB was Fun! Hope there's something like it in the sequel. Still pretty bummed about losing every single Waiting Game tho :( --ilr 17:01, 6 November 2010 (UTC)

Lunatic Court Quests (so far)

are totally awesome! Thanks a lot for the new area and fun quest line! :D Thumbs up to you and the team! --★KOKUOU★ 03:22, 26 October 2010 (UTC)

You've been fantastic, sir! Keep it up! You added so much for this Halloween and edited the dialogues from the quests from last year to make it make sense! Thank you very much! Cheers for the costumes and the additional Costume Brawl armor looks, new builds and a new area! And thanks for the cool masks for when they do come this Halloween. ArenaNet made a wise decision to put you in charge of GW1. Thanks. --203.206.83.205 02:12, 30 October 2010 (UTC)

Thanks! I'm glad to see that, overall, Halloween went over so well. I know that there were some people who were a little disappointed that the Lunatic Court quest line didn't resolve itself this year (and just what is the deal with that Lich, anyway?) but that doesn't mean we're dropping the storyline entirely until next Halloween. Some little reverberations of what's going on might be felt along the way. John Stumme 18:56, 5 November 2010 (UTC)

Lieutenant Thackeray

In a purely game related sense, if there is any way that my character can help with the retrieval of Lieutenant Thackeray then I'd like to help out where I can. He's got my back, I think it only fair that I have his. Kilraanon 23:18, 26 October 2010 (UTC)

Wait until the new GW:B content comes. Before then, at least, you can't help with finding Thackeray. May or may not with the next content. -- Konig/talk 23:21, 26 October 2010 (UTC)

Don't worry, you'll have your chance to help out Lieutenant Thackeray in the very near future John Stumme 18:53, 5 November 2010 (UTC)

"very near future"! :o :D --★KOKUOU★ 23:40, 5 November 2010 (UTC)

He must be back before Wintersday, or else there'll be no one to give us the festival quests... Idmz 13:36, 9 November 2010 (UTC)

I like the future, but the very near future sounds better! MithTalk 22:53, 9 November 2010 (UTC)

Just a Question

I was just wondering how the upcoming wedding is going work without certain emotes in place. After all, it won't be as believable if the characters are just standing there in front of everyone unable to do what the game can't at this time have them do but which would be natural to do in such a setting. Also, I wanted to know why Gwen's character was chosen to have her story expanded post-EOTN rather than others, rather than leave it open with nothing further added after the Wintersday quest. Are other characters going to get similar treatment?

Oh and there was one more thing. I enjoyed the WiK content, but again I often felt that our character was marginal at best in the whole thing as is often the case in GW1. Often it seemed there was no reason for us to be there when the dialogues were going on, so nonexistent was our character's input in them. It made it feel like it didn't really matter that our character was part of it at all. It should have been our character reporting Thackeray's disappearance and Langmar's passing to Gwen, for example, not some group of characters that had never even existed before WiK (yet we're somehow supposed to believe they were always part of the Vanguard, like Thackeray himself, who wasn't even in EOTN when it first came out but was thrown in later). I hope with future content our character will be more integrated and involved in the dialogues, as you've already proven can be done (with the new Halloween quests). Thanks! --Nathe 16:40, 12 November 2010 (UTC)

i think gwen was picked because she has been a npc who has been with most of us from the start (ie beta ph) and they wanted to expand her story because before eotn all we knew about that little girl is when she goes crazy she goes crazy. and that she liked to follow you and heal you sometimes and have a flute and ware capes.- Zesbeer 23:27, 12 November 2010 (UTC)

The player character is going to be considerably more involved in Winds of Change, for certain. I don't want the player to just be a bystander for the story. As for the wedding - are your thoughts on emotes predicated on it being a traditional wedding? Since we are in a fantasy setting, there can be different ways of going about things. As for Gwen, well, it's really a case of an NPC taking on a life of their own. I'd like the wedding to be a fitting cap point to her story for some time to come though, so that we can focus on telling new stories. And also to take a break from all of the romance. ^^; John Stumme 00:02, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

I can understand that, and thanks for answering. ^_^ --Nathe 16:49, 14 November 2010 (UTC)

I need to do a professional writing assignment where I must interview someone related to my career path...

Do you think you could help? You are a game developer, correct?

I have to get this done by Sunday. I love what you guys do in this game.

I am not sure if I can share my email here... if not I'll edit it out... hirohito6565@yahoo.com

What kind of education did you have to get to your current position and what is your professional background?

What positions, if any, did you have before this one?

What previous position did you have or educational background did you have that best prepare you for this current line of work?

what is your best mode of professional communication and which do you use the most?

What advice can you give me to get a job this this type of career or succeed in this type of career?

Yumiko ^,~ 17:17, 17 November 2010 (UTC)

I would be interested in this since I too want to take Stumme's job from him. *cough* -- Konig/talk 17:19, 17 November 2010 (UTC)

I hope he gets back to me. I rally can't find any other option for this class of mine...Yumiko ^,~ 18:11, 17 November 2010 (UTC)

I don't mind answering, but I'm afraid I might not be the best candidate, because I'm more a product of experience than I am of education. I have a high school diploma, and I spent some time at a technical school to work on my programming. The most useful classes that I took away from school as it pertains to my job were the creative writing electives - I was blessed to have a very good teacher that looked to instill ways of looking at things, rather than strict rules of language. Programming was interesting, but I was mostly self taught - I started writing my first game in QBasic when I was 11, and eventually moved on to VB and C++. It's helpful for the job though, because there's a certain kind of analytical mindset that a person needs to have to handle scripting (and more specifically bugfixing scripting ^^;).

My professional experience before ArenaNet is, without joking, limited to having worked at a local deli when I was a teenager, and then working for my parent's business (my dad is a general contractor.) Work was the thing that allowed me to support myself, and finance my gaming hobby in the meantime. I have quite literally grown up as a gamer - my first system was an Intellivision, and I've owned just about every major console or handheld that has come along since then. I have played games pretty exhaustively, but that in itself isn't enough to end up in a design field - you really need to train yourself to look at the things that games are doing, why, what works, what doesn't, and how you think it could be improved. Game design is an imprecise science of trying to quantify "fun" and there is no better substitute than personal experience.

I was very actively involved in the fan forums (Guild Wars OGaming, Guild Wars Guru) which was how I ended up in the Guild Wars alpha test, and came to know members of the ArenaNet staff. This ultimately led to my first job within the company, Community Relations, which I worked at for a year. I'd like to believe that has been a useful experience to my current position - it has better equipped me for interacting with fans, and making sure that there is some personality behind what we do - not just faceless updates that happen every now and then. During my time with Community Relations, I stayed very active with the alpha test for Guild Wars campaigns (Factions, part of Nightfall) before I moved over to a design position. That's what I had been doing for... four years, I believe? before moving over to lead design for the Live Team. That time was spent learning and refining my trade - going from incredibly simple quests (go here, kill mans) to more structured storytelling experiences (Gwen's BMP mission.)

On the topic of communication - there is absolutely no substitute for face to face communication. Design requires a communication of not just ideas, but intent. You could send an e-mail saying "I want a sword made of fire." and an artist can very likely do that for you. Or you can talk to them, explaining why you want it - why you think it's cool - and from that, they'll have their own ideas of "You know what else could be awesome? This other thing!" that might fit what you wanted even better. Good communication and cooperation makes ideas better.

As for my advice for people looking to get into the field... above anything else, be passionate. Passion is the driving force that will get you through all of the other hardships along the way. Passion is a thing that, when you have it, other people can very clearly see it and that can be the thing that separates a good candidate from a great one. Start studying games, the same as an author reads other books, as an artist learns from other works. Look for ways to get involved, and work your way up - it's very, very rare that people start in the industry as designers. Don't let that discourage you, and take the opportunities you can get, and take them seriously. A lot of people want QA jobs as an "easy in" to the design path, but generally, people can tell when your heart isn't in your work - if you take that job seriously, then people know that you care about your responsibilities, and would do the same for other positions you may someday hold. So I guess the stark reality of it is that it isn't easy to get here, but when you do, you realize just how worth it the journey was. John Stumme 19:23, 17 November 2010 (UTC)

Wow, awesome advice :-) --hnzdvn 20:23, 17 November 2010 (UTC)

Wow! Comes to show you can make the most out of yourself in life and it doesn't always require a degree in something. I wish other people I know would come to to understanding on that. Thanks a lot John, this will do fine.24.92.216.210 21:31, 17 November 2010 (UTC)-Yumiko.

Elementalist suggestion

In response to the debate of Fire Elementalists being overpowered or the only viable Elementalist class, what if Earth Magic had a higher damage and resistance against Fire Magic, Fire Magic had a higher damage and resistance to Air Magic, Air Magic had a higher damage and resistance to Water Magic, and Water Magic had a higher damage and resistance to Earth Magic?

For Guild Wars 2 perhaps. --The preceding unsigned comment was added by User:Caretaker (talk).

Feedback:Main 63.232.208.113 19:36, 17 November 2010 (UTC)

Aftercast delays

Why are they there? I've never really understood what they're supposed to do, other than provide an artificial increase in difficulty. I'm mostly a PvE player and it feels only natural to want to move out of the way of an incoming enemy once I've used a skill, but aftercast prevents that for no rational purpose that I can see. Being unable to move simply because you've used a skill doesn't feel like the way combat should be. It should let you be mobile and not punish you for trying to dodge a hostile attack after you've used a skill or spell, because usually the aftercast delay is long enough for an enemy to close the distance between it and you and hit you before you can avoid it. Or catch up to you while you're trying to back off. It's just my opinion, but I think aftercast delays should be removed entirely, at least from PvE. I don't know enough about PvP to say how it would affect that part of the game. Thanks for your time and attention. ^_^ --Nathe 00:54, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

I think they exist specifically for the reason you don't like them: they allow a melee character to reliably attack actively-casting casters. Without aftercast, playing any kind of melee would be a pain. — Raine Valen 1:38, 18 Nov 2010 (UTC)

lol aftercasts are a good thing and provide lots of balance to the game the reason they were introduced in the first place was because of instagib assassins who would tp to you kill you before you could do anything and for the most part probably wont be removed. and i for one am glad they wont be. - Zesbeer 01:55, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

Uhh what? I was under the impression that every spell has had a .75 aftercast since the game was released, excluding random shit like the 2 shadowsteps that havent had it tacked on there and dwarven stability. 98.248.90.248 02:02, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

Yeah, uh. Aftercast existed long before Shadowsteps got them. :l — Raine Valen 2:43, 18 Nov 2010 (UTC)

Aftercast is not a punishment. At least, no more than the follow-through animation on an attack in a fighting game. They allow the game creators to reward quick decision making and timing without breaking the intended pacing of the game. You can literally do nothing other than spam quick jabs to force opponents into their recovery animation permanently in bad fighting games. In Guild Wars history, Ranger Interrupt Turrets were an example of this problem at its worst. Without aftercasts, expect most spells to have 1 extra second cast time added, and all cast time reduction effects to be hammered. MA Anathe 00:43, 20 November 2010 (UTC)

Edit: That's a bad analogy, since it's an issue with the recovery/counter system. Not sure where my brain is right now. MA Anathe 01:13, 20 November 2010 (UTC)

Gwen's reunion with Sarah

I was just wondering if it was supposed to be canon, as in it actually happened lorewise. Because after you take Gwen to UW and she reunites with her mom, Gwen never later acknowledges it happened, never gives your character a word of thanks. And her behavior post-EOTN doesn't seem at all affected by what her mother said, she acts the same as she did before. So I was wondering if it was even meant to be canon at all. Also, is her trip with a Proph PC back to Ascalon canon and part of what actually happened lorewise in the GW timeline, or not? Again, her behavior in the rest of the game and post-EOTN doesn't seem to reflect the act of having dealt with her past as outside that quest she's still burdened by it, which makes little sense unless the quest wasn't supposed to be part of the actual lore and GW timeline. But if that's the case, if it didn't really happen and didn't really matter and didn't have any effect on her outside that quest, why was it there? --Nathe 16:13, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

If you've read comic books much, this is probably something you're familiar with - when the character remains the same, but the author changes hands. One person may feel that Batman should be a brilliant detective, while someone else might feel he should be an abusive psychopath. Way back in the Eye of the North days, I wrote the Underworld and Gwen returns to Ascalon content with the assumption that I was writing the end of her story. It was meant to provide resolution to her past, some signs that she would be living out a better future, and that would be that. I didn't know back then that her story would be revisited, and that much of her former angst was going to be brought back - but it's something I've tried to resolve again with the upcoming content. I really feel like she deserves to get a happy ending, so that we can move on and start to tell some new stories. So, sorry about any of the confusion that this might have caused - but on the bright side, at least we don't have decades worth of retconning for people to wade through in explanation of why a character has died and returned to life dozens of times. ^^; John Stumme 18:27, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

You can always say it's because Shiro punched reality and so caused some ripples through the world that magically made Gwen forget about what her mother had said and about what she had seen at Ascalon (a cookie for people who get that reference). Erasculio 21:58, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

I understand what you're saying, John, but my question still remains. Are those parts of the story part of the canon lore and GW timeline or not? Did they actually happen in GW lore or not? --Nathe 22:08, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

They are intended to be part of the lore, yes. John Stumme 22:35, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

Perhaps a reflection on those happenings showing that they help(ed) Gwen cope would be something to add. -- Konig/talk 22:43, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

Thanks for clearing that up for me, John. And I agree with Konig that it would be nice if something were added like what he said. --Nathe 23:19, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

If you think about it, a simple conversation with her mother and returning to Ascalon to cut down her greatest enemy of the charr (greatest as in having the most influence on her troubles), that won't solve everything in a blink of an eye. In fact, for the later, a major theme in entertainment is that fulfilling one's revenge merely makes one worse. Did she get closure? Yes, but it could easily be played out that the closure of killing one little charr wasn't enough. She wanted to kill more. These two events would of both helped and hurt Gwen (for the meeting with Sarah, it could easily be explained that Gwen felt the need to avenge her mother's death even more after having seen her in the Underworld, or to prevent others from having to feel the way she felt, which only makes her hatred of charr and desire for seclusion stronger), effectively not doing much on their own. It can easily be twisted/said that these events, while having positive immediate effects, created negative long term effects, but Keiran brought those positive effects back out, along with new ones. -- Konig/talk 23:30, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

I'm glad her angst was cleaned up (a second time - I noticed this seemed to be a bit of a back track during WiK). When EotN was released I was super excited to see her again and she was my favourite hero even though I wanted to see more development with her and Pyre. I did like the way her return to Ascalon combined with the end of the Ebon Vanguard branch and actually goes somewhere. Fast forward to WiK and she is one of my most hated characters in gaming history, all that bitchy moaning (I kinda thought she was a parody of GW fans; her attitude was worse than GW Guru posters) - whoever wrote her for that ark was watching far too much Dawson's Creek, One Tree Hill and the O.C. Now I feel like she went from epic survivor from Ascalon to cry baby weak girl who treats good people like crud and is totally forgettable as a hero. It reminds me of my favourite quote from Angel, "Nothing in the world is the way it ought to be. It's harsh and cruel. But that's why there's us: champions. Doesn't matter where we come from, what we've done or suffered or even if we make a difference. We live as though the world were as it should be, to show it what it can be." Honestly, the work you've done on Thackeray makes me think he is fitting of the moniker of champion - I loved his evolution through Hearts of the North especially the effort you put in to make his development represented through gameplay in the form of paragon skills (gaining confidence and becoming a leader, someone strong and a beacon to others) as well as how easily he works together with Miku via their sniper and other combos. The way Gwen was written during the WiK, I'm glad Logan is Keiran's namesake and not hers. 58.111.81.184 13:08, 24 November 2010 (UTC)

About the new update

Was just reading the developer's notes and it said at one point, "If you've finished 'The Battle for Lion's Arch' and reported his disappearance to Gwen." However, we aren't the ones who report it - the Ebon Falcons do. We don't have a single line in that entire dialogue. So how can we be said to have reported it? We simply watched someone else report it, being so useless to the situation ourselves that we might as well not even have been there. I realize retroactive dialogue adjustments are unlikely, but maybe the developer's notes on the update could be adjusted to be a little more accurate in this regard instead of trying to hide how sidelined and uninvolved our character was in most of WiK. --Nathe 23:25, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

We were there. We just let the others speak for us. You see, after facing torment... we (the unnamed PC hero) eventually became the dark, brooding, quiet type. Haunted by what we've seen. So now we're just silently standing, watching events unfold. :3 -- Konig/talk 23:30, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

Speak for yourself. :p I prefer actually being involved in the dialogue, but that's just me. --Nathe 23:48, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

I was just making up an instantaneous situation for why the PC wouldn't respond. I was quickly reminded for what is said to have happened to every hero figure in Diablo and Diablo II (those that lived, went insane). -- Konig/talk 23:57, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

Also wanted to say I'm enjoying the new content so far, and Keiran's new look. He actually looks like a man now, hehe. :p --Nathe 01:43, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

This is just fantastic and awesome, John! We're having a blast with this new content! Give our regards to the team! --Musha 02:55, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

Oh and by the way, John, if Gwen ever has a daughter (aside from the obvious son, not that we'll ever see either in-game, but just in case it ever pops up in the lore), here's the perfect name for her — Iris. Think about Gwen's history and you'll understand why. :) --Nathe 03:38, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

*Now has the song "Iris" in his head* I forwarded on the comment about Keiran to Kristen and Susan. Kristen was especially happy to see that people are pleased that he has manned up a bit (they didn't like his previous boy-next-door appearance.) John Stumme 04:18, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

Hehe. Glad to hear it. ^_^ One other thing. When will we see Gwen get a high-res CG render like Devona and co. have? She's on the same order of significance to the world of GW as they are, if not moreso now, and yet they all got that treatment and they're not even heroes, only henchmen. Jora, who has little significance outside EotN, has like six CGs. Melonni, Niku, and Xandra also all have one (Melonni being the NF cover girl, and Nika and Xandra the Factions cover girls). Even two generic characters (Proph warrior and nameless paragon, from the Proph and NF covers) have CG's, whereas Gwen as yet does not. I think she's earned it given how tied into the GW lore she's become. Can you see if it can be done at some point? Thanks! --Nathe 17:55, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

That's something I'm almost certain we wouldn't be able to get - those models were made by someone, somewhere, in some part of NCSoft - they weren't made in house. It's not really within my power to get things like that anymore. Kind of a bummer, but I do the best with what I've got! John Stumme 20:44, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

I like Keiran's new look in the sense that he looks so much like a creepy 35-40 year old bug-eyed caveman, that I laughed loudly when I first zoomed in on him. But honestly, I hope he cleans up for his wedding because he's going to look like a pedo beside her keeping his current look; he looks so much older than she is. XD--Res 20:37, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

Keiran will be getting a cleaned up, less haggard looking model by the time the wedding rolls around, yes. John Stumme 20:44, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

Aaaand, I just saw the scene where Gwen said the same thing. XD While I've been mostly sympathetic with him, a piece of me didn't really like him and was glad to see him look like he'd been living in a ditch for weeks, but even so, I'm happy to see him finally grow up. (Maybe now, if he ever gives us another quest again, he'll tag along for it? lol) But good lord, could Gwen have been any meaner about it? O_o--Res 23:19, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

I understand, John, and I admit it was a long shot. But thanks for answering. Though couldn't a new model be made for it instead of trying to get hold of an old one from NCSoft? --Nathe 03:56, 20 November 2010 (UTC)

@Nathe: Just a li'l bit offtopic here, but Xandra is not the Rit girl from Factions; Xandra only came to be during EotN. I think that was just an unnamed Rit. -- Large 15:12, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

And isn't the generic warrior Stefan and the generic paragon Sogolon? --Musha 21:19, 3 December 2010 (UTC)

Stefan has a very, very different armor (I think it's Chain Mail), and the Henchman Sogolon has hair. -- Large 18:19, 8 December 2010 (UTC)

I don't know about the warrior, but the paragon seems to be Sogolon. Not the Sogolon we know, but a dead one, from the skill Vocal Was Sogolon. MithTalk 13:42, 9 December 2010 (UTC)

But he's not ethereal? :x -- Konig/talk 19:05, 9 December 2010 (UTC)

(Reset indent) He was a regular paragon once too. Don't be mean. --ஸ Kyoshi 19:08, 9 December 2010 (UTC)

Shing Jea Monastery may we never forget thee?

I would just want to say that I've been in Shing Jea lately and I have been doing some work for ArenaNet on my own accord. I can safely say that I am the one responsible for the banning of two of the worst EULA offenders there and it caused a wave of change in that starter town for many new players that started GW this year. I am not looking to be a martyr or trying to take the job away from the staff that are so good to us and keep us playing this great game, but lately the things that go on in the local chats there these past few months are appalling. I'm not the only one and those that are equally upset with the conduct of these players(Should I even call them players? They are more like the worst in society socially IMHO.) want actions brought upon those that make it a horrible environment to play in (some of us have been conned into being suspended because of our own efforts to clean up). Maybe its time a high ranking member of arena net pay a visit and sit for 3 hours like we do some days and put an end to this pile of rotting flesh this town has become?

The reason I brought it to you is that Gaile Gray was the one that carried out the bans after we provided proof this sort of stuff was going on daily. I feel its now up to the community as a whole not just the players to stop the abuse of the rules. I just can't stand by any longer and watch some of my new friends fall victim to this garbage in Shing Jea.

Also I know this puts a larger target on my back from those that do not want this here, but if I didn't say anything, they will just be allowed to carry on with their grip on one of the most beloved areas in GW. Not even the yearly events held there are safe.

I do not not want this to occur again in Gw 2.

Thanks for your time.Yumiko ^,~ 02:55, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

Continuation of GW Beyond!

I would just like to spend a bit to thank you on updating GW with more GW beyond stuff! Other than the third item not being implemented yet, it's been fantastic and been very enjoyable!! We've received a lot of updates vs. time since you came aboard Mr Stumme, and it's been fantastic. Thanks for this update and Halloween to make GW such an enjoyable game again. I don't like costumes (not my thing), but I don't mind because you have so much new stuff for your beloved fans. I thank you for your constant work to keep this game new and fresh, and to bridge the gap to GW2. Thank you so much Mr. Stumme, have a great day.--124.148.206.131 02:27, 20 November 2010 (UTC)

Thanks! I'm glad to hear you're enjoying the new content. It's also nice to see it when people acknowledge that the costumes are optional, and that their gaming experience should not be ruined by their existence. ^^; I will be sure to share your kind words with the rest of the team as well! John Stumme 20:47, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

The War in Kryta

Not sure where to put this, but it seems like you've been active in the last few seconds. Could you take a look at the bug listed there, as it stops me from being able to continue WiK.–alistic 05:00, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

We are looking into getting that fixed - thanks! John Stumme 19:21, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

hearts of the north

Thank you and all others it's great! ^^ --The Holy Dragons 22:02, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

I concur, it's good fun. I seem to be having trouble finding the quest after The Reunion though, I assume it hasn't been implemented. ShadowRunner 22:03, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

The current build has everything up until the proposal in it. The rest will come later (blasted cliffhangers!) John Stumme 22:07, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

Thanks for confirming, was going crazy running all over looking for the next part :D --Xurkane 22:09, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

These Beyond additions are entertaining, and I've been having great fun being Thackeray, but it's rather frustrating having Gwen perpetually looping and the Emblem not appear. I'm just curious if there's any official stance on how to approach remedying this issue, since none of the solutions proposed around the wiki have made success. Anyway, thanks in advance for the answer and to you and the rest of the team for this continued entertainment. -Yossitaru 23:42, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

We are looking into a fix for these issues as well. John Stumme 23:47, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

Yes, great job on HotN! :D Though the most glaring issue hasn't been fixed - Kieran gets the girl. Hehe. Though it would be a bit hard having a wedding if it went the other way. Just joking around, though, great stuff! ^_^ I wonder, though, if we'll ever have a chance to get the girl (or guy, for the girl characters out there) in some future piece of GW:B content. Just a thought. --Nathe 00:02, 20 November 2010 (UTC)

What? So we unnamed heroes settle down and stop adventuring?! No way! :D --Musha 00:47, 20 November 2010 (UTC)

Friends List. — Raine Valen 0:56, 20 Nov 2010 (UTC)

Who said getting hitched meant stopping the adventures? Hehe... ^_^ --Nathe 03:52, 20 November 2010 (UTC)

The unnamed heroes don't want to settle down. They already turned down one marriage proposal. -- Konig/talk 04:08, 20 November 2010 (UTC)

Only because it was both unexpected and unwanted. And as I said before, who said getting hitched meant the adventures had to stop? --Nathe 05:11, 20 November 2010 (UTC)

Gwen&Keiran's wedding maybe Kiss emote ;)? --The Holy Dragons 08:09, 20 November 2010 (UTC)

Hi John, just a curiosity: many dialogues aren't yet translated in other languages than english (i'm referring specifically italian but other languages too). Will be a support for other languages or not? Many thanks. San Matteo 17:57, 20 November 2010 (UTC)

Thank you for the great quests. The BMP-like structure is IMO a wondeful storytelling tool, and it's great to see it being used again. Erasculio 14:11, 21 November 2010 (UTC)

Yes and no... I like playing as Keiran, but I also like being able to play through content with my friends. So far the WiK content caters well to both ways, though. :) -- Elv 15:06, 21 November 2010 (UTC)

Profession Question

Something I always wondered about is how enemies and allies in EOTN and WiK came to have profs and skills not native to Tyria, ie sin/rit/derv/para. I don't recall any sort of lore reason ever being given for that. Kieran is an R/P, but how could he have learned the skills of a paragon without ever going to Elona, where the profession comes from? Or Anton, how could he have learned the skills of an assassin, a Canthan-only profession? If you could clear up this bit of lore, John, I'd appreciate it. Some kind of lore explanation as to how the skills and abilities of foreign professions made it out of their homelands and up to Tyria. Thanks! --Nathe 20:43, 20 November 2010 (UTC)

EotN came out several years after Factions, and the "travel" option has been available for the duration. Surely, there were assassins and assassin secondaries visiting Tyria long before the events of EotN began; Anton, for instance, could have picked up assassin skills from a traveler or he could be an immigrant, himself (though, admittedly, I do not know his lore). — Raine Valen 21:30, 20 Nov 2010 (UTC)

I'm actually thinking that it's more of a case of how Erudine explains the Wind Rider's abilities: "It seems they exhibit powers and abilities not dissimilar to those a Mesmer might use." - that is, they aren't so much the "native-only-to-x-nation" professions in lore, but just so similar that game mechanics put them as the same. So Anthon isn't an assassin, he's just a dual sword/dagger wielding fighter that has developed/learned magic similar to what an assassin uses, Keiran just motivates people with shouting (what Paragons do), and so forth. -- Konig/talk 22:35, 20 November 2010 (UTC)

I always saw as while game-wise it's restricted, lore-wise it's not, as Mhenlo is shown to have studied in Shing Jea, perhaps Anton studied in Shing Jea when young and non Canthans could, and perhaps Kerian did go to Elona once, just never mentioned it to the hero or Miku? Hayda probably moved to Kryta from Vabbi... The possibilities are endless. Mari Rose 22:57, 21 November 2010 (UTC)

In the same way Gwen learned to be a mesmer 'on her own' (we see that in the BMP), you don't need a Shing Jea master to become an assassin. Players have to choose a master, but NPCs are not limited by that, they can learn a profession on their own, there's also a lot of world we never get to see, so they can also meet masters we don't know of. I seriously doubt the Zaishen or Shing Jea masters tought the White Mantle anything about ritualists. MithTalk 02:45, 22 November 2010 (UTC)

Indeed. NPCs don't follow the same rules that players do, and trying to apply them is only the road to madness. One can start to wonder why unintelligent creatures use skills that are clearly associated with following certain gods, or why bugs can be Paragons that use the same anthems that players do. At some point the answer becomes "because it's a game," and this is the price that we pay for choosing to have NPCs/enemies use player skills and professions, as opposed to creating unique skills for them. Players would also be able to change their profession if it weren't for the fact that every profession uses a different rig, and that all armors have unique versions for each rig - players would literally need to re-roll themselves, and get rid of all of their armor and start over. This is just one of those cases where mechanics and lore need to be a bit more divorced from one another. (Divorce seems to be a popular word getting bandied about the forums these days. Bwahaha.) John Stumme 23:15, 26 November 2010 (UTC)

What about the Hobgoblin of Little Minds, that demands consistency over good sense? (Hey: that's a great name for a mini-quest)  — Tennessee Ernie Ford (TEF) 23:54, 26 November 2010 (UTC)

John's response makes me wonder how the game would be if the different professions had the same animations (I assume that's what he means by "rig" at least - though it could be including looks as well I guess... which makes me picture a warrior with a necro-specific face...) -- Konig/talk 23:57, 26 November 2010 (UTC)

Heh, it came to my mind a warrior taking thet necromancer pose. Bending forward, lowering his head, and and happily yelling: "Hey, look at me, I'm a necromancer!". Its seems that in GW2 at least each category in each race shares rigs (i.e.: all scholars will move the same and use the same armor), but I don't think they'll let players change profession, even within the same category. That would probable mess up the personal story. MithTalk 04:19, 27 November 2010 (UTC)

Peacekeeper Sibyl

If the White Mantle is against the old gods (who "are dead"), why do they let Peacekeeper Sibyls, who can use Avatar of Grenth, work for them? The WM tried to invade the Temple of Ages, so they obviously aren't too keen on worshippers of the old gods. Seems like those heretic dervishes would've been killed on sight. [Logged back in] Cheapy 07:54, 24 November 2010 (UTC)

Over-analyzing details is like a disease in this community *sigh* 98.210.8.185 07:43, 24 November 2010 (UTC)

I've always wondered this, tbh. I say it's just that the White Mantle aren't in the position/don't care about who supports them. -- Konig/talk 08:42, 24 November 2010 (UTC)

Under Varesh the other five gods were deemed as 'false' (she destroys the portraits of the other 5 gods pretty soon in Gandara), yet you get to see the 5 Acolytes of the 5 gods. I think that the power to use the avatar doesn't come directly from the Gods, it's not the character turning into a god, but the character 'borrowing' the form of the god. MithTalk 11:06, 24 November 2010 (UTC)

I always wondered why Varesh didn't get an Avatar of Abaddon skill. Hell, I wondered why we didn't, as a Lightbringer skill or something. Anyway, the original Hindu meaning of the term "Avatar" is summarized as "the descent of a deity to the earth in an incarnate form or some manifest shape; the incarnation of a god." This is the meaning probably meant when referring to the Voice of Grenth, Champion of Balthazar, etc. But a second, less commonly used definition is "an embodiment or personification, as of a principle, attitude, or view of life." Thus, you could have an "avatar of sweetness" (big candy), "avatar of war" (some guy with a big sword), "avatar of holiday cheer" (some pedophile with glasses), etc. Thus, you're taking on the aspect or most direct representation of an idea, not literally becoming the subject of the skill. –Jette 13:18, 24 November 2010 (UTC)

I don't think that's it. You capture the Form skills from Kournan's before Varesh betrays the Lyssian Temple (as in she goes against the 5 Gods). Chronologically speaking, that is. So perhaps she's just using them until the time is right? This wouldn't apply to the WM, since they've already disavowed the old gods at the time the Sibyls are being used. Cheapy 23:57, 24 November 2010 (UTC)

Technically she already betrays the 5 Gods by defacing their portraits in Gandara long before Grand Court of Sebelkeh, as seen in the Consulate Docks mission which takes you to Kourna in the first place. So that line of reasoning doesn't hold. :) -- Elv 17:46, 25 November 2010 (UTC)

True, but she also calls the gods "weak". Which is different from "don't exist". Cheapy 02:10, 26 November 2010 (UTC)