User talk:Borotvaltgandalf

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I'm using Ebon Battle Flag of Dishonor!

That is going to be my next catchphrase... Koda Kumi 12:17, 21 February 2010 (UTC)

Stumme's page: April Fools derailment

Stumme's talk page is not your personal blog. Stop treating it as such. You are not a game designer, your ideas are not better than their ideas, and nobody wants to listen to unending bullshit about stupid shit on their talk page. Cut it out. -Auron 11:56, 4 April 2012 (UTC)

Stop treating the live team like socialist propaganda treated communist leaders in the stalinist era. Yes I use stronger language because frankly, I'm fed up with the weak excuse that they are only 3 of them. That shouldn't be used as an excuse when they keep "pumping out" content that nobody with the right mindset enjoys and storylines that make no sense. Even worse people use it as an excuse for anything. Even the topic is unrelated. Again I ask you: What's the problem in pointing that out? If they could build a goddamn area out of well, the already existing assets (and it takes time: Lots of time), they should be able to focus their attention to making the game playable. But pointing it out might break their fragile hearts <sobsob>? WTF? --Boro 12:20, 4 April 2012 (UTC)

Why don't you stop QQ'ing on the talk page of someone who had absolutely nothing to do with what you're complaining about - WiK came while Stumme was working on GW2. If you feel the need to be a broken record about how you hate something, do it where it belongs - your own personal blog/talk page. Also, your complaints fail to prove why the Live Team's size has nothing to do with the quality of the content they push (it really does).

Or how about making a suggestion on how to retro-improve WiK content? Because QQ'ing on a talk page repeatedly about the same damn thing over and over will not get you anywhere (it might give Stumme some laughs though). Konig/talk 16:00, 4 April 2012 (UTC)

Maybe because the quality of the content they push out is wrong on a conceptual level. And team size doesn't really affect the conceptual errors (more people obviously mean less chance of errors, but that's what feedback should complement) I'll follow your advice though and make a suggestion page for it. Just to show you that it can be done properly. Regardless of team size. --Boro 17:21, 4 April 2012 (UTC)

If fixing the problems with the game was as simple as you make it out to be, everyone would be happy and nobody would be complaining. --Lania 18:00, 04 April 2012 (UTC)

It's not simple, but obtainable through being consistent and attentive. It also requires properly picking the the target audience. The rest is playtesting and finetuning. --Boro 18:08, 4 April 2012 (UTC)

No that's absolutely impossible. No amount of play testing, massive dev team man hours, tons of money, and fine tuning will make a game perfect, and make everyone happy. --Lania 18:15, 04 April 2012 (UTC)

You know Boro, you're not the first person to spam dev pages with complaints. elix Omni 18:48, 4 April 2012 (UTC)

@Lania, a good game does not necessarily means instant happiness, but the happiness of self-improvement by playing, and a good game can be accomplished by only few people and small manpower.

@Felix I know. He is a great inspiration for me. (nice event) --Boro 21:32, 4 April 2012 (UTC)

Glint

→ moved from Feedback_talk:John_Stumme#Glint

Olara=my char; Grasping Ghoul=my friend's char; other attenders: Alesia, Dunham, Orion. This dialogue takes place after completing the bonus objectives with 3 henches...

Olara: "Glint? Are you all right?"

Glint: *coughs* *spits* "All right? You have just defeated me and ask me if I'm all right?"

Ghoul: /hesitantly/ "Umm yes. We have heard tales of heavily armored and more than simply well prepared adventurers being routinely kicked out into Droknar's Forge by you even though they took a full party..."

Olara: "...and to be honest we haven't used any of the gimmicks of 'modern heroes'." *shudders* "In fact we haven't even been to Elona or to the wild northlands. How come we floored you so easily?"

Ghoul: "Maybe she's growing old and senile..."

Glint: "NO! I have foreseen the flameseeker prophecies EIGHT HUNDRED YEARS AGO! How dare you accuse me of growing meek in a mere six years?"

Alesia: /helpfully/ "There are times of tragedy when men's hair grow old and women become weak and shriveled. Did anything happen to you Wise one?"

Glint: "I..."

Ghoul: "That doesn't make sense. We have our armor crafted in the Amnoon Oasis, which is weaker than what we'll get after going through the portal, And our rings haven't been focusing on being some sort of dragon slayer. To top it off we've brought three henchmen, two..." *points at Orion and Alesia* ".. have a history of being spectacular failures in an adventure, and a more or less tame mesmer. I didn't have elite rings equipped, I only got Gladiator's Defense just before jumping here, and Olara used Warrior's Endurance as if it still was a stance. We've fought you like the heroes of old - scratch that we fought you in worse conditions than the heroes of old and you still bite the floor."

Only you, John, have the answers for the question. --Boro 06:26, 14 April 2012 (UTC)

I don't think that dialogue really happened. But when they split the game into NM and HM, they not only created a HM mode with buffed monsters and sometimes (slightly) harder builds. They also reduced the power of existing enemies in NM. That made enemies like Glint much easier in NM than before HM was added. MithTalk 13:23, 14 April 2012 (UTC)

Obviously I made the dialogue up to have a little variety. But honestly? Why was Normal Mode reduced? The challenge was all the more fun, that in GW prophecies you learned PvP. You learned about Maguuma Seeds. Priest Annihilations, general tombs... And how come "If anyone's killed upon the bloodstone no magic in this and any other world will bring him/her back?!" WTF was the lich doing in Gate of Madness? --Boro 15:28, 14 April 2012 (UTC)

Learning PvP in PvE made no sense in the first place. It's something like learning to play football by kicking a ball into a wall: once against another player, things will change too much, and you'll have to learn all over again. You might learn 'rules' but the rules are only part of the game. GW2 is much better at that. You can do as much as you like in either PvP or PvE or both, but they don't mix, because they don't mix. The Lich is already dead, so he is not dying on the bloodstone. He's just having his material body destroyed his spirit kicked to the Torment (because anything tainted by Abaddon ends up in the Torment sooner or later) and brought back through the Door of Komalie. You later destroy him for good in Gate of Madness. But the Mists are a weird place, so it's hard to know if what you destroy is the body or a representation of his body created by his spirit with 'spirit particles' like the Demons or some weird thing like that. All that's for sure is that he and Shiro are done for good, as much as Abaddon. MithTalk 16:42, 14 April 2012 (UTC)

I mean that the game lore explicitly STATES one thing in a very important cinematic, in which the Mursaat are revealed, specifically that anyone killed on the bloodstone, No magic in "This or ANY OTHER WORLD" can bring them back. I think it implies that not even gods have the power (because resurrections come from dwayna and grenth). Then GW team decides to screw that sideways and do something that contradicts it. But it's not the point. PvE is way too easy. My friend just told me today that he did THK Hard Mode with an 5/8 party: Him as a warrior, two discord heros (MM and Hexer), one Icy Veins with rit heals, and one SoS with splinter. So that normal mode has been weakened might be true, but overally pve's became a joke. Either a good joke (easy glint), or a bad joke. Honestly we've been crippling ourselves cutting arms and legs off by the dozens to get the percieved difficulty back, but there is the point where we become so weak that it's frustrating instead of challenging. --Boro 17:16, 14 April 2012 (UTC)

When we face Shiro and Khilbron in the Gate of Madness, we are fighting their souls (at least in lore, they don't appear green/blue/purple and translucent probably due to the same reason Scorch Emberspire and Garfaz Steelfur don't - and if they're fleshy I call oversight and/or laziness). Khilbron wasn't "brought back" - being brought back means that it's the same body. As shown in Abaddon's Mouth, once the soul batteries are destroyed (note: Hell's Precipice ends in an eruption and I'm sure soul batteries can be destroyed by lava) the soul can escape - though obviously Khilbron either escaped through the Door, or was taken to the Realm of Torment post-escaping. If you know the lore, then you'd realize the reason resurrection is not possible is because the soul is trapped - free the soul, resurrection is possible. Glint didn't explain the whole situation (gee, like that's new).

Glint is easier nowadays because skills have become rebalanced and act differently, while her skills due to being unique to her have not. You also know what to expect, most likely had skills from Factions (you said not to Elona or the north, so I'm assuming you mean no PvE skills if not skills from those two games at all), and so forth - since "ye old days" even Henchmen got reworked. Normal Mode itself didn't get easier, things that use normal skills just got better, and Glint is not included among them. The only NM that got easier was THK and Battle for LA (and perhaps some WoC stuff but that was mostly HM that got easier). Everything else just comes off as easier because the players got more sources while the monsters didn't get buffed in retrospect (as such, Prophecies foes will all be loleasy when using anything other than Prophecies-available resources, as will Factions). This isn't an active decision on the dev's part but an inactive oversight of not going through old content to buff enemies (something I concur that they need to do - hell, run a contest for players to create new builds for Prophecies and Factions foes, then sort through them, take ones liked, modify others, and done.) And maybe, just maybe, it's also because you've become good at a game you've played for years - you know, when you do such, things stop being challenging no matter how much you hinder yourself. Konig/talk 18:36, 14 April 2012 (UTC)

It's literally impossible to make the game equally difficult for everyone. The excessively variety of builds that GW allows creates a massive gap between the best possible build for something and the worst possible build for something. The primary attributes can be exploited with secondary profession attributes. Those with more campaigns have more skills to choose from, while enemies are limited to the skill for a campaign until end-game content. Dedicated healing has forced an arms race between how much a party can heal and how much they can damage... Those are all mistakes that are being solved in GW2, and part of the reasons why GW2 was created; because how resource-consuming would be to fix those problems in GW1. Even if you left the build creation in hands of players, there's still the resources required to sort the entries out, make the changes, test them... As much as I'd love to see a Prophecies overhaul, with parties of 8 from Lion's Arch, more variety in parties (e.g: there's plenty of new skale models, yet Prophecies only has the original green one, there's lots of plant models, yet enemy parties in PRophecies rarely have more than 2 of those in a party), better enemy builds, etc.. It's just too much, so as long as it's possible to do something and not too hard, there's no need to change it to make it more difficult, but it might be necessary to make the opposite change it only a very few players manage to do something. It's just common sense. MithTalk 19:17, 14 April 2012 (UTC)

We didn't even go to factions. I used a non-max 6-25 R8 Fiery axe without conjure. I used Warrior's Endurance without a stance. He used prophecies skills only (and captured an 5sec gladiator's Defense). Today we killed stuff in Talus Chute, the only problems were 3 Avicara Wises maintaining Ineptitude on us. But they're faggots like that. Also when the only dedicated heal is Alesia and the best things everyone else has is resurrection signet... I honestly don't know what's making it weak. I used Dblow, Wild Blow, Power Attack and Dismember. He used Read the Wind, PBshot, Penetrating and Dshot/savage... Glint killed Dunham once and I died too for one time... I had 0 in tactics when I capped Glads. Lasted for 5 seconds, and could have just taken Bonetti's because 'why the fuck not?'. Before Talus Chute I switched my profession from W/E to W/Mo, and with Vigorous and Breeze, our duo breezed through the giant peaks and more than a couple of avicara groups. Without henchmen. Gw2 style. --Boro 20:40, 14 April 2012 (UTC)

Player skills have been power creeped across the board since Prophecies. Monster skills have not. Henchman AI has been significantly improved as well. elix Omni 20:45, 14 April 2012 (UTC)

Then why did they not improve the monster AI to compensate? There is no need to cater for farmers anymore (since those who still play gw do it on HM) which was the original cause of keeping the AI stupid on NM. Have they even played the game? Also how come that Doppelganger still doesn't use PvE skills even though you probably worked hard on implementing AI for them for the WoC finale? --Boro 21:19, 14 April 2012 (UTC)

They did improve monster AI as well - but as both I and Felix said, they did not buff old monster skills, and as I and Mith said, they did not improve the (in most cases) craptastical monster builds. And the reason for keeping AI stupid in NM was for those who don't like challenges and/or cannot handle more advanced content (this all fails, of course, due to the HM titles and in turn the HoM requiring said HM titles). @ the Doppleganger: Probably same reason why they have done minimal retroactive changes - a case of "the benefits don't outway the work." We all know that these changes would be beneficial, and to non-designers it may seems simple fixes, but it may not be the case (and considering the current situation, complaining about it now is pointless). Konig/talk 08:24, 15 April 2012 (UTC)

Considering that there are still a couple of professions to be updated to eotn balance, I see that asking them to retrofit monsters is most probably wasted work. Considering however that more than half of the existing GW creatures were made in the GWFC balance era however, I don't see the point behind pumping up the game balance to the EoTN powercreeped level, which means that half of the enemy skillbars will be in need to be revised when the balancing reaches a point where major overhauls don't become necessary. And I have a quite sceptic view on how soon it will happen. --Boro 17:26, 15 April 2012 (UTC)

Use the old lina & alesia builds on your heroes, pretend and flag them like henchies and see if you can still survive. The key to your survival was in the prot probably, with the new aof bar lina had moreenergy to spam prot spirit more saving you from glint's 300dmg auto-attack crits more readily. The other henchie's bars also only had 5 skills back in the day with orion using conjure phantasm, imagined burden, pre-buff empathy and other goodness (look for those urself). Equipments: Full survivors and the obvious runes, +60hp staves. Feel nostalgic as the heal monk runs up to touch you and when the prot only has enough energy for 3 skills per fight. For the other henchie builds look for them yourself. (you can't undo the mind burn and fireball buffs on orion tho I'm afraid and you'd have to force the 'alesia' hero to WoH randomly instead of under 50% health like she did back then, WoH was also weaker if I remember correctly.) 60.234.212.190 13:03, 17 April 2012 (UTC)

We didn't bring lina :D I however just captured Glads defense which is slightly worse than bonettis when maintainability comes to mind... Lina also allowed us to tank our dear old mursaat elementalists in Ice Caves of Sorrow and do the bonus without infusion (only the pet had it). We also did Iron Mines of moladune, but this time Infused. Then we died, but next time we didn't infuse the henchies, had no bonus, but got markis nevertheless. No. The reason we won was that alesia redbarred through glint's damage. I as a warrior without max armor had 71+15 from shield armor against the dragon's fireballs. And for the record Dunham, Alesia and I died - one time each. --Boro 13:11, 17 April 2012 (UTC)

Well it's because of the messed up balance in PvE that the revamp suggestions exsist. But if you enjoy PvE with henches so much and see it as properly balanced why don't you make a suggestion suggesting that heroes in Proph and Factions can only be used after all of the primary objective of all the misions of both campaigns have been completed. For Factions it's either side of Vizunah Square and Unwaking Waters and either the Eternal Grove or Gyala Hatchery. For NF and EotN untill of the missions have been completed (same criteria of the missions from Factions aplies to NF) no more than 4 heroes can be added since both have been designed on the difficulity of 4 heroes. Afterwards HM and Beyond can be done with 7 heroes but NM will remain the same on the original difficulity and will need much less of a rebalance than it currently would with the 7 hero system. Da Mystic Reaper 14:08, 17 April 2012 (UTC)

It's a great idea. I'll do it. Required heroes in NF are a bit of a problem... --Boro 15:55, 17 April 2012 (UTC)

I think the NF missions should be restructured to work like the EN missions in regards to heroes - none are required, but where they're part of the story they come as ally NPCs (and any heroes of them appear with generic names). Konig/talk 21:41, 17 April 2012 (UTC)

(Reset indent) True. They and Kormir should auto resurrect and be active. --Boro 07:25, 20 April 2012 (UTC)

Kormir really just needs to stop body blocking rbh. Though being active (but with no attacks to compliment the blind aspect - she's no ritualist, after all) wouldn't hurt. But doing the auto-resurrect on Prophecies and Factions NPCs would get tricky, since they were designed around the idea of keeping them alive (and it would reduce the difficulty greatly). Konig/talk 09:48, 21 April 2012 (UTC)

We get it

You're unhappy with the game. Writing WoTs on the devs pages doesn't help. Make suggestions and leave it be. Oh, and why haven't you been banned for this repeated behavior? Sardaukar 21:34, 14 April 2012 (UTC)

What about the ele update now?

→ moved from Feedback_talk:Robert_Gee#What_about_the_ele_update_now.3F

I wonder how you plan to resolve the leadership+spammabpe adrenaline shouts+any adrenaline boost triangle which gives the 'gons unlimited resources. And their nasty habits of increasing their power exponentially with the more of them in party, the possible DPS problems of spearmastery and the possible resurgence of pack hunter rangers on the paragon side.

As for the Elementalists: Good flexible elites, possible inter-elemental synergies that aren't glyph of immolation+steam could be worked on, but at this point they are more or less fine (Water-air is quite good with blind+snares), Some active fire magic spells like phoenix could use some changing without making them overpowered, Earth could use a mind elite, sliver armor is... troublesome and only used in farming, so it should be fixed.

But it is doubtful that your balance updates will have any substantial positive effects in pve unless SpeedClears are addressed and removed from the game. It defeats the point of creating content when you allow - or even worse, actively encourage - players to skip most of it for the rewards, and fuels an unhealthy elitist mentality in the guild wars community. (my opinion is that the dhuum updates Dhuum are THE prime example of doing it wrong) For an example: The skeletons of dhuum effectively banned non-speedclear teams from doing UW, and Dhuum is immune to most conventional melee hate, so only PVE only grind-based skills are of any meaningful effect against him. As a quickie I believe that if you remove complete spell immunity from the game, speedclears will vanish. Anyway I went a bit off-tangent here. Lastly: are suggestions still considered at this point (for the ele/para update) or we shouldn't bother making them as it will be years before the you get to work on them again? --Boro |

It is claimed that they do look at it but if it's used is another thing. I gues you are aiming at your paragon focus group wich links several paragon suggestions and your elemental synergy suggestion about the cross-element synergy mechanic. Well the only way to really know if our suggestions are looked at and tested is if we see them return in the updates. Da Mystic Reaper 10:59, 26 April 2012 (UTC)

I'm not aiming anywhere. The cross-elemental synergies (water hex and lightning spell, steam+glyph, iron mist and lightning???) were a topic of discussion a while ago. Some of the problems with the paragons (leadership, exponential power with finales) were discussed on the focus group, and I'm just telling him the problems that were identified there. And of course a reminder not to go overboard like he did with the Mesmer and Dervish update (one is still wreaking havoc in pve, the other is more/less hammered out in pvp at least). Hmm... Tiger Stance could be like a strength-duplicate of Heart of Holy Flame. I need to stop randomly getting ideas. --Boro 14:34, 26 April 2012 (UTC)

I assume you mean Heart of Fury.Da Mystic Reaper 14:39, 26 April 2012 (UTC)

Yep dat. --Boro 15:25, 26 April 2012 (UTC)

Dev talk pages

You're not to post on any dev's talk page anymore, since you've shown you can't do it properly. Posting on a dev's talk page will result in a block should a sysop feel it's necessary. If you have suggestions to make, post them in the feedback area where they belong. If you need to contact Anet, use their official route and go through Support (or fb, twitter, whatever; but not the wiki.) pling 19:26, 27 April 2012 (UTC)

Well, what can I say to this request? I'll comply of course - not that I have a choice on the matter.

It makes me wonder what was the improper part about that? That I brought up a lot of topics at once on the "ele update" section? Or that I called someone's past two years worth of work a waste of time and resources? That I called it a rushed, bad job? That it was in a confronting tone? Or it was that the topics I brought up ended up in large discussions filled with walls of texts? I guess it was the last. What positive effects you might expect from this, I know not. Other than the archiving progress, which I would understand if I knew that it was' the case.

Before I leave with the impression that I'm the hurt bird screeching and demanding, well I suppose it's only fair that I tell my why?s first. wall of text ahead.

I've been a longtime player, and as such I got the grips of the game in the GWWC-GWFC era. I loved the game. It was something special, something so good that words couldn't describe. I saw then how it went downhill from there because the developers pushed the numbers higher and higher: DoA, Hard Mode, Eye of the North and Beyond. Each pushed the game further downwards in both gameplay and lore quality. I watched day by day how they defiled what was originally the main point of Guild Wars: No grind, relatively consistent lore with lose ends here and there, not too much but enough to give it an aura of mystery. I then watched how Izzy introduced godmode equivalent into the game, and the ever-vigilant Live team could only... wait for it... nerf it for all other professions, BUT the assassin. Not like what every competent balancer would do and nerf the fuck out of it. (Of course Smiter's Booning is not a good practice, but thats what you get from Izzy) I talked about it a lot for many years, explained it, despite the long break I had until this april. You might call that whining, but what would you do if they fucked up a game you loved so much? If the developers showed that sort of careless attitude that I see from everything the Live Team pushed forward. And it's not just me: If you ever logged in you could see that the only reason the few people who play are still playing is to fill their hall of monuments.

Yes, you heard it right. Arenanet encouraged grinding with rewards in gw2. "Stuff that's cool to have", which very quickly degrades to elitism. We've been there, done that. In a game that was originally a game of skill - not the game of grind. Where people played for the heck of it - the good gameplay. What do they have to say about PvE-only skills then? Hard Mode? Why didn't they just improve the NM AI? Because of Farmers? How come that they are so important now? In a game of skill...

You might say that "Seven years is long and people got bored and quit." That's true to some extent, but does not happen to good games. Starcraft, Diablo, Even WoW (People who play WoW play it because the PvP is supposedly very good, although by now only a few consider grinding to it worth it), Dungeon Siege still has a hardcore group of modders who are available all-day long. There was even an MMO mod for it. Not that it's balance couldn't use some work and new mechanics, but the state of imbalance didn't really replace the original mechanics: Fighters can('t) take the damage, mages die from a mean look, Archers are well-rounded. Not like in gw where assassins get godmode.

And that I'm not forced to play that, well, find me eight players who can win UW in a reasonable timeframe(<=2hours) without it (and other grinded pve skills!) I dare you.

As for current balances... Ritualists get spirit walls that can two-shot (two attack times) players, or mobs. Mesmers got Elementalist's AoE Damage and mass-everything (I win at everything forever). People cried about dervish - for a reason. It was unplayably bad. And lo - Dervish Update. There, on John's page I told him I love the new dervish skills. Well, I truly did until I found out that the dervs completely replaced warriors because of their easy condition spread: Hammer Warriors? Why when you can have blindspam with weakness AND respectable pressure damage to boot? And what did eles get? Number updates. Then the next content gets even bigger difficulty (by the virtue of numbers of course) and the cycle continues, until the game systems break.

I see warning signs everywhere. When two players with Orion, Dunham and Alesia (5/8)ONLY can beat Glint with Amnoon Oasis armor and 3Interrupts+wild blow. When a level 18 warrior plus a level 20 ranger with a pet and an axe can consistently do Sanctum Cay without henches(2/6). When all outposts are practically deserted, when a level 11 ele who joins my party in Borlis Pass brings Searing Flames and a fire imp summon, like it wasn't easy enough (we did it without monks - nuff said). When one person has to go AFK in Thunderhead Keep and a warrior who maintains frenzy (mostly) can still win with 7 henches. When Dunes of Despair

That's why I try...tried to beat some sense into John, that's what I tried to warn Robert about. That's because I tried, despite everything I saw, to assume good faith. As it is obvious, I failed in Izzy's case, and can't honestly claim success in any other live team designer's case.

It's because whenever I listen to the GW main theme on Youtube (the old prophecies with campfire), and even factions, I remember how good the game used to be. I remember how people played together to play together, how good the balance was (that I got away with WoH wammo-ing in Ice Caves of Sorrow), how many many tactics were viable back then (bringing PvP builds to PvE wasn't a problem back then), and how little it needed to reach an almost perfect level of balance. And because of this, whenever I see the developers beaming with happiness when they release a new piece of content, update, whatever, and I see that they - for the lack of better words - fucked up majorly, I cradle my head and ask "WTF were they thinking?". And then go and ask the devs. And get moved. But... you know the story from then on. --Boro 22:22, 27 April 2012 (UTC)

Nobody considers the PvP in WoW to be any good at all. It hasn't ever been good. Honor grind for gear, ridiculous class imbalances, deadzone on hunters, mana burn on priests, holy pallies with plate armor/shields/cooldowns that make themselves invincible, boring battlegrounds, poorly designed arenas... the PvP was just tacked onto a PvE game as an afterthought, and it shows.

Anyway, I agree with Pling in this case. You're just too disruptive for little to no effect. It's not like Stumme has any control over most of the shit you whine about - you're just whining to hear yourself speak, and that helps nobody. Make a livejournal if you really need to vent, or keep it in your own userspace, but it really does not belong on dev talk pages. -Auron 00:00, 28 April 2012 (UTC)

"It's not like Stumme has any control over most of the shit you whine about" Then who has? I've been taking this problem straight to them since they have shown that they know nothing about most of these issues. Problems with the whole way the game is being steered towards (@Robert). That maybe THEY are whining when they say that "we are only two people" when confronted with balance and other issues - they helped procreate. It's not like they can't boon Shadow Form. It takes less time than to write this: duration->5 ecost->25 Recharge->90.

Maybe if they didn't waste their time with introducing boring and horrible content, or further buffing the tools players have to deal with PvE, they would... maybe have time to get actual work done. If you read my above post properly, you might see that too. --Boro 07:49, 28 April 2012 (UTC)

Thing is, that's just an opinion, not everyone feels this way, and a lot of what the devs have been doing recently is more productive (and exciting) than simply nerfing everything out. It's already a known fact that the entire original GW team decided to fix GW1 through GW2. There's a reason for that: it's too late to do it in GW1 now. A lot of the solutions would require an entire revamp in the systems. And whoever is left playing GW1, wants to finish their HOM and have some last fun with new content and once-underused skills. Nerfing broken stuff, except for PvP, is hardly relevant now, and would only leave a bad taste to whoever is still playing. Diogo da Silva 01:54, 29 April 2012 (UTC)

Thing is, that there are facts: Well, for first you are right in one thing: Those who currently play GW actively, play it for HoM. As you said it, they want to finish their HoM - which in english is: finish the game because it's not enjoyable. Elite areas are not enjoyable. 80+% of GW:beyond content is beyond the human vocabulary's expressiveness for crap. However there are many more who would come back if the gameplay itself would be enjoyable. As for productive work, name me one thing you think they did right: I'll tell you what they have messed up in it, and what they could have done instead. --Boro 17:33, 29 April 2012 (UTC)

Isn't that all just a personal opinion? There are plenty of ehh players who enjoy high end SC as such and plenty of people who like GWB and also plenty of people who don't like both as well, but likes and dislikes are nothing more than personal opinions. That does not take away the fact that the game does indeed need some serious improvements. Da Mystic Reaper 17:44, 29 April 2012 (UTC)

I am aware of what the game could have become if there were still 50 devs working on it instead of 5. But there's a reason why the original staff team left GW1: to fix this game, you'll have to revamp many of its mechanic systems. A whole game was built just for this (GW2). And when an old online game survives mostly because of the sequel (through hom), and when the sequel will bring all the improvements people have been begging for this game, there's no point in 5 people attemting the impossible task of fixing what will already be fixed with GW2. It's a much better strategy to just keep whoever remains playing GW1 confortable with their playing (be it doing SCs or whatever), and spice things up with some profession revamps and some new quests and rewards. GW1 is an old game, the HOM is an excellent incentive to still play this game, and I've been enjoying the GW:B content, especially considering I'm not even paying for it. No point in bringing GW1 back to an "idealized state": it will just scare some of its current community, and it won't bring anyone back neither when GW2 is coming out this year. All your suggestions, no matter how good they are or how good they could be to the game, are pointless and would have been a waste, because the current GW1's state requires (and has been getting) a different direction, adapted to the situation the game is in. Diogo da Silva 15:57, 30 April 2012 (UTC)

But there is one big flaw in what you say; creating GW2 does not fix the problems in GW1. As long as it is an online game that can be updated GW1 can be fixed...to a certain level. Creating GW2, a completely new game, does not help the playability and balance issues that GW1 has. GW2 does not take away the need that the problems GW1 has need to be fixed as you claim. Da Mystic Reaper 16:47, 30 April 2012 (UTC)

Fixing GW requires less than you think. It requires the Live Team to admit that what they have been doing for 4 years has been a waste of time, ended in one of the biggest insults to the word "balance", and start over from the GWFC era - slowly reintroducing Nightfall and EoTN skills specifically reworked to make sense in THAT balance era and in THAT power level. It's conservative yes, but that's the level of offense/defense balance, and the relatively low power of dumb damage skills, that truly allows skilled play to shine. Area reworks MIGHT be needed, but that's a work for another day.

They can make it optional and call it GWPRO mode. I'm hoping that it won't be left for the modders to do this once the GWserver code will be released. --Boro 20:20, 1 May 2012 (UTC)

I would not go that far in terms of balance since it is highly unlikely that the skills would all have their powers reduced like you desire. Areas can be reworked and as you suggested already heroes can be reduces as well forcing people to use henches or other players or an initial reduced number of heroes untill the campaign has been completed. Where it goes with heroes the same can be done with the skills. Per campaign no other skills than the core skills and the campaign specific skills can be used untill the campaign they come from has been cleared. A fairly simple chance like that should restore most of the initial balance of the campaigns and not mess with the balance level of GWB. Also if you want a GWPRO mode for the pros check out the Zaishen Mode suggestions, wich ramp up the difficulity to quite a ridiculous level. Da Mystic Reaper 11:16, 2 May 2012 (UTC)

Zaishen mode is crap. Raising monster levels to 42 and dumping their numbers sky high is NOT pro. It's begging to be played only with farming builds. Look at hard mode titan quests! Is it fun to play with 80dmg+ empathy(with dmg reduction) on physicals, panic on everyone else and everything capable of spiking you with autoattacks, while Eles deal insane damages and combined with necros prevent your physicals from accomplishing anything, plus strong fastcast divinefavor healing monks. Putting broken shit together is not pro. It's broken, it's bullshit, and finally, It's not GW. --Boro 11:40, 2 May 2012 (UTC)

So the easy balanced mode you suggest is pro for the pros? Hell no. Don't think a balanced game makes a challenging game for the pros because it doesn't. Skill be it either weak or strong in a balanced conservative game hardly offers a challenge for the pros. The Zaishen Mode suggestions are designed to give the pros a real challenge like the GWB quests such as the titan quests do. They are not designed to be balanced nor to be broken but to offer a challenge for the pros. The pros at this point of the game and at their level of skill don't gave a damn about balance but want a challange and a balanced quest or a balanced mode cannot give them that. You may enjoy the old GW but the vast majority of the pros desire a challange worthy of their level in the new GW. The hero limitation suggestion and skill limitation mentioned are for the conservatives who enjoy a balanced like you, the Zaishen Mode suggestions wich have as requirement the completions of the balanced game are for the pros who enjoy the challenge that all the broken shit offers them since it is a game worthy of their skills. So keep it in mind please: a conservative balanced game is as fun as a progressive broken game, it all depends on the taste of the players. Da Mystic Reaper 12:07, 2 May 2012 (UTC)

Whew. What is this I don't even? DMR you aren't even clear with the terminology used. Balanced game means that instead of having to buildwars, you can run minor modifications, and instead have to adapt your tactics, strategy, and execution to defeat an opponent. Like how EvIL could win against hexway WM without running hexes. Areas are usually designed towards a difficulty level: Low level starter areas towards the easy difficulty, and higher level enemies towards a harder difficulty. Remember that lvl 28 foes have a ~50% damage boost in addition to their overtly raised attributes. That much damage means that parties have to shore up their defense deficencies: skilled guardians, enfeebles, blurs and blinding flashes become meaningless when the main source of damage is a trio of elementalists where each has 200+ AoE damage and usually spike, combined with a couple of other mobs joining in - hammer warriors with 50+dmg per strike, Mesmers with panic and empathy and necros who shut down everything else and clean players from enchantments

You want to buff it up to even more ridiculous and retarded levels, but failing to address that the only reason people can beat most of this already broken and already retarded content called hard mode is ~permament invincibility existing. And guess what! Nobody - not even speedclearers want to play this broken shit(HM already). They would rather run past, engage when unavoidable, and go for the end reward chests. Why do you presume they'd play anything else? They want to finish this game and never look back. Sorry to burst your bubble, but NOBODY with an IQ more than a chair wants to try to outplay foes with higher inheren speedboosts, damageboosts, healthboosts, broken skillbars, and more broken monster skills than hardmode, which is what the shitty zaishen mode is about..

Contrary to popular belief balanced gameplay isn't necessarily easy. On the contrary: If you don't have broken shit players can exploit, and broken modes where players are encouraged to exploit said broken shit, players who are passionate do the sensible thing: They try to get better at their game. They learn to quarterlock, they try to outplay the AI and each other, they spread conditions better, they skirmish with cripshots better, they run charge swords in tournaments and get away with it - they chose the tactic and build not based on whether it's broken and clearly the most effective, but rather on what they can play the best. Be it 2 warrior 2 sin frontline, boonprots with shadow arts, or other things. In a broken game however, no such meaningful choice exists. --Boro 17:51, 2 May 2012 (UTC)

Well it seems best not to continue this discussion since our opinions about it differ too much but one thing does disturb me. " beat most of this already broken and already retarded content called hard mode is ~permament invincibility existing. And guess what! Nobody - not even speedclearers want to play this broken shit(HM already). They would rather run past, engage when unavoidable, and go for the end reward chests. Why do you presume they'd play anything else? They want to finish this game and never look back."

Did you seriously just compare the SC farmers on the same level as the players??? You do know that SC is to clear a dungeon as fast as possible with minimal ammount of play to get to the reward as fast as possible and as often as possible with the minimal ammount of investment possible. To the real players who play the game those guys are not players, you of all Boro who want to see a balanced game to play of all should not be putting those guys and the same level as us players.

And about Zaishen Mode, yeah we the pros want to buff monsters up to a ridiculous level at max level possible and maxed attribute and with skill bars that would make them nearly impossible up to the point that not even Shadow Form can save you, all that so we pros can finally have a challenge. It isn't about balance it's about the challenge those ridiculously out-of-balance and impossible buffed up monsters give us. You don't have to agree with it nor do you have to like it or understand our view and opinions about it, you may dislike and hate it as much as you want but please do respect it. Da Mystic Reaper 17:38, 3 May 2012 (UTC)