Feedback talk:User/Guild Wars 3 perhaps/Trait and Attribute Templates

I believe so. Saving attribute "builds" would be convenient, especially with all of the different types of attributes that will be in GW2. However, I don't feel as much of a need for rapidly reassigning attribute points in battle, as they will most likely have a cool-down (or you won't be able to switch in combat, I'm not sure of the exact mechanics on that one). One idea would be to tie the attribute sets in with your weapon sets, so that when you switch weps in combat, your attribute assignments will shift to a set designed for that weapon build (the attributes would be the same by default, until you set up attribute builds for each weapon set) so you can maximize your effectiveness in battle. For example: you have a Guardian that primarily wields a staff, and so your attribute points and traits are geared towards some of those skills. Your secondary weapon set is a mace and shield, which you switch to once the enemy melee get close enough to attack you. With the attribute assignments tied to your weapon sets, your attributes and traits reassign so that your mace is just as effective as your staff. Without this, switching weapons in combat would be kind of pointless, people would mostly just put all of their points into one weapon and use that weapon all the time. Kormon Balser 22:11, 15 November 2011 (UTC)

Eaven that i like the suggestion i think fast switching of trait, atribute, skill builds is realy not a good idea. As i understand it it will allow fast switching of AOE to single target constant/nuke "builds" and this will bring great disbalance in both PvP and PvE. I wont say why in PvP since its more than obvious, as for PvE it might cause some professions to be better than others(in total of the 6 types of combat) and this will simply remove the weaker ones off the table of searched professions(which is exactly what Anet is trying to avoid). IE it will require useless balancing. Scourge_213 17:08, 17 November 2011 (UTC)

hes saying hotkeys to change builds out of combat, so you cant switch that easily in pvp, and in pve switching builds for trash and bosses happens all the time in other games too 24.130.140.36 17:39, 17 November 2011 (UTC)

As it stands now in the current state of the game, attributes and traits can only be changed outside of combat. I'm not suggesting this change or that players be allowed to switch attribute and trait builds within combat. The only thing I'm suggesting is to allow players to assign attribute and trait builds to a hot key. But this hot key will only permit you to switch your attribute and trait builds when you are not in combat; just as the game is currently designed. Apologies if I didn't make that clear in the original post. Guild Wars 3 perhaps 18:01, 17 November 2011 (UTC)

I'm exactly speaking of the hotkey thingy OUT of combat. I dont know what experience you guys have with MMOs to say that, but still the 10 seconds offcombat gap between Bosses and trash(which happens alot in MMOs and expecialy will happen in GW2, becouse of the dozents of mechanics of which GW2 is based) is more of enough to bring fast switching to disbalancing the game. And in PvP before you enter the melee if you can swich instantly between survival and aoe destruction can change the scales in disadvantage of the other team that would otherwise surely win - more disbalancing. Still i dont know what is in your mind, but if its not instant the whole "hotkey" thing is more than useless suggestion.Scourge_213 18:20, 17 November 2011 (UTC)

I don't really see it being unbalanced. If I can switch attribute/trait builds instantly with a hotkey, so can every other player in the game. It doesn't give me an advantage over anybody or otherwise unbalance the game. Using your examples from above:

1. PvE: If I'm facing a mix of mobs and a boss and have an attribute/trait build specific to each of those enemy types, we can look at this from both perspectives. In scenario 1, I switch my build with a hotkey in the 10 seconds between those two battles. In scenario 2 - in the abscence of a hotkey option - I take out the mob, back away from the boss to a safe haven, open my attribute and trait panels, tediously redistribute my points one-by-one, and then go back and finish off the boss with my manually loaded attribute and trait build. In both scenarios, the result is the same; the mob and the boss are dead. But in scenario 2 I'm forced to have to resort to breaking my immersion, slowing my game experience, and opening yet another UI panel to accomplish this task. Why bother if the outcome will be identical?
2. PvP: Since everyone can switch attribute and trait builds with a hotkey under my proposed system, there's no advantage conferred. If I switch to an attribute/trait build that somehow influences my skills in such a way to switch them from AoE damage to Spike/Nuke damage, the other players are equally able to switch attribute/trait builds that will counter those damage types.

Of course, I think there's some confusion in translation going on here. I'm not suggesting allowing skill builds to be hotkeyed. I'm suggesting attribute and trait builds be hotkeyed. The attributes and traits may influence the skills, but they are not the skills themselves. Therefore, players still can't rapidly switch to a whole new set of skills even if my suggestion is implemented.

The hotkeyed builds I'm recommending are not the same as rapidly switching between AoE and Spike/Nuke damage skills. My suggestion has nothing to do with skills. Its the attributes and traits that influence your currently loaded skills, your vitality, your power, your precision, your toughness, etc. But influencing a current skill is not the same as loading a whole new skill.

If the rapid switch between attribute and trait builds could cause an unbalanced advantage as described in your feedback, then there's an easy counter to that. Just give it a cooldown. Similar to how players will be restricted to how often they can switch weapon sets in combat with a cooldown between switches, simply add a cooldown for hotkey switching between attribute and trait builds. But my feeling is that it won't be an issue because there's been a misunderstanding of my original post. I never suggested allowing players to rapidly switch skills; only attributes and traits. Which I doubt will have as profound of an effect on game balance as switching between AoE and Spike/Nuke skills would.

The alternative of being forced to manually redistribute attribute and trait points as it exists now in the game is just another immersion-breaking exercise in tedium that runs counter to the spirit of what ArenaNet has declared in their MMO Manifesto; playing the game rather than watching spreadsheets about the game. The way it's set up currently, everytime I want to change my attributes and traits, I have to pause, open those panels, and manually redistribute those points. In an instanced dungeon, I'm now slowing my party members down as they wait for a minute or two while I do this. It breaks immersion and causes delays if between battles party members are calling for a time out whenever they need to redistribute points.

In the persistent PvE world, I team up with some other players, we find we make a good group, we choose to start following each other around doing Dynamic Events. Everything is going great. Then there's a situation that may call for an attribute and point redistribution. How many other players in a random pick-up-group of that nature are going to stick around for a minute or two while another player manually redistributes points? Not many. So now, instead of furthering cooperation, social interaction, and playing the game together, the interruption of having to open an attribute and traits panel kills that dynamic as the other players type, "Well, cya. We're heading off to XYZ to do Dynamic Event ABC. See ya around sometime."

Both of those negative scenarios could be avoided with one simple, little, hotkey click. New attribute and trait build instantly loaded, I'm good to go, and we're off playing the game rather than slogging through yet another time-wasting, energy-sapping, immersion-breaking UI panel.

No disrespect intended for the designers responsible for creating UI panels. They're an integral part of the game and often not given the credit they deserve. UI design is a tough and often thankless job; you have my respect. But after I've set up what I need to set up inside the panel, the philosophy of "less is more" applies once I'm actually playing the game. The less I have to see the panels after having created my attribute and traits builds and assigned them to a hotkey, the better. Guild Wars 3 perhaps 22:58, 17 November 2011 (UTC)

As far as I recall, your allotment in trait line is fixed (until respec for a small fee in an outpost) : which means the point distribution in those lines, and per extension the attribute bonuses and minor traits are fixed as well. Though you can change your major traits out of combat naturally. In a nutshell, expect to be versatile within your build, but not to be able to overly change your character attributes (except for a complete change of armor and accessories).

As an example, for an elementalist, you can't change from Grandmaster (30 points) in Fire Magic to Grandmaster in Water Magic. But what you may want to do is change to a more cooperative style on a whim (improvement to conjured weapons and fire combo fields) or match your major traits to your current choice of utility skills (signets over cantrips for instance) or even skills provided by your new weapon of choice (and its associated skills).

It allows plenty combinations, and the possibility to save templates is a very welcomed one for sure. But if the template UI is at least half as convenient as the one in GW1, you don't even need shortcut keys. Same as changing weapon sets really.

Unless the template also include weapons for the choice of skills and gear (armor, accessories) for the attribute distribution. But that would be totally impractical in a gameplay (except in Conquest) where you gain a new improved piece of equipment several times an hour : you would pass more time trying to keep up-to-date your templates than actually getting a use for them. ^^

In short, maybe templates should include each class of the equipped weapon sets (up to three, including aquatic), slot skills (both underwater and terrestrial sets) and finally major traits. --  Leonim _{[talk·contribs]} 01:04, 13 April 2012 (UTC)

I had also written this suggestion before the recent reworking of the traits and attributes system in which they are pretty much set in stone now (short of paying the NPC who allows you to refund your trait points and re-trait all over again). So it may not apply so much now as when I had first written it. But we'll have to wait and see how things shake out after the beta testing and if the traits-written-in-stone system will remain or if ArenaNet changes it to a more flexible system in response to beta testers' feedback. Guild Wars 3 perhaps 18:21, 13 April 2012 (UTC)