Feedback talk:User/Shard/Bow Interrupts

imo dshot is far too "staple" to be changed at all, its kinda of like orison and flare... however for all the other interrupts with 5 second recharge, have you considered raising their recharge to 10 seconds, and make the conditional "if it interrupts a skill/spell this skill recharges twice as fast" Talamare 02:03, 10 September 2009 (UTC)

Dshot is not a staple, in fact, it's one of three skills (the others being Power Lock and Magebane Shot) that have a disable effect.

I have considered that, but then good players won't be so pro with 10-second cooldown interrupts. I think it would be better to have the recharges 5 and 15 rather than 10 and 20. ~Shard 02:09, 10 September 2009 (UTC)

Punishing Shot is still terrible with this suggestion.  :< It's probably one of the worst skills in the game -- partly because there's a non-elite skill that does the exact same thing, and partly because it takes 6 weeks in the wilderness to cap, and even then you might not get the right boss to spawn. —Jette 02:38, 10 September 2009 (UTC)

huh, maybe you confused what i said - i meant the natural recharge is 10 seconds, if it doesnt interrupt it recharges normally... if it does interrupt it recharges twice as fast... either way its about same-ish result i guess... Talamare 02:55, 10 September 2009 (UTC)

Except, this way if you are blinded or the attack is blocked you aren't stuck with a longer recharge. This is to punish people who spam interrupts regardless if their target was using a skill or not. From the description it seems as long as they were using a skill which doesn't get interrupted, due to block, blind or miss, the bow attack won't suffer from a longer recharge.--Underwood 03:01, 10 September 2009 (UTC)

ah i see the difference, makes sense... tho i have before in the past seen my monk with near no hp left when a melee was attacking him, and just spammed my interrupts to cancel his auto swings to buy my monk just a second to finish casting woh... a change like this would punish doing that as well..... but people spamming interrupts is worse and i /agree with the suggestion Talamare 03:09, 10 September 2009 (UTC)

Sometimes, the downside is worth what you get. If you need a tad more damage on a spike for example, many people would pay the extra 10 seconds to score a kill. ~Shard 04:25, 10 September 2009 (UTC)

You suggest that spamming interrupts on recharge can be a good strategy. This is obviously untrue since the aftercast and the lack of an interrupt for a skill that DOES need to be interrupted is already enough of a punishment. You also don't take into consideration that good players make mistakes as well. Don't you think 10 seconds additional recharge is a bit too much? No need to kill Rangers. Dark Morphon 14:15, 10 September 2009 (UTC)

It's not enough of a punishment if characters are still viable just spamming those interrupts. Were the aftercast and energy cost prohibitive, mindless spam wouldn't happen as often as it does. Someone could have suggested increasing the energy cost to 25, and then spamming those skills wouldn't be viable anymore, but skilled use would also become not viable. Increasing the recharge for a failed interrupt is a good way to fix this.

I like the idea, but I wonder if there are other ways to achieve the same effect other than increased recharge. Someone suggested a "If that foe was not using a skill, you die" clause, and I was left wondering if similar things (you take some damage for each failed interrupts? Your other skills are disabled? You lose extra energy? You suffer Blindness?) could be done just to have some variety. That kind of thing could also be used to balance Punishing Shot (give it a less severe punishment than Savage Shot). Erasculio 14:34, 10 September 2009 (UTC)

I'd agree with these changes if server stability was better, and to an extent if fast cast procs didn't exist. I don't see why they couldn't just read 'this skill deals no damage' if they fail to interrupt. Racthoh 18:28, 10 September 2009 (UTC)

"ranger builds utilizing more than two interrupts are able to spam them" That's where you blew your argument. Insane Maestro 22:48, 10 September 2009 (UTC)

If by decent character you mean one that can't interrupt any key skills reliably which is like one of the most important jobs of any Ranger then I might agree. You say spamming interrupts is common. I ask you, where? I've observed many high level battles and I haven't seen any spamming Rangers simply because it's a horrible idea. Skilled use will not become viable when you increase the energy cost? Do you realise that the same thing happens when you add something like this to the skills? Do you also realise that they're not only used as an interrupt but also to support the many other roles Rangers have such as poison spread and that these things will all vanish if you add such a clause? Did you take any of this into consideration? I highly doubt it and I also wonder, have you ever played a Ranger properly? Or were you just annoyed by some noob Rangers in RA that spammed interrupts on you? Now, the only reason why you would want to add a clause like this is if you'd want to greatly decrease the effectiveness of Ranger interrupts which I see no reason for at all. Strong interrupts is one of the things that define Rangers, alongside with easy access to poison, very good mobility and the ability to survive better than most characters. Rangers have always been like that, so why would you suddenly want to change it? The only reason I can think up is because you hate Rangers for some random reason. Dark Morphon 07:23, 11 September 2009 (UTC)

My, so much rage D : Most of your arguments defeat themselves, though:

"Skilled use will not become viable when you increase the energy cost? Do you realise that the same thing happens when you add something like this to the skills?" is proven wrong by "I've observed many high level battles and I haven't seen any spamming Rangers" - skilled players don't spam those interrupts, because they don't have to. Which means, while a high energy cost would punish those players (as they would have to pay the increased cost), an increased recharge after failed interrupts would allow them to continue interrupting skills as often and as well as they do today. This way, ranger players would still be known for strong interrupts; only it would be limited to the good ranger players.

"Do you also realise that they're not only used as an interrupt but also to support the many other roles Rangers have", has been replied by Shard above: "If you need a tad more damage on a spike for example, many people would pay the extra 10 seconds to score a kill".

"I also wonder, have you ever played a Ranger properly?" - Do you play a ranger properly? Because for skilled players, who can actually interrupt, this change would barely make any difference. If you miss your interrupts often enough for a longer recharge on failed interrupts to be an issue, more practice would solve your problem. Erasculio 13:16, 11 September 2009 (UTC)

If you admit that skilled players don't spam the interrupts on recharge, then do you agree that the whole spamming issue is one that only applies to low areas like Random Arenas, which is a lot less important than GvG anyway? This update nerfs the versatility of Rangers in the situations where you use the interrupt as a fast activation skill because you have to pay 10 seconds. That is obvious and Shard semi-countered this by saying you would want to sacrifice those 10 seconds in some situations. This is however not the case when you use Savage Shot as a quick poison spread when there are no key skills around to interrupt and Distracting Shot is recharged. Furthermore, when using it to take down a nearly dead opponent, those 10 seconds of additional downtime is still a great decrease of possibilities and thus a nerf to overall use. As I said before, there is no real reason to nerf these skills, so why do it anyway? Don't fix what is fine. Dark Morphon 15:44, 11 September 2009 (UTC)

"If you admit that skilled players don't spam the interrupts on recharge, then do you agree that the whole spamming issue is one that only applies to low areas like Random Arenas": quite the opposite. It's a problem because it allows non skilled players to win in important modes like GvG and HA, which is the reason behind this change. Having to wait ten more seconds in your example, when there's already another interrupt skill available to be used as necessary, is a very small loss in order to remove a problem from the game. Erasculio 15:52, 11 September 2009 (UTC)

I am afraid that these recharge issues might even be an issue with pretty decent Rangers as well. For GOOD rangers (of which probably less than 5 are still around), I would like to know their successful interrupt rate. I would think even good rangers miss dshots quite a bit on RC or WoH. The way the skills are worded currently suggest that if the Ranger interrupt misses, but would have interrupted a skill, then the recharge is not affected. I think that is better than being punished for missing the interrupt at all, because then they are not punished even more for blocking, etc. However, 10 seconds seems a little harsh for me. I would also hardly consider spreading poison with Savage Shot an overpowered strat that these changes are supposed to fight. -- Staples - talk 17:57, 11 September 2009 (UTC)

So your whole argument is based on bad people winning from even worse people using a terrible strategy? Of course horrible players sometimes win but that's because they play against people that are even worse. That's like saying, let's add this downside to Bull's Strike because horrible players mash it on recharge and sometimes (even usually because most backliners kite) hit with it. It's ridiculous. Dark Morphon 09:27, 13 September 2009 (UTC)

I don't see how the importance of each arena has anything to do with the game being unbalanced. Please connect the two if possible, or pick another argument. ~Shard 20:26, 12 September 2009 (UTC)

That's not my point. My point is that you are nerfing Rangers because of a worthless strategy that isn't a problem anywhere unless your skill level is sub-zero. EDIT: Oh and yes, most RA players aren't even that bad. Dark Morphon 09:27, 13 September 2009 (UTC)

I think it's wrong to really leave punishing shot as it is. Basically it's savage shot except that the +damage is unconditional, making it even less skilled and more likely to be used in spikes and less in actually interruption (Even the AI uses punishing shot as a generic bow attack). Some other concept of "punishing" an enemy ought to be considered. Possibilities include:

Inflicting conditions (cracked armour? Elite Conc Shot?)

Energy loss (stepping on mesmers a bit, but still viable)

AoE Damage (Only worth it if the damage is big)

Knockdown (Not something Rangers do, a bit psychic distraction-y)

(Skill disability is obviously taken)

Then we might not see it in those accursed Rspike teams but still see Punishing shot. --Ckal Ktak 16:12, 15 September 2009 (UTC)

I'm curious to know if the author has ever actually tried spamming ranger interrupts. I've tried it and can't say it was at all better than actually waiting for your target to cast something and interrupt it. Many times, right after firing off both skills, the target will start casting something like Meteor Shower, which now can't be interrupted because both your skills are recharging, so often it's a terrible idea. In addition, the after-cast delay from the interrupt skills seems to counter any advantage gained from the faster activation. Most of the time, the ranger might get lucky and interrupt something the first time, but if the target is smart, they'll just wait until the ranger has used both interrupts then cast to counter any damage the ranger may have done. However, if the target does nothing to compensate, they'll suddenly find their skills getting interrupted. Smart playing almost always trumps mindless playing. --Curse You(talk|contribs) 20:47, 15 September 2009 (UTC)

WTS interrupts that deal +dmg, WTB more shutdown, e-denial, etc... Then you can increase recharge. Better effects don't need such spammability because 1)Spammable d-shots (and the like) are imba, 2)Better effects are better at preventing enemies from casting.--Underwood 20:56, 15 September 2009 (UTC)

I don't suck, so naturally, I haven't tried spamming interrupts for the purposes of spamming them. This doesn't negate the fact that players who do spam them still exist. ~Shard 05:25, 16 September 2009 (UTC)

So you're saying that it's a bad idea and yet you still think it needs to be nerfed? Frankly, I think the fact that arrows take time to get to your target, even interrupts, and the fact they need LoS to work weakens them enough. Heck, Guardian can prevent you from interrupting someone half the time. Mesmers, on the other hand don't need LoS and the interrupt is simultaneous with activation. Because of this, Ranger's end up not hitting their target with interrupts quite often, requiring that their interrupts have a faster recharge so they can try again soon afterwards, whereas Mesmers don't have to worry about failing to hit and so need longer recharges because as long as the user is able to time it right, they'll interrupt their target.

In addition, the purposed change has many mechanic flaws that should be glaringly obvious. For one, if the arrow misses, whether due to blindness or the target dodging it, according to the wording, the ranger will suffer the negative effect. Frankly, you can't expect a player to anticipate things like getting blinded mid-shot or their target kiting the shot. Sure they could stand next to their target, but then that defeats the whole purpose of using a bow. The only way to prevent this is to make it do the check for skill activation when the shot is fired, but that has its own problems. Since a ranger's arrow can take time to get to the target, many rangers will anticipate a skill being used and activate their interrupt a few seconds before their target casts (trust me, it's not that hard). This tactic, which uses knowledge of the targets bar requires skill to do effectively, but would be punished if it required the target be casting at time of activation. --Curse You(talk|contribs) 14:04, 16 September 2009 (UTC)

Flight time doesn't matter when you are standing near your target.--Underwood 21:55, 16 September 2009 (UTC)

Bows aren't short range weapons. Unless you're using a Shortbow, they have the longest range of any weapon and it's often wise to take advantage of that. True it's better to get closer when you're going to interrupt, but that's not always an option. Also, physical attacks (like arrows) can be blocked or miss, spells can't. --Curse You(talk|contribs) 22:18, 16 September 2009 (UTC)

Personally, I agree that ranger interrupts need a downside. I've suggested on my userspace that ranger interrupts be given a 2-3 second disable if they don't interrupt a skill. I don't want anything too harsh, I for example am not a great interrupter. But I do find it necessary to use interrupts to stave off auto attacks at times in the hopes of getting an attack skill. Even If I don't get a skill I stop and delay attacks from connecting. Even disregarding that though 10 seconds or a blanket 5 seems too harsh to me and looking back 2 seconds seems too insignificant. A single skill disable of 3-5 seconds seems to leave room for viability in use while not being masterful at interrupting. I feel skills should be balanced around the top 33% not the top 10%. A 10 second disable seems to be balanced around the top 5% imo. ~>Sins WDB 00:07, 19 September 2009 (UTC)

Why? Interrupting is something that Rangers have always been superior at, just like Hammer Warriors are better at KDs and stuff like that. That's inter-class dynamics, not something I'd like to change, especially since this specific case hasn't been touched since day one. Punishing a failed interrupt is going to hurt all Rangers, from top to bottom level. Savage Shot is also more of a multi-purpose skill than an interrupt, something that makes the change even worse for that skill. Shard's reason to nerf this skill, interrupt spamming, is something that only applies to like the bottom 30%. I honestly don't understand why he even gives a shit about those levels of gameplay. Dark Morphon 15:02, 19 September 2009 (UTC)

What about "If that action was not a skill, you die."? :D No? Maybe? =P I would welcome these changes. They wouldn't hurt the people who are actually good at interrupts, and it would punish the people who are clumsy with them (I'm pretty guilty of this). I don't know if it's really necessary on the elites, specifically Punishing Shot. Also, this skill is sad you left it out. Bathory talk 17:05, 24 September 2009 (UTC)

Top Rangers make mistakes as well. Also, it's very hard to hit skills like Word of Healing. You also have to consider smart Monks that will cleverly cancel skills which makes it even harder to hit important skills. Not interrupting the key skill and not having access to interrupting key skills for 10 seconds is enough punishment for badly using Dshot because the main niche of that skill is taking out important skills. Concerning Savage Shot, it's actually used for other things than interrupting quite a lot. Disabling the skill for an additional 10 seconds will make it impossible to use it for such functions, something that's unacceptable as using it for these things is not overpowered. The only argument that still stands is that it is used poorly by bad people but honestly, that argument is simply awful. That's like doing something similar to Bull's Strike because noobs use it on recharge and sometimes land the KD (especially comparable to Dshot). That's like disabling Word of Healing for 3 seconds if you don't heal someone below 50% health with it. The fact that you don't have Bulls when you need it or WoH when you need it is enough punishment. Same goes for Ranger interrupts. Dark Morphon 14:40, 25 September 2009 (UTC)

And the cost of canceling Word of Healing is losing 5 energy. There should be tradeoffs for everything, and many skills in GW have no downside at all, which is really, really bad, balance-wise. Right now, GW is "who has more pew pew" game, but back when good players dominated high-end-pvp, it was a strategy game. Obviously, you needed skills, but if you were a shit monk with imba heals, leeloof would migraine you and you wouldn't cast anything the entire match. If you were a great monk with regular heals, you could outsmart him with cancels and veil timing etc. This is what GW should be about. It should not be about "lol VoR bai." In this case, it should not be "123123123123 LOL I HIT UR ROF!!!" ~Shard 03:07, 26 September 2009 (UTC)

o hay, Shard and I agree about something. I can't namedrop good people though. :( In any case, he is right. The skills you bring shouldn't matter quite as a much as how you use them. Yes, you'll always need to bring skills that fit the format (RA, GvG and HB all require different types of bars, for instance) but it should never boil down to "They won because they have a Ranger with Magebane Shot" it should be "They won because their Ranger never missed with Magebane Shot". Bathory talk 03:16, 26 September 2009 (UTC)

How is not being able to disable WoH not a downside? How is an aftercast (which is on every Ranger interrupt) not a downside? You have answered exactly one of my arguments and ignored the others. Dark Morphon 12:15, 26 September 2009 (UTC)

If a player is good enough (and is willing to lose 5 energy) to cancel his woh to avoid a dshot, then he gets that one up. That's called player skill. Maybe you've heard of it. I'd barely call what you're saying an argument, because interrupt spamming is a problem whether or not you're right. Builds that require zero skill and have huge reward for people who play them badly are a problem. This isn't debatable, the only thing you could debate about is what should be done about them. Also, I don't understand what you mean by "Not being able to disable WoH." ~Shard 22:25, 26 September 2009 (UTC)

Two points of disagreeal: First, the Ranger bar does NOT take zero skill to play at all, in fact, it's probably one of the hardest bars to play well in the game. Second, random interrupting is a horrible strategy. I'm a pretty average player. If I play a midline caster or a monk, I never have any problems dodging those interrupts because they are so predictable. Basically, any player that can't is quite horrible and deserves to lose. Horrible players use horrible strategies and horrible players defeat even worse players. I wouldn't call that a problem, that's just how it goes. That's like giving Bull's Strike the same downside because horrible Warriors knock down people ocassionally with it. Just because you can pull it off doesn't make you automatically an effective Warrior, much like how interrupting "some" skill will not make you an effective Ranger. It requires much more timing and insight. Even being able to interrupt skills whenever your interrupts recharge (it's not hard, just aim for those easy to interrupt 1 cast skills) doesn't automatically make you a good Ranger. You have to hit important skills (something that takes a great amount of risk because you have to aim for hard-to-interrupt 3/4c spells), spread poison (something you can't even do if you interrupt randomly) and split from your team at the right time. Also, "huge reward"? Hitting a skill that you don't even need to get interrupted (in this case, Reversal of Fortune) isn't a huge reward. Look, if random interrupting was such a problem, you'd see it being done in top GvG. As it stands, nobody does that there. By "Not being able to disable WoH." I mean that since your important interrupt is recharging, Word of Healing can be used freely and you're not able to interrupt it. Oh and please don't use that mocking tone on me, it sounds a bit odd out of the mouth of the person that claimed Mesmers are a defensive class and should have gotten a Foul Feast-like skill instead of Necromancers. Dark Morphon 09:06, 27 September 2009 (UTC)

I should add, I love risky play. By doing this, you're forcing Rangers to play a lot more secure. That's a change I wouldn't like to see. Dark Morphon 09:39, 27 September 2009 (UTC)

Bow interrupts are obviously more powerful when you use them correctly. That's not being argued. What's being argued is that you can still hit skills fairly often when you don't try to use them right, and you don't get punished for it. Bathory talk 16:35, 27 September 2009 (UTC)

So does Bull's Strike, what's your argument against that? Dark Morphon 08:43, 28 September 2009 (UTC)

Actually, Bull's Strike is an Energy skill in a profession that has low Energy regeneration and needs to use their Energy carefully. If you miss with Bull's, you've spent 5 Energy on what is essentially a normal attack with some armor penetration. Not worth it. If you're a Ranger, you've got Expertise. This "10 Energy" skill is costing you around 6 or 7 Energy most of the time and you have more Energy regeneration than the Warrior. Bathory talk 14:31, 28 September 2009 (UTC)

That's true, but Bull's Strike doesn't have an aftercast. Also, if you use Bull's Strike on recharge it doesn't exactly limit your other abilities very much since you don't take much energy skills anyway and the fact that by the time [Bull's Strike]] recharges you have regained your energy, just like the aftercast won't exactly limit your other abilities very much because it only affects you briefly after which you can continue to spread Poison normally again. And for both it's true that if you use them badly you won't be able to use them when you really need them. So both have a small cost (some energy for Bull's Strike, some energy and an aftercast for Bow interrupts), both have quite some effect when used badly most of the time, neither one of them punishes bad use and both of them are a lot better when used properly. Yet you don't complain about Bull's Strike but Bow interrupts ARE a problem. Sounds odd to me. Dark Morphon 15:03, 28 September 2009 (UTC)

Bull's Strike can't stop skills, for one. You have to be moving to get knocked down and you can't use a skill while moving. Second, making your bar mostly adrenal to deal with the fact that you want to use Bull's Strike often is a drawback since you know you can't use too many Energy-based skills. It's also not ranged. I am having trouble seeing how they're alike. Bathory talk 06:03, 30 September 2009 (UTC)

Bull's Strike doesn't stop skill use, but it does stop movement. While these are different niches, you can't deny the fact that using them in the same way has the same effect in their niche. I don't really understand your second argument because most skill bars are pretty carved in stone by now. A standard axe Warrior build has 3 energy skills (PR, Bull's, Shock), of which only Shock can really make your energy tight when misused because of Exhaustion. Bull's Strike certainly doesn't put much pressure on it. Concerning your third argument (the range), Warriors are designed to be in the opponent's face all the time anyway, making this little of a concern. If you camp one opponent (which is a horrible strategy) and if you take Primal Rage, you won't have much problems keeping up unless the opposing team has a lot of snares and you have no way to remove them. But all this is besides the main argument, namely that this skill too doesn't punish bad use very much and does reward getting lucky. Your points are just niche things and don't have much to do with strategical implications. Dark Morphon 11:52, 30 September 2009 (UTC)

Preference of the options

Preference is the attack skill disable. Personally I'd like to just see interrupts disabled and only for about 3-4 seconds. The idea is, almost anything can be cast if they fuck up one interrupt (except meteor shower or spirits) so it makes cancelling more powerful and interrupt spamming woefully easy to avoid. Rangers should be encouraged to guess and use their interrupts to spread poison in my opinion. A short disable will allow them to do that while fucking with spray and pray thoughts. Misery 16:47, 27 September 2009 (UTC)

Um...wouldn't adding draw backs to ranger interrupts just make Mesmers more popular? Karate Jesus 14:50, 28 September 2009 (UTC)

Mesmers have interrupts? ~Shard 02:33, 29 September 2009 (UTC)

Mesmers are pretty unpopular these days anyway KJ. The reason why I prefer this option is that it only punishes spamming, not guessing. Misery 08:48, 29 September 2009 (UTC)

PEOPLE

NEED TO THINK WHEN TO MASH THEIR D-SHOT BUTTON NO MORE SHOOTING RUPTS AT RANDOM. /SIGNED Nectarines // 15:05 28 September 2009(UTC)

Oi, I actually have no idea why I wrote this in allcaps. :D Nectarines // 15:06 28 September 2009(UTC)

....if they shoot rupts at random all it does is make them look like a fucktard....so why would this change anything? Karate Jesus 15:07, 28 September 2009 (UTC)

I agree with Karate Jesus, who is not only our saviour but also a karate master. Dark Morphon 15:24, 28 September 2009 (UTC)

^ truth. Karate Jesus 15:29, 28 September 2009 (UTC)

You got it all wrong! D': I wasn't talking about random d-shot spammage you get from RA rangers, not as bad, I was talking of when people shoot rupts in hope of rupting stuff they can't reflex. Get what I mean? :3 Nectarines // 15:35 28 September 2009(UTC)

Its when you often see people shoot rupts in hope they predicted whats going to be used and their rupt hits it. :O Nectarines // 15:37 28 September 2009(UTC)

Random but not that random kind of random. :3 Nectarines // 15:39 28 September 2009(UTC)

Did you just comment three times in a row? Why not just edit the first comment? Anywho, I unload my rupts right as a player is about to die (especially healers). Does that make me bad? Karate Jesus 15:41, 28 September 2009 (UTC)

I have, sorry. I hit enter too fast. :( I have some sort of interweb sugar rush today, with an exception I didnt eat much sugar at all. Oh and no not at all, it just feels wrong that you can do it without a drawback, it feels wrong that these ranger rupts have no tradeoff. Short recharge, no energy cost. Nectarines // 15:44 28 September 2009(UTC)

Many of the skills that are important enough to interrupt have short recharges too. If the recharges were longer it would be amazingly easy to just fake-out a ranger then blast off a bunch of skills while they wait out the recharge. It's easy enough already to fake out a ranger then cast Meteor Shower with current recharges. --Curse You(talk|contribs) 17:08, 29 September 2009 (UTC)

This to mesmer skills as well cause they can accidently press the interrupt button and interrupt your spell and then you can lose >-> ranger interrupts are fine as they are now. Raemon 07:45, 5 October 2009 (UTC)

I've already shown that they are not. Mesmer skills have much longer recharges and higher (if not equal) energy costs. ~Shard 07:46, 5 October 2009 (UTC)

Why only interrupts ? lets add this to every skill--- like --- Falling spider if you fail to hit knoked down foe this skill is disabled for + 10 seconds or Devastating hammer if you fail to knok down foe you are weakened or if you fail to cast this spell you will suffer from dazed and so on. I see no point with this suggestion if interrupts are being punished from being unlucky/bad why not every other skill as well ? + like someone allready said mesmer interrupts are way faster and you cannot be blinded/blocked etc. Raemon 08:36, 5 October 2009 (UTC)

Mesmer interrupts (mostly) only affect spells, cost more than bow interrupts because they aren't affected by Expertise, and almost always recharge slower. Slippery slope argument is bad, as well: there's nothing wrong with Falling Spider or devhammer, at least not nearly in the same way as with dshot and company. Vili 点 08:38, 5 October 2009 (UTC)

How i understood this change this is only meant to punish bad players so why not add this to everything else as well and punish all the bad players for their failures ? so why not ? lets make the game harder. Mesmers dont have expertise but they do have many skills that give energy and they have more energy + energy regeneration. Raemon 09:31, 5 October 2009 (UTC)

I wouldn't like that, which is why I don't support this change and wouldn't support similar changes. Concerning Mesmer interrupts, you generally use them for the interrupt effect whereas you use Savage Shot mostly for the fast activation and fast recharging interrupt. Dark Morphon 16:19, 5 October 2009 (UTC)

I would like that! The thing is, a lot of skills already punish players for being bad. Falling spider, as you mentioned, misses when you suck, and your combo stops until FS recharges. Frenzy opens you up to taking tons of damage unless you're paying good attention to the other team. This is just one small group of skills that has no risk. ~Shard 01:12, 6 October 2009 (UTC)

Falling Spider instantly recharges when you miss, just pointing that out. Dark Morphon 06:18, 6 October 2009 (UTC)

Oh, I didn't know that (I don't fail when I use sin combos... but that's an inherent contradiction isn't it). They should change them to behave like regular skills. ~Shard 06:20, 6 October 2009 (UTC)

As I mentioned before, I consider having your interrupt recharging and not being able to use it when there are more important skills to interrupt a punishment. This only goes for Distracting Shot. Savage Shot just has a completely different use. Dark Morphon 06:47, 6 October 2009 (UTC)

I think ranger interrupts should be balanced like concussion shot. Conc shot is balanced because of the high energy cost that penalizes you if you miss. But, oh boy, if you hit someone with it, depending on the arena and person you hit. It could spell game over. Especially in lower level arenas which have the biggest problem with spamming and usually only one healer.68.230.122.127 18:57, 1 November 2009 (UTC)

Concussion shot would be better balanced at 15 energy, bcs RC, LS, and FF + PS make daze lol.~>Sins WDB 19:00, 1 November 2009 (UTC)

Daze the RC= a pain in the rear. Dark Morphon 17:14, 19 November 2009 (UTC)

Something I just thought of

This doesn't kill random interrupting as you can still do it. I mean, it's terrible but it's a terrible strategy now as well. You can't fix random interrupting. Terrible players will always use terrible strategies, no matter how terrible exactly these strategies are. Dark Morphon 17:10, 9 January 2010 (UTC)

Of course it's impossible to completely stop people from doing that. I thought these suggestions were just to punish using terrible strategies, not kill them. Bathory talk 19:50, 9 January 2010 (UTC)

The point of this is that if those players use a terrible strategy, they will not be as effective as good players. ~Shard 19:54, 9 January 2010 (UTC)

Yes and as argued above, players using this terrible strategy aren't anywhere near as effective as good players. Dark Morphon 13:16, 10 January 2010 (UTC)

TBH

AFAIK people just use magebane and savage to poisonspread most of the time tab savage tab tab savage tab tab ... . So only way to hit it is on recharge so you won't waste a int on poisonspread.Lilondra 13:27, 10 January 2010 (UTC)

Another fix would be to increase the aftercast on interrupts to the point that auto-attacking outdoes the Poison spread done by auto->interrupt. That way, it wouldn't make sense to spread Poison with interrupts and random interrupting would be punished by the aftercast even more (while also making dodging random interrupting more easy). Afaik, that covers all the issues people have with Ranger interrupts. Dark Morphon 15:59, 11 January 2010 (UTC)

Sometimes You Need to Spam Interrupts

Think about it, word of healing. How is anyone supposed to interrupt that? The flight time for a recurve bow is 0.20-0.45 seconds+human reaction time 0.2 seconds+activation time 0.25 seconds+bandwidth 0.08-0.09 seconds at 8-10mps. That rounds to around 0.8-0.9 seconds. When trying to interrupt Word of Healing or any other heal skill that has a 3/4 or 1/2 second skill time and is spammable because of low energy, one needs to really predict, even though monks can easily change their patterns after you interrupt their WoH 3 times in a row, what is going to happen next. Well, sometimes you miscalculate or/mispredict which leads to a interrupt skill not interrupting a skill or spell. --The preceding unsigned comment was added by 99.140.217.22 (talk).

Count the recharge and interrupt it the next time they cast it. If you've ever played a fighting game, it's no different. You have to predict when your opponent will do something. That's completely different from spamming and hoping you get lucky.

Reflexing WoH is still possible anyway, it's just harder than most spells. ~Shard 22:32, 9 July 2010 (UTC)