Talk:Atrophy

O_O

O_o*

ditto... --VVong|BA 23:13, 20 July 2007 (UTC)

O.O ~ Reaper 23:49, 20 July 2007 (UTC)

0-o--The preceding unsigned comment was added by User:84.24.206.123 .

Vs rangers? energy denial Vs elementalist? energy denial Vs monk? significantly reduced healing (esp for prot) woot! Vs assassin? energy denial Vs paragon? energy denial Vs dervish? energy denial --The preceding unsigned comment was added by User:71.65.229.212 .

This is better than most non-elites. --Heelz 01:56, 21 July 2007 (UTC)

Worse than most elites though... good skill and very interesting. Nice and original too!Rakeman 03:05, 21 July 2007 (UTC)

Very nice way to shut down most classes. Like said above, pretty much massive energy denial to any class besides warrior. Even other necromancers would get hurt by this (0 from soul reaping would hurt). What i'm wondering about is if this will hurt ritualists or mesmers close to as badly as it hurts classes like ranger or ele.--132.160.31.135 03:33, 21 July 2007 (UTC)

Pwns but shortlived. Useful against everyone! Well, except warriors and mesmers. In addition to the energy denial, it's also health denial against dervishes. Sirocco 04:58, 21 July 2007 (UTC)

Mesmers would be destroyed by this. --Edru viransu 05:00, 21 July 2007 (UTC)

Rits won't be affected by this because they don't have much use for Spawning Power. --24.179.151.252 05:46, 21 July 2007 (UTC)

OOOOO.OOOOO This will probably become an Elite Skill 85.145.25.54 08:11, 21 July 2007 (UTC)

No elites in GW:EN, this skill is as it is. --ChronicinabilitY 11:00, 21 July 2007 (UTC)

You've listed every class, but I think most of you are overlooking the particular effectiveness against elementalists. This cuts them down almost 40 energy, as most eles tend to run at 13+ Energy Storage.24.186.207.198 06:03, 26 July 2007 (UTC)

In what game? --YukoIshii 12:09, 26 July 2007 (UTC)

I think it's a bit on the weak side. We're looking at a short duration, long recharge hex here, in the vein of Shame or Diversion - the kind of hex the game really needs more of. Those hexes need to be really nasty for the time that they're on to justify bringing. This accomplishes that on a Ranger (who gets thoroughly rocked without Expertise, he probably won't be able to use skills at all), and situationally on an Ele (if he's low on energy this turns him off, but if he isn't already it does nothing). Against everyone else it's a nuisance. It does nothing to Warriors and Ritualists, provides some light edenial to Assassins, Dervishes, Paragons, and perhaps Necromancers, a little bit of healing reduction for Monks, and about a 50% slower cast time on Mesmers. Nothing in there to get excited about. There will be some spot use in knocking out a key skill on someone's bar from time to time, but for the most part this is a hex to turn off midline Rangers and Eles for a little bit. I think it'd be good for the game for this to see play, so I'd suggest dropping the recharge to 15, in accordance with it being a more narrow, less critical shutdown skill, and one without long term consequences to the target. -Ensign 12:01, 21 July 2007 (UTC)

If you'd go 15r, then MoR will get this skill to be almost maintainable on a target (6s+6s duration = 12s vs 15r). Luckily, the 10e is there to make that seriously tough, since 10e+MoR is awful on energy. I see merit in going for that lower recharge. I also understand why this isn't directly a mesmer skill, since the combo with MoR would be quite good. --  (CoRrRan / talk) 12:37, 21 July 2007 (UTC)

Well, would it? You're basically dedicating a character to maintaining this on someone, how good is that really? While I think the skill is good to temporarily shut down an Ele part way into a fight, if you start cycling this on him he'll be shut down hard for a short while but will end up regenerating back into a useful energy range, at which point this won't do anything to him anymore. Cycling it on a Ranger is a bit more promising, this shuts him down pretty hard, with a notable exception of Distracting Shot. How hard is the shutdown when they still get to use their best skill at will with little penalty? The skill really isn't the all-star it's being made out to be. I'd be hard pressed to put it on a typical Curses bar, even if it had a shorter recharge. -Ensign 19:56, 21 July 2007 (UTC)

Good comments ensign! -Rakeman 19:45, 21 July 2007 (UTC)

The negative energy possibilities are pretty scary, and under MoR with an e-tap it would become pretty convincing complete ele shutdown from 3 skills, with enough e-management to do other things. We shall see though...87.194.99.197 14:30, 22 July 2007 (UTC)

We are all forgetting here, everyone is complaining about melandrus dervish...here is your counter. 10 second form completely ruins the mels dervish and makes him useless.--Mylite 05:28, 18 August 2007 (UTC)

Reducing it all the way to 0 'seems' pretty harsh, and a fair number of playstyles get shut down by it (most obvious being Elementalist's energy storage and a dervish based around Pious Renewal). That being said, the costs for it are ok, its like alot of other shutdowns which just prevent a player from working for a few seconds, the effect wears off, and they move on. Its similar to holding off on casting if you have diversion on you. Its also a Hex spell rather than a spell effect, so it can be countered. Really if you glower at it hard enough, its not quite as menacing as one would think, although I believe it would probably seem less "overpowering" if it beared similarity in casting costs (namely time) to diversionn OR the primary attribute reduction scaled a fair amount like -6...-15. --Tayos 23:14, 21 July 2007 (UTC) I'm laughing my ass of with this skill, but on the other hand I'm like....oh crap ----InfestedHydralisk 18:58, 24 July 2007 (UTC)

In PvP arena, this is quite a useful skill for crippling a spike...long enough to thwart it. Necros are often at the midline dealing damage and supporting, so they have to be aware of everything and can see a spike developing. Gwynna Vive 10:39, 26 July 2007 (UTC)

You're forgetting that this also brings the skills down to level 0. Dervishes with 15 second Avatars, Spirit warriors that can't even maintain Spirit's Strength, the list goes on. Most skills in the Primary attribute are put there so that secondaries don't get much usage out of them, and this helps render those skills even less powerful. Ayumbhara 16:13, 30 July 2007 (UTC)

This skill was a really bad idea. It is strong enough to be an elite. This really hits mesmers, rangers, assassins, paragons, and dervishes hard. -Warskull 04:02, 31 July 2007 (UTC)

they wanna give necros a hug after all the nerfing. - Y0_ich_halt 13:34, 31 July 2007 (UTC)

Energy Storage?

Interesting skill. Nice to see an inventive one rather than all the extensions/duplications of existing skills. How would this square with energy storage, though? Could it reduce you to negative energy while it's on you, if you were low already? Or just to 0? If not just to 0, maybe add a clause so that's the case, to allow weapon switching (the traditional response to energy denial) a better chance to partially overcome this? Otherwise looks like it might be a bit overpowered as an ele shutdown... --The preceding unsigned comment was added by User:85.92.179.71 .

Re: Well, if it reduces the energy too, then we have a nice way to kill an ele, using the mesmer skill Aneurysm after this hex ends--The preceding unsigned comment was added by User:201.79.179.149 .

That shouldn't work, since, with the exception of Exhaustion, current energy goes up and down whenever maximum energy goes up or down. -- Gordon Ecker 01:25, 21 July 2007 (UTC)

It removes the energy and then gives it back much like any other max reducing effect in our game, it would take 3*energy storage energy away from them, and when it ends they would get 3*energy storage back. Sorta like swaping between a +15 energy set. ~Izzy @-'---- 01:48, 21 July 2007 (UTC)

And THIS is what killed the Energy Blast spike before it even got to halls! --ChronicinabilitY 02:00, 21 July 2007 (UTC)

Lol, yup.... I was thinking that before... ~~ frvwfr2 (talk · contributions) 03:12, 21 July 2007 (UTC)

Why do necros get all the interesting spells?! My mesmer is thinking of moonlighting from now on.--Redfeather 04:21, 21 July 2007 (UTC)

The sad thing is that I came up with an idea similar to this for mesmers before this came out. :( --Ufelder 05:59, 21 July 2007 (UTC)

3 assassin/necro on 3 different monk and gg.. they cant health each others with health prayers 0, or protective at 0,

Wow - @the reply before mine. Do you even read? "target foe's PRIMARY attribute is reduced to 0." --Ss

Mind Wrack + Wither + Malaise + this used on an ele maybe? 24.71.148.177 04:20, 24 July 2007 (UTC)

Mechanic's Question

Izzy, does this work on skills that are activated that are affected by a primary attribute when this is cast? In the case of this being used while someone is activating Avatar of Melandru, would this make Avatar of Melandru last 10 seconds? If so, this is the answer to our prayers. Thanks. Living Parasite 05:07, 22 July 2007 (UTC)

Most Likely skills activated while under the original (i.e. high) attribute level will not be affected. Becuase they will be based upon the original stats, not the new stats.--142.167.16.77 19:52, 22 July 2007 (UTC)

That's what I'm thinking happens. I just hope I'm wrong. Living Parasite 22:17, 22 July 2007 (UTC)

EDIT: Just tested how weakness works when used on a foe activating a skill. I used a M/N with Enfeeble against an E/? with Lightning Orb. In the test, weakness affected the Lightning Orb's damage. If Atrophy works like weakness did, Atrophy will affect skills that are currently being activated. Living Parasite 22:44, 22 July 2007 (UTC)

I'm not too sure how this will work, I'll go play around with it real quick and see, if I recall it doesn't check attribute until execution, so it would effect if you hit it mid cast. ~Izzy @-'---- 00:31, 24 July 2007 (UTC)

Ok looks like I was right, it doesn't check until skill execution so if someone uses it on you mid cast you will cast it at 0 spec so it only lasts 10s. ~Izzy @-'---- 00:36, 24 July 2007 (UTC)

Wow. But I guess it would have to be properly timed at 1 sec cast time, still this skill keeps getting interesting. :) Xitoahc 00:39, 24 July 2007 (UTC)

Another kind of diversion. Pay attention and press esc is ftw. Nice skill btw. --YukoIshii 12:12, 26 July 2007 (UTC)

Should be a MESMER skill

I play a necro as one of my two main characters, so I'm loving this skill -- but it shouldn't *be* a necro skill! This is essentially an energy denial skill against rangers and elementalists; as such it "fits" design-wise with the intent of mesmers. Aren't necros already powerful-enough? ChaoticCoyote 14:03, 23 July 2007 (UTC)

It makes sense as a Necro skill, not a Mesmer one. For one, Mesmers don't wither away peoples' bodies. For another, Necros are the ones who cause Weakness, which lowers attribute ranks as well. And just because you think its only purpose is "energy denial," doesn't mean that's its function. It lowers attribute ranks, which just happens to be energy denial for a couple professions. Capcom 23:46, 23 July 2007 (UTC)

Yeah it does make sense for it to be a Necro skill. If it were a mesmer skill (in Domination) then the mesmer would have to be in command of that, or have a secondary punishment for taking those attributes away. Of course, it would always cost more and be a lot less effective, such is the curse of the mesmer. :S

I agree that this should be a Mesmer skill (with a different name, naturally). But this did happen before. Depravity is also an e-denial skill and should have been a Mesmer skill, yet it ended up with the Necro. :( Xelonir 15:31, 27 July 2007 (UTC)

Mesmers with fast casting can make more use of this skill arguably, in the same way that it allows hem to throw in thos key Diversions when needed. Although in this cast, the difference between 1->0.6 seconds cast time on this skill is nothing like as significant as how fast Scasting afects diversion. Still, I agree that this looks like a domination skill to me, and I'm he sort of person who thinks spiteful spirit should have been a mesmer skill, even though I spend most of my hours on my necro. --Ckal Ktak 15:32, 2 August 2007 (UTC)

Yey for superlate responses... The Necromancer's Curses attribute has always included energy denial. This skill makes perfect sense to be in Necromancer, as Mesmers have never lowered attribute levels like Wail of Doom and Weakness. <>Sparky, the Tainted 23:04, 17 March 2009 (UTC)

Kind of weak

There's no builds out there that relies on primary attribute so much that it'll get devastated by this. Nowadays, primary attribute is only 25~33% of the power. Lightblade 16:22, 23 July 2007 (UTC)

Well, there's always monks and Signet of Devotion. D: -- (^T/_C) 17:04, 23 July 2007 (UTC)

You have no idea how fun this is on a touch ranger :P ~Izzy @-'---- 00:34, 24 July 2007 (UTC)

Signet of Devotion is only minor healing anyways. For 7 seconds, this hex won't do much impact. Yes, it does hurt touch ranger, but only 7 seconds. The hex have down time of 13 seconds! That's very little impact. Lightblade 01:37, 24 July 2007 (UTC)

Well, yes, but it can still be used on a Mesmer with MoR for less downtime, only four seconds between intervals if you were running 12 Curses. There's also always Arcane Echo for an option. -- Luigi (^T/_C) 17:37, 24 July 2007 (UTC)

You seem to be underestimating the stupidity of the common player, particularly the touchranger. I have, on many different situations, seen a touchranger charge up and start touching me when I started casting Diversion on him as soon as he got within range. A touchranger with this on him will not stop touching and will find that all his energy is gone very quickly --66.67.187.203 20:33, 24 July 2007 (UTC)

i wanna see the upcoming resilient boon prots vs this ☼.☼ - Y0_ich_halt 21:00, 24 July 2007 (UTC)

Dervish forms need mysticism. All forms take 2 seconds to cast, this takes one second. I wish I could see the look on a Melandru dervish's face when it wears off in 10 seconds.--Supertrek32 18:52, 25 July 2007 (UTC)

That won't work, it's at the time of casting, so when you start casting it you get the full time. If you then get this hex on you, it won't affect what your casting, therefore you must cast it BEFORE they begin to cast the avatar. That could be hard, but I have managed it, and the reaction you get in an Alliance Battle is quite fun ^_^ Larnu 03:10, 6 August 2007 (DST)

uh... no, the attribute is evaluated when it is by game mechanics cast, as in, after the cast time. I have many a time ruined in-progress spells. You can even destroy a mm's army if you time it right (down to 2 minions).

Skill needs to be fixed. "Hex Spell. For 30...60...70 seconds, target foe's Expertise is reduced to 0." D: --Akaraxle 22:17, 26 July 2007 (UTC)

For any non-caster class, just ask yourself, would you rather be hexed by this, or Spirit Shackles at an equal spec?--Skye Marin 02:57, 31 August 2007 (UTC)

Elite

Better be. Readem (talk*gwwcontribs) 01:51, 24 July 2007 (UTC)

No elites in GW:EN. 04:21, 24 July 2007 (UTC)

(edit conflict)nah. nobody would take it if it was. and there's no elites in gwen - Skakid9090 04:22, 24 July 2007 (UTC)

This is completely overpowered, for the following reasons

• Versus Rangers- they end up spending a lot more energy for ranger skills which are not really worth their cost
• Versus Monks- You just knocked out a major healing source.
• Versus Elementalists- Allows you to suddenly remove a lot of their energy
• Versus Mesmers- A lot of mesmer skills have long cast time. Being without Fast Casting = bad.
• Versus Necromancers- No energy for them.
• Versus ninjas- No energy for them, and you just halved their chance to critical.
• Versus Paragons- No energy for them (no leadership)
• Versus Dervishes- Slightly reduces their energy.

This is borked because it hits some professions hard while others are really not affected.

Mantra of Recovery

With Mantra of recovery, recharge goes down to 10 seconds, and at 10 curses, it can go up to 6 seconds, which is almost slightly overpowered ... what do you all think ?

If you're willing to spend 10% of your time shutting down someone for up to 6 seconds, when it can be removed, and costing practically 3 pips of energy regeneration to keep it up, by all means, go ahead and do so. --Kale Ironfist 09:46, 24 July 2007 (UTC)

And it's not "shutting down", it's annying at most. --YukoIshii 12:15, 26 July 2007 (UTC)

it will shut down the target, if you get the right one. you just have to find someone depending on his primary attrib. and that's not hard if you know builds. still not pretty effective, though. you'd need to design one character just for using this skill every 7 seconds. everything you could do inbetween would be... kiting? sig smiting? - Y0_ich_halt 13:36, 26 July 2007 (UTC)

How do you smite on an Me/N? --Ufelder 13:39, 26 July 2007 (UTC)

1337 5k1llz. - Y0_ich_halt 13:40, 26 July 2007 (UTC)

LoO_OoL

Maybe a buff is needed for versatility

In its present state, as some have pointed out, it's annoying at best to a few classes with specific builds. However it could really be a nice little skill to bring for general use with a buff like this:

Atrophy

Hex Spell. For 3..6..7 seconds, the next 1..3..3 skills attempted by target foe will have their attribute reduced to 0.

10E/1C/20R

That would be a ton of fun to play with. It would have a different impact on every build of every class. Some can just wait it out, others will be in panic mode. arredondo 04:48, 28 July 2007 (UTC)

That will be kinda overpowerd then ----InfestedHydralisk 13:31, 28 July 2007 (UTC)

I don't think it'll be too overpowered:

1. You might catch Frenzy, that won't do anything
2. It's only for 3...6...7 seconds, perhaps even not long enough.
3. It has a recharge of 20s.

I think I would like such a change to the skill. Perhaps just a reduction of 50% (if that is game mechanically possible) with a longer duration? --  (CoRrRan / talk) 13:51, 28 July 2007 (UTC)

Well, because even when successful the effect wears off in 7s with no permanent harm done, I think dropping to level 0 if triggered within 7s over dropping -50% of the attribute with a longer duration would be best. Diversion obviously hurts a skill it snares for up to 1 minute and it has a 12s recharge, so the impact of this skill should hit hard right up front to justify the 20s recharge. Actually, now that I think about it I would even like to see it as a .25s cast. Heh, imagine tagging an Ele's Elemental Attunement just as he tries to put it back up, one of his key Wards, or a Mesmer's E-Surge. arredondo 15:34, 28 July 2007 (UTC)

i think it would be ok like this, the only thing i don't really like is the activation. with 1s and fastcast you could hit this into an rc prot's rc and knock him out. you're missing a duration for the reduction, btw. as it is, it would mean the hex stays on for the given duration and shuts down the attribs without any time limit. but anyway, it would make mesmer far funnier :) - Y0_ich_halt 18:26, 28 July 2007 (UTC)

Only if you know when the RC is going to be casted, then you might have a chance to catch it with 1s cast of this skill. RC is 0.75¾th and that is just too low to catch it with a 1s cast spell, even with FC. Do consider that there is a lag in the game as well as a reaction time of the player casting this skill. Personally I would have loved to have this skill in the Domination line instead of the Curses line. This skill is so much more mesmerish than necroish. --  (CoRrRan / talk) 18:44, 28 July 2007 (UTC)

got me there. i was thinking of any 1s spell. oh, lol. thought it's mesmer xD - Y0_ich_halt 19:12, 28 July 2007 (UTC)

This skill is extremely powerful. Not only does it shutdown certain classes, (Mesmer and eles), but also provides a nice period of time for a spike to be performed. HA N/A's with aug/siphon will run around once more :). Readem (talk*gwwcontribs) 22:48, 1 August 2007 (UTC)

A mesmer with FC @ 0 is certainly not shut down, neither are ele's. If (and only if) this skill is cycled on an ele he'll lose some energy, but he can still cope. After all, all other caster classes can work with the same energy pool as ele's without Energy Storage. And if someone is cycling this skill on a target, you're almost dedicating one player to take out another, and that's not really useful to a 8 person team.

You should realize that because this skill is only setting the primary attribute on 0 and that attribute line is mostly used for energy management effects/skills (except for mesmers). And on a sidenote: Infuse Health is still a Healing Prayers skill, Spirit Bond and Protective Spirit are still Protection Prayers skills. They are not Divine Favor skills. I don't see how Atrophy would allow for a "nice period of time for a spike" if those skills still work. --  (CoRrRan / talk) 23:06, 1 August 2007 (UTC)

Agreed, i does apear the most potent and likley part of this skill is messing up your target's energy management for a period of time. But as it stands, it's a very nice way to nail touchers with ease, something which no other skill can do so well since touching isn't an attack nor a spell and life-stealing isn't damage. --Ckal Ktak 15:42, 3 August 2007 (UTC)

I can't remember the last time i seen a toucher, do they exist anymore? I think touchers should be buffed really. i don't find them much of a threat.Materia user 20:26, 7 August 2009 (UTC)

The hex duration is too short to actually make good use of this skill and is only a minor hindrance to a few classes (elementalist, rangers, and possibly mesmers).Highway Man 02:35, 2 February 2008 (UTC)

Translation Suggestions

To avoid some bad skill translations i'm opening a comment for new skills so everybody can post their translation suggestions in various languages, have fun :) --YukoIshii 23:52, 1 August 2007 (UTC)

Italian: Atrofia --YukoIshii 23:52, 1 August 2007 (UTC)

French : Atrophie ^-^--Ttibot 17:24, 7 August 2007 (UTC)

Bulgarian : Атрофия (77.70.60.74 13:32, 8 June 2008 (UTC))

Spanish: Atrofia --79.146.19.184 16:48, 29 August 2009 (UTC)