Talk:Game updates/20080417

Note: As said on the update notes, this update is temporary and will be reverted on May 1st.

Gotta be something big if they made you shut the game off and not enter any pvp matches... I bet there was a skill exploit that was screwing up something bad.71.50.50.244 23:08, 17 April 2008 (UTC)

Huh? I'm still in the old build...I was in the middle of farming so I wanted to finish up my run. I'm not sure about the whole pvp match thing, but it didn't force me out of the game /confused -- Melliechick 23:14, 17 April 2008 (UTC)

Its thursday, there is always a skill update of some sort. --The preceding unsigned comment was added by User:67.71.53.48 (talk).

Wow

300+ files....5mb...its either a game fix, nerfing streak or something *eagerly waits*--Dominator Matrix 23:18, 17 April 2008 (UTC)

wth gief us teh fcking information! --Frozen Archer 23:19, 17 April 2008 (UTC)

5mb? I had like 1mb. --Hawk Skeer(Talk) 23:19, 17 April 2008 (UTC)

10 second dl for me. I hope it's not an ursan boot.- Vanguard 23:21, 17 April 2008 (UTC)

-image....Dominator Matrix 23:22, 17 April 2008 (UTC)

I did it with -image --Hawk Skeer(Talk) 23:29, 17 April 2008 (UTC)

buff ursan and ill maybe try it out --Frozen Archer 23:23, 17 April 2008 (UTC)

lets not have it say no notes

ugh that was annoying seeing that the game had been updated and for once that the wiki had the notes up right way.75.172.43.176 23:22, 17 April 2008 (UTC)

lol i hope its a complete skill rechange.i've quit guildwars untill they do.. Pvp is jut not fun anymore with all the over powered builds runnin around... and more. I unno i just think skills gotta be reset to change it^^--209.77.228.23 23:21, 17 April 2008 (UTC)

EVEN BIGGER UGH why is the page locked.? i whanted to add under wiki notes that the store icon was changed.75.172.43.176 23:24, 17 April 2008 (UTC)

1. Only Official update announcements are allowed 2. The page got vandalized massively within seconds of creation. --Hawk Skeer(Talk) 23:28, 17 April 2008 (UTC)

there has always been a spot for wiki notes l2p75.172.43.176 23:30, 17 April 2008 (UTC)

Vandalism

Why do these update notes get slammed with rapid vandalism just about always? --Hawk Skeer(Talk) 23:25, 17 April 2008 (UTC)

cuz its fun --Frozen Archer 23:26, 17 April 2008 (UTC)

Man, talk about Vandal superstrike--Raph Talky 23:29, 17 April 2008 (UTC)

Is it really necessary to protect the page from registered edits? -- Gordon Ecker 23:56, 17 April 2008 (UTC)

ATM yes Dominator Matrix 23:58, 17 April 2008 (UTC)

I was gonna ask on IRC, but was too lazy. IMO, no, it isn't. Calor 23:58, 17 April 2008 (UTC)

When you look at the previous edits, before it got protected, and when you look around, what's going on on RC, then: yes. poke | talk 00:00, 18 April 2008 (UTC)

Disarm

Apparently it took a hit. Anyone got details? --71.229.204.25 23:32, 17 April 2008 (UTC)

Hmmm so why don't we look for noticeable changes? *Heads to priest of balthazar* 65.34.193.183 23:33, 17 April 2008 (UTC)

Eburn.Esurge

EBurn and ESurge are not -9 per pt energy drained. However, @16 domination, they drain 11 energy... E-Denial has returned... LordSojar 23:34, 17 April 2008 (UTC)

Nerfs So Far (if anyone cares)

Splinter Weapon, Ancestor's Rage, Aegis, Glyph of Concentration, Lightning Orb (revert), Energy Burn (farther than revert), Energy Surge (farther than revert), Death Pact Signet, Flesh of my Flesh. Still glancing over skill lists. For the most part, I like the update from an HA / GvG perspective. But as far as I can tell, nothing was done for the arena weekend, and that disappoints me. Sun Fired Blank Adding: Mystic Sweep, Eremite's Attack. Sun Fired Blank

it would be just great if you could differentiate between nerfs, buffs and changes --The preceding unsigned comment was added by User:24.117.99.109 (talk).

Each change could be a nerf to one type of skill usage, while buffing it for others. That sais, this wouldn't be possible since every time a skill is changed, its a "change" that could be both a "nerf" and a "buff" --Angelic Loki 20:12, 18 April 2008 (UTC)

- Blinding Surge - nerfed duration to 4s at 12 attribute; reduced recharge to 3s

- Aegis - 15e now

- Song of Restoration + Ballad of Restoration; recharge increased to 30s, SoR Energy increased to 10e

- Lightning Orb - no longer causes cracked armor

- Energy Burn/Energy Surge - now 9 e-denial 14 spec, reduced damage per energy from 12 to 9

- Death Pact Signet - 4s cast time

- Flesh of My Flesh - 10s recharge added

- Eremite's Attack - 1s cast time

- Disarm - 20s recharge

- Shockwave - 1s cast time

- Splinter Weapon - 8s recharge

- Ancestor's Rage - 1s cast time

-Lutz 23:40, 17 April 2008 (UTC)

Mystic Sweep also at 1s cast time. Prokiller88 23:42, 17 April 2008 (UTC)

oh great... let me guess, Ursan remains untouched Cause A Little Mayhem 23:42, 17 April 2008 (UTC)

Sorry babe but E Burn & Surge actually got BUFFED, spend more time ig than wiki-ing kthks <3

Yea, if you ran them at 16 dom they did....

character selection screen.

It now shows one of a variety of invitations to the online store. in my main account, which has all chapters, it advertise char slots, and in my second, which is ch1 only, it advertise nightfall. Foo

update the wiki at the same time of the patch release.

is it realy that hard for them to get the notes up? they should be able to do it at the same time,cuz they already know what they are.75.172.43.176 23:37, 17 April 2008 (UTC)

No, we decide what will be changed!

But no, we wait as you do for the update notes. poke | talk 23:38, 17 April 2008 (UTC)

Because we get our notes [From this part of the official website], and if it's not updated, we don't know in ahead. We're not Arenanet, and we're not clairvoyant. --Chaiyo Kaldor talk contribs 23:39, 17 April 2008 (UTC)

that was my point that anet knows ahead of time75.172.43.176 23:40, 17 April 2008 (UTC)

wiki != anet. poke | talk 23:41, 17 April 2008 (UTC)

He's saying that Anet needs to post the notes as they publish the update (code). Its a criticism of them, which happens to be here. — THARKUN 23:43, 17 April 2008 (UTC)

exactly what i am saying. and last i checked there is a little logo at the bottom of this wiki that says anet. and that they were in control of this wiki.75.172.43.176 23:47, 17 April 2008 (UTC)

no theyre just like us they dont know what they added either they just randomly changed stuff gave us the build and now theyre checking what they changed Dark Templar 23:47, 17 April 2008 (UTC)

LOL, knowing anet thats probably the truth.75.172.43.176 23:51, 17 April 2008 (UTC)

You might want to look at Guild Wars Wiki:General disclaimer then, which is linked from the bottom of every wiki page. (Aiiane - talk - contribs) 01:38, 18 April 2008 (UTC)

they can still post them.75.172.43.176 09:08, 18 April 2008 (UTC)

GWW got the game updates up before guildwars.com did. I don't think you can ask for much more. --71.229.204.25 09:28, 18 April 2008 (UTC)

Anybody else having a problem with the update?

I, for an unknown reason, can not update guild wars. it says that "A serious error has occured that prevents the program from continuing to run"...--A N I M A T E D One 23:44, 17 April 2008 (UTC)

Just got on, game's running fine for me. Calor 23:44, 17 April 2008 (UTC)

free space? delete gw.tmp, restart? OS?! (search for Gw.tmp, or go to the GW folder)Dominator Matrix 23:45, 17 April 2008 (UTC)

Oh and support will help ya. Dominator Matrix 23:55, 17 April 2008 (UTC)

So it looks to be PvP Balance?

Is that what we're seeing? Cause A Little Mayhem 23:55, 17 April 2008 (UTC)

Ayup. Just when I started using Disarm, too. --71.229.204.25 23:56, 17 April 2008 (UTC)

Blind Was Mingson will likely be a tide changer in VoD, it's one of the few things left that can have a major impact on the npcs. Funny thing is Pure Was Li Ming wouldn't be able to used to counter it lol, but Kaolai is better overall to take anyways~>Sins WDB 00:22, 19 April 2008 (UTC)

Izzy Hates Death Pact

Though i don't know why, Izzy seems to have a personal vendetta against Death pact, it was once an ok skill in its prime, and now its been nerfed onto the streets. Help the poor skill Izzy, it needs your help. Pwncho 00:32, 18 April 2008 (UTC)

If you think he hates it, do you really want him to touch it more? Cause A Little Mayhem 00:03, 18 April 2008 (UTC)

Ahh they're screwing up the game -_- why not stop this crap and work on nerfing sway??? 65.34.193.183 00:09, 18 April 2008 (UTC)

or maybe something useful nerfing Ursan....Dominator Matrix 00:10, 18 April 2008 (UTC)

Yeah, would be nice... Cause A Little Mayhem 00:26, 18 April 2008 (UTC)

oh wait...NVM don't nerf ursan as well its done its damage, and you cant fix that Dominator Matrix 00:27, 18 April 2008 (UTC)

I made a skill in honour of Izzy just cos he loves PvE so much. Cause A Little Mayhem 00:34, 18 April 2008 (UTC)

SWAY is easy enough to counter, feel so sad for the r/d noobs in AB ;p --Shaia 07:37, 18 April 2008 (UTC)

4 second casting time does seem like quite a bit now. — ク Eloc 貢 19:34, 21 April 2008 (UTC)

hmm...

This update was rather....interesting, to say the least. Though I can agree with most of these changes, only 3 truly bug me. Ward against melee, for one. the decreased recharge time is going to probably kick this skill off of many a bar. Second one was Death Pact Signet. a 4 second casting time is pretty brutal, considering the consequences if you die. and then there is disarm....that took a major hit. can't seem to fathom a guess as to why though.....bleh. oh well, time to check out some new builds. -- Wandering Traveler 00:11, 18 April 2008 (UTC)

Chaos storm is IMBA. nerfnerfnerf. 76.90.73.121 00:17, 18 April 2008 (UTC)

But, is Chaos Storm used into PvP? If not, there's your answer... Cause A Little Mayhem 00:28, 18 April 2008 (UTC)

Disarm took a hit because the disable emptied all your adrenaline skills and it triggered on any attack, not just attack skills. And I still don't like you. --71.229.204.25 00:29, 18 April 2008 (UTC)

huh, well, thats something new learned today. and that doesnt concern me :P -- Wandering Traveler 00:30, 18 April 2008 (UTC)

That's a big nerf bat you have there!

I appreciate some of these nerfs. Although the GvG NPC's being un-affected by those skills doesn't make sense. Would make more sense to just make the NPCs easier to kill. Seems like a more direct way to deal with the problem =/ Also, if Ward against Melee gets hit one more time with that bat, I'm gonna seriously consider deleting my Ele and making a PvE derv instead. T_T Please, don't make me do it! --Srakin 01:24, 18 April 2008 (UTC)

The thing is, the problem was NPCs building up during VoD. Making them easier to kill would also make them easier to gank, which would affect more of the game than just VoD. By making spirits not affect them, it makes it so that they're not quite as much of a powerful influence during VoD, while still keeping their current level of effectiveness while still in the base. (Aiiane - talk - contribs) 01:36, 18 April 2008 (UTC)

Yea, Izzy has a good balance bat for sure.Prokiller88 02:36, 18 April 2008 (UTC)

I liked these updates, only things that were hit too hard IMO are Song and Ballad of Resto. 20 or 25 sec recharge seems more like it for those two. Other than them, Disarm and Distracting strike would be more on par with things like Distracting Blow or Disrupting Dagger if Dis strike had 12 s recharge and Disarm 15. But that's a minor issue, as well as having Melee wards duration lowered (the duration was fine with 30 s recharge) it really only needed the "doesn't affect NPC's" part. All in all I would personally like to see these changes stick after May 1st, sure SWAY still remains an issue, but frankly the main issue with HA was and I guess always will be the size of the maps which limit you to a more or less constant 8v8 (or 8v8v8) brawl without possibilites for some more tactical movements. To balance HA they should add more relic run type maps or something in that manner.78.3.217.200 20:50, 18 April 2008 (UTC)

Impressive that a single man not only makes me leave a game i played for years... but also helps me conclude that i probably dont want to bother with the companies next undertaking... Has happened with 2 games so far, CoH and GW... hopefully Champions and GW2 are better balanced to start because the endless nerfs get really tiring. Oh well, each update just re-confirms that it was a good move to move to wow until gw2/chmpions come and possibly after...-- (midnight08) 69.248.254.231 11:10, 19 April 2008 (UTC)

Fissure of Woe

there was a download, haven't noticed anything different though. 75.172.36.181 01:30, 18 April 2008 (UTC)

probabily a map fix or skill change somewhere..Dominator Matrix 01:31, 18 April 2008 (UTC)

Wouldn't that have been changed in the orignial download? 75.172.36.181

no but it was part of the other -image update...Dominator Matrix 02:37, 18 April 2008 (UTC)

Kyle van der Meer's notes

There is a side note at the bottom, says everything is due to be reverted May 1st, after the tournament or some such nonsense. that sure would be nice --Kyle van der Meer 03:33, 18 April 2008 (UTC)

I've got no problem with that. About time they decided to start announcing things like this and experimenting with changes. 2 weeks is all then it's back to normal and they see what changes would be worth keeping.~>Sins WDB 03:50, 18 April 2008 (UTC)

Well, that does explain the hit to the wards.... -- Wandering Traveler 04:12, 18 April 2008 (UTC)

Shadow stepping dervish spikes and Winvod Weapon are not "normal." ~Shard (talk) 09:38, 18 April 2008 (UTC)

Yet spikes which you can shutdown and splinter which you can divert/dshot are. (Not for bad teams maybe, but they just need to learn then.)91.154.2.191 14:24, 18 April 2008 (UTC)

Personally, I didn't like to see the nerf to Ancestor's Rage, it makes the possibility of using a quick rit spell go down the drain. Shadow stepping dervishes never really bugged me, as I had a pbaoe build with KD to start, and ancestor's Rage to finish, kept them from being any real threat to me, but that's just in low level's of pvp. Just noticed there isn't a lot of commenting here on that skill, so I thought I'd say something. I guess I can live without my rit for a couple of weeks, and pretty soon, everything will be as nerfed as the para, so it will actually be a class worth playing again :D lol (being sarcastic here cause that's fun) Anyhow, I don't know anywhere else to put this that 'might' actually get read, so I put it here. If any wiki people know a more suitable location, that isn't a side alley in a dumpster (because nobody looks there) I will stop haunting the wiki update notes talk page. There just isn't a single page to go to for talk about updates other than here.(at least that I've found) --Kyle van der Meer 15:15, 18 April 2008 (UTC)

Paragons > all. If you think otherwise, I don't even know what to say without breaking NPA (on this wiki saying things like "you fail," "your a noob," or even "your not very good" is considered breaking NPA). — Teh Uber Pwnzer 06:13, 19 April 2008 (UTC)

Hey, don't get me wrong, I love para's, I just think they were, at one point, quite heavily nerfed is all(doesn't mean they aren't still powerful), and looking at prehistoric update notes, I'm sure you could find this ;). Also, sticking things in quotes and saying... I'd be breaking NPA by saying these things is also skating on thin ice, tsk tsk tsk... --Kyle van der Meer 06:29, 19 April 2008 (UTC)

They were nerfed. Many times in fact. The nerfs happened for a good reason too. They still need more (permanent) nerfs even. See this, the most overpowered build in all of PvE. There's also various awesome PvP builds. — Teh Uber Pwnzer 06:38, 19 April 2008 (UTC)

Healer's Boon

Anyone know how this is working with patient spirit now? The healing bonus was working sometimes then not other times. ~>Sins WDB 04:48, 18 April 2008 (UTC)

Obligatory Ranting

Hi, I would just like to take the time to insult Izzy's intelligence yet again. I can count the good changes on a single hand in this update, as usual. I find it remarkable that after all of the advice good players would be willing to give him, he still continues to blunder about, hitting random skills simply because they are good, without ever realizing why they are good. That, combined with the unneeded or ineffective nerfs raises questions that have been asked countless times. This is not only directed at this nerf, it is a compilation of frustrations from the countless previous mistakes in balance. The difference is that I now have a different perspective, as I have been playing Brawl since release instead of Guild Wars, and I realized that GW is actually not fun anymore. I know many other players share these sentiments, so I will offer this as advice rather than admonishment to Arena Net: Guild Wars is a game first and a competition second. Don't take that to mean PvE over PvP, I am a PvPer and understand the need for balance. However, do not sacrafice fun in favor of "balance," espeically if the "balancing" does not fix the problems, or creates even more new problems. Design skills to be fun to use, and balance the numbers around the mechanics. Do not balance in a way that intentionally limits build choices in competitive level PvP. It can certainly be done, as GW was, at one point, a fun game, if not totally balanced, and needs to be done again. If not, you are going to lose many more dedicated players, and, more importantly economically, potential players of Guild Wars 2. If the balance and fun in that game is botched as incompetently as GW balance, sales will reflect it. That is all. 71.31.149.63 08:17, 18 April 2008 (UTC)

Just no. It's called TOURNAMENT FUCKING BALANCE you fool. They are needed, they are effective and you are stupid. These sort of changes are needed, it's called a skills overhaul GW has been in dying need of. Too bad it wasn't a change to over 1000 skills. 80.193.1.106 21:25, 28 April 2008 (UTC)

Obigitory counter rant.... All these changes were deserved, SinScythe spike was stupid for a start. --Ckal Ktak 08:21, 18 April 2008 (UTC)

The ironic thing about this update is that it's the only one in over a year that has actually addressed pvp problems, yet they have already decided it will be reverted. It's like they don't even want their game to be good. In any case, you're right. Izzy doesn't know why skills are good or why people use them, and that's a big problem. ~Shard (talk) 09:39, 18 April 2008 (UTC)

I always wonder why people that play other games or hate this game even bother by posting this bullshit. No-one cares, and you shouldn't care either. Go apply for a programmer's job if you think you can do better. BlazeRick 10:07, 18 April 2008 (UTC)

QQ --Cursed Angel 10:08, 18 April 2008 (UTC)

Agreed on fact that this update is big fkin fail. 91.154.2.191 10:17, 18 April 2008 (UTC)

He'll never do a good job, there'll always be the PvE/PvP arguements, Pve's will think they're been short changed by PvP updates, PvPers will continue to bitch that PvP is the shit and he needs to do this this and this... why nerf this? why buff this? what are you smoking. Skill Balance in Guild Wars = joke. I mean, they can't even balance skills that exist in one part of the game, what makes you think they can balance two sides of a game Cause A Little Mayhem 11:18, 18 April 2008 (UTC)

They can always make 2 functionalities per skill, 1 for pve and 1 for pvp. When you r in a pve area the skills will take the functionality of pve, and when you are in a pvp outpost, the skills will change to pvp functionality. That would solve the everlasting battle between pvp and pve skill balancing :P --MageMontu 14:19, 18 April 2008 (UTC)

Thats already been suggested and Anet has stated that it would be very difficult if not impossible to implicate that using the current engine.--70.161.30.250 18:41, 18 April 2008 (UTC)

that its difficult and time consuming I understand and agree, but that it's impossible, i think it's unlikely since the engine already can do something similar. I'm talking about the pve only skills and pvp outposts. --MageMontu 19:09, 18 April 2008 (UTC)

@BlazeRick-I DID play this game, very regularly, until a short time ago, and I continue to play it, although only if requested by friends. And I WILL apply for a programmer's job, as soon as I finish a CS degree, although likely not to ANet :\ 71.31.149.63 19:16, 18 April 2008 (UTC)

They could program the skills to have dual functionality (to say they couldn't is unrealistic), it should have really have been done in the first place, but not only would it require new lines of code to be written but it would also mean that someone would have to keep an eye on PvE. Izzy clearly doesn't keep an eye on PvE, he is watching PvP and if anyone says otherwise they are kidding themselves. Most skill updates are related to PvP. And if you think Anet is watching PvE very closely then you've got to wonder why it takes them ages to do any PvE only skill balances. Anet only watches PvE for gold sellers, people exploiting silly like festival quests and other unimportant nonsense. Izzy should just stick to watching PvP and nominate someone to watch PvE as they're totally different areas of the game. Cause A Little Mayhem 21:50, 18 April 2008 (UTC)

Anet is right about this one - they can't make skills do different things based on the map. The obvious solution: change your build to suit what u need. ~Shard (talk) 23:05, 18 April 2008 (UTC)

Aside from a FEW useless skill balances, i count 20+ that are good for the game, stop complaining about that which does not suck. I am surprised they are gonna be reverting some of this.--Thelordofblah 23:14, 18 April 2008 (UTC)

No no no, i don't mean they will have 2 completely different functionalities, what i'm saying is make 2 copies of the skills, the first 1 should be, revert the skills to their original form which will be used for pve and the other will be the nerved/buffed/whatever version which will be used for pvp. --MageMontu 16:50, 19 April 2008 (UTC)

Yeah, I know what you mean, but it would require a new system of skills written for PvE, a way of register unlocked skills on both tracks, and a system to allow a PvE born character to be able to use PvP areas and skills. It would be possible, PvE only skills show that they've done something similar, but they don't want to do it for all of them. For GW2, they're keeping the same system but trying to force PvP and PvE more closer together. Cause A Little Mayhem 20:54, 19 April 2008 (UTC)

The rebalancing would likely be harder than the code. They could just have a system to change the skills on your bar when you travel between PvE and PvP(special arenas can do this, so changing between two skill sets with identical names wouldn't be too hard), or they could have checks for game type within each skill(probably less efficient). All of this would be using code already used in the game, so no huge re-design would be needed, just a few extra additions. 71.31.149.63 19:32, 21 April 2008 (UTC)

Not an expert, yet it may be possible, the draw back comes to Anet and if they want to work it out - ie program it. We can come up with ideas and suggestions about what may work until the cows come home, yet its up to Anet to see the merit and code it. Cause A Little Mayhem 23:20, 21 April 2008 (UTC)

Yeah...This would probably end up helping them out in the long run though, once the system is in, they can balance all they want for PvE or PvP and not screw up the other area and have to deal with complaints from PvEers about their balance being screwed up because of PvP. Not like they have shown too much skill at balancing, but this way, their mistakes would only effect half the game, instead of all of it :\ So not a total solution, but having only half as many people complaining would be a start. 71.31.149.63 00:22, 22 April 2008 (UTC)

I don't see why they didn't do it in the first place. Cause A Little Mayhem 01:20, 24 April 2008 (UTC)

Eve of the Anniversery...

What I find interesting about all these changes, is that ANET attack the META of Balanced teams waiting for VoD and being able to passive heal/prot NPC's and purposely sated, that these changes will be reverted post tourney... so now the top teams have to come out and fight a little harder then they used too... all the top teams do this passive prot tactic... I find it rather boring... so I would like to see how they react to this slight nerf of this tactic. Also, this comes onto the door step of the 3rd Anniversery of Guild Wars... which the prizes are worth more then they have ever been... $1,000 to each team member. So not only does this cause the top teams to change their tactics, this will cause them to fight harder then before. I am looking foward to a great GvG playoff this month. And if I had anything to watch for... look for a unlimited energy Mesmer with FC Dom E-Denial... SabreWolf 18:27, 18 April 2008 (UTC)

Bet rawr ignores all the nerfs to take gold. Lord of all tyria 18:38, 18 April 2008 (UTC)

I dought it... this skill update completely nerfs their tactic of passive NPC shielding during VoD, and thats one thing they do best... so they will be forced to try somthing else... #1 ranks [uF] suffered losses in today's matches as well with there balenced team and poor chioces of spilts to block. You are going to see a lot of ganking and splits in this month's GvG tourney... depending on the map rotation... I have a feeling, the final will be an old skool map... SabreWolf 04:50, 19 April 2008 (UTC)

no u --Frozen Archer 10:22, 22 April 2008 (UTC)

Revert

For those that didn't notice, this is due to revert at May 1st... "# This update is intended to address the most pressing issues with GvG for the upcoming tournament at the end of April. The skill changes are due to be reverted on May 1st." These changes won't be permanent so don't go hating on Izzy about it.--Link4all 19:25, 18 April 2008 (UTC)

That is already in the notes section but I doubt that will stop the complaints on his page. -- Broodling 20:15, 18 April 2008 (UTC)

Its a pity that these are getting reverted, for the most part. Lord of all tyria 20:16, 18 April 2008 (UTC)

Some of em should probably be reverted back, but i agree with Lord of all Tyria, some of em dont need to be reverted, but oh well. Stop whining and flaming Izzy you pvp nubs!!--Raph Talky 20:48, 18 April 2008 (UTC)

With the meta as backed into a corner as it is, I say just keep swinging the nerf bat, eventually it'll hit something... not like the balancing would be that much worse. Mcsneaksneak 21:40, 18 April 2008 (UTC)

The only ones without much need of a nerf imo are shockwave, lightning orb, and death pact...wellll....it had that nerf coming...but for the sake of all the Izyy-haters......really, it didnt need it.--Raph Talky 18:32, 20 April 2008 (UTC)

QQ --Frozen Archer 10:19, 22 April 2008 (UTC)

Warrior Wars

Blarg, I hate seeing nerfs being made to so many things but two basically GvG staples always remain left. Eviscerate and Executioner's Strike... Until these skills are changed or the melee damage from just swinging a weapon about is reduced then GvG teams are never going to revert away from a one or two warrior frontline using that axe build 81.152.99.206 20:34, 18 April 2008 (UTC) Mvtaylor

Probably because evis+exec are baseline skills, stuff is balanced around them. Lord of all tyria 20:39, 18 April 2008 (UTC)

Because warriors have been the most balanced class in this game. Evis is awesome, yet it is the standard, not OP. --70.55.108.171 04:27, 19 April 2008 (UTC)

Pretty much. The problem isn't warriors; it's the dervishes and paragons on top of the already existing warriors that are the problem. The spikey derv builds have been temporarily nerfed, but the activation time wasn't the problem; it's scythes doing 150 damage crits and having super easily applied deep wound. Warriors never had the convenience of applying it every 5 or 6 seconds like Dervs do. -Auron 04:32, 19 April 2008 (UTC)

Scythes can't do 150 damage crits, don't over exaggerate stuff. Prokiller88 14:36, 19 April 2008 (UTC)

Over 57 damage to 3 targets = 171 damage. Without any attack skill. --Srakin 15:56, 19 April 2008 (UTC)

That's without any mods either.--Srakin 15:59, 19 April 2008 (UTC)

LOL — Skakid 15:57, 19 April 2008 (UTC)

You know there is a problem when a character can shadowstep and spike for 300 in 1.5 seconds... --70.55.108.171 16:45, 19 April 2008 (UTC)

Thats if they're lucky, but then again I don't PvP much. Only time I do is AB, I tend to let HoHF get to 1-2 sec left (with another enchant on), shadowstep, and wounding strike whoever's in scythe range. Deep wound, plus bleeding and burning = fun. Cause A Little Mayhem 01:36, 20 April 2008 (UTC)

I honestly think that, to a large degree, NF broke PvP. Almost every complaint I see is about dervishes and paragons. It's a shame, too, because those two classes have some very imaginative choices available to them. KrelusDerian 04:23, 20 April 2008 (UTC)

I love Dervish, imbues everything I like in a profession, the whole 'holy warrior' style thing. Yet, every profession has a counter. Cause A Little Mayhem 12:48, 21 April 2008 (UTC)

any more the eviscerate executioners strike spike dont work that much but its fairly effective. very weak against any type of anti-melee and shock is a costly interrupt skill. 71.31.149.63 19:38, 21 April 2008 (UTC)

Actually yes, scythes CAN do 150 damage crits. (It's with Sundering 20% mod, which yes is very useful with scythe.) And reason why derv primary spikes aren't so used it propably because you can get it "better" with A/D... Scythes are imbalanced. 91.152.182.99 18:22, 23 April 2008 (UTC)

Anybody else not able to see what spirits are affecting you?

just noticed it tonight, but i haven't been on any teams where spirits are affecting me... i can't see ranger spirits or allied spirits.71.50.50.244 07:46, 19 April 2008 (UTC)

no u! --Frozen Archer 10:18, 22 April 2008 (UTC)

I've been seeing muddy terrain and favorable winds just fine.... -- Wandering Traveler 19:39, 23 April 2008 (UTC)

Make a lot of these changes permanent

The changes are definitely gud stuffs. 80.193.1.106 21:22, 28 April 2008 (UTC)