Talk:Hard mode/Archive

When?

I thought the announcement was supposed to be today? Vladtheemailer 21:07, 19 March 2007 (EDT)

I'm not sure where the Tuesday announcement came from (Gaile indeed said Monday.) It might be nice if we had a date instead of a day of the week, since not everyone will check the history (so after today, this post will be quite confusing.)- Katscratched 18:40, 20 March 2007 (EDT)

It was postponed a day. Posts went up in (some) forums about the delay. --Rainith 18:47, 20 March 2007 (EDT)

I'm making the assumption that Gordon Ecker wrote most of the article on Guildwiki also, is this a correct assumption? If it is not, one of the sites is copying this information from the other. --User:AlbinobirdAlbinobird 01:11, 21 March 2007 (EDT)

Yeah, I copied the text from my edit here onto the Guildwiki article. -- Gordon Ecker 01:14, 21 March 2007 (EDT)

Alright that makes sense then, since you are in the edit list the most. Just making sure. --User:AlbinobirdAlbinobird 01:21, 21 March 2007 (EDT)

How?

Do we know how this will work? Will it be an option you choose from the F11 menu, or a different district so that it makes it easier for people to find each other, or will it be a different option from the "Enter Mission" button in Ascalon/Factions and a different option from the Nightfall Mission giver? I have many virtues, unfortunatly patience is not one of mine. 80.254.147.68 15:39, 28 March 2007 (EDT)

No, we don't, although I doubt it'll be an F11 option or a different enter mission option - it affects all of the game worlds, including explorable areas and (theoretically) towns and outposts. Different district is more likely, saves "hard moders" from teaming up with "easy moders" ("noob moders" as a reference to be made in the future?) who weren't expecting level 24s as the norm instead of 20s. Armond 23:15, 28 March 2007 (EDT)

They metioned that this will be an option... i'm guessing 2 things, either you create a new charchter from scratch or maybe once you beat all the missions in a campain you can transfer your charchter over to hard mode. If its createing a new charchter it will most likly be in the same spot as the roleplaying charchter or pvp charchter section of the creation process. --The preceding unsigned comment was added by User:66.225.141.109 .

Toned Down Enemies

Hope "normal" enemies aren't toned down to the point where "hard" enemies are basically the old stats of "normal" enemies. Deja vu for getting hard mode mission completion if that happens. File:Esig2.jpg Eldin 15:29, 28 March 2007 (EDT)

Doubtful. Though perhaps they'll give this spoiler guy some tactics ranks (he has 0 right now). However, I wouldn't be too surprised if normal mode monsters are tuned down two levels, at least until the main islands/the desert. Armond 23:15, 28 March 2007 (EDT)

Why would they tone down the normal zones at all? Everything I've heard tends to sound more like the are ADDING a new difficulty, not revamping the current one. -- Saranis 11:04, 29 March 2007 (EDT)

Dunno, but that's what they said they're doing. Armond 14:31, 29 March 2007 (EDT)

Keep in mind that, in Gaile's announcement, the words were "the ability to rebalance several things in Normal Mode that players have found too challenging or unpleasant" and "creature distribution in particularly difficult areas" - in other words, I would expect changes to DoA and RoT, not to Pre Searing Ascalon or the Crystal Desert. Erasculio 14:36, 29 March 2007 (EDT)

Personally I find few things in the missions to be too difficult. At least, whenever there is something difficult, the team's failure is on the players' faults, through poorly-coordinated PuGs (and by poorly-coordinated I mean almost all PuGs) and leavers. But you're looking at a guy who beat Prophecies on two characters primarily with PuGs, and, after much frusturation, found it much easier to hench most of the campaign on his third character. File:Esig2.jpg Eldin 10:49, 1 April 2007 (EDT)

I agree that henching is much more reliable than pugging, but there are a few areas/missions that I dislike, playing a new character to there and going "oh no, not this one again" is not a good game experience. Many of them are not that bad when you come back to them or are an experienced player but the first time you play some of them can be a bit off-putting, and first impressions last. Most games have a difficulty setting for new (or bad) players. --Heurist 01:07, 4 April 2007 (EDT)

(reseting indent):They are using this opertunnity to tone down certain areas of the game in normel mode where people find it to difficult to quickly. These areas would be zen daijun mission they metioned that they will be toning down things like the afflicted soul explosion and probly this spoiler afflicted boss. That and they might tone down the levels of say the amh fan and jade brotherhood on the local side of the kaineing city area... thats a diffulculty spike of too much -- --The preceding unsigned comment was added by User:66.225.141.109 .

Afflicted on shing jea now have elites... Toned *down* or *up*? Armond 09:59, 19 April 2007 (EDT)

Lock Picks

Though its probably too early to say for sure, but my understanding of the articles I read were that the lock picks were going to be used for ONLY the hard mode chests. umph

I got that impression too, but the official statement's ambiguous. -- Gordon Ecker 23:36, 3 April 2007 (EDT)

That is deffinitly what the PC Gamer magazine said. It is supposed to be one of those hard mode perks. I'm guessing by that, they will try to make HUGE insentives to play. --The preceding unsigned comment was added by User:66.225.141.109 .

Apparently there is also a chance that a lock pick will not break when you use it. Treasure hunt swarms, anyone?--Omigawa 20:24, 12 April 2007 (EDT)

Access

I added a section on access to HM, which was confirmed a few minutes ago by Gaile Gray ~ Buttermilk 15:38, 14 April 2007 (EDT)

Aah, Guru had me believing that it was ascend + game for each character. Kind of a shame, since now the not-great people in Hell's PUGs can get into hard mode on any of their level 20s. Armond 01:29, 17 April 2007 (EDT)

Same. I'm happy this is how it turned out to be. But I finished the Prophecies campaign just to be sure :) ~ Buttermilk 09:05, 17 April 2007 (EDT)

this week i guess

This is posted on Gw.com "This weekend you will receive double Sunspear and Lightbringer points in both Hard mode and regular gameplay." accidental give away? --Lemming64 19:41, 17 April 2007 (EDT)

Thats what it sounds like to me

I think they are just trying to get us to clear our scheadules so we binge to finish prophecies in HM

*Man who puts things on log on screen* "Yep Done. I mentioned about it being in hard mode too." *Gaile* "What! You Fool, there not supposed to know. Oh well, just aslong as we don't milk it anymore, nobody will notice..." Yeah I think it will be out this week --Andyana 10:20, 18 April 2007 (EDT)

Release

I put presumably Friday because on the event this weekend, it says that you can do w/e it is in Normal and Hard mode.--Eloc 23:00, 18 April 2007 (EDT)

But, but... I want it now... =( Biz

You may get it "now" since Anet has been updating the game on Thursdays but won't go live til Friday:P The bulk of the updates may come late Thursday night or early Friday but waiting isn't a problem.--Bane of Worlds (talk • contribs) 10:10, 19 April 2007 (EDT)

It is unclear whether it's just a "beta testing weekend" for Hard Mode, or if it's gonna stay though. -User:PanSola (talk to the File:Follower of Lyssa.png) 10:40, 19 April 2007 (EDT)

Hard Mode ftl, I have yet to complete the protector title. 86.83.15.245 11:33, 19 April 2007 (EDT)

I'm pretty sure this stays. They would've told us if it was just a test. Man I can't wait to get a hold of the elite tomes. I have always wanted the ability to get my unlocked elites for characters without replaying the game! =) I love you Anet! Giangn626 17:27, 19 April 2007 (EDT)

There's rumor here and [here about it being out shortly. Armond 17:54, 19 April 2007 (EDT)

"Within a matter of hours"...

From the official website :

"Within a matter of hours, Guild Wars players will be able to participate in a whole new challenge: Guild Wars in Hard mode! We thought you'd enjoy a little preview of this exciting update, so check out the Hard Mode Fact Sheet for a sampling of some of the many cool new elements that this update will add to the game."
http://www.guildwars.com/gameplay/hardmode/
(Meliana / talk) 22:08 April 19 2007

Aaargh! Transcribe it, someone - I'm stuck behind some VERY restrictive internet filters here! --Snograt 18:14, 19 April 2007 (EDT)

 
Guild Wars Hard Mode Fact Sheet 

For veteran adventurers seeking new challenges and rewards, Hard mode is sure to provide all of the 
glory you seek, and more! 

Hard mode will become available to any player who completes a campaign in the standard mode. Once you 
complete a campaign with one character, any other level 20 characters on that account will also gain 
access to that campaign's Hard mode. (Ascension is not required for these characters.) 

Adjusted Difficulty Levels 

Hard mode is not for the faint of heart. We've made adjustments to provide you with heartier henchmen 
and followers (for example, lower level henchmen will become level 20 upon entering a Hard mode 
area), but the levels of all of your foes, as well as their AI, have been enhanced. The monsters are 
not only harder to kill, they fight smarter than ever. So, your success in Hard mode will be 
determined, more than anything else, by your skill at playing the game. 

For those of you who may just now be getting your footing in Guild Wars, have no fear. We've also 
adjusted the difficulty of the regular game as well, providing a somewhat easier play experience 
during your early adventures, and saving the more difficult challenges and greater rewards for later, 
after you've become more battle-hardened. 

Once you feel up to the challenge of Hard mode, though, here is a sample of what's in store for you: 

Increased Title Ranks 

   * Advance your rank as a Sunspear, gaining powerful new skills tailored to your profession 
along the way. 
   * Increase your might against the minions of Abaddon by progressing through the ranks of the 
Lightbringer title track. 

New Titles 

   * Earn your place as a Guardian of Tyria, Cantha, or Elona by completing all of a campaign's 
missions in Hard mode. 
   * Defeat all of the foes in each explorable area to attain the status of a Vanquisher, and track 
your progress on the World Map. 

Increased Rewards 

Greater challenges mean greater rewards. 

   * You will find a larger number of both rare and uncommon items in your Hard mode adventures. 
   * You will also acquire more experience points, and even more gold! 

New Items 

Testing your mettle in Hard mode will also give you the opportunity to find exciting new items. 

Elite Tome Double-click on the Elite Tome while in a town or outpost to learn any elite 
profession skill already unlocked on your account. 

Non-Elite Tome Double-click on the Non-Elite Tome while in a town or outpost to learn any non-elite 
profession skill already unlocked on your account. 
Passage Scroll Double-click this Passage Scroll to teleport your party to the Underworld. This item 
can only be used in the Temple of the Ages, Zin Ku Corridor, or Chantry of Secrets. 
Passage Scroll Double-click this Passage Scroll to teleport your party to the Fissure of Woe. This 
item can only be used in the Temple of the Ages, Zin Ku Corridor, or Chantry of Secrets. 

Lockpicking 
Lockpick 

Opening locked chests in Hard mode can be done using lockpicks. Why carry a dozen different keys when 
a lockpick can do the trick? Lockpicks aren't perfect, though; they may break. However, the ranks you 
earn in the Treasure Hunter and Lucky title tracks will increase both the chance that the lockpick 
will work, and that it will remain intact after each use.

Thank you, BlastedT and Aspectacle :)--Snograt 19:06, 19 April 2007 (EDT)

EVERYONE TO GREAT WALL INTERNATIONAL

To celebrate!! BLASTEDT 18:27, 19 April 2007 (EDT)

meh, nevermind BLASTEDT 18:28, 19 April 2007 (EDT)

It didn't happen yet? --Snograt 18:31, 19 April 2007 (EDT)

Tomes

I for one am very excited by these. Obviously, until it happens, anything I say is purely conjecture, BUT: - how will this affect individual Skill Hunter titles? I have all skills unlocked on my accounts, but not on any one character. I'd hate to click this Tome with my Ranger, only to find that her 150-odd skills to date will count for nothing. The non-elite version is fantastic! --Snograt 19:47, 19 April 2007 (EDT)

There are quite a few details which can only be determined once someone actually gets to use one. It could be that if you cap a skill in hard mode they drop for you as reward for "doing it the hard way"? That way they help you get to your title by rewarding the extra effort in hardmode. I don't think that would be a bad thing. But they sure sound like an interesting idea. :) --Aspectacle 20:00, 19 April 2007 (EDT)

Gaile Gray: One last answer: Elite skills from tomes WILL boost your Skill Hunter title, yes 

I hope that's not as easy as it sounds. You see, I bought the PvP unlock packs for both my accounts (purely so my heroes would own - I don't do teh PvP ^^) - but I've been grinding like heck to capture all the Elites on my Ranger, Surely it's not going to be as simple as clicking on a book to cap the remaining 100-odd? Ah well, we shall see :) --Snograt 20:20, 19 April 2007 (EDT)

My reading on this tome thing is that each tome lets you "cap" one elite skill already unlocked. Since there's no indication you can buy these tomes it still shouldn't be too easy to get them all. HeWhoIsPale 20:30, 19 April 2007 (EDT)

I suspect they'll only drop from hard mode bosses. If every boss drops one elite skill tome, that would average out to 1 tome per character per 4 to 8 boss kills depending on party size, which would make capping elites in normal mode easier than farming elite tomes in hard mode. Of course this is just speculation. -- Gordon Ecker 20:33, 19 April 2007 (EDT)

Yes I have to agree, whilst this sounds super duper easy for skill hunter, I expect that tome's will be quite rare and possibly valuable, as a result you will probably find people just using them for the harder elites out there to capture, like Feast of Corruption --Lemming64 20:44, 19 April 2007 (EDT)

Lol! I went out and capped that very skill yesterday to get it out of the way :D --Snograt 20:48, 19 April 2007 (EDT)

Also, the skill tome icons on the website have the Dervish profession icon on them, and the description on the website almost says they're profession-specific. -- Gordon Ecker 21:21, 19 April 2007 (EDT)

Tomes only work on unlocked skills, which means that you have to do the initial work of capping the elite by yourself. Which is great - except I still think these should be account-based. Oh well... Alaris 21:31, 19 April 2007 (EDT)

O_o I think you're right about the profession specific tomes. It's so obvious now you've pointed it out. --Aspectacle 21:33, 19 April 2007 (EDT)

You can unlock skills with Balthazar faction too. --Lemming64 21:38, 19 April 2007 (EDT)

Woot!

Wow, Emily! Wow. :D --Aspectacle 21:40, 19 April 2007 (EDT) stop ruining this website omg............

wo...

nice emily :D --Lemming64 21:40, 19 April 2007 (EDT)

/happydance :D --Snograt 21:45, 19 April 2007 (EDT)

...--The preceding unsigned comment was added by User:66.212.165.74 .hehe

Splitting information

So I love this updated page but I think that we should move this page towards a hub of information for hard mode and move the details of the implementation into sub-pages so it reads a little less like the update notes. Is this ok? --Aspectacle 23:25, 19 April 2007 (EDT)

Henchmen

Unfortunately Odurra, Gehraz and the Nightfall version of Aidan still lack elites. -- Gordon Ecker 03:12, 20 April 2007 (EDT)

I just tested several of the Shing Jea Island henchmen and they don't have elites either. I suspect that the hard mode henchmen have the same skillsets as their normal mode equivalent. -- Gordon Ecker 04:02, 20 April 2007 (EDT)

It was suggested at some point by Gaile (GWG post I think) which said they were going to get elites. I guess that was a little bit of misinformation --Aspectacle 09:52, 20 April 2007 (EDT)

Probably more of an oversight. Regular mobs in Ascalon now use elites, but bosses are still on their old skill bar. Hopefully bosses and henchies will both be updated soon. -User:PanSola (talk to the File:Follower of Lyssa.png) 10:03, 20 April 2007 (EDT)

I assume that not every mod or hench needed an upgrade aside from increased levels and associated bonuses, so this may stay as is. On a related note, do all elites have visible effects? What if they don't always choose to use it? That is, can we always tell that they have an elite if they do have one? Alaris 10:34, 20 April 2007 (EDT)

It's relatively easy to click on a character and watch his skills warmup. Just have the heroes and henchies do the battling for you for a few minutes. Armond 15:56, 20 April 2007 (EDT)

Doing the Gates of Kryta mission in HM, I noticed that the hench leveles were raised to 20 when I started the mission, despite being listed as lvl10 at the outpost - should this be mentioned in the article, or was it some sort of bug?--Son of Batman 12:29, 28 April 2008 (UTC)

It's a feature common to all HM, all henchs become level 20 in the area regardless of their level in the outpost. It doesn't need to be mentioned in the article. -- Alaris 15:12, 28 April 2008 (UTC)

If you're referring to this article rather than the Gates of Kryta article, it's already here in the accessing hard mode section. -- Gordon Ecker 00:47, 29 April 2008 (UTC)

Missions

I may have missed a discussion elsewhere, so please slap me down and point me in the right direction if I have... My question is, how are we planning, and in what format etc, to put the hard mode info into the mission articles? Fox (talk|contribs) 04:56, 20 April 2007 (EDT)

Guild Wars Wiki talk:Formatting/Missions#Hard Mode. :)--Dirigible 05:14, 20 April 2007 (EDT)

Thanks D - it's a full-time commitment in itself just keeping up with the discussions :S Fox (talk|contribs) 05:54, 20 April 2007 (EDT)

Guide

I'd like to see a general guide on Hard Mode. I am not an adept of elite areas, so I think more elite players would be able to write that guide. I expect that some strategies will no longer work, and others will become more popular. For example, I noticed that my minion master kept dying, so it was difficult to get a good number of minions to protect my group. General spike strategies would normally work better than AoE, shutdowns tend to work better in endgame areas (is that true of hard more as well?), and targetting the monks first becomes important. Healing recommendations would be great to add as well. Alaris 10:29, 20 April 2007 (EDT)

I've noticed that my mesmer seems to become more effective with my typical skill bar of Echo, Empathy, Backfire, Spirit of Failure, and misc skills. The increased attack/cast rate of mobs make them die much faster (-: I'm definitely not gonna leave home without a SS necro for additional fun! Also, Winter is quite important in countering the Mursat Elementalists. Toss in Mantra of Frost for additional damage reduction. -User:PanSola (talk to the File:Follower of Lyssa.png) 10:39, 20 April 2007 (EDT)

Tanks still work wonders. Defy Pain and Endure Pain are incredibly useful. I wouldn't be too surprised if the AI started scattering from certain spells just because they did AoE damage and they didn't want to stay in the way, so spike is likely stronger than nuke. (If I'm right, Invoke Lightning could cause problems, fun as it is...) Barrage/Pet might be able to work in most hard mode areas. The MM I had for great northern wall was doing fine, btw - he was using Flesh Golem and the tank was, well, tanking. I think the enemies were focused at least partially on the tank and let maybe half their number switch to the minions. I'm predicting an overall increase in the use of water magic for AoE snares, too. Killing monks first has always been, and will always be, the most important strategy you're going to get in difficult areas (you can get away with ignoring it in normal mode in, say, Turai's Procession, but definitely not the later areas of the games (Ring of Fire, Raisu, and Desolation+), and you're definitely not going to be able to ignore it in hard mode). Armond 15:56, 20 April 2007 (EDT)

If enough enemies start using rezzes, it might be worthwhile taking down other targets first instead (say, if the enemy mesmers are posing a big problem). That's one disappointment I have with hard mode: most enemies still don't bring rez. -User:PanSola (talk to the File:Follower of Lyssa.png) 21:25, 20 April 2007 (EDT)

I kinda don't want it to be like PvP where everyone has a res, except in places like the desert missions where they're special because they resemble PvP. But I don't really want that to be the norm - maybe a random one in two or one in four of the enemies carry a res? Armond 02:56, 21 April 2007 (EDT)

So far I have not noticed a lot that is different from HM to "normal" hard missions. Maybe a small note about the faster attack rate, but apart from that it is standard PvE playing. The reason lots of people might notice a difference is because in normal mode, you dont get punished for bringing really stupid builds, but they are not good in normal mode either, its just that they still survive.

What we should think about is a series of guides on good tanking, PvE monking, Nuking, target calling&selection, running away, basically the whole "stop being a PvE noob" package. --Xeeron 07:20, 21 April 2007 (EDT)

That sounds like an idea. Though perhaps instead of a nuking guide, we should just have a Hard Mode PvE Elementalist guide, as I've heard that (like DoA) Spiking > Nuking in Hard Mode. I also think we should have an MM guide (not like the general minion mastery guide) specifically to teach people to make tanks. A lot of tanks. Ten undead tanks plus the human tank really saved our butts on Great Northern Wall.

What components would there be? There's the "holy trinity" of monk, tank, and nuker. There's the MM guide as I mentioned. Maybe something similar to the effective profession guides from guildwiki? An interrupter guide would probably also be nice. Armond 16:02, 21 April 2007 (EDT)

General guides (with some common examples as a bonus) would be nice. I've had more success lately with my usual group, which is in PvE all henchs and heros, 1 MM, 1 ranger (broad head arrow + interrupts), 2 monks, and the rest ranged/casters as well. Having no melee means that all melee-preventions are wasted on us, which is nice, and it helps against over-aggroing. How difficult are hard-mode end-game areas compared to normal end-game areas? I've been doing the Sulfurous Wastes in hard mode with that, some deaths occur, but otherwise feasible. Alaris 22:16, 21 April 2007 (EDT)

I reverted your last edit Alaris, for two reasons:

1. The strategy section, if helpful, should be much long than can be maintained in this article. Meaning we should create separate pages for the strategy guides and link them from here.
2. Most of your tips were related to general PvE, not hard mode in special. While we need general PvE guides just as much, the HM guide should concentrate on what is different in HM compared to normal mode.

As a suggestion, you could start a page like Hard mode strategies. --Xeeron 12:38, 24 April 2007 (EDT)

Good idea. I added a Hard mode strategy guide link, with what I had here. I hope to grow it over the next few days, as others and I gain experience with the differences with normal mode. Alaris 12:57, 24 April 2007 (EDT)

Normal vs HM mission completion and Rewards

So if you complete a HM mission and haven't completed the normal version of the mission will it be completed in both versions? If so, will you receive the experience/gold/skill points from both versions or just the HM reward? I would assume it only finishes it in HM though and that normal mode would need to be completed as well...? --File:VallenIconwhitesmall.JPG Vallen Frostweaver 10:38, 20 April 2007 (EDT)

When my ele gets to level 20 and leaves pre, I'll test this out. I wanted to do the entire game on Hard Mode with him anyway (not touching normal until I'm done with hard :D). Armond 15:56, 20 April 2007 (EDT)

It counts for hard mode/Guardian only. You have to do it over in normal for those XP/skill point/gold rewards and Protector (and by extension Legendary Guardian). --Valshia 17:40, 24 May 2007 (UTC)

But say if i completed a mission in HM and not NM, could i carry on with the storyline? -90.240.129.164 01:54, 8 December 2007 (UTC)

Ya. Calor — talk 02:10, 8 December 2007 (UTC)

Skill hunter split

I noticed that the skill hunter page needs to be updated, as it still reflects the old scheme. I made a note there too, but figured some people might not be watching it. There are some questions that need answering, and I figure the UAX people might be able to answer a few already: (1) does the Legendary Skill Hunter count towards maxed titles, (2) do you need to collect Core elites, and if so, do they count towards the Prophecies hunter skill, and (3) are these character-based or account-based. I'd do some of the work myself, but I'm at work now. Thanks. Alaris 13:17, 20 April 2007 (EDT)

Obviously they're character based, just as the old ones were. Legendary has one level, and when you complete that level (by maxing the other three titles), it's maxed out, so I'd imagine it'd count towards KOABD. Core elites - yes, they need collecting, but I'm not sure what they count as. Some people say all three, some say proph, some say none. I'm inclined to lean towards the latter, as - if you notice - the three titles specifically state a different campaign. But it will need testing.

All in all, I think it'll be a lot easier to get KOABD and possibly PKM with hard mode, though I'm not thrilled with the idea of mapping Ring of Fire in hard mode. At least we'll be able to get Vanquisher at the same time. Still, I took a peek in Hell's, and the titans are level 30... Only a two level boost, but as I was alone (and last time I tried soloing there it didn't go too well) I didn't get a chance to see what other nasty things they have now. Armond 15:56, 20 April 2007 (EDT)

My Skill hunter has almost all Nightfall elite skills (Dervish missing). But title track counts 105 of 141, that means for Nightfall you need Nightfall + Core - Lightbringer Skills. Factions needs 120 total, also Factions + Core, Prophecies needs 90. - MSorglos 17:26, 20 April 2007 (EDT)

Legendary Skill Hunter does count for KoaBD. With the three continental Skill Hunter titles, the Legendary one, and Canthan Grandmaster Cartographer, I am KoaBD. (Though I don't know why a meta title is counted by another meta title.) -- Dashface 02:26, 12 June 2007 (UTC)

Someone else confirmed that Legendary Cartographer is also counted towards KoaBD. I'm KoaBD working upwards, and I counted that I can get 14 titles not including hard mode (except for farming in hard mode): 1 Survivor + 4 Skill Hunters + 4 Cartographers + 3 Protectors + 1 Sunspear + 1 Lightbringer.

Basically, the more titles there are to choose, the more time there is for people to get them, the more KoaBD we'll see. But those who really want to stand out will aim for Mahogany and Leather Bound Books. I'm hoping GW:EN opens up a few more titles to work towards, as well as a skill hunter, protector, and cartographer of the north. Alaris 13:48, 12 June 2007 (UTC)

Homepage?

I had to seach to find this page, would make sense for there to be a link on the Wiki homepage.--The preceding unsigned comment was added by User: 82.47.80.246 .

Feel free to stick in a link at Main Page/editcopy and a note on the talk page. All users are created equal ^_^ --Snograt 14:00, 22 April 2007 (EDT)

2 monks = immortal

I noticed in hard mode (dry top) if you got 2 maguuma protector's, they are just immortal, they are kiting + very good healing. Vince2doom 11:29, 22 April 2007 (EDT)

Yes, multiple healers are a pain. Suggest you bring a Mesmer - a few scourges and backfires will sort 'em out :) --Snograt 14:00, 22 April 2007 (EDT)

I think that the hard mode is great in that it gives the opportunity for some players to discover other professions and use skills they did never consider to use. The main drawback is that I have never saw so much leavers among veterans, and that players working their survivor title are useless (gone at the fist potential threat). Serge Yseron 17:26, 25 April 2007 (EDT)

Allience battle has hardmode

Glitch me guess because nothings harder even the npcs.

Therefore it is proven: AB = PvE! — Skuld 17:15, 25 April 2007 (EDT)

However, in PvE foes will never stack you like this. Serge Yseron 17:26, 25 April 2007 (EDT)

Scrolls

From the current article: "Note that only the Underworld and Fissure of Woe scrolls are dropped in hard mode or standard mode. The Factions Elite Mission scrolls are unrelated and obtained through NPCs." That is most definitely wrong, because it suggests 1.) that no other scrolls drop in either mode (dead wrong) and that UW and FoW scrolls drop in normal mode (might be, but I'd like to see proof). --Xeeron 21:35, 8 June 2007 (UTC)

Well I reverted the normal mode part 'cause it needs proof. But are you saying it's wrong because it implies the XP scrolls don't? I don't think it does imply that, because the paragraph is clearly talking about passage scrolls. --Valshia 21:43, 8 June 2007 (UTC)

Hmmm you might be right. I changed the wording a bit to make sure only passage scrolls are meant. --Xeeron 23:28, 8 June 2007 (UTC)

I forgot to take a SS, but my guildie just got a passage scroll to the UW in the UW in Normal Mode. Kami No Kei 04:05, 26 June 2007 (UTC)

That's impossible. Sorry. Read the Hard Mode Facts page.

Testing your mettle in Hard mode will also give you the opportunity to find exciting new items.

Notice the distinct lack of the words oh yeah, and sometimes normal mode.- File:Drago-sig.gif Drago 04:08, 26 June 2007 (UTC)

I'd like to argue that A-Net does not always have the most accurate of word choices. It dropped, and I got one last week while in Normal mode trapping the UW because our party leader forgot to change the mode setting. Just because it says you find exciting new items in hard mode (like Tomes) doesn't mean that, bug or not, you can't find Scrolls of Passage in Normal mode. Kami No Kei 04:15, 26 June 2007 (UTC)

Except in the Fissure of Woe and the Underworld, where monsters do drop passage scrolls for the appropriate realm :D. -- Gordon Ecker 04:17, 26 June 2007 (UTC)

That's lunacy, it complete degrades the point of the scroll, and makes it far too easy to obtain. I shall report this. - File:Drago-sig.gif Drago 04:19, 26 June 2007 (UTC)

Green Drop Rate

Does anyone know if greens drop more frequently in HM? --The preceding unsigned comment was added by User:69.91.37.175 (talk). Ya, I think its raised in HM... just take a look at Claws of Broodmother....it drops MUCH more frequently in HM than NM --The preceding unsigned comment was added by User:Webster (talk).

That's mainly because noone farms raptors in NM... I think that the green drop rates are the same, since they would have included it in the list of more frequent drops if they dropped more frequently. Paddymew 20:00, 27 June 2009 (UTC)

LDoA

If hard mode is available for all lv 20 characters, assuming at least one character has completed the campaign, does this mean that Legendary Defender of Ascalon characters in pre searing Ascalon can access a pre searing hard mode? I know it seems like a dumb question, but I haven't found anything that confirms or denies this idea? Might be a reason to bother getting the title. Magua 15:15, 30 June 2007 (UTC)

I'm pretty sure I saw before that Hard Mode was available in every area except Pre-Searing. I thought I saw this on the official website, but I can't find it either. So I'm pretty sure even with LDoA, you can't play hard mode there, but I can't point you to my source. If you find that you can, please post that information because that would be really cool. Kami No Kei 15:56, 30 June 2007 (UTC)

Every instanced PvE area except pre-searing, Monastery Overlook, Island of Shehkah and the Battle Isles. -- Gordon Ecker 00:11, 1 July 2007 (UTC)

Would be a good idea having hard mode include pre-searing wouldn't need to death level so much if at all.--Dan Mocha 21:15, 25 January 2008 (UTC)

Need to be level 20 to access Hard Mode. Level 20. Calor (t) 21:19, 25 January 2008 (UTC)

Gaile has also said more than once that HM in pre-sear will never happen. -- Alaris 21:55, 25 January 2008 (UTC)

An idea for doing SF,FoW, and UW on hardmode

→ moved from User talk:Gaile Gray

Was thinking about the chests that don't requires keys when a player completes a quest are always purple in normal and hardmode. Cause i don't think its fair that you need to pvp to get a gold cystaline sword and other rare skinned weapons. Maybe you can add a chest like the hall of hero's chest that drops rare and rare skinned weapons like cystaline swords and tribal axes at the end of Fissure of woe,Underworld and other elite area's like Sorrows.--Killer of Good 22:36, 14 August 2007 (UTC)

Underworld and Fissure are significantly easier than winning HoH. So the rewards should reflect that, as they do at the moment. --ChronicinabilitY 22:41, 14 August 2007 (UTC)

What about people who do it on hardmode? and people who don't like to pvp? Why should they get left out of rare skinned weapons like cystline swords and Styegin Reavers and Dwarven Axe's etc...--Killer of Good 22:45, 14 August 2007 (UTC)

There are plenty of skins unavailable to PvPers. The only reason these skins are so rare IS because winning HoH isn't easy. There have to be some prestige items for both PvE and PvP. The PvE equivelant I would guess would be the tormented weapons. Edit: And no even on Hardmode UW is still 100 times easier than winning Halls.--ChronicinabilitY 22:53, 14 August 2007 (UTC)

To be honest, when was the last time you heard of a group actually finishing UW (all quests, clear all areas, not a single monster or quest left in the place)? It's insanely long. Perhaps introducing a HoH-like chest there wouldn't be a bad idea. I don't know about FoW, though - I don't go there as much. Armond 22:54, 14 August 2007 (UTC)

I have to agree. Winning HoH for a team who knows what they are doing is equal to if not less difficult than VANQUISHING Hardmode UW, FoW, or DoA with a similarly skilled team. In addition, PvP is not NEARLY as obssessed with weapon and armor skins like PvE is. But even with that, you should not complain about the skins with the new Tournament rewards system. You now have access to all PvE skins. If your good enough. Counciler 01:37, 15 August 2007 (UTC)

yes, but the hero battle system is still PvP. so really for those of us who hate the pvp portion of the game were not given any solution at all. -TehBuG-

I don't see a problem with putting in such a chest to encourage full UW and FoW sweeps. They don't have to drop the same rare skins that HoH chest drop you know... -- ab.er.rant 03:48, 15 August 2007 (UTC)

(Reset indent) Keep in mind that the rewards for Hall of Heroes were already changed, with the changes to Favor of the Gods. While I understand what and why you're making this request, please consider the changes in Favor, and the changes in the rewards to HoHers before asking that the rewards for this very difficult achievement be generalized. --Gaile 04:21, 15 August 2007 (UTC)

Why do you get a pve reward for pvp anyway? Wouldn't it make more sense for you to get one of the pvp rewards or a batch of tournament reward points? Its not like you get hero/glad/champ points or a shiny cape from completing missions in pve. Sadie2k 05:01, 15 August 2007 (UTC)

Reward points for winning halls?...now theres an idea I like the sound of! --ChronicinabilitY 05:18, 15 August 2007 (UTC)

Seconded. Counciler 17:08, 15 August 2007 (UTC)

Any plans in GW:EN for any REALLY high end areas? I mean areas that, in normal mode, are like Foundry in Hard Mode, so that on Hard Mode, they are about as difficult as winning a battle in the halls. Personally i like this idea as it gives PvEers access to incredibly high end areas that are incredibly difficult and drop incredibly expensive PvE items, instead of getting high end PvE items from high end PvPers. Just a thought. Undortunateld, i would probably not be 1337 enough to win in these areas myself.Killer Revan 18:13, 15 August 2007 (UTC)

DoA, UW and like FoW are Foundry in HM. HM on them is sick. Counciler 19:36, 15 August 2007 (UTC)

Since Foundry IS DoA you did just contradict yourself there! --ChronicinabilitY 20:16, 15 August 2007 (UTC)

ACtually, I was talking about Sorrow's Furnace. I get the two names confused sometimes. Counciler 23:29, 17 August 2007 (UTC)

I do think that the rewards for Sorrow's Furnace, the Fissure of Woe and the Underworld could be changed, but not by using the same rewards available through the Hall of Heroes - many of those are exclusive, and it doesn't bother me to see such exclusivity. However...I think Arena Net could do the same in SF, FoW and UW than they did on The Deep and Urgoz's Warren - when you finish any of those areas, a chest could appear giving players a inscriptable version of Prophecies and Factions weapons. It would finally make it possible for players to get inscriptable versions of those weapons, while still keeping them as "prestige" items, and it could be a place holder until Arena Net truly decides if they are going to implement inscriptions everywhere in Cantha and Tyria (like Elona currently has). Erasculio 20:22, 15 August 2007 (UTC)

My point is that there should be a really, really difficult area on some ultra crazy HM. The rewards would be similar to HoH chest rewards, and it would be just as difficult as HoH to win and get access to end. maybe give people with guardian of a specific area access to a super HM version of The Deep, Urgoz, UW, FoW, Sorrows furnace, DoA, and Tombs that do drop items of the HoH rarity. (Not sure id like to see a lvl 35 mallyx, but its a thought). This would be a good way of rewarding those that achieve the guardian title, which is difficult enough, as well as providing even more challenges to those that do. like i said, just a thought. Killer Revan 15:48, 16 August 2007 (UTC)

Hard Mode SF and UW are no where near as difficult as winning in the HoH. I could go pwn the cr@p out of HM SF or UW pretty easily but I certainly can't go win in the HoH on a whim, the rewards really need to reflect that. This greedy trend towards "make it easier to XXX" is tiresome. Play more, get better, claim the reward. --Tankity Tank 09:48, 17 August 2007 (UTC)

I fail at responding to two things at once, sorry. The problem with making extremely difficult pve is that it's hard to do. If you scale the difficulty by overpowering the monsters (ala hard mode) then someone will figure out a way to game their AI (hence farming). You need extremely good AI to do this successfully, and even then the AI is going to be extremely good at certain things (see heroes interrupt) and extremely bad at others (see heroes get out of AoE). Having said this I really can't support the idea of an "Extremely high end pve area where you get HoH type drops" - it's just not feasible at this time (if it is I haven't seen a single game company do it.) Realistically mimicking the behavior of competitive players is _extremely hard_ to program, and you're really not likely to see it in as diverse a game as guild wars any time soon. That said, if you have AI with the types of flaws that heroes currently exhibit in your "extremely high end pve area" I guarantee that someone will figure out how to farm it for the drops. We all know what happens then, everyone who worked hard for their legitimate HoH drops suddenly has the reward for their efforts taken away from them :-/ --Tankity Tank 10:10, 17 August 2007 (UTC)

I agree with Erasculio. -- Gordon Ecker 20:36, 17 August 2007 (UTC)

Same. --Tankity Tank 21:07, 17 August 2007 (UTC)

GW:EN Hard Mode

→ moved from User talk:Gaile Gray

Yay thanks for GW:EN hard mode! Will there still be the gwen titles weekend or has it really changed to the Alliance Battles weekend like the login announcment says? FirstSunspear 18:27, 12 October 2007 (UTC)

Doesn't work for everyone yet. I don't have Hard Mode access even though i've completed eotn and have a hero's handbook to prove it. Sadie2k 18:59, 12 October 2007 (UTC)

Confirming the no-access bug. -- (gem / talk) 19:00, 12 October 2007 (UTC)

Gaile has said, in-game, that this is being fixed. I was just there. - Drago 19:01, 12 October 2007 (UTC)

Here's an interesting glitch: Those who completed GW:EN prior to September 27 are currently unable to access GW:EN Hard Mode. Those who completed after September 27 are able to access HM. So, we'll make a fix soon. No one is required to do anything -- you do not need to "re-win" the game. :) Should have an update very shortly.

On another subject, for some strange reason, our message about this weekend's event sort of reverted to a message from last September. The event this weekend is the Reputation in GW:EN, not anything connected to Alliance Balance. Here is the exact text:

Eye of the North Reputation Weekend

Complete quests and defeat foes while under the effect of a shrine bonus this weekend to earn double Asura, Deldrimor, Ebon Vanguard, and Norn reputation points. Points for completed books are unaffected. This boost will last through 11:59 PM Pacific (-7 GMT) on Sunday, October 14.

I hope this is helpful info. -- Gaile 19:34, 12 October 2007 (UTC)

For anyone eager to get to HM immediately: Redoing A Time for Heroes lets you access HM. It's quick to redo. :) -- (gem / talk) 19:43, 12 October 2007 (UTC)

Whoa! It's a clever (and commendable) community that figures out a quick-and-easy workaround to a bug -- well done! We'll get that fix out there, but I confess that I'm impressed. :) -- Gaile 19:48, 12 October 2007 (UTC)

Heh, atleast some alliance members were happy when I found this out. And I got to do some EotN vanquishing myself. :) Wasn't too hard to figure out really. And thanks for the great job with lessening grind for the reputation titles! I'm sure most of the PvE population loves you guys for the massive rewards from the books. :) <3 -- (gem / talk) 21:44, 12 October 2007 (UTC)

I've unlocked HM on GW:EN without completing it. I just unlocked prophecies HM by completing it which apparently also unlocked GW:EN HM --The preceding unsigned comment was added by User:81.206.83.153 (talk).

Hardmode: Gwen

Just want to tell you guys: I completed Eye of the north not so long ago and there is NO hardmode ! --The preceding unsigned comment was added by User:84.196.244.86 .

It will come, go to Lions Arch put on hard mode and look at the dungeons/missions. --The preceding unsigned comment was added by User:217.123.100.130 .

I'm thinking the double EotN rep weekend means hard mode is this week, the same thing was done with Nightfall --The preceding unsigned comment was added by User:76.208.52.220 .

THEY SHOULD ADD A FASTER WAY TO GET LIGHTBRINGER AND SUNSPEAR POINTS LIKE THEY HAVE DONE WITH GWEN REPUTATION TITLES!!!!!!! sry for caps enjoy :P and pretty pls do this --The preceding unsigned comment was added by User:71.93.223.99 .

Like Junundu farming? :D -- Gordon Ecker 06:39, 16 October 2007 (UTC)

No, like maybe NM&HM books for nightfall missions, or a similar bounty system when you get bonus that can compound the amount of points you get per kill.....does anyone truly enjoy killing over and over to get to 50k points?? its insanely boring....to the point of nausea.

Yeah, but it's easy, so you can watch TV or something. The Deldrimor title has Secret Lair of the Snowmen and the Ebon Vanguard title has Siege Devourer farming, but the Asura and Norn titles have nothing. -- Gordon Ecker 02:22, 17 October 2007 (UTC)

Challenge Missions

Does Hard mode have any beneficial effect on the Nightfall challenge missions? - HeWhoIsPale 15:23, 8 January 2008 (UTC)

Pet Exp

Wierd Question, but I was wondering, do pets gain more Exp in HM? I've been power leveling my pet to be Dire in Hard Mode, but i was wondering if it got extra exp, since im gaining so many Skill Points compared to it levelling. 86.139.9.6 23:05, 24 June 2008 (UTC)

Ugg's Issue with HM

Has Hard Mode been toned down? Ever since the start of Hard Mode, I've been noticing that Hard Mode is getting easier and easier. I don't think it's just me that's saying this, but everywhere has been toned down somewhat. If that's the case, it demeans the point of getting Legendary Vanquisher or Legendary Guardian, as they just mean you've had the time to grind. When it was first there, I remember I had to use my knowledge of where pop-ups were, when certain mobs had to be pulled, but now... I can just charge in with little thought, the mobs are further away from one another and if it gets too hairy, use some consumables. There's little challenge in it anymore. I mean I like the better drops and rewards, but if anyone can do it and now I can do it all with heroes/hench only... there's no challenge and it shouldn't be called Hard Mode. --Ugg McFly 22:24, 24 October 2008 (UTC)

Say thank you to PvE-skills and the Consumables for that. --Arduinna 11:00, 4 April 2009 (UTC)

Not only the titles are pointless pve has no challenge, it is easy and boring and pointless. --Super Igor flame my shove sin bar! 11:12, 4 April 2009 (UTC)

Read the forums. There's still plenty of people who have a difficult time finishing "normal mode". If hard mode is too easy for you, you've been playing GW too long. -- Alaris 21:29, 4 April 2009 (UTC)

True that. --Arduinna 15:43, 6 April 2009 (UTC)

Drop rate issue

Has anyone ever experienced playing Hard mode, and getting drop rates simmilar to those of normal mode? This has happened to me more than once now. --The preceding unsigned comment was added by User:Pulha (talk).

I'm not sure, but I can tell this: (1) the quality is higher on average, so (2) even if the drop rate is similar, the income derived from it is much higher. Interesting observation, but I would not worry about it. The only time it might be better to do nm are (1) if you farm event or collectable stuff (like ToT bags or pies), and (2) if it takes you much longer to do the same tasks in HM. -- Alaris 20:08, 4 December 2008 (UTC)

Come on, this is starting to get really annoying. For 5 consecutive vanquishes, the best i got were mere blue items. What the hell is going on? Everyone on my alliance says they experience a normal drop rate in hard mode (normal as in the expected increase for Hard Mode), so what gives? Pulha 20:53, 7 December 2008 (UTC)

Really bad luck. --Riddle 20:56, 7 December 2008 (UTC)

Indeed, bad luck. I've been opening chests for a while now, and my average is 1 gold to 2 grapes. But when I do a 1h session, which fills my inventory twice, I get anywhere between 1-2 golds to 25-30 golds. Luck can really go both ways. Also, vanquishing is not the best way of getting golds. Farming or chest opening will give you a better yield for the time spent. -- Alaris 16:14, 8 December 2008 (UTC)

Low level

If I get quests ran, and get Hell's Precipe beaten at say, level 8, can I access hard mode without being level 20? Invincible Rogue 23:11, 22 June 2009 (UTC)

No. See access, it is only accessible to characters that are level 20. Freedom Bound 23:20, 22 June 2009 (UTC)

Awww. So getting a hell's run would be a waste >_< Invincible Rogue 00:57, 23 June 2009 (UTC)

Ancient note about missions

"As of the release of Hard mode, certain elite missions may be extremely difficult to complete in Hard mode. The difficulty of these missions will be examined, and necessary changes will be made at a later date. " Well, its been two years, any updates on this? Remove? 76.84.34.210 03:29, 10 August 2009 (UTC)

They've been updated, so the note is imo obsolete. /signed for removal. -- Alaris 13:29, 12 August 2009 (UTC)

Hard mode

→ moved from Guild Wars Wiki:Projects/Suggested Featured Pages

I think an article on hard mode talking about strategies and hints and tips would come in useful. Also, as a non PvP'er I am unused to preparing for spikes. I'm sure that I read somewhere that hard mode can present spikes in a similar manner to PvP. An in-depth article on tackling hard mode would come in very handy, particularly for those of us who want to max out title tracks and are now tackling hard mode for the first time.--Stu 18:06, 27 June 2009 (UTC)

You're proposing things to be implemented into the Hard mode article, feel free to improve that article and discuss it on it's talk page. This page is for discussion about which page to feature on the Main Page though. — Why 13:59, 28 June 2009 (UTC)

You misunderstand me. I am suggesting pages that I feel would be useful to other players, maybe those who aren't as experienced as some of the veteran players. I would like to see an in-depth page on hard mode as I think it would be useful. As I am not in a position to write an in-depth guide to hard mode I guess I'm making a request for someone who can to do so.--Stu 09:35, 1 July 2009 (UTC)

Sure, but this isn't the the place for discuss about it. - J.P.Talk 09:59, 1 July 2009 (UTC)

33-50% faster casting

Do monsters also activate skills, such as signets, 33-50% faster or does that bonus only affect their spells? --Silver Edge 16:19, 1 September 2009 (UTC)

It doesn't specify, so I'd assume its faster casting of anything that has cast time. - Chrisworld 23:13, 13 September 2009 (UTC)

If that is the case, then it should be changed to "33-50% faster activation of skills", since casting refers to spells only. --Silver Edge 01:06, 14 September 2009 (UTC)

Would anyone be willing to test this? I could probably go out and find a boss using healing signet specifically, since that is not a spell and see if casts faster on them. - Chrisworld 03:08, 22 September 2009 (UTC)

Heroes/Henchman

Why don't they listen to you in hard mode? You flag them, and Dead Shadowhoof just runs around like a hammer warrior, Livia decides to touch-heal all of her spells, and the rest try to make sure the enemy rangers can see them. Is this just me, or does anyone else have this problem?

Why does zhed have a hammer, livia have touch spells, heals at that, and why are you using h/h? Bring people with you, its more fun. Sonic Sunday 20:08, 15 November 2009 (UTC)

Did hell's precipice yesterday, and noticed that *both* my Mo hench had touch-range rezzes, and thus would run to frontline whenever I died. *grumble* But otherwise, I find that the hench bars are generally ok, and heroes use bars properly provided you stay away from certain spells. -- Alaris 17:01, 16 November 2009 (UTC)

Da Sonic lol. He says Zhed runs around like a hammer wilder, not the is a hammer wielder. And bringing h/h is often more effective then bringing people, since people can make mistakes... or be noob... If you wanna get Vanquisher by just bringen real players, well gl then lol -- Magamdy 18:26, 6 December 2009 (UTC)