Talk:Hidden Talent

Source? --Riddle 00:08, 29 October 2011 (UTC)

Probably the dat file, same place he got all the skills for Scarred Psyche before it went live.-- Pyron Sy 00:22, 29 October 2011 (UTC)

The user that created this article is the same one who created the Minion Apocalypse article about one and a half days before Minion Apocalypse came into effect. --Silver Edge 03:04, 29 October 2011 (UTC)

Was expecting the Minion thing when I went to a PVP outpost just now. Saw this one instead. Flux changed early? Karuro 00:34, 1 November 2011 (UTC)

Looks like it changed at, well, midnight UTC, which is presumably ahead of your timezone. Cynique 08:11, 1 November 2011 (UTC)

UK switched out of summer time, but US doesn't switch for another week. See the list of automated changes. – Tennessee Ernie Ford (TEF) 08:28, 1 November 2011 (UTC)

The difference between UK summer and non-summer time has almost nothing to do with UTC. ("Almost" nothing because UK non-summer time is GMT which is UTC+0000.) Cynique 09:27, 1 November 2011 (UTC)

Thanks for buffing

Thanks for buffing us Touch Rangers, Spirit Strength Sins, Prism Eles, N/Rt healers, RoJ spammers, Conjure Sin, Splinter Barragers, Wastrel spamming Eles, etc among others. This flux will be amazing in terms of customization in that it allows heavy prior-impossible mixing of primary attribute and secondary profession's attributes(For example, you can make an ele heal at 14 healing prayers *cough* noob example *cough*) while still having 14 Energy Storage. 99.244.36.101 02:28, 1 November 2011 (UTC)

LOL Spirit Strength Sins?! Yeah, Spirit Strength SURE is great on 2 spawning power. Derp. 128.119.156.70 17:40, 1 November 2011 (UTC)

Those are all still terrible bars, even with +2 attributes.--Four Year Strong 02:31, 1 November 2011 (UTC)

None of these are even half viable for GvG, but for other places, they already work fine and are buffed by this. 99.244.36.101 02:33, 1 November 2011 (UTC)

heres what u get. an already good build with 1-3~ major runes for your secondaries... without health penalty. OP? 95.123.185.45 02:49, 1 November 2011 (UTC)

Who said anything about OP? There's nothing OP nor gamebreaking about the flux, just allows us to have 14 points in secondaries which is something we could not do before. Meta wont change much just because of something like 2 attribute points, it just makes things more interesting for those who like mixing up. 99.244.36.101 04:09, 1 November 2011 (UTC)

Conjure WC is meta. — Raine Valen 2:56, 1 Nov 2011 (UTC)

zz, 1 bar out of 8 horrifically bad ones--Four Year Strong 02:57, 1 November 2011 (UTC)

BB-war is back? Yae Mozs 05:56, 1 November 2011 (UTC)

I've been using touch ranger since factions came out in RA, FA and AB, works like charm. Of course it isn't viable for serious pvp, but let's compare apples with apples shall we. These bars are brilliant in non-serious pvp.83.82.16.60 08:38, 1 November 2011 (UTC)

Well, A/P spike! Stronger but you pretty much die instantly if unprotted/fail to dodge spears anyway so the extra damage from spears wouldn't really matter much. I'd also think some gimmick revolving around OotV derv flagger, RaO dagger/axe/spear/whatever rangers with Barbs mesmer with an elite like Depravity or simply PI with hexes like Shadow of Fear and maybe even Ulcerous Lungs if running Jagged Strike on the rangers for more pressure. But it's just always been so much easier and effortless to simply faceroll with Dervs since their remake. :< Zencow 09:50, 1 November 2011 (UTC)

SS Sins which were actually sins would have 0 Spawning still. However Rt/As would get a boost to dagger mastery. In fact, alternate-weapon builds sound like the best thing, tbh. A/P, W/P, A/D, W/D, A/W, D/W, D/P? Hmm. 2.24.243.88 01:27, 3 November 2011 (UTC)

W/E Flare Warriors are viable in FA now, great. 86.91.68.168 20:43, 4 November 2011 (UTC)

Please do tell me what you are using. Hearing the name Flare on a warrior is as disturbing as hearing Mending on a warrior. Saying it's viable you really made me curious how you made a warrior with Flare viable. Da Mystic Reaper 21:33, 4 November 2011 (UTC)

Yea... I'm as lost as yiu Mystic... Unless its to catch a low-hp target who's escaping, but Coward is much better... even stone daggers or dancing daggers could be more effective than flare. Derikvyreflame 22:31, 4 November 2011 (UTC)

N/Rt healers, Me/A Wastrel's Shadow, Me/Mo RoJ nuke, Rt/N MM, W/A and W/E, and Rt/P Spearspam ahoi in CM.82.156.22.85 09:37, 5 November 2011 (UTC)

Paradox

So, to create new metas and shake things up, away from the imbalance of secondary professions... A-Net promotes secondary use. While people are going to COMPLAIN about this, I must disagree. This opens up SO many possibilties, making former skills, which were barely unusable withou atleast 13 in an attribute, viable for new builds. Embrace the insanity: It has begun. Derikvyreflame 04:02, 1 November 2011 (UTC)

It opens up... what possibilities, exactly? See the above section - none of those examples are remotely viable, even with +2 attributes. It's one thing to yap about possibilities in theoryland, it's another to run them in reality. -Auron 04:19, 1 November 2011 (UTC)

the point i am making is that it opens up build possibilities that wouldn't normally be viable. On a lesser note, now any class can use shiro's weapons. ^^ (eidt: i didnt answer your question directly cause i'm too tired to try anything out atm, i'll get back to you on that)Derikvyreflame 13:40, 1 November 2011 (UTC)

Now Evis wars only have to put 3 points into Air Magic for Gale! InfestedHydralisk 08:26, 1 November 2011 (UTC)

There are pleny of possibilities, like taking equiping a shield with a minimal of investemnt in the attribute and leaving you with attribute points for your main attributes. Also there are plenty of builds that can now function with the increase in these points where you had to overspread them first. OK i am gonna say this as bit of a joke but how would Hamstorm function, it's actually the first thing that crossed my mind when i read the effect. Da Mystic Reaper 16:31, 1 November 2011 (UTC)

Hamstorm would still suck because of the warrior's low base energy. --The Holy Dragons 16:43, 1 November 2011 (UTC)

You don't know how to manage energy with a warrur?ô_σ Not saying Hamstorm is a good idea, just that the problem isn't energy.

On a side note, this opens up a lot of possibilities for those of us who are creative, a fine example of why not to use pvx. Build makers will see the potential in this, build copiers won't.--Gerroh 21:00, 1 November 2011 (UTC)

Crippling Slash

Gash

Knee Cutter

Sun and Moon Slash

Flail

Enraging Charge

Flame Burst

Conjure Flame

Well something like that is what i had in mind. Or something like this

Dismember

Executioner's Strike

Disrupting Chop

"Fear Me!"

Anthem of Flame

Soldier's Defense

Soldier's Fury

Leader's Comfort

If you know where to look you can make some fun new builds. Da Mystic Reaper 21:32, 1 November 2011 (UTC)

Sigh. Flame Burst. On a warrior. Unless you're running zealous all day with a IAS, I can't really call that fun. AND you chose Flail. With a sword bar. With Flame Burst. I hope you understand why that build isn't even remotely feasible. 128.119.156.70 22:35, 1 November 2011 (UTC)

Zealous would also completely defeat the purpose of conjure... Just putting that out there... 64.15.81.27 00:46, 2 November 2011 (UTC)

Dear IP's: Please read skills. Knee cutter is there for a reason. Flail is normal for cripslash, as the enemy would be moving at 50% normal, you would be moving at 67% normal. In case you're bad at math, 67% speed is faster than 50% speed. For the first build I'd recommend dropping flame burst for like... Mark of Rodgort. The constant burning would cover cripple, and you'd maintain -10 degen on your target. I like the second build, I might even try that. Good thinking, Reaper.--Gerroh 21:02, 2 November 2011 (UTC)

I tried the 2nd build it's fun but not as effective as you would think. --The Holy Dragons 21:20, 2 November 2011 (UTC)

Well those are just some untested ideas and examples of how to think with builds, also concidering that secondaries can reach attribute 14 WITHOUT using runes wich is a big advantage over the primaries. I find N/Rt restoration particulary effective, but i havn't found any good combinations on the other professions since i havn't played them that much yet. Anyways i'm suprised the P/W build is actually being tried, might wanna change it to spear instead of axe ;). Da Mystic Reaper 21:39, 2 November 2011 (UTC)

gerroh: flail is still a bad ias for swords, unless you can guarantee that the other tema won't have condition removal worth a damn you have no way of making sure you'll be on your target enough, and your only cancel stance is echarge which has an annoying habit of being on recharge when you want to use it to cancel flail (unless you're using it wrong, I guess), mark of rodgort is bad because it's expensive and takes away from the time you spend being next to your target, knee cutter isn't enough energy unless your opponents suck at denying you adrenaline (in which case it doesn't matter anyway), and the P/W is just kind of pointless, a shock or prage axe would dot hat job so much better. in short this flux doesn't do much because +2 attributes isn't too much in the first place, even less on secondary attributes only, thouhg it is kind of nice I think its really going to end up best as a small boost to secondary skills like natural stride or shield of force or things like that, really itll be best on shield users, but the difference between 7 and 9 attribute (or 6 and 8 attribute) isnt usually enough to boost any other skills a noticable amount 24.130.140.36 22:52, 2 November 2011 (UTC)

Yes, it would be a real shame if the enemy managed to remove the spammable cripple that's covered by spammable bleeding, deep wound, and burning. Mark of Rodgort is 15 energy, which you need to use like, once or twice per target, and you have knee cutter. Adren denial is an invalid argument, as it'd make any warrur build useless if it were really that big of a problem.

The Paragon build has the following: Constant ~50% crit chance vs stationary(Normal otherwise), 33% more adren than prage, easy 75% chance to block whenever needed, and occasional burning. The build does better with "Lead The Way" in it, if you ask me, but remember, Reaper was only posting untested ideas, those aren't meant to be solid builds. I did P/W axe, slightly different from above, and I did retarded amounts of unending pressure.--Gerroh 21:57, 3 November 2011 (UTC)

the moment anyone drops a RC on your target you have to swap, because with flail's snare and mor's cast time youll never catch up again unless you echarge them, at which point the whole cycle begins again, 15e is a huge deal on a warrior's 20e max (25e if you're brave), even with knee cutter, I'm not convinced you understand that, and its especially important since mesmers are everywhere and the moment they looka t you you dont have enough energy for mor, and if it gets removed you have to spend a full second and a half or whatever recasting and waitng for aftercast, and by that point the other guy's flat gone

the p/w is similar, lead the way would be basiclaly required because otherwise you're spending too much time on soldier's fury, anthem of flame is unnecessary with fear me up, and most importantly you dont have 15% armor pen on your attacks kills, which is a pretty important deal

they may be untested ideas, but that doesnt mean theyre very good or that you can be a dick about the whole thing 24.130.140.36 17:28, 7 November 2011 (UTC)

oh and my point with adrenaline denial was that in a realistic situation with kiting and snares and such youre not going to be attacking enough for knee cutter to give you more energy than mor will eat up 24.130.140.36 17:30, 7 November 2011 (UTC)

IMO Axe Para works better with Soldier's Stance - you lose out on the adrenaline but it activates instantly and doesn't make you super-squishy. You can also use "To the Limit!" as your shout for adrenaline gain, but given you should be taking "Lead the Way!" anyway it's not necessary. Also Spear Swipe. (WM) 2.24.243.29 19:13, 7 November 2011 (UTC)

I'm not a big fan of Soldier's Stance (PvP), only offering a conditional IAS. Soldier's Fury may have a casting time but it's lasts about 3 times longer and i seriously doubt you would need to take that long to take out a target. About the squishiness, that is nowhere near Primal Rage. The armor cannot be reduced below 60 like cracked armor while Primal Rage doubles all damage. With a shield you would still have 76 armor wich is enough for a frontline. I have been using it with "Lead the Way!" and Penetrating Blow in FA (doesn't like RA,HA and GvG) and i myself find it a fun build to use, it does it's job wich people often don't expect. Da Mystic Reaper 19:40, 8 November 2011 (UTC)

More like breakpoints

12+1+1 Heal, 11+1 DF, 6(+2) Tactics = 8/16 shields or 8/15 and 7/15 instead of 5/13. 2 armor isn't that much... +2 to conjures isn't much +4DPS at most, at least for warriors. You have to think about breakpoints: Gale on Me/E with 14 dom and 13 FC 3+2 air, Yeti Smash (now you can roll 14 dagger, 13 crit strikes, 3+2 hammer).

I feel the class that gains the most is mesmer, honestly. The only barrier to using Necro/Ele skills (other than Foul feast) was attributes. 14 Blood magic Me/N blood spike. Nearly un-interruptible pain of disenchantment + Faintheartedness + Barbs to maximize melee damage / Chilblains at 6 with Auspicious Incantation. Chain Lightning + Lightning orb with Auspicious Incantation or Elemental attunement. Searing Flames+Glowing Gaze on a mesmer in low end pvp. Strip enchantment still needs 10 attribute levels, so it's not really as big a change.

Melee with Plague touch without sacrificing damage (3+2)= 2 conditions transferred.

Other things that we may see more : N/Me with Crip Anguish+Fragility, D/Rt packing Sight beyond sight, Monks with Dark Escape+Return, Ebon Dust Aura swords (warriors with swords were never that great anyway), W/P with spears (in lowend PvP). Mind blast with other attributes would probably be more viable, but Eles in general are pretty shafted because energy storage is only good for Mind Blast (Invoke is better on Me/E given the flux and anything water you can run on Rt/E). --Life Infusion «T» 14:15, 1 November 2011 (UTC)

Invoke isn't really better on Me/E though, you hit the same air but you lose all secondary utility and the only spells that really get buffed by FC are attune & chain, if you take it that is and to be honest invoke needs high energy storage for offensive pushes (spamspamspam) or even when you're losing for blind spamming. Sight beyond sight is the same as it is in spawning power. The extra 2 attribs i honestly think won't change what anybody runs, its just such a minor buff. I only reckon this will change at all if there is something ridiculously lame i can't think of atm, such as those invoke spamming e/me teams in tombs in the massive damage flux. But its nowhere near as gamebreaking a flux as that so eh, minor changes if that. 213.131.109.129 15:30, 1 November 2011 (UTC)

Oh, and i don't think you get how fast casting works. You might want to read the page on it. Truely, this effects nothing. Mesmers no more than anyone else. 213.131.109.129 16:49, 1 November 2011 (UTC)

"and the only spells that really get buffed by FC are attune & chain" Ele attunements don't have 2 second cast times anymore, so FC wouldn't affect them. --Silver Edge 06:19, 4 November 2011 (UTC)

You hit the nail on the head. Derikvyreflame 16:22, 1 November 2011 (UTC)

Yeah Life Infusion, I hope you understand that Mesmer's fast casting attribute only kicks in with non-mesmer spells that are above 2 seconds of activation time, so things like you have listed (Faintheartedness and Pain of Disenchantment) won't be affected by Mesmer's fast casting. I'm surprised you completely skipped this nuance. 128.119.156.70 17:14, 1 November 2011 (UTC)

I can see why people think mesmers will be benefited the most, I play almost every day and I'm like an Alzheimer patient, "Oh yeah, fast casting doesn't work like that anymore for non mesmer spells"174.100.25.69 17:30, 1 November 2011 (UTC)

Yeah I remember the change, I was using a signet of illusions mes/necro in Aspenwood and it was quite good fun, then suddenly it wasn't as fun ;). They keep nerfing the fun stuff. N/Rt or E/Rt were quite fun in "casual PvP" aka Aspenwood,JQ, when the weapon spells weren't nerfed :). Oh well, this "Hidden Talent" stuff could be fun :) 60.50.244.171 14:42, 5 November 2011 (UTC)

Have you actually played any of those? It seriously sounds like you're pulling random skills out of your ass and listing them as harbingers of the apocalypse. There's a reason people don't run this: it sucks. It looks really cool when you look at it because omg such big numbers /\_/\, but then you run it and you realize it hasn't changed much. All this will do with regards to builds is make touch rangers more annoying in bad PvP and help a few gimmicky spike builds. It'll probably have a bigger impact on people trying to meet their shield requirements than anything else. –Jette 01:43, 2 November 2011 (UTC)

^This, but GoEP owns in some spike builds. Then again, hardly anybody will run secondary prof spike skills, so its still useless. 213.131.109.129 10:00, 2 November 2011 (UTC)

Hmm your examples don't do the flux justice... A really good breakpoint is Strip Enchantment at whole 10+2 blood magic spec exclusively for it on the Air ele. Also, we baddies fought an Monk/Mesmer today in GvG running Healing/Heaven's Delight with Frustration and Fragility with 14/14 divine/illu rather than mesmer primary. The rest of their build was just standard yawnful faceroll dervs though but substitution obviously brought very good anti-pressure for their team. tl;dr I got rolled :< Zencow 13:40, 2 November 2011 (UTC)

Well if you cant find anything good you could just go nec secondary for +2e on deaths. Or ele for +6e, or +1e if your using fallback. Nothing major but the flux isnt meant to be game breaking. Justice 18:32, 2 November 2011 (UTC)

"You have a +2 bonus to all of the secondary attributes of your secondary profession. " --The Holy Dragons 18:48, 2 November 2011 (UTC)

Breakpoints *are* probably more important than raw damage. However, for hybrid builds, consider that you'll be getting +2 to ALL of your secondary attributes. For example, a Curses (e.g. LC) Nec who specs into Death for Well of the Profane (not the best example but the first I thought of) would typically have 12+1+1 Curses and whatever+1 Death. An anything else/Nec would get +2 to both without needing any runes. Obviously in this case you don't get SR, but an E/N with some Energy Storage and maybe Aura of Restoration etc could work, as could a Me/N or anything which might want a skill from another primary class. Conversely an N/anything or E/anything is probably better than anything which doesn't rely so much on a primary attribute. 2.24.243.88 01:39, 3 November 2011 (UTC)

Oh oops ;-) It looked a little wordy the first time i read it but didnt understand that part in it. And LC + Suffering was something i considered but unfortunatly fastcasting doesnt change its casting time anymore. 1sec is fast enough i suppose but at that rate i could just roll necro and get SR too ;-) Justice 18:23, 3 November 2011 (UTC)

No but you could also pack WotP, Chillblains etc. and not only get FC on them, you could get the full +2 too. Actually Sin and Derv casters could be pretty neat because you get more armour and the same or better attributes (even Para casters, with say one shout/chant and some Leadership). Depends if you need your other class' primary attribute, though. (WM) 2.24.243.88 01:01, 4 November 2011 (UTC)

Contaigon Bomber

Can you bomb with an assasin (at 14 death magic instead of 16), ppl are less likely to snare an A/N in JQ than an N/A--213.118.225.137 16:52, 8 November 2011 (UTC)

You probably could do this but someone's could easily catch on once they see you cast the bomber skills or successfully blow up a shrine. It'd be a short-lived advantage, at best. Toraen 17:53, 8 November 2011 (UTC)

Not to mention how you get 14 death magic on a secondary necro :/ Crimmastermind 19:25, 8 November 2011 (UTC)

Hidden Talent 24.130.140.36 19:29, 8 November 2011 (UTC)

It was very much possible before, too. You had to be sure to get the second sacrifice off or wait longer for degen to take out the shrine, but it was still easy to pull off. So yes, you can bomb as an A/N, especially during this flux. Load up with 12 points in both Death Magic and Blood Magic and go to town. 97.107.103.46 15:49, 21 November 2011 (UTC)

And with all this discussion

The only actual change that happened was warriors taking Plague Touch occasionally. -Auron 11:22, 22 November 2011 (UTC)

SS rits HA meta. — Raine Valen 18:58, 22 Nov 2011 (UTC)

HA can't have a meta when it doesn't have players. -Auron 23:13, 22 November 2011 (UTC)

Since when have you needed players to play HA? Oh, maybe that joke is out of date, I'm not sure anymore. Also: plague touch scaling with attributes is totally gay. I used to take it on my warrior all the time. –Jette 00:08, 23 November 2011 (UTC)

What? Plague Touch use to transfer only 1 condition when it wasn't tied to an attribute. Now that Plague Touch is tied to Curses, it transfers 1-3 conditions with the same activation time and cost, so how is that bad? --99.232.78.45 05:46, 23 November 2011 (UTC)

Dubs weekend + quest day = enough players for gimmick meta. — Raine Valen 6:44, 23 Nov 2011 (UTC)

For a while it transferred two without any attribute. –Jette 14:49, 23 November 2011 (UTC)