Talk:Kilroy Stonekin's Punch-Out Extravaganza!

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• 2007 Sep - 2010 Jul

Increased difficulty due to skill changes

It should be noted that certain skill changes have greatly increased the time required to complete the dungeon normally compared to when it was first released:

• Stonewolves no longer stop using other skills under primal rage, so instead using a couple of skills and then entering into rage, they keep using skills. Fortunately, they get double damage to compensate that.
• Forceful Blow and Whirling Axe now remove stances and cannot be blocked. This makes the first skill useless when there's 2 or more axe or hammer wielding stone summit. Whenever you activate the block, they'll use those stance removals, so all the health saved before by that skill is gone, since you can't see the skills of the one you are not targeting, and thus you cannot save the block to use with other skills. Using it is no longer about skill, it's just about luck.
• Liutenant Maghma has Dwarven Battle stance, which now interrupts your attacks with any of his, I can't say is fun surviving enough to get the 8 adrenaline skill to get it interrupted right away. Targeting him to attack only when he doesn't attack doesn't help, since you can't focus on him, you must take out the other weaker enemies before him, or you'll get spiked to death since you can't block them. And by the time you see the skill effects in his hammer, it's too late.

Kilroy is also much less durable because of these changes, and he dies extremely fast now. Before this changes, you could try to bring aggro to yourself and you'll endure the beating better since you recover HP, but now they'll knock you down in 3 seconds, ignoring your block (and interrupting you in the fight with Maghma) take down Fronis and then keep knocking you down. After some practice, I could get to the end in HM with just 10..25 energy , now I'm lucky if I get with less than 65. Of course, finishing is still possible, just way harder, so other choices for Survivor may be better now. MithTalk 13:30, 31 January 2011 (UTC)

Thanks for posting about this. I'd read the main article and finally beat EotN last month. I thought that HM would be a lot easier considering how recommended the advice on the main page was. What you've posted here definitely matches up with my experience. :/ I still haven't managed to get past Maghma in HM and I'm wondering if it would just be better for me to farm in NM instead. :( Fallen Angel Eyes 22:01, 12 May 2011 (UTC)

Mesmer primary

When rune-ing armor. It needs to be known that Prodigy's insignias are decidedly better than Stalwart's insignias. The +10 armor is assumed if you are spamming skills as you should (equivalent to stalwart's already), and the +15 armor is still active a majority of the time. This is the best scenario for armor rating you can achieve with the low tier armor classes.

I tried to edit this into the rune section of this page, but was denied within a half hour.

Don't confuse "recharging" with "building adrenaline" - they're not the same thing. There are only 2 skills that "recharge" (3 in hard mode). Crunching the numbers, it seems that in normal mode, you will have +5 armor most of the time with Prodigy's Insignia, the rest of the time you will have +0. In hard mode, you will have +10 most of the time if you spam like crazy with no regard for boxing tactics, while you'll have a +5 if you're not spamming. There's no instance (within this mission) in which Prodigy's Insignia is better than Stalwart Insignia, as Stalwart provides a constant +10. Again, don't confuse "recharging" with "building adrenaline" - they're not the same thing. --Mystisteel 18:08, 27 September 2011 (UTC)

In addition, the best 60-base armour is achieved by Elementalists using a full set of Prismatic Insignia, as long as they take all four elemental magic attributes at 9, because this gives +20. Cynique 21:21, 27 September 2011 (UTC)

After January 5th update

Since the January update I have noticed that the stone summit are harder to kill due to the increased health, have anyone else noticed this? --The preceding unsigned comment was added by 58.106.165.55 (talk) at 10:02, 9 January 2012 (UTC).

You're not alone, See here. File:User Chieftain Alex Chieftain Signature.jpg Chieftain Alex 09:04, 9 January 2012 (UTC)

Overhauling and merging proposals

There's two of them.

• The typical Falconeye's fails with no proposal explanation at all

• A clean-up that was brought together from a move

How are we supposed to overhaul a page if we don't know the whys? Yoshida Keiji talk 04:45, 31 July 2012 (UTC)

Since this page has been overbloated my suggestions is to ignore both the Merge and the Clean-up, by creating two Guides and link them at the bottom of this page as "See". Yoshida Keiji talk 05:00, 31 July 2012 (UTC)

The proporsal:

{{merge|Dwarven Brawling <!--since we should probably have an ''general purpose advice page'' for Dwarven Brawling rather than copy & paste-->}}

Has been removed because there are a total of four (4) quests related and such information should NOT be "Merged" to only one of them, less of all to the second out of four. See: Dwarven_Brawling#List_of_quests_requiring_Dwarven_brawling. Yoshida Keiji talk 12:04, 31 July 2012 (UTC)

I think you are misunderstanding the proposal.

• There is Dwarven Brawling, which is used in several quests.
• 95% of the advice is the same (which attributes to boost, which mods to put on the weapon, ...)
• That advice is repeated, in different language in all four quest articles.

I would prefer that we put the 95% advice under Dwarven Brawling and only include the 5% bits that are different on the quest articles. For example, there some things that one should do during Cantha Courier Crisis that aren't possible during Fronis runs. But, the prep work remains nearly the same. – Tennessee Ernie Ford (TEF) 04:52, 1 August 2012 (UTC)

I have the same understanding. The problem was User:Falconeye again... he wanted us to merge Dwarven Brawling to only 1 quest when 4 have it in common, and the 1 quest he wanted was actually the second out of four. So my reaction is a negative to User:Falconeye, so that we better leave it separate, or else all those four quests will become overbloated with repeated information. The alternative would be to "merge it" but to the first of four, since they are chained. Again User:Falconeye messed up tagging a page with a maintenance template without proper proposal at talk page and I feel compelled to axe it due to violation against consensus, which he is very good at. Yoshida Keiji talk 05:03, 1 August 2012 (UTC)

Ah, OK. Carry on! (I misunderstood what you were doing. My apologies.)

I still think we need to do something, but ... I'm not enthusiastic about all the bookkeeping involved. – Tennessee Ernie Ford (TEF) 05:07, 1 August 2012 (UTC)

Me neither, I only cared about Dungeon walkthroughs. Pro-brawling or fast chest opening not my interest. Yoshida Keiji talk 05:20, 1 August 2012 (UTC)

NM health amounts

Reading this article, under general tips, it says "Almost every foe has the same health: 100 in normal mode and 200 in hard mode. Exceptions: Ettins, Wolves and bosses.", However under Notes section it says "The dwarves have 80 health in normal mode and 200 in hard mode.", which NM value is correct? Anon-e-mouse (talk) 08:43, 7 May 2014 (UTC)

If I recall correctly, using Brawling Uppercut in normal mode kills the regular dwarves in one hit - so I'd guess, from memory, that they have 80hp? -Chieftain Alex 10:28, 7 May 2014 (UTC)

I'll test this next time I'm in the dungeon and adjust accordingly. Anon-e-mouse (talk) 16:29, 7 May 2014 (UTC)