Talk:List of rat bosses

Should this article be deleted?

Disagree - Example. --Falconeye 04:28, 18 July 2011 (UTC)

I'd petition that for deletion as well, tbh. Konig/talk 04:36, 18 July 2011 (UTC)

And This. --Falconeye 04:37, 18 July 2011 (UTC)

(Edit conflict) Oh, and we don't even know if the creature type really is "rat" - we can literally only tell that its not "Human" or "Kappa" - it could be typeless, or as "Animal" (we were told "Animal" is different from "charmable animal" by Andrew McLeod a while back), or it could be "Beast" or anything really. So this article is also speculative on the lack of information. Konig/talk 04:38, 18 July 2011 (UTC)

(Edit conflict)

The question is: should we have "list" articles (and/or categories) that only include a single article? I don't think so, unless there's a very compelling argument. So, I think both List of rat bosses and List of oni bosses should be deleted.

If it's really important that all bosses get listed some place, then perhaps a more useful article would be, list of bosses by species, which could probably be produced via an automagic template of some sort. (In fact, it might be more useful to include simply, "list of bosses" and include sortable columns for species, campaign, profession, and location(s).) — Tennessee Ernie Ford (TEF) 04:39, 18 July 2011 (UTC)

To clarify: A list of one item is pointless, your examples are in effect also subject to this very tag. Defend your reasons not with examples but with reasoning. Just because it was done in the past, the argument of tradition, is not a reason to continue doing so and is not a reason to change what was done. No one needs a list one one subject.

In regards to TEF's suggestion, collapseable lists make more sense than manual - we should at least create dpl listings. Those which have so few entries (e.g., 1-4 for instance) could be put into a single list (List of bosses by species works - we'd then just link all those which have many bosses). Konig/talk 04:41, 18 July 2011 (UTC)

List of single Category bosses by creature type (species)

List of oni bosses moved

List of snowman bosses

List of moa bosses moved

List of rat bosses moved

List of junundu bosses moved

List of berserker bosses moved

List of skelk bosses

List of vermin bosses

List of wallow bosses

List of incubus bosses

List of phantom bosses

etc. --Falconeye 04:51, 18 July 2011 (UTC)

Are you going to make an argument as to why it is beneficial to players to have lists that contain only a single NPC? Wouldn't it be better to have one list that covers them all? — Tennessee Ernie Ford (TEF) 05:09, 18 July 2011 (UTC)

Im saying if there is a better method of accomplishing the desired outcome, go for it! The people(s) who put together the current "Bosses by ----" worked hard enough... only to just to delete disagreeable content outright? ^_^ --Falconeye 05:21, 18 July 2011 (UTC)

It's not outright: there's no argument presented for preservation other than, "well, it's been here for a while." The argument for removal is: "it's not useful and it's arguably distracting from other useful info."

What is the desired outcome? It's hard to have a better method if we haven't established what that is. At the moment, the only one I've been able to discerns is, "let's list everything," which strikes me as a lot of work without much benefit and (worse) distracting from more useful content. — Tennessee Ernie Ford (TEF) 06:01, 18 July 2011 (UTC)

Honestly speaking, I don't see a purpose to any of these lists except to make a fancier version of the various categories. Which in the end comes down to just being pleasing to the eyes or not. Thus either the lists or the categories are redundant. Konig/talk 07:04, 18 July 2011 (UTC)

Since Berserkers are a subspecies of Minotaurs, and Junundu's are a subspecies of Wurms, they've been merged with thier respective pages... Should the entire category of Snowman be merged and/or reclassified as a subspecies of either constructs and/or elemental? Should the other single Category bosses be reclassified to justify merging then into existing? --Falconeye 03:53, 29 July 2011 (UTC)

Merge those things that belong in a merged category, but not everything will fit into neat little boxes...and it should be ok to leave some bosses simply listed under Category:Bosses, but not in any of its subcats. — Tennessee Ernie Ford (TEF) 03:59, 29 July 2011 (UTC)

As "construct" isn't a mechanical term, that should not be used at all. Konig/talk 04:16, 29 July 2011 (UTC)

SO... any ideas where the Wallow, Vermin, Shelk, Moa & Rat should go? --Falconeye 05:07, 29 July 2011 (UTC)

I question whether there's a "moa" and "rat" creature type truth be told. We just placed that cuz we don't know what else it'd be... Konig/talk 05:09, 29 July 2011 (UTC)

Are there any evidence/precidence for Snowmen being a subcategory of "Elemental" constructs? I'm drawing to logical conclusion that it might be, similar to how Tree bosses are Plant bosses. Ill sleep on that. And im sure we've discussed this somewhere, but is it possible to list BOTH the bosses' creature type/family and species/subspecies, wheather on the lists and/or thier respective pages? Like the Beyond: War in Kryta that I dont know how TEF managed to pull that off? ^_^ --Falconeye 05:20, 29 July 2011 (UTC)

There is no such thing as a "subcategory" or "subspecies" - and snowmen were confirmed by Andrew McLeod to be their own creature type. They are not elementals. Konig/talk 05:23, 29 July 2011 (UTC)

Might be an idea to refer the lists with single bosses directly to the article of the boss itself?--Mark, het Beest 09:36, 29 July 2011 (UTC)

Any ideas how to solve the 4 remaining categories (and any other single category bosses not-mentioned)? Im on the fence for thowing them into either a "special" List of misc. single category species bosses as Mark suggested, or merging them into the closes approximatation of what they are. --Falconeye 02:57, 4 August 2011 (UTC)

am i deleting these or wat guise -Auron 12:04, 12 August 2011 (UTC)

Delete, single foe list is not helpful to the wiki. --File:User Chieftain Alex Chieftain Signature.pngChieftain Alex 13:16, 12 August 2011 (UTC)

Any ideas how to solve the 4 remaining categories? --Falconeye 14:01, 12 August 2011 (UTC)

Solve? What is the problem? — Tennessee Ernie Ford (TEF) 15:12, 12 August 2011 (UTC)

He's referring to the legit lists with only one entry that are currently a candidate for deletion - List of snowman bosses, List of wallow bosses, List of vermin bosses, and List of skelk bosses. Though there's at least 3 additional situations - rat, moa, and incubi. Though for rat and moa, I suspect their creature type may be "animal" based on "Yule Deer and Winter Moas are animals.", or they may be "beast" based on "The hostile animals(wolves, Fenrir Spawn, etc.) belong to the same family as the Great Beasts in Nightfall." Konig/talk 21:23, 12 August 2011 (UTC)

Moa, rat, etc. and relating pages have already been moved to "Animal/Beast". --Falconeye 00:23, 13 August 2011 (UTC)

I'm not convinced that we have to list all bosses. (Although: see below for a generalized way of handing this, that would apply to other lists of lists, where one or more articles would be sparsely populated.) — Tennessee Ernie Ford (TEF) 01:40, 13 August 2011 (UTC)

One category to rule them all (those that are otherwise without lists)

I'd like to recommend that we handle species that have two or fewer bosses as follows:

1. Create a new page, List of bosses by species that serves as a start page for these lists.
2. Include a dynamically created section that lists the primary articles.
3. Include a table that serves as a catch all for all the bosses that aren't otherwise on a list (probably could make that dynamically, too, if we compromised on whether we would see all relevant data).

Proof of concept.

There are a number of other techniques that we could use for dealing with these one-of-a-kind bosses, but they are all messier. — Tennessee Ernie Ford (TEF) 21:56, 12 August 2011 (UTC)

I understand the concept, but does this really add much more than what we already have at the "Category:List of Bosses by Species" page (sorry, couldn't link it)? It seems repetitive on one hand, but on the other allows for the elimination of lists of less than 3. So I'm on the fence. Mohnzh say what? 23:19, 12 August 2011 (UTC)

This one is/should be intended to combine the lists of those with few bosses, not list all of the lists. It'll have the navbar which lists the lists, but one could then argue the nav bar is redundant with the category. :P Konig/talk 23:26, 12 August 2011 (UTC)

Thanks, Konig. I've been away from the wiki for a while and have forgotten a thing or two. Mohnzh say what? 23:53, 12 August 2011 (UTC)

I'd like to add List of phantom bosses to this list of merging lists. Konig/talk 06:34, 14 August 2011 (UTC)