Talk:The Killing Joke

The Joke Decoded

Is Qwytzlykak's text a substitution cipher? 98.210.8.185 04:34, 26 October 2010 (UTC)

"Why did the Seer chase after the Eidolon? Because time was of the essence!" 149.169.180.4 08:24, 26 October 2010 (UTC)

Wow, is that really what it says? Good job! Could you post the cipher you used? --Musha 08:48, 26 October 2010 (UTC)

Yes, I'd like to know what the guy's name is - if it isn't gibberish itself. -- Konig/talk 08:50, 26 October 2010 (UTC)

QWYTZYLKAK = ???D??W??? and the question marks are either G, J, K, P, Q, V, X or Z (the only letters not used in the joke) - So it looks like gibberish. --Manassas 09:19, 26 October 2010 (UTC)

The cipher used looks like some sort of shift in the alphabet, where vowels are doubled upon encoding. King Neoterikos 12:10, 26 October 2010 (UTC)

Y isn't doubled unless "Lsff" has been misspelled as "Lsf" --Manassas 12:59, 26 October 2010 (UTC)

Hmm....been thinking about this one and it actually looks like its been written in bork bork bork. Has anyone tried taking the quest in Bork? Might translate it to english? Although something tells me that would be far too easy. -- Salome 13:21, 26 October 2010 (UTC)

Definately not Bork as Bork has a load of vowels and this has none.... or rather .. hardly any --Manassas 13:27, 26 October 2010 (UTC)

If the vowels in the name are NOT doubled, then we have QWYTZYLKAK = IA?D??WU?U, where the unused letters are G, J, K, P, Q, V, X, Z. -dts720666 00:22, 27 October 2010 (UTC)

True but I was thinking what if its a cipher of Bork rather than a cipher of normal english? -- Salome 14:14, 26 October 2010 (UTC)

Neotrikos got it. It's a simple substitution cipher with doubled vowels.-- Pyron Sy 17:29, 26 October 2010 (UTC)

But his name doesn't fit into the same cypher. So its either a different cipher or not a cipher at all and that is really his name. --Musha 17:43, 26 October 2010 (UTC)

My first thought seeing his name is Mr. Mxyzptlk from Superman. He's not a Batman villian or character, but he is from DC still. Yukiko 14:27, 25 October 2012 (UTC)

Name origin?

There's a Batman comic/storyline called The Killing Joke. (The one where *spoiler* Barbara Gordon is paralyzed and so becomes Oracle.) Any chance this is where they got the quest name? Or maybe they both got the name from something else? Either way I suspect it's a reference to something. 86.163.215.64 10:10, 26 October 2010 (UTC)

Or maybe is called the killing joke because the boss dialogue is a crypted joke.--Sharkinu 10:21, 26 October 2010 (UTC)

There is a band called The Kiling Joke, there is a novel called The Killing Joke, There is a Monty Python scetch series revolving around a Killing Joke and there is the Batman comic called The Killing Joke. None of them seems to have anything at all linking them to this quest, thus making it impossible for us to tell which one (if any of them) has been the inspiration of the quest name. I feel we're just chasing references for the sake of chasing references if we put any of them in the notes. --Manassas 11:01, 26 October 2010 (UTC)

The initial dialogue hints at the Monty Python one actually: "I nearly died that day from laughing too hard. How I managed to survive is still a mystery." -- Konig/talk 18:10, 26 October 2010 (UTC)

After reading wikipedia article I think it's a Monthy pyton reference. I'll remove teh batman reference note--Sharkinu 19:54, 26 October 2010 (UTC)

Just for the record, that band is named after the comic.

OK, then maybe you can enlighten me further then? - How can a band formed in 1978 take their name from a comic published in 1988? As vanguard as they might have been ......Manassas 09:06, 28 October 2010 (UTC)

Decoding the code

"Lsf tqqt hsmm Emmmmx jswwemm wwrhmmx hsmm Mmqqtvvpvvg? Ommjwwkkemm hqqimm lwwe vvr hsmm mmeemmgjmm!"

Anyone got any ideas? Maybe if we work together...

Assuming capital letters are supposed to be capitalized.... and also assuming that this code is in english... it shouldnt be that tough. That is... assuming this is in english. If we could get the base language....

"Why did the Seer chase after the Eidolon? Because time was of the essence!" .. 149 already broke it ... we're just left with the guys name ... see top section. --Manassas 13:34, 26 October 2010 (UTC)

Maybe someone should put the decoded on the page.

Hoorah! -- Salome 14:15, 26 October 2010 (UTC)

Heh, my initial suspicion that the guy was a reference to Mr Mxyzptlk is obviously wrong, then ^_^ --snograt 16:44, 26 October 2010 (UTC)

Or maybe not, apparently... --snograt 05:44, 27 October 2010 (UTC)

How exactly do you decode this? An external link to the method might be worthwhile to link to as well. -Decollete 03:16, 30 October 2010 (UTC)

I might have become completely blind from all the pc-gaming over the years, but I still don't see an explanation or link to why the creature's nonsense translates into that joke. Where/what is the decoder? and how did the person find it? (and perhaps make the decoding information a bit more obvious?) 77.213.235.141 20:57, 31 October 2011 (UTC)

Nothing to do with gaming. It's a substitution cipher. Person probably found it via trial and error (there's only so many word combinations with that series of letters, with those certain capitalizations, etc.). Konig/talk 21:43, 31 October 2011 (UTC)

English

A

B

C

D

E

F

G

H

I

J

K

L

M

N

O

P

Q

R

S

T

U

V

W

X

Y

Z

Coded

W

O

J

T

MM

R

S

QQ

C

P

I

G

VV

X

E

H

KK

L

F

There is the crib.

You begin by finding the doubles that appear throughout the code; i.e. qq (appears 3x), mm (appears 14x), ww (appears 4x), vv (appears 2x), kk (appears 1x only). ee appears once, but also appears as a single so can be ruled out.

(The least common vowel is usually U, so you can probably assign U to the kk)

In the fourth word there are two sets of vowels in a row, this can only represent OO or EE, so mm must decode as either e or o.

You can make a reasonable guess here that the first word of the second sentence starts with "because" - its a joke afterall. → assign mm to e. + now you have a bunch of other letters from "because" to play with. Chieftain Alex 15:12, 25 October 2012 (UTC)

Sad

Anybody else think its sad that Qwytzlkak's just sitting around waiting for an audience, and when one finally arrives, he tells them his awesome joke, only to be killed? --Musha 17:45, 26 October 2010 (UTC)

It's kind of funny how when the Mad King tells jokes the opposite happens. 67.149.248.3 19:53, 26 October 2010 (UTC)

Sheogorath

Anyone else reminded of the Whispering Isles from Oblivion? Sheogorath, ruler of the court of madness can't exist at the same time as his rival, whose name is a string of gibberish (Jyggalag, I think). Okay, so maybe I'm reaching... -- MrSmiles 18:01, 26 October 2010 (UTC)

Shivering Isles, smilieface and yes it did me too, but it doesnt strike me as thesame deal. Because it is impossible for jigglelag and Whatshisface to be there at thesame time because they're both one person, ima say no DX DemonicFahrir 18:32, 26 October 2010 (UTC)

Reward Dialogue

I don't really pay attention to reward dialogues any more, but this one caught my eye. The emissary seems to have a slip of the tongue. He says, "...then by the next...by next year our court will rule again." By the next...what? What did he catch himself from saying? In other words, what is Anet hinting at? The next quest maybe? dts720666 00:19, 27 October 2010 (UTC)

1) For future reference, new sections go at the bottom of the page. 2) It's not really a slip of the tongue, but rather a repetition. Kind of like when someone's on the verge of crying (or is crying), they'll stutter, sometimes repeating whole words. Not saying the Emissary is crying (would be funny though!), but it's not really a slip of the tongue, as far as I can see. I think this is just an "expect more next year, the plot isn't done yet" message. -- Konig/talk 00:41, 27 October 2010 (UTC)

Thanks for the tip on placement. I'm new to this wiki thing. Regarding his dialogue, I understand that people stutter or repeat words when talking, but I work as a book editor, and it's extremely rare to find such slips in typed speech unless something was meant by the "slip." dts720666 06:03, 27 October 2010 (UTC)

Doubt it has any meaning... just three dots instead of one... which is not that uncommon...--Tenshi Samshel 17:36, 27 October 2010 (UTC)

Trivia dispute

As tempted as I might be, I'm not going to break the 1RR. Could someone please remove that Batman note? --Manassas 09:15, 28 October 2010 (UTC)

Personally, I get the feeling the name is likely referencing Batman, the ArenaNet writers being the huge geeks that they are, the name is far to close to be a coincidence. However, the ArenaNet writers being even bigger Monty Python fans (previous quest has a very clear Python reference, as do many others), they very obviously were referencing them as well. --Curse You(talk|contribs) 11:23, 28 October 2010 (UTC)

Also, in addressing what some others have brought up, I personally have never heard of the band "Killing Joke" but I have heard of (and read) the Batman comic. Admittedly, I'm not a music geek, but I'd hazard to guess that more people have heard of the Batman comic than the band. So it's unlikely that ArenaNet intended to reference or even knew of the band. --Curse You(talk|contribs) 11:42, 28 October 2010 (UTC)

I would never advocate that the name came from any of the mentioned sources. What concerns me is that "we" tend to seek (and thus guess) more or less obscure references left, right and center on absolutely everything in the game. (If you read the "Trivia" section on my profile you can see my own feeble attempt at sarcasm over this fact and see what I mean.) In this particular quest name, I can see NOTHING at all that points towards the mentioned Batman novel, except for the (possibly) coincidal clash of names. Wouldn't it be likely, that the developers actually came up with the name by themselves since the quest IS all about a creature being killed because it tells jokes AND that a killer joke or dying from laughter are well known concepts? --Manassas 12:24, 28 October 2010 (UTC)

The other trivia notes that's not about the Monty python skits are likely just coincidence when it comes to having the same name as other things like Manassas said. Generally "references" have to be more than just having similar or even the same name, it also have to be a reference in context as well. There doesn't appear to be any similarity between this quest and other "killing joke" references except for the monty python skit. Death from laughter is a common concept. The reason why the Monty python skit reference should be kept is because there are parallels between this quest and various unique elements in the Monty python skit.--Lania 16:52, 28 October 2010 (UTC)

After looking, I see that the Monty Python reference is likely, but I think that a reference with an exact text match should also be kept. Keep both references. -- Jrhsk8 talk 02:36, 29 October 2010 (UTC)

But then we wouldn't have two, but at least 4 "possible" references. 3 of them based exclusively on (coincidal?) text matches. Following that logic, the quest The Great Escape should have at least 17 references listed in stead of the one (correct) one.--Manassas 07:30, 29 October 2010 (UTC)

If you look into it (perhaps too deeply), you notice that they chose to put the encounter in one of the few "night zones" Vehtendi Valley. They could have put it anywhere they wanted, but they chose the one where it's night. Again, I may be reading too deep into this, but Batman is known to be primarily active during the night, hence another link to the comic. --Curse You(talk|contribs) 01:25, 30 October 2010 (UTC)

You're looking into it too deep.24.118.99.65 01:19, 31 October 2010 (UTC)

At the moment, we are unsure as to which reference it is. However more of the quest does seem to coincide with a Monty Python reference and not a batman reference. Saying that I personally don't feel both references should stay. Why doesn't someone just ask one of the live team if the name is a reference to something or not? -- Salome 21:42, 31 October 2010 (UTC)

See Feedback talk:Emily Diehl#Trivia for The Killing Joke. Waiting for an answer from Emily. --Silver Edge 00:40, 2 November 2010 (UTC)

I've actually never seen the Monty Python skit people are referencing. I've only seen The Holy Grail some number of years ago. The quest was just named what it was because it describes what's going on. After looking up the skit, yeah, I can definitely see the similarities, but they weren't intentional. Sorry to be a downer. XD John Stumme 22:49, 7 November 2010 (UTC)

Oh no, definately not a downer - quite the opposite actually ;) --Manassas 11:00, 8 November 2010 (UTC)