| EOTN is a great expansion and all, but I was expecting more out of Gwen & Prophecies Hero's reunion. I just thought there would be more to it, but PH had absolutely no reaction whatsoever to seeing her again, no reaction to finding out what she had been through or that she was even still alive, something PH likely wouldn't have been certain of at all. I understand not everyone did anything with her in pre-Searing Ascalon, but for those who did and who kept the tapestry shred, the reunion should have been a little more in depth, I think. Outside the opening line and that one quest shred-holders can do with her, there is no indication at all that she and PH ever knew each other before EOTN. Not even in the Wintersday quest, where in fact Gwen isn't quite so alone as she thinks if the player's character is a PH who did her tapestry shred quest. Because PH is, in that case, someone she knows in the present who she also knew in pre-Searing Ascalon. And there are very few people she can say that about. Yet that's never acknowledged at all. It's as if it never happened.
Given that their friendship meant enough to each of them to safeguard their gifts to each other - Gwen by burying her flute so she wouldn't lose it and PH by keeping the tapestry shred for all those years - one would think that the relationship would have gotten a little more attention in EOTN. Just enough that it would make her interactions with PH distinct from those she would have with any other kind of character. Because, I think, that's how it would realistically be. Not all the time, of course, but here and there could have been subtle nods outside the quest - if the quest was done - that their old friendship had happened, that it existed. Such as in her garden, since a PH who kept the shred would be well aware of her love of the red iris flowers, and she would know that PH knew (because PH gave her flowers back in pre-Searing Ascalon, and seeing PH again in the present would bring those memories back to her), so she wouldn't make her observations about them in quite the same way as she would to someone who didn't already know that fact. As well as better initial dialogue between them, something that more realistically portrays a reunion of two old friends after so many long years.
It just makes a good story, old friends separated by time, distance, and war who finally find each other again many years later. Each of them has changed, each of them has known their own struggles and pain, but neither had ever forgotten the other. And together they help each other lay the demons of their pasts to rest, that they might build the future they want, the life they want, for themselves, each other, and their people. And to better illustrate what I'm saying, I've done some sample dialogue revisions of my own, building on what's already there and simply adding a few lines here and revising a line or two there. And in the case of the Wintersday quest, giving some of Thackeray's lines to the player character, since the gift is as much from him or her as it is from Keiran. Otherwise our character wouldn't have gone through the effort of helping make it.
I did add two extra scenes to round out the story a little, one for after the tapestry shred quest and one for after taking Gwen to the underworld to see her mother, since as it stands now she never once thanks your character for doing so. The latter scene is for any character, regardless of which campaign they came from, while the former is one only available to those who finished the tapestry shred quest. Most of the dialogue in the rest of the scenes is a mix of old and a little new, with the exception of the intro dialogue, which I thought could have been done much better than it was in the game. I also added alternate epilogue dialogue and a couple extra hero quotes for Gwen for a PH with the tapestry shred or its related quest. PH stands for Prophecies Hero and PC stands for Player Character.
Gwen wouldn't have become a popular character with an entire expansion pack named after her if a considerable amount of people hadn't already spent time with her in pre getting her items and letting her follow them around. Would you treat someone, even someone you didn't know that well, like a stranger if you had already met them before, even if it was a long time ago? I doubt that. The continuity in regards to that part of Gwen's story is broken because there is no indication outside her opening lines and that one quest that she and a Prophecies hero ever met. Even though they did, if your character in EOTN is a PH with a tapestry shred. There should have been references outside that quest to the fact that they already knew each other. But there weren't. And in the book you fill for EOTN, your character writes about her as though he or she had never met her before EOTN, even if said character was PH with a tapestry shred, in which case he or she did meet her before and should have written about her a little differently to reflect that. What I'm asking for, in short, is for the continuity to be repaired, if at all possible. Thanks!
[Introductory dialogue]
- PH: Gwen...
- Gwen: Yes?
- PH: Do you remember me?
- Gwen: I... I don't know. You look so familiar, but...
- PH (shows her the tapestry shred): Maybe this will help.
- Gwen: Is this...? It can't be... <Character Name>? Is... is that you?
- PH (nods): Yes. Yes it is.
- Gwen: I thought I'd never see you again. I thought... I thought everyone I knew back then was gone.
- PH: Not everyone.
- Gwen: You're right, old friend. No matter how much they try, the Charr can't take everything from us. There will always be something they can't touch. Or someone...
- PH: How did you come to be here, Gwen?
- Gwen: I was captured by the Charr just hours after the Searing. Last year, I finally escaped and found my way here.
- PH: You... you were their prisoner?
- Gwen:: Yes, for seven years. It... it's not something I like to think about. But we can talk more later. Come, the Vanguard needs us now.
[In the garden with Gwen and a Tyrian character with a tapestry shred before completing Then and Now, Here and There quest]
- Gwen: Red iris flowers. You gave me so many back then, remember?
- PH: Yes. You wanted to have a whole vase full of them.
- Gwen: That's right. I've always loved these flowers, you know. That's why I keep this garden, although I don't know exactly why.
- Gwen: Perhaps to keep a little of our homeland alive in these harsh lands?
- PH: You've done a good job of it, Gwen.
- Gwen: Thank you, old friend. You know, it's amazing to me that something so fragile can blossom here, in this earth.
- Gwen: When I look at this garden, I see what I lost, and what we all lost. But when that iris flower blooms, I see hope.
- Gwen: If these flowers survive, so will we.
- Gwen: The greatest forest can become cinders with a tiny spark. The Charr knew this, and they sought to stamp out our memories of home when :they seared Ascalon.
- Gwen: But what those beasts do not realize is that new life will always spring and, like a plant shoot, I am still standing. Still fighting for a life beyond this.
- Gwen: Someday, Ascalon's fields will bloom again, and the scent of smoke in my nostrils will be the scent of clean air.
- Gwen: People will come to the lush congresses of our homeland and they will know that the blood of heroes allowed the new life to spring forth.
- Gwen: That is the future I will have. But now, we have work still to do. Come, the journey is long.
[During Then and Now, Here and There quest]
- Gwen: These ruins were once a great temple. I think that's why the Charr used it as a temporary prison. Every passing second, our presence was a reminder of a destroyed past and a denied future, built on top of a monument to our broken faith.
- Gwen: I have never known a creature more hateful than the Charr. Had I not escaped from them, would be dead by now. Or worse, a prisoner.
- Gwen: Before the Ebon Vanguard found me, I was little more than a scavenger. Although I had an empty stomach, my mind was filled with thoughts of vengeance.
- Gwen: Now that I find myself here, though, these broken pillars do not seem as tall and frightening as they once did.
- Gwen: What is it, old friend? You look troubled.
- PH: It's just... hard to think about what you must have gone through here. What it must have been like.
- Gwen: I know. I hate them for what they did to me, to all of us.
- PH: You've changed, Gwen.
- Gwen: I suppose I have. I had to. They didn't give me any choice. But—wait, do you hear that? There are people here! If the Charr are still using this place to hold prisoners, then we must free them!
[Finding Daghar]
- Daghar: So predictable... Threaten their holes, and the little mice scamper out.
- Gwen: Silence, you thrice-damned monster! I will have your heart in compensation for the one you broke!
- Daghar: Ah, the young mouse returns. And not alone, I see. Yes, I recognize you, <Character Name>. You have quite the reputation among my people. Now I will end it.
- PH: Try it, demon. You'll fail. Badly.
- Daghar: Now I understand your anger, Charr-killer. Shall I tell you how the young mouse screamed? How she cowered before me?
- PH: All I want to hear from you is silence!
[After defeating Daghar]
- Gwen: As a child, I found myself haunted by his remorseless eyes staring into my own... and then nothingness. When the world appeared to me again, I was seeing it for the first time as a prisoner. For all of the horrors I witnessed while under the captivity of the Charr, few compare to the murderous visage of the one who took me from everything that I knew. That was Dahgar.
- Gwen: You will torment me no longer, demon. As you have taken from me, I have taken from you. A life for a life.
- Gwen: But I must apologize... I did not mean to drag you here for my own personal vendetta.
- PH: It's alright. He deserved to be punished for what he did to you.
- Gwen: It means a lot to me to hear you say that, old friend. Thank you.
- PH: I'm glad I could help you settle things. But, him finding you that day, it... it never should have happened. It wouldn't have happened, if...
- Gwen: If what?
- PH: No, it... it's nothing.
- Gwen: Then we should move on. There is something I mean to give you, but I had to see the safety of our homeland first. Come, we go to the ruins of Ashford... to my old home.
[After kneeling in Ashford]
- Gwen: Do you remember this? It is the flute you gave me all those years ago. I lost the broken pieces of my first flute in the Searing, and did not want to lose your gift.
- Gwen: I hid it here in the hopes that it would not be lost to me after the Searing.
- PH: I must have run through this place a dozen times back then, but I never knew this was here.
- Gwen: As you allowed me to keep this tapestry shred, allow me to return to you the flute, as a sign of our friendship. We have lost a great deal, but some things will endure. We will see this war through to its end. We will bring peace to these lands, and we will see them as beautiful as they once were.
- PH: Gwen, I...
- Gwen: Yes? What is it?
- PH: Nevermind. We shouldn't linger here.
- Gwen: You're right, old friend. There are many battles ahead. We should see Duke Barradin in Piken Square, and deliver him the news of the Charr's defeat. After that, we should return to the north.
- Gwen: The Ebon Vanguard... and the future that we need to forge, are waiting for us!
[On entering the Hall of Monuments after completing Then and Now, Here and There quest]
- Gwen: You've been quiet ever since we returned from Ascalon, old friend. Is everything alright?
- PH: I... I don't know. But I'd like to talk, if you're not too busy.
- Gwen: Of course. But why don't we go to my garden, just the two of us? I'm sure you'll feel more comfortable that way.
- PH: Yes, that sounds good. I'll meet you there.
[On entering the garden with only Gwen in party after the above scene]
- Gwen (walks over and sits among the flowers): Come over here and sit down with me, old friend.
- PH (after sitting next to her): I'm starting to understand why you like it here.
- Gwen: Yes, it's very peaceful. And quiet. A lot like the Hall. So, what's on your mind?
- PH: I keep thinking about what you said back in Ascalon, about what happened to you. And I... I can't help feeling responsible somehow.
- PH: If I hadn't left when I did, if I had stayed a little longer, I could have stopped Daghar from capturing you. I could have saved you.
- Gwen: How? How could you have known what would happen? How could any of us have known? We had no warning, no idea that everything we knew, everything we loved, was about to be destroyed. You had your duty, and even as a child I understood that.
- Gwen: So I never blamed you. Not once.
- PH: I still... I still wish I could have been there for you.
- Gwen: But you were, old friend. You were.
- PH: What do you mean?
- Gwen: Ever since you came here, I... I've started to find myself again, little by little. You brought back to me a piece of myself I thought I'd lost forever, a reminder of who I once was. And who I might still be again one day.
- Gwen: We can't change what happened back then, but I'm beginning to understand that it's today that matters. And the future. And I'm glad you're here with me now to be a part of it. So please forgive yourself, old friend.
- PH: I... Maybe I can, after all, Gwen. Thank you.
- Gwen: You're welcome.
- PH: Was that a smile I just saw?
- Gwen: Yeah, I guess it was, wasn't it?
- PH: It suits you.
- Gwen: Thank you. It's still hard to do it much, but... I'll try. Anyway, we should be going. We still have many battles to fight before our struggle is over.
[In the Hall of Monuments after taking Gwen to see Sarah]
- Gwen: Thank you, my friend, for taking me to see my mother. It means so much to me.
- PC: I'm glad I could help.
- Gwen: I think, for the first time, I can finally start to move on with my life. To see the future, rather than linger on the past. Mother was right.
- Gwen: My friend, I know it wasn't an easy journey to make, to go into that hellish place. And you didn't have to bring me along.
- PC: Yes, I did.
- Gwen: But... but why?
- PC: You were in pain, Gwen. I knew how much you missed her. And so if there was any chance she was there, no matter how small, I wanted you to be able to see her again.
- Gwen: I... I don't know what to say, except... thank you. Thank you so much!
- Gwen: And... if you're ever in need, I'll be there. I promise. Whatever happens, I'll always be your friend. Always.
[Wintersday quest, if non-Tyrian or character doesn't have the tapestry shred or its related quest]
- Gwen: A Wintersday gift...? Wait! This... this is my family's crest.
- Gwen: What gives you the right to do this?
- Thackeray: Peace, Gwen. There's no need to be upset.
- Gwen: Of course there is! The symbol on this pendant...”
- PC: Represents both your past and your future. Your memories will always be with you, but you don't have to be trapped in them. Life must go on... and so can you.
- Gwen: Why? Why go to so much trouble? I... I didn't ask for this!
- PC: There was no need to ask, Gwen. Everyone deserves a little happiness, even you.
- Gwen: A little happiness...? But I...
- Thackeray: Wintersday is a time to spend with family. We may all have different blood and different backgrounds, but the Ebon Vanguard is your family. We care about you.
- Gwen: My family? I don't have a... No. You're right. I guess I do. Thank you, both of you. Thank you, my friend. And thank you, Lt. Thackeray.
- Thackeray: Please, call me Keiran.
[Wintersday quest, if character is a Tyrian with a tapestry shred or its related quest]
- Gwen: A Wintersday gift...? Wait! This... this is my family's crest.
- Gwen: Just because we spent some time together when I was a child doesn't mean you can go against my wishes, <Character Name>.
- Gwen: What gives you the right to do this?
- Thackeray: Peace, Gwen. There's no need to be upset.
- Gwen: Of course there is! The symbol on this pendant...”
- PH: Represents both your past and your future. Your memories will always be with you, but you don't have to be trapped in them. Life must go on... and so can you.
- Gwen: Why? Why go to so much trouble? I... I didn't ask for this!
- PH: There was no need to ask, Gwen. Everyone deserves a little happiness, even you.
- Gwen: A little happiness...? But I...
- Thackeray: Wintersday is a time to spend with family. We may all have different blood and different backgrounds, but the Ebon Vanguard is your family. We care about you.
- PH: We didn't know each other well back in Ascalon all those years ago, Gwen, but we still became friends. And we still are. We're friends... and family.
- Thackeray: Exactly. All of us here are your family. We just want you to be happy.
- Gwen: My family? I don't have a... No. You're right. I guess I do. Thank you, both of you. Thank you, old friend. And thank you, Lt. Thackeray.
- Thackeray: Please, call me Keiran.
[Tyrian epilogue, if tapestry shred quest finished]
- “We've come a long way together, haven't we, old friend? In spite of everything that's happened, I'm glad I followed you that day. Someday, we'll take our homeland back from the Charr. Someday.”
[Extra hero quotes - Tyrian, if tapestry shred quest finished]
- “This place reminds me of home. Remember how green everything used to be?”
- “It's nice being able to travel together again. Brings back memories.”
I hope you'll at least consider doing something like this, Linsey, although I don't expect what I've written to be used as is. I know Anet has its own writers and they can come up with something of their own to convey the same things. I just provided these revisions as an example, a place to start. From what I've seen, there has been a bit more positive than negative response as to how I've seen people react to me talking about making changes to EotN to better acknowledge Gwen and PH's prior meeting and old friendship. I'll list the names of folks who've commented on wiki, in-game, and on GW forums so you can get an idea of what it looks like. And I while I know this is a small sample size, it's does go across three different places so I think it's a fairly decent representation of the kind of support my idea has in general.
In favor:
- Axwind (wiki/Guru/GWO)
- Arduinna (wiki/Guru)
- Mervil (wiki)
- Tender Wolf (in-game/Guru)
- Operative 14 (Guru)
- timeoffire45 (wiki)
- Boro (wiki)
- Gwmaster (Guru)
- Taco Fiend Taco (Guru)
- DragonRogue (Guru)
- kazjun (Guru)
- raspberry jam (GWO)
Against:
- SkyyHigh (Guru/GWO)
- MagmaRed (Guru)
- Azazel the Assassin (wiki/Guru/GWO)
- Dr. Jones (Guru)
- MithranArkanere (Guru)
- DarkFlame (Guru)
- Doomfrost (Guru)
- Sjeng (GWO)
- Rose of Kali (wiki)
- Mini Me (wiki)
Neutral:
- Draxynnic (Guru)
- satomz (GWO)
- Erring Ryft (GWO)
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