User talk:Bobby Stein/Archive talk 3

TTH interview

I enjoyed the interview. Thanks for taking the time to do it. I really liked your thoughts on player's time given to reading walls of quest text. It is really nice to know that a dev is that in touch with the player base, instead of one that wants to create a novel. I think one of the problems with walls of text is also that players doing the quest for the first time and entering this new world probably don't know when the quest is worth reading and will culminate through a quest chain (connected or not) in to some sort of epic... or whether it is a vignette that will not expound in such a manner. Guild Wars is really lucky that players take the time to put so much quest text onto the wiki. Anyway, thanks again, and I hope you guys "rise to the surface" soon. =) --Ravious 00:16, 12 November 2008 (UTC)

I wish I could've revealed GW2 details, but we're not ready to divulge anything new just yet. I do appreciate all of the positive feedback and constructive criticism I've been reading on the various message boards, though. We are aware that fans want an update, but we don't want to discuss or showcase any details that may change, evolve, or get cut later on. That only leads to disappointment. Thanks for understanding. Bobby Stein 03:33, 14 November 2008 (UTC)

check your

email please! -- WoB 03:51, 21 November 2008 (UTC)

Thank you for the note. We're not allowed to accept submissions of this type for legal reasons, I'm afraid. Take care. Bobby Stein 15:56, 16 December 2008 (UTC)

Getting Started

Howdy, I am interested in any info I can get about joining the video game industry. I went to school for Game Design and graduated from ITT Tech. I am not looking for a job (although one would be nice), but rather a chance for an internship. I have worked 70 hour weeks for the past two years to save up money so I can focus on Game Design and not have to worry about a side job for a year or so. I really enjoy modeling, rigging, writing and coding. I am actually working with several friends to create our own level using the Torque game engine.

If you have any advice, and I mean ANY - I'd appreciate a chance to talk with you.

Please hit me up with anything you may have,

Dustin Cochran dustin at digital-epiphany-designs.com

Some of my work is located on my website: digital-epiphany-designs.com

Hi. We've been pretty slammed lately, which is why I haven't checked the wiki in some time. You can post some specific questions here and I'll try to answer them in a timely fashion. You might want to check out the book Game Design: The Art and Business of Creating Games by Bob Bates. That was one of the tomes I read religiously before seeking a job in the industry. There's a lot of great advice in there. Bobby Stein 15:51, 16 December 2008 (UTC)

Hey Bobby, I must say, thanks for replying. I do understand that you are really busy as are the others. You are the only one, however, that has actually responded out of around 10 people's wikis I posted on :) So hats off to ya!

I will make some of these quick as to try to not take much of your time.

1. Does your company offer any internship programs? I find it really hard to get into the industry seeing as every place seems to require 2 years in the buisness and 2 or 3 titles shipped.

Yes, we have an internship program. Most industry jobs require several years experience and a couple of shipped titles, but teams occasionally hire candidates right out of school. We've taken plenty of qualified graduates from a variety of universities, colleges, and game development programs over the years. If a candidate is passionate about games (especially ours) and comes to us with a solid portfolio we'll take a look. Bobby Stein 14:01, 17 December 2008 (UTC)

2. How did you start? Did you camp out in front of NC Soft? Basically, I am wondering what I need to do to get the experience needed to get into the field. This is why I am just seeking internships but seem to have trouble finding those as well.

I drafted a paragraph on my user page of my "breaking in" story. I hope you (and others) find it useful. Bobby Stein 14:01, 17 December 2008 (UTC)

3. Do you work in association with Carbine Studios or are they just third party contract work? They are amongst one of the many companies I have been looking at. It also seems like they have some job openings (if their website is up to date).

NCsoft owns Carbine Studios. You can find an updated list of job openings for every NCsoft studio at their PlayNC.com web site. Best of luck. Bobby Stein 14:01, 17 December 2008 (UTC)

~Dustin

I fixed the PlayNC link. Internal links use bars after the URLs, while external links use spaces. -- Gordon Ecker (talk) 01:36, 18 December 2008 (UTC)

Thanks. It was around 6 a.m. when I wrote the reply so I made a few boo boos. Bobby Stein 04:28, 18 December 2008 (UTC)

One last thing if you don't mind. I'm not sure if you would know the answer to this seeing as it is more of a programming question. What Game Engine do you use? I am assuming it is something probably proprietary. If it is proprietary, do you know what scripting language it was created in? Thanks for answering my questions btw! ~Dustin

Our game engine is proprietary. To the best of my knowledge it is written in C++, like many other game engines. It's mentioned in a Leipzig interview with Izzy, Mike Z., and Martin. Bobby Stein 16:28, 23 December 2008 (UTC)

Exuro Flatus

I'm not sure if this is the right place for this (as with many things... your userspace directed me here for questions, and I have a question, so go figure...) but I have something to ask of whoever came up with the name for Exuro Flatus: what was the Latin translation you guys were going for? At this point, it's gotten faintly ridiculous, since his name CAN mean - loosely translated, mind you - "Burning and Blasting" as well as "I Burn the Wind," "Burning Wind," and "Burning Blast" to name a few. There are also more colorful - even looser - translations which can properly arrive at the conclusion that the name means "I Burn Farts." As I said, it's getting mildly ridiculous. As such, the purpose of my previous question is to END the debate as to what this monster's name REALLY means. Any insight you can offer would be great! Thanks! --Timeoffire45 19:16, 18 December 2008 (UTC)

My Latin is pretty rusty, but I'm pretty sure the intended meaning from the designer and/or writer responsible was something along the lines of "Burning Blast." Question made me laugh pretty hard, though. Bobby Stein 13:34, 9 January 2009 (UTC)

How to...

First off, you guys have done incredible with Guild Wars. But now, on to my actual question.

How do you get into the writing aspects for video games in general? Thanks to several teachers, I am doing a lot of creative writing now, and I just wonder what I would need to do to be able to write storylines/scripts in the video game industry. Any info/opinion/input would be greatly appreciated. :DTaka Ragranok 23:53, 24 January 2009 (UTC)

Landing a game writing job is a mix of luck, networking, and know-how. I'll post a list of helpful tips to get you started soon. Bobby Stein 16:51, 4 February 2009 (UTC)

I'll add to this list as I have time. I hope these bits of information help you. Bobby Stein 15:39, 8 March 2009 (UTC)

• Get published. Many game writers transition into game development by taking the journalism route. Some notable examples include Erik Wolpaw, Chet Faliszek, and Greg Kasavin. I believe the reasons for this are two-fold. Good game journalists must understand not only the design side of the industry, but also business and development. Journalists also meet a lot of developers in their travels. Networking is essential. I wrote freelance for about a year before landing my first industry job. Patience and self-discipline are essential to promoting yourself and your work. Find some indie gaming sites and pitch your articles. Reviews are a dime a dozen. If you really want to stand out, score some developer interviews or write a few editorials on timely topics. If you're a creative writer, find yourself an agent who will submit your short stories or novels for publishing.
• Understand game design. The writers at ArenaNet are part of the design team, but aside from Ree Soesbee and Jeff Grubb, we don't design in the traditional sense. Quests and missions are crafted by content designers, who then collaborate with writers and artists who act as a sounding board. We'll ask questions about why events happen a certain way, if they make sense within the context of the world and story, and what the general tone should be. Our input rarely changes how something in the game works, but how it feels. It's important for writers to understand the limitations of technology, how content fits into overall design, and how our words are used in context.
• If you're really interested in game development, prove it. Talk is cheap. Prove you've got the chops to write stories and dialogue for games by making your own. Many titles ship with content editing tools that allow you to build your own quests. Build a Neverwinter Nights 2 module or Fallout 3 quest chain. Collaborate with other aspiring developers on a project. Put your heart into it. Polish it until you're proud of your work. Share it with others and process the feedback. It'll give you an idea of what professional game development is like.
• Don't waste your time submitting ideas to game companies. Your time is precious, so use it wisely. Development studios, including ArenaNet, don't accept unsolicited materials. Don't bother sending in your ideas because we're restricted from reading them for legal reasons. Either make the game on your own or save it for when you've established yourself as a developer and you have the resources to make it happen.
• Consider an internship. Many studios, including ArenaNet, offer paid internships. You can learn a lot from a semester "on the job."

Erik Wolpaw, Chet Faliszek, and Greg Kasavin Is it bad that I don't recognise any of them? Backsword 02:51, 9 March 2009 (UTC)

Nah. Writers are the unsung designers of the industry, so I'm not surprised those names don't ring a bell. Both Erik and Chet wrote for Old Man Murray before eventually writing for Valve. Greg was the Editor-in-Chief at GameSpot before he joined Electronic Arts as a producer.

Question/Feedback

Two of the most interesting NPC's in GW are Gwen and Anton. While the mystery of Gwens fate kept lots of us theorizing for years, her fate was revealed in EOTN. Then Anton made an appearance. He seems to look a lot like one of the pre-searing npc's (can't think of his name) and seems to have a bit of mystery surrounding him. While I understand that you can't comment on GW2, I'd like to encourage you to fit in dialogue that reveals some of the ultimate fate of these NPC's or others such as Eve, Cynn, Mhenlo, etc. Did the Charr finally get them? Did they eventually return to Ascalon?

I'm honestly looking forward to GW2 most because of the writing. Despite limitations in delivery of dialogue (because it is a game afterall), aNet still managed to accomplish some very effective and memorable things. One that comes to mind is the dialogue and journey from Augury Rock in the Crystal Desert to view the mesa in Skyward Reach with Mhenlo, Cynn, etc. The slow movement coupled with the dialogue, mostly due to the dialogue, made it seem very etherical. The timing and content of the comments made by these NPC's really did a lot to communicate the severity and magnitude of the Assension task the player faced.

From what we currently know of GW2, it seems like there's going to be plenty of opportunity for the player to confront a much more varied scope of emotion than what GW1 was capable of. Especially for returning players, GW2 will present players with a dramatically altered game world. Just thinking of the Dwarves, they played such a major role in GW1. While the Deldrimore dwarves are not longer of flesh and blood, player encounters with the few survivors in deep catacombs could easily be an exploitable opportunity to draw on nostalgia and attachment, much in the way that pre-searing seems to have been included in GW1 to create some sense of a bond between players and post-searing Ascalon. What about the Stone Summit? Were they changed too?

Given that the information provided to us so far about GW2 indicates that the game world will be much more robust, much more open-ended and much more alive, I suppose that the real feedback or input that I have is that I hope that aNet chooses to include plenty of secondary or tertiary or, perhaps, flat out optional aspects that simply relate to the changed game world and lore - much more lore than what is included in GW1. Pkohler01 02:37, 9 March 2009 (UTC)

Hi. I briefly mentioned GW1 connections in a Ten Ton Hammer interview. Unfortunately, I can't go into further detail just yet. Thanks for being patient. Bobby Stein 16:21, 16 March 2009 (UTC)

Hi Bobby. Thanks for the link! No further details needed, I respect your NDA (said as someone bound by several of them). I really just wanted to seize the opportunity to speak up in encouragement of inclusion of some of the things in GW1 that I really loved. From the sound of it, I'm sure GW2 will take it all to the next level! Pkohler01 05:50, 31 March 2009 (UTC)

Some thoughts about EOTN

While EotN is good and all, I was a bit disappointed at how the backstory between Prophecies Hero and Gwen was handled. It seems like their interaction could have been done a little better, and their old friendship should have been acknowledged at least a little bit outside of the tapestry shred quest, if you completed it.

It wouldn't take much to fix, just a few changes and additions to the already existing dialogue. And to be fair to characters from other campaigns, bits of dialogue such as a couple extra hero quotes and the epilogue lines, for instance, could be made to be different depending on which campaign you came from, to give the experience of the expansion a little different feel depending on where your character comes from.

[Tyrian epilogue, if tapestry shred quest finished]

“We've come a long way together, haven't we, old friend? In spite of everything that's happened, I'm glad I followed you that day. Someday, we'll take our homeland back from the Charr. Someday.”

[Extra hero quotes - Tyrian, if tapestry shred quest finished]

“This place reminds me of home. Remember how green everything used to be?”

“It's nice being able to travel together again. Brings back memories.”

Again, this is just an example of what could be done. And as you can see, the additions and changes aren't all that expansive. They just build on what's already there. So it shouldn't be too hard to do. I know I've added extra lines for Prophecies Hero in some places, but I think that could be done with pop-up dialogue and emotes just like it is with NPCS. Or maybe a conversation box for PH and Gwen's initial dialogue. And for those who've already completed Gwen's quest, I'm sure it could be re-enabled somehow so those who want to do it again to see the changes can do so. Please consider this, if you will, because I know I'm not the only one who would like to see this part of the story done better. Others feel the same way. I guess it just bothered me that our character, if he or she had the tapestry shred, had absolutely no reaction to finding out Gwen was still alive, no reaction to finding out what happened to her. It just doesn't make any sense. Basically, I just think their reunion could have been done a lot better is all.

Also, I'm just curious, do you have plans for Gwen and Thackeray? Or was that just special holiday thing that won't affect the larger Guild Wars story? Because some people would prefer to decide for themselves what happens to the characters in the time between GW1 and GW2. One other thing. I don't know if you realized this, but there is at least one person Gwen knows in the EOTN that she also knew in Ascalon before the Searing, if players got to EOTN from Tyria - Prophecies Hero. They have a shared past, shared memories, a connection that makes them friends in a way different from others. Yet in the Wintersday quest, as well as a few places elsewhere, this was never acknowledged. I understand that not everyone comes to EOTN from Tyria, but for those who do, recognizing this would be a nice touch. Thanks for your consideration, and I hope you'll keep what I've said here in mind.

Thinking again about the relationship between Gwen and Prophecies Hero, it seems like, if done right, the story around it could be something really special, really good. Old friends separated by time, distance, and war who have found each other again after so many years. Each has changed, each has grown older and gone through their own struggles, but they never forgot about each other and always hoped that someday, somehow, they might find each other again. It's a little embarassing to say this, but in the case of a male PH, it would make a really good love story. It doesn't seem too difficult to believe that the renewal of their old friendship plus everything they go through together in EOTN and the Wintersday quest could later lead to romance, something Guild Wars has thus far been sadly lacking. I never thought the age difference between the player character and Gwen was all that large, no more than 6-8 years at most, so I doubt it would be much of an issue.

A single extra quest could tell this story, and to be fair to non-Tyrian characters, they could have a similar quest for the same outcome. For male characters it would lead to romance, for females it would be a more sisterly relationship. There should probably be some prerequisites for it to appear, since it wouldn't make sense for it to happen right away. Maybe finishing EOTN and doing both Gwen's quests (for Tyrian characters) or just Fire and Pain (for non-Tyrians) as well as taking her to see her mother in the Underworld and having her in your party as a hero for a certain amount of time in the game, whatever you think would work. Collectively, all together, I think that having done all of that for her and with her would really endear her to the player's character, and thus it wouldn't take much after that to nudge things from friendship to love, in the case of a male character. But that's just how I saw it. Doing the Wintersday quest could possibly cut the time requirement for having her with you as a hero in your party, and once the romantic/sisterly quest is done, there could be a small buff or something that would always be in place whenever she's adventuring with the player's character as a hero. Just a minor buff, nothing more. And perhaps there could be other quests for player characters to romance other human heroes, though obviously only one at a time. Once one is accepted, the others can't be, since a character obviously wouldn't be wooing more than one other character at once.

Thanks for listening, and I hope you do some of this stuff, as it would add a lot, I think.

--Axwind 18:33, 17 March 2009 (UTC)

Thank you for the thoughtful post. Please create a wiki account and I'll reply when I have a free moment. Bobby Stein 16:23, 16 March 2009 (UTC)

I've created my account, thanks for responding. I was thinking, another place that the dialogue could be tweaked to better acknowledge the old friendship between Gwen and a PH with a tapestry shred would be in her garden. Since a PH with a tapestry shred would already know about her love of the flowers, and she would know that (because seeing the PH again would bring back those memories of her time with PH in pre-Searing Ascalon where PH gave her some flowers), I think her conversation about them in the garden would be a little different with her old friend than it would be with a character who didn't already know about the flowers. And also, the garden seems like it would be a good place for her and PH to talk about their shared past, about being separated by the Searing and about any lingering regret PH might have about his or her course of action that fateful day (sort of what's in my example dialogue revision for the tapestry shred quest, but perhaps such a conversation would be better if it was just between them in the garden and not with a whole party standing nearby while they're all still in Ascalon).

About Gwen and Thackeray, pairing them together doesn't seem to make a lot of sense since they barely know each other and Thackeray's only in EOTN for Wintersday and was never there before that. It seems to me that, if she was going to get together with anyone, a male PC would be a better choice given everything they've been through together. If anything, I think the Wintersday quest would make her feel closer to the player character than Thackeray, since the PC did all the work and was the one who actually gave her the pendant. And just out of curiosity, I was wondering how Thackeray got Gwen's family crest in the first place. Ashford is destroyed, and she must have lost her old dress a long time ago. So where did he find the design? And it would have been nice if the player character could have said those lines to her at the end instead of Thackeray, since the PC does know her better, after all. I don't get why our characters have to be silent all the time outside of cutscenes and accepting quests. It isn't realistic.

I just thought there would be more to the reunion between Gwen and PH, but PH had absolutely no reaction whatsoever to seeing her again, no reaction to finding out what she had been through or that she was even still alive, something PH likely wouldn't have been certain of at all. I understand not everyone did anything with her in pre-Searing Ascalon, but for those who did and who kept the tapestry shred, the reunion should have been a little more in depth, I think. Outside that one quest shred-holders can do with her, there is no indication at all that she and PH ever knew each other before EOTN. Not even in the Wintersday quest, where in fact Gwen isn't quite so alone as she thinks if the player's character is a PH who did her tapestry shred quest. Because PH is, in that case, someone she knows in the present who she also knew in pre-Searing Ascalon. A good friend from her past who is also in her present. And there are very few people she can say that about. Almost none. Yet that's never acknowledged at all. It's as if it never happened.

Given that their friendship meant enough to each of them to safeguard their gifts to each other - Gwen by burying her flute so she wouldn't lose it and PH by keeping the tapestry shred for all those years - one would think that the relationship would have gotten a little more attention in EOTN. Just enough that it would make her interactions with PH distinct from those she would have with any other kind of character. Because, I think, that's how it would realistically be. Not all the time, of course, but here and there could have been subtle nods outside the quest - if the quest was done - that their old friendship had happened, that it existed.

I hope you'll at least consider doing some stuff like what I've said in these two posts. A lot of people who played Prophecies grew attached to the relationship between PH and Gwen and hoped for a better reunion in EOTN than what they got. Please see if there's a way you guys can do something about this, in some way or other. If not revisions to the existing dialogue, then something else added to EOTN for PH characters who finished the tapestry shred quest. Something to give that relationship between PH and Gwen the kind of resolution and acknowledgment that a lot of folks do want but which they don't feel the existing quest and intro dialogue between the two provides.

--Axwind 22:33, 16 March 2009 (UTC)

Just wanted to add, I was browsing the wiki and stumbled upon the page for the Prenuptial Disagreement quest. So it looks like gender-specific quests are already in GW. That would make crafting romance quests for Gwen and other human heroes a bit easier, I should think, since the groundwork for how to do it is already there (and in Gwen's case, adding a nod to her old friendship with PH if it's a PH character would be nice and add an extra layer of depth to the whole thing). I understand it would be a while before we would ever actually see any such quests in-game, but as long as we can get them at some point, the when doesn't really matter as much. It would also be a convenient way of introducing new emotes, another common suggestion I've seen around here. And I always wondered why, when player characters are addressed by name, it's always by their full name. It seems that in some situations, just the first name would be more appropriate. But that's never done, even though it doesn't seem like it would be hard to do. --Axwind 23:45, 18 March 2009 (UTC)

I was just thinking about that opening dialogue betwen Gwen and PH again, it happened to cross my mind earlier today along with some ideas to make it better. It's a little different than what I did above, but I think it's better than my first attempt. So I thought I'd put it here to see what you thought. Again, it's just an example, just something to show what it could be. PH is, as you know, a Prophecies Hero with a tapestry shred. So, here it is:

[Introductory dialogue]

PH: Gwen...

Gwen: Yes?

PH: Do you remember me?

Gwen: I... I don't know. You look so familiar, but...

PH (shows her the tapestry shred): Maybe this will help.

Gwen: Is this...? It can't be... <Character Name>? Is... is that you?

PH (nods): Yes. Yes it is.

Gwen: I thought I'd never see you again. I thought... I thought everyone I knew back then was gone.

PH: Not everyone.

Gwen: You're right, old friend. No matter how much they try, the Charr can't take everything from us. There will always be something they can't touch. Or someone...

PH: How did you come to be here, Gwen?

Gwen: I was captured by the Charr just hours after the Searing. Last year, I finally escaped and found my way here.

PH: You... you were their prisoner?

Gwen:: Yes, for seven years. It... it's not something I like to think about. But we can talk more later. Come, the Vanguard needs us now.

I realize that new cinematics are unlikely, so I don't expect that, although as I said above, it would be a nice way to visually introduce some new emotes, such as the hug from the above example. It's been suggested before, as I recall. But even just text dialogue would work fine. I hope that this helps you understand a little better what I mean by Gwen and PH's interactions throughout EOTN being a little more meaningful and better able to reflect their old friendship. Even if they weren't that close in pre-Searing Ascalon, I think Gwen would still be glad to see PH in EOTN, glad to have someone she once knew come back into her life, a familiar face to remind her that she isn't as alone as she thinks she is. Maybe, now that I think about it, some of the new dialogue could be done the way Sarah and Gwen's is in the Underworld. That might work best. It'd be better and more dramatic than simple pop-up dialogue but easier to pull off than a full-blown cutscene, which now that I think about it isn't needed for just tweaking the dialogue. Sorry for all this being so long and for kind of repeating myself a little here and there, by the way.

--Axwind 21:03, 19 March 2009 (UTC)

Just had some more sample dialogue revisions for you, including an extra scene in the garden like what I was saying above. Revisions of my revisions, heh. Sorry about that. But after giving them a second look, I thought they could be better.

[In the garden with Gwen and a Tyrian character with a tapestry shred before completing Then and Now, Here and There quest]

Gwen: Red iris flowers. You gave me so many back then, remember?

PH: Yes. You wanted to have a whole vase full of them.

Gwen: That's right. I've always loved these flowers, you know. That's why I keep this garden, although I don't know exactly why.

Gwen: Perhaps to keep a little of our homeland alive in these harsh lands?

PH: You've done a good job of it, Gwen.

Gwen: Thank you, old friend. You know, it's amazing to me that something so fragile can blossom here, in this earth.

Gwen: When I look at this garden, I see what I lost, and what we all lost. But when that iris flower blooms, I see hope.

Gwen: If these flowers survive, so will we.

Gwen: The greatest forest can become cinders with a tiny spark. The Charr knew this, and they sought to stamp out our memories of home when they seared Ascalon.

Gwen: But what those beasts do not realize is that new life will always spring and, like a plant shoot, I am still standing. Still fighting for a life beyond this.

Gwen: Someday, Ascalon's fields will bloom again, and the scent of smoke in my nostrils will be the scent of clean air.

Gwen: People will come to the lush congresses of our homeland and they will know that the blood of heroes allowed the new life to spring forth.

Gwen: That is the future I will have. But now, we have work still to do. Come, the journey is long.

[During Then and Now, Here and There quest]

Gwen: These ruins were once a great temple. I think that's why the Charr used it as a temporary prison. Every passing second, our presence was a reminder of a destroyed past and a denied future, built on top of a monument to our broken faith.

Gwen: I have never known a creature more hateful than the Charr. Had I not escaped from them, would be dead by now. Or worse, a prisoner.

Gwen: Before the Ebon Vanguard found me, I was little more than a scavenger. Although I had an empty stomach, my mind was filled with thoughts of vengeance.

Gwen: Now that I find myself here, though, these broken pillars do not seem as tall and frightening as they once did.

Gwen: What is it, old friend? You look troubled.

PH: It's just... hard to think about what you must have gone through here. What it must have been like.

Gwen: I know. I hate them for what they did to me, to all of us.

PH: You've changed, Gwen.

Gwen: I suppose I have. I had to. They didn't give me any choice. But—wait, do you hear that? There are people here! If the Charr are still using this place to hold prisoners, then we must free them!

[Finding Daghar]

Daghar: So predictable... Threaten their holes, and the little mice scamper out.

Gwen: Silence, you thrice-damned monster! I will have your heart in compensation for the one you broke!

Daghar: Ah, the young mouse returns. And not alone, I see. Yes, I recognize you, <Character Name>. You have quite the reputation among my people. Now I will end it.

PH: Try it, demon. You'll fail. Badly.

Daghar: Now I understand your anger, Charr-killer. Shall I tell you how the young mouse screamed? How she cowered before me?

PH: The only thing I want to hear from you is silence!

[After defeating Daghar]

Gwen: As a child, I found myself haunted by his remorseless eyes staring into my own... and then nothingness. When the world appeared to me again, I was seeing it for the first time as a prisoner. For all of the horrors I witnessed while under the captivity of the Charr, few compare to the murderous visage of the one who took me from everything that I knew. That was Dahgar.

Gwen: You will torment me no longer, demon. As you have taken from me, I have taken from you. A life for a life.

Gwen: But I must apologize... I did not mean to drag you here for my own personal vendetta.

PH: It's alright. He deserved to be punished for what he did to you.

Gwen: It means a lot to me to hear you say that, old friend. Thank you.

PH: I'm glad I could help you settle things. But, him finding you that day, it... it never should have happened. It wouldn't have happened, if...

Gwen: If what?

PH: No, it... it's nothing.

Gwen: Then we should move on. There is something I mean to give you, but I had to see the safety of our homeland first. Come, we go to the ruins of Ashford... to my old home.

[After kneeling in Ashford]

Gwen: Do you remember this? It is the flute you gave me all those years ago. I lost the broken pieces of my first flute in the Searing, and did not want to lose your gift.

Gwen: I hid it here in the hopes that it would not be lost to me after the Searing.

PH: I must have run through this place a dozen times back then, but I never knew this was here.

Gwen: As you allowed me to keep this tapestry shred, allow me to return to you the flute, as a sign of our friendship. We have lost a great deal, but some things will endure. We will see this war through to its end. We will bring peace to these lands, and we will see them as beautiful as they once were.

PH: Thank you, Gwen. But...

Gwen: Yes? What is it?

PH: Nevermind. We shouldn't linger here.

Gwen: You're right, old friend. There are many battles ahead. We should see Duke Barradin in Piken Square, and deliver him the news of the Charr's defeat. After that, we should return to the north.

Gwen: The Ebon Vanguard... and the future that we need to forge, are waiting for us!

[On entering the Hall of Monuments after completing Then and Now, Here and There quest]

Gwen: You've been quiet ever since we returned from Ascalon, old friend. Is everything alright?

PH: I... I don't know. But I'd like to talk, if you're not too busy.

Gwen: Of course. But why don't we go to my garden, just the two of us? I'm sure you'll feel more comfortable that way.

PH: Yes, that sounds good. I'll meet you there.

[On entering the garden with only Gwen in party after the above scene]

Gwen (walks over and sits among the flowers): Come over here and sit down with me, old friend.

PH (after sitting next to her): I'm starting to understand why you like it here.

Gwen: Yes, it's very peaceful. And quiet. A lot like the Hall. So, what's on your mind?

PH: I keep thinking about what you said back in Ascalon, about what happened to you. And I... I can't help feeling responsible somehow.

PH: If I hadn't left when I did, if I had stayed a little longer, I could have stopped Daghar from capturing you. I could have saved you.

Gwen: How? How could you have known what would happen? How could any of us have known? We had no warning, no idea that everything we knew, everything we loved, was about to be destroyed. You had your duty, and even as a child I understood that.

Gwen: So I never blamed you. Not once.

PH: I still... I still wish I could have been there for you.

Gwen: But you were, old friend. You were.

PH: What do you mean?

Gwen: Ever since you came here, I... I've started to find myself again, little by little. You brought back to me a piece of myself I thought I'd lost forever, a reminder of who I once was. And who I might still be again one day.

Gwen: We can't change what happened back then, but I'm beginning to understand that it's today that matters. And the future. And I'm glad you're here with me now to be a part of it. So please forgive yourself, old friend.

PH: I... Maybe I can, after all, Gwen. Thank you.

Gwen: You're welcome.

PH: Was that a smile I just saw?

Gwen: Yeah, I guess it was, wasn't it?

PH: It suits you.

Gwen: Thank you. It's still hard to do it much, but... I'll try. Anyway, we should be going. We still have many battles to fight before our struggle is over.

[Tyrian epilogue, if tapestry shred quest finished]

“We've come a long way together, haven't we, old friend? In spite of everything that's happened, I'm glad I followed you that day. Someday, we'll take our homeland back from the Charr. Someday.”

[Extra hero quotes - Tyrian, if tapestry shred quest finished]

“This place reminds me of home. Remember how green everything used to be?”

“It's nice being able to travel together again. Brings back memories.”

--Axwind 04:32, 23 March 2009 (UTC)

I know you guys are busy and all, but if you throw me a line every once in a while or something, I'd appreciate it, as some people I've talked to on some of the GW forums seem to think you just brushed me off and while I'm sure that wasn't your intent, that's how it seemed to them. I hope you can understand what I've been saying in here. It's just that there's a really good story you guys could tell between Gwen and a PH character - and yet it feels to me like you guys don't even know what you have, or what it could be. A lot of us felt shafted by the stunted reunion we got in EOTN, and so I hope you'll do something to fix that. Something that better acknowledges the old friendship between Gwen and PH both inside and outside the tapestry shred quest.

GW is, as I've come to understand, about experimentation. So why not extend that experimentation to the story as well as the gameplay? From what I've learned, most MMO's don't typically develop meaningful relationships between PC's and NPC's - the NPC's are just there to push the story and the character along. Why not try something different here and make GW stand out in yet another way? The groundwork is already laid through the previous history PH and Gwen have in common, and for non-Tyrians something else could be done to compensate for that. You know lots of people are attached to the relationship between Gwen and PH, so the smart thing to do would be to take advantage of it as much as possible. But that's just what I think. I hope to hear from you soon, even if it's just a little bit. Thanks again! --Axwind 12:01, 25 March 2009 (UTC)

Axwind, I gotta say, this is some pretty cool stuff you've come up with! I, personally, am thoroughly impressed, and I think it would be great if creating massive changes to the GW dialogue like this in order to improve the plot could work... However, notice the "if" in that statement. Again, while you have indeed spawned a wonderful idea, keep in mind that it very well might be next-to-impossible to implement it and keep the basic plot lines that already loop in and out of each other canon to what they used to be. Also, keep in mind that (I know you have mentioned this) this update, if it ever did happen, strongly favors prophecies characters. Essentially, Nightfall characters and Factions characters would get shafted out of what look like a very interesting layer to the overall story of guildwars. Why? Because they happened to be made in teh wrong continent. The way things are now, as I understand it, the plot still works for everyone (which is significantly easier, I would imagine) so it's even across the board. It's... well, unfair is too petulant of a word, but a different word that means something similar could work here. Thirdly, you claim that "lots of people" are attached to the Gwen-PH storyline... can you name any, or possibly convince some to come forward? Otherwise, this is the sum total of what you're saying... Finally, please also keep in mind that Arenanet staff are under no obligation to even help out on the wiki in the first place: the ones that do, well, they do so during whatever free time they have. The fact that Bobby even has a chance to read what you're writing is a gift from him in and of itself, and I should think that - since you're trying to make a rather large-ish change - you would be more considerate of this fact. Bobby is probably busy. Bobby happens to be helping out designing a new game, and probably has less free time than one might think. Bobby also is the main person who checks in on reported textual errors within the game (which can easily run rampant with over, I believe, 150 writer working on the same thing). So, please, give him some time. He will get back to you: he's a good person like that. I'm not saying that you're a bad person or that what you're proposing has no merit: far from it; I love what you're trying to do, but I see a few potential flaws in it and am pointing them out as well as respectfully asking you to be a little more considerate of everything Bobby does for the people on here and taking that into consideration. Thanks! :-) -- Timeoffire45 16:09, 26 March 2009 (UTC)

I don't have much time but I want to quickly respond to this growing thread. Thank you again, Axwind, for taking the time to share your feedback with me and the rest of the team. As you can probably imagine, we're incredibly busy working on Guild Wars 2, which is why I haven't had a spare moment to read through all your suggestions. I'll get to them eventually. I do appreciate your patience. And thank you, Timeoffire45, for contributing to the discussion. Bobby Stein 16:46, 26 March 2009 (UTC)

Sorry about that, I understand where you're coming from, Timeoffire, but really, the revisions I suggested build on what's already in place, so it's not a huge addition at all, just a few extra lines added to existing scenes and one extra scene to fix the continuity and give a little better resolution to that part of the story. But to be fair, something could be done for non-Tyrians to balance things out. I think I said that before, but I know it's a long post so I'm sorry if you missed it. And if you look at Linsey's page, you'll see that several people have agreed with me. As well as some folks at the GWO and Guru boards as well as some folks in-game. I think it's something of an even split about who likes it and who doesn't, but the support is not as small as some people seem to think. And thanks, Bobby, for replying. I'm sorry if it seemed like was bugging you. --Axwind 18:43, 26 March 2009 (UTC)

You're not bugging me. It's cool. Bobby Stein 18:53, 26 March 2009 (UTC)

Just thought of something, so I thought I'd share it. It occurred to me that, if our character takes Gwen to the underworld to see her mother, she never thanks him or her. And as that reunion would mean quite a lot to her, I should think she'd be quite grateful to our character for bringing her there, especially since you don't necessarily have to have her as a party member in the underworld. So I wrote up this little bit of dialogue for her to have with the player character in the Hall of Monuments after taking her to see her mother. It works for any character, regardless of which campaign they came from. I just think it'd be a nice way to wrap up that part of the story, is all.

[In the Hall of Monuments after taking Gwen to see Sarah]

Gwen: Thank you, my friend, for taking me to see my mother. It means so much to me.

PC: I'm glad I could help.

Gwen: I think, for the first time, I can finally start to move on with my life. To see the future, rather than linger on the past. Mother was right.

Gwen: My friend, I know it wasn't an easy journey to make, to go into that hellish place. And you didn't have to bring me along.

PC: Yes, I did.

Gwen: Why?

PC: You were in pain, Gwen. I knew how much you missed her. And so if there was any chance she was there, no matter how small, I wanted you to be able to see her again.

Gwen: I... I don't know what to say, except... thank you. Thank you so much!

Gwen: And... if you're ever in need, I'll be there. I promise. Whatever happens, I'll always be your friend. Always.

--Axwind 19:45, 28 March 2009 (UTC)

Wow... that's... that's actually REALLY good... Maybe you could add a part where the PC (in this case, player character not Proph. character, correct?) or maybe Gwen mention how this will also help her move past the events after the Searing... perhaps it could be called "After the charr held you as a prisoner" or "after what happened with the charr" or soemthing since a non-ascalonian would not be too likely to call it "the Searing" imho... Also, the line where she says simply "Why?" should probably say something like, "But... but, why?" since she obviously is confused about the reason... simply having her ask "why?" makes her sound like she either knows the answer or doesn't and is expecting to find out even if she doesn't ask... just makes it more natural, is all :-) Anyway, I'm sorry if I came off as being kidna harsh earlier... I really do like what you're trying to accomplish overall here, and - yes - I had read your note where you said that something could be done with non-proph characters, but as there was nothing I still felt it was a little lopsided... you just turned me significantly more in favor of this :-) -- Timeoffire45 22:02, 28 March 2009 (UTC)

Thanks! Yeah, the why part I wasn't sure quite how she should say it, but again this stuff is just rough drafts. Anet will likely make their own version anyway if they decide to go with it. And PC is any player character - Tyrian, Canthan, or Elonian. And I was thinking that for non-Tyrians, they could each have their own unique quest with her the way a Tyrian with a tapestry shred does, to balance it out. Something that ties into her past like the existing quest does, so that it can be resolved no matter where your character comes from. For Canthans, maybe it would involve finding her a special vase for her flowers (since she sometimes talked in pre about having one), and for Elonians, perhaps something involving having a new red cape (something nice, maybe Vabbian wool or something) made for her to replace the one she lost years ago. And the items, like the tapestry shred, would serve as a link to her past and a reminder of who she once was. Thus giving her a little hope for the future. --Axwind 01:24, 29 March 2009 (UTC)

I know I've thrown a lot of ideas around here, but the dialogue revisions are the important thing. The rest would be nice, but I understand if it isn't feasible to do. Just thought I'd clear that up. --Axwind 18:37, 31 March 2009 (UTC)

I've condensed and restated my revisions here on this page - Eye of the North Dialogue Revisions - so it's not so cluttered. So when you have time, Bobby, could you take a look? I'd appreciate it. Thanks! --Axwind 20:54, 4 April 2009 (UTC)

Hi Axwind. Linsey Murdock is better suited to handle any GW1 feedback. She's insanely busy right now (as most of us are) but she does spend some time on the wiki. On a somewhat related topic, are you a City of Heroes player? The Issue 14 update comes with the mission architect that allows you to create your own missions and story arcs. If you're interested in dabbling with MMO game design you might want to check it out. Bobby Stein 15:28, 5 April 2009 (UTC)

Waited a month and a half just for a redirect? That's all? I did post this stuff on Linsey's page as well - about a month ago now - and no response yet from her, not even a "I'll get back to you when I can" blip that would have let me know she had at least seen it. I know you guys are busy, but it's hard for us fans to sit for weeks, sometimes months, on end wondering if our questions or ideas are ever really going to be answered and addressed. Sorry if I went off a little, I was just hoping for a little more here than just a redirect. --Axwind 18:35, 5 April 2009 (UTC)

It's not a redirect. I just want you to understand that my team is focused on GW2 development so that your expectations are realistic. Anything related to GW1 is handled by Linsey and the Live Team.

I try to read everything that people post on my talk page but it is generally on my own time, which is scarce these days. I did, however, read your posts and think they are well thought out. It's clear that you are passionate about Guild Wars and have some interesting suggestions on how to improve certain story threads. For reference, implementing our own ideas is tough enough, since the approval process is very involved and can take months to get signoff. The process of creating new conversations and scenes in Guild Wars takes time, as ideas must first be documented, reviewed, scripted, hooked up in code, tested, and then localized. So on the surface it might seem an easy task to create such content, but it's very involved. That's why I encourage members of our community to channel their creative energies into making their own missions and quests using mod tools since we're not allowed to take fan ideas wholesale and do anything with them. That way people can actually play your creations and give you direct feedback. Bobby Stein 19:45, 5 April 2009 (UTC)

Ah, okay. I didn't realize it had to go through all that. I had posted on your page first because you're the Anet lead writer and this was mainly about writing revisions, but yeah, I see what you mean about letting Linsey deal with it. Hopefully I'll hear back from her sometime. I don't know how much communication you two have, but if you get the chance could you let her know what you think about my ideas? It's okay if you can't, I just thought it might help a little if she knew. Thanks for being patient with me through all this. --Axwind 22:32, 5 April 2009 (UTC)

Linsey and I talk pretty regularly. She's been working really hard the past couple of months, so she hasn't had much time to interface with the community. I forwarded your post to a few folks in the office, including her, several weeks ago. If no one has replied it's because they are working feverishly to meet tight deadlines. Take care. Bobby Stein 02:54, 6 April 2009 (UTC)

Okay, cool! I know it must be mad busy, like you said, especially with the big update coming. So I understand. I wasn't expecting anything right away anyway, as far as you guys actually being able to work on it, as I'm sure there's a bunch of stuff that would be ahead of it regardless. Thanks for passing it on! --Axwind 04:16, 6 April 2009 (UTC)

Guild Wars 2 Ideas

I had some thoughts about GW2, so I thought I'd share them here rather than go off-topic in the previous section. Anyway, it's always seemed to me in GW1 that our character is rather tight-lipped, speaking mostly only in cutscenes and when accepting quests. And that our character rarely shows emotion or growth of any kind. It's like our character is merely an observer of the world around him or her rather than an active and involved participant. Active and involved meaning that he or she would actually react more to what's going on around him or her in cutscenes (we never see our character's reaction when Vizier Khilbron reveals himself as the Lich, for instance) and talk with NPC's outside of cutscenes in some of those pop-up convos like what show up in Nightfall and Eye of the North. Sure he or she does quests and missions, but outside of that, there's nothing. Nothing at all. Nothing to make our character seem more than just a blank face traveling around and fighting stuff. Nothing to say how he or she feels about what's going on around him or her.

What I hope to see in GW2 are deeper, more involved interactions between PC's and NPC's, and that our character actually has his or her own story, his or her own motivation for doing what she does, aside from just fighting evil or gaining glory. In Final Fantasy VII, near the end of the game, Cloud told his friends to get off the airship and go home, to find their reason for fighting. Because he knew that they wouldn't fight their hardest unless they knew just what it was they were really fighting for. For each person, it was something different, something that defined them and made their resolve to fight what it was.

Something similar could be done in GW2, different for each race. Events and interactions early on could add that personal dimension to the character's journey and give them a deeper purpose for their journey besides just the main one, something to make the character seem more real, more alive. I'll use GW1 as an example, just to show what I mean. I'm not making any suggestions, just saying how it could have been to show what I mean by adding personal motivation to the character. In this case, it is a Prophecies character, and rather than Gwen's meeting and her gift-giving being optional, they could have been made primary quests to be completed before moving out of pre-Searing. Along with a scene or two of pop-up dialogue between her and the player character to give a bit of the character's backstory, just a basic sketch, nothing specific, but with something to explain why he or she would befriend Gwen. By the time the character leaves pre-Searing, storywise he or she and Gwen would have started to become friends.

And then the Searing hits, and while understandably our character is mainly occupied with his or her duties in the Vanguard, he or she would also wonder about Gwen. Finding her broken flute could have been the first of many clues to lead the player character on in an ongoing quest to find her. And while the events of Prophecies drew our characters away from Ascalon, he or she could have discovered that one of the refugees had her cape, now tattered and worn, which the refugee found in the hills outside Ashford (or wherever, someplace in Ascalon), where the ground was trampled and bearing signs of a struggle. The trail would have been two years old by then, and cold, but there could have been a set of quests that would happen after getting the refugees to Kryta that would have given hints about Gwen's fate but not revealed it entirely. And another quest to call the character back to Kryta to continue the main story.

The rest of the game would have gone on as it already does, but when visiting Glint, the character--knowing that the dragon as a seer sees many things--would also ask about Gwen, since it's an opportunity that storywise wouldn't come again. Glint's answer would be cryptic, confirming that she's still alive but beyond the character's reach for now. But that one day, in a place of ice and snow and fragile hope, they will be reunited. From there, Prophecies would continue as it does now. I used Proph because it was easy to find ways to craft a personal quest for it for the character, through the search for Gwen. But such a motivation could have been done for characters from other campaigns in other ways, too. I know none of the above will actually get put into the game (although it would be cool), I was just showing what I meant by giving the character a personal side to his or her journey, a quest that's more about him or her than the world around them.

What would really be cool is if GW2 is literally narrated by our character, thus immediately making it our character's story as much as it is that of the world through which he or she travels. One way this could be accomplished, I think, would be to have certain points of the game where our character has to be alone, with no other human party members. Such as entering a new region for the first time. Or entering a new chapter of the story. I realize that doing more in-depth interactions would require moving away somewhat from the traditional player=character mentality, but I think it would really be worth it. People don't expect MMO's to have deep, involved stories, but this is a way you can really surprise them. --Axwind 21:30, 28 March 2009 (UTC)

Just an idea I had, I know you've probably got the gist of the GW2 story worked out already, but I thought I'd share this with you to see what you think. While the dragons are blatant enough enemies, imagine for a moment if Primordus' awakening was not entirely due to his own will. But rather, that it was hastened by another enemy, perhaps a human given power and unnatural long life from some dark source, like Varesh was given power from Abaddon. Only unlike Varesh, this human does not worship the being she helps to wake, in this case Primordus. But rather, seeks to use him for her own ends, caring not that the awakening of the dragons will set the world in chaos. All that matters to her is using the dragons' power to achieve her own goal, taking back from the gods and the world what they once took from her, even if it means tearing apart creation itself to do so.

And so this hidden enemy would wait, patient and cunning, watching from the shadows as the dragons rise and heroes strive to stop them. Watching as the waking of the dragons tears the world asunder. Only when the dust has begun to settle, and the dragons begin to grow complacent in their power, would this other enemy reveal herself. Only then would she strike, swiftly and without warning. And then the crisis to the world would truly begin. --Axwind 06:10, 4 April 2009 (UTC)

Hi Axwind. Thanks for the feedback. I can't go into GW2 details here (or anywhere) at this point in development, but can say that we're trying some different approaches in how we handle dialogue. Bobby Stein 15:17, 5 April 2009 (UTC)

For the record, I don't want you to feel I'm ignoring your posts or trying to blow you off with vague answers. We're bound by NDA and can't divulge development details, nor are we allowed to critique fan-submitted ideas for obvious legal reasons. It's great that we have so many passionate fans like yourself, and we appreciate when you take the time to engage us. Thanks for understanding.

On a related topic, have you considered putting your ideas into practice with content creation tools? There are a lot of RPGs (including City of Heroes) that allow you to design and implement your own missions and dialogue trees. Guild Wars unfortunately doesn't have any such tools that are publicly available, but if you wanted to put your ideas into practice you should consider picking up something like Neverwinter Nights 2 or Oblivion to get your hands on these powerful programs. Plus, if you're considering a career in game development (design or writing, specifically) it's a perfect way to build a portfolio. Bobby Stein 15:40, 5 April 2009 (UTC)

It's okay, I know you guys can only say so much. Although I'll never understand the need for stuff like NDA's, hardly serves to promote the free exchange of ideas. When liability is more of a concern than creativity, you know something's wrong with the system. You as a company would make fans feel more connected to the game if they could have more of a say in things while it's being made. That it's more of a collaborative process between fans and staff than just another company-made game. But I know legal stuff gets in the way of that, unfortunately.

I don't have CoH though, but I do have NWN2. I just never thought making my own module was something that could get noticed in the field, so I never got into that part of the game much. Yet. But I might try it again, now that you mention it. If I can get myself away from GW for a while. --Axwind 17:55, 5 April 2009 (UTC)

Plenty of modders have made the transition into professional game development (including me). It shows that you've not only got great ideas, but you're committed to seeing them through. Plus it proves that you've got some real-world development experience, which is just the sort of thing that can separate you from other candidates. Bobby Stein 20:00, 5 April 2009 (UTC)

Can't reinforce this enough. Mods are a great way to get around the catch 22' that is such a problem for those who are new to a field; companies only want to hire people of proven ability and experience, for obvious reasons. But to get thst, you first need the employment. Mod making doesn't have that barrier to entry, yet can provide just the background wanted. Backsword 04:31, 6 April 2009 (UTC)

ArenaNet's position on user suggestions

Hi Bobby! I was struck by the honesty of your response to Axwind regarding ArenaNet's position on user suggestions. The wiki community is in the process of restructuring how user suggestions are handled and presented on the wiki, and we have been trying for months to get a clear answer on ArenaNet's position from Regina and it has not been very forthcoming. I was wondering if it would be alright with you if your statement to Axwind were modified to address the entire community and used as a quote on our main suggestion page, or if you would be willing to write up a position statement that we could use instead. I have included this idea in the general discussion regarding the restructuring here. Your response would be appreciated, either here or there. Thanks for all you do for us, and for considering this. -- Wyn 05:38, 6 April 2009 (UTC)

Hi Wyn. Has anyone else from ANet weighed in on the topic, or am I the only one who has responded? Bobby Stein 17:02, 24 May 2009 (UTC)

Oh my. Take a gander at User talk:Mike O'Brien. Backsword 17:08, 24 May 2009 (UTC)

I see. Well, glad others are discussing it. Legal matters are completely out of my realm. Bobby Stein 19:16, 24 May 2009 (UTC)

Yeah, I think we are working towards a solution :D -- Wyn 19:19, 24 May 2009 (UTC)

Question

I was just wondering who makes the manuals and box art and such as far as laying them out and stuff. I'm a graphic designer by trade, and I always have wondered how to get into doing that stuff for games. I've been doing graphics work for years but it's always been ads, not stuff like this, which would be much cooler (me being a gamer and all, having my job coincide with my hobby would really be nice - I'm sure you guys at Anet love that). Do you know if game companies like Anet do their print graphics work themselves or if they have someone else do it? Or who I might ask who might know? Thanks! --Axwind 20:23, 14 May 2009 (UTC)

It varies from company to company. Some use internal resources (a graphic designer and a writer) to pull together art assets and lay them out according to packaging dimensions and provide copy. Others use external partners since the tasks are infrequent and sometimes people don't have the bandwidth to handle that sort of project along with their other responsibilities. Open up some of your game manuals and look through the credits. Most companies will list the folks who handled production duties in there. Good luck! Bobby Stein 16:43, 23 May 2009 (UTC)

Thanks, I'll do that! --Axwind 18:28, 23 May 2009 (UTC)