User talk:J.Kougar/Archive7

Gaile

If you can't stay civil, don't bother. - anja 20:47, 31 March 2008 (UTC)

I'm always civil. Blunt maybe, and honest, but civil. Unlike some PR folks who have blown up on customers before, flamed them on forums, and taken criticism of their jobs far too personally. No, I'm not like that, I don't take things to heart, and I stay civil and chipper almost all the time.  :) I'm sorry if you don't agree with my opinions, but you know what they say about opinions, so Que Sera, Sera. Have a nice day.  :) J.Kougar 20:53, 31 March 2008 (UTC)

The problem is the way you voice your opinion. You practically hijack and derail the topic you are posting in, which is in no way constructive. And, it definitely doesn't help to get your point through. I'm sure you don't agree with me, but I don't see comments as those you made to Gaile as acceptable. Coating personal attacks in nice words doesn't make it less of a personal attack.
I think I should stop here though, this will just end up a petty argument. You know my stance, and I'm sure you know what will come out of it if you continue :) - anja 20:58, 31 March 2008 (UTC)

Everyone was saying their thanks and giving their well wishes in that topic, so I did the same. Sure, unlike on the Guild Wars LJ community there aren't tons of people cheering and overly happy to see her go, but that's just because people are often afraid to give their opinions here. I never have been.

As far as people flaming me for my opinions, well, it happens a lot... many people have no respect for other people's opinions, and attack anyone with an opinion different than theirs instead of doing the more mature thing of just ignoring it and talking to the people they have something in common with. I don't waste my time trying to force other's to agree with me, I explain my opinion and why I have it, and that's it. Flaming people for not agreeing with you is just childish and moronic.

Lastly, if that end line was supposed to be intimidating then I might remind you that I've been senselessly banned several times before because other people could not stand the idea of someone not agreeing with them, and as a result they did they only thing they could think to do with their closed-minds... and that was to ban me. However, that's never worked and I've evaded every ban they've ever made that I didn't deserve, and if some bigot decided to ban me again because it serves their own insecurities, then I'll do as I have before and ignore it. I can't see how a simple farewell and good luck comment would warrant such a thing, but you never know... folks love to over-react to things... but hoping that people don't try to turn a simple well wish (which just happens to contain a lot of truth and personal opinion) into a drama fest, then there won't be any problem.  :) Thank you for your concern though. J.Kougar 21:15, 31 March 2008 (UTC)

You just don't get the point, do you? Or is it willful ignorance? Lord Belar 21:16, 31 March 2008 (UTC)

My point was just to avoid said drama fest, Kougar. Nothing else. :) - anja 21:18, 31 March 2008 (UTC)

Hopefully, So long as folks can be mature and just ignore opinions that don't coincide with theirs, there won't be any. Can I really be blamed for the childish antics of people who just attack anyone that doesn't agree with them? J.Kougar 21:28, 31 March 2008 (UTC)

Only when you're the one doing the childish antics. Lord Belar 21:31, 31 March 2008 (UTC)

No worries, I don't do that sort of thing.  :) I'm opinionated, sure, but what homosexual man isn't?  ;) I have every right to give my opinions (or in this case well-wishes and good-byes) as anyone else does... just so long as I keep it simple, honest, and civil... which I always do.  :) Just because I'm more honest about my feelings, and can express them without attacking anyone or even hating that person, doesn't make me childish I don't think. Being able to call people on their mistakes and shortcomings and yet still not hate them as a person is usually seen as a good trait. J.Kougar 21:45, 31 March 2008 (UTC)

Let's all stop. -- Brains12 \ Talk 21:34, 31 March 2008 (UTC)

Eah, people love to disagree... and it's over here on my personal page where it's not an issue, so I don't mind. What seems to bother people though, is that they cannot force me to agree with them, and must accept me for who and how I am, and walk away and worry about their own lives instead of me and mine. I'm not sure why they bother's people so much, but sadly it does. No worries, if it gets out of hand and some crazy person comes in flaming and cursing and such, I'll make sure one of the Moderators steps in.  :) J.Kougar 21:45, 31 March 2008 (UTC)

You have never been senselessly banned. --Lemming 21:40, 31 March 2008 (UTC)

That seems to be a matter of opinion.  ;) J.Kougar 21:45, 31 March 2008 (UTC)

(Reset indent) stop all of you, now Dominator Matrix 21:42, 31 March 2008 (UTC)

Relax. Try some decaf.  ;) J.Kougar 21:45, 31 March 2008 (UTC)

Don't drink coffee :P Dominator Matrix 21:46, 31 March 2008 (UTC)

lol, okay them... was just kidding. I don't take these little debates to heart, and I hate to see other people doing so. Besides, debates can be fun sometimes... and if it gets out of hand I'll make sure a Mod steps in.  :) J.Kougar 21:48, 31 March 2008 (UTC)

Lol, I was keeping up with this, and I can just say, the above conversation is just fsking awesome.--Ryudo 21:53, 31 March 2008 (UTC)

Hey, popping back on the wiki every few months to provide fun and amusement is always a pleasure. Glad you enjoyed it.  ;) J.Kougar 01:31, 1 April 2008 (UTC)

Hello

Dear J.Cougar, no worries, I will not hit you in the back taking advantage that your IP did not yet changed and prevent you from posting for...a minute(was true when I typed this...edit conflicts). Just wanted to tell you that even if I was to totally disagree with you on any subject, or take the easy way to focus on the form, rather than on the meanings, forces of opposition are a necessity in this world. I love you, for you dont always agree with me, and especially because of it. Yseron - 90.28.78.199 21:25, 31 March 2008 (UTC)

OMG you will never believe this

I was born on the same day as you! You were born on July 14th, just like me! OMG! I wasnt born on the same year though (that would have been seriously freaky!) By the way, I dont understand you're big grudge against Gaile. She has done nothing wrong.

Interesting coincidence.  ;) What I have against Gaile is all the times she flames customers on the forums, threatened to stop coming to the forums if people didn't give her praise for herself and the game only, with no hint of criticism, complain, or concern for the game... and her frequent failures to follow up on issues and take player concerns and game issues seriously enough to make sure they Devs knew about them. The fact that she just hangs out in towns for the popularity rush and to get people to give her free stuff just so that she'll pay them a little hint of attention, also sullies my opinions of her. Thankfully, that won't be any issue anymore.  :) J.Kougar 21:28, 31 March 2008 (UTC)

WTS Gaile's mask, 7 stacks of armbraces, pst

Yeah, I agree with you Kougar. Her attitude on forums has been piss-poor at best. It reminds me of a little kid; if she doesn't get her way, she goes all emo and ragey and threatens never to post again. As much as everyone would enjoy that, she never seems to keep her promises on that either :/ -Auron 23:41, 31 March 2008 (UTC)

Yea, and she's already rushed in and removed my little fair-well message to her, labeling it as a personal attack and removing it from her page. lol She'd know it if I made a personal attack on her, lol, the post she deleted was me being generally nice (if not perhaps a little blunt) to her, even if she didn't deserve it.  ;) J.Kougar 01:22, 1 April 2008 (UTC)

(Reset indent) I find both of your attitudes towards Gaile is uncalled for. You do not bash someone on there talk page, especially when everyone else is giving constructive feedback towards the situation. It goes back to the one simple rule, If you do not have anything nice to say, do not say anything at all. May Both Of You Have A Super Day! :o) --Shadowphoenix 23:56, 31 March 2008 (UTC)

That never stopped Gaile from attacking and flaming folks, so why should she get better treatment than she gives? "Do unto others as you would have other's do unto you." is another fun quote for you, and Gaile hasn't even come close to having reaped all that she has sewn.  ;) J.Kougar 01:22, 1 April 2008 (UTC)

Nobody cares about your opinion. I'm commenting on Kougar's talk page, not Gaile's; your criticisms are not only unwanted, but wrong to boot. -Auron 00:15, 1 April 2008 (UTC)

Same goes for you Auron :). Have A Nice Day! --Shadowphoenix 00:18, 1 April 2008 (UTC)

Reading comprehension is gud. -Auron 00:25, 1 April 2008 (UTC)

Oh, and shadow... you know all that butt kissing on Gaile's page just makes you look really bad, right? She's not going to be your friend just because you brownnose a little, she has a very large portion of the community (on the wiki anyway, and most of the mods on the forums still) willing to do that for her, so you're meager efforts aren't likely to get noticed by her, other than perhaps one of her token generic responses.  ;) J.Kougar 01:31, 1 April 2008 (UTC)

Kougar ive almost had it with you! Please Say something constructive and nice or don't say anything at all. Thank you. Dominator Matrix 01:38, 1 April 2008 (UTC)

Well in all actuallity, I wasnt brown nosing. Being a CRM myself (im not with anet btw) I kind of know how it goes, I might not be a CRM in MMORPGS but I know how difficult the job can be. And unlike u I actually like Gaile, you need to re-learn your manners on here b4 you start shooting ur mouth off and with that I am signing off from this discussion. See ya. Have A Nice Day! :o) --Shadowphoenix 01:56, 1 April 2008 (UTC)

Actually, I worked many customer service and relation jobs in my lifetime, usually along the retail line but still very similar, and I can tell you for sure that no reputable place would have ever put up with the things Gaile did over the years, and not fire her on the spot. If you think the behavior Gaile exhibits is acceptable, you must not be very good at your job either. Just look at her archives, like the most recent misplaced articles section... she is more than a little rude to people there before she whisks it away to hide it out of common sight. Oh, and lastly, your further attempts to brownnose on her page before she once again archived my comments and the comments of others, and your pathetic posturing as if you think you are somehow one of the moderators or have any right or authority to threaten me, is simply laughable.  :) J.Kougar 02:58, 1 April 2008 (UTC)

(Reset indent) (Edit conflict x2) ha, now im laughing. Im not gonna feed this troll anymore Im done. --Shadowphoenix 03:03, 1 April 2008 (UTC)

You're hypocritical too I see.  ;) You already made that promise before you started strutting about like you owned the place and making threats... and yet here you are again. Tell me honestly, is it my charm or my sexy bod that keep you coming back again and again, or perhaps just a need for humiliation?  ;) J.Kougar 03:09, 1 April 2008 (UTC)

While I don't particularly like the way J.Kougar voices his opinions, I think the lot of you are being hypocritical. If you don't agree with his opinions, and have nothing constructive to say (other than telling him to improve his manners, which is in reality, very relative and subjective), please just ignore his comments. -- ab.er.rant 01:59, 1 April 2008 (UTC)

T_T I need to cool down, as I know that was directed towards me. And I apologize for that. Dominator Matrix 02:01, 1 April 2008 (UTC)

No, I wasn't targeting you specifically. It was both this section and the previous section. The responses and counter-responses are moving along in a direction that won't lead to anything useful. -- ab.er.rant 02:04, 1 April 2008 (UTC)

I think it's pretty safe to say that most of the "How dare you say X or Y about Z or A" that gets posted on my talk page here is rather pointless. I debate things with folks because I feel a little obligated to do so, and because I can often correct some wrong impressions that some folks have... but since it'll take much larger acts from ArenaNet to change my opinions about the game, and I'm not concerned with the opinions of other players... it really is pointless for normal folks I don't know to argue with me on here.  ;) It still seems to be something many folks feel the need to do though, so I humor them some, since I don't take any of it personally and I'm very hard to offend.  :) J.Kougar 02:30, 1 April 2008 (UTC)

Drama Drama Drama

We should make a soap--Shadowsin 23:26, 31 March 2008 (UTC)

Also I would like to add that you were very rude to Gaile I really dont see why you have such animosity toward her, she doesn't really do much, she helps with events and bans and what ever, but you would be a little testy if you had to deal with thousands of whining children everyday, btw, please point me to one or two instances that Gaile has actually flamed anyone. cuz atm your the only one that seems to think so.--Shadowsin 23:35, 31 March 2008 (UTC)

I'm not going to try and dig through the countless archives and such to try and find all the times Gaile went off on customers and cursed them out, all the times she gave incorrect information out as fact, all the times she deleted or hid criticism or concerns about her job performance to try to make herself look better... because a lot of it, like all the instances of her flaming people on the forums, were quickly deleted by her or her little brown-nosing Moderators who are always willing to bend over backwards to appease her every whim and Ban anyone who dare speak against her (they want to keep their elite fan site status after all, and she has threatened forums with that before). It's clear from the other people posting on this page alone that most folks know about all her blunders and attacks on others, and it's even more clear if you look at places like the Guild Wars LJ community and such. Just because you may have missed out on all the drama she's caused or been involved with, doesn't mean it never happened or that someone else is somehow required to prove it all to you. She's leaving the position, that's good news enough, and so none of her past screw-ups are really that important and it's good enough that she's going to be gone very soon. Just wait, you'll see an improvement in the game and community because of it.  :) J.Kougar 01:22, 1 April 2008 (UTC)

LOLwut?? Gaile hasn't ever personally attacked anyone on this site AFAIK, and has certainly never cussed someone out. As for incorrect info, everyone is bound to make mistakes, and tbh, it's not like she automatically knows EVERYTHING in the game as soon as it comes out. The moderators are there to cut all the insulting, pointless insults about every little thing possible, in order to make it easier to find people who can give constructive criticism and/or feedback that has good points in it. Although, I DO respect the way you able to make your thoughts clear with your constructive criticism , and I can see that your point is more that you simply don't approve of her, rather than just rudely insulting her. Just my 2 and a half cents.--MP47 (Talk) (Contr.) 01:39, 1 April 2008 (UTC)

I didn't say on this site, but she sure tore into folks on the forums many times. The issue with her attacks on users during the Pet DP discussion might be one of the more well known times she flew off the handle with the customers, but it's far from the only one. If you'd been following all this for the past three years like many of us have, you'd know more about why so many folks have a grudge against Gaile. J.Kougar 02:25, 1 April 2008 (UTC)

I'm getting the impression that you're partially what you described Gaile as - the "popularity rush" part. You just do it on the wiki instead of on forums or in-game ;) I'm sure you know exactly what kind of responses you're going to get and you just love getting it. I concur that honest opinions have their place, but I believe that we can say it and keep the rudeness factor down. But I suppose, from your point of view, any sugar coating would defeat the purpose of the criticism in the first place. We'll just have to agree to disagree :) I just hope that all users who noticed this realise that and don't blow things up unnecessarily. -- ab.er.rant 01:53, 1 April 2008 (UTC)

Actually, if I could block all comments on my discussion page so that I didn't have to keep coming back here, I would. I'd much rather be able to make my comments and then go play the game... but I know with posting I have to make a small commitment to keep coming back again and again to respond to all the folks on who reply to me. I'd honesty like to not have to waste so much time with replies like this on my user-page, but it's almost always the result of my posting somewhere.

As for the rudeness factor... well, if you recall it wasn't too horribly long ago that Andrew Patrick and Gaile Gray made that topic on the forums where they rudely attacked the players and threatened to quit dealing with the player base entirely because the players weren't bowing down to warship them. Many of the players then responded in a very polite and professional manner and explained why they were not suited for their jobs, particularly Gaile, and how she handles the customer relations. Sure, the Mods were quickly instructed to come in and begin deleting those posts and banning the users, but it was still public enough and seen by enough people to make quite a stink. All the posts Gaile made in there where she blatantly flamed people was just more mess that they had to clan up after. J.Kougar 02:25, 1 April 2008 (UTC)

Regardless, it's gone and past, and no need to bring it up again.--MP47 (Talk) (Contr.) 02:27, 1 April 2008 (UTC)

Perhaps, but the past is what defines who we are today. It can't be forgotten or people don't have an accurate view of who we are as people. It will all be irrelevant though once she is no longer in the CR/PR position though, so it is pointless to fixate on if she did a good job or not, since she won't be doing the job anymore.  :) J.Kougar 02:33, 1 April 2008 (UTC)

Except to her successor, who will want to learn from what mistakes she made. Calor 03:01, 1 April 2008 (UTC)

True. Wow, I feel sorry for them then... they'll have a WHOLE lot to learn from. lol  ;) J.Kougar 03:03, 1 April 2008 (UTC)

Still following, and still laughing my ass off at all this. Imma get flamed for this too, but I believe that technically speaking, Kougar is in the right here. If all of you love Gaile so much and want to praise her, thats fine and lovely. If Kougar doesn't like her so much and wants to criticize, I believe its well within his right. Gaile has done a pretty adequate job as a CRM imho, but yeah, she definitely made her share of mistakes. As for him being harsh, Auron smack talks far worse than him on a regular basis, as do many other people on here like eloc and CA, just to name a few. But by all means, continue this lovely chat, its breaking up my humdrum studies.--Ryudo 03:48, 1 April 2008 (UTC)

It is funny don't you think with how Eloc, Shard and the rest can flatly insult others but just because J.Kougar is simply being blunt and giving deserved criticism to Gaile instead doing so to some fairly new player he gets attacked and unjustly banned. Many double standards going on and thats not just referring to Gaile's lack of consistency in her removal of posts. ~ Sabastian 04:47, 1 April 2008 (UTC)

Gaile's talk page

Could you refrain from posting any more comments similar in nature to those you've already posted (and been moved) on Gaile's talk page? I believe you've done enough disruption already. -- ab.er.rant 03:37, 1 April 2008 (UTC)

Actually, I posted that topic as an honest and actual question about her methods. It wasn't really about what she was archiving, as much as why she felt the need to archive things back that didn't even meet the rules she herself put in place as to when and why things should be archived. It's just a little funny, don't you think? I thought I might get an answer, but I forgot momentarily about her avoidance and cowardice when it comes to actually owning up to things and giving a straight answer. J.Kougar 03:42, 1 April 2008 (UTC)

You just couldn't resist adding in that last line. -- ab.er.rant 03:49, 1 April 2008 (UTC)

To this asshole of a user "JKougar" or whatever:

Holy shit. What the hell is wrong with you? Simply put, looking at the entire loads of bullshit that this user has contributed to every wiki he or shes been in, I can simply conclude that there's no intention whatsoever here to do anything useful. Now speaking directly to you, J.Kougar or whatever you call yourself, can you simply please refrain from posting AT ALL? Seriously, do everyone a favor. Every edit you make intends to start some useless bullshit drama that no one wants to get involved in. It's not even good edrama. Just stop trying to make a fool out of yourself. It's not working. At all. You say that you try to be "blunt". Last time I checked, blunt does not mean "be a horrendous jackass of a troll". I mean, at least use that attitude to try and communicate something that actually has some value/meaning, and not "I'm a turd that wants attention". If you're going to have an attitude and be a complete dumbass, then just... stop posting. Seriously. There, I just said what every other single contributor on this wiki wanted to say. I can assure you that everyone wants to say simply this: GTFO. Thank you. - Anon - 74.14.106.47 03:50, 1 April 2008 (UTC)

(Edit conflict x3) I suppose J. chased away Gaile, gj. — ク Eloc 貢 03:51, 1 April 2008 (UTC)

Suggesting that a professional CRM quits her job because of one person is equally full of fail mate.--Ryudo 03:52, 1 April 2008 (UTC)

(Edit conflict, @ Anon)Learn the wiki, he's been banned and you made yourself look like a tool. He's also rather polite and well spoken in his "attacks", and i really believe him when he says he's just asking, though i see that there is at least a bit of hatred behind what he says. However, it's not your place to attack, and he's much more respectable than you because at least he can "troll" someone w/o looking like an angry kiddo--Ohnoes 03:54, 1 April 2008 (UTC)

They banned me again? Yeash, you'd think they'd have learned better by now. That doesn't work unless I agree to let it work. Since no one told me why I was banned I'm not sure I'm willing to cooperate this time and accept it. ~ J.Kougar

Aber.er.rant said something about "you just had to throw in that little npa" meh. You use proxy or the release/renew trick?--Ryudo 04:29, 1 April 2008 (UTC)

MultiProxy program, can sort through hundreds of IPs and change them at my will just as much as I want to. Makes me unblockable.

That was enough to warrent it? If so they really should be more clear. Seriously though, can I get a little clarification on the ban and details and such? I'm assuming it's for giving Gaile a hard time for archiving everything, even simple questions, with no reason what-so-ever... but official details would be nice. If they can be provided then I will likely accept it and observe this ban till it's end, instead of just exadeing it all to heck and back like I have had to do in the past before when no one would even explain why I was banned. Thanks. ~ J.Kougar

Not that I need to get involved, but as its a talk page and belongs to gaile, she technically doesn't need a reason to archive. Crying foul on that seems rather pointless to me.. unless your language is just imprecise and you are in fact complaining about her interpretation of your words or whatnot. But even then... its still her page. - THARKUN 04:38, 1 April 2008 (UTC)

Yes, but as Ryudo pointed out in the last post of the 'Drama' section above, there are far worse and more frequent offenders here than me, yet I'm the one banned? Seems funny, no? ~ J.Kougar

Off topic (but a good thing). She archives her page so its not 4GB in size, or else we couldn't edit it :P Dominator Matrix 04:40, 1 April 2008 (UTC)

"but I forgot momentarily about her avoidance and cowardice when it comes to actually owning up to things and giving a straight answer." This little bit right here would be my guess as to your ban reason, but youd have to ask ab.er to be sure.--Ryudo 04:40, 1 April 2008 (UTC)

@Dominator; no, she archives so she doesn't have to listen to people calling her out for sucking at her job. She's archived topics that are currently under discussion; that's a pretty big wiki no-no. It's only one step above blanking your page in terms of policy, and no better than it in terms of rudeness. Which is sort of proves Kougar's point.

Archiving the old topics is fine, but that's not what anyone's talking about. -Auron 04:45, 1 April 2008 (UTC)

Well said, thank you.  :) ~ J.Kougar

(Reset indent) she archives for this reason "WARNING: This page is 31 kilobytes long; some browsers may have problems editing pages approaching or longer than 32kb. Please consider breaking the page into smaller sections." Dominator Matrix 04:48, 1 April 2008 (UTC)

LOL, hardly. She archives to cover her own butt and hide topics or posts she doesn't want seen, everyone knows this or can easily see it by looking at her history of edits where she removed one line or one post, or an active topic while ignoring the old dead ones. ~ J.Kougar

I've used the wiki with a 28.8kb modem on a computer barely able to run windows 98 without issues other than a bit of lag but waiting more than two seconds doesn't kill anyone. ;) ~ Sabastian 04:53, 1 April 2008 (UTC)

My Ban

Well, I'm going to go get a few things done before bed, so if the person who banned me would like to step up, and explain the ban, the specific reason for it, and the details such as duration and whatnot, I'll check back later and if it's an agreeable reason I'll stop evading the ban and serve my time. If not, well... I guess I'll just continue till I get an explanation... I don't think it's really too much to ask for is it? Thanks.  :) ~ J.Kougar

Hey, so let me start by saying that I really couldn't care less about what you did or what Gaile may or may not have done. That said, I can't help see some irony in your avoidance of the ban. Your accusation of Gaile, if I understand it correctly (and for my own edification, feel free to correct me if I'm wrong) is founded -- at least partially -- on the notion that by archiving apparent "blemishes" on her talk page, she's effectively ignoring the issues and writing off the posters. For arguments sake, let's say that perhaps she does so because she feels that those comments are unwarranted -- you clearly disagree. Now, for whatever reason, you're banned, but because you feel that that ban is unwarranted, you instead choose to evade the ban and continue as if nothing had happened. Maybe it's just me, or maybe my logic is somehow fallacious, and yet I can't help seeing some inherent hypocrisy/irony in the entire situation.

Also, I don't mean to speak for Ab.er.rant, who blocked you (the duration is 2 days fyi), but from what I've read, and based on his block comment "You can't help but throw in that little NPA can you?" I would hazard a guess by saying that lines like "I thought I might get an answer, but I forgot momentarily about her avoidance and cowardice when it comes to actually owning up to things and giving a straight answer." Probably didn't help/were a direct cause of the ban. He warned you, and you proceeded to answer in earnest, but even though it had no real bearing on your behavior, you decided to throw one last jab at Gaile (despite the fact that it clearly was going to accomplish nothing). That's my best guess as to why you were banned.

And, on a last note, the very act of avoiding a ban, which is inherently associated with vandals, trolls, and other ne'er-do-wells probably isn't helping your cause, so, if I were you, I would take the time to step back and reflect on what you want your role on GWW to be; I, for one, honestly don't see how this kind of behavior is beneficial to the community. *Defiant Elements* +talk 05:33, 1 April 2008 (UTC)

On a side note: feel free to disagree with my logic and whatnot, but please don't respond with a post attempting to justify your actions or vilify Gaile's or something along those lines; I sincerely have no interest in listening to (or more appropriately, reading) such an argument. *Defiant Elements* +talk 05:37, 1 April 2008 (UTC)

This: "please don't respond with a post attempting to justify your actions or vilify Gaile's or something along those lines" contradicts this: "On a side note: feel free to disagree with my logic and whatnot"

Avoiding the ban is bad but there are users who flatly insult others all the time on this wiki yet rarely if ever see ban time for doing so but because J.Kougar's was against Gaile he gets banned... Double Standards... Gaile constantly breaks the rules by archiving freashly made topics and posts that she doesn't like and seldom leaves a prominent link yet she is never warned or banned. "You are permitted to archive older comments as your talk page gets longer. Do so by copying or moving your talk page to an archive subpage, such as User talk:Example/Archive 1, and leave a prominent link to it from your main talk page." ~ Sabastian 06:14, 1 April 2008 (UTC)

If Gaile treated you half as badly on the wiki as you treat her, I'd block Gaile, and I would put to her the same request that I put to you: Regardless of your ability to circumvent your ban or your disagreement with it, I ask that you respect it anyway. To attempt to put yourself above the rules will only create further animosity between yourself and the rest of the wiki community.

I was not the sysop who blocked you, but to review information on your blocks, past and present, you can always look here. Without sorting out specifically what's before and what's after your ban, I note you referring to Gaile as a coward (NPA), referring to Shadowphoenix as pathetic (NPA), ignoring the requests of two admins to back off, various threatening to, and following through on, evading any ban, being a generally condescending troll, and discussing things on the Admin Noticeboard despite the floating red warning box. For these reasons, and because this has been a problem before, I'm extending your ban from 2 days to 1 week. - Tanetris 06:34, 1 April 2008 (UTC)

I really was going to wait to morning to deal with this, but since it's been brought t my attention that your carelessness has caused greater issues than expected (see second paragraph) I'm having to get back on here tonight. Gee, thanks....

So I get banned with no reason, explanation, or details given... and when I question this ban, you extend my ban? Ya know, coupled with the excellent points about how I'm being held to double standards that Sabastian posted above (which you so happen to ignore, big surprise there) this more than looks like petty vengeance instead of upholding the rules.

Furthermore, you so eagerly banned the IP that I was originally using without any reason to do so, since I didn't use it to post anonymously, you also locked out several other users who also share this same network and did nothing to deserve a ban, and who also don't happen to have the luxury of the MultyProxy program that I use and which is loaded with hundreds of IP addresses on call to make sure you can never block me if I don't want you to do so. We've been through this before, so just quit the IP blocking as it's only a waste of your time, and currently because of the way you chouse to hap-hazard do it (unlike how the person who put the initial ban on did) you have locked out a lot of innocent users for absolutely no reason at all, other than your sloppiness. Please correct this issue for them ASAP.

As far as you're complaints that I posted on the notice board, well... it was discussing me, so of course I was going to go defend myself. Who wouldn't? It does ask that you keep discussion to a minimal there, and I did. No long paragraphs or anything, just a few simple lines and nothing worth your harping over, except that your personal feelings for me are apparently driving you to grab at straws in an attempt to justify the personal vendetta that you are trying to fulfill by attempting to ban me with no effect.

Had you simply answered my questions, or better yet the initial banning mod have given me a reason and information (since I didn't know where to find it prior to your post) about the ban, it would have been much simpler. However, you apparently decided to try and get in on it because of your own feelings for Gaile or against me, and thus you made a huge mess of things and did a poor job of justifying it. I was much more inclined to accept the ban before hand, but after this... I really wonder why I should? If you were me, and treated in this fashion, would you? The other users who Sabastian pointed out get away with far more than I do, without repercussion... and Gaile gets away with violating the rules frequently (also nicely pointed out in Sabastian's above post) and no one so much as gives her a warning... so if these rules are only going to apply to me, why should I respect them? Now if you're willing to correct the mistake you made in blocking innocent users, and discuss this without petty personal feelings being involved, then I'll consider cooperating. ~ J.Kougar

The ban was extended because I feel it was rather lenient for the circumstances in the first place, and because you've continued the various unacceptable behavior noted since the block was put in place. I explained these reasons above.

I am well aware of how proxies work. If you are concerned for the other people who use them, don't use them to evade bans.

I have no personal feelings for or against you or Gaile. I have no emotional investment in this issue, and if you are reading any, I can only guess that you're projecting. When Gaile does something wrong, the admins correct her, and she's quite cooperative about it. She is not treated the same as you because she does not act the same as you, no more, no less. - Tanetris 09:09, 1 April 2008 (UTC)

So you're a much higher-ranking moderator than ab.er and have full freedom and authority to just pop around and extend bans when you feel like it?

If you'd paid any attention you would have noticed that I'm not concerned for other people who use proxies, I'm concerned for the people who are using a standard IP address and have been blocked, even thought I never used that address to evade a ban or post anonymously. You blocked an innocent IP for no reason, and have really put some innocent folks out. Own up to your mistake.

You claim you don't have any personal feelings for myself or Gaile, yet she's allowed to break the rules repeatedly and I'm not? Other users are allowed to break the NPA over and over again with no consequences... so excuse me if it's a little hard to believe that you aren't out on a personal vendetta when you ignore all the rule violations except for the ones I supposedly commit.  ;) ~ J.Kougar

DE was correct in his explanation for the initial block I applied. My first comment was hoping to get him to lay off with the trolling but that last line forced a block. And all the comments after that clearly showed how futile it was to think that he might be persuaded to play nice. -- ab.er.rant 08:19, 1 April 2008 (UTC)

Yes, but obviously you're friend above made some really big mistakes in trying to follow up things, so it's really done more harm than good. Since you were the one who initiated the ban, I'm willing to work with you if you'd like to address the issued I posted above above, and explain the double standards and such.  :) Thanks. ~ J.Kougar

There you go, while awaiting your responce on my above inquries I took the inititive to make formal apoligies to Gaile and Shadow for the NPA violations you claim I made against them. I guess I can see how my statments could offend them if they are the sort of person to take such things to heart, and are not as callous an carefree as I am when it comes to online content.

I'd still like to know why the double standards are in place, and why my ban was extended simply for asking for details about my ban since they were not given, but I can give you a little time to come up with that.  :) ~ J.Kougar

~_~ no one saw it when I posted that I see...--Ryudo 08:21, 1 April 2008 (UTC)

I did, but DE made a full explanation :) No one got that little one-liner ;) -- ab.er.rant 08:24, 1 April 2008 (UTC)

I know, you pointed out how a lot of other folks get away with a lot worse, but that got greatly ignored because they have a special place in their hearts for me it seems.  ;) Gotta love being held to a different set of rules made specially for you. ~ J.Kougar

No Ab, don't encourage the Wall of Text! (And you keep thinking that if it makes you feel better, J) - THARKUN 08:31, 1 April 2008 (UTC)

So you'd encourage them to continue to hold people to double standards depending on how much they like or dislike the person, and have me sort through hundreds of IP addresses in an attempt to get a straight answer out of these people as to why they feel that such unjust rules are just? I normally only pop on here every few months with something to say, do you really want me to stick around and keep hounding them into explaining actions that are otherwise obviously not fair? ~ J.Kougar

You don't seem to accept the statements already given, so what should lead anyone to believe that you will in the future? Thus, not a lot of motivation to continually explain things to you while you continue to dance around on various proxies. And from what I've seen, the standards are largely well-applied; sure, there may be slight variances due to there being multiple sysops and humans being fallible, but generally I haven't seen that of which you complain. Fairness is relative, though, and I somehow doubt your continual hounding will result in great overhauls to realize your personal wikitopia. And lastly, if you are such an infrequent guest (and especially if you are going to reject the explanations given as you have so far), then why not just take another couple months off. Then, the admins don't have to worry about tracking IPs, you don't have to be involved in potentially banning others, your ban will have long expired, and there are no further headaches on either side. It is, as you readily admit, your usual system, so its not like its a huge inconvenience. Then again, this talk page is evidence of nothing if not a desire to argue with others (by all sides, myself included, sadly.) - THARKUN 09:17, 1 April 2008 (UTC)

Actually J.Kougar, it isn't rules against you but rather anyone who points out the many many failures Gaile does that keeps her from even being a decent CRM let alone a good. ~ Sabastian 08:34, 1 April 2008 (UTC)

This is true. ~ J.Kougar

This situtation is accelerating far too quickly. At this point both sides (J.Kougar, his fiance vs everyone else, with me in the middle) is screwing up very bad. I strongly encourage kougar and his fiance to drop this string of conversation and stop angering people, on purpose or no, and I strongly encourage everyone else to get over this fast.--Ryudo 09:24, 1 April 2008 (UTC)

Well, fairness is relevant... and this is more of Mod's personal opinions than following the rules, which is why some people can get away with breaking them so frequently without worry, and others like myself who only pop on here every few months get immediately singled out and banned for the slightest thing. I thank you for your concern and advice though.  :) ~ J.Kougar

(Reset indent) Kougar every time you return to the wiki you troll Gaile's talkpage and get banned, then you cry foul and leave. Why is this case any different? Clean the sand out of your vagina and cop the ban, it was warranted and you need to accept that. -- scourge 10:05, 1 April 2008 (UTC)

How is it warranted? Why am I the only one held to the rules? Oh, and for your information, I come and go off the wiki quite frequently and given I've used it and made hundreds of contributions of images and information to the info pages starting when this wiki first opened, and I've only been banned a couple times... it more than shoots down your statements that I'm banned every time I show up, then leave. I don't ever have to leave because if I want, I can evade the bans forever... but usually I come to some sort of understanding or agreement with the moderators before that becomes necessary, and I then wait out the remainder of my ban, if it was deserved. Heck, last time they couldn't even give me a straight answer as to why I was banned. lol So aside from your post just being more trolling and spouting of random and horribly inaccurate information, do you actually want anything in particular? ...or did you just show up as an example of some of the NPA violations that don't get noticed by the Mods, so long as I'm not the one making them.  :) ~ J.Kougar

"Clean the sand out of your vagina" Yeah, thats a blatant NPA violation. Good job on showing how the majority can break the NPA as much as they want and never suffer the consequences. ~ Sabastian 11:07, 1 April 2008 (UTC)

Yea, but as the Moderators make clear, particulary Aiiane who admited to having no respect for the wiki rules on her own talk page when discussing this issue, they are only interested in enforcing the rules when it's someone they have a vendetta against. ~ J.Kougar

Well, I'm going to bed in a minute. All the excitement seems to have moved over to Aiiane's page anyway. ~ J.Kougar

Back again, sorry for the delay. I didn't give up on the issues, especially after the discussion on Aiiane's page, I just didn't have time to get back here before now. Unlike a lot of folks on the wiki, I actually have a life and loving fiance that come before GW. ~ J.Kougar

Proxy

You're a fundamentally smart person. If you keep coming back on a proxy, sure, the noticeboard will be flooded. Oh well. But if you simply accept the block, and come back, everyone will look upon you favorably. Simply sit back for a few days, calm down, and come back as J. Kougar with a level head, and stay away from the "violating discussions". If you keep coming back on proxies, you're digging yourself a very deep hole that you can't climb back out of. Calor 01:01, 3 April 2008 (UTC)

Actually I'm a very mellow guy, I don't get worked up much, especially over silly online stuff. I get highly amused at times, often by this wiki, but I can't possibly "calm down" and get any more "level headed" that I already am.  ;)

I can't accept the block though, it's an unjust one that the majority of the block time was contributed to things that were claimed to be NPA violations, yet they were the same things that the bureaucrat Aiiane is getting away with. How can it really be an NPA violation when I say it, and not when she says the exact same thing in the same insulting manner, to other people? You see my dilemma, and why I have to continue to return?

Besides, I'm already a little bit too unliked for actually speaking my mind in a calm and professional manner... and because of this, and the fact that I point out rule violations even if they are by the popular folks like Gaile Gray, I tend to get persecuted to the maximum and beyond just for looking at someone funny.  ;) Just backing down and accepting an unjust block would not win me any points with these people. ~ J.Kougar

Drama, much? j/k What I am mad at that people prosecute others for the simpliest reasons. Hello!; America is a war, economic crisis, medical crisis, immigration crisis, freedom/religious crisis... and people bother about the most minute deatils. However Hitler's reign of terror started with bullying so there is that, "When will they snap?" factor as well. There is a fine line between voicing your opinoin and starting war. :P I know it didn't make much sense and it could be too liberally applied but I prefer it that way....lol at irony. Lost-Blue 01:47, 3 April 2008 (UTC)

Arbitration case

You are now unblocked to take part in your arbitration case. Please restrict your comments to that area until it is resolved :) - anja 12:13, 6 April 2008 (UTC)

I thought you may find it informative

that people don't generally like it shoved in their face that you're right - regardless of whether or not you actually are. That's not to say that you do so, but from what I've seen, you're very good at telling people why you're right - and that's how they're going to feel about it. Unfortunately, this tends to piss people off. Most people - or at least myself and a number of people I know - will deal with this for a bit (because, let's be frank, how much are you going to care about a random guy that pisses you off once?), but when it happens repeatedly, it gets annoying and, some would say, disruptive, and that's not something the wiki's designed for.

I've heard claims that you've "abused your right of open communication" and that you've "personally attacked many users on the wiki", for starters. It really doesn't matter, though, because if people feel that you're harassing them/shoving things in their face/being rude/"being a dick" (as it's so fondly called in some circles), the wiki gives them the right to ask you to change your behavior and bring it to sysop attention.

This policy from another wiki keeps popping into my head as I read more about the situation. You may find it an interesting read; you may find it a waste of time and deem me a raving madhead. If you do choose to spend your time reading it, I would pay particular attention to the second paragraph in the first section. Of course, you have different priorities in your life than I, so you may find said paragraph unhelpful.

We've had our history (of which I'm not proud of, and would rather the specifics not be mentioned), but I thought I'd make an attempt to provide a neutral, omniscient point of view on your situation. By my logic, the worst case scenario would be that I would fail and you would hate me for life, but that really doesn't seem like you. In fact, most of the time I get the feeling that you're sitting back at your computer smiling at the... foolishness, silliness, something... of it all as you post. So I figured it would be worth a shot, and who knows? Maybe I've been useful for once, and you found these four paragraphs valuable in some way. If not, well... I already have practice in being dumb around you, yeah? :)

-- Armond Warblade 08:24, 9 April 2008 (UTC)