Feedback talk:Game updates/20120123

Let's hope we get WoC part 3!!!! Devi 00:13, 24 January 2012 (UTC)

Wild Throw

With that Paragon change... I still am not sure why they haven't just gotten rid of secondary professions altogether yet. They keep making more and more changes against them. --96.235.47.174 00:29, 24 January 2012 (UTC)

I feel the same way, really starting to wonder why bother with secondaries.... 00:32, 24 January 2012 (UTC)

They made warriors unable to use secondary paragon so that monks could use secondary warrior without consequence. — Raine Valen 1:30, 24 Jan 2012 (UTC)

People are acting like stance removal is no longer in the game. :| [ Tyloric ] [ Talk ] 02:02, 24 January 2012 (UTC)

No, people are acting like there are no viable stance removals in game, unless you run a sin. Wild strike, that's it. That is the only non elite stance killer that wont ruin the entire bar, and you can't run this on a warrior.Crucifix 02:28, 24 January 2012 (UTC)

Or if you run a Paragon... Random Weird Guy 09:00, 24 January 2012 (UTC)

You should try whirling your axe around mans. --Silven 11:50, 24 January 2012 (UTC)

too bad thats an elite 85.178.230.165 22:05, 24 January 2012 (UTC)

Was addressing the derp comment above. --Silven 00:45, 25 January 2012 (UTC)

Don't be stupid. The secondary profession thing is one of GW's stronger points, but it's open to abuse. A War taking Wild Throw is a bit silly, because he doesn't actually need any points in Spear Mastery to benefit from it. This does suggest that certain stances are too powerful, because they can't be countered, but not only are there other stance removal skills, there are also unblockability ones which get by most of the Monk-employed defensive stances. (WM) 2.24.248.44 22:49, 25 January 2012 (UTC)

Spirit Bond

Well that's an interesting change to Spirit Bond. [ Tyloric ] [ Talk ] 00:47, 24 January 2012 (UTC)

Nerf-bat! Blam!! -- Magic Talk 00:57, 24 January 2012 (UTC)

Correct me if I'm wrong, but reducing the threshold to 50 seems like it will make the skill better, as you will take less damage but still be healed. --Musha 03:28, 24 January 2012 (UTC)

Hmm... does this mean we'll have to rename 600 to 500? :D -- Hong 08:49, 24 January 2012 (UTC)

@Musha: Someone has formatted the page with categories after my comment was made. The comment was a generic statement and not directed specifically at Spirit Bond. I may move the comment to it's own section at a later time; however, it seems like a waste of time. -- Magic Talk 05:30, 24 January 2012 (UTC)

The whole idea of 600 monks is misleading anyway, since it worked with less than 600hp, or even slightly more. Random Weird Guy 12:16, 24 January 2012 (UTC)

the 600 tank works with anywhere from 1hp to 20000hp. The ideal hp is around 800hp due to the damage reflected by smite skills. YoUrMoM --The preceding unsigned comment was added by 137.82.65.155 (talk).

It wouldn't work properly with 20000hp, because you won't be outhealing the damage. Random Weird Guy 15:22, 26 January 2012 (UTC)

Shield of Absorption is maintainable (12-second duration) with a proper setup. If you had 20000 hp, you could probably get by with just SoA and SB; you wouldn't need PS because there'd be no danger of you running out of health before SoA could catch you (which is really all it's for; with a mature SoA, you don't need PS to stay up). SB kicks out, what, 960 health per cast, so up to 5760 health every 12 seconds (per cycle of SoA)? As long as you're not taking that much damage AFTER SoA in a 12-second period, you should be fine. — Raine Valen 18:01, 26 Jan 2012 (UTC)

This was not the original video I was looking for but still shows what I mean. This guy has 2500hp and no shield of absorption. If you understand the tank then you realize your hp doesn't matter except when counting the damage cap on smite skills. This is coming from a guy who used to run people dungeons and doa all day everyday for mad money. YoUrMoM youtube video --The preceding unsigned comment was added by 137.82.65.96 (talk).

I think there is a failure of communication going on here. The name '600 monk' comes from the original build that used the 600HP as a treshold for Spirit Bond to be able to trigger while still being able to profit from Protective Spirit. The build in the vid above is a variation of it using over 2400HP and Life Bond and Life Barrier along with PS to reduce most damage to 60. The builds with less health are not 600 builds because they rely on Shield of Absorption instead, changing the strategy completely.

Now, the 600HP is no longer the treshold, but 500 (and if the above build is still viable, 2000). So the name '600 monk' is not really applicable anymore. You can still run it with 600 health, of course (though PS will reduce less damage so it is usually counter-productive) but that is not where the name is derived from. Koda 23:11, 27 January 2012 (UTC)

The name is "600 monk" because for a few weeks after release, people operated under the false impression that you needed 600 health for it to work, otherwise protective spirit would keep it from triggering. Then everybody realized that was a damnable lie, but the name stuck. You need about 800 health for the build to work at max efficiency with a 16 smite holy wrath (980 or so if he's got 20 smiting). –Jette 23:22, 27 January 2012 (UTC)

January 23rd update

→ moved from Feedback talk:Game updates

Dervish: I read the notes, what the hell, all of the problems could've been fixed by removing the Onslaught adrenaline boost. Removing the movement speed boost makes Onslaught a joke. Also, thanks for nerfing it for everyone else just so gvg can get some balance, really, that's where all your players are! ALL OF THEM are in GvG!
Paragon(But really Warrur): "We've seen many Warriors taking this skill without investment in Spear Mastery in order to remove stances. Despite how innovative this is, we feel that this type of skill should require investment in Spear Mastery to be effective" NO. NO. You are lying, you are LYING. If you wanted it to require an investment in spear mastery you'd add "Requires at least such and such spear mastery", but NO, you completely nerfed it for hammer warrurs. COMPLETELY. God forbid melee have some way to counter any of the melee counters, god forbid Warrurs learn how to weapon swap in order to land a slick qknock against a bstance monk, god forbid skillful builds overpower mindless builds, right? I'd be fine with investing 5 or 6 spear. Hell, I used to run 10 spear in my hammer build, but I can't even do crazy shit like that now, because Anet doesn't want innovation, Anet seems to just want easy to use pvx builds to dominate pvp.
That's all I'm mad about, that's it, those really are two of the stupidest updates I've seen in a long time, especially with the lousy-ass excuses you gave, Anet. Just lousy.--Gerroh 01:02, 24 January 2012 (UTC)

You seem to be getting very worked up over some very minor changes. o-o [ Tyloric ] [ Talk ] 01:12, 24 January 2012 (UTC)

He is getting worked up, but he does explain his point, and well, it does make sense. Having this skill requires 5 Spear mastery would have solved the problem, without the side affects. Frizz Meister 01:17, 24 January 2012 (UTC)

I could be wrong but...don't warriors have a stance counter in every attribute? They can counter stances already Lou Wolfskin 01:24, 24 January 2012 (UTC)

I think the point of the change to Wild Strike was so that you couldn't immediately follow up with your combo. Compare to say, Wild Blow with removes all adrenaline. This is still a viable skill. [ Tyloric ] [ Talk ] 01:28, 24 January 2012 (UTC)

Warrior stance removals, with the exception of Whirling Axe, are rubbish. For warriors, anyway. — Raine Valen 1:29, 24 Jan 2012 (UTC)

Thats right Whirling -> crap coz no dam... Forceful Blow -> crap coz no KD... only useful and unconditional KD is devastating hammer, rest too expensive or useless cause you cant maintain KD in time of adrenaline gain, you indeed need a KD as elite on hamwar if you want to play efficiant. wild blow -> USELESS coz no adrenaline, only useful for sins --Kali Shin Shivara 04:35, 24 January 2012 (UTC)

So the over all point of this update is. If you use a weapon to kill you get nerfed. If you use sparkly fairy dust to kill, you dust is now sparklier and dustier than ever... have fun.98.190.12.208 01:48, 24 January 2012 (UTC)

@Tyloric: But it's still more stupid to add recharge since it makes you lose all adrenaline. Many stances last quite a little time anyway (even longer ones like bstance) so it's not really worth it removing a stance, then waiting 3 seconds and only then start rebuilding adrenaline for your skill, or even using Bull's to stop monks from kiting. If disabling skills wouldn't cause loss of all adrenaline, it wouldn't have killed the innovation behind the whole thing. Afaik, we were given secondary professions so we could actually make use of them, but what's the point if every effective such as this, innovative combination gets nerfed like Wild Throw now? Mediggo 02:09, 24 January 2012 (UTC)

ok derv update was a joke until now... only ons was played in every PvP area... BUT this is a nearly fullnerf of ons like in the past, but it force runner to use gust... we got a new meta... ons+shockaxe+gust runner hooooorray. same shit as always buff -> nerf... lets hope they rollback that elementalist crap faster 'coz most of last changes are quite too powerful. Obsidian Flame is the only real nerf? cant be serious... Spirit Bond - easy to see that the balance team wants to force but its kinda worthless, spikeshit is always overused 'coz its easier to play and the good pvp guys left gw for a good reason, actual gameplay is a BAD JOKE. Wild Throw - RiP actual Quarterknock and main war in split teams same crap as wild blow and wont be used anymore on war. RA is again monks domain more buffed than before 'coz an essential skill is missing now. Enraged Smash - Also RIP ESSpammer -> Only 2 builds are meta actually BB Stuff and QK, also brings back berserker stance and battle rage. Next meta -> Forceful Blow + QK imho. This time it seems they was more drunken when balancing than before. Damage over from doublecasts aren't noticed but tripmelee as possible counter is nerfed now to compensate it with doubledragon on your own team? oO... please buff rainbow ways or AP spikes much more... unskilled gameplay ftw. only thing thats positive: bala will come back for a short moment. very disappointing... same as usually: buff one class and nerf 2-3 others... --Kali Shin Shivara 04:25, 24 January 2012 (UTC)

Speaking entirely in hypotheticals here: imagine wild throw had a requirement instead of a disable. Something reasonably high, say, 9 spear mastery. That means a warrior would have to split 12/9/9 to meet the requirement. Tell me: when was the last time a warrior was really hurt by losing 3-5 points in Strength? If the requirement had been 12, people would bitch just as much because "OMG you have to give up strength!" Perhaps, hypothetically, this is part of a change to the metagame that would hypothetically happen over the next few hypothetical months. And in this context, "hypothetically" means "Robert said it in his journal." –Jette 04:33, 24 January 2012 (UTC)

This only changes my gear a litte, sentinel -> out, survivor -> in... headgear str 1+2, 12+1 on hammer 13-12-9 instead of 14-13-3 only difference i get raped more by actual ele over... thats all --Kali Shin Shivara 04:48, 24 January 2012 (UTC)

Blah Blah Blah Blah! All this meles can talk is rubbish! How dare you talk of balance when all you can play is a retarded KD lock, deep wound spamm build? Get real, a kd warrior is not better than a Kd ele. --The preceding unsigned comment was added by 86.16.90.207 (talk) at 06:45, 24 January 2012 (UTC).
I, for one, eagerly await the balance patch for when they discover that Avatar of Balthazar, Pious Fury and Rending Aura have 'too good of synergy.' < /sarcasm>-- ᴥ GreyGhost (talk!) ᴥ 11:40, 24 January 2012 (UTC)

In regard to the original complaint about Onslaught, I am frustrated but for different reasons. ANet has made another skill one of those elite's that people wonder why they exist, removing the 25% IAS and keeping the IMS would have still kept the skill viable. Plus Onslaught still takes up two skill slots due to the duration, which is really lame... Alas, it is only Grenth and Balthazar that remain as highly effective elite skills. Lyssa and Ebon Dust Aura a notch below them. 76.181.167.16 22:56, 24 January 2012 (UTC)

It's hilarious how Gerroh claims that warriors lack counter-counterskills, while the whole point of the nerf was that KD lock was too strong... I guess he's just a little butthurt because now, he can lose while gvg'ing. 94.212.57.91 19:54, 25 January 2012 (UTC)

Bye Bye dervs in gvg. No one runs them anymore. Back to warriors. Thanks anet. PS I agree that the IMS should have stayed while the IAG should have kept this skill viable. YoUrMoM --The preceding unsigned comment was added by 137.82.65.155 (talk).

Nah, people will break out a build that's one of the best kept secrets. Wounding Strike Wind Prayers Dervish. The Harrier's Flash enchants, Rending Aura, Test of Faith, Wounding Strike, Lyssa's Assault, Heart of Fury. -- 76.181.167.16 00:25, 26 January 2012 (UTC)

That build was used a while ago. I used to use a similar build with conjure. Then they nerfed wounding strike, heart of fury, harrier's haste and harrier's grasp zzz. YoUrMoM --The preceding unsigned comment was added by 137.82.65.155 (talk).

Heart of Fury is the only one of those I remember being nerfed since the Dervish update. Regardless it's still effective. 76.181.167.16 01:29, 26 January 2012 (UTC)

Setting precedent for nerfing GW2

These nonsense nerfs (especially for dervish) are setting a precedent for what will happen in GW2. They see an apparent imbalance in PvP and they make a change that also affects PvE. Especially stupid to change the PvE-only skills that are unusable in PvP. They see creative builds and decide that they don't like the way folks are building their skill bars and teams, so they NERF. I don't care much for PvP. I am almost exclusively PvE. So why am I being punished by lame nerfs aimed at "balancing" PvP? Each time these idiotic PvE nerfs appear, it gives me more reason not to play GW and to beware of GW2. If they ruin GW, then what's stopping them from ruining GW2? 24.8.249.129 02:12, 24 January 2012 (UTC)

Meh, this is kind of knee-jerk. Dervs are fine in pve, as onslaught was just so so there. You're still better off running pious spam and the slight cripple nerf coupled with the extra adren for wearying will be unnoticeable. GW2 pvp is looking like faceroll 1234 as is.Crucifix 02:35, 24 January 2012 (UTC)

Actually, since you don't have full control over you bar (skills come in like batches linked to your weapon), they'll take away that right. Or if they exist, they won't be super strong. I predict PvP will be slow instead, due to the clusterfuck/maximalism changes: all the physical things added (weapon kits, turrets, illusions, banners, symbols, etc), multiple bars giving you more choice of what to do, larger numbers. More variables means longer time needed to process what to do. Previously Unsigned 10:46, 24 January 2012 (UTC)

Yeah, I can see how GW2 PVP will be faceroll/1234. What with the immense amount of movement/ground control required in the game, and all. Casting while moving, dodge-rolling, the tactical placement of skills, skill combinations working together. The facerollers will end up getting roflstomped anyway. Even though I'm an exclusive PVE player, I don't even mind the nerfs. If your builds are so "creative" that nerfing one skill ruins them, you could just...you know, make another creative build. That's what I do when skills get nerfed. Remake builds differently. That's what nerfs and buffs are supposed to accomplish. I wish MORE skills would get nerfed, to be honest. 67.249.56.234 11:53, 24 January 2012 (UTC)

@24.8.249.129, you forget that with GW2 there are no secondary professions, skills are modular, fewer skills, and all the professions were made at the same time, meaning their roles are better set. Secondary professions only made balancing 10 times harder in GW1. Modular skills means that they only need to focus on the one module that is causing a problem with the skill's usage, be it an effect, damage, or combination effect. Much easier to balance with how they have it structured now. Less skills means just that, less to worry about balancing. The environmental skills will likely rarely if ever get changed cause their use will be limited, and the rest less so due to the fact that the secondary is gone, they don't need to worry about overpowered combinations as much. Lastly having all the professions made at once means that their roles will be clearly defined as compared to GW1 professions. The paragon doesn't really have a role anymore due to the fact that the profession isn't specialized as much as the other classes are. Dont jump to conclusions about what GW2 will be like just based off of GW1, which has a skeleton crew right now working day in day out to appease all the whiny players out there (likely more people complained about these skills being BAD than them being good, and they DO play test options to skills, so Im assuming that this fix was the best option). A lil research goes a long way -_- —Neithan Diniem 17:33, 24 January 2012 (UTC)

@67.249.56.234, The only problem with that, I find, is a lack of ability to be creative. People find synergy in skills and put them together, this later gets overused and then nerfed in such a way that prevents that skill from being viable with any other, ie. Seeping Wound. So what ends up happening is you end up with 120 skills for a profession, fifteen or twenty that are useful; monks, warriors and assassins I find, have very few skill sets that are effective. Remember the last time as an assassin you could be something other than support without a PvX build? I've spent hours building bars for the assassin, but all of my critical skills keep getting nerfed. Warriors have a plethora of skills that are just useless, as with monks, but Divine Favor also restricts for creativity with a second profession. As a result, I use only a few professions in PvP, not that I play hardly at all anymore. (To be honest, I am skeptical on GW2, and am probably going to wait to hear reviews before buying it...) 66.41.96.3 22:54, 24 January 2012 (UTC)

67.249, the average individual is not a masochist. We do not enjoy creating something just to watch someone else destroy it. However, anybody who still plays after years of ArenaNet repeating the same process shouldn't really have much to complain about. There is plenty to enjoy within GW. Character design, split PvP/PvE, minimal level grinding (if any), and more. There is also plenty to dislike. Very limited landscape exploration, very little diversity in completion of objectives (always "kill foe to win"), no official player-to-player marketplace, (most importantly) frequent nerfs/changes and more. That's just how it is. If you can get over ArenaNet's constant fumbling over nigh impossible to balance skills and mechanics (due mostly to poorly conceived expansions), and you don't mind being unable to explore roughly 35% of any landscape you can see, then Guild Wars is still a fine game. If these things are enough to turn you away, you probably won't be here to care about any of this anyway. 76.106.241.157 01:51, 25 January 2012 (UTC)

76.106, Don't get me wrong, I'm not dissing the game, but their skills updates. I know this is a great game: I almost got to GWAMM and have 50/50 HoM with every profession level 20--all I have left to do for fun is PvP, so it's worth checking into every once and a while. I loved the mesmer update a while back, for example, and I'm not saying you "enjoy watching someone else destroy [the skillls]," just that it happens because of some of their illogical updates. A previous section in this discussion suggested a better update to Wild Throw, which made perfect sense, it just sucks to see ANet making these abstract nerfs to skills, while there's already so many useless ones. Instead of destroying the skill to prevent the build, change it to make it usable but not OP. 66.41.96.3 02:06, 25 January 2012 (UTC)

I understand that. I feel the same way about the SoS nerf. Nerfing Painful Bond would have been a more logical course, but ArenaNet seems to make these poorly implemented changes just to have an excuse to make more changes in the future (instead of doing things right the first time) probably to give players a reason to believe they still care. Unfortunately, the senselessness of some of these changes implies they don't. It feels more like trolling than anything else. 76.106.241.157 21:58, 25 January 2012 (UTC)

ANet framed Oswald to collateralize their network hardware loan. –Jette 22:15, 25 January 2012 (UTC)

Don't be silly. The Derv nerfs were entirely justified. The problem with Onslaught is that it pretty much needs Extend Enchantments. It also takes up your elite slot. So, in terms of bar compression, it's not really better than an IAS + an IMS. Sure it can be kept up and gives adrenaline, but that's why it's elite. So I agree that perhaps removing the speed boost wasn't the best. Maybe reducing to 15%, and/or altering the adrenaline or something. However it needed to be nerfed. The other nerfs were pretty minor. I'm not sure how necessary they were, but a general Dervish tone-down is not such a big deal. As far as "lame nerfs affecting PvE" go, many of these were PvP-only. The ones which weren't won't really hurt anyone. Maybe Spirit Bond, but tbh, I don't care so much. Most people are using Rit healers anyway. (WM) 2.24.248.44 22:58, 25 January 2012 (UTC)

What i truly wonder about is why people use Extend Enchantments with onlsaught in PvP. If you but enough points in wind and use an enchantment mod the downtime is minimal, the only profit it will have is that you will waste less energy recasting it. To me maintaining it with such a short downtime just isn't worth the skill slot. Well with that Extend Enchantments can now be replaced with an IMS. Da Mystic Reaper 14:04, 26 January 2012 (UTC)

It's because with less points in Wind Prayers, you can put points in actually useful things (WM). 2.24.248.44 12:42, 28 January 2012 (UTC)

Dartboard

for both the changes and the reasoning. Sins are in a good place? Earth eles are viable (outside maybe Stone Sheath, which doesn't really compete with bsurge)? Mel's is "quality of life"? R/P and A/P are "legitimate builds"? Am I missing something here? -- Armond Warblade 01:20, 28 January 2012 (UTC)

Insider secret: I write all the update notes. I don't know which skills they'll apply to, either; I just throw [SKILLNAME] in and let the web people slot the right skill name in. –Jette 08:22, 28 January 2012 (UTC)

Earth Eles have fallen out of fashion because people prefer to pewpew with lightning, but Unsteady Ground is still great, and Stoning spam annoying as hell in RA. And what's wrong with R/P and A/P? (WM) 2.24.248.44 12:46, 28 January 2012 (UTC)

Assassin nerf

So I've been wondering for quite some time now... Why does everyone (mostly devs) seem to forget that sins have the most "fragile" attack mechanic in the game? One, they're melee, so they have to reach the enemy first (only applies to dervs and warriors apart from sins, one could argue about paras as they have to precharge their adrenaline to be able to do anything), by which time they're probably already blinded 10 times, hexed another 10 times. Two, their attack skills (apart from leads, that is) are ALL conditional. Just interrupt ONE of their attack, and all they can do is tickle the enemy. Yet you nerf them even more. D-shot/diversion on lead? "LULZ NO SIN KEKEKEK!" Is ANet really trying to get rid of them in PvP completely? Just like it seems to be the case with Paragons? For the past year I believe I've seen nothing but constant nerfs to sins and mostly buffs to everything else (everyting eles ;->). Not to mention how blind's everywhere now, I wouldn't be surprised if next update made Flare blind too. Right now, as I see it - melee classes don't have much to counter casters, yet casters have LOTS of possibilities against melees. Am I missing something? 79.139.2.195 14:30, 28 January 2012 (UTC)

This game would be better if assassins were removed from the game tomorrow. Why? Because the entire concept of the class has no place in GW. In order to contribute to a team, actually balanced physicals (warriors and rangers, and to a lesser extend dervishes) have to bring a couple of attack skills to assist in killing stuff, some skills to hamper your enemy's ability to kill your party members, and the stuff that makes your build work like an IAS or auto-covering. And of course res sig.

Now, as an assassin, you first need 4 or 5 skills to pull off an attack without being easily mitigated by the enemy team. You have almost nothing to support your party with because those options are either in the middle of an attack chain or half-ranged, if you have room for those kind of skills at all. Since Factions release assassins have been borked, because a gank class without any strategic element that ignores every limitation that balanced physicals have, does not have any place in a game where skill matters. That is why they have been nerfed so often. Koda 12:23, 29 January 2012 (UTC)

So I heard splits exist. --Silven 13:45, 29 January 2012 (UTC)

I consider "killing the mesmer before he does anything" a great defensive tactic. That's why the nerfs annoy me - you used to be able to kill casters (i.e. low-armour characters) with a well-timed surprise spike. One. Now the assassins have to execute the chain twice or something like that. Which implies a loooong recharge too. BTW. I used to play them a lot, really a lot. And most (if not all) of my builds had interrupts, cripple and/or knockdowns. All of these to a) help during the spike (mostly snare here) to ensure the enemy won't kite or b) prevent the monk - if he's being spiked - from easily countering (i.e. healing self in the middle of the spike) it. I'm not sure whether your "game would be better if assassins were removed" remark was sarcastic or not, but if not - I completely disagree. Removing content from the game is never a good idea. Balancing it, maybe. Same applies to paragons. 79.139.2.195 14:56, 29 January 2012 (UTC)

Yes, assassins make other physicals look useless if they would not be nerfed to oblivion because they do not use adrenaline and ignore positioning. The only other physical class that comes close to that does not nearly enough damage to be problematic (though it has been problematic in the past). Koda 15:38, 29 January 2012 (UTC)

Which was the reason I believed their previously mentioned "fragile attack mechanic" was needed (otherwise they would be way too overpowered). Now they lack both. Or - in fact - everything. I'm such a sadpanda.jpg now. Oh, now that I think about it, it's not like assassins are great in PvE either... saddesthystericalpanda.jpg 79.139.2.195 16:31, 29 January 2012 (UTC)

Do you like... not bring any melee buffs at all when you go to PvE? Sins are the best damage-dealing class in the game for PvE, but only if you don't bring random builds on everyone. -- Armond Warblade 17:37, 29 January 2012 (UTC)

A case where the paragon is useful for once. Buffing a sin up with anthems and shouts works very nicely. Da Mystic Reaper 13:19, 30 January 2012 (UTC)

Finished Nightfall with a paragon, Factions with an assassin. They can be both nice (and definitely are fun to play), but that wasn't the point. AoE eles are probably more useful. But nevermind - we're going offtopic here... 79.139.2.195 17:07, 30 January 2012 (UTC)

Well you can better say caster vs martial, wich is better, most of the time it's caster. Da Mystic Reaper 17:38, 30 January 2012 (UTC)

When introduced to the game, Assassins used to be great. I'm sure many people remember these:

Expose Defenses

Shadow Prison

Black Lotus Strike

Twisting Fangs

Black Spider Strike

Blades of Steel

Tiger Stance

Resurrection Signet

Nobody could survive this.

Deadly Paradox

Shadow Form

Augury of Death

Dancing Daggers

Entangling Asp

Signet of Toxic Shock

optional

Restore Life

Nobody could kill this. EVER. 100% maintained alone and didn't need energy management.

But now that SF is sorta dead and PvP is fucked up with blind and hex overdose, assassins are now the most worthless class ever. Even behind paragons. →[ »Halogod (talk)« ]← 08:37, 9 February 2012 (UTC)

Hahahah, I remember that shadow form build. Well can't disagree the SF nerf was needed. I don't even think such a skill has a place in PvP at all. Anyway, doesn't matter. I just got my lead d-chopped and couldn't do a thing in a match, so I came back to see if anyone posted anything here. Nerf assassins some more, ANet. Oh and we need more blind. I'm going mesmer once I change my ISP to something not lagged to hell. 79.139.2.195 13:27, 16 February 2012 (UTC)