Feedback talk:User/Damysticreaper/Paragon skills

Boro is organizing a Paragon Focus Group, check it out! ^_^ And thanks for the Lightbringer ideas! --Falconeye 23:59, 4 May 2011 (UTC)

Vocal was Sogolon might as well post any ideas you have on how to improve this skill for both the paragon and ritualist; and other paragon secondaries as well. Also Mantras as Chants if you havent done so already. --Falconeye 17:30, 10 May 2011 (UTC)

I'm thinking of splitting all of the chants into pvp versions similar to mostly unchanged of how they are now and decrease the limitations of the pve versions. Any opinions on it? Da Mystic Reaper 23:56, 20 July 2011 (UTC)

Sorry to say but as a Paragon lover (for as long as Nightfall exists) I've got to say I don't love all these changes (some are great though!) --The Holy Dragons 16:16, 21 July 2011 (UTC)

It would be more helpful if you could name wich and why so i can adjust them if needed. Da Mystic Reaper 17:03, 21 July 2011 (UTC)

People say the paragon is way too underpowered atm (which isn't even that true) but you're making them overpowered! an anthem that could be held up permanently which provides 100% extra healing, +4 HP regen and extra healing with the first phew skills! wow O.O (I must say I'd love it!) but it's too OP. --The Holy Dragons 17:25, 21 July 2011 (UTC)

I agree with you with you when you say it isn't too underpowered, it's just underpowered. The only useful line it has is command wich has some nice skills, however the class itself is still suffering from underpoweredness due to the lack of balance and proper counters. Anyways it seems that Song of Restoration is OP, well it ends after the spell counts have been consumed as all other chants do, so unless you don't cast spells or keep you spell ammounts within the spell limit it cannot be maintained. The healing buff i can easily reduce and i do plan to give the PvP split a different functionality then it now has, like i plan on doing to all the remaining chants in Motivation. Any other likes and dislikes? It would help me to know wich skills are good and wich are not. Da Mystic Reaper 17:44, 21 July 2011 (UTC)

The chants look like you tried way too hard to compress every mechanic to be in a chant:

• Anthem of Disruption — makes attacks into scythes/Volley spam?
• Crippling Anthem — mass-AoE Splinter Weapon.
• Defensive Anthem — attacks cannot miss?
• Chorus of Restoration — armor against elemental damage?
• Energizing Chorus — blocking?
• Lyric of Zeal — HCT?
• Lyric of Purification — HSR?

Maybe I'm being too picky on naming/function, but none of these make sense. •••Mora 18:32, 21 July 2011 (UTC)

The naming of the chants in motivation mainly doesn't allow much flexibility wich makes it very difficult to give them some proper functions. What i tried is to give them aditional functions other than a name-bound function, it may seem a bit off but it's the only thing i could come up with to give them an actual improvement. But i gues it would be better to explain my thought behind their function.

• Anthem of Disruption - like to other anthems i wanted to give this one a passive offensive support and something that goes with it's function. For that i looked at Distracting Blow wich interrupts adjacent foes but limited it to 2 foes only like the scythe.
• Crippling Anthem - for this function i looked at Splinter Mine following the name function of that i ended up giving it a function similar to Splinter Weapon but one that deals piercing damage and thus affected by armor rating.
• Defensive Anthem - changed into an anthem that makes sure you do damage with your attacks by making you more resilient while attacking so you don't have to use skills to defend yourself, unable to be interrupted to make sure you can continue attacking and the unable to miss effect to bypass blind to make sure you hit.
• Choruses - giving casters some aditional defense albeit limited to melee and elemental damage only. The idea for their effects came from "Stand Your Ground!" actually, a function that gives defense similar to a shout while under the effect of a shout.
• Lyrics - functions that i had already in mind when i planned this suggestion. I decided to give them to the Lyrics since they seemed to be the best choise in my view and how i changed the function of the Lyrics.

Well Motivation still needs to be adjusted for PvP they will end up a bit different for that format. If you would ask me you arn't too picky with the name seeing the names of all those skills and them having weird functions totally different that goes with their names. Da Mystic Reaper 20:04, 21 July 2011 (UTC)

Mending Refrian - the mending Skill nomenclature is associated with "condition-removal". ^_^ --Falconeye 00:28, 23 November 2011 (UTC)

Is it? In my observation Mending represents healing, and in case of the prot skills healing on removal (With the exception of the elite Restore Condition). Da Mystic Reaper 20:59, 29 November 2011 (UTC)

leadership

2011

"For every 3 ranks of leadership once every 5 seconds when you use a shout or chant you gain 1 energy for each ally affected by your shout or chant (maximum of 15 energy by this effect). For every 5 ranks of leadership once every 5 seconds when you use a shout or chant you gain 1 strike of adrenaline (maximum of 4 strikes of adrenaline by this effect). "

so if I read this right, if I have 12 leadership and I use SY, I gain 7 * (12/3) = 21 + cap = 15 energy every time I use it once every 5 seconds? and I also gain 2 adrenaline? and in pve it also lasts 48% longer? that's pretty amazing/overpowered 24.130.140.36 00:41, 31 July 2011 (UTC)

You have read it correctly, and indeed only 2 since my intention is to have the cap bypass Focused Anger and For Great Justice. Because the paragon uses both energy and adrenaline shouts i wanted to give Leadership to return adrenaline as well besides just energy. I also wanted to make the energy gain be effective in smaller teams and ended up on that effect. I'm still thinking to change he method of the energy gain and adrenaline gain and maybe reducing the cap of the enery gain due to a change to multiple shouts and the chants. The last effect of the shouts duration increase is something i am also thinking about due to the limited ammount of shouts that could actually benefit from it. I limited the effect to shouts lasting longer than 5 seconds but for SY! not to benefit it it would need to be reduced to a max duration from 6 to 5. It also prevents my version of Incoming! from being extended and it limit's the duration of Don't Trip as well. Right now the only skills i could think of that can actually benefit from it's effect are I Am Unstoppable!, There's Nothing To Fear!, Stand Your Ground!, Fall Back!, Shields Up!, Charge!, Retreat! and For Great Justice!. All other shouts with a duration and not located in strength can be easily maintained so it does't make a very large ammount of shouts to benefit from it. Untill i come up with a viable effect replacing it the limitation cap will have to do for now. Da Mystic Reaper 12:32, 1 August 2011 (UTC)

Well i ended up removing the shout extending effect due to the balance with SY! and a lack of shouts that can benefit from it. I'm still concidering to add an effect that scales on each rank that benefits your allies for PvE only. The energy and adrenaline gain have also been altered. I hope this is better for now. Da Mystic Reaper 17:24, 14 August 2011 (UTC)

re 12/12, no one cares because 12/12 is usually bad and paragons especially need a third line to support their utility :/ -- Armond Warblade 14:17, 11 October 2011 (UTC)

2014

• Focused Anger

5 60 Elite Skill (45 seconds). You generate 1 adrenaline every second and gain 100...140...150% more adrenaline.

Super-Saiyan? Idea came from this: Unforgiving. For price of elite, warriors/paragons/dervishes have maintainable upkeep outside of combat. Very hero friendly. And yes, the 100% technically doubles the generation rate (assuming the gain rate behaves as expected.

--Falconeye (talk) 10:39, 24 December 2014 (UTC)

Looking at the effect of Unforgiving, Focused Anger does not seem to be the most ideal skill candidate tbh. However, I have been looking for a second effect for Anthem of Fury since my other elite Anthems have 2 effects as well. Da Mystic Reaper (talk) 21:25, 25 December 2014 (UTC)

Maybe add "Attack skills deals +10...22...25 damage. Your other attack skills are disabled (5...2...1 second{s}) if this attack hits. cause from Focused Shot to Focused Anger? Also if your are looking for fresh ideas, I recommend using that link to check out the Crusader and Monk skills (for you guardian, samurai, and monk projects); the Demon Hunter is pretty badass as well. ^_^ And how about this for the Paragon, Warrior or Weapon mods?

Unity - Each ally affected by your Echoes increases your damage by 5...9...10% (maximum of 30%); your allies have 5% increased damage.

Heavenly Strength - You can wield a two-handed weapon in your main hand while bearing a shield in your off hand. Your damage dealt is reduced by 20%.

--Falconeye (talk) 10:32, 29 December 2014 (UTC)

"Maybe add "Attack skills deals +10...22...25 damage. Your other attack skills are disabled (5...2...1 second{s}) if this attack hits. cause from Focused Shot to Focused Anger?" Did you forget my ranger suggestion? I overhauled the effect of Focused Shot because of the disable time it gives. It is definitely not something I'm going to give to an elite skill like Focused Anger. Focused Anger has been designed to quickly charge adrenaline skills and at a higher investment does a very good job at it, I only changed the minimum gain from 10% to 100% so it useful at a lower to medium investment as well. It's biggest advantage is to fuel adrenaline for shouts and chants, if you want a high adrenaline income for attack skills you are better off using Soldier's Fury. So giving it damage for offensive purpose does not seem to be the best way to take it. Since it is mainly used to fuel shouts and chants I would give it a second function that supports the use of echoes instead. "Your echoes recharge 4...9...10% (maximum of 50%) faster for each strike of adrenaline you have." I would add a function like this instead of a damage buff. Da Mystic Reaper (talk) 20:06, 29 December 2014 (UTC)

Evidently, I need to re-read your feedback articles, as I've been away long enough to have missed that one. Happy New Year! ^_^

Anthems

Anthem of Fury 5 1 10 Elite Chant (10 seconds). Target ally gains 0...1...1 strike of adrenaline every 2 seconds. Target ally gains 1...3...3 strike[s] of adrenaline for the next 1...3...3 attack skill[s].

Anthem of Guidance 4 1 Elite Chant (10 seconds). Target ally loses 2 conditions and is unblockable for the next 1...3...3 attack skill[s].

Crippling Anthem 5 1 Elite Chant (10 seconds). Target ally inflict crippled condition (3...10...12 second[s]) to the target and deals 5...41...50 piercing damage to adjacent foes for the next 1...3...3 attack skill[s].

Defensive Anthem 10 1 15 Elite Chant (10 seconds). Target ally has 25...65...75% chance to block. Target ally cannot be interrupted for the next 1...3...3 attack skill[s].

Comments

these are awesome! I'm am tempted to ask Joe Kimmes to implement these immediately. ^_^ --Falconeye (talk) 10:32, 29 December 2014 (UTC)

Overpowered

I've only looked through about 30 of your suggestions so far all but two (Signet of Aggression and Remedy Signet) that I looked at would be very overpowered. Some, such as Cautery Signet, Anthem of Envy, and "Help Me!", don't make sense for their names. Many of them look like changes just for the sake of changes. -- Kirbman 21:14, 10 October 2011 (UTC)

I don't mean to sound harsh here, I just think these are points you should address in your suggestions. -- Kirbman 21:20, 10 October 2011 (UTC)

Balance is something i have been struggling with due to a lack of proper feedback so it's appreciated. I'll relook the balance and then give it another look to balance it out more. But it still remains a difficult thing to do with the chants due to a lack of proper counters, their names and limits to it don't help either. But like all other major paragon suggestions the majority are concept suggestions this suggestion is no different from it, but it does not take away the reason not to rebalance it i admit that myself. The first thing i am going to focus on are the Anthems in the Command line, after that Motivation will have it's turn again. And with explenation for the functions with Cautery Signet, Anthem of Envy and "Help Me!"; With Cautery Signet i wanted to make an elite skill able to cleanse yourself from conditions and hexes and for me it's the best candidate for it, Anthem of Envy buffs damage from attack skills and i stuck to that with the crit hits since they increase damage as well (i know it lacks the word Critical in it but who would care about it), as for "Help Me!" i want the Paragon to have a maintainable self-supportive shouts for skills that require a shout to be active on you to trigger or have effect like the Soldier skills and "Help Me!" with it's current sef-healing effects seemed to be the best candidate for it. There may be some other skills with names that don't quite follow like Anthem of Weariness, "Lead the Way!" and "Make Your Time!" but there is always a reason behind it. Anthem of Weariness' AoE earth damage comes from Earth Magic since it has a lot of weakness requirments and ofc deals earth damage, i went for Earth damage because it's affected by AR and AoE i something the paragon lacks. "Lead the Way!" has been designed to give Motivation a shout equal to what GFtE is for Command but supports the caster classes and a reduction in casting time seemed to be the most reasonable option available and by name would make most sense. "Make Your Time!" can be seen as a counterpart of "Find Their Weakness!" in my suggestion and by effect it has seemed best suited for caster support and the it's name to make the most sense for it. Well i hope that clears thing a bit for you, as well as to understand the reason of my thought behind the skill effects. Tnx for the feedback wich i could really use Da Mystic Reaper 11:27, 11 October 2011 (UTC)

I think the easiest example of OPness in your design would be Incoming!. It's permanent 50% dmg reduction in pvp if you have 2 paras. 82.95.65.117 15:19, 1 July 2012 (UTC)

(Fixed) Anything else? Da Mystic Reaper 15:40, 1 July 2012 (UTC)

Signets

I like your Paragon versions enough to reconsider my non-attribute stance; what if all signets were non-attributes with non-scaling effects locked at 10-15 attribute range? And what if all non-signets were scaleable? Thematically, it would immediately set signet skill-types apart as distinct class; pre-charged "mystic batteries" with comparatively strong effects at no additional investment (relative to non-signets), but requires more time to activate and must 'recharge' its internal energy storage. Based on Anets development of signets as "rings" (i.e. our 8 slot skill builds) and the lore of the gods bringing "magic" to Tyria; I'd imagine Rangers, Warriors, and Ritualists dominated Pre-magic Tyria; and Post-magic, some human or asuran artificer inventing Signets, which gives the lesser-talented folks a competitive edge (or the gifted low on Energy). --Falconeye (talk) 20:41, 18 July 2014 (UTC)

I designed to signets to be usable for the martial professions and I primarily had the warrior in mind when I made the suggestion. Its not like I made them specifically for no Attribute, its just that it is the easiest way for them to be used by secondary professions. The paragon already has a scaling burning condition, good adrenaline management and good energy management. It would only create a needless competition between the others skills if I moved them to a scaling attribute.

Now about that idea of yours. The drawback of that is that multiple skills would need to be redesigned and you are facing a huge balancing issue. Another problem is the lack of signets for the elementalist, and you can't make glyphs copycat skills of signets either. Just how do you plan on balancing Signet of Spirits in the no Attribute line or Signet of Lost Souls. However it would be nice to see signets have a more unique function to them instead of being just free skills, but that also would take a huge amount of rebalancing. Its interesting but I fear the balancing issues (and that's coming from me!). Da Mystic Reaper (talk) 22:38, 18 July 2014 (UTC)