Talk:Rejuvenation

If all 8 party members are in hearshot it heals each one of 30 hp and dies in 3 seconds. This skill really needs a big big tweak.--YukoIshii 19:47, 1 August 2007 (UTC) Not bad, it heals more per second than Recuperation, but is limited by earshot range. Good balance. --Heelz 01:40, 21 July 2007 (UTC)

I think this skill is weak. Level 8 spirit only has 210 health, up to 300 with 16 Spawning (which is pretty unrealistic). At a reasonable 10 Spawning it has 266 health. But that is split between everyone within earshot. Recuperation on the other hand can give 6 health per second (through regeneration) for a longer period of time at a longer range. Life can theoretically heal everyone in spirit range for 140 health. I would make this 5en, 20recharge and test that or do a better balance formula between health gain and spirit life loss. It is too dependent on Spawning, where most of Restoration is not. --Ravious 02:11, 21 July 2007 (UTC)

Yeah but if a person has degen on him/her, then it would cancel out Recuperation. With this, you dont have to worry about degen as much, as it heals a set amount. IMO this is a good AoE heal for ritualists, and with the limitation of earshot range only, it makes for a good balanced spirit.--132.160.31.135 03:27, 21 July 2007 (UTC)

Whether the healing comes from a set number per second or regen makes no difference unless they were over 10 pips. This is like a Union spirit which wastes its health on people who don't need it. --24.179.151.252 05:01, 21 July 2007 (UTC)

Considering how conditional it is, the fragility of spirits and the time taken to lay the spirits down, I'd say the skill warrants a 5e cost rather than 10e. 203.217.0.53 03:55, 21 July 2007 (UTC)

Pretty bad skill... especially if heals at 100% health count to hurt the spirit.--Xapti 05:24, 21 July 2007 (UTC)

Yeah that's what I was thinking as well. It's not the type of spirit you'd want to have pre-summoned before engaging in battle. (Terra Xin 02:37, 22 July 2007 (UTC))

Wow, 10 energy/30 second recharge ritual to heal about 30 health each to an 8 man group. :/ --Redfeather 06:41, 21 July 2007 (UTC)

Ditto, and if it heals people who are at 100% it would be even worse ... Zweistein 09:28, 21 July 2007 (UTC)

It would be better if it just lost 10 health every second it was alive while healing players. Even then it would be a pretty mediocre skill. I can see how it parallels with Spirit Light Weapon (which is a pretty good skill) but this spirit just won't last long enough to be worth it. 3-4 seconds? It takes 3 seconds to cast... Fro 10:51, 21 July 2007 (UTC)

Actually in hindsight, a mere 10 health loss would be crazy. A cap of 30-40 (even on a 40-30 scale) but this thing really needs a cap. Fro 11:21, 21 July 2007 (UTC)

This and Agony really need to have the health loss of the spirit, per ally healed, lowered with increasing attribute levels.--Redfeather 13:12, 21 July 2007 (UTC)

It should heal more hitpoints. Let´s say about 10...17...24 each second with a lowering loss of it´s own healt( maybe like 24...17...10)

I rethought Agony. It's okay for it's energy cost. Rejuvenation on the other hand might need a boost to it's healing. If you are 15 restoration/11 spawning you have a 300 health spirit. Take that 300 and divide by how many party members are in earshot. That's how much each can be healed every 30 seconds, or whatever you lower the recharge to. For example 5 party members would get a 60 heal each over 9 seconds (3s cast, 6s duration of spirit) and you'd have to wait 24 seconds to bind another Rejuvenation.--Redfeather 03:27, 22 July 2007 (UTC)

In ideal circumstances, and ignoring the effects of Signet of Creation, Rejuvenation heals as much damage as Union prevents, is cheaper and recharges faster, but I think that both skills are a bit underpowered. -- Gordon Ecker 08:30, 22 July 2007 (UTC)

But union has bonus of only working on people need it and having much bigger range. And BEST thing is that you can precast union before combat without penalty. This skill must be used in midcombat to be at least a bit effective. If we want comparsions for this skill, Heal Party should be the one to compare it because it has essentially the same purporse

8 man party:

* heal party @4 Healing Prayers outheals Rejuvenation @ 16 Resto.

* heal party @7 HP has already better energy/hitpoints healed cost than Rejuv @ 16

6-man:

* heal party @7 outheals Rejuv @ 16

* heal party @12 matches energy efectiveness of Rejuv @ 16

4-man:

* heal party now needs to be @ 11 HP to heal same amount as Rejuv @ 16

* hp needs 18 at healing prayers to reach Rejuv @ 16 energy effectiveness.

Result: bringing it to party bigger than 4-man is pointless if you can have anyone able to get little healing prayers investment. Zweistein 19:44, 22 July 2007 (UTC)

We can even make comparisons towards Life, which heals just as unconditionally as Rejuvenation, has a greater range, and heals for more beginning from a party size of 2 or 3 upwards. Oh and it's not restricted to party members either :P... Let's not forget the shorter recharge too. It's also effectively healing at 5 health regeneration, whereas Recuperation heals at 3.(Terra Xin 02:18, 23 July 2007 (UTC))

Well, it sounds like this could be a wonderful skill if use correctly. Sure, it might not have as much raw healing power as Heal Party but I think this could make for a wonderful anti-pressure skill. Especally when you combine it with recuperation. Maybe there's some synergy with other skills that no one has looked at yet?

pretty bad skill, should be "This Spirit loses 3...9...10 Health each second" or "This Spirit loses 10...9...3 Health for each party member healed in this way"

I agree with most people here, this is under powered. but, I think it has great potential, as once it's down, it's down. You can kite and keep from taking damage(maybe even gain a little health). Where as with heal party, you have to stop and cast for 2 seconds. We also forget ritualists are made for this kinda stuff, 10 energy isnt much once you start making a restoration spirit spammer, via Boon of Creation. This could go all the way down to 5 energy with that on you, very attractive in my view. Also, I think the "within earshot" is good for this spirit, just as the 75% block for displacement made it more durable. This spirit could be put in the backlines and keep light degen off monks and other casters. Really don't think you need more than 4 ppl in the back lines, which is where this spirit performs the best.

In the end, I just think this spirit needs a slight buff to the healing/life loss ratio. MAYBE 5 energy, but then im seeing it as over powered. But hell, trying it out durning the preview event wont hurt anybody :P Thoughts? Lou-Saydus 19:17, 24 July 2007 (UTC)

Not worth bringing. 40 hp per person in 8 man group AND earshot only AND 3 sec cast AND 30 sec recharge? A good buff is needed to justify the bar slot.

What about making the amount healed conditional? For example if party member is hexed/conditioned, this skill could heal for more. People would see this as a valuable spirit in a condition heavy area. Agony would have the same mirrored effect 203.217.3.1 12:52, 27 July 2007 (UTC) "should be "This Spirit loses 3...9...10 Health each second" or "This Spirit loses 10...9...3 Health for each party member healed in this way" --I think this is a very reasonable proposal.

I agree that this skill is pretty weak and will never use it if it remains this way. Rejuvenation is the healing variant of Agony. In the past heals from the Restoration line exceeds damage from caused by the Channeling line; here are some examples, Life is wider ranger and heals more than damage caused by Destruction, and Spirit Transfer heals more than damage caused by Gaze from Beyond. I personally think that 10 health per second (Equal to 5 pipes of regeneration) is well balance but I think health less by the spirit should decrease as it will die too quickly. --Shadetz X 03:02, 29 July 2007 (UTC)

After thinking about it some...this skill essentially is the same as Union. As it is, Union is also level 8 and it sacrifices all of its health on a 1:1 ratio for protection. With Union, if you would normally take exactly 15 damage, that damage is negated, and Union losses 15 health. End result = Your health lost 0, Union health loss 15. Now with this skill, if you take exactly 15 damage, you get healed for 10 then 5, and this spirit loses 10 and 5 health. End result = Your health loss 0, Rejuvenations health loss 15. Same ratio as Union. However, Union has the benefits of only loosing the health when you need it, and being able to sacrifice its self instantly if need be. If you take 15 damage 10 times in half a second, Union blocks ALL of it and you take no damage. With this spirit, you still take the 150 damage, and it takes 15 seconds to finally recover from it. This skill benefits from lower recharge and lower energy cost, and it helps against degeneration. As it is, this skills pros and cons against Union make it pretty bad. If it loses health for people healed with full health already, this skill is trash. --Deathwing 03:33, 29 July 2007 (UTC)

For some reason, I thought the spirit was only supposed to lose Health if a party member gained Health, instead of healing every party member whether they need it or not, and losing Health each time it heals an ally whether the ally benefited from the healing or not. What about "... This Spirit heals all party members within earshot and below C% health ..."? -- Gordon Ecker 23:57, 31 July 2007 (UTC)

Bad skill idea. Too similiar to Life, and worse. Tweak the skill completely and give it a different, more interesting effect. Servant of Kali 23:38, 24 August 2007 (UTC)

HORRIBLE skill. This skill ends up dieing after 4 heals - it sucks so bad! That's 40 health at 16 restoration for each party member. Compare it to heal party which heals for around 180 health to each party member for only 5 energy more, 28 seconds faster recharge and 1 second faster casting - this skill is HORRIBLE!. I don't understand how anyone can think this skill didn't suck amazingly bad - this was all predicted before the skill was introduced it should have been changed. To point out a flaw in the comments made about this about the rit skill Signet of Creation good luck casting any signet on this before it dies! It's up for like 5 seconds and then dies - this skill is worthless. In fact, the 3 second cast mid battle (which is when it needs to be cast otherwise no-one needs healing) is more harmful than the help the skill itself gives. In those three seconds the restoration rit needs to heal other pple, or the effect of this skill needs to make up for any damage taken in that time - 40 health will not do that! This skill sucks BAAAAAD. 58.110.139.72 09:02, 24 September 2007 (UTC)

Prehaps the reason you think sucks bad is because you have a full team of 8, if you have this skill in that team, someone's not thinking correctly. Heal party is suseceptible to dazed and more interupts than this, unlike heal party, cannot be drawed with draw spirit which gives pre emptive healing, cannot heal over time and is a monk skill where eles or monks are targetted 7/10 times first.

Sure, it isn't the best skill in whole of tyria, but it has it's purpose in a situ where your backline is being hit by degen or AoE and maintain a energy efficient level of healing. Unless your party is full of casters or rangers, your team shouldnt be all healed by this and therefore reduce the level it's degenarating at. signet of creation can simply be used in conjuction with draw spirits and the likes to buff the spirit before it dies too rapidly. IMHO, you should never rely on a resto rit to fullfill your healing needs, they are there to relieve a fair amount of pressure but not enough which can be granted by a solid monk. It certainly needs a buff of some sort but your rationale does not appear to really justify your overlook on rejuvenation. /endrant Flechette 09:21, 24 September 2007 (UTC)

If your back line got hit by AoE and didn't move out of it before they took considerable damage or if your back line clumps together in ear shot range and AoE range then you have waaaaay bigger problems than this skill.... or you are playing with heroes. Heal party is also suceptable to..... oh yeah FAST CASTING. This being a binding rit means you need to cast the full three seconds - a very long time for an almost useless heal where with Heal Party you can cast it ANYWHERE on the radar for a heal bigger than this for the whole party, and you can do it faster, with Healer's Boon, Holy Haste, Fast Casting or just 20% casting mods. Heal Party just owns this skill in almost every way. My experience in PvE is there is no backline - the mobs always end up running into the middle of your party anyway - especially in hard mode. The attitude that rits shouldn't be relied on to heal with restoration is EXACTLY why NO-ONE runs a restoration rit in PvE - monks are the norm, monks are what people are used to so monks are what we get. No-one is going to run a restoration rit with two monks - that's a waste of space. A skill which is not designed to be used in a full team of 8 shouldn't be designed as the only place where you would bring a skill like that is RA or TA, or POSSIBLY AB but mobility there pretty much determines the need for mobility thus negating this skill there anyway - these locations are VERY limited. I think you were reffering to Summon Spirits which is 1) A weak heal anyway and 2) PvE only so no-one can use this in PvP. Change the life loss to a 10 or 15 second life span and be done with it. The recharge is long and the heal isn't THAT much, plus it can be killed and forces people to stay in ear shot range - this also prevents any attempt at proloning life via signets or Summon Spirits. ATM it's just a horribly weak skill. PS: Who cares what is targeted first - that is irrelevant. 58.110.139.72 22:49, 24 September 2007 (UTC)

This thing seems to be healing minions too.

Maybe this skill just wasn't meant for pvp.. I mean it might do reasonably if u used it as a solo rit? lol but i gotta say, even then it seems mediocre. --WikiWu 09:05, 9 October 2007 (UTC)

Comments after testing

This skill just doesn't really work in practice. The fact that it loses health even if it doesn't heal makes it really, really inefficient. It should only trigger on party members below 90% health. And the health loss should be GREATLY reduced. I'd reverse it totally to 10..3. If it lost 3 hit point for 10 heal done and only if target is below 90% health, it would be great. I mean, still consider that it's a 3s cast skill you have to use in their face AND it's party healing. All extremely good reasons to have it a top priority interrupt. And if they don't manage, it's still a spirit in the middle of their warriors that they can just wack down. So it should really be worth it while it's up considering how likely it is to be put down or interrupted. Patccmoi 05:31, 26 August 2007 (UTC)

A little buff could be ok, max of 40 healing with a cast of 3 + 4 and recharge of 10 isn't too effective. As explained before, Heal Party is far superior compared to this :) - IronHeart 14:09, 27 August 2007 (UTC)

I tried this skill in RA for a couple rounds, and the fact that it heals players at full health really does make it worthless. I agree with Patccmoi that if it reserved healing to players under 90% health, this spirit would become much more useful. But even in RA, it simply does not last long enough to take up a skill slot. --Thervold 17:57, 30 August 2007 (UTC)

I have to agree. In fact IMO this is the worst spirit in the Ritualist skill line. It is completely useless and YES the single fact killing this skill is that it heals people who are at full life. If it was changed to <90% or hell less than ANY percent under 100%, the skill would become 10x better, as it wouldn't kill itself in 5 seconds. I'd say the skill could be useful in small parties in Shing Jea, except you can't normally use this skill there, except with tomes or in hard mode. This skill needs a big overhaul to prevent overheals. --WiNG 17:49, 10 September 2007 (UTC)

Move to Communing?

This skill would be somewhat effective if you could make use of Ritual Lord and Signet of Binding. However, Ritual Lord is not worth taking in a Restoration build due to lack of spirits, and Signet of Binding is linked to Communing. Moving this to Communing would make it viable in spirit spammer builds, and with Ritual Lord that they usually use, this has a 15 second recharge, matching Signet of Binding's recharge. The 266 health that someone has already mentioned + the 210 from Signet of Binding would be a 476 heal every 15 seconds, assuming this only heals/loses life if someone is healed. --Deathwing 19:59, 25 July 2007 (UTC)

I agree that moving it to communing will make this spirit somewhat useful but yet again it is a healing spirit therefore it belongs to restoration.

The health restored by this spirit isn't that great when compared to other rit spirits. I would probably bring it in restoration if it's range was increased because the way it is now earshot is too small and this spirit has so many drawback its not funny. I don't get why it has intentionally been limited so much? It's healing isnt that great and its recharge is pretty long, in PvP they are easy to kill and in PvE assuming people stand within range of the spirit it's going to die too quickly. Sure you can use the signets to make last longer but when you do that it also lessens the life of your other resotoration spirits which will die within 30 seconds too, forcing you to put them all up again which is horrible for mana and leaving ur party without their buffs. I don't get why this spirit has the life loss and limited range, its recharge and healing are already limited enough.Dancing Gnome 15:24, 5 August 2007 (UTC)

Signet of Binding only effects the target spirit, which would be this. Maybe they think this could be abused with Soul Twisting?--Deathwing 16:16, 5 August 2007 (UTC)

The heals are weak and that's an elite skill but it is an interesting combination. I don't think the heals are worth it. 58.110.139.72 00:06, 25 September 2007 (UTC)

Lvl 16

How much health should the spirit have now at lvl 16 O_o"??? Aljazya 22:33, 17 January 2008 (UTC)

Its level x 20 to figure out hp, not including spawning power. so 320.--Ryudo 02:13, 18 January 2008 (UTC)

It's level x 20 +100 normally but -50 for spirits, so 370, plus spawning power, which can bring it as high as 592 at 15 spawning power. --Ckal Ktak 12:41, 18 January 2008 (UTC)

ooo so this spirit can last more than 3 seocnds now Yay!!!! Aljazya 16:26, 18 January 2008 (UTC)

Equal to 5 health regen for anyone wondering --~~

going on 592hp thats an extra 74hp per person if evry one is damaged...so if evry one is i duno birning for about 7 seconds you may as well not be and if only 4 people are birning thats 14 seconds worth i think this skill is now good, throw in the spirts recovery spell it extends the time even longer and a 63% faster recharge means its semi spamable--82.34.243.68 22:27, 18 January 2008 (UTC)

If you're investing in Spawning Power for the health bonus already, then Signet of Creation is a good idea to milk this spirit for all it's worth. I'm willing to give it another shot now and see just how efficient it is as far as party-wide pressure relief goes. --Cjad the Nord 20:19, 22 January 2008 (UTC)

Added that to Notes. Dark Morphon(contribs) 13:37, 23 January 2008 (UTC)

This skill...

Has too long recharge compared to it's very limited lifespan. Dark Morphon(contribs) 14:29, 15 February 2008 (UTC)

this skill is used when you need to bypass regen cap, not spam it, combined with spirit light weapon, and 10 regen, this can give the equiivenlt of 350 pips of regen, which is unaffected by the 10 regen cap, i use this on hero, and it last preety long for an 8 person team, i dont know why ppl say it sucks, its on a n/rt with 12 restoration, it lasts longer than recharge so livias always bringing them up, whats wrong with a 30 sec recharge?

Shadowshock 23:01, 9 July 2008 (UTC)

heal at 100% no more

they probably fixed the anomaly just if anyone actually reads the talk page cares.. using this in combination of spirit light weapon gives a total of 40 health per second healing so this is very worth for ab, even more because it only effects "party" so it'll last even longer. yes it still doesn't compare to heal party but it's now worth something with the lv/health boost it gotten on last update. 75.104.128.36 23:59, 11 April 2008 (UTC)

ritual lord

just keep dumping the spirit whenever it dies, drop recuperation aswell.--Justice 06:12, 28 December 2008 (UTC)

Ideal for Spirit Required Skills in smaller parties

After the update, it has a high lvl and health (making tedius for enemies to kill, especially in pvp) and now stops healing after party members reach 100% health. 30 Second recharge too, can easily be kept up... that is, if there arent any sins or other hardcore armor ignoring damage dealers. Still, can keep up Spirit Light (Weapon) or Mend Body and Soul with ease. Life outheals this far in large parties though.

Related Skills

Recuperation is about as similar to this as any Binding Ritual. It's like saying Heal Area is related to Healing Breeze. I'd say that a closer match would be Preservation because it heals party members periodically. Recuperation should be removed from the list. I'm not suggesting that Preservation be added, but if you want to consider that too, it's still more appropriate than Recuperation. Discuss? 216.167.172.160 16:08, 18 March 2009 (UTC)

Well, recuperation gives ~3 pips of regen, which is 6 health/second. and this gives health per second also, so I'd say one is a discrete health gain, and one is continuous, but they are still similar imo. --JonTheMon 16:12, 18 March 2009 (UTC)

Wouldn't both of them being randomly healing some or all party members spirits be enough of a similarity? 145.94.74.23 09:31, 14 May 2009 (UTC)

rank 16

This spirit is higher lvl then players at rank 16. How embarassing and cool at the same time. r16 restore, r13 spawning = 760 health if my math is right. Justice 09:44, 20 June 2009 (UTC)

Someone needs to take a screenshot of a spirit of rejuv @ 21 next to a (preferably small) character, heh. 69.196.154.239 16:09, 21 June 2009 (UTC)

Armor of Unfeeling

Does it stack? --Falconeye 06:24, 22 June 2009 (UTC)

dude, ask on the armor of unfeeling page...or just check it yourself instead of posting this on every spirit that looses health talk page... Justice 08:38, 23 June 2009 (UTC)

Other table

Progression
Spawning Power1 4 party members 6 party members 8 party members 12 party members	0 10 7 5 3 1 10 7 5 3 2 10 7 5 4 3 11 7 5 4 4 11 8 5 4 5 12 8 6 4 6 12 8 6 4 7 12 8 6 4 8 13 9 6 4 9 13 9 6 5 10 14 9 7 5 11 14 10 7 5 12 14 10 7 5 13 15 10 7 5 14 15 10 7 5 15 16 11 8 5 16 16 11 8 5 17 16 11 8 6 18 17 11 8 6 19 17 12 8 6 20 18 12 9 6 21 18 12 9 6

¹Actual spirit-duration average, assuming spirit gains no damage/health; based on level 20 Spirit of Rejuvenation using 15 ranks in Restoration Magic

The above table was originally posted by User:Falconeye. It makes data presentation more complicated without offering much usable info in exchange. – Tennessee Ernie Ford (TEF) 04:53, 6 September 2011 (UTC)

Great Spirit For Healing Rits

I understand that back in the day this skill was rather weak because the spirit it summoned had a low health pool. Of course, after numerous buffs to both its PvE and PvP variants, this is no longer the case.

At 15 Restoration Magic and 13 Spawning Power, the spirit created is level 20 and has 608 health in addition to 122 armor. For a mere 10 energy, you can potentially heal party members for 608 health spread across them equally, or not, depending on who is taking damage. The 122 AL of the spirit makes it quite resilient to damage as well. However, the most important part of this skill is its low recharge (relative to binding rituals) and long duration (90 seconds at 15 resto). I always cast this spirit before entering battle so that it is nearly recharged when I begin a fight, allowing me to keep it up for quite a while if not permanently. And if you're running a healing rit, you should certainly be using Recuperation as well. These two combined net you a near constant +8 health regeneration per party members, or in other words that is 16 health per second per party member. If you combine these two with Ritual Lord, you are able to grant your party members a permanent twenty health per second (but may need some e-management assistance as a result).

In conclusion, a good skill that deserves to be on any healing rits bar. 147.4.36.80 19:47, 6 March 2019 (UTC)

except the fact a single PwK out heals it and PwK is instant. i mean its not complete garbage but theres a lot of better skills to prioritize first than making this one a top one. 162.213.117.178 21:53, 6 March 2019 (UTC)

PwK is indeed a good skill, but this does not have to be an either or situation. A ritualist with Rejuvenation, Recuperation, PwK, and Life becomes an excellent party healing machine.

I would arguably call PwK a stronger skill because of the shorter recharge, fire and forgot ability and potential to work with 40/40 sets, but Rejuvenation comes with the advantage of granting a spirit, which means proc's for skills and body blocking if needed, though it also means the spirit can be destroyed. There is also the ability to buff Rejuvenation with Rit Lord, which theoretically can be done with PwK too but isn't optimal. In my book, they are both good and useful. Also, my ip is different, but I am the same guy you replied to. 68.198.97.123 02:37, 7 March 2019 (UTC)