Feedback talk:Robert Gee

Question

I was curious as to your experience as a GW player. What rank are you, how many titles do you possess, etc? I'd just like to know. Thanks --adrin 07:32, 2 October 2009 (UTC)

Ohhhhh, crap. Could you imagine the outcry if he actually told people and it was below what people thought was an acceptable level? I can picture it now. ~~000.00.00.00~~ 04:46, 3 October 2009 (UTC)

The irony being that PvP Rank Snobbery is the chief thing they need to be FIXING right now to keep the population from shrinking and splintering any farther... In which case it would actually be preferential to have someone who experienced that snobbery often b/c they lacked Rank and didn't even attempt to farm it. */shrug* --ilr 04:54, 3 October 2009 (UTC)

/shrugs Good rank or not, people will still find a way/reason to bitch and moan. ~~000.00.00.00~~ 04:56, 3 October 2009 (UTC)

Heroes in scrimmages

Let us scrim with our heroes YO

Henchie bar contest

was a waste of time. You could have simply gone to pvx, picked some random great builds from the GvG and HA builds, within one hour. Also some bars still abuse the AI just like heroes did so you are still at the same problem: Heroes/henches abusing hexes, enchant removal and interrupts (or failing utterly). --Boro 15:17, 2 October 2009 (UTC)

Whoah there Boro... It's only his first Month, put the Torch away and try using all that energy for something a bit more positive.
Granted, this isn't how you want to start off "as a developer" but let's be honest here... this is a highly competitive game and the PvP'ers in it were going to find some excuse to hang him from the highest tree nomatter what b/c they're all secretly Jealous. I probably would have applied for this position myself if I didn't think the previous statement was just Hyperbole.(I'd rather be working on Hello Kitty Adventure Island... much healthier on the "Nerves") :D --ilr 01:11, 3 October 2009 (UTC)

As much as I hate to say this, but Regina said: "Robert has been taking point on this project, and has been coming in on the weekends for that." Robert hasn't make the best impact for the community if he really did take point in the judging of the contest. Sorry Robert. -- Konig/talk 01:40, 3 October 2009 (UTC)

Why, as a fellow GW player who obviously knew the limits of the AI, did you choose those bars which you KNEW they would not be able to handle? Don't tell me that you'll "tweak" it, because that in itself will be yet another unnecessary waste of time and resources. Sigh... 209.89.252.164 04:25, 3 October 2009 (UTC)

Linsey is the Team Lead, for want of a better term: ..the first rule of leadership: everything is your fault. ~~000.00.00.00~~ 04:46, 3 October 2009 (UTC)

@IP, it may be more possible to get the henchmen to use some of those builds well (I doubt the rush/frenzy thing will work) than a hero working a random build on their own. @Mr.0, one should start at the top only to say "how can you let this pass" and work their way down to "wtf were you thinking". :P (Joking yet not joking, as oxymoronic as it is). I'm sad and surprised that I actually am upset and disappointed at Anet. I'm usually very lenient in changes to games by others. -- Konig/talk 05:07, 3 October 2009 (UTC)

I'm still surprised by how many people thought this was going to end well in the first place. This was just a: Door. Arenanet. Face. To. The. Repeatedly. Plus. Nutz. To. The. Kick. Not in that order obviously. from the get go. ~~000.00.00.00~~ 22:58, 3 October 2009 (UTC)

I disagree, it had tons of potential so long as the PvP builds chosen were actually THOROUGHLY TESTED and sent through a large enough and capable jury of their peers (*hint hint*) before being announced --ilr 00:00, 4 October 2009 (UTC)

Oh, I agree it had tons of potential, but... ~~000.00.00.00~~ 00:27, 4 October 2009 (UTC)

Yeah, they could have waited until the Test Krewe was up and running and then leave the judging to them. This would have saved a lot of time and humiliation for the Live Team. 209.89.252.164 18:36, 4 October 2009 (UTC)

The Trest Krewe should definitely be finalized and "set up" in time for this PvP content update. There's no point in rushing it now that they've already totally overshot their original estimates by several months. --ilr 21:04, 4 October 2009 (UTC)

Heroes in Guild Halls

Removing Heroes from guild halls was badly done for all PvE based guilds. The guild hall is a quiet place where we gather and form parties not to mention build and equip our heroes. Now if we wish to add runes or insignias, or otherwise equip our heroes, we have to go to some noisy, crowded outpost. A much better solution would be to simply block teams from entering GvG or Scrimmages if there are heroes in the party. This should not be that difficult to code, as there are instances throughout the game where you are stopped from entering a mission if certain party requirements are not met (Rilohn Refuge, Pogahn Passage, Tihark Orchard, Dzagonur Bastion, Dasha Vestibule, Jennur's Horde, Nundu Bay). I would think coding GvG and Scrimmages would simply require a variation of this type of filter.

Our guild hall has been the center of guild/alliance party play from the beginning, and this really spoils that entire aspect of the game for me. I think you will find similar sentiments expressed to the Live Team here, as well as the community based discussions here. I really hope you will take some time and rethink this. -- Wyn talk 13:13, 30 October 2009 (UTC)

Um, a "Heroes allowed" scrimmage mode would be nice, too. I used to arrange small PvP events in my guild hall for primary PvE players which we called "Hero battles times two". It is now literally impossible =/ 128.176.178.20 13:24, 30 October 2009 (UTC)

If you could just disallow parties with heroes from entering the Guild Battle option, then that would be ideal. I don't think there's any problems with letting people scrimmage or form parties with heroes so it would be great if the patch could be adjusted to allow that again. Mr J 13:34, 30 October 2009 (UTC)

/signed... Our guild has a lot of fun playing goofy games in scrimmages using heroes, especially since we are a small guild. Please consider adding heroes to scrimmages, or at least access to configure them in the GH. --Rex 14:52, 30 October 2009 (UTC)

also... --ilr 19:19, 30 October 2009 (UTC)

Simply blocking them from GvG battles could have done the trick, as you can copypaste the code from HA. (and change the condition) --Boro 20:41, 30 October 2009 (UTC)

...Also, I would like a 19-platinum refund plz on the Rune-Trader that I bought for my Guild Hall. Without the ability to customize 3 out of 4 of my Player-Slot Armors simultaneously, that Rune Trader's value has irrefutably dropped by 75%
Bob's a pretty cool guy, eH fixes stuff se we doesn't bitch abuot anything --ilr 22:09, 30 October 2009 (UTC)

He is, but it's not gonna stop us from bitching about stuff, in fact ilr, I'd like to bitch about your typing/spelling skills :P -- Wyn talk 06:18, 31 October 2009 (UTC)

Wyn did you post this on Linsey's page as well? Dero Ahmonati 01:48, 14 November 2009 (UTC)

MERRY CHRISTMAS and a HAPPY NEW YEAR

Merry Christmas!!MystiLefemEle 04:31, 25 December 2009 (UTC)

Merry Christmas! --Boro 11:50, 25 December 2009 (UTC)

Elementalist suggestion

In response to the debate of Fire Elementalists being overpowered or the only viable Elementalist class, what if Earth Magic had a higher damage and resistance against Fire Magic, Fire Magic had a higher damage and resistance to Air Magic, Air Magic had a higher damage and resistance to Water Magic, and Water Magic had a higher damage and resistance to Earth Magic?

For Guild Wars 2 perhaps. --The preceding unsigned comment was added by User:Caretaker (talk).

A Reminder: Staff talk pages are not the proper place for detailed/specific Suggestions. And in Robert's case especially, posting them here serves no purpose as he has confirmed (and may be the only one who does) that he reads all suggestions posted to the actual Skill Feedback Portal. For future reference, and to avoid future reverts, be sure to read that section's guidelines & instructions and place your contributions there instead. Thank you. --ilr 22:48, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

To save your time: Give up! forget that gw will be balanced. Or gw2. ever. Until we get the source code there is absolutely 0% chance that anything reasonable happens, where anything reasonable means pushing balance towards rewarding player's skill instead of pure grinding. (find/execute build, loot, repeat until you get bored) --Boro 18:52, 20 November 2010 (UTC)

For inquisitive designers

Could you recommend a way to get in contact with someone regarding ArenaNet hiring practices for designers? I've been watching the job posting boards and haven't seen anything design related in quite some time (only art, programming, and web-dev), and I'm curious as to what the process and qualifications are. Thanks! --The preceding unsigned comment was added by User:RobHrouda (talk).

I asked our hiring manager about this, here's her answer: Design positions are very sought after. For this reason, not only are they few and far between, but rarely do we post them live for the public. Designers are generally either brought up within our company, or are strong internal referrals. This is actually pretty standard across the industry. It certainly helps to have a degree or previous experience (even just an internship), in order to be considered. Often times, folks whom have acquired degrees, still work as QA testers, prior to be excepted on the design team. This isn't to say that we don't have design positions occasionally though. I got my position through the ANet Jobs page after all, but hopefully this helps answer why you haven't seen many lately.--Robert Gee 22:59, 19 May 2011 (UTC)

General PvE balance

Elementalists, rangers and paragons have been regarded as underpowered for PvE by the community in general. Is there any plans to buff those? I know there was for paragons before, to follow up the dervishes update, but seems like the plans have changed. And elementalists' biggest problem lies on their damage for Hard Mode, which is greatly nerfed out while armor-ignoring damage from necros, mesmers and ritualists became the norm. Elementalists have two PvE-only skills thare are not used, and it seems that those are a perfect opportunity to make this profession be able to deal damage in HM again. Are any of these issues being considered? 84.90.202.144 00:26, 22 July 2011 (UTC)

I've got update plans for pretty much all professions we haven't hit yet, it's just a matter of when we have time to work on them. Live Team is pretty small and we've got a lot of other projects (most prominently Winds of Change) that also take up time. So to answer your question, we are considering updates to the three professions you have mentioned, though we are also considering toning down the power of the armor-ignoring damage as well. --Robert Gee 19:09, 3 August 2011 (UTC)

I think toning down the power of armor-ignoring damage would be a very bad idea as it wouldn't actually be fixing any of the problems the rangers, elementalists, and paragons have. 216.201.37.242 21:09, 10 August 2011 (UTC)

Not entirely true. Armor ignoring damage makes Rits, Necros and mesmers make them the best classes for PvE HM. Even if you were to update Eles, Rangers and Paragons to the level of, say, Warriors or Dervishes, the other three ones would still fare better at dealing damage because of AR-ignore. So to fix one thing, you would also have to fix the other. (Well, at least Paras and Rangers would still have the melee-buff spells at their side, like Wars and Dervs do. But an elementalist would not).217.129.113.149 01:31, 11 August 2011 (UTC)

Nerfing Armor-Ignoring damage = discord nerf basically? Is it to affect all type of armor ignoring (chaos/holy/shadow etc) or just damage like SoTS?86.160.235.76 00:32, 12 August 2011 (UTC)

I'm in favor of such a nerf. I love my Mesmer, don't get me wrong, but the damage I see it peeling off of balled up mobs with Panic & stacking of double Wastrel's just feels like a goddamn BFG9000. ...which is fine if you're playing a single player game but last I checked, this wasn't one of those. --ilr 00:37, 30 August 2011 (UTC)

The game is what you make it, and I make it a single-player game. I only play with heroes. So nerfing armor-ignoring damage would hurt my game experience. Just like the Asura Scan nerf, which killed the utility of three of my characters. So, I'm NOT in favor of a nerf for armor-ignoring damage. Leave it alone, please. --The preceding unsigned comment was added by 107.62.247.246 (talk).

Are you on crazy pills? The Asuran Scan change was a huge buff for Melees. I'm now farming Blind-spam mobs on my War & Derv for tons of Granite. It's freakin' Tits and TBH, kinda broken with a Scythe and/or WotA sin-spike (a former UW meta before VoSt's got popular as the frontliners). --ilr 20:34, 11 September 2011 (UTC)

Are you kidding? Paragon is already IMBA due to their damage reduction skills. Slowpoke 21:38, 6 October 2011 (UTC)

Now Paragons aren't imba because of their skills: They are imba because of a WARRIOR shout called save yourselves. They have other problems too but mostly find themselves still overshadowed by 100% immunity to spells which are the most common form of heavy spike damage in hm. Also take note that nerfing armor-ignoring damage does help us better instead of elementalist/etc damage or armor penetration buffs because it adds much needed breathing space for your healers, instead of making Save Yourselves and by extension all armor based buffs a lot less useful than they are by now. So i'm in favor of toning down the damage in order to allow much more interesting and tactical options for players and area designers. Also take note that in hm elementalist damage is about x2-4 from boss-like monsters (a warrior with hammer takes 150 dmg from flare from regent of flame Hm, so toning that down might be appreciated --Boro 21:02, 7 October 2011 (UTC)

I personally think that armor-ignoring damage per se should have not existed. Health loss and health steal are fine, but when it comes to damage, there should have been three kids: Elemental, Physical and Magical, and the subtypes for each kid: Lightning, Fire, Cold; Piercing, Blunt, Slashing and Chaos, Holy and Dark. Then each profession would have different degrees of armor vs the three kinds, and there would be insignia to get more for a sub-type or a bit more for an entire kind. But it's too late for that kind of game-changing changes. MithTalk 00:33, 8 October 2011 (UTC)

Major PvP Skill Rebalance

Hi Robert,

I'd like to point your attention at this http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Feedback:User/Artisan_Archer/Major_PvP_Skill_Rebalance. It's a suggestion me and some dedicated PvP'ers made and discussed on the QQ forums. I think if you'd show these suggestions to the Test Krewe the responses will be predominatly positive. Just trying to take some work of your back.

Kind regards, TJ. Break Fu 12:55, 4 August 2011 (UTC)

Thanks for the feedback. I'll take a look at this. --Robert Gee 21:16, 11 August 2011 (UTC)

Rangers

Hi Robert. Do you guys have an estimate of when you'll be able to give some love to the Ranger class? Thanks. 201.29.247.122 23:07, 7 October 2011 (UTC)

I guess not, because the live team's still probably a bit far from fixing the ranger. They have the elementalist first, and the paragon can either come before or after the ranger. However, an estimate for the next (aka, the elementalist) update would be nice. Is it already being worked on, or only once WoC part3 arrives?217.129.113.149 00:59, 26 October 2011 (UTC)

I'm afraid I can't give an estimate on any Ranger update at this time. I'm aware of several of the issues Ranger players have been complaining about but at the moment I can't say when we'll be able to get around to addressing them. We may be able to slip some small usability improvements in on a later update, but even that I'm not sure I could give an estimate on right now.--Robert Gee 02:19, 18 November 2011 (UTC)

Monk Heroes

Hello, Robert. After the update for elementalists and the melee AI update, we'll surely see a lot more diverse builds for PvE. However, I just want to point out something: Monk heroes are lacking behind necro/ ritualist healers and elementalist/ ritualist protters, and mostly because of one thing: lack of energy management. I believe that, with just 2-3 skill changes, it would be possible to bring those heroes back to play. 217.129.113.149 15:08, 12 December 2011 (UTC)

What skills do you think could use improvements? I haven't seen huge problems with the monk heroes I run myself (though admittedly I don't always run with monks). Certainly Necro/Ritualists have a lot of effectiveness because of Soul Reaping and Ele/Ritualists because of their good energy management skills, but in general I feel like monks are still pretty standard for healers in PvE.--Robert Gee 00:03, 13 December 2011 (UTC)

I'm not the OP, but I see a few problems on my dual-monk backlines. All of these are AI issues though, resulting in wasted energy, not a problem with skill balance.

* They don't prioritize Unyielding Aura and Healer's Boon enough, often healing without it if it gets lost during battle.

* Heaven's Delight/Divine Healing isn't used as often as it should. I've seen cases where everyone got poisoned by the swamp, but they decided to use strong single-target heals instead.

* They tend to overheal. I haven't done rigorous research, but it seems like they don't consider healing bonuses when determining overheal.

* Leech Signet is used against non-spell skills even when low on energy.

* Arcane Mimicry + Unyielding Aura: They use mimicry on recharge even when UA is still up; they dismiss UA (for rezzing) even when it's not available to recast.

* Multiple monks with UA will dismiss it instantly when someone dies. One death, and two monks lose their UA, including the one that mimicried, which may cost a total of 25e for a rez.

The biggest waster for my teambuild is the spamming of mimicry and dumb use of a copied UA for rezzing, but I understand that those aren't mainstream skills that'd get any priority for fixing. Making the inspiration skills a bit more useful on heroes would be nice though, since those and BiP are the only viable options for e-management on primary monks, and BiP is too risky in high-end PvE. Tub 13:59, 13 December 2011 (UTC)

Hello again. The user above me was spot-on. As an alternative (or in addition) to a few AI changes, monks could have better energy management skills. Or at least more efficient for the AI. Independently, giving to monks their own version of Ether Renewals/ Soul Twisting for protection magic also seems fair. It would be nice to see monk protters compete with eles/ rits in this regard. With proper balance, such skill would have its own strenghts (extra healing from Divine Favor) and drawbacks (no spirits wall, probably less energy than ER can give, anything else you wanna give it). 217.129.113.149 15:47, 13 December 2011 (UTC)

An easy fix would be either increasing the duration of Divine Spirit and Selfless Spirit, or decrease their recharge. Currently they dont last long enough to be worth using. *Malganis Frostmourn* 12.106.72.10 20:09, 13 December 2011 (UTC)

Selfless Spirit does not works for heroes, although human players also tend to rely too much on secondary professions for e.management. But at least they can use it right/ better. After searching for a bit, Air of Enchantment is almost there for a possible candidate to a ER/ ST protter monk variant, but it doesn't do enough at its current state, and I'm not sure if the hero AI would use it wisely. Maybe if it was something like: "Self-target; enchantments you cast cost 5/ X less." 217.129.113.149 20:30, 13 December 2011 (UTC)

Well a change or two to a few monk skills to make their energy managment abilities on par with the N/Rt healers would be nice. Currently monks are best for nm up to mid end PvE. When you enter high end and HM PvE N/Rt restoration healers are prefered due to Soul Reaping wich allows them to last much longer and heal more often than monk heroes are currently capable of. There is no problem in the general PvE content when it comes to healing of the monks, however when you end up in high-end PvE they do have problems. Also adding to the list of better energy managment would be the use of protection prayers. Monk heroes spam them for healing instead of proper protections and the way they use it isn't ideal either. Much like the melee AI update a general monk AI update could be used as well (and some skills to offer energy management for PvE). If you want to know some skill behavior that is lacking other than the ones already noted it would be Aura of Faith, Reversal of Fortune, Protective Spirit, Dismiss Condition and Zealous Benediction, these skills are only being used for healing ignoring their aditional effects and conditions. For healing prayers these skills are spammed way too often or used without concidering the aditional effects they have; Glimmer of Light, Healing Breeze, Heal Other/Jamei's Gaze, Heal Area/Karei's Healing Circle, Heal Party, Healing Ribbon and Healing Whisper, monks love to spam them draining their energy and almost always overheal with them. Also as noted above they don't combine/synergize certain skills well. Well thats my piece of info about it. Da Mystic Reaper 17:43, 13 December 2011 (UTC)

As noted at Dismiss Condition#Notes, AI will only use Dismiss Condition to remove a condition, not for its healing effect. --Silver Edge 04:57, 14 December 2011 (UTC)

As far as AI changes go I'm not really the person to talk to about that. I pretty much only handle the functionality of skills. Our programmer (who does handle AI) has told me to direct you to this page [1] which he checks before he does AI changes. If you put these problematic skills on this page he can put it on the list for the next set of AI updates. Right now he's busy with Winds of Change stuff so I can't give you an estimate of when he'll have time for the changes. --Robert Gee 02:11, 17 December 2011 (UTC)

Considerations on HM PvE Degen Cap

GW Guru is talking about the potential of an increased Degen cap for the new Hard Mode. With higher health, degeneration will become much weaker, and degeneration is already weak in the current HM. There will be several advantages to this ajustment:

1) new viable builds or skills will arise, for more diversity, ex. blood necromancers, mesmers with degen skills, incentives to bring more burning with elementalists and burning/ bleeding with dervishes, more incentive to bring rangers (which are currently lacking);

2) enemies will become more deadly at times, but that's also what Hard Mode has been needing lately, with so many extremely powerful hero/ player builds out there.

This could potentially be the fix for degen strategies the same way less armor/ more health is a fix for armor ignoring/ sensitive damage. What might be harder to determine is, which negative consequences it could have (if any), and how high should the cap be. 217.129.113.149 16:25, 13 December 2011 (UTC)

Ele update part 1

Hello, Robert. The new elite skills have been great fun! But their lack of synergy with most normal elementalist skills have been limiting them out, mostly because there's a: 1) lack of (good) options for a close-ranged mage playstyle; 2) lack of good options for the water and air magic line for PvE. I know there's still part 2 to come, but as it'll focus mostly on cross-elemental strategies, I wanted to point these out. Regardless, I love the creativity put into these changes, and how fun most of them have been on practice! :) 217.129.113.149 00:30, 9 January 2012 (UTC)

Mostly agreed. However I'd like to see more ways to apply burning, and of course way more cross-elemental skills. The fact that there are about 1 or 2 per element is really limiting, but I think you know about it already and are working on it. I especially love the Ele attunement (have been a dual attune fan and now it makes me a permament glyph of elemental power) and the Mist Form. I also like the things you did with Mind spells, Shockwave (talking about PbAoE right?), master of magic, water trident... And of course Ether Prodigy is back! My favorite since I started PvP-ing. Many thanks. --Boro 14:53, 9 January 2012 (UTC)

I myself am not that much of a fan of cross elements and prefer to stick to just one, the lack of viable options to make proper builds can be seen as the main reason. When you look at skills such as Chilling Winds, Lightning Touch, Earthen Shackles, Iron Mist and Elemental Flame, they are hardly any good in any skill bar. Steam is the only one that is good but you need little investment in Fire Magic due to Glyph of Immolation. Making viable skills for cross elements would be the next step so skills such as Master of Magic, Elemental Attunement and Glyph of Elemental Power can be used to their full effect. Having non-elite skills that synergise well with the new elites and mainly the double cast spells would be a nice thing to see as well. Right now i still find the choise still a bit limited, Air PBAoE is also something to be looked at so Ride the Lightning can also be used to it's fullest. Knowing that the elites are done and non-elites will be next there still is one thing i am wondering about; you have changed many of the elites and made them great except Icy Shackles, it would be nice to let it see good use. Da Mystic Reaper 15:54, 9 January 2012 (UTC)

Icy Shackles stood out to me as well. It felt like the odd one out. Maybe it'll be a cross-elemental elite that only makes sense to come in part2? The new builds arising mostly revolve around Searing Flames, Savannah Heat and Unsteady Ground because they are fire and earth long-range elites, which have good common skills from those attributes to back them up (the Heat nukes, the new Fireball/ Churning earth, Eruption, Wards, etc). Shatterstone, Thunderclap, Blinding Surge, etc, are strong, but other than Chain Lightning for the air line, there's not much to put in the build (Deep Freeze is good, but mostly as a secondary to fire/ earth nukers). And all the new PBAoE skills are strong individually, but not collectively.217.129.113.149 16:27, 9 January 2012 (UTC)

I'm glad that you've all enjoyed the elementalist changes. In the case of Icy Shackles we felt that it was in a good place for PvP and that it wasn't really necessary to change at this time. While this last update was targeted primarily at PvE elementalists there are still skills which sit primarily as PvE or PvP skills. We could have reworked Icy Shackles to have more PvE appeal but felt that more radical changes would have been necessary in this case which would have caused it to diverge significantly from it's PvP use. As for the next phase of the elementalist updates I don't expect that cross elemental skills will take up the bulk of it. There aren't very many of them right now and it's unlikely that we'll rework many skills to be cross elemental. I see cross elemental skills as more of a type of skill that you bring to give your primary element a boost by providing something that that element doesn't normally have. You can see this in Steam which gives defensive Blind to an otherwise offensive Fire based build (Steam is arguably the best cross element skill at the moment). I expect many of the final changes will be along these lines rather than a hodgepodge set of skills that all go into the same build (though Master of Magic is a consideration as well, it's still only one skill). --Robert Gee 23:56, 10 January 2012 (UTC)

I do hope there will be some more cross-element skills or at least some skills that have functions that can work in both single element builds and cross element builds. If the pool of cross-element skills remains as limited as it now is Master of Magic will go to waste, altough it does allows you to use an attribute of your secondary profession without compromising skill points. About Icy Shackles, i am not a big fan of elites only being usable for either PvE or PvP since in my opinion players should be able to take any elite in all forms of play (except farming and SC) and be able to use them to their fullest and should not be limited to only one form of play. If it's normal skills i don't mind about those since there are plenty of them, elites are limited in choice. For PvP Icy Shackles may not need much of a change but PvE it does need quite a bit of a change, if you don't want to change it too radical to make it's function usable for both PvE and PvP why don't you just split it with a near identical function for PvP and something different and suitable for PvE. Summing it up Icy Shackles should not be left alone only because it functions in GvG, and tbh i'm pretty sick of it that GvG dictates the function of all of the skills for all of PvP. Da Mystic Reaper 17:35, 11 January 2012 (UTC)

I like the idea of cross-elemental skills being important even for builds that focus on one element (i.e. Steam). It has the extra of adding more options to already existing builds, and makes Elemental Attunement more relevant in those cases than Master of Magic (I feel the new MoM is the best elite for a true cross-elemental build). Da Mystic Reaper raises a good point about Icy Shackles and normal skills. I don't play GvG, but from I know, isn't I.S. mainly an anti-dervish skill? If so, couldn't it's effect be transfered to a normal skill, toned down, and still remain useful? If that was reasonable, it would free up an elite slot. I always felt water magic was lacking an elite version of Deep Freeze/ Ice Spikes for general PvE before (aoe snare + damage), although the new Mirror of Ice already fulfills that in an unique way. 217.129.113.149 18:51, 11 January 2012 (UTC)

Maybe we could think in mechanics instead of individual skills. Then simply adding that mechanic to a couple of skills should be better than "...a hodgepodge set of skills that all go to the same build" as Robert said. (which is the case now. Not much diversity it seems) I'll make a suggestion about it tomorrow. Example would be arcing that adds aoe to lightning spells when they strike foes under water hexes. It should add enough diversity (fixed or scaling % of arc damage, short arcs - adjacent, long arcs - nearby range) to air skills to make them viable. But I'll rethink that tomorrow. --Boro 21:27, 11 January 2012 (UTC)

I also contributed my suggestions for part2 over the Elementalist's Feedback page just right now. They're mostly conservative and focus on small tweaks, rather than on crazy changes. I'll leave entire skill reworks up to Robert's criativity and whatever he can do with the technical limitations of this game's engine, because I believe anything I could suggest for this area would be meaningless and ignorant. Diogo da Silva 23:23, 13 January 2012 (UTC)

Because my common sense tells me that doublecast skills are potential targets for any pvp nerf to come, I hope they are splitted if/ when that happens. I've just tested Stone Sheath on a hero after yesterday's AI update, and it worked wonders for PvE. Relevant enough without being overpowered there. 217.129.113.149 20:10, 13 January 2012 (UTC)

I agree with that. Doublecasts made playing with my assassin fun again. MithTalk 03:39, 14 January 2012 (UTC)

If we're on the topic of nerfs already, I'd just like to point out that the Elementalist didn't "pay the usual toll" for these buffs like other Classes have... IE: It's still just a huge walking Mana Bar that can play monk better than some monks can play monk and spam other spells too. Mesmers, Necros, Dervishes, & even Rits had to sacrifice some Secondary Synergies for their updates but what have Ele's given up? Specifically, why were their 2 biggest crutches for Secondary synergy left untouched? I'm referring to and --ilr 21:00, 15 January 2012 (UTC)

Probably because they are not that big of a problem than people think they are. E/Mo doesn't outplay normal healers in PvE and is only seen in farming and SC builds. The other builds is the E/N with orders and is the only builds that actually allows you to take the orders that are otherwise unplayed. As for Stone Striker i gues you are aiming at farming builds, well even if it's changed Vaetirr farm is still possible and is still offers some nice defense when used with Mantra of Earth. But i would say that the main culprit is Obsidian Flesh or rather spell immunity skills that can be maintained, getting rid of those would help alot. Spell Breaker and Vow of Silence can stay because they are basicly impossible to use in farming and SC builds, the others can be changed into something else. Da Mystic Reaper 22:08, 15 January 2012 (UTC)

I think EMo protters need to be toned down, but not become useless. I made a suggestion for that on the elementalist's feedback page. Regardless, I agree that they're not relevant enough to overshadow a normal elementalist. Diogo da Silva 01:36, 16 January 2012 (UTC)

Totally agree with toning down the E/Mo protter. Maintaininig Pbonds without a problem is quite overpowered when you combine it with shadow form, or obsidian flesh to a somewhat lesser extent. I also think either consets and/or shadow form (and speedclears in general) should be toned down to be non-maintainable, and to compensate for that elite areas need some overhaul to make them easier to complete in smaller chunks. --Boro 20:49, 16 January 2012 (UTC)

But here you are talking about an elite that functions perfectly has to be toned down for a skill that is only used in farming and SC builds. Like i said maintainable spell immunity skills needs to be changed and instead of changing E-renewal change P-bond into a skills that can be used in normal PvE and PvP. If you ask me i would say changing a couple of very limited in use non-elites would be better than changing an elite that can be used in multiple builds in multiple areas. Da Mystic Reaper 21:35, 16 January 2012 (UTC)

If an Energy Storage elite lets you function better as a protter than a monk primary, there is a problem there. Pbond was just one example. But you are right that Pbond needs a functionality change, most probably from maintained to time limited. --Boro 13:31, 17 January 2012 (UTC)

Truthfully i find it more effective to place protection on a necromancer with Soul Reaping and Signet of Lost Souls than an ele bonder with E-renewal, energy managment is not much of a problem, it can cope with pressure and still has room for an elite. If it's just a player it's only being used in farming and SC, if players want strong protection they would take an imbagon instead. What bothers me is that an elite that functions very well and isn't particulary overpowered is only being nerfed because of farming and SC, just another skill nerf that doesn't solve anything to that problem but delay it at most. Da Mystic Reaper 16:27, 17 January 2012 (UTC)

You can spam Shield Guardian, Prot spirit and Spirit Bond so much that you can cover your entire party, while using aegis as much as possible, and you can use Convert hexes without a second thought plus laugh at conditions with mend condi, always at full energy, while a primary monk will have trouble with protting and most likely something will just get through (I'm looking at 256 dmg rodgorts and 106dmg flares from monsters with very high energy), and an ele can just laugh it off. Or it can make infuse totally the most powerful healing ever, spammed on the go. You can of course drop some of the functionalities, but you can still mitigate massive armor ignoring damages party-wide, and maintain some bonds/enchies, without dropping to too low mana. Burning speed makes it retarded. A bit of toning down or shifting to a different functionality (Ie energy regain over time) would leave it quite usable, and addressing the real problems (speed clears, and the reason people resort to it) would possibly even give it a new shine. This is not to say totally cheese spells such as prot bond don't need fixing, but the main problem is SC and it needs to be addressed first. Speed Clearing issue which includes area design, Pbond, Shadow Form and ER, and obviously insanely high hard mode spell damages from monsters (screw my previous statement about flare: it can just as well go to 190-200 damage on pseudo-bosses - that's 100 DPS from such a base spell!). Of course spells shouldn't be made useless, (I look at you Smiter's Boon) but instead be integrated into a weave of pve in a way they support more "healthy" playstyles. And I mean healthy by teams staying together and only splitting up into smaller teams that are at least 3 players strong, and nobody can solo half of the underworld, because that makes things into an autonomous, farming experience that eventually becomes a chore. Long story short: Sform, ER, Pbond and Obsi Flesh needs to be changed, and areas are to be reworked to prevent the need AND possibility of speed clears. --Boro 17:46, 17 January 2012 (UTC)

Than an enchantment that returns a set ammount of health and energy instead of stacking per enchantment would be the best. Or give it a function that improves recharge of spells like Glyph of Renewal. Personally i would prefer an enchantments that functions as both an attunement and as aura of restoration, healing and returning energy both. ADDED: Another solution without changing it is to let the healing and energy gain only trigger on spells targetting foes like the renewal effect of Lyssa's Aura. Da Mystic Reaper 18:17, 17 January 2012 (UTC)

Recharging some long-recharge spells faster could be a good functionality if combined with renewal of energy. Other news: here is the elemental synergy I promised. --Boro 19:43, 19 January 2012 (UTC)

Assassins

I realize that elementalists are currently the focus of the team but I wanted to hopefully at least have you see my ideas. Sins are kind of boring right now. I say that as someone who hasn't played much else besides sins since the start of factions. Right now, I can run about three different sin builds in PvP. Any time I attempt to make a good sin build that isn't just gimmicky and inferior, I can't. Why? Because most of the assassins skills:

• Are so harshly gimped that they can't function
• Do absolutely useless effects
• Don't synergize well with any effective assassin combos
• Take up so much room on the bar that you can't fit necessities such as snare.

I made this page to express what I would do with sins. I hope you will take a look. I bring this up because in this last update, we were already pretty much stuck with two meta bars, and now they got a slight nerf. Fantastic =/. I totally understand why, though. --The Gates Assassin 07:04, 24 January 2012 (UTC)

If you haven't played anything except sins for the last 5 years, no wonder they might start to feel boring.... -- Hong 08:52, 24 January 2012 (UTC)

I'll never truly be bored of sins, but when as a PvPer you're stuck with Wastrel's Collapse, Grenth's Grasp and WoTA as your only truly viable build, you get kinda frustrated when nothing else matches up. Closest ones would probably be the deadly arts builds and Beguiling haze...sort of.--The Gates Assassin 11:15, 24 January 2012 (UTC)

I am unable to legally take any suggestions from fans unless they are posted in the Feedback Portal space of the wiki. I'd be happy to look over your changes if you repost them there.--Robert Gee 21:24, 24 January 2012 (UTC)

Should be easy for him to do. Make the suggestion and a simply copy/paste and you got it done. Da Mystic Reaper 21:32, 24 January 2012 (UTC)

Actually Robert, this page is in the Feedback space of the Wiki (page title: "Feedback talk:Robert Gee"). That's why your user talk page redirects here, so you can use things posted here! ~FarloTalk 22:06, 24 January 2012 (UTC)

His suggestion to buff assassins are on this page certainly, but the specific changes he has in mind are linked to a page that is not in the Feedback space. (Lack of green background.) To be 100% sure, I'd prefer it gets reposted on a page reserved for Feedback before I consider them.--Robert Gee 22:22, 24 January 2012 (UTC)

Sorry about that. Here it is.--The Gates Assassin 23:15, 24 January 2012 (UTC)

Ah! Alright, perhaps I should have actually read the conversation, haha. That's an understandable concern. ~FarloTalk 01:56, 25 January 2012 (UTC)

Boss Locations

I'm not sure if you're "allowed" to say where they are, but is there any chance you could confirm a couple boss spawns for the Interactive Maps? First is Plog Hamfist, Me and Chieftain Alex have run through the zone tons of times without spotting him and none of the other Wikis seem to have any idea either. Second is Ensign Lumi's position in Zehlon Reach, I've made at least 15 trips through there today with no luck, is he just super rare? Thanks for the answers :D. ~FarloTalk 06:19, 25 January 2012 (UTC)

Paragons

Hello Robert, I don't know what the current status is for the paragon update, but in the event that you are still looking for input on this issue I wanted to draw your attention to a suggestions page I have created... I believe that every important issue has been addressed and I have supported the suggestions with analysis on what effects these changes may have on game balance. Please feel free to use any or all of it as you see fit! Feedback:User/Khomet/Paragon Refresh Khomet 04:47, 4 February 2012 (UTC)

Monk Smiting Prayers

Dear Robert, I remember reading somewhere that the smiting prayers are under consideration for improvement and I'm wondering if you can shed some light over this issue. Although it is understandable that the primary role for a monk is (supposed) to heal/prot but the current smiting prayer line seems too underpowered to even make one motivated to put points in this. In PvP it is so unreasonably common to hear people suggesting not to play a smiting monk and in PvE the smiting monk also feels incompetent with a very small viable selection of prayers.

Many smiting prayers either have too huge an energy cost (for a monk) like Balthazar's Aura or a recharge time that is too long, such as those signets with a 20s recharge. Some are so unreliable and require too much micros-control, like those prayers that force the player to target "attacking enemies" while rewarding/cost effeciency for such attempts are too little and recharges too slow, for example, Smite.

This does not mean there is no good smiting prayers. At least I quite enjoy double-casting Ray of Judgement and watching the enemies burn. But besides that most of my skill bars are not composed of any other smiting prayers, even though the character is supposed to be a smiting primary. Smite Hex/ Smite Condition are too situational to properly apply those damage to where you want it to be (which translates into random damage that is not useful under the current trend of focusing fire and spike). This is worse when you are playing with a group of heroes (and not to mention the AI uses it even less effectively ). Kirin's Wrath and Symbol of Wrath are also unimaginably hard to properly cast due to its long casting time (2s is so easy to be interrupted by things such as KD), the fact that monks are supposed to be in the backline, and the long recharge time of 30s. Signets, as mentioned, recharge too slowly yet rewards too little, and still take up the skill slots. Also monks seems to lack solid and effective energy management (they have some, but most are too conditional and hard to use).

All those above might just be personal feelings but as someone who is interested in non-traditional builds I sincerely hope there might be some improvements for those issues and have made a few suggestions here: http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Feedback:User/Aland/Smiting_Prayers_Suggestions#Smiting_Prayers. Thanks for your time reading these long babbles, hope you won't be dazed for 1...4...5 second[s]. Aland~~ 08:50, 10 February 2012 (UTC)

The reason that Smiting Prayers are set up the way they are, and the reason that we haven't really done anything with these skills so far is because Monks have a very delicate balance since they are a healing profession with damaging skills. If a profession like the Monk who can keep himself and several others alive has a strong damage line then it becomes very imbalanced to run multiple monks. They can both stay alive and dish out lots of damage. Every other profession must make sacrifices between skills which are offensive in nature and those that are defensive in nature. If Smiting Prayers were as strong as Fire Magic for example, monks wouldn't have to do this. Now you may want point out that Ritualists (or Paragons) are a profession with both Healing and Damaging skills that can be played as hybrid. This is true, however there are a few differences. The first is that many Smiting Damage skills are also Healing/Support skills (Smite Hex for example heals from Divine Favor, removes a Hex AND deals damage). The second is that the other professions cannot easily spec both damage and healing without sacrificing a lot of efficiency (the paragon Motivation line was rebalanced heavily because of the same problem with smiting). Now I still think that smiting can be a balanced line, but I believe the way to do this involves setting it up in such a way that it prevents healing/smiting or protection/smiting builds from being overpowered. Also, while it's not common to play smiting monk in PvP, the problem I'm talking about with overpowered healing/smiting builds was very common in PvP before Smiter's Boon was nerfed.--Robert Gee 19:47, 10 February 2012 (UTC)

As a personal anecdote my monk started out in 2006 with the ele secondary profession: I used fire magic instead of smites through the maguuma jungle(note that Gw was infinitely more balanced then). I could actually find teams with that. If you can negate the divine favor on smiting skills, which was the problem with the whole smiter's boon thing, a buff can be made since smiting spells. Additionally enchantments can be turned into hexes to promote both a more proactive play, and remove the benefits from DF (in case you want DF unchanged). Finally the smiters boon can be changed to a selfheal to promote monk flaggers. However, adding more hexes can be a problem. --Boro 08:53, 27 April 2012 (UTC)

Monk Healing Prayers

Currently the two skills: Patient and Dwayna's Kiss completely dominate Healing Prayers bars. Previously Heal Other, and Orison of Healing were more or less used, I mean before Nightfall and EoTN. But as you said monks have a delicate balance. This makes me wonder why doesn't everything else have one? In the past I've seen the live team Buff damages on professions without giving a damn (Elite Skill update with shadow form buff, Ritualist update, Mesmer update, Warrior update, Dervish update and finally Elementalist update. EVERY SINGLE change improves these professions' damage dealing ability to a point that it overshadows everything for about a month, and keeps being insanely powerful even after. Dervs outclassed warriors. Powerbuffed Mesmers and Rits outdamaged Eles in AoE. Yet the monks have a delicate balance. Then why do we have more than sixteen healing prayers skills when only three or rarely four are used? What kind of balance is that? Have you seen ANYONE use words of comfort, Heal Other, Gift of Health, Healing Breeze, Mending, Vigorous Spirit and Blessed Light? Because I haven't. Outside of terrible players. I'm not saying to buff the rest, rather that you should start thinking on toning down the OTHER professions a bit to a more manageable damage level of the game. --Boro 17:28, 7 March 2012 (UTC)

I'm not sure we are using the same definition of the word "balance" here. Imagine a scale with *damage* on one side and *healing* on the other. In an average GvG game you have 5-6 damage dealers on one side of the scale and 2-3 healers on the other, 2 of which are always monks. This means that monks weigh the most compared to the other professions and that changes to that "weight" will affect the scale the most. This is what I mean when I say that monks have a delicate balance. I actually agree with you that monks should have more viable skills to use, but it's much more difficult to do that because all monk skills tend to be overpowered anyway to balance out damage. (As a side note though: Healing Breeze is used a ton, just not by monks.)

Concerning toning down other professions, I think we've done that to a large extent. For example, while it took longer than some people wanted, Dervish are actually in a really good spot right now as far as their power level and viability. Before this Dervish were never played in serious PvP. With the ele changes earlier this year, we're now seeing new builds like Earth Elementalists in PvP formats too. I think both of these are pretty good changes really as they increase the variety of viable pvp builds.--Robert Gee 19:35, 7 March 2012 (UTC)

I must be a bad player then, according to Boro, because I use Words of Comfort, Heal Other, Vigorous Spirit, and Blessed Light regularly. I wish Blessed Light was used better by heroes though, as they only seem to cast it when you're affected by a condition and/or a hex and need healing. They wont use it for one of those issues. And I also wish Divine Spirit and Selfless Spirit lasted longer and/or had a shorter recharge. Monks need better energy management skills. *Malganis Frostmourn* 12.106.72.10 21:22, 7 March 2012 (UTC)

I remember the very first "state of the Game" I ever read... it was on that exact topic; Monks & energy management. It was well reasoned and I'm sure those guidelines were adhered to throughout the years for a bigger reason related to the core strategy/gameplay. It's really a shame this game is so Spiking focused though b/c if it wasn't, then monks could gradually gain back energy through their own martyrdom & conditional "skill shots" via Smiting that could then be spent on healing. ...kinda like Defender's Zeal attempted to do (but ultimately failed at). --ilr 08:37, 8 March 2012 (UTC)

Ilr sums it up pretty well. The overall intensity of the game ramped up in the past so much that infuse became a must have, along with some sort of natural skill selection amongst the players leaving only a few as viable. I'm not saying that orison is underpowered. From what I see, Orison is (was) fine untill ritualists (Mend body and soul), Nightfall, and powercreeped Eotn skills (patient) were introduced. The problem was Nf and Eotn powercreep, which disallowed previous boonprotting style monking and estabilished the current Rc/infuser meta. Which is understandable because heals were needed as caster damage got ramped up while the pre-nightfall game was centered around physical damage and caster support. The skills supported that: warrior damage was the highest, and antimelee skills had quite some variety to allow for a diverse set of builds to be used, and also allowed most monks to run without active e-management, as protting essentially was their energy management. To some extent it still is in gvg, but with the increase of spikes, healing skills (and powercreeped ones such as patient and cure hex) are no longer optional, and the current power level you seem to balance skills towards is this powercreeped one, which has these issues on it's own already. This combimed with the fact that balance issues (such as the then buffed Aura of thorns) took up to three months ir more to hammer out from the game, and those professions buffed dominated pvp during that period, it's easy to see what problems I have with the direction you are going towards. --Boro 09:36, 8 March 2012 (UTC)

I'd agree that the PvP could keep getting some general meta nerfs - not to make the current builds pointless, but to increase the number of alternative builds that might equal in power, as some of the arguments posted here show. So far the diversity has been achieved by upping the power of unused skills, but there's a limit to that. When powercreep gets too high, and the counters get stronger, GW PvP becomes more and more a game of rock-paper-scissors where, for example in the current Random Arenas, you bring Shockwave and win the game, or they bring rupts and you're useless. Or with a warrior, there's all this whole blind spam turning you useless, because the moment you're not, you kill in seconds. This makes matches more frustating when human error occurs, and PvP harder to be appreciated among casual players, because there's so much anti-play nowadays, so much rupt spam and blind spam, so you don't get spiked to death in seconds, that in order to do anything (aka, to play some PvP and have fun), you must be a pro. For that reason, I think the buff to Blinding Flash from 15e to 10e was a mistake, while its consequent nerf to a higher recharge will only affect the pro players who abuse the extra seconds for a well-timed KD hammer chain, but do zero to the casual players from other formats that will still get spammed by blind over and over and over because the 10e energy allows for it. Another skill I find problematic from a game design perspective is Power Block: it incentivates you (sometimes even downright forces you) to not bring spells with high casting time, which almost by itself makes a core mechanic of the game rendered almost useless; and when it connects, you won't do anything for a lot of time, especially the case for elementalist's builds that are the easiers to rupt, which does not lead to fun gameplay. I've seen discussions where people didn't bring potentially good skills to their monk bars, because Power Block exists. As it is, it restricts the diversity of some builds, and sucks the fun out of the PvP game for PvP casuals who want to *play* it. Yes, I take a lot into account the more casual PvP, which for some of you might be meaningless. But it's where I have most fun with, and Random Arena is THE place for casual players to enjoy half of GW: the PvP. Diogo da Silva 00:23, 9 March 2012 (UTC)

I agree with your first points, namely that all these "-spam" suffix builds cause a lot of problems in pvp, and reduce the incentive of skilled play into either reflex play, or just plain spamming. There is also the problem that spiking is so powerful, that turtling and/or defensive (ritualist) flaggers are necessary. Which reduces diversity and the number of options in an undesirable way, making the meta homogenous.

But I have to disagree with you in the case of Random Arenas. They are played by players who want to farm others by syncing for gladiator points. This AND the current "Buff everything to Eye of the North/Shadow Form(PvE) power level" balancing trend are making that format unenjoyable too. Empathy bans you for playing warrior, Dervs make warrriors useless, Visions of Regret bans you from the game (and can be combined with empathy)... So the problem is just as much with Random Arenas and the fake randomness of them as with the current balance situation. At least from my point of view. --Boro 15:20, 9 March 2012 (UTC)

Instead of ranting about how broken PvP is and giving it reason why ask yourself this; why the heck do i even play such a broken game. Anyways for all those problems you mention i mainly blame PvX, they are the ones that gave people those shitty meta and farm builds. If you want something to hate and to blame then blame PvX who are the primary cause of it, not the live team who is trying to fix it. Da Mystic Reaper 15:26, 9 March 2012 (UTC)

PvX just speeds up the process of meta creation and levels the playfield. Without PvX, you'll have a few guys exploiting too effective builds, some of them never sharing those builds to increase the chances for those builds to still work, and lots of people that have no idea of what they are doing and leave PvP frustrated. Now, the sharing is way faster, and some of those that have no idea just go to PvX and pick some builds to try. Someone using a build made by someone else is better than less people playing at all. Like in most flawed systems, fixing them doesn't involve blaming those that exploit the system, but making the system impossible to exploit. MithTalk 17:06, 9 March 2012 (UTC)

Mithran just takes the cookie DMR. Also I don't usually play the game. Mainly because as you said, I find too many broken and unfun elements both in the current state of balance (EoTN/Shadow Form powerlevels on more and more skills), and the fact that many 'recent' updates by the devs catered to specifically one type of players: Title farmers, or more commonly munchkins. Random Arena stopped being played for fun as soon as gladiator points were introduced. People found out that hitting the "enter match" button at the same time allows them to play as the same team, so syncing was born. I was one who synced with my father and guildmates in FA/JQ waay before, so we could complement the sheer idiocy of some players who frequent those areas. The devs didn't fix this issue/bug, for reasons that are still unclear to me. I hope that Robert can shed some light on the reasons behind that.

On the PvX topic: One build is not overpowered because it is popular. On the contrary. A build becomes popular by BEING overpowered already. PvX even speeds up the process of finding the errors, the flaws, the exploitations in the system so they can be fixed. Of course if the whole live team is going towards the EoTN powercreeped power levels, a power level that the other systems such Health, Energy, Armor and armor bonuses and Death Penalty were not refined to, it won't help much because the issue is actually with this direction, this 'buffing everything else' mentality. At this point I hope I'm clear to everyone that I'm not asking for buffs on Orison and co, I'm asking for the global reduction of powerlevels to the Guild Wars Factions Championship era.

Since balance is a joke now (in PvE at least, and given the -spam builds then in PvP too), and in that era the game was played competitively and had an opportunity to become an e-sport much like starcraft, I think it is clear why.

But balance alone will not be enough as is, as the whole motivation behind the players needs to be revised. I personally think the Live Team made their biggest mistakes (since the shadow form buff) when the Zaishen Strongboxes and Zaishen Combat quests were introduced, as it really affects PvP if the motivation is having fun or self-improvement as opposed to material gain (Zcoins, Zkeys, Zstrongboxes). The latter kills casual gaming and casual fun as players start seeking and brutally abusing exploits, some that get fixed, and many that don't. An example for the former however, is Starcraft 2 itself. There are of course big tournaments and stuff, but for most of the playerbase, the main goal is to become a good player, and it is not unheard of people who were furiously sending small squads of soldiers and alien bugs against each other in one minute, compliment each other in an after-action chat, and even give advice to each other. In GW, the usual after match player interaction involves words that are quite inappropriate to use here for proper feedback. --Boro 17:58, 9 March 2012 (UTC)

RE: March 22. update

Quick Summary.

The current argument is:

• It seems like you (Live team balancers) are nerfing the symptoms of Mind Blast eles, instead of addressing the source of the issues.
• It also seems like you are treating the symptoms of hexways and the general powerful state of hexes by further improving hex removals.

Notes:
I think that the reason MB ele skills you nerfed (Immolate, Dwayna's Touch?, Healing Breeze, Flame Djinn's Haste?) were a problem to begin with is that Mind Blast effectively negated their only balancing drawback (energy cost). It is mentioned by IP(71..) that further nerfing Mind Blast's recharge either won't accomplish anything, or it will trash the skill, which is something we consider an undesirable.

On the subject of hexways I think the problem is that certain hexes have way too short recharge times (Mind Wrack, Empathy, Defile Defenses and Suffering come to mind) and can be used to effectively cover the more damaging/draining hexes from hex removal, and instead of buffing a counter spell, the problematic hexes should be given longer cooldowns.

---

Original Posts:

So what did Healing Breeze do to deserve such fate? --Boro 08:28, 25 March 2012 (UTC)

I did a bit of researching, asking people around, and watching gwpvx and found out the sad event that you nerfed an otherwise perfectly fine skill because it was used in a build that abused the energy gain from Mind Blast. This is again nerfing around the problem, because the skill was fine in itself, it's multiple usage at the cost of energy was a good way to force monks to make decisions (in PvE), it was a good support that could be used in a crutch, at the cost of offensive or other support capacities that could've been used as an elementalist. Of course when a skill can be spammed for insane energy return that makes people laugh at silly things like energy costs or savage shot, the build using said skill becomes overpowered. But it doesn't become overpowered because of Immolate, or Healing Breeze, Or Dwayna's Touch (I think that was what old MB eles used), it becomes overpowered because there is a skill that is essentially "lol energy". This is not new in the history of gw skill changes, as we have Tiger Stance, Burst of Aggression, and Flail, three stances nerfed because facerolling assassin builds (Shadow Prison, Backbreaker, and Palm Strike) and in the case of Flail the DPS ranger build (Prep-shot). I'd kindly appreciate it in the future if you stopped nerfing around the problem ruining otherwise fine skills, removing tactical diversity in using said skills (game of skill rings familiar to you?) and addressed the actual problems such as Mind Blast making mockery of Energy Management. --Boro 11:13, 28 March 2012 (UTC)

I know it's the principle but the first thing i would say is; does a 3 second extra recharge really hurt the skill?. Second would be what change do you suggest instead to nerf the build instead. Since the problem seems to be mind blast i do wonder what fix would work then, or rather how you would change mind blast and still keep it a good and usable elite. Well a popular request is to move it to earth magic since it lacks a mind skill. It would also give earth magic a single hit damage spell wich it currently lacks. Still if you want to have it undone then suggest a viable fix instead of just crying about it. Da Mystic Reaper 12:20, 28 March 2012 (UTC)

--> the rest of this discussion/debate is moved to, and, it is continued on my talk page --Boro 13:47, 30 March 2012 (UTC)

Master Fuhon's posts in the discussion page for the update more or less hits on the main reasons for this change. Rather than repeat what he said again I'll just leave this link Feedback_talk:Game_updates/20120322.--Robert Gee 22:49, 30 March 2012 (UTC)

Agree. A lot of times people say "Skill splits" or other tactical jargon when what they really mean is Lonewolf Camping. --ilr 21:43, 31 March 2012 (UTC)

I concede that MB splits were too powerful with HB. After watching a GVG MAT final match (Blue team vs Mad Cuz) It was pretty much Blue Team holding their ground against main team at Frozen Isle flag stand, while their MB, Sin, and/or cripshot, and/or ritualist (usually never more than two) went in and started NPC-killing. They died sometimes, but pulled the strategy off quite well. Then in the last 3 minutes they just went into the red base and wiped, and wiped again just to get that tiebreaker crap on their side, and they won. Now I don't have words for how much bullshit that was, but the MB was quite happily dealing damage and being versalite with Patient Spirit (to be booned soon) healing him for [~92+aura]hp. I still don't see how HB becomes ok now. If one cancelcasts, then it automatically costs 19 energy (-1 from aura), which is normally a quite substantial amount of energy loss, but subset by using two MB-s, but doesn't start the recharge timer. I still fail to see how this recharge increase did anything to improve the problem MB eles and other split eles cause, since Savage is usually reserved for Rodgort, and D-shot for MB. To top it all, HB wasn't that good to begin with. Of course Healing over time which allows for keeping the momentum is important and strong in splits, but it could have been tweaked towards being weaker in splits and stronger in stands instead of simply pushed closer to the skill trash bin in Izzy style. (Distracting Strike and Smiter's Boon say hello!) I know it has been used since... Prophecies in GvG as a strong part of the Ether Prodigy elementalist, I myself used the build when I played PvP two years ago, and it was quite a lot of fun. The problem I see is that Mind Blast allows for both the more or less same degree of energy management, without the big health loss that was the drawback of Prodigy, which means that aside from speccing into fire magic and pressure you can also have the same E-manage power, and it can deal damage to top it off, and not too bad damage to boot. This is why in the Guild Wars Championship and in the Guild Wars Factions Championship eras, there wasn't any problem with healing breeze (such bs elites didn't exist before NF), as E-manage was limited to that and Ele Attunement (easily stripped) mostly.

So you can nerf Healing Breeze, then you can nerf Patient Spirit, then nerf every single healing skill that will take it's place, but you will miss the problem. MB just allows for WAY too much versality without any apparent drawback, for builds revolving around it's spammage to be possibly be balanced without nerfing half the monk and ritu skillset. --Boro 09:58, 2 April 2012 (UTC)

Odette and co.

If those dialogues were kept from release, but are now in the game, would it be reasonable to ask for said dialogues to be put into the normal Lakeside County version rather than them solely being in the April Fools' Day version? I ask for two reasons: 1, "new" content; 2, it's pretty much impossible to tell if anything is canon from those (such as the Krytan army making it into Regent Valley during the Guild Wars), so it'd be nice to see some division between the possibly-canon and non. Konig/talk 03:27, 3 April 2012 (UTC)

It would be cool having them rehearse in an endless loop in Althea's theater, much like the drunkards in Regent valley. They could have a similar "repeatable event" that gives a sparkler instead beer, this time for properly performing a series of emotes or something like that. MithTalk 06:50, 3 April 2012 (UTC)

What about the ele update now?

Hello Robert, Now that the Live Team is helping on GW2, is the ele's second part of the update still being worked on, or will it be pushed back? Diogo da Silva 23:56, 25 April 2012 (UTC)

I am still working on changes to Ele (and Paragon!) but I have less programmer support than usual due to the shift, so there will probably be delays.--Robert Gee 01:53, 26 April 2012 (UTC)

Well that is good news and certainly a relief. Was beginning to think that the Paragon would be completely abandoned now with the team mostly moved over to GW2, in the sorry state it's in now. Sure, Ranger could also use an update too, but it is in nowhere near as much desperate need of one as the Paragon (for, despite some of it's PvE woes, the Ranger still retains a strong place in PvP, unlike the Paragon which has woes in both PvE and PvP). Looking forward to those Paragon changes then...hopefully it'll be before Guild Wars 2 is out proper! 82.11.226.30 17:40, 9 May 2012 (UTC)

← moved to User_talk:Borotvaltgandalf#What_about_the_ele_update_now.3F

Things you might want to consider on the para: the and duality with leadership and it's skills, avoiding the pack hunters' (R/P) return, and finally the problem of finales in multi-para teams. I also sincerely hope that you don't overpower any of these professions in the process and don't go on the direction of the mesmers (fire&forget damage and AoE to every skill).

Edit2: Another thing that might need your thought: What you have been doing (for the past three years) in updating professions for pve is giving players tools to defeat the "high end" 'content' which is basically normal content with big numbers (apparently some think it makes content interesting and exciting, while in reality the exact opposite is true) This in turn encourages John to create content with bigger numbers, and the cycle repeats itself, removing much of the originally strong and interesting tactics that made the game truly enjoyable. So are you still sure that you want to buff the ele at all? --Boro 09:03, 27 April 2012 (UTC)

You should spend less time boring the devs with walls of whiny text, Boro. :) Just put all that in the feedback sections the wiki has to offer. As an elementalist player, part 1 did a great job at making us viable in HM, but we still need the second aprt of the update. Most of our utility skills are only effective in PvP, and several styles like cross-elemental mages or double-casting (melee) mages are begging to find a stronger niche. I'm sure whatever comes will give us some more diversity. Diogo da Silva 15:28, 27 April 2012 (UTC)

It's not one wall of text, but two separate edits glued together... (edited). In fact I'm doing it in a clear and concise format. If you read it carefully it's a simple remimder about why some aspects of the para were nerfed, and why simply buffing the ele is a bad idea. I'm not against diversity however, I just want the vicious cycle of bigger numbers broken, for a good reason. --Boro 18:38, 27 April 2012 (UTC)

(Reset indent) Can we expect this before GW2's release? Diogo da Silva 22:19, 12 July 2012 (UTC)

Is that really a good idea? ...mentioning the Coders invokes the reality that mechanic changes are needed too, not just shifting numbers & XLS-Fomulae around in the database. (though if I was them... I'd give up on PvP entirely at this point and allow {PvP credit} in Gw2 to be recursive back to your Gw1 account since there won't BE enough people doing it anymore in Gw1 to keep it alive). --ilr 21:00, 15 July 2012 (UTC)

I believe mechanic changes are necessary to fix certain gameplay issues. We've already made some of these changes on our test servers. At the moment though I've got some other tasks that take higher priority than the ele update. I understand that the delay is frustrating (it's frustrating for me too) but I think these mechanic changes are shaping up to be pretty fun overall.--Robert Gee 19:01, 16 July 2012 (UTC)

So...any news? Paragons?

Been almost half a year since the last mention of it; Is a Paragon update still being worked upon (aswell as the second half of that unneccessary Ele update, I guess?). Or have literally all resources been allocated to Guild Wars 2 now instead of just 98% of them? Would have been nice to of had a Paragon update before Guild Wars 2 came out; But I'd just settle for having one at all now, even if it's after Guild Wars 2. 82.11.226.30 13:06, 12 August 2012 (UTC)

From what it seems to me, we won't get them until GW2 is out and frees up some devs to get back to GW1 (I hope). 217.129.59.88 23:49, 14 August 2012 (UTC)

Now only mesmers need to be toned down a bit

I've noticed this skill balance for the elementalist is a bit tamer than previous balances, and I do like that. But Mesmers are still too strong, and they'll still overshadow elementalist builds. Mesmers have both the advantage of fast-casting/ fast-recharging spells, and nearby-range high damaging nukes/ CC, all in one package. I think a possibility is to tone down the range (nearby -> adjacent) of some of their meta pve mesmer spells, or increase their energy costs so several of them are not taken in the same bar without consequences. Diogo da Silva 14:06, 20 September 2012 (UTC)

True that it needs to be "toned down" a bit so no overnerf. The AoE damage in PvP and some for PvE does need to be alterred in some form, mainly the 2 Wastrel hexes and in a lesser form Unnatural Signet. Well it's mainly the direct armor ignoring damage, as counter balance some other hexes could be changed to deal AoE damage in a different form, such as AoE degen for Conjure Nightmare or Recurring Insecurity. You could also make a more effective combo with Shatter Delusions and make that the source of unconditional armor ignoring damage for the mesmer while removing the AoE damage of the problem-cases. Da Mystic Reaper 14:51, 20 September 2012 (UTC)

I wonder if it'd be easier to introduce means of having +armor against chaos, dark, and holy damage which is one of the main causes of non-elementalist casters having such higher damage outputs - make sure all damage are typed, then introduce means to reduce all damage (limited to a few types, ofc, not all in one means :p). Konig/talk 03:09, 21 September 2012 (UTC)

I think those damage types should be affected by general armor. You'd still have +armor vs physical/ elemental, but at least the damage reduction would be universal to all >60 armor foes. It would also create some interesting strategies, for example, illusion mesmers would deal less damage to the foes they're supposed to keep in check, which kinda would balance them out, especially considering air blind elementalists have armor penetration. But I'm not sure the repercussions this would have. Probably a simpler thing to do, would be to nerf the damage output of several meta Mesmer spells. Slightly higher recharge for unnatural signet, slightly weaker mistrust, generald amage nerf to all anti-melee illusion spells. Diogo da Silva 15:11, 21 September 2012 (UTC)

If you change the damage of Mistrust and the anti-melee spells into armor-rated chaos damage i doubt you would need to nerf their damage, same goes for Unnatural Signet. Just changing their damage type to chaos damage and let them be armor-rated should reduce the damage the mesmer can deal by quite a bit, and indeed would be easier to do. Da Mystic Reaper 15:46, 21 September 2012 (UTC)