Talk:Signet of Spirits

Poor Skill compared to Offering of Spirit

Assuming that there's a Spirit in earshot:

Skill	Attribute	Energy gain deducting skill cost	Casttime	Recharge	if used without spirits in earshot
Offering of Spirit	Channeling Magic	3...10...12	1/4	15	-17% max health, 3...10...12 energy
Signet of Spirits	Channeling Magic	3...10...12	1	20	nothing

uhm well. i doubt anyone wants to tell me the type "signet" is that much better than the type "spell". This poor Signet needs a buff. —ZerphaThe Improver 20:13, 31 October 2007 (UTC)

Well, with signet of spirits, you still have 5 energy (as opposed to having to use 5 energy with offering of spirt). But, ya I agree, this could use a buff. -Zackattack 19:47, 23 November 2007 (UTC)

How about something like, "All spirits within earshot gain 100 life." That'd be a nice synergy. You bank on them for energy, and they bank on you to stay up, making spells like Agony and Rejuvenation more viable. --Eyekwah 11:31, 4 March 2008 (UTC)

Mantra of Inscriptions --8765 07:14, 25 March 2008 (UTC)

exactly what i thought=p 78.20.153.111 18:46, 27 March 2008 (UTC)

On second thought really, 2 skills just to make the energy management efficient? I say bleh. And, if you weren't already putting points into inspiration, it's really a waste. On top of all that, there's still a chance to get interrupted. Ultimately, many rit elites, as well as elites for all classes, need substantial improvement. --8765 21:30, 27 March 2008 (UTC)

Points in Inspiration magic would be a waste with this elite as you'd split points into two attributes for energy purposes. Better at that point to place points in Fast Casting and have a Fast channeling spiker with energy management to boot. --Eyekwah 08:24, 1 April 2008 (UTC)

Or skip Fast Casting, equip Mindbender and invest in Channeling Magic to actually serve energy management and damage. Noctarch 20:46, 3 July 2008 (UTC)

I doubt any change is comming. Since one is superior than the other, that's a tiny reason to get NightFall, for them is a superior reason not to change it.--ShadowFog 20:41, 8 September 2008 (UTC)

• Well, there *are* some advantages to the signet. I'm using a spirit spammer build without any spells (only signets and binding rituals) that's completely immune to backfire and the like (there are multiple negative effects in PvE, too, like causing exhaustion to spells) and certain common interrupts. Furthermore you'll never accidentally sac health if you're already low on it and you get energy even if an edrainer (or enviroment effects) sucked you completely empty. Still I would say OoS is superior in most situations, but SoS is not entirely worthless and has its niche. --82.83.47.211 10:42, 16 September 2008 (UTC)

ALSO, for skill capping purposes, if you don't have nf or money for a tome, this is for you heh. 76.242.83.164 04:34, 2 October 2008 (UTC) Justin6 04:37, 2 October 2008 (UTC)

@82.83, they are very simple counters to signets.Crimmastermind 08:18, 13 October 2008 (UTC)

O Rly?! If you didn't know by now, there are indeed skills to counter anything. But I have never ever seen anyone bringing one of those skills to PvP in 3 1/2 years except a few times Ignorance way back when bonders were still useful. This is because there are no pure signet builds any longer out there. If someone really brings Ignorance he will be able to shut down your OoS as well for sure.

No, no, Ignorance and friends is not a problem. Magebane Shot etc. is a much bigger problem with SoS. --82.83.57.252 11:24, 14 November 2008 (UTC)

12/11 update

so does this skill now heal spirits, or they gain 200 health like endure pain... but yet, i dont see a duration, so its a heal skill for all spirits... thats cool SabreWolf 05:58, 12 December 2008 (UTC)

Meh, 20 second recharge doesn't really make this any good. 84.84.179.39 06:34, 12 December 2008 (UTC)

Rits got three worthless skills staying worthless, and one that's only for offensive spirit spam. Yay? 66.190.15.232 06:55, 12 December 2008 (UTC)

Fixed the Related Skills, as it can no longer be associated with Offering of Spirit. --File:Gah Doomspike.jpg 17:38, 12 December 2008 (UTC)

Added Summon Spirits and Spirit Boon Strike, as those also heal spirits. --File:Gah Doomspike.jpg 17:40, 12 December 2008 (UTC)

Argh, it's annoying that it's under channeling. If you want to heal some defencive communing spirits or resto spirits that lose health quickly you have to waste points n channeling...--81.158.17.62 13:40, 14 December 2008 (UTC)

"Spirits within earshot"

Ok, now this makes me confused. By the description this means any kind of spirits, allied or enemy are healed. I haven't tested that yet, as i don't have the skill and my Ritualist isn't even half way to get to the skill and cap it. Can anyone confirm please? --Inflame 12:09, 13 December 2008 (UTC)

i have added a note about it, both spirits, allied and enemy spirits, will heal. --The preceding unsigned comment was added by User:Itay Alon (talk).

Signet of spirit totally changed??? What the Heck????

What happened to SoS?? I went to use it today for energy management, SURPRISE!, it heals spirits now. Well, the pvp version still gives energy, but then, I wasn't in pvp. I rarely pvp. Did someone make a mistake during the last update, or are we going to have to check our skills every time we play to make sure they haven't totally changed in function. What's next? Dragonslash is going to change to target other ally healing skill??

milo 66.66.200.130 18:55, 2 January 2009 (UTC)

You could read the Game updates. :) — Why 21:50, 2 January 2009 (UTC)

Hmm. Ok, i read the game updates. See Where they made the change but not Why. Makes no sense. Skill wasn't broken. What makes even less sense is that the same skill in PvP still gives energy, like the original skill, and doesn't heal spirits. This is a pretty abrupt change. Maybe it's my playing style, but I didn't see where it unbalanced PvE as an energy management skill. So I ask again, why and what is next? Is Protective Spirit going to become a smiting skill that you have to put protection points into? --The preceding unsigned comment was added by 66.66.200.130 (talk).

It wasn't over- but underpowered compared to OoS, I think Ɲoɕʈɋɽɕɧ 00:34, 3 January 2009 (UTC)

Yea, I think there were few people that made use of this skill as OoS essentially did the same with a lower recharge, activation time and an easier-to-meet condition, so they changed it to a completely different skill. Healing spirits would have been imbalanced in PvP though, so they only changed the PvE version of this skill. Also, there should be an explanation at Developer Updates. — Why 01:21, 3 January 2009 (UTC) Oh, also see the nice table at the top of this page, on why more people used OoS instead of this, before the change. — Why 01:22, 3 January 2009 (UTC)

Ahh, ok.. Read developers reasoning. I understand where they are coming from. Groups of spirits, they refer to, can be tricky though, since 2 rits with bloodsong still only results in one bloodsong spirit if the rits are too close together. I understand the thinking, though. But it still screws up my energy management. :( Thanks for answering my questions everyone. -- milo66.66.200.130

You could consider to use Offering of Spirit, if you have nightfall :) — Why 12:07, 3 January 2009 (UTC)

True, and I think I'm going to have to. grumble grumble grumble grumble. lol. I'm just glad my rit not going for survivor. I died trying to get energy back in the middle of a battle because of the skill change. Guess my fault for not thinking to read the description of a skill I've been using for months. --- milo 66.66.200.130 12:42, 3 January 2009 (UTC)

I liked this skill over Offering of Spirit in PvE beforehand, and I can't really see myself dipping in to Channeling on builds where I use spirits that benefit from this the most (Union, Displacement and Shelter which are all Communing). So I guess builds using this before will either have to make due with Offering or find something else to run. This reminds me of the Order of Undeath change though. It's a worse function than the skill was before and I'm pretty sure enough people would have used it to verify it's existence... 173.67.9.113 03:15, 4 January 2009 (UTC)

Try out Boon of Creation in that case. And if you really want to bring Displacement in PvE, Glyph of Renewal coupled with Aegis might be much better. Ɲoɕʈɋɽɕɧ 14:06, 4 January 2009 (UTC)

Because using an Elementalist elite on a Monk spell on my Ritualist PvE character is totally viable. =P Next time you try to help, be more realistic and less sarcastic? </3 Bathory 12:07, 7 January 2009 (UTC)

By being that irrealistic I wanted to show that despite the pve-only change to said signet most supportive spirits are still worse than other combinations that achieve similar or same things. Ɲoɕʈɋɽɕɧ 15:24, 7 January 2009 (UTC)

This would be way overpowered in Communing. 200 health is more than the full health of a level 8 spirit, like the one summoned by Shelter; using it once every 10 seconds is pratically the same as summoning that spirit again. Together with the (rather large) AoE, we would have a return of the ritualists that weren't allowed to use anything other than Shelter in PvE seen after the release of Factions. Placing this in Channeling allows for either good team synergy, or for players having to plan what are they going to prioritize (not to mention it has great synergy with Agony). Erasculio 13:02, 7 January 2009 (UTC)

(Reset Indent) This makes no sense in Channeling now. Channeling focuses on damage, supporting melee damage and energy gain. This is now health gain for spirits, while similar to Spirit Boon Strike, lacks the damage that skill has. This has the traits of and should be moved to Spawning Power because it would be too strong in Communing, as you said. In PvE, since the PvP version has the old function. Oh, and Noctarch, excuses don't change the fact that you're still not being helpful in any way. Bathory 13:23, 18 January 2009 (UTC)

Pointing out logic gaps and silly arguments is often more helpful than trying to join terrible theory crafting sessions.

Also, ANet stopped caring about what each attribute meant ages ago. Look at ZB. -Auron 14:35, 18 January 2009 (UTC)

That applies to monks. And if something makes them more powerful, A-Net will do it. Other classes aren't so lucky, when they changed Xinrae's Weapon and Defiant Was Xinrae they were both moved to Restoration because of the functions. Bathory 08:29, 26 January 2009 (UTC)

Heal Minions?

I am tired... so I am thinking too much... but would this also heal minions? Not that its really worth the elite slot over Fleshie... - SabreWolf 06:45, 7 February 2009 (UTC)

As it sais spirits and not summoned creatures, I highly doubt it will. — Why 02:27, 8 February 2009 (UTC)

heros

do not use this correctly, they only understand the pvp/old version 96.13.68.45 23:47, 15 February 2009 (UTC)

LOL BUFF

It might see some use now. TY Anet for finally looking @ this profession. -- euphoracle | talk 02:05, 19 June 2009 (UTC)

Bah, these suffer from the old Vampirism glitch... Takes a long time to acquire target... -- euphoracle | talk 02:50, 19 June 2009 (UTC)

I love Rit buffs. --smøni 02:51, 19 June 2009 (UTC)

I like this. Now I can be a "spirit spammer" even with Channeling Magic. Vili 点 02:56, 19 June 2009 (UTC)

Oh, and Painful Bond happens to be in the same attribute. :> Vili 点 02:56, 19 June 2009 (UTC)

YES!proves they have intrest in OGW instead allout GW2

Um...does Boon of Creation work 3 times on this? This skill with no energy cost?

Yep! Vili 点 03:04, 19 June 2009 (UTC)

So long, OoS 24.77.163.202 03:05, 19 June 2009 (UTC)

Unfortunately I don't have a ritualist, but at least my ranger is useful due to expertise....

But like I said, they have target acquisition issues it seems... :( -- euphoracle | talk 03:08, 19 June 2009 (UTC)

it's still more energy than OoS can give, with no risk of saccing 24.77.163.202 03:11, 19 June 2009 (UTC)

Yes, they definitely have the vamprism problem, otherwise this skill would be perfect for spirit spammers.--97.117.127.22 03:23, 19 June 2009 (UTC)

Hate, Suffering, and Anger

I orgasmed. I'm logging on to go hug my ritualist ASAP --The preceding unsigned comment was added by User:68.193.113.198 (talk).

It reminds me of one of Master Togo's skill on the bonus mission pack. --Ridz16 03:47, 19 June 2009 (UTC)

Which reminds me of how easy that mission must be now after the buffs... Paddymew 11:51, 19 June 2009 (UTC)

That mission is actually harder, as the enemies got skill buffs, but Togo didn't. -- Azazel the Assassin/talk 04:39, 20 June 2009 (UTC)

THEY TOOK MY IDEA! ^_^ --Falconeye 05:46, 20 June 2009 (UTC)

I hate to be a trivia whore, but aren't hate, suffering and anger the steps to the darkside? Misery 06:13, 20 June 2009 (UTC)

Yes, it's already mentioned on the Call to the Spirit Realm page. -- Gordon Ecker (talk) 06:59, 20 June 2009 (UTC)

It can't last.

This + Feast of Souls, this + Boon of Creation, this + Rupture Soul, this + Spirit's Gift, this + Explosive Growth, and so on and so on. These skills are balanced around the cost and recharge of creating spirits, but Signet of Spirits just set that cost to zero. You get three spirits free, every 10 seconds. There's no way this won't be nerfed somehow. Arshay Duskbrow 04:50, 19 June 2009 (UTC)

Then nerf those. Spirits need to be more active. This makes them more active (somewhat). Every update introduces power creep, just needs to be handled better. -- euphoracle | talk 05:01, 19 June 2009 (UTC)

Obligatory "It's PvE" reply. 66.190.15.232 05:04, 19 June 2009 (UTC)

^ agreed it is just pve, but this skill is outrageous with the aforementioned skills. no those dont need nerf, they have always been balanced. but it is pretty funny using this skill on a rit with boon, spirits gift and explosive growth. massive aoe heal, condition removal, energy gain, lightning damage, etc every 10 sec..and nearly full heal on your whole party every 10 sec or so. you can probably solo guild wars pve with a rit now, im happy i have one lol --Celtus 05:08, 19 June 2009 (UTC)

Exactly. I'm not saying I dislike it, just that it will never last. :P All at once, it's unlimited energy for you + unlimited party health + party condition removal + tons of incidental damage + unlimited powerful nukes + AoE blind. That's not even counting the damage output of the spirits themselves. I predict the recharge of this will be raised to 30 at least. Arshay Duskbrow 05:10, 19 June 2009 (UTC)

Oh come on... think about animate bone minions, its realy strong with those skills a bit harder to use BUT NON ELITE Kren3 07:02, 19 June 2009 (UTC)

I agree...except that Bone Minions actually cost you something, so using Boon with them simply negates that cost, rather than giving you a free Offering of spirit every ten seconds or so. Love the new skill, but I'm pretty sure it'll be whined out by non-Rit users who probably have a valid point. I'll enjoy it while it lasts, though. Erring Ryft 07:14, 19 June 2009 (UTC)

Only way I can see this balanced at all is if the recharge is upped to 2 minutes.71.7.134.208 11:20, 19 June 2009 (UTC)

2 minutes would be a bit much(it is PvE), even at the intended 20 seconds those other skills don't really do ridiculous things(Spirits gift will heal nearby allies 150 health and 3 conditions removed, but that's every 20 seconds which isn't fast enough to be OP and you're taking up a skill slot). The damage skills would require the ritualist to be in the front lines or wait until the enemies are nearby to do the damage. A 30 second recharge would probably be for the best to prevent Boon of Creation from giving ritualists obscene amounts of energy and 3 stronger spritis of pain at the same time.(marsc 11:38, 19 June 2009 (UTC))

This on four rits + 18 spirits/ritualist... Don't nerf it, please, let ritualists have this one moment of glory! Paddymew 12:00, 19 June 2009 (UTC)

It should be nerfed, but not drastically. Just increase recharge and casting time to how regular spirits were before the update - have 30-60 second recharge even, and a 2-3 second casting. Problem then should be fixed. Or at least it wouldn't be too far out of balance. -- Azazel the Assassin/talk 12:08, 19 June 2009 (UTC)

"except that Bone Minions actually cost you something". Lol?~>Sins WDB 15:57, 19 June 2009 (UTC)

As to the nerfing. It was supposed to be released with a 20 second recharge. That makes sense though 25-30 would be more reasonable. As long as its not more than 30 I think this can be used fairly regularly. The skill concept of boom spirit wall isn't a problem for PvE though.~>Sins WDB 16:01, 19 June 2009 (UTC)

Not to mention, you can only have 1 copy of each spirit within spirit(?aggro?) range, so running a bunch of rits with this same skill wouldn't accomplish anything. ··· cedave 16:42, 19 June 2009 (UTC)

@Mira...Ritualists don't have Soul Reaping, so yes, Bone Minions do cost something....which is negated by Boon, keeping them from being free energy like this skill is...don't post when you're sleepy, silly. Erring Ryft 16:54, 19 June 2009 (UTC)

Remember, those skills mentioned above used to utterly suck, they weren't balanced at all compared to skills from other attributes because spirits used to suck. Remember, spawning is(or was) the weakest attribute line. Now they're competative. Thing is you'll have to devote quite a few skill slots to really get the full benefit of SoS, at least 3, and compared to HB+HP+GoLE monks it's not that much, most broken thing about SoS+BoC+SG is it also removes conditions. I could see bumping it up to 20 res recharge, maybe a 2 sec cast, but anything more then that is just taking away the new edge rits just got.66.69.109.183 17:14, 19 June 2009 (UTC)

I don't see how 3 second casting time is out of the question - thrice the spirits thrice the casting time. Nor do I see why 45 second recharge is out of the question - most of the "more powerful" non-elites are 45 second recharge, and with 60 second lasting, you can still maintain them - though 30 seconds would be more reasonable to keep Ritualists on par with Monks. -- Azazel the Assassin/talk 04:39, 20 June 2009 (UTC)

I find it amusing people are screaming for it to be nerfed when it's PvE which is already over run with speed clears and shadow form. This actually makes Ritualists a really good choice to take as a heealer now and will help them get a place in parties instead of gathering dust. Selket Shadowdancer 13:32, 20 June 2009 (UTC)

Nerfed to 20 second recharge in PvE, GG QQ'ers. 86.1.180.54 01:12, 25 June 2009 (UTC)

That was actually not a nerf. It was intended for the skill to have 20 second recharge. Even if NO ONE said ANYTHING, that change would have happened because it was supposed to happen. So, as you would say: GG QQ'ing IP. -- Azazel the Assassin/talk 02:06, 25 June 2009 (UTC)

Animation

Needs a new one. syn // talk 05:44, 19 June 2009 (UTC)

lolololololollllooollll

I was thinking, if someone casts SoS and then someone else in the pt casts it, would the spirits from first SoS be destroyed? Can't test myself, gw takes ages to patch and install. --Super Igor flame my shove sin bar! 12:15, 19 June 2009 (UTC)

They do get destroyed(I've tested it), it's like that for all spirits of the same name to prevent quickly massing great numbers of them, unless the spirits are created out of range of the first set.(marsc 12:29, 19 June 2009 (UTC))

Kay then, so hoped that this skill would get a different mechanic (or be bugged), lol, fine then ty. :p --Super Igor flame my shove sin bar! 12:33, 19 June 2009 (UTC)

It is bugged, just not in the way you'd like~>Sins WDB 15:54, 19 June 2009 (UTC)

It doesn't really matter what the spirits actually can do, creating 3 spirits almost instantly and with 10 second recharge is just screaming to be abused with those skills which trigger on creation. Mediggo 16:03, 19 June 2009 (UTC)

You seem to be forgetting that this is an elite skill. The recharge needs to be fixed, but creating three spirits isn't so much a problem as it is a long-needed balance for the ritualist class. ··· cedave 16:43, 19 June 2009 (UTC)

anything that benefits from creation isn't going to be broken with creating three spirits, anyways. at most you're doing moderate lightning damage or gaining a moderate amount of energy. This is pve, anyways. -- Mafaraxas 18:48, 19 June 2009 (UTC)

Rits have always been one of the higest damage and most versatile and effective classes. What balance did they need? Spirit Spam has always been great, it is just that when spirits took time to cast and effort to focus people looked past them. This skill is retarded now. Spirit Spammers are ridiculous now. --The preceding unsigned comment was added by 72.192.32.123 (talk).

Use Signet of Spirit with Feast for Souls and /dancenew CE bug for extra healing

http://pvx.wikia.com/wiki/Special:PvXDecode?title=Special:PvXDecode&wpBuild=OACiIykMVNR90M5MdNVO5DSDCA BUG: The two dancing spirits count as spirits for "Feast for Souls". So you do not get only 3x93 partywide healing every 10 seconds, you even get 5x93 (465) healing for every party member. ISSUE: It is as broken as it can get, isn't it? Protective was Kaolei was nerfed for less healing every 30 seconds.

This is just CE bug although its very abusable xD. SoS might get a nerf soon because its a bit OP bat because its PvE only u can never know... --Requiem 20:00, 19 June 2009 (UTC)

No. FoS should get the nerf because if SoS does get nerfed there are still the countless other 3/4 of a second binding rituals ready to abuse this heal. I pray FoS will get nerfed and not SoS!--81.151.115.162 23:17, 19 June 2009 (UTC)

SoS is the problem here because of the so short recharge, no energy cost, and 3 at once. Using FoS on 1 spirit (or the two CE spirits) is not much of a problem I think. -- Azazel the Assassin/talk 04:34, 20 June 2009 (UTC)

SoS is still an elite, you have to recast it every so often, and it's only in PvE. Paddymew 12:25, 20 June 2009 (UTC)

Elite gives it no energy and three spirits - having the rest like regular skills is plenty. And why bother mentioning "it's only in PvE", you want PvE to be unbalanced? I like this skill and am liking the changes a lot, but we all know SoS will get a nerf, and I'd rather put up reasonable suggestions to make it balanced instead of not doing so and it getting killed or still more powerful than other Ritualist elites. -- Azazel the Assassin/talk 13:34, 20 June 2009 (UTC)

Attack bug?

it seems to me that they dont attack like normal groups of spirits do, but wait and attack one after another

Yeah, they don't seem to like targetting the same target. In a group they're always attacking, as far as I've seen, but get down to 1 or 2 targets and several will start to idle. Hopefully they correct the bug. ~~000.00.00.00~~ 03:38, 21 June 2009 (UTC)

Myself and a few other users at PvX have seem to encountered cases where the Spirits generated by this skill will actually follow calls (albeit, it's hard to gauge with the idling). ··· cedave 19:39, 25 June 2009 (UTC)

I have not encountered this bug, I've seen them all attack at once to spike targets... As above I've seen some spirits follow calls even when I'm not attackign the called target... and I've seen spirits switch targets to attack my target when not called... as for sitting idle they only do that if their target dies and I'm not causing any agro, the same as any hero or henchie would do... MrPaladin talk 15:03, 24 July 2009 (UTC)

Rename this skill " Signet of Who The Heck Knows What It Will Do This Week"

This skill was changed again?!! When I first capped this skill, it was PvE and PvP energy management. Then it was changed to PvP = E management ang PvE = spirit healing. Now its PvP = E management and PvE = create multiple spirits at once, like rit version or necro's Lich Lord. When will it stop. Everytime I tinker my build, with this skill in it, back into usability, Anet changes it completely. If you can't decide what it should do, then get rid of it. Sheeesh.

11:17, 28 June 2009 (UTC) milo

it's still pve energy management, if u have boon of creation + sig of inscription for 12 energy every 13 sec 76.238.23.176 17:41, 28 June 2009 (UTC)

You're acting as if fixing a build takes weeks of effort. Mountains out of molehills. Anet is just trying to bring a larger number of skills into viability for PvE (which is what many people have been asking for for a long time) -- Mafaraxas 21:24, 28 June 2009 (UTC)

This skill is making me want to play my storaged ritu instead of my storage derv. it seems like a real fun skill for pve. 119.94.240.8 08:20, 1 July 2009 (UTC)

It's only practical use at the moment is energy for Spirit Siphon. ··· danny 17:01, 1 July 2009 (UTC)

Not to mention excellent synergy with Boon of Creation, Explosive Growth, Spirit's Gift, and Feast of Souls to create a very powerful combination. 75.152.174.43 02:43, 2 July 2009 (UTC)

That's 5 skills to provide moderate damage and huge amounts of wasted healing. ups. ··· Danny Pew Pew 16:04, 2 July 2009 (UTC)

If all the spirits are created at the same location, how do you know which one spirit siphon will target? 82.13.41.163 19:31, 4 July 2009 (UTC)

Just walk around to the other side of the group and cast it - then you know another spirit will be chosen. 89.240.161.243 21:38, 4 July 2009 (UTC)

I'm not complaining about the change. Just that it keeps changing so often. No, it doesn't take weeks to change a build, but I don't have the chance to play that often, so its a pain to have to tinker with set builds. But, heck, i'm loving this new change, hope they keep it. Human groups never seem to want to wait for the casting of 5 spirits at 3 to 5 seconds each. And if you didn't pre-cast, the fight would usually be over by the time all 5 spirits were up. Now, with this skill's new incarnation and the shortened cast times on binding rituals, just add painful bond and summon spirits (luxon/kurzick) and you have a mobile army, just like a necro mm, that doesn't delay the other players.

66.66.200.130 10:56, 5 July 2009 (UTC) milo

Agree, not to mention that you're no longer stuck with picking 25 energy spirits that does nothing but sit there and die in 6 secs because there's not enough useful offensive spirits. - 87.96.225.146 09:20, 12 July 2009 (UTC)

Yoda Quote

“Fear is the path to the dark side. Fear leads to anger. Anger leads to hate. Hate leads to suffering.” <-- The full quote. I say leave it off as it is highly unlikely this is true and ask for Linsey to get look into it. DrogoBoffin 00:10, 13 July 2009 (UTC)

It's already on the Call to the Spirit Realm page. Leave the note, unless you think there's a better reason why they are named Anger, Hate, and Suffering. <>Sparky, the Tainted 00:24, 13 July 2009 (UTC)

If they are indeed named after the quote why isnt there a spirit of Fear? DrogoBoffin 00:30, 13 July 2009 (UTC)

Because summoning four spirits would be a little too imba? ~Ryuu[ Talk|Contributions ] 00:39, 13 July 2009 (UTC)

And three isnt? DrogoBoffin 00:40, 13 July 2009 (UTC)

Borderline imba for PvE, four would be over the edge. <>Sparky, the Tainted 00:41, 13 July 2009 (UTC)

Also, I'd like to highlight the word too, perhaps you missed it. It suggests that it's probably already imba, but adding a fourth would make it just over the edge imba (Like Sparky said. ;3) ~Ryuu[ Talk|Contributions ] 00:44, 13 July 2009 (UTC)

not really imba for pve at all. -- Mafaraxas 03:10, 13 July 2009 (UTC)

Anet decided they didn't want a Fear spirit for some reason that none of us should really give a fuck about, to be completely honest. Are your lives really so dull that debating whether or not an obvious reference to a quote is obvious enough? Troll more, Drogo. ··· Danny Pew Pew 16:32, 13 July 2009 (UTC)

didn't I see this confirmed and was being moved to lore archives... I cant remember who's talk page it was on tho MrPaladin talk 17:00, 31 July 2009 (UTC)

Linsey said that this is most likely the correct reference. Rose Of Kali 23:20, 6 August 2009 (UTC)

There is NO need to add a spirit of fear, for there is plenty of fear already in the game. (Almost) already confirmed by Linsey, the trivia stays. Most of the trivia exists with an objective 'most probably' or an 'almost sure', it is when something is obviously subjective when it is to be removed from the trivia, like when someone thinks that a model looks like the model of another creature (in this or another game) with no other relation between them. MithTalk 00:43, 7 August 2009 (UTC)

Still Bugged!!!

Ugh will they ever fix this skill... and im surprised they didn't nerf it yet >.> 174.99.98.226

How is it bugged? Currently, all three spirits seem to spam Pain as long as there's a valid, aggroed target within range. -- Gordon Ecker (talk) 09:17, 9 August 2009 (UTC)

Animation

The animation project needs to update the animation as the skill changed the animation changed and needs to be changed (lol i kinda sounded like Obama in his speeches) - Giant Nuker 22:40, 11 August 2009 (UTC)

Why Can't 2 Rits Runn it?

So My Husband and I both have a ritualist and we we're PVEing together we noticed that when one Rit casts this elite and then no matter how far away the other Rit is, they cast it then the first 3 spirts die. This is ridiculous, why can't we both benefit from running this skill? Wynterarwynrose 07:58, 21 August 2009 (UTC)

Might I suggest you both bring arcane mimimcry, and while one of you run a SoS channeling bar, the other bring a commnuning bar with [Signet of Ghostly Might]? In general, while you'll never cast the same spirit at the same time, buffs for spirits already present are amazing, but usually not viable. If you have someone to work with, you essentially have the bar space to manage both a bunch of spirits and some powerful buffs. --71.244.103.38 23:41, 2 February 2011 (UTC)

That's how it originally worked, they changed it in the August 25th, 2005 update due to some really abusive PvP spirit spam builds. -- Gordon Ecker (talk) 11:09, 21 August 2009 (UTC)

Uh...August 2005? lolz.... - 69.248.175.25 07:40, 27 August 2009 (UTC)

I remember that nerf. Rangers were stacking spirits to the point that arows were one-shotting people. But honestly, having this skill in your bar is abuse.

Don't you think this is already ridiculous enough? To have 2 rits using this would only make it worse. This is so unbelivably bad and poorly thought out. Everyone you see wants to be a spirit spammer now. What does A-net have against thought? What does A-net have against people playing thier own class? Why does A-net constanly do things this stupid to PvE players? Why are they so hateful to thier own community? Do they even want people to buy GW2? Are they trying to make the game more appealing to the 4 year old and under crowd? This is absolutely absurd. This is as bad as Ursan. Good God A-net, why don't you just put in GODMODE so no one has to worry about stuff like skills on thier bar? Better yet how about a backslash command that auto-completes your current mission and all quests in your log so everyone can have thier titles without that pesky act of actually having to play the game getting in the way. There was a time when I loved A-net and even when they did things that I didn't agree with I was the first one to say they are doing thier best and that people should trust them. At this point I think they are about the worst organization out there. How the hell are they going to manage a persistent world in GW2 when they fail so utterly with an instanced one? This skill is a sad , sad , sad token of the evolution of the game. It was supposedto be a game about co-opertive play and skill, now it is about nothing. Maybe a little bit about grind but any shred of soul that this game had is so far gone now........ Just sad. --The preceding unsigned comment was added by User:72.192.32.123 (talk).

QQ moar pls Pika Fan 00:27, 21 September 2009 (UTC)

What a constructive thing to say Pika Fan. Not worth arguing with someone like you. See ya.

Really, I could so easily imagine the above ranter crying as s/he typed that out. Well, if you're going to bash SoS, you might as well bash PI, Asuran Scan, "Finish Him!", etc. (Notice I'm only throwing out pve-only skills? They're all in league, believe it or not). You make it sound like other professions have it harder (One does, slightly). PvE is grinding grounds, and from the looks of things, Anet doesnt care much for grinding. And Ive yet to see any great farming builds make use of SoS+Spawning enchants, so no sympathy for you still. Besides, this game is old now. If things were how they were in prophecies (as in lack of power creep, I'd have been gone a long time ago.

power creep m8. ··· Danny Pew Pew 18:30, 21 September 2009 (UTC

Fast Casting

I noticed on the Anguished was Lingwah page, it says that that particular skill benefits from Fast Casting (and Signet of Illusions), due to it not being a binding ritual. Should the FC part be added to this page too, just to point that out as well? I was hesitant to simply add it since it seems a minor point, but on the other hand, it is on the other page...Moonstruck Muse 14:09, 13 October 2009 (UTC)

It shouldn't even be mentioned on Anguished Was Lingwah that it "benefits from Fast Casting and Signet of Illusions" or else all the Item spell skill pages would need to mention it also for consistency. And it is unnecessary to mention that Fast Casting affects Signet of Spirits, because it is a signet and the Fast Casting description states: "Additionally, each rank in this attribute decreases your Signet activation times by 3%" --Silver Edge 04:12, 14 October 2009 (UTC)

dang it they nerfed it

Used to be best skill in the game Ramei Arashi 03:10, 26 February 2010 (UTC)

Compared to the rest of nerfs in this package, it's only a minor nerf. This skill still rocks and this change is not sending it off my skillbar. --Manassas 11:13, 26 February 2010 (UTC)

I would have been more pissed if they reworked it again. The nerf just makes it take a few seconds longer for me to take something down, it still works well for me for SS farming and stuff. 85.19.140.9 13:37, 26 February 2010 (UTC)

yea the nerf wasnt too bad for this one, its still a pretty amazing skillAurenX 15:35, 26 February 2010 (UTC)

can't use it as a self heal anymore and the spikes a smaller its very noticeable

it's a nice change. before the update, rits would come in the thousands with SoS builds, and not capable of doing much else. the elite-ness of this skill comes from the fact it summons THREE spirits - the uber firepower shouldn't be a requisite as well. 90.208.113.56 12:29, 27 February 2010 (UTC)

yea seriously have 3 spirits for no cost is still pretty amazing, so what if u cant heal for 100 somin every few seconds thats what healing spells are for.AurenX 00:43, 28 February 2010 (UTC)

Agreed. Especially considering the fact that the 3 spirits can body block large opening points all by themselves, take the heat for a while, and then be re-cast again seconds later. Resilient skill is resilient, even towards nerfs. Anon ~ --The preceding unsigned comment was added by 68.40.208.238 (talk). 10:57, 28 February 2010 (UTC)

I hate the nerf alot, but it was a fair nerf. No other elite on it's own (to my knowledge) deals anywhere near what this could (and still probably so) in DPS unconditionally and for NO energy. On the bright side, painful bond is not effected by reduced spirit damage and you can even use anguished was [whatever] for instant recharge of painful bond.K2K 09:48, 20 March 2010 (UTC)

And they nerfed it again. WTH are they doing? The damage done has been reduced. Ramei Arashi 23:47, 5 January 2012 (UTC)

Once again, very minor nerf. -- Armond Warblade 00:11, 6 January 2012 (UTC)

Not quite so minor. Deals less damage to enemies with now even higher health (in HM). It would have been a "very minor nerf," if they had left it alone.Wrend 02:37, 6 January 2012 (UTC)

You can't count the "now with higher health" as a nerf... that's not a function of the change to the skill, but a function of buffing the monsters' healths. 71.146.74.128 12:03, 8 January 2012 (UTC)

Single Worst Skill In Game

This ridiculous skill makes everything so unbelievably and retardedly easy that its no fun for anyone involved. Its especially sad because the Z-missions were meant to be a place where the last few players could get together for some fun, and instead every team has an SoS rit, or SoS ranger, or SoS Ele, or SoS X Class, and everything is simple rape. Melee characters can't hitt things enuff times to use adrenaline based skills and spell casters are lucky to get a spell or too off before everything is dead. This is a perfect example of how A-net fails legit players who want to enjoy the game and favors the noobie-entitlement crowd who have no interest in playing the game or supporting the community. Total BS. This is the community that is moving to GW2....... I will be gald to see GW end, A-net has already killed it.... but GW2 should really consider lowering the minimum age to 4 and adding muppets so that it will appeal to the playerbase they have custom tailored. In event, I certainly won't be here. 75.142.136.4 19:50, 17 April 2010 (UTC)

Well then quit. -- Cyan 20:10, 17 April 2010 (UTC)

Your flaming serves absolutely no purpose in the mainspace :P - J.P.Talk 20:12, 17 April 2010 (UTC)

I agree with Cyan and J.P., also nobody is forced to use SoS. - Giant Nuker 12:06, 18 April 2010 (UTC)

Saying it is not forced is not accurate. If a persons goal is to enjoy the game thru teamplay SoS rits can absolutely ruin that. When there is an SoS rit exploiting this absurd skill in the party no one else really gets to play, especially in Normal Mode. Due to the poor community management, lack of developer forsight and all around bad policies the game doesn't really have that much in the way of teamplay as it is. I don't care that the majority require training wheels like SoS to do things, and I don't care that the majority prefer to have lame OP garbage like this in place of actualy gameplay..... I want to play too. This skill is the absolute worst thing to happen to this game, it is worse than Ursan. Shame on those who require it and shame on A-net for going this route. 75.142.136.4 06:11, 20 April 2010 (UTC)

Nothing is forced for casual playing. Pretty sure you are just taking maybe a single experience you had (or just making it up) where you or someone was forced to play SoS. And to your next topic, there are plenty of cool things people can team build around an SoS player. I think you just have a lack of skill knowledge. How does one persons build ruin the game play of others just because it is a good build? Sure, there is a bit of content an SoS can solo through being careful and taking their time, but having 7 other players with you will be very impactful, otherwise this "abuse" of using SoS would not even need them or gain any benefit from them. If you feel you were not making an impact with your team that had an SoS then maybe you either do not understand the gameplay or just simply were using an awful build. Yes, content should not be easy to complete with garbage builds, and just because someone else is using a good one does not pose any issues to anything except maybe your mood of not being able to make an OP build using hamstorm. Nobody requires SoS and the majority of your reply sounds like exactly what I said, you being upset you do not know how to make builds. So do not trash talk other players for playing how they want and try to FORCE whatever poor playing you are doing on them. You are ignorant and hypocritical. Shade the (talk) 21:10, 6 February 2020 (UTC)

Dude, you’re replying to someone a decade ago... — snograt 22:14, 6 February 2020 (UTC)

I agree with the fact that this does ruin some gameplay. The fact that this can overshadow other ritualist builds that can utilize more efficient spirits. But to say it's ruining all gameplay is foolish. SoS doesn't simply attack everything at once and obliterate it at one time. Attack what it doesn't. If you're attacking what the spirits are, of course you can't get your skills/spells off. Don't go about flaming a skill out of frustration. Look at it logically. There's always SOME way to work around the bad points of skills. --Kenny7220 05:29, 12 May 2010 (UTC)

This skill seriously needs a nerf. It does an insane amount of damage, costs nothing, and provides a ridiculous energy return with spirit siphon. It is pretty sad when it is the only elite used by rits. In my opinion, make only two spirits appear rather than 3.

The skill is fine, the spirits die quickly when they begin to get hit, and the "insane amount of damage" is quickly overshadowed by, well, any armor ignoring damage. It does provide damage and some mitigation. And my teams frequently have multiple ritualists that use different elites, most notably preservation or xirane's weapon. Sonic Saturday 03:31, 10 July 2010 (UTC)

I'd have to disagree. This skill completely outclasses any other offensive elite available to ritualists. You mention preservation and xinrai's weapon, but those two are healing skills intended for the primary healer of a group. Of course a healer would be better off running one of the resto elites but most ritualists that i see dont even run restoration builds anymore because of the raw offensive power that Anet's powercreep has led to. Signet of Spirits is THE ritualist elite that nearly every ritualist in the game uses because of its high, armor ignoring damage, its free cost, and its ability to easily keep the ritualist's energy full with either boon of creation or spirit siphon. With spawning power, the spirits arnt all that fragile either, so its not like they die all that quickly. Plus, with summon spirits and armor of the unfeeling, the spirits arnt going to die easily. I'll admit that the problem is not solely Signet of Spirit's, and that both spirit siphon and summon spirits need slight nerfs as well, but in its current state, SoS is too powerful and easily abuseable. Lanier 22:13, 13 July 2010 (UTC)

Definitely my first choice hero elite. My second favourite hero elite is a Wanderlust combo with Spiritleech Aura + Earthbind. Personally I run Xinrae's Weapon or Soul Twisting, and my final hero will either be a Sig of Ghostly Might communing ranger or some kind of necro like a minion master. 4 guys with a pocket legion and paid up memberships to the Grenth fanclub (Grenth is definitely the Chuck Norris of PvE imo!). There's a rare juxtaposition between SoS and other elites however, which is that you can only effectively run 1 copy in the party, unlike Assassin's Promise EVAS, Discord etc. So yeah, SoS is powerful, but there can be only one. Also, I just got to use the word "juxtaposition" in a sentence. Huzzah! Cirian 18:52, 28 July 2010 (UTC)

Makes soloing easy for anyone

This skill rocks! It makes solo quests and soloing in general (farming) very easy for any Rt/* and */Rt. For example, quests Mano a Norn-o, Bear Club for Women/Bear Club for Men and Round 1: Fight! are easy to beat with this skill, and a few other skills. However, I think it's unfair that this skill beats almost any other Ritualist elites, but I don't complain as long as I can "abuse" it legally on my Monk. :) --Teisei 「ページ」 「会話」 17:44, 14 September 2010 (UTC)

Cannot cast at zero energy??? Bug?

I was using SoS on my Ele and had zero energy. When I tried to cast SoS, I got the not enough energy message. Once I regen'd one energy, I was able to cast it. Being a Signet, I didn't think this skill cost anything so even if one has zero energy, it should still cast, right? Beregond 02:33, 26 September 2010 (UTC)

Just tried it, I could cast it at 0 energy. Maybe you were near a spirit of Primal Echoes, which just happened to be killed when you reached one energy? 24.197.253.243 02:58, 26 September 2010 (UTC)

That is, indeed, odd. Put it on GWW:RFR? — Raine Valen 3:06, 26 Sep 2010 (UTC)

I think you nailed it. I was in the Maguuma Jungle with a lot of Redwood Shepherd mobs around. They were probably using Primal Echoes (don't have a screen shot unfortunately). Thanks!! Beregond 02:45, 27 September 2010 (UTC)

This on a Me/Rt with Mantra of Inscriptions or Symbolic Posture...

You could use this on a Me/Rt with a mesmer's signet recharge time reducing skills + Feast of Souls and have a constant stream of 300-ish party wide healing every 15 seconds or so. Throw in a couple other Restoration magic skills and maybe Life and you have a great gimmick healer... → uτσpıαи ♪ 01:34, 17 November 2011 (UTC)

Primary mesmers have better things to do, like killing everything. Leave defense to the eles, rits, monks, etc, who can't kill things as ridiculously easily. -- Armond Warblade 01:53, 17 November 2011 (UTC)

I don't think anyone else can heal that efficiently either, though. → uτσpıαи ♪ 01:57, 17 November 2011 (UTC)

ER infuse spam. 98.207.35.105 02:20, 17 November 2011 (UTC)

Or ER prots. Healing is fairly inefficient, and mesmers are really really good at killing things. Basically, your time to live is increased more by the damage they do. -- Armond Warblade 02:26, 17 November 2011 (UTC)

Jan 2012 nerf

Was this really so OP that this needed a nerf this bad...? .___. 91.154.218.17 10:15, 6 January 2012 (UTC)

To be honest, I would agree with the nerf. Look on the bright side, it wasn't nerfed too badly, they've only reduced the dps to balance it with other damage dealers in PvE. Random Weird Guy 10:48, 6 January 2012 (UTC)

Oh come on... its seconds time now!!! --46.109.81.201 11:12, 6 January 2012 (UTC)

To answer 91.154.218.17, yes, it was insanely over powered. dunno if it's possible now, but before the nerf it was possible to conquer FoW solo (no heroes)in NM, as long as you had some patience, time and good tactics. not to mention it's possibly the only elite used by most Ritualists while pve'ing (as well as secondary ritualists love for this elite) 77.213.235.141 11:36, 6 January 2012 (UTC)

An SoS rit could do about 200+ armor ignoring DPS to a single target (not so good for many targets, but some human players can't even do 30dps ;) ). As for rit elites for PvE: a Soul Twist rit protector can be very useful in HM (especially when "everyone" gets aggro) 60.50.250.94 14:20, 6 January 2012 (UTC)

God forbid people actually learn how to play rit rather than just spirit spam.--Gerroh 19:35, 6 January 2012 (UTC)

This is still an outrageously powerful skill. You're getting 3 spirits for the grand cost of absolutely nothing. [ Tyloric ] [ Talk ] 23:56, 6 January 2012 (UTC)

No you're getting 3 spirits at the cost of an alternative skill. What's really annoying is that this latest change has been dressed up as a buff to ele's. They are too weak so rits need to be nerfed? really? --The preceding unsigned comment was added by 82.11.73.6 (talk) at 13:25, 7 January 2012 (UTC).

SoS builds were still pretty OP, it was a huge chunk of unconditional, constantly high and armor-ignoring dps. Not to mention the body-blocking factor. Random Weird Guy 15:03, 7 January 2012 (UTC)

I'm not going to complain about the nerf, let's all agree we knew it was coming.. My only question is.. How does nerfing a rit skill make ele's more viable in pve? Drkvamp

Must every single update in a patch relate to the main objective of the patch? "Fixed a bug that allowed 14-member parties in certain PvE areas." - That doesn't exactly help elementalists directly either, but it was a much needed update. Random Weird Guy 17:18, 7 January 2012 (UTC)

I'd hardly consider the update a nerf. If anything it was a tweak. And I'd like to see these so-proclaimed "pro" rituaist builds that don't utilize SoS, SoGM or ST. 68.160.191.49 10:32, 8 January 2012 (UTC)

Build:Rt/any SC Weapon Rit, Build:Rt/A AB Support Rit, Build:Rt/E Shackles Runner, Build:Rt/Me Glaive Bomber to name a few. Random Weird Guy 10:38, 8 January 2012 (UTC)

The first 3 are PvP, and the 4th was also nerfed. -- Hong 11:43, 8 January 2012 (UTC)

IP didn't ask for builds specific to PvE. Also, many elites only make sense in either PvE or PvE, e.g. it isn't realistic to use Assassin's Promise in PvP (with the very slight possibility of CM), whereas Wastrel's Collapse isn't really that useful in PvE. Random Weird Guy 13:43, 8 January 2012 (UTC)

Doesn't take away the fact that dd elementalists are still going to be taken in parties anytime, anywhere, over any ritualist with a dd build. Can anyone describe the task of a ritualist, cause I've definitely lost that one. (Yes, I've played a lot of SoS, SoGM, RL and ST. Yes, I've used many other unregistered random builds just to have fun and make fun of the ele.) But anyway, I'm just a beginner in ranting at which class is better for which purpose. 77.164.17.245 16:51, 8 January 2012 (UTC)

Context, please. SoS in PvP is completely different to SoS in PvE, and PvP-SoS wasn't touched at all by this update. -- Hong 16:53, 8 January 2012 (UTC)

The context is that SC and shackles are the same in PvE and PvP, but are elites that are generally only used in PvP. Many Ritualist skills utilise Spirits and Item spells, whether it buffs the actual rituals/bundles or becomes more powerful with the use of spirits/bundles. I've always seen the Ritualist play-style as revolving around making powerful combinations between rituals/bundles and skills that interact with them (e.g. DwG + Channeled Strike), much like how the different parts of an assassin dagger-chain interact with each other. The OP'ness of SoS meant that people no longer engaged their brain in using Ritualist builds and just spammed spirits and watched stuff die. Random Weird Guy 17:17, 8 January 2012 (UTC)